Keep sharing good news without ads.
No description available
Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe.
It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.
And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.
Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this fifth day of April 2024.
I'm sure that most of you can detect immediately that there's a change in my voice today. Yesterday, I began to develop a sore throat, and now it has turned into a full-blown cold or case of the flu, or perhaps COVID, I'm not sure what it is.
But I did not want to postpone my interview today because I enjoy interviewing today's guests so much and wanted to make sure we stuck with our previously scheduled interview for today. And I'll tell you about him and our topic in a minute.
But I do have a combination praise report and prayer request. I am offering congratulations to Josh and Mercy Allen, the son-in-law and daughter of my very dear friends, Pastor Joe and Becky Moorcraft of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia.
If you listen to this program regularly, you have no doubt heard Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III on this program frequently. And his church, Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, is a very generous financial supporter of this program.
In fact, they're one of the largest financial supporters of the show, even though their congregation is very small. But the congratulations is due to Josh and Mercy Allen because Mercy just gave birth today to their precious daughter, Rebecca Hope.
And while I am thrilled and excited and offering this as a praise report, the prayer request is for little Mercy's heart. Mercy was, I'm sorry, little Rebecca Hope's heart. Little Rebecca Hope was born at just slightly over three pounds, and she has a heart condition that apparently is dangerous.
The parents knew about this before the birth. In fact, they were quite concerned that Rebecca Hope would not be born alive, but praise be to our sovereign king and great physician, the baby has been born alive.
And they see very encouraging news in many ways, encouraging signs because the baby is crying loudly, and that's a sign that the lungs are functioning properly. It is the heart condition that they are concerned about.
So please pray for little Rebecca Hope, born today, of Josh and Mercy Allen, the son-in-law and daughter of my dear friends Pastor Joe and Becky Moorcraft in Cumming, Georgia. So today we have the honor and privilege of having back on the program after a long absence, far too long as far as I'm concerned, Angus Stewart is on the program today.
He's the pastor of Covenant Reform, Protestant Reform Church in Ballymena, Northern Ireland. And today he is going to be addressing the Abomination of Desolation, One Amillennialist's view. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Angus Stewart.
It's lovely to be back again with you, Chris.
And please describe for our listeners who have not heard you on this program in the past, describe for us the Covenant Protestant Reform Church in Ballymena, Northern Ireland.
The CPRC is a lively reformed church based on the Word of God. Our three 16th, 17th century confessions are the Belgic Confession of 1561, the Heidelberg Catechism of 1563, and the Canons of Dort, the original five points of Calvinism.
Our congregation is doing well by God's grace. One of our elders is currently in hospital and I hope he's well enough to join us tonight. Brian Crossett, he's been in with diverticulitis and he's been diagnosed with COPD.
So I hope that he listens and that this cheers him up as well as edifies your listeners.
Amen. And if I'm not remembering incorrectly, I believe your website has the three forms of unity that you just mentioned in many languages. Am I correct in that?
It does. Our website probably has the most editions of the three forms of unity in different languages, possibly in any website in the world. My wife puts them online, my wife, Mary, and we've got coming up on 4 ,000 different translations of our pieces in written, audio, and video form on there, so we hope that is a blessing to people.
Well, if anybody wants more details about Covenant Protestant Reformed Church in Ballymena, Northern Ireland, go to cprc .co .uk, cprc .co .uk, and God willing, we'll be reminding you of that website later on in the program.
Well, I think it would probably be wise to read the New Testament text from where we get the abomination of desolation. We read in Matthew chapter 24, verses 15 through 16, when you see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, let the reader understand, then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
If you could help us understand this text according to how you view it through your exegesis and your study of scriptures and comparative study and taking the whole counsel of God into consideration, what is it that is contained in the book of Daniel that Matthew saw fit to repeat here?
Thanks, Chris, for that superb introduction. You've gone right to the heart of it. Matthew 24, verse 15, the text which you read, is the first use of the actual phrase as we have it in English, the abomination of desolation.
Jesus used that terminology. It's recorded also very, very similarly in Mark 13, verse 14. And then in this very word where Jesus uses that now familiar phrase, the abomination of desolation, he takes us back to the source of it.
And the historical source for the abomination of desolation in the Old Testament is, as Christ says, the book of Daniel the prophet. And Daniel refers to, in effect, the abomination of desolation in Daniel 8, Daniel 9, Daniel 11, and Daniel 12.
So four of the last five chapters of the book of Daniel, in essence, refer to it, though they don't use exactly the same terminology. And if you're wondering about Daniel 10, why does it not use this imagery?
Well, Daniel 10 doesn't actually contain a vision, a predictive prophecy. It contains Daniel's interaction with angelic messengers. Chris, would you like me to take you to those texts in Daniel?
Yes, definitely. Definitely.
OK, here is Daniel 8, verse 13, quote, The vision concerning the daily sacrifice and the transgression of desolation to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden underfoot. And the first use of it here doesn't talk about the abomination of desolation.
It talks about the transgression of desolation. The next reference to it, Daniel 9, verse 27, in connection with the 70 weeks, it speaks of. The overspreading of abominations, one of the keywords, the overspreading of abominations, he shall make it desolate even onto the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
And then in Daniel 11, verse 31 and chapter 12, verse 11, it talks about the abomination that make a desolate. So there's a sort of a development, even in the terminology, the transgression of desolation, chapter eight, the overspreading of abominations that make it desolate.
So you have the two words abominations and desolate, but not related in precisely the same form. And then the last two references in Daniel get closer. It they refer to the abomination that make a desolate.
And then Jesus uses the abomination of desolation. But I think we should explain those two key words, abomination and desolation. An abomination is basically what people have rightly assumed it to be, something which is utterly disgusting, loathsome, repulsive, horrible, from which you would draw back with abhorrence.
And then the abomination of desolation means that there's something horrible. Loathsome that makes. And then I supply the context that makes the temple, the worship of God in that place desolate, it cannot be done, it's no longer a holy, sacred place for the worship of God.
It's been rendered desolate because of the detestable thing that has been placed there. So hopefully that'll get our listeners right to the heart of the issue.
And I already mentioned that you are an amillennialist and perhaps you could even define that there are different varieties of amillennialism, as you know, you and I probably have some differences as I tend to lean toward a partial preterist understanding of amillennialism.
But I know that there are varying degrees of things believed amongst amillennialists that are yet to be future in their fulfillment. But explain where you're coming from.
OK, the abomination of desolation, as you've been implying, Chris, has a has a context and I'll get to the millennial views in a moment, but I will get there. Trust me, the abomination of desolation occurs in the Olivet Discourse on Teaching Tuesday.
Jesus spoke about the last times a few days before his cross for our sins. It appears in that context as part of the Great Tribulation. Jesus refers to the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24, verse 11, for then shall be great tribulation such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time.
No, nor ever shall be. So you've got the abomination of desolation. It's within the teaching of the Great Tribulation, which is itself within the Olivet Discourse, Christ's longest teaching on the last times, which then is interpreted by different people within millennial views, premillennialism, postmillennialism, amillennialism, all of their distinctive views.
And then there are there are different forms of premillennialism. There's historic premillennialism and dispensationalist premillennialism. And there's different forms of postmillennialism, historic postmillennialism and a more reconstructionist, preterist sort of postmillennialism.
So this abomination of desolation, as I'm presenting it, in connection with amillennialism has, I think this will be helpful for our listeners, has three fulfillments. That is concrete, historical or future instance, which the Bible specifically refers to, and I hope we get to this later in the interview.
It is a very relevant topic for what's going on today because there are other abominable things that make worship of specific churches or denominations desolate. So first of all, Daniel 8, Daniel 11 and Daniel 12 refers to the first historic instance of the abomination of desolation upon which all the millennial views, so far as I'm aware, agree and we love to be united on things.
The abomination of desolation as set up by Antiochus Epiphanes the fourth in the Temple of Jerusalem in 168, 167 BC. So this is a Greek abomination of desolation in the second century before Christ. Daniel 8, 11 and 12 refers to that.
