WWUTT 2415 Q&A Will We See the Holy Spirit, Is Racism Growing, Questions for Pastor Candidates

Will we see the Holy Spirit when we get to heaven? Is racism on the rise in the church in America and how should we respond to it? And what are some good questions to ask of elder candidates? The answers to these questions, When We Understand the Text.

This is When We Understand the Text, a daily Bible commentary to help encourage your time in the Word, brought to you by Providence Reformed Baptist Church in Casa Grande, Arizona. For more information about our ministry, go to www .utt .com.

Here once again is Pastor Gabe.

Thank you, Becky.

You're welcome.

We've got this gnat bugging around in here. How long until this thing becomes annoying and...

Well, I guess if everybody hears a clap, you know that we tried to kill it.

It's going to be another one of those episodes where the outtake of the end is me chasing the fly around the room.

At least you can't hear it buzzing.

Yeah.

Oh, boy.

I remember that one.

That was a big fly. And it would like dive bomb us.

That's like a What? Podcast memory right there.

Yeah.

That was hilarious.

Okay.

Wisdom, Sluggards, and the Fear of the Lord

Starting with the scriptures here, Proverbs 10. We're looking at verses 25, 26, and 27. Verse 25 says, When the tempest passes, the wicked is no more, but the righteous is established forever. The wicked will perish in judgment, the righteous will endure in Christ Jesus.

Verse 26,. Like vinegar to the teeth and smoke to the eyes, so is the sluggard to those who send him. You say that like you know what that means. Vinegar to the teeth is really bizarre.

Well, I would just think that's just, you know, isn't it like just the taste of it?

Like it's sour? Well, that would certainly be gross.

Yeah.

There's a sourness to it.

Yeah.

But it's also that vinegar is.

Is it cleaning?

It's cold.

Oh, okay.

And so, you know what something feels like, especially when it hits your fillings.

Oh, ouch.

Yeah.

Yes.

So I would imagine vinegar to the teeth would be like this.

Okay.

And smoke to the eyes, it burns.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

It's just annoying. It's irritating. You can't get it to go away. It makes you grumpy.

Oh.

Yeah.

So is the sluggard to those who send him. You try to get a lazy man to do a job and he doesn't do it. And it's just like, uh, who sent this guy to do this job? Verse 27, the fear of the Lord prolongs life, but the years of the wicked will be short.

Because if we fear God, it keeps us on the path of doing the right thing. Also when contrasting with the sluggard who does little, the fear of the Lord also keeps us active and working and doing an obedient unto the Lord.

And so as Charles Spurgeon has said, fear God and nothing else.

Yes.

Amen.

Let's get to some questions here. This being the end of the week program, we take questions from the listeners and you can send your questions to when we understand the text at gmail .com. I do have an email to get to here and two voicemails.

Awesome.

So you can also send us a voicemail by going to www .utt .com, clicking on that voicemail tab and record it for us either using your phone or your computer. We have changed websites, web hosts. You may have noticed that if you go to the website and you've been there anytime recently, then it looks different.

Funny thing is I had a critic just the other day, somebody on social media was making fun of how my ministry is just, it's pointless and it doesn't reach anybody. That was the point my critic was trying to make.

So he went to the what website and he went to like traffic stats and he pointed out how like virtually nobody's visiting this website.

Oh yeah. That's because we started over.

Really deflated his balloon when I said, yeah, I just started that site. So of course there's no traffic to it. It's a brand new page. It's on a different site that it wasn't on before. Anyway, but we appreciate you listening.

Yes.

Love having the listeners to the program, whether it's through the radio or through the podcast. If you listen on the radio, let us know what radio station you listen to because we would like to give them a shout out.

Oh yeah.

That'd be awesome.

Let's get to this first voicemail. This is from a former Texan named Rick. So we're former Texans.

Okay.

I didn't know you could be a former Texan.

Well I think.

I thought once a Texan, always a Texan.

Well we were not there long enough.

No.

We weren't there long enough to establish.

Yeah.

I don't know how many generations you have to be there before you're officially considered Texan.

We do consider one of us a Texan though.

That's true.

