Should Christians Celebrate Halloween & Churches Hold Trunk or Treat Events? Jason Farley #DMW243

To celebrate Halloween or not to celebrate Halloween? That is the question. Stick around. Exploring theology, doctrine, and all of the fascinating subjects in between, broadcasting from an undisclosed location, Dead Men Walking starts now.

Oh, well, hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast. I'm your host, Craig Moore. You can find out more about us, dmwpodcast .com, or check us out on the socials, deadmenwalkingpodcast on Twitter, xatreal, dmwpodcast.

Welcome back to another episode, guys. Yeah, had a good one. Sat down with Jason Farley this week. He's at Lord TV. He's a poet, author, creator. Has a sub stack that's awesome, a podcast that's awesome.

And he was arguing in the affirmative for the celebration of Halloween as Christian, the celebration of trunk or treat if you're a church. And I was kind of arguing in the negative, taking the other side of that and asking some questions.

And when I say arguing, I'm just saying having a friendly discussion about. Jason Farley's been on the podcast before, years ago. I mean, when we first started, maybe in the first year, and then I think one more time, two years ago.

So it's been a couple of years since he's been on. But always good to see that brother. And we just had a really good 45 minute, 50 minute conversation on the history of Halloween. Is it pagan? Is it Christian?

What it looked like for the reformers? What it looked like for the colonists in early America? What it then looked like in the early 20th century and currently what it looks like. Then we went into, is it biblically permissible?

Is it a Christian conscience issue? Why would we celebrate it? I brought up some points about wanting to see Hallow's Eve and even All Saints Day, November 1st being restored to its original meeting, reformed and then restored.

He agreed with that, but I think we came at it at different ways on how we can do that. I had more of a stance of, well, let's not participate in those things and actually restore and redeem it to what it was by worshiping and reflecting Christ and honoring the martyrs that came before us.

He took a different approach and said, look it, to be effective, you can't abstain from something because that's retreating. And we don't retreat, we go into other spaces and we reform it that way. And I came back and said, well, I don't know if we necessarily say that abstaining from something means we're retreating.

The Puritans came up, things like that. So it was a really good discussion. Jason always has very good points. He knows his history. He definitely knows his culture, both secular, pagan and Christian culture.

And we talked about it. And I think we had some common ground. We agreed on a lot more stuff than I thought we would, but we disagreed in some points as well too. And I think it's a good discussion for you guys, the listeners to listen to, if you're one of those people who are on one side or the other of celebrating or not celebrating, abstaining or taking part in Halloween, or if you're on the fence and you're going like, well, what are the reasons here?

What are the biblical reasons? What are the historical reasons? Maybe what are some Christian conscience issues that I could have or couldn't have about celebrating or not celebrating? So overall, I think it was a very good discussion.

I think you guys are gonna like it. And it's always a joy to have Jason on. So I'm not gonna keep you too much longer. When you're listening to this, we will be, well, no, it'll still be about a week away from leaving for Fight, Laugh, Feast, but I'm kind of pre-recording some episodes so that we can bring you some live content going into the first week of November with the Fight, Laugh, Feast conference, Prodigal America.

So a couple of these things might not be timestamped appropriate. Does that make sense? I might say something in an episode and you go, wait a minute, what? That was two weeks ago or something. Because we're pre-recording this week for a couple episodes dropping in October.

But have some good guests coming up too. So look forward to that. So guys, next voice you'll hear is gonna be, next two voices are gonna be me and Jason talking about celebrating Halloween. Here we go.

Jason Farley's View of Halloween as a Christian Holiday

All right, we're rolling. Jason Farley, good to have you back on the podcast, brother. How you doing? Good to be here, yeah. Having a good time. Yeah, so how's everything going for you? Introduce yourself to the listeners.

You haven't been on in a couple years, I don't think. So reintroduce yourself to the new listeners since then, who you are, what you're about, what your origin story is, what you got going on right now.