Then Matthew 24, verse 15 refers to an abomination of desolation, a Roman abomination of desolation, if you will, in A .D. 70, when the Roman Empire under the command of Titus devastated Jerusalem and the temple and were engaged in idolatrous acts in that mighty structure.
And Daniel 9 is the chapter of the four in Daniel that refer to it. And then as an amillennialist, I believe that there is a third future to us instance of the abomination of desolation very near the second coming of Jesus Christ, when he will come to raise the dead, judge the nations and bring in the eternal state of the new heavens and the new earth and the lake of fire.
And this third, final, highest form of the abomination of desolation is predicted by way of typology, especially from the book of Daniel and from Matthew 24. And this final abomination of desolation is spoken of in slightly different terminology in second Thessalonians 2, where the man of sin comes into the temple of God, which is a good amillennialist I take to be the church making the worship of God in the church.
Institute visible church is impossible, and Revelation 13 speaks of the image of the beast, which is the abomination of desolation, ripped large at the very end of this present evil age. Did that cover it for you, Chris?
Oh, yeah. So we lost. No, I I had myself on mute because I was coughing my brains out and I forgot to unmute myself. Well, that's OK. Sorry.
Not that I want to see you coughing your brains out, but I thought we were we'd lost you.
There. No, that's quite all right. Well, we are going to continue where you left off when we return from our first commercial break. And if anybody wants to join the conversation with a question for Pastor Angus Stewart on the abomination of desolation, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail dot com.
C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail dot com. As always, give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
Let's say you radically disagree with your own pastor over something that we are discussing today and you'd rather not identify yourself publicly. Maybe you're even the pastor and you disagree with your own fellow elders or your denomination.
Well, those are the kinds of things that may compel you to be anonymous. But please, if it's a general question about what the scriptures teach about this, what historically has been taught about this by great men of the past and so on, if it's a general question, give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.
Don't go away. We'll be right back with Angus Stewart after these messages.
Greetings. This is Brian McLaughlin, president of the Secure Comm Group and supporter of Chris Arnzen's Iron Shopping Zion radio program, Secure Comm provides the highest level of security systems for residential buildings, municipalities, churches, commercial properties and much more.
We can be reached at Secure Comm Group dot com. That's Secure Comm Group dot com. But today I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.
Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur and the film Chariots of Fire. The Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt God's pleasure when he ran.
He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God. I sense that same God given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God. That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.
I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church, visit NHPBC dot com.
That's NHPBC dot com. You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672. That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church. A congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's word and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.
God bless you.
It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world. Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed, Dr. Joe Moorcraft.
I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in a tie in County Kildare, Ireland. Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.
Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area. Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards. And Dr. Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight volume commentary on the larger catechism.
Heritage is a member of the Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great Protestant Reformation of the 16th century.
Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the triune God that continues in eternity.
For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com, that's HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com, or call 678 -954 -7831, that's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, tell them Joe Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener from a tie in County Kildare, Ireland, sent you.
I'm Phil Johnson, executive director of Grace to You with John MacArthur. I've been a frequent guest on Iron Sharpens Iron radio, and I highly recommend this show. But today I want to tell you about one of its advertisers, Rare Document Traders.
Far and away my favorite source for quality Charles Spurgeon memorabilia. Are you looking for that special, unique gift for your pastor or missionary friend or a loved one? Why not purchase a piece of church history that any believer would cherish?
Rare Document Traders is your one-step source for Spurgeon's handwritten manuscripts and letters, as well as other rare books and collectible items from church history. In 15 years that they've been in business, they've earned a stellar reputation in the reformed community with thousands of satisfied customers all around the world, including me.
Visit RareDocTraders .com today. That's RareDocTraders .com. Don't forget to mention you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron radio. That's RareDocTraders .com.
I'm Pastor Bill Shishko of The Haven, an Orthodox Presbyterian church in Comac, Long Island. I hold the Iron Sharpens Iron radio program hosted by my longtime friend and brother, Chris Arnson, in the highest esteem, and I'm thrilled that you're listening today.
I'm also delighted that Iron Sharpens Iron is partnering with one of my favorite resources for reformed Christian literature for decades now, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service. Well, with the economic nightmare that we're all currently enduring, CVBBS .com, I want to enable you to build a wonderful personal library of the best literature that the reformers, the Puritans, and the great Christian minds of today have to offer, and at affordable prices.
Not only does CVBBS .com offer up to 50 off retail prices, but you'll get an added 5 off orders of $50 or more by using promo code IRON, I-R-O-N, an added 5 off all of your orders of $50 or more from Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.
That's CVBBS .com, making the joy of reading the finest in Christian literature more affordable. Oh, and make sure that you tell them you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.
I'm Pastor Keith Allen of Linnbrook Baptist Church, a Christ-centered, gospel-driven church looking to spread the gospel in the southwest portion of Long Island, New York, and play our role in fulfilling the Great Commission, supporting and sending for the spread of the gospel to the ends of the earth.
We're delighted to be a part of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio advertising family. At Linnbrook Baptist Church, we believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired Word of God, inerrant in the original writings, complete as the revelation of God's will for salvation and the supreme and final authority in all matters to which they speak.
We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God, was purchased by Christ on the cross, and is received through faith alone, apart from any human merit, works, or ritual.
Salvation in Christ also results in righteous living, good works, and appropriate respect and concern for all who bear God's image. If you live near Linnbrook, Long Island, or if you're just passing through on the Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship.
For details, visit Linnbrookbaptist .org. That's L-Y-N-Brookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Linnbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves.
It is the gift of God, not a result of words, so that no one may boast of the Lord's blessing and the knowledge of himself.
Here at Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, praise God for the generous monthly financial support of Royal Diadem Jewelers, educated by and affiliated with the American Gem Society, Jewelers of America, and the Gemological Institute of America.
For the perfect custom-designed engagement ring, or any one-of-a-kind piece of jewelry created exactly according to your imagination and specifications, Royal Diadem Jewelers has you covered. No matter where you live in the world, Royal Diadem will walk you step-by-step through every stage of the process and even hold a high-tech internet virtual visit using state-of-the-art jewelry design technology to serve you.
They start by listening carefully to determine your needs. They're interested in making what you want, not what they want to sell you. From rough design to digital model, to photo-realistic image, to wax prototype model, to the finished product, they're continually listening to your input, likes and dislikes, making any changes necessary along the way.
This will ensure that your custom jewelry will turn out exactly as you dreamed and well beyond your expectations. Visit royaldiadem .com. That's royaldiadem .com today. Sterling Vandewerker, owner of Royal Diadem Jewelers, his wife, Bronnie, his business partner and manager, Brian Wilson, and the entire family, thank you all for listening to, praying for, and supporting the work of Iron Sharpens Iron.
Radio. And please don't forget, folks, royaldiadem .com is still offering Iron Sharpens Iron Radio this mind-blowing offer. They are giving Iron Sharpens Iron Radio 100 of the profits from any sale of jewelry to an Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener, simply by that listener mentioning Iron Sharpens Iron Radio when they make their purchase.
So if you are in the market for a piece of jewelry, or even more than one, either for yourself or someone you love, and don't forget Mother's Day is coming up very soon, and so is Father's Day, and I'm sure a lot of wedding anniversaries are coming up, and I am sure that there are men listening who are planning to pop the question to the special lady in their life and propose, which will require an engagement ring.
Well, whatever the occasion may be, please go to royaldiadem .com today to at least get the ball rolling on your purchase and mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. The reason why I'm urging you to do this today is we have no idea when they're going to pull the plug on this offer to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, where we get 100 of the profits from any sale of jewelry to our listeners.
And keep in mind, folks, royaldiadem .com loves Iron Sharpens Iron Radio so much. This offer they are giving to us, where we get 100 of the profits from any sale to our listeners, is on top of the monthly financial support that royaldiadem .com already automatically provides every single month.