He was born there.

Ezekiel was born there. Our friend Doug, he told me he's like five generations Texan and he said, and I'm still not a Texan.

That's true. He did say that.

How long you got to be there to be a Texan? Rick has this to share.

Will We See the Holy Spirit in Heaven?

Hey, Pastor Gabe and Becky. This is an old friend from Texas. This is Rick. I've recently moved to the Pacific Northwest with my wife Andrea and we say hello to you. We have just an interesting question where we've been contemplating, but we don't necessarily know how to explain it or put it into words.

But the question that was given to us was from our daughter. Will we see the Holy Spirit when we get in heaven? And hope you guys are doing well and love you. Thank you for all your faithfulness to the scriptures.

God bless brother.

Love you too, Rick. Thank you.

Yeah.

What a great question.

Oh man.

That's definitely a childlike question.

I know.

Right?

Those ones that stump you.

Yeah, that's right. I feel like I've got the Bible combed and then one of my kids asked me a question like, yeah, I didn't study that one.

I don't have any idea.

Well, if you read back with you on that, if you read the heaven tourism literature, like heaven is for real. Colton Burpo. It was said that when he was a kid, he went to heaven. He claimed to see the Holy Spirit there and he was kind of blue.

He even had a color. Yeah, it was sad.

That's right. Now he's kind of blue.

Okay.

Yeah.

Or that he's sad.

I mean.

His Holy Spirit was kind of down when I was there. He was just blue.

He was kind of blue.

And there was Jen Johnson, the gal from the heretical Bethel Church in Redding, California, said that the Holy Spirit looked like the genie from Aladdin.

Who is also ironically blue. Blue.

Yes.

Seemed to have a blue theme going on. Yes, we will see the Holy Spirit in heaven. 1 John 3, 1 through 3, see what kind of love the Father has given to us that we should be called the children of God. And so we are.

The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Beloved, we are God's children now and what we will be has not yet appeared. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him because we shall see him as he.

Is.

And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure. As God said to Moses, no one can see my face and live. As John 1 says, no one has seen God, but the only God who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

That's a reference to Christ making known the Father. So we will see the Father in heaven also. And whatever the Holy Spirit is, however his appearance is, whatever our perception of him will be, we will know it fully when we get to heaven and we will be made to be like him and we will see him as he is.

We have occasions throughout the New Testament where the uniqueness of the Spirit is demonstrated as a person in the Trinity, in the triune Godhead. So the Spirit speaks to Philip in Acts 8 .29 audibly.

The Holy Spirit is quoted there. He speaks to Peter in Acts 10 .19. He speaks to the prophets and teachers in Acts 13 .1 and 2. And there are references to the Holy Spirit in the book of Revelation. In fact, several times in Revelation, the Spirit might be identified in some way other than being called the Holy Spirit.

Revelation is apocalyptic literature, so you have a lot of symbolism that's being used.

There.

And so sometimes the Holy Spirit might be referred to in different ways. Some commentaries will say that in Revelation 1 .4, 4 .5, and 5 .6, the reference to the seven spirits is a reference to the Holy Spirit.

Oh, because seven is a number of completeness.

Completion, right? God's number, as we would also might think of it being.

Right.

So Revelation 1 .4 says that the seven spirits are before his throne. So that's likely the Holy Spirit.

Interesting.

And then the Holy Spirit also speaks in Revelation. In chapter 14, verse 13, the Holy Spirit says, blessed indeed says the Holy Spirit that they may rest from their labors for their deeds follow them, talking about the saints finding rest in glory.

And then, of course, we have that very famous verse, Revelation 22 .17, the Spirit and the bride say, come. So the Holy Spirit calling those to himself and whoever drinks of the water will never thirst, will receive eternal life in glory.

We have these different ways that the Holy Spirit is identified through scripture, but definitely the uniqueness in his personhood.

It's going to be revealed in heaven.

It will be revealed to us when we get there. The Holy Spirit kind of has the lesser of the three roles, and I don't want to say it that way. Every time you talk about the Trinity, it's like, okay, what am I going to say that sounds heretical?

Right.

Yeah.