Origin story, that's a good question. That one I'd have to think through. But Jason Farley, I've been, I've done a lot of different things from pastor to screenwriter to comedy writer to working in classical Christian education, film distribution, all sorts of things.

So right now I'm working with Lore TV and Concordia Education Services, working at two different spots with the two things I love the most, which are movies and television and classical education. So I'm blessed to get to do a bunch of things.

So you're good times. Yeah, we need solid brothers in the Lord working in entertainment and education because the left has totally attacked those two. And I think dominate them in the last 50, 60 years, maybe going back farther than that, wouldn't you say?

Absolutely, they've dominated. And they've dominated because of our retreat, not because they have been super smart and figured it all out and overcome everything. The church just retreated from certain things.

And when we retreat, it leaves a void that gives the left an opportunity to take over.

You are so right because you look at some of the product that the left puts out and you go, how is this even, A, making money, B, being created, C, being watched, D, being supported. It's like, artistically, it's just horrible.

I had the guys, Parker Brown from Watch Well Podcast, which is a new podcast. And what they do is they have you watch a movie and then they discuss the implications of it. I think you'd be a great guest on that.

I should hook you up. They go in depth. They go in depth on it, like what's the character of God here? What's the motivation of the characters? What's the underlying principles? And we both agreed, same thing.

It's just complete garbage what the left is putting out in the way of all types of art. And the ones that do break through, guess what? Holy cow, they have a very declined sense of justice, righteousness, evil, you know what I mean?

Justice prevailing over evil. And you're like, oh, people still like that. Even the secularists understand the reality in which God has created and we live. Those things are true and beautiful, you know?

Yeah, reality has, when you make art that reflects reality back to people, it resonates. And so even when, because the principles of storytelling are out there and available. So even when, you know, somebody that doesn't know the Lord is using them, they end up telling, you can end up telling a really great story.

It just, that still serves the audience. No, absolutely. And we look at, we could sit here and talk about that for an hour.

Because that's very interesting when I talked about that stuff. But we came here for something else, kind of the way of art a little bit. No, that's not really a good segue. We'll say it is. We're talking about Halloween.

I've had so many people reach out to me and go, Greg, over the last four and a half years in the podcast, you've kind of just interjected your thoughts a little bit, but really haven't expanded on it about Halloween.

I'm someone who doesn't celebrate Halloween. Now, I will have about 150 people over here on, well, usually on Reformation Day, we do a party. This year, I'll be at Fight, Laugh, Feast for Reformation Day.

So we're doing it a week early. But we've chosen to celebrate that way. And, you know, I don't, it's crazy because, well, it's not crazy, but it's tough because if you say that, hey, we choose not to celebrate Halloween or trunk or tree.

I get put into a category of like, you're this crazy legalist. You hate Christians who do. And it's like, well, no, I don't. I really look at it as a Christian conscious choice. I've just been convicted that for me, it's probably not the best for me and my family.

And I have some reasons. I wanted to have you on because I think, I don't know what your personal belief is, but I think you're gonna kind of be, maybe take the other side of that. Well, first, let's start with that.

What is your personal belief in celebrating Halloween as a Christian and even churches using it as an outreach ministry, like what's your personal, and then maybe go into why, how you could see someone defending that point of view of being able to celebrate that.

Yeah, cause I'm pro-Halloween. I'll take the pro-Halloween side of things. I believe that it is a Christian holiday in its origin. And there's, in the same way that non-Christians try to co-op Christmas and kind of give it its own meaning, a meaning apart from Christ, I think the same sort of thing has been done to Halloween.

It's just been a little bit more successful in the last few years than Christmas, but that Halloween is actually in origin and is objectively a Christian holiday.

The Origins of All Saints Day and Hallow's Eve

So let's talk about origin, because I've seen a lot of stuff over the years where people say, well, we're divided. Was it pagan? Was it Christian? We don't really know. It can be argued either way. My belief of it is when I look at it, I kind of see we have some good evidence for around that time, a Celtic festival a couple thousand years ago, there was all kinds of celebrations going on.