So please go to royaldiadem .com today and mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We're now back with Angus Stewart, and before I take a listener question, because whether I take the question now or later will be determined by your response to me.
Do you want to go through with a magnifying glass, as it were, and provide more detail on those three fulfillments of prophecy of the abomination of desolation, or do you want to focus primarily on the yet-to-be-future fulfillment of this?
Chris, am I allowed to say both?
Sure, you are.
You offer a kid a mint ice cream or a strawberry one, and the answer is both.
All right, I'll wait to ask Wendy in Yappank, Long Island, New York, I'll wait to ask her question, because it will have you going out of sequence chronologically.
I beg for Wendy's indulgence. A little bit then about the first instance of the abomination of desolation spoken of in Daniel 8, 11, and 12, the one connected with Antiochus Epiphanes the fourth, who was based in Syria.
Here, it's helpful to quote some parts of 1st and 2nd Maccabees, which are in the Apocrypha. Now, I don't believe that the Apocryphal books are inspired. No, no, only 66 books were breathed forth by the Holy Spirit, but we can make use of the Maccabees just as much as we can make use of the Encyclopedia Britannica or a guidebook.
Right.
The 1st Maccabees chapter 1, verse 54, refers to the forces of Antiochus Epiphanes the fourth. It says, they set up the abomination upon the altar. And then verse 59 of chapter 1 says, on the 25th day of the month, they did sacrifice upon the idol altar, which was upon the altar of God.
So according to 1st Maccabees 1, there was the altar of God in this rebuilt temple by Zerubbabel. And then the Greeks came and put an altar on top of the altar. And then they offered swine's flesh, which is contrary to the Old Testament ceremonial law in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14.
They offered swine's flesh upon this other altar, upon God's altar, it being an unclean animal. And this swine's flesh was offered to Zeus, one of the Olympian gods of the Greeks, and this rendered God's temple desolate, this abominable thing.
And then Antiochus Epiphanes didn't rest content with that. He slaughtered the people, killed circumcised children, required people to engage in the Greek culture, which included males performing naked and sporting activities.
He took away the golden altar, the candlestick of light, the table of showbread, and all the vessels, vials, and censers from the temple. And then we also read that he forbade the Sabbath. He forbade the Jewish Old Testament feast days.
And he required the people to hold celebrations to Bacchus or Dionysius, the god of wine, drunkenness and partying, profaning and desolating the people of God. So I think that's helpful to get out because that's the first one historically, the one that everyone agrees on.
And it sort of sets the tone for Daniel's idea of it, which Jesus picks up on in Matthew chapter 24. We don't have just as much historical detail as provided in 1 and 2 Maccabees with the second historical instance of the abomination of desolation.
Josephus, a Jewish historian, refers to it. I'm going to cite a little bit from Albert Barnes's commentary on Matthew, referring to the Roman or AD 70 abomination of desolation. It talks about the Roman armies with their ensigns or standards.
Coming into the temple, Josephus relates that when the city of Jerusalem was taken, the Romans brought their idols into the temple and placed them over the eastern gate and sacrificed to them there. And he cites Josephus's Jewish Wars, book six, chapter six and section one.
And then, of course, the Romans went on to destroy that temple, as Jesus predicted in Matthew 24, so that there wouldn't be one stone upon another stone. And then such as the millennial contention, which I'd like to back up later, these two instances in the second century BC, the Greek one and the first century AD, the Roman one with both take a place in the temple in Jerusalem, foreshadow point ahead to the future one in connection with the personal antichrist at the end of the age.
OK, that'd be a good point to stop.
Yep. Sorry. Sure, that's fine. And I guess we could take Wendy's question now. Wendy in Yapank, Long Island, New York, asks, in your view of the future fulfillment of the abomination of desolation prophecy, do you believe that this is going to be the Roman Catholic Church involved in this desecration?
Will it be those from evangelical Christianity at large in a general way or just a universal group of Christians coming from all backgrounds?
Wow, that's a big question from from Wendy. The short answer is all of the above. That is the subject of the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 in 2 Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 13, which developed this concept further and which both harken back to Daniel and Daniel 8, 9, 11 and 12, all of those chapters and that's four from Daniel and four from New Testament, all of them connect the abomination of desolation with apostasy, that is, professing Christians, not true elect believers, but those who profess the faith in some shape or form, departing even more vilely from Jesus Christ, engaging in false worship.
And they do that in part because of the temptation to avoid persecution, which is also a massive theme in those passages. And that in connection with the Antichrist, who's typified by Antiochus Epiphanes in Daniel 8, 11 and 12, the man of sin, as he's called in 2 Thessalonians 2, who's called the beast in Revelation 13.
And the connection between Roman Catholicism and the man of sin and our subject, the abomination of desolation, is long, very, very long. I could quote to you the Bohemian Confession of 1573, which takes references to the abomination of desolation and applies them to the papacy.
There's the Second Confession of London, Amsterdam, Congregationalist Independence of 1596. They applied the abomination of desolation to the papacy and also to Anglicanism, which had forced them to leave their native England.
But even before the Reformation, there's a Hussite Manifesto of 1419, which said that the papacy was a manifestation of the abomination of desolation. And even going back to 1354, the Fraticelli, they said that the abomination of desolation was the papal condemnation of apostolic poverty.
Let me explain. The Fraticelli were Franciscan monks. The Franciscans were big into poverty, apostolic poverty. You're not allowed to own anything. This, of course, caused problems because Jesus himself even owned the clothes on his back in his house in Capernaum.
The papacy then condemned their strict form of apostolic poverty. And the Fraticelli in 1354 then said that the papal condemnation of apostolic poverty is itself the manifest fulfillment of the abomination of desolation.
So and of course, those are just just some historical examples.
And I'm assuming that in this rare instance, you agree with the papacy over the Fraticelli, which, by the way, is served with clam sauce over at my favorite Italian restaurant, but but you don't agree that that's the.
This vow of apostolic poverty was something that Christians should obey and.
Follow. Oh, no.
Oh, no. The three classic monastic vows of celibacy, poverty and obedience, obedience. You have to do whatever your superior tells you. Well, that's not biblical. You shouldn't subject yourself to a man in that way at all.
And then celibacy. You know, that's an unnatural thing and only certain people have the gift. First Corinthians seven is very clear on that. And that, of course, has led into all sorts of fornication and and homosexuality within the papacy that has been going on for centuries and has been exposed, especially recently by more secular people who wish to discredit Christianity by attacking the Roman church.
But the vow of poverty, the Bible doesn't, you know, for Acts five, for instance, when you sell something, it remains your own under God. The believer, and indeed the unbeliever, owns things and the apostolic poverty of the Fraticelli or little brethren, supposedly devout followers of Francis of Assisi.
They were barking up the wrong tree. They got themselves into a lot of trouble there. They were they were dead wrong. Their criticisms of the papacy in general and the other ones, though, were were quite right.
Yes.
OK, we have Simeon in Toronto, Canada, who asks, does your view of the future fulfillment of the abomination of desolation get more detailed on exactly what is occurring in our future by the apostate church?
Like I'm assuming Simeon is talking about what you already mentioned. One of the past fulfillments was a statue of Zeus. So what would be a future fulfillment? And if you don't know for certain, according to your eschatology, do you have.
A guess? There are two big elements in that one is one involves the the nature of prophecy and what can reasonably be expected beforehand. For instance, I was reading a very fine commentary on Daniel earlier today and it was dealing with Daniel 11.
And so the question was. How much do we expect beforehand? What refers to Antioch as Epiphanies, the fourth, and then by analogy and typology, what refers to the final Antichrist? How do you then put that together with Matthew 24, 2 Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 13 with the image of the beast?
How literally do you interpret certain things? And how much are we supposed to know? Because there's a way in which and Daniel actually itself makes this pretty clear that these things are in a sense sealed.