But he kind of intentionally takes more of a background role, where you have the Father who has decided everything, the Son, whom the Spirit glorifies, who the Father makes known, the Son makes the Father known, the Son sends the Holy Spirit, the Father sends the Holy Spirit.

Right.

The Spirit doesn't have as much of a spotlight in the New Testament.

Right.

Even though the Holy Spirit is indeed himself God.

Right.

If I'm not mistaken, the Holy Spirit is written about the least in scripture?

Well, yes, of course.

Is that accurate? Even if you include the Old Testament especially, the Holy Spirit is talked about the least always there.

Right. Right.

Between every single word, between every letter, the Holy Spirit is there.

Right.

Exactly.

As Peter says in 2 Peter 1, the men who wrote scripture wrote as the Holy Spirit carried.

Them.

Exactly.

So, the Bible that we read is given by the Holy Spirit of God.

Amen.

But yet, it's kind of just like the way Matthew writes the Gospel of Matthew. Matthew is never quoted in Matthew.

Right.

Yes, exactly.

He never has a speaking line. There's never dialogue from Matthew.

Right.

But he wrote that Gospel.

Right.

And so, it's the same sort of thing with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit's behind all of it.

Yes.

And yet doesn't...

In a humble way, in an honorable way.

In a way that showcases Christ.

There you go.

Yes.

Because the emphasis...

Our Savior.

The one that is put forward is to be Christ.

Yes.

Yeah.

And Revelation especially. Very Christ-glorifying book. Thank you for your question, Rick.

Yeah.

And you can pass that on to your daughter as well. Appreciate you guys listening. All right. This next question comes from Chris. Here we go.

Racism, White Supremacy, and the Gospel

Good afternoon, Pastor Gabe and Becky. This is Chris from Penns, North Carolina. And I just wanted to jump on here with the debate between Dr. James White and Tori Mahler, knowing that this conversation has sort of taken the internet, especially among more Christians by storm, discussion about how this should have been handled.

And I wanted to get your thoughts on it. It's really been a grievous thing to my soul being bantered about on social media, particularly on X that tends to lend itself toward this kind of thing. Regarding racism and what essentially is white supremacy, and these people claim to be reformed after C .E .P. or even Presbyterians, it's like a poison in the church.

And it's grievous because while I am very much a firm believer in the local church, the podcast and other media have inroads and are attracting younger men. And I wanted to get your input on this. Thanks.

Have a great day.

I appreciate your question, Chris. I hope everybody was able to hear that OK. It was kind of an interesting audio quality.

Yeah.

But basically, the question that he's asking is with regards to a recent debate that was had between Dr. James. White was just up the road from us about an hour away.

Yeah.

And Corey Mahler, who is an excommunicated former Lutheran. He was excommunicated from his church because of his racist ramblings. He's one of the persons behind a podcast called the Stone Choir and very kind of Nazi esque in some of their commentary, very anti-Jewish, very white supremacist is the way that that Chris had talked about that.

And then we see how this kind of stuff has been infecting even those who would proclaim themselves to be reformed. Now, a lot of these guys who call themselves reformed, I wouldn't actually say that they're reformed.

They're reformed in name only.

Right.

I know that term rhino is referred or is reserved for Republican in name only. But in this case, they would be rhinos reformed, reformed in name only.

Yeah.

And both on the Presbyterian and the Baptist side. There are reformed Baptists that claim to be reformed, but they may use the 1689 as a confession of faith, but nothing about their practice appears to be reformed.

They seem to be a lot more into social commentary.

Yeah.

And a lot of that social commentary leaning toward the white supremacist side of things. And then you have some others that claim to be Presbyterian, so likewise claim to be reformed, but they're not actually part of a Presbytery.

Yeah.

And the funny thing about that is, you know, if I were in some sort of casual conversation with those guys, I would say, welcome to the Baptist world, fellas.

Yeah, no joke.

I mean, you want to be Presbyterian, but not be part of a Presbytery. That's Baptist ecclesiology.

Yeah.