Now, I don't know if we can connect those two. I'll give you that. There was a whole lot of seasonal change celebrations going on in the pagan, right? Rome had theirs. When they took over the Celtics, added a few.

But at the same time, then I see a shift in Pope Gregory III and making it All Saints Day and Halloween start and Hallow's Eve start to take shape. So where do you kind of lay on the short history of Hallow's Eve, which is now Halloween?

Yeah, so I believe that 19th century romantics made up Celtic holidays in order to try to connect them to Halloween because they wanted Halloween without Jesus. So they did the same thing with trying to connect Christmas to pagan holidays.

They did the same thing with trying to connect Easter to pagan holidays, but there actually isn't historical evidence. Okay. We don't really know much about the Druids in terms of getting actually direct evidence for what they are.

We've got some Christians that mention the Druids and say things about the Druids, but we don't really know much about what they did, what they believed, that sort of thing. But in the 19th century, the romantic movements that were trying to connect, especially the German romantics, were trying to reconnect to some sort of mythic pagan past.

And one of the things that they did was try to find the secret origins of Christian holidays that Christians had taken over so that they could keep the holidays, but without Jesus. So I think that's actually where all of those arguments originate is really you start to get them in the late romantic movement.

Okay. So here's the thing that I always fight, and I think most critical thinkers will fight. First of all, you have to be willing to concede a point if it's not going to be, what's the word I'm looking for?

Consistent across all. Because in my early 20s, Lord saved me. I start getting into all kinds of reading and studying the Bible and all this stuff. And what do I go to, man? I go to right towards Catholicism is straight from the pit of hell.

And also, man, all these traditions we have are right from pagans anyway, and we just copied them. And my kind of immature, just zeal cage stage. Then you realize for Christmas, that's a lie. Just like you said.

So I will concede Halloween being connected to paganism because we've been lied to by the pagans that, hey, no, this was really ours. And you guys just copied it. If you really look into that, probably my late 20s, I changed my tune and said, oh, I was just kind of wanting to believe in something because it fit my narrative for that time.

That I could start calling out against religion and all these things that's wrong with the church and stuff like that. So that would be my first concession is saying, I'm not 100 sold on that. And if I want to be consistent between Christmas and Halloween, I would say that.

I would say, you can't say that some random seasonal celebration which they had many of them to many pagan gods is directly related to why we celebrate Halloween. So with that being said, then my next question is I go, okay, so when did it start in history, start becoming a celebration within the Christian tradition?

And I would say, where do you think we start seeing, not the modern Halloween, because that's only been, we'll get on it, but it's only been around 50 years, maybe 1920s, 1930s, when we saw it commercialized how it is now.

But when did we first start seeing in the church a Hallow's Eve and that 31st and the first kind of becoming important to Christians?

The Martyrs, the Church Calendar, and the Meaning of All Saints Day

Yeah, so Pope Gregory in the 800s, the Pope Gregory of the 800s is the one who, I can't remember which number, it might be the third, starts putting forward or he puts forward All Saints Day as a celebration of the martyrs and so when you start getting to a point where martyrs aren't, martyrdom isn't really happening anymore because the martyrs won, right?

We look back at somebody like Polycarp and nobody actually remembers the name of the incredibly powerful Roman governor who killed him, but everybody remembers the name of Polycarp, right? So Polycarp won, the martyrs won, the martyrs overcame the people that were opposing the church and so Pope Gregory puts forward a celebration saying let's celebrate the way that the martyrs have overcome the devil's kingdom, have overcome the rule of the devil through self-sacrifice, right?

So it's a celebration of the reality that like Romans 16 says that God will soon crush Satan underneath your feet, that the church's feet are devil-crushing feet and the way that it's gone forward when we come in contact with persecutors, we overcome by laying down our lives and so that was the original intention as a celebration that it was the celebration of the overcoming of the works of the devil by means of martyrdom and if you look at calendars or at clocks really, you have in the Old Testament, you start at the evening when you're counting the day, in the Roman Empire, you started at midnight, right?