You don't know exactly how things are going to be fulfilled until the reality comes. The broad outline is there, but the details who can put together I'll use an analogy, the first coming of Christ. We know because he's come our savior and because the New Testament interprets it that Psalm 110, for instance, says that he would be a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
Genesis 49 and Isaiah 11, just to cite two chapters out of many, predicts that he's a king. Isaiah 53 pictures him as a suffering servant. We know how those were fulfilled. We know about the life and ministry and cross of Jesus and his resurrection from the dead.
But putting all that together for a saint, let's say 300 BC, would have been more difficult. And so I'm arguing by analogy, how much do we know about what exactly is going to take, what exact form it's going to take?
For instance, let's take the image of the beast. Imagine someone in 1700 reading that passage, Revelation 13. How is there going to be some sort of an image that can speak or destroy people? Then when television comes along in the 20th century, then someone could say maybe, maybe there's going to be something like a television in there.
In the 21st century, we have avatars. Maybe something like that could happen. For instance, we have the mark of the beast. Is the mark of the beast also mentioned in Revelation 13 going to be something physical?
Some say yes, some say no. If it is going to be physical, something like a bar chip, a bar code or a chip implanted would be one way in which that could be fulfilled. So within these sorts of sorts of parameters, in the meantime, because I could go into more details in the meantime, we don't have to know every detail and not everybody on the radio show has to know every every detail that the speakers.
But in the meantime, we're to pray about these things, think about these things, watch and to be faithful to the revelation we've given to avoid worldliness, false worship and to follow the lamb wherever he goes.
That's my brief answer, trying to cover most of the main elements.
All right. We have Aggie in Battleground, Washington. And by the way, Aggie, I don't know if you are a member of a biblically solid church, but if you're not, I can highly recommend one in Battleground, Washington, pastored by my very dear friend, William Webster, who is a prolific author primarily on the heresies of Roman Catholicism and has written for Banner of Truth as well as publishing his own works.
But I'll just throw that out there. But Aggie in Battleground, Washington, asks, how different is your view from the dispensationalist, futurist understanding of this prophecy?
Very different. Quick word about William, William Webster. This reminds me, I loaned one of his fine books on, I think it was the Church of Rome at the Bar of History.
Yeah, that's an excellent, that's an excellent book.
Yeah, yeah. And I don't know who it was, but it never came back.
Wasn't me, wasn't me.
No, I'm sure it wasn't.
I get free copies from Banner of Truth, so it wasn't me.
Oh, the perks of being a radio talk show host, Chris. The differences with dispensationalism are many and deep. First of all, we do not believe in a literal thousand year millennium. I am an amillennialist of the school of Augustine.
The millennium is the period between the first and second coming of Christ. Christ bound the strong man at his first coming, and he will be released, as Revelation 20 says, towards the end in Satan's little season in connection with the operation of Antichrist and persecution and so forth.
Actually, what's with that? Abomination of desolation comes in. So there is no future literal thousand year millennium. Nevermind as particularly Jewish millennium with those horrible idea of bringing back a temple and animal sacrifices and a priesthood, which is all going backwards and contrary to the book of Hebrews.
Secondly, there is no literal seven year tribulation. As per dispensationalism, thirdly, there is no rapture of nevermind a secret rapture of some saints, which most dispensations would put at the start of their literal seven year tribulation.
And besides those three things in the future, there is the erroneous hermeneutic, totally contrary to scripture, interpreting scripture. This Israel versus the church notion, which is just terrible. They make the church play a second fiddle to the church of Jesus Christ as bride, play second fiddle to the Jews in the Old Testament, whereas the Jews, the Old Testament is preparatory, pointing ahead to the greater day, the gathering of a Catholic or universal church out of all nations.
And they put the greater thing. They make the greater things serve the lesser thing. And then, of course, is the hermeneutic that results in all forms of totally unreformed, not to say bizarre interpretations.
So we'll cover the main things there. Chris, would you like to add anything to that?
Well, I just like to say that I know that many dispensationalists refer to the church as a parentheses before the return of Christ, just as you were saying, it's playing second fiddle to the Jews and the nation of Israel.
But I wanted to clarify something that you said, because I know you did not mean by your denial of the rapture as you described it. I know that you are not a hyper preterist, which is heresy. And people may misunderstand what you said, thinking that you do not believe in a future of fulfillment that is included to the Thessalonians, for instance, where the saints will be caught up in the air with Christ at the end before the last day.
Yes, Chris, I appreciate anyone who wants to make me out to be orthodox. That's usually not what happens. So, yes, definitely at 1st Corinthians 15, but also 1st Thessalonians 4 does say that the saints will be taken up to meet Christ in the air and that after the resurrection of believers in connection with the general resurrection of believers and unbelievers.
But that happens at the second coming of Christ.
And the key thing is that there's one second coming of Christ, one resurrection of Christ, one final judgment. And unlike the dispensationists, we don't believe in a first second coming before the seven year tribulation and a second second coming before the literal thousand years.
And then a third second coming at the end of the millennium. It starts to get really silly with all these two and threes. And then the next thing they think, where does this come at the start of this?
And does this come after that? The Apostles Creed had it right. We believe in the coming of Christ. We believe in the resurrection of the body and the life everlasting and premillennialism and then dispensationalism have been slicing and dicing and making it incredibly complicated.
Yeah, I just wanted to make sure you made that clear and thank you. And we are going to our midway break now, folks. So please use this time wisely. Write down as much of the contact information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can more frequently and successfully contact our advertisers, purchase their products and use their services and visit their churches.
But when you can't do that, please at least thank them for sponsoring the show. And of course, send in your questions to Angus Stewart, to Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com. We'll be right back.
Armored Republic exists to equip free men with tools of liberty to defend God given rights against the twin threats of tyranny and chaos. If you own a rifle to resist tyrants and criminals, then you should own body armor and a med kit for the same reasons.
A rifle stops evil, body armor and a med kit keep you in the fight and preserve your life. Armored Republic is a body of free craftsmen united to create tools of liberty. We are honored to be your armorsmith of choice.
Civilian ownership of body armor is about increasing decentralized power and by comparison, reducing the advantages of centralized power. The danger of centralized power is often represented by the word king.
As Americans, we hate the word king applied to any mere man. We are Armored Republic and in a republic there is no king but Christ. Arm yourself with tools of liberty at Armored Republic dot com.
Chris Arnzen here, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. I strongly recommend a church I've been recommending as far back as the 1980s, Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.
Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world. They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship God in spirit and truth.
They endeavor to maintain a God centered focus and to protect worship from the intrusion of carnal entertainments and distractions. Reading, preaching and hearing the word of God, singing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship performed with faith, joy and sobriety.
Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, at.
G .C. B .C.
Dash N .J. Dot org.
That's G .C.
B .C.
Dash N .J. Dot org. Or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654. Tell Pastor Dunn you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.
It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.
I'm Dr.
Joe Moorcraft, pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Anthony Uvino, founder of the ReformRookie .com and co-founder of New York Apologetics, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Tim Bushong of Syracuse Baptist Church in Syracuse, Indiana, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Eli Ayala, founder of Revealed Apologetics and staff member with the Historical Bible Society, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Josh Miller of Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Joe Bianchi, president of Calvi Press Publishing in Greenville, South Carolina, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jake Korn of Switzerland Community Church in Switzerland, Florida, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.
This is Pastor Bill Sousa of Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee. Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.
Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our Lord Jesus Christ.
And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God. If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.
Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin. Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org. This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.
If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers. One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Hansen is doing is Daniel P. Patafuco, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.
Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society. Their mission to foster belief in the credibility of scripture as the written word of God. They go to various churches, schools and institutions to publicly display a rare collection of biblical texts along with a fascinating presentation by Mr. Patafuco demonstrating the reliability of scripture.
To advance the cause of the gospel, they created a beautiful perfect facsimile of the genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition 1611 King James Bible. This 17th century hand engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ going back to Adam and Eve.
This book is complete with gorgeous full size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the Tower of Babel and an explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims to the throne of the universe.
Originals of this work are in museums and nobody's ever made it accessible to the public in a large book form. Before you can have your own copy of this 44 page genealogy book for a donation of $35 or more.