So anyway, but yeah, these are usually young men that are leading these churches and they've gotten into this very racist kind of social commentary, like I said. Now, the debate that James White had with Corey Mahler, it was regarding a racist claim that Corey Mahler had made toward a friend of ours, Samuel C.

Oh.

And it was an online debate that Samuel had with Mahler, in which Mahler said that a black man cannot be as sanctified as a white man. And so based on that statement, James White says, okay, yeah, yeah, yep, yep.

Just based on that.

Oh my goodness.

Based on that statement, I'm going to single that out and we're going to have a debate over that.

Okay.

And the ironic thing, the ironic thing being the guy named James White was the one who was saying, no, the black man can be as sanctified as the white guy.

Yeah.

So that's just one of those fun little ironies. And there was a statement that Corey Mahler made in there that was kind of snipped out of that debate and has been circulating around saying something to the effect of the majority of black men in the world are functionally mentally retarded or something like that.

Okay.

I actually, I wanted to find the clip and play it, but I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to give him a voice on my podcast. Mahler is one of those things, too. And this is the difficult balance in this.

As Chris is kind of drawing this out and he's asking my thoughts on this. When I heard about James White doing the debate with Mahler, I was just like, why? Why are we doing? Yeah, exactly. Like, there are a lot of people who don't know who Corey Mahler is.

Yeah.

And I mean, do people actually listen to him and regard him as?

He's got a pretty significant following on his podcast.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

And I mean, I'm really quite surprised at the number of people that I will chat with and find there's some sort of connection with Stone Choir.

Oh, interesting.

Or Mahler.

Okay.

So he somehow has his.

Connections. His web.

Yeah.

I was going to say, like, his tentacles are out there and.

Yeah.

Reaching into various places.

Interesting.

And I don't think that he tries to do this. It's not like he's trying to elevate himself to be some sort of platform head. And he's got his minions that he's pulled to himself. It doesn't seem like that's really his shtick.

Okay.

It just has kind of happened that way, because we do see this rise in racism.

Yeah.

And white supremacy that's going on, even among young men that would claim to be reformed. I know it's absurd.

It's totally absurd.

Contrary to passages like James two, one, my brothers show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. And Colossians 311 here, there is not Greek and Jews circumcised and uncircumcised barbarians get the enslaved free, but Christ is all and in all.

I mean, if I got to pick the color of my skin, that might be different, but I did not get to pick how white I am.

And a man who has grown up in an area of the world in which people are mostly dark, he's been impoverished and poor, has not had the access to the kind of technology that we've had or the opportunities that we've had.

Maybe he can't even read, but this man loves God and he loves to hear the gospel preached. I can't read the Bible, but I love to hear people talk about it to me and he just glorifies Christ for the salvation that he has by faith in him.

That man is more sanctified than any American who has probably enjoyed a whole plethora of opportunities, has technology at his fingertips, maybe even has a doctorate to his name.

That doesn't live it.

Exactly, yeah. Memorized half. The Bible can quote to you constant passages and yet remains unchanged by it.

Yes.

Amen.

The poor man who can't read, but loves Christ is more sanctified than the guy who has greater riches and more opportunities, but has been unchanged by the stuff that he studied.

But they're not talking about poverty. They're talking about skin tone.

Well, I mentioned that too. I said, he lives in like a darker skin part of the world.

Like, well, I know you mentioned it, but like, what does that change?

Doesn't change anything.

It doesn't change anything. We're still the same.

I'm not going to go through what Mahler's arguments were regarding. It was largely philosophical.

Thank you for saving me from that.

Largely philosophical, not biblical at all.

How absurd.

I will say that Bob the Baptist, you're looking up Bob Bobricky on either X or on YouTube. I don't know that I'm pronouncing his last name correct, but it looks like that.

Okay.

So Bob the Baptist is what he goes by. His channel on YouTube, he did a great breakdown of the white Mahler debate. So if you don't want to watch it, but you want to get kind of the nuts and bolts of it, then I would recommend his channel to you.

And like Chris said, there is this growing sort of prejudice that exists even among reformed white men, young, young reformed white men.

Okay.

And this is something that I caution. I've addressed this occasionally on the broadcast. There was a comment that Joel Webben had made a few weeks back a month ago that was very racist. And I responded to that comment talking about how Haitian men have a low IQ.