And so what you ended up with was when you had medieval or I mean Middle Eastern Christians and Roman Empire Christians start intertwining, intermarrying the when do you start the celebration of a festival debate begins whether it's the morning of or the evening of, when does the day start?

So what they started doing basically to compromise was say, well, we'll just stretch our celebration to 36 hours, right? Which I think makes complete reasonable sense, we'll just celebrate twice and so you start getting Christmas Eve and Christmas, you start getting All Hallows Eve and All Hallows Day, hallow meaning saint, holy ones.

So All Hallows Eve is the beginning of the celebration of All Saints Day, which is a celebration of the overcoming of death by death, the overcoming of death by self-sacrifice and that celebrating kind of that principle.

So All Hallows Eve is the beginning of the celebration of All Saints Day, we end up separating it out as its own thing, October 31st, because just in the modern world, we don't have that same sun down as the beginning of the next day.

You still, if you have Jewish friends, you'll see that they still reckon time that way in their religious calendar. So it is around a little bit, but in the West, for the most part, midnight is when the next day starts.

Trick-or-Treating, Costumes, and the Church's Converting Impulse

Yeah, all right, so where I'm at in my headspace and you tell me what you think of this, I kind of take the pagan argument and I just go, okay, could be, couldn't be, I think it's a cheap, lazy argument that really doesn't have a whole lot of validity.

So I kind of look at it and I go, okay, the real first time we see prominence of the date, October 31st and November 1st, even being prevalent, is 734 under Pope Gregory III. So then my mind goes to, okay, so in that generation or even the next few hundred years, how is that celebrated and how was that viewed?

How was that day viewed? And obviously it's not what we're doing today. I think it's totally different. But even then I have some conflicting reports there. You will have, oh, well, some people dressed up and to ward off spirits.

It was like to mock almost the spirits that couldn't touch Christ's anointed and things like that. And what I've come to is it's kind of convoluted because it crosses so many different cultures. Even when you get into like 16th, 1700s, as people coming over to America, you had the Scottish and the Irish and all these different kind of customs around that time and that date being brought together and it kind of made this convoluted thing.

And I think that's kind of how Christmas is. Even to this day, we have 10 different cultures going on. We still bob for apples on the 31st, which some would say goes back to the Romans and the goddess of the fruit tree that was introduced after Rome kind of Christianized.

There's an argument there and you go, oh, there's all this stuff. So I look at it and go, we are a cross-cultural celebration now in 2024, but at 700s, 800s into the first of the 10th century, what did that look like for those who celebrated on the 31st?

Yeah, so I like the way the comparison to Christmas because when you look at Santa Claus, for example, Santa Claus is actually the mashing together of multiple traditions. When all of these Europeans that spoke different languages all landed America and meet each other at church and start intermarrying.

And one of the things that I love about the impulse of the church throughout history is to just take all of it every time. So you'd say, oh, they do this, they do that, they do this. And Christians have gone, oh, great, we can do all of that, right?

We can just kind of put it all together. That impulse is I think a converting impulse that the church has always brought with it, that it doesn't just think in terms of, that it always thinks in terms of getting hold of everything and submitting it to Christ.

How do we convert everything that we run into? That there's not kind of a religious sphere over here where religious stuff happens, but it's always saying, well, how do we take whatever we find and convert it to Christ and put it through the fire of the gospel and find what lasts?

And so things like trick-or-treating, you actually have a couple of different traditions in trick-or-treating that end up coming together and becoming what we think of as trick-or-treating because you had the same way that we, at Christmas, a group of people might travel around and sing house to house.

That was something that you did at All Saints Day was the singing house to house. And part of that tradition was, if you would sing house to house and then they would give the singers a small cake or a cupcake at each house.

And so they would gather up sweets as they went. So that was one tradition that happened throughout Europe. And then you had, there was one other aspect that became trick-or-treating that had to do with the poor.