Visit historicalbiblesociety .org that's historicalbiblesociety .org. Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has had a long time partnership with our friends at CBBBS which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.
They specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable for everyone. CBBBS has been a family owned book service since 1987 operating out of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.
They seek to bring you the best available Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices and now they're also shipping worldwide. Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure and purchase with confidence at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.
Order online worldwide at cbbbs .com that's cbbbs .com or you can order by phone at 717 -249 -0231 that's 717 -249 -0231. For orders of $50 or more use promo code IRON for an extra 5 off their already discounted prices and please let our friends at CBBBS know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my dividing line webcast often enough, you know, I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.
And besides that, they feel so good. I'm so delighted. I discovered post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding. No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot. Jeffrey Rice of Post Tenebrous Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan.
All his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching. Jeffrey uses the finest and buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like the turquoise goat skin tanned in Italy used for my Nestle All in 28th edition with a Navy blue goat skin inside liner and the electric blue goat skin from a French tannery used to rebind a Reformation study Bible I used as a gift.
The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome. Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather, making whatever he rebinds a one of a kind work of art.
For more details on Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding, go to P T L Bible rebinding .com. That's P T L Bible rebinding .com.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted. He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.
You need to read solid ground. Christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of preachers to heart. The mission of solid ground Christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.
Since its beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish God centered Christ exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid-ground-books .com. That's solid-ground-books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or present you can unearth from solid ground.
Solid ground Christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens, iron radio.
And don't forget folks solid-ground-books .com is a primary, a premier, a vital financial supporter of iron sharpens, iron radio. So please for any holiday giving any special event that you want to bless someone the best in Christian literature or just to replenish your own library with the most edifying and educational and biblically faithful books from the 16th century Protestant reformation to our current day.
Please go to solid-ground-books .com purchase generously and mention iron sharpens, iron radio. Uh, before I return to my guest today, pastor Angus Stewart, uh, we have some important announcements to make.
Uh, if you really love this show, folks, I'm urging you, please go to iron sharpens, iron radio .com click support, then click, click to donate. Now you could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.
Uh, if you prefer a snail mail, mailing a physical check to a physical address, the old fashioned way from your post office, there will also be a physical address that appears on your screen. When you click support that iron sharpens, iron radio .com where you can mail your checks may payable to iron sharpens, iron radio.
If you want to advertise with us, whether it's your church, your power church ministry, your business, your private professional practice like a law firm or medical firm, or maybe it's just a special event, whatever it is, as long as it's compatible with my beliefs, I would love to help you launch an ad campaign as quickly as possible because we're just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars as your donations.
So send me an email to chris arnzen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line. Always remember, I never want my listeners giving less money to your own church where you are a member on the Lord's day, uh, because you want to bless us financially with a gift.
Please never give your own church less money and don't cut into the finances that you have set aside for your Lord's day giving to your own church in order to bless us. Never do that. And if you're really struggling to survive and make ends meet, wait until you're back on your feet and more financially stable before you send us a donation.
The Bible is very clear that we are primarily to use the money with which he has blessed us to provide for our church and our family and providing for iron sharpens iron radio. Although it is wonderful.
And although I urge you to donate whenever possible, it is not a command of God. So, uh, please only give to iron sharpens iron radio. If you are blessed financially above and beyond your ability to provide for church and family.
And if you do have extra money for benevolent recreational and trivial purposes, and you do love the show and you don't want it to go off the air, please go to iron sharpens iron radio .com click support, then click, click to donate now.
And last but not least, if you are not a member of a Christ honoring theologically sound, doctrinally solid, biblically faithful church, like covenant Protestant reform church in Balamina, Northern Ireland, I have extensive lists of biblically faithful churches spanning the entire globe.
And I've helped many people in our audience, find churches sometimes even within just a couple of minutes from where they live and all parts of the planet earth. So if that is you, if you are without a biblically solid church home, send me an email to Chris Arnson at gmail .com and put, I need a church in the subject line.
And that's also the email address to send in your questions to pastor Angus Stewart, uh, the abomination of desolation. Uh, that's Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence.
If you live outside of the good old USA. And, uh, we have, uh, Poppy in Colorado Springs, Colorado, and Poppy says, I just heard you answering a question about how you differ from dispensationalist eschatology, but I was wondering how you differ from dispensationalists about the specifics regarding the future fulfillment of the abomination of desolation.
That's a very good followup question. Uh, thank you, Poppy. The dispensationalist view of the abomination of desolation places it in a literal seven year tribulation. As I've said, literally in the land of Israel, Canaan, Palestine, in a literal rebuilt temple of the Jews so that according to, to them, the abomination of desolation will be set up halfway most, as far as I can tell, halfway through the literal seven years in that literal temple.
And they will be offering, uh, sacrifices. One of the difficulties of course, for, for Christians with this whole theological concept, before we look even at the exegesis, the idea of having, uh, a temple, even before the abomination of desolation put it out, having a temple offering animals with Jesus Christ, having died on the cross for the sins of his people 2000 years ago and counting is itself an abomination.
How would you have an abomination of desolation in the middle of that when the whole thing's an abomination?
Yes. Now I'm assuming you believe it is possible that there could be a temple, uh, that is constructed in the future, but that is not a good thing. And it's not a prophecy that goes along with faithful Christians sacrificing animals as a new form of the Lord's supper or something like that, that, that, uh, some dispensationalists, uh, say as an explanation, they could happen though, but not the, for the reasons they think it will.
Yes, it could happen. And, and if it, I say it could happen because, you know, I don't know the future. I mean, it could, it could happen that the team that's last in the NBA wins all its matches and the tops of the league could happen.
I don't know anything about the NBA and I don't, I don't even know if that mathematically possible, but, but yeah, the Bible doesn't say one way or the other. I mean, who knows somebody could build, build something.
But for one thing you were talking earlier about, uh, you're up about offerings and what you said was very, very wise. Um, but you know, for a professing Christian to be given money to build a temple in Jerusalem, right.
Right. Where they're going to break is, is mind boggling. I mean, I can think of a thousand and one things that'd be better to give it to. Um, but as if you're not already taxed, taxed like crazy and you've already had ended the handout.
Um, yeah.
Yeah. There are actually Christians who are funding the breeding of red heifers, uh, in order for the sacrificial, uh, system to return. And, uh, the, it's amazing how bordering on blasphemy is when you hear some of these Christians talk about this as if Jesus is waiting for men to accomplish certain things on earth before he returns.
Yes. Yes. That, that's a total misreading two of numbers chapter nine. Numbers 19 regarding the ashes of the red heifer, part of the old Testament ceremonial law, which is abrogated because fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
Belgian confession 25 makes really clear that numbers 19 doesn't even give all the specifics of, of Judaism. They have to do this special breeding. You know, it's just a red heifer. The laws are if there's one or two or three hairs or something crazy, then it's no longer red.
No, a red heifer is just a sort of a ready brown heifer that hasn't been plowed before. That's a certain age and so forth. So they make extra biblical qualifications regarding this heifer. And the new Testament tells us about the red heifer in numbers nine.
Here's its argument. If the blood of bulls and of goats and the ashes of an heifer, sprinkling the unclean Hebrews nine verse 13, sprinkling the unclean sanctifies to the purifying of the flesh. If that grants you ceremonial cleansing, which is the best anything could happen within the old Testament ceremonial law, the proper application of this comes the next verse.
How much more shall the blood of Christ who through the eternal spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living living God. That's a lesser to the greater.
Here's this animal in the old Testament give you ceremonial cleansing for certain types of, uh, of, of, uh, transgressions of the law. Well, you should be said, boy, if that can do that. Well, what about the blood of Jesus Christ, the Messiah, the son of God who offered himself up through the Holy spirit?
He did it sinlessly to God as a sacrifice on our cross. Well, that's the argument. I am to lay hold of that by faith to know cleansing and purging of all my sins and all my dead works to free me from that guilt in order to serve the living God.