And if you deny that, then you're a liar and you're unfit to be a pastor. Oh, I mean, it makes me laugh just saying this, just how stupid it is. It's so absurd. It's ridiculous. But anyway, I've been talking about this stuff even since wokeness, even since wokeness was kind of on the rise in churches.

That's what I was thinking. This is just a repeat.

It's the same thing.

It is. It's just different terms used to cover up the same thing.

Right. When ministers that I previously admired started latching on to the social justice commentary that would also be labeled wokeness, I mean, we were seeing that level of racism infect the church.

Yes.

And one of the things that I said while that was going on, I wouldn't be able to pull up the podcast and tell you which one it was. But one of the things I said was, we've got to be careful about not letting the pendulum swing the other direction.

Right.

Because we can overreact to this stuff.

Yes.

And then the overreaction will become just as racist as the stuff that they're saying.

Exactly.

And that's what's going on right now.

Yeah.

This is an overreaction to the wokeness stuff that was going on, or even like the anti-white men commentary that was coming from the left and the intersectionalists. And so the attempt to try to reclaim some kind of pride in whiteness and in masculinity, now those guys have just become straight up racist and anti-Semitic because they're also going after Jews who are also white.

What?

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

I know.

Like I said, this whole thing's absurd. It's just utterly ridiculous.

What do you consider white, then? Like, define your terms so we can tell you how ridiculous it is.

Yeah.

Western European in origin, I suppose.

So American who are all not from here.

Okay.

But my solution to this, my solution is the same as it was when wokeness was going on. We just need the gospel. This is going away from the gospel. It's exactly what this is. Remember what 1 Timothy 6, 3, 4, and 5 say, if anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness.

So stop right there. What are we supposed to be teaching? The sound words of our Lord Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness. When you're getting into all these social commentary hobby horses, you are not teaching that which accords with godliness.

You're adding to it.

You're just responding. You're reacting to different news items that come up in the culture. And whatever the latest trend is, whatever the latest headline is, whatever story it is that everybody's latching onto, that's now the topic du jour.

And so everything that you're talking about is centered on that. It's not focusing on Christ and how we are to live godly lives in the present age. It's instead being driven by the culture. You might think that you're pushing back against the culture, but you're not.

You're being driven by the culture. You're being led by it.

When everything You're being influenced, highly influenced by it.

Yeah.

Folks, there's nothing new under the sun.

Yes, exactly.

That which was will be again. And so we need a heavy dose of the gospel. Same stuff that I've been talking about this past week when we were going through Luke chapter 12, now into 13, even in Jeremiah chapter 16.

We need the gospel. The times right now we're calling for the gospel. The judgment of God is coming. Turn from your sin to the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

Amen.

And then the further teachings of Christ, which come from his prophets and apostles, that which we have in the scriptures grows us in godliness. It's the teaching that accords with godliness to make us more like Christ, to not be tossed to and fro and led by every shifting wind of doctrine, which the scripture warns us against James chapter one, Ephesians chapter four.

So the person that is going off into these different doctrines, first Timothy six, four, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth.

Imagining that godliness is a means of gain. That was exactly the passage that I was using to show what wokeness is and what it's turning the church into. And this thing that's going on right now is the same thing.

And the same passage applies to it.

And the same ridiculousness.

Yeah, the same absurdity. It's men being led by carnal things, quite literally, because they're looking at their skin color and the narrative is being driven by exactly how much pigment I see in front of me when I look down at my hands.

And this is...

So don't tan.

Don't tan.

Yeah.

Like, I mean, when does, yeah, anyway, going back on how absurd it is.

I know.

Well, this goes back to...

I just can't get over it.

This goes back to the wokeness stuff when they were saying that your churches need to be diverse. And if there's not enough diversity in your church, okay, well, how much pigmentation does it take before I'm finally achieving the diversity level that I'm supposed to have in my congregation?

Absolutely ridiculous.

As 2 Corinthians 5, 16 says, from now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh.

Yes.

For even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old is passed away. Behold, the new has come.