So the poor, one of the ways that it was alms giving, and it was, so the poor were given, were told to go house to house for alms on All Saints Day. So one of the ways that you worshiped or set aside the day was by making sweets, making cakes, making candies for the poor, and they would go house to house and you would pass it out as part of the, just the realization that we're all beggars.

And so you kind of, on All Saints Day, the beggar becomes the one who gets the best, right? That that's part of the tradition of All Saints Day. And yeah, well, so those sorts of traditions slowly morph into trick-or-treating.

And the other thing that we forget is they used to dress up for a lot of the holidays in the Middle Ages, and we only dress up for one, but there was a lot of costume dress-up, that sort of thing in the Middle Ages, and we do a lot less than they did.

So it looks like a strange thing when you only do it on one day versus when you have lots of dress-up opportunities in the Middle Ages.

So you're saying they were into cosplay in 800 AD, huh?

Cosplay is one of the most medieval things.

Christian Freedom, Conscience, and the Church Calendar

Okay, so let's get to the question. We did a little bit of the history and just expand on that. Then we see, the funny thing was, I was talking to someone once and I said, well, I would like to celebrate Halloween and how the reformers celebrated Halloween.

I mean, Luther celebrated Halloween. He went and nailed the 95 Theses to the door, right? He knew All Saints Day was gonna be a high-traffic day for the church, and they kind of looked at me and went, that's a weird way to frame it.

But in my mind, I go, that's kind of what he was doing. I bet you there was something there like, we got this great holiday coming up that we celebrate. Boom, I'm gonna put them there, right? So in my mind, I go, why can't we celebrate Halloween in that way?

That's kind of where I'm coming from. I don't wanna mimic the world. I don't want appearances of evil. I don't wanna bow to the culture. And in my mind, I think it's lazy of the Christian that goes, ah, it's just candy.

Come on, they're dressing up as goofy ghosts and princesses and Disney princesses. And then of course, I have to go on with my tirade about Disney to a parent, which that's 20 minutes. But my point is, is I'm not necessarily going to the Bible and saying you cannot celebrate Halloween because the Bible says it right here, right?

I would never say that. I think that would be a little too legalistic and religious in the negative connotation of religious. So let's get to the question that everyone listening wants to know is two questions.

One, is it biblically permissible for a Christian to celebrate Halloween? And when I say that in the context of trick-or-treating, dressing up on the 31st, going door-to-door, hey neighbor, how you doing?

And getting candy. And then two, what about churches celebrating it in the way of like trunk-or-treat or having some type of event for mission outreach or whatever they say? Those two questions, where do you land on that?

Yeah, so I think it's biblically permissible to join in with your neighbors. And there would be things that I would say, well, don't do that or don't do that. There would be costumes that I would say, that's not the way a Christian should dress, costume-wise, right?

There's some, I think wisdom issues within there and then the directing of your children's imagination in the costuming, that sort of thing. Those are things that I think that a Christian parent should be attentive to and trying to use in a purposeful way to help their kids understand who they are in Christ, that sort of thing.

But I think it's permissible to join in with your neighbors and be a part of the festivities. One of the things that I always did, I don't have any kids young enough to trick-or-treat anymore, but one of the things that I always did was got a couple of flasks and filled them with whiskey and rum and brought a little stack of cups.

And then any dad I saw coming past would say, hey, can I fill you up, right? Can I fill you up some? And it was a great opportunity to meet neighbors and get to know everybody in the neighborhood. And because there's the dads that are out walking their kids door-to-door are, they're your neighbors.

There's not very many opportunities where you're all out in the street together, right? So there's some great opportunities, I think, on the family side as well to think of it in terms of how do I get to know my neighbors?

How do I get out there? And then just the general joy and picture of the smallest and youngest and the least deserving of us getting the best door-to-door. I mean, that's a picture of the gospel that I think we should be able to just rejoice in and enjoy, hey, can I have some candy, please?