And then you get these guys and they're breeding. There was a chap, his name escapes me, but I remember reading about him. I think he was in Nebraska and he was doing what you were trying to do with it.
With you thinking no people of God, Hebrews nine.
There's your gospel. There's your message.
There's your mission. But oh, no, we're into animal breeding. Oh, it makes you it makes you despair.
Terrible.
OK, we have this. Yes, I'm still here.
I was just going to ask, did we cover everything there for for for Poppy?
Well, that's that's hard to tell since Poppy is not sitting next to me. But, Poppy, if you want to email a follow up question, let us know if you need something further clarified.
Yes. Oh, Chris, I should add this. The positive instead of Jews in Palestine, the abomination of desolation is global all around the world and for the church. So that's the positive. But yes. OK.
We have victory in Willowbrook, California. I love that name victory and victory asks. And there's a comment and a question. From my experience with amillennialism, amillennialists tend to do more reacting to other eschatological views that they believe are false rather than enthusiastic from the enthusiastically promoting their own view.
What is it that is so important in your mind about amillennialism and what harm could come to Christians for not being amillennialists?
Boy, that's a that's a penetrating question with a name like victory. If Russus J. Rashtuni was here, he would pretend that that man should be a post-millennialist. The key question, of course, is the nature of the victory.
My eschatology is actually not about reacting to other eschatologies. My eschatology was born out of the simple, heartfelt desire. What does the Bible actually teach? I have experience with dispensationalism because I used to be one and premillennialism because I gave up dispensationalism and thought, well, maybe I can hold on to my premillennialism and then have experience with postmillennialism.
Especially through the Banner of Truth, the older, more historical one. They publish some postmillennial authors and and then with the Reconstructionist issue, because we had a controversy with that in our church about about 20, 20 years ago.
But for me, the key issue is exegesis. You know, what does the Bible teach? I get into the various forms of premillennialism because as a very young Christian, not really knowing much, people put certain books in my head, in my hand.
And then I read Salem, Kirben and got in touch with some some brethren type people. But the more I read the Bible, the Westminster Confession, John, John Calvin, and kept reading scripture and soaking them through and interpreting scripture with scripture.
I believe that amillennialism is just true. It's it's the surface reading of the pastures. It's the middle reading of the pastures. It's the depth reading of the pastures. And when you compare Old Testament with New Testament, Daniel, Matthew, 24, Revelation, it fits and it also fits with the whole biblical eschatological framework.
Chris, you're going to like this. I'm going to recommend a book by a Baptist. You may well know the chap Samuel E. Waldron as a very helpful book. The End Times made simple. How could everyone be so wrong about biblical prophecy?
Yes, Sam has. Sam has been on my program a number of times. Very good. And Sam is also the president of Covenant Baptist Theological Seminary in Kentucky, Owensboro, Kentucky. And my one of my former pastors is on the faculty and president of the board there.
Very good. So his book was the one that I thought most laid out well, the treatment of the two ages, this age from creation fall to the second coming of Christ. And the age to come and what the Bible says about this age and what the Bible says about the age to come related to that is another of the Bible's time periods, the last days, which is the which.
And I could prove this about time. The period between Christ's first coming is death, burial, resurrection, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the second coming. And then Christ's second coming is the last day.
And with the two ages, the last days and the last day and the things that come immediately before the last day that happened at the last day and come after it. You have the Bible's own time framework within to fit the various passages, because that's what the debate in many ways is about.
Here's this passage. Does that refer to a millennium? Does it refer to a seven year tribulation? Does it refer to a golden age? Well, where do you put the passages? And I think the Bible's own framework is the best way of answering the question.
And I'm convinced that it is a millennial. And with regard to positive, I'm an incredibly positive person, Chris. We have 100 classes on eschatology, and we're actually partway through it in our church on our website, cprc .co .uk forward slash resources dash on dash eschatology.
And for your listeners currently, it's on the very top right of our website, cprc .co .uk. Click on that. There's 100 audios of doctrinal classes and we're not even finished on the end times. There's books on there.
There's pamphlets, including some by Prof. Engelsman, I know you've had on, wonderful man, and others that that will really flesh this out. It's something eschatology that gives people hope that lifts their heads up to the second coming of Christ.
And if I can add a little bit of an ad hominem here on the other side, my experience is that with maybe this is more post-millennialists in in the British Isles that they tend on the whole to be rather gloomy because they look at the way things are going in church and state in the British Isles, and they're not going well.
They're not going well in Europe and generally either. And then they say, look at this. This is terrible. This is terrible. And they're right. And then they say, ah, but but I'm a post-millennial, so things are going to get better.
And then they're 50 or 70 years old and they say, yeah, but I'm probably not even going to see it. So the victory isn't even going to do them any good. And then, of course, we define victory different.
We're victorious when by faith we endure in Jesus Christ. We press on. We witness. We suffer. We serve the Lord. And we have a good conscience. And we're looking forward to our eternal reward and fellowship with Jesus Christ.
Did that cover most of it for you, Chris? Do you think we'll victory be convinced that I couldn't tell you?
But I guess if she wants to follow up with another question, that would be great as well.
I didn't realize. Victory was a. She heard, you know, you know,.
Something I don't know. I don't know why I thought that immediately, but you're right. It could be a man. I mean, I apologize, Victory, if I misgendered you, not in the way that people are accused of doing it today, but actually identifying you in a different gender than you are.
But the one of the reasons that. The more futuristic dispensationalist views. Are problematic to me, just one of the reasons is that the predictions of the nearness of Christ's return abound. They've been going on ever since dispensationalist rose to existence in the 19th century.
And and over and over again, people who hear and witness this proclamation that Jesus is definitely it's often said definitely is going to return in our lifetime. And then they could be viewed very rightly as false prophets for making these kinds of claims because it doesn't happen.
Indeed, and it discredits Christianity. John Nelson Darby himself predicted that the rapture would occur sometime during 1842. John Nelson Darby said that the rapture would occur sometime during 1842, and that's cited in Jonathan D. Burnham's book entitled A Story of Conflict.
The controversial relationship between Benjamin's Wills Newton, who was a historic premill, and John Nelson Darby, who was a dispensationalist, and he was false. It was dead wrong. That's that's in a book, Behold, I Come Quickly.
I say that in an article I've written in the book, Behold, I Come Quickly, The Reformed Biblical Truth of the End, written by David J. Engelsman and Andy Lanning. And our church published that book a while ago.
Chris, we have another eschatology conference coming up to. In four months, where is that long conference at your church? It's in in Shropshire, in England.
Oh, wow.
We're going to deal we're going to deal with it. We've got a lovely venue, an old stately house booked for a week. Reverend Ron Henkel, my former pastor and Prof. Brian Heisinger are going to speak on the reformed doctrine of eschatology.
And I'm going to give a historical lecture entitled The Venerable Bede and the Book of Revelation.
Wow.
And the Venerable Bede was an English monk, 672, 673 to 735. He's got a very interesting commentary on the Book of Revelation. And it agrees pretty much, you'll not be surprised to hear with what I've been saying tonight, actually, Chris.
So there you have it. We've got almost the conference entirely booked up. It's the third to the 10th of August this year, four months time. But if there is anybody who wants to come do a web search for the British Reformed Fellowship or the British Reformed Fellowship Conference, and they'll find it.
But book quickly, because we're running out of beds at the conference center.
Now, when people go there in Shropshire, England, do they have to fear the Shropshire slasher? That's just a joke, because I don't know if you watched Bugs Bunny cartoons in Northern Ireland. I did when I was growing up, and that was a character in one of the Bugs Bunny episodes, the Shropshire slasher, a British criminal.
It immediately came to my memory when you mentioned that city.
Chris, I feel awful. I used to watch Bugs Bunny, and I never heard tell of the Shropshire slasher. And I'll be given some guided tours during this conference. I'm I'm going to have to search out the Shropshire slasher and mention it on one of our day trips.
Well, I'm sure the only place it will come up as in a Bugs Bunny cartoon. And if you Google it now, what is the website for people to register for that?
Let's see, there are three websites. There's the main website of the British Reformed Fellowship. Probably easier just to do a search. Then there's then there's British Reformed Fellowship Weebly, which gives us details about the conference, how to travel there.
Day trips, costs, booking form. But my wife Mary's beside me. She said, if you go to CPRC .co .uk near the top right, besides the material on eschatology, but near the top right on the right hand side of the of the homepage, CPRC .co .uk, there'll be a link to the BRF conference and there'll be other links off that.
So that that should be very good.
And there I know that we have listeners in England. So and other parts of the UK. So I hope that some of them will respond favorably to that promotion and we'll get there. Well, what major cities in England is ruptured near?
The closest airports would be Liverpool and Manchester. Birmingham, East Midlands, they're all about an hour or slightly more away. Shropshire doesn't have big cities. It it it has Shrewsbury, which is the birth of Charles Darwin, whose dangerous idea of evolutionism has done so much damage to this world.
But Shropshire was also where the Industrial Revolution started. So we're going to get deep eschatology and really interesting history about the Industrial Revolution. It involves Henry the Eighth, not the Industrial Revolution, but with Shropshire, how he came to be king in the development of Anglicanism and the Olympic Games had a boost.
Matthew Henry, my wife mentions she's in the background here. She's telling me things that I should say. Chester, the city of Chester, where Matthew Henry, the great Presbyterian Bible commentator, ministered for many years.
You can see where his old church was. And there's an obelisk to his memory. And one of the day trips will go to Chester. Chris, you'll need to be wanting to come yourself by the time we finish this segment of the show.
Well, I'm already interested, but sometimes I'm interested in doing many things that I can't afford to do. But by the way, I want to let you know that a listener in the States here in the United States, Cheryl said that she has found your website to be a great blessing.
And another listener mentions that you had a debate on Calvinism. It's Peter, but I don't know where where Peter is from, that you had a debate on Calvinism. When did that happen and who did you debate?
Oh, there was a debate on Calvinism. I think he's referring to the video debate. It was on Revelation TV in London. I'm just going to the website to remind myself when it was 11 years ago. So I think that would be no.
14 years ago. So it would have been about about twenty ten then or twenty two thousand and nine. Interestingly, on that subject, we're using modern technology to translate that debate into Spanish. We're part way through and we want to get in Portuguese, possibly Chinese, Indonesian, German, French and different languages and get that on YouTube.
Then who is your debating opponent?
Oh, the opponent, the C. His name was Timothy Ramsey, a minister from London or its environs.
OK. And I'm assuming a full blown Armenian.
Yes, yes, yes. I think he was a five a five pointer. Wow.
Did he actually label himself as an Iranian?
Because most Armenians don't know he did. I remember the chap who introduced it said tonight we have two two characters, one in the red corner and one in the blue corner like a boxing match. So it so yeah.
So there was there was total disagreement on the controversial area. It wasn't much, much common ground.
Well, by the way, thank you, Cheryl and Amarillo Texas for that compliment and encouragement to Angus and Peter. I'd love to hear where you're from. Who mentioned the Calvinist debate? But we're going to our final commercial break right now.
And if you do have a question, I would strongly urge you to submit it now before we run out of time. Our email address is Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com. Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com. As always, give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.
Don't go away. We'll be right back.
Puritan Reformed is a Bible believing kingdom building devil fighting church. We are devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in Scripture alone. Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image bearing prophets, priests and kings.
We teach families to worship together as families. Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea. We sing the Psalms, teach the law, proclaim the gospel, make disciples, maintain discipline and exalt Christ.
This is Pastor David Reese of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix, Arizona. Join us in the glorious cause of advancing Christ's crown and covenant over the kings of the earth. Puritan Reformed Church. Believe, build, fight.
Puritan PHX dot com.
Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.
He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big, penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the Internet where folk won't be led astray.
I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise. And yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time. And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.
I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?
I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio dot com, where you can click support. That's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio dot com.
Hello, my name is Anthony Uvinio, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corum, New York, and also the host of the Reform Rookie dot com website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the Apple's iTunes app by typing Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in the search bar.
You no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work. Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show at any time, day or night.
Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnzen has on the show. Truth is so hard to come by these days.
So don't waste your time with fluff or fake news. Subscribe to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio podcast right now. And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the Reform Rookie dot com podcast and visit our website and the YouTube page.
We are dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a Reformed Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith, as well as seasoned believers from Keech's Catechism and the doctrines of grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus.
The Reform Rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth. And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, New York.
Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Avinio, and thanks for listening.
Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love, Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.
It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word, and to enthusiastically proclaim Christ Jesus, the King, and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.
I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have. For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.
That's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711. That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.
Iron Sharpens Iron radio first launched in 2005. The publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron radio audience have been sticking with, or switching to, the NASB.
I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmont and Ironworks, New Hampshire, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Suley Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor John Samson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Steve Hereford of East Fort Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Roy Owens, Jr. of the Church in Friendship in Hockley, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB. And tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnson on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.
Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts, Long Island Youth for Christ, staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus.
We are rural and urban, and we are always about the message of Jesus. Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York, by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following Christ.
Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959. We have a world-class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world.
Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future. Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above. For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333. That's 631 -385 -8333, or visit liyfc .org.
That's liyfc .org.
Greetings. This is Brian McLaughlin, president of the SecureComm group and supporter of Chris Arnzen's Iron Shopping Zion radio program. SecureComm provides the highest level of security systems for residential buildings, municipalities, churches, commercial properties, and much more.
We can be reached at securecommgroup .com. That's securecommgroup .com. But today I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.
Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur. In the film, Chariots of Fire, the Olympic gold medalist runner, Eric Liddell, remarked that he felt God's pleasure when he ran.
He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God. I sensed that same God-given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God, that love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a savior who died for sinners, and that God forgives all who come to him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.
I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church, visit nhpbc .com.
That's nhpbc .com. You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672. That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's word and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.
Chris Arnzen here. I am forever grateful to Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service for their generous financial support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, but that's not the only reason I love them. CVBBS .com carries the finest in theologically reformed literature from 16th century classics like Calvin's Institutes, 17th and 18th century Puritan treasures like the works of Jonathan Edwards, 19th century volumes by the Prince of Preachers, Charles Spurgeon, all the way up to the 21st century with the best of R .C. Sproul, Steve Lawson, Votie Baucom, and more.
On top of their stellar book selection, CVBBS .com offers up to 50 off retail prices with an added 5 off for orders of $50 or more when using the promo code iron, visit CVBBS .com today and use promo code iron.
That's CVBBS .com enriching minds and maintaining the theologically reformed influence of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio through their financial support. Now shipping worldwide. Welcome back. I want to remind our listeners that this program is paid for in part by the law firm of Buttafuoco and Associates.
If you are the victim of a very serious personal injury or medical malpractice anywhere in the United States, call the law firm of Buttafuoco and Associates where my friend Dan Buttafuoco for many years, uh, serves as the lead attorney.
Uh, call them at 1 -800-NOW-HURT 1 -800-NOW-HURT or visit their website 1 -800-NOW-HURT .com 1 -800-NOW-HURT .com. I want to thank Dan Buttafuoco for funding in part the upcoming Iron Sharpens Iron Radio free pastors luncheon.
Uh, one of the reasons that, uh, I am able to conduct these biannual free pastors luncheons absolutely free is because of the financial help of folks like Dan Buttafuoco attorney at law. And if you are a man in ministry leadership, you're invited to the next Iron Sharpens Iron Radio free pastors luncheon on Thursday, June the 6th, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. featuring for the very first time as our keynote speaker, Dr. Joel Beakey, founder and president of Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
And not only is admission free and not only is your lunch free, uh, but everyone in attendance is going to receive a very heavy sack of free brand new books personally selected by me and donated by Christian publishers all over the United States and United Kingdom.
So you can't beat that deal. If you're able to get to Perry County, Pennsylvania on Thursday, June 6th, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. and you're a man in ministry leadership, please be there. Send me an email to register at chrisarnson at gmail .com.