I didn't do anything for it. It was like, oh, that reminds me of my salvation. What a great moment. So I think for families, it's biblically permissible in my mind. And then I think churches do have an opportunity, but one of the things that we have done is we've separated the church calendar from worship.

And I think that's actually our biggest opportunity as a church is to try to restore the worship services that were attached to all of these different holidays. I mean, I've seen now, there was a church, I can't remember if it was two years ago, the canceled church on a Sunday because Christmas fell on a Sunday and Christmas is for family time.

Don't get me started on that. Right, no. But you go, okay, the reason that All Saints Day has been detached in the mind of the culture is not because the pagans did some incredible end run around it and won it.

We walked away from it. We stepped back from it. Yeah, we stepped back from it. We stopped having All Saints Day worship services, having church be at the center of the festivals of our culture. So I think church or the families have, they have biblical permissibility to do something like that.

I think the church ought to be actually trying to recover its historic calendar that walks you through the gospel, that it memorializes the gospel in time, year after year after year, memorializes the life and work of Christ and the life and work of the church through the power of the Holy Spirit.

I think we've walked away from the church calendar and that's the reason that Halloween has been, now I think the best argument against Halloween is the fact that they cut down the bronze pole that Moses put up when they started misusing it, right?

That bronze pole, Jesus says, that points to me, right? That bronze pole points to me and it's still pointed to him and they still cut it down when they misused it. I think that's the best argument against celebrating Halloween is something can be good in origin and be currently being misused.

And it's, and so you decide I'm not gonna be a part of it because it's being misused. I think that's fine. So I think if that's how a family is thinking about it, I think you're well within your Christian freedom to not celebrate Halloween and to make, for that sort of reason.

But I do think that the church ought to be actively trying to win back the calendar.

Restoring Halloween Instead of Seceding to Secularism

Okay, so this is just irritating because we are agreeing much more than I thought we would be. I think we're just coming from it from two different angles. I agree with everything you say there. And let me just tell you where I'm at.

So when I talk to a Christian that either celebrates Halloween or does trunk or treat or what part of their church, whatever, I just say, I get frustrated because there's a difference between restore and redeem in my mind.

And then two, I look at it in context of where we are in the last 50 or 60 years. Like you just said, it's been supplanted. You also mentioned, hey, look at, we should be restoring Hallow's Eve. And I think we're trying to do a little too much redeeming.

And I think there's a difference there. I'm saying restoring it to its original intent and meaning and things like that. When I talk to most Christians and I don't wanna generalize here, but when I talk to most believers, especially in the evangelical church, Western Christianity in general, across multiple states, it's almost like a laziness.

It's like, well, it's just, it's fun. It's not really hurting anything, right? And when I talk to churches and leaders and look at, I love my pastors, I love my elders, I love my church, I'm a member there.

We will do a trunk or treat event. My family's not going and I'm fine with that. We'll be doing other things. That's fine. But my point is, is I look at it like this, Jason, and you tell me if this makes sense.

I look at it as Halloween has been co-opted. It has been taken. It has a different meaning. We have, you know, I just watched, I don't know, she's a fourth generation witch on YouTube. And she's like, oh, I'm so happy for Halloween.

And this is what it really means, all that crap. That's their day of celebration. We're out dressing up and trick or treating and all these things. Yes, it's all these different things coming together, traditions.

My point is, is why secede to the secular culture anymore as a church or as an individual? I want to totally restore Hallow's Eve. I love the idea of honoring those who, like you said earlier in the episode, came before us and died and basically won by being martyred.

And I look at it, and I'm kind of this way in politics, if I contribute to that and slip into those and go, well, it's not really harming anyone. It is permissible. It's not like, you know, God's up, you're going to hell because you dressed up as, you know, princess, whoever.

I say, why is the church and why are the individuals kind of bowing to that culture and going, well, it's just one more thing that we can do and kind of blend in. And it loses some of our set apartness, some of our holiness, some of our, hold on a minute.

If we got the majority of churches to go, no, we're going to worship on Hallow's Eve into the 1st of November. We're going to honor God through how he honored martyrs in those things and really connected it and reflected it to Christ and the martyrs and all that.