Chrisarnson at gmail .com and put pastors luncheon in the subject line. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com pastors luncheon and the subject line. And remember it's absolutely free. We are now back with Angus Stewart and we have been discussing the abomination of desolation.
And I was wondering what books you might be able to recommend that are, uh, compatible with your specific view of the abomination of desolation.
Chris, you might be surprised to learn that when I researched this topic, that I didn't find one particularly good book from any perspective, eschatological view. Uh, but we have, we have a good work here by Reverend Martin McGowan called to watch for Christ's return, which deals with Matthew 24 and 25.
And there's a good chapter in there. On, uh, the abomination of desolation. Uh, professor Engelsman has two works on eschatology volume one and volume two, the church's hope. The reform doctrine of the end is a good treatment, a good treatment in, in there.
Various commentaries on Daniel EJ young Joyce Baldwin. There's some fascinating material in a more secular work, but, uh, Bernard McGinn's antichrist 2000 years of the human fascination with, with evil.
Some very interesting historical material there on Matthew 24, Christ's spiritual kingdom by prof Engelsman, the right interpretation of the Olivet discourse via V preterism and post-millennialism. Uh, and there are some good insights in beads commentary on, on, on revelation.
There, uh, Chris, I thought I'd just, just throw that one in Chris. I should add at this point, though, a member of our church column, uh, he says the shrupture slasher, uh, it was a cartoon, but it was Daffy duck.
Oh, not bugs. Bonnie, I thought you'd appreciate that.
Yes, I do.
It's important to get our theology, right. And even our cartoons.
Well, you've got to have them show you the clip. Uh, I guess it's on YouTube or something. Um, go ahead.
Chris, could I, could I throw in a couple of points from the new Testament on the importance of the abomination of desolation that I haven't mentioned yet? I think your readers will, your listeners will enjoy this.
The feast of dedication is mentioned in John 10 verse 22. It was the rededication of the temple in Jerusalem after its profanation and the abomination of desolation with Antiochus Epiphanes the fourth in the second century BC.
And Jesus is in Jerusalem in John 10 22 at the temple. And Jesus, as it were, talks about the right way to cleanse God's temple, to, to, to have the people of God worshiping right. And he talks about what's in effect, the doctrines of grace.
My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me. But he said to the reprobate, ye believe not because ye are not of my sheep. And earlier in the same chapter, he says, I am the good shepherd and I lay down my life for the sheep.
In fact, all of the five points of Calvinism are taught in John 10, a chapter, which mentions the feast of dedication. This is how we really, uh, cleanse the temple of the people of God with sound doctrine.
And there's this too, Acts 15, the well-known Jerusalem council. There were four things that that council said that should be done as an act of charity and past part of Christian liberty, including abstaining from the pollution of idols and from things strangled and from blood.
And part of the Jewish sensibility with these things was, because it was just over a couple of hundred years ago at this Jerusalem council, Acts 15 was the profanation of the temple, making people eat unclean meats and blood sacrifices that weren't of the clean creatures as prescribed by the law.
And then with a view to positivity, Chris, this Antiochus Epiphanies, the fourth, this type of Antichrist and the one who brought in the first abomination of desolation, he was based with a name like Antiochus Epiphanies.
He was based in Antioch in Syria. And the book of Acts tells us that that was the place where believers were first called Christians in the very base of a man who's a type of the Antichrist. And the apostle Paul went out on his first, second and third missionary journeys from Antioch, so.
Antioch, the Jerusalem council, the Feast of Dedication and John 10 are all things which benefit from an understanding of the abomination of desolation in the book of Daniel, I thought that would be worthwhile for for our listeners tonight.
Yes, definitely helpful. We have excuse me, we have a listener in Casper, Wyoming, and the listener's name is Baron and Baron asks, do the three forms of unity which you mentioned at the beginning of the program, are your doctrinal standard at your church, get anywhere near specific about the abomination of desolation?
And does it also require a specific eschatological view at all? May people of all of the major eschatological views claim the three forms of unity as their own.
The three forms of unity do not mention the abomination of desolation, and the four volumes of the Reformed Confessions of the 16th and 17th century, wonderful books edited by James Dennison, Jr. We could only find a couple of references to it through the texts.
The abomination of desolation has not really been treated in creedal documents. The closest and fullest treatment of eschatology in the three forms of unity is Belgic Confession Article 37, the last article which deals with the end times, especially in terms of the renewal of the world, the final judgment.
It mentions persecution and hardships for God's people. The Heidelberg Catechism in various places, especially in its interpretation of several articles in the Apostles' Creed, speaks similarly. It's clear there's only one second coming.
There's one resurrection of the dead. There's no millennium. And the people of God suffer in this world, a world under curse and sin, and look up for hope of the second coming of Jesus Christ, who is our only comfort.
Chris, we're short of time. I would like to throw this in, if I may.
Yeah, you could throw in anything you'd like.
Chris, thank you. I've been talking about the abomination of desolation in the second century B .C., the first century A .D., and in the future. Briefly, the application of the abomination of desolation in our day, because there were things, abominations, brought into churches which make the churches worship desolate and drive out true believers.
The baptism of dogs and cats. People skateboarding down the aisle, ministers. This is going on in churches in the British Isles. People preaching salvation by man's free will. Justification by works. Jesus said, Luke 16, verse 15, ye are they which justify yourselves before men.
But God knoweth your hearts, for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. There's the abomination of desolation in a lesser form. This is an application of it. Women ministers.
I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over a man. First Timothy 2. How could a Christian go there? Get out and take your family out. Leviticus 18, verse 22 and 20, verse 13 calls homosexuality an abomination.
Cross dressing is an abomination. Deuteronomy 22, verse 5. And when you see a church, which is LGBT ministers and flags outside, they may as well have the abomination of desolation in there because there's no fear of God.
There's no truth. They've converted themselves to apostasy and wickedness. Idolatry and interfaith. Because the number one use of the word abomination in the Bible is idolatry. Ezekiel 8 talks about four great abominations in the temple, which caused God to leave in Ezekiel 10, the mass worldliness.
So there's fascinating history. There's really important eschatology. And this is really practical for the people of God. Avoid the abomination of desolation. And the presence of Jesus Christ brings blessing in the church.
Pursue him and follow the truth.
Amen. Well, I know one thing for certain is I'm definitely pulling my poodle out of confirmation class. I'm just kidding. You know, I know a man who is a Church of England rector. And he was at one time very sound theologically, adhered to the 39 articles of religion and so on.
Very reformed. But then I heard years ago that sadly he caved in and started to bless animals. Well, not actually baptizing, like you said, but and I and I tried to lay that aside in my head as as bizarre as that is.
But then it got worse. I don't know what his beliefs are or if he just did this out of fear, but he actually had a lesbian bishop preach from his pulpit. And that devastated me. And I called him several times for an explanation and never returned my call.
Very, very tragic. Well, I want to make sure that our listeners have the website for Covenant Protestant Reformed Church in Ballymena, Northern Ireland. It is CPRC .co .uk. CPRC .co .uk. I also want to remind our listeners, please continue praying for baby Rebecca Hope, who was born today, the granddaughter of my dear friend, Dr. Joe Moorcraft and his wife, Becky.
Rebecca Hope is only a little over three pounds and has a heart condition that may prove to be fatal. So please pray for this little child. And also remember, if you're a man in ministry leadership and you would like to attend my next free biannual Iron Trepans Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon on Thursday, June the 6th, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. in Perry County, Pennsylvania, featuring Dr. Joel Beakey, please send me an email to register at chrisarnson at gmail dot com and put Pastor's Luncheon in the subject line.
Everything is absolutely free of charge. I want to thank you again, Pastor Angus. You did a remarkable job, as I knew you would. I look forward to your return to the show. I want to thank all of our listeners, especially those who took the time to write.
I hope you all have a very safe and blessed and joyful and Christ honoring weekend and Lord's Day. And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater savior than you are a sinner.