I would be totally on board. That's one of the reasons why I do Reformation Day because I feel that's more honorable for me at this point than it is for my kids dressing up and going to get candy. And here's what I would say to Christians very quickly.

They go, ah, they get some candy, they can dress. My kids can dress up and get candy any day of the year they want. They want to go get a Buzz Lightyear costume and I throw some Snickers at them. We limit their sugar intake anyway, but point being I'll do that any day of the year.

But on the day that the world says this is the day we celebrate evil or at least the seculars do. Now we've discussed where the past is and what it really means and everything. But the overwhelming majority idea of the secular world in America is, hey, we get to be a little naughty.

We get to be a little slutty. We get to dress up as evil. We get to celebrate horror films, slasher films. I mean, it's all really gotten very dark. I say I'm abstaining from that because I want to totally restore and redeem Hallow's Eve.

And I feel by contributing to that, I'm going that's just one more Christian kind of giving in and going, ah, what's the big deal? It has some Christian roots. It's not, right? So maybe I'm an extremist on that, but that's what I would tell to a Christian who does celebrate it.

I would say, think about that Christian. Can we be holy and set apart? And by our own virtue of being stubborn on this issue, maybe in 20, 30, 40 years, our children will be going, look at those weirdos that put masks on instead of going to church, having a feast and worshiping God for a day of martyrs and all that.

Does that make sense?

It does, yeah. And I think as long as you aren't setting it up such that your kids are wishing they were a part of that, right, if your kids are sitting there saying, man, I wish I got to be a part of that, that looks way better than whatever it is we do, right?

Then I think I don't have any problem with what it is you said. I just think we should be out celebrating them if we're going to abstain in a set apart way, right? Whatever it is, if you're having a Reformation Day feast, then it should be so much better that everybody is saying, man, they're missing out by missing this, right?

That we want our kids always to be saying, man, I wish everybody got to have what I get, right? By being raised in a Christian home. And I think that is, that's something that I do think that a lot of the abstain, and I'm not, this isn't an accusation against you, but there's things I've seen of the abstain from Halloween crowd has a way of making it the worst night of the year because everybody else gets something I don't.

And I don't think that's necessary. I think you can, you know, I have been at churches that threw great Reformation Day parties on that night and nobody ever felt like I'm missing out because I don't get to do Halloween.

And I think we have the freedom to do that sort of thing. Institutionally, I think the church has a, they're not free to not transform the calendar. The church as an institution needs to have its institutional calendar actually being transformed and submitted to Christ.

And you can't do that by not doing stuff. You can only do that by doing things, right? How do, so the church needs to be saying that we, our job as an institution is to use whatever calendar events are coming up to submit time to Christ.

You know, how do we do that as an institution? And I think not doing something in place of, not, I guess, not doing things purposefully calendar-wise doesn't do that. I mean, I think families as institutions, they've got, you know, freedom.

They're under all kinds of different calendars. You know, they're under the church calendar, they're under the federal calendar, you know, the state calendar, all of the different calendars and they have freedom to partake or not partake as long as they're doing it on purpose to glorify the Lord.

Now, that's a good point.

A Christian Vision for All Hallows' Day and Memorializing the Dead

So let me ask you this then. So what would your ideal celebration be as a believer on October 31st? What would it look like to you, to honor Christ, to honor the church, to honor each other, believers, and be a witness to an unbelieving world?

Would it look like how it is now or would it be restored to something different? What do you think it would look like to you?

Yeah, well, I think the, first off, I think I would love All Hallows' Day, right, to All Saints' Day, to actually have, to restore a worship service of some sort, a worship service that had, or a memorial service, maybe not, unless it's on a Sunday, maybe not do the Lord's Supper, but have a memorial service of some sort where we sing older hymns, maybe the normal, the hymns that we don't sing, but that are from, you know, like, let's say we're gonna pick the Martyrs of France, right?