December 23, 2022 Show with Joey Tomlinson on “The Day of Trouble: Depression, Scripture, & the God Who Is Near”

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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

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George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

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Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is

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Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this December 23rd, 2022

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Christmas Eve Eve. And I'm delighted to have as a first -time guest today a man who has written something that I am going to need to read myself from cover to cover once it is in my hands.

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We arranged this interview fairly recently, so the publishers have not yet gotten those books to us, although they are on the way.

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But I'm speaking of Joey Tomlinson, author and pastor of Deer Park Fellowship of Newport News, Virginia, and we're discussing his book,

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The Day of Trouble, Depression Scripture, and the God Who Is Near.

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And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Joey Tomlinson. Thank you,

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Chris. I really appreciate the opportunity to be on, my brother. Thank you for having me. Yes, and the pleasure is all mine.

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And the reason why I prefaced my introduction to you is because, as I mentioned to you before the program, and we were still off air,

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I battled depression myself. I have battled it for quite a long time, especially after the passing and the homegoing of my late wife,

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Julie, who is now spending an eternity with Christ. And this occurred in 2010.

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And although I am comforted knowing where she is and that she would never trade places with any of us, not even for a split second,

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I still battle depression. And it is something that I am not alone in this struggle,

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I am fully aware. Even one of my heroes of the faith, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, suffered with depression.

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But before we go into the topic of this book, tell us about Deer Park Fellowship of Newport News, Virginia.

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Yeah, so Deer Park Fellowship is a relatively new church plant. And so we were planted by another local church that I had been pastoring at in the community for some years.

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And so it was a little bit of both a church plant slash church revitalization.

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And so it was two different congregations coming together, one from the church we were sent with and the congregation that was presently at the location that we now meet.

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And we started this work about four -ish years ago and officially launched as an autonomous local church almost two years ago now.

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So a little bit over a year and a half to form Deer Park Fellowship. And over the course of 2020, before we officially planted, we kind of had this third group that came in that I would say makes up the majority of our local church now, neither from the church that sent us or the congregation that was there initially.

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And so a lot of change for everyone. But it has been a tremendous blessing for my wife and I to be sent to plant this church by our home church.

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And so we're located in Newport News, Virginia, in the Hampton Roads community.

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It's a confessionally reformed church, 1689. London Baptist Confession of Faith is our standard of faith, our statement of faith.

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And so yeah, so love doing that, love serving the people there. It's a wonderful church body that demonstrate the love of Christ to myself and my family very well.

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And so very humbled to be their pastor and very thankful to God to be able to serve them.

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Praise God. Well, if anybody wants to find out more about Deer Park Fellowship in Newport News, Virginia, go to DP Fellowship.

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DP is for Deer Park, obviously. DPfellowship .org. DPfellowship .org.

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And God willing, we will be repeating that later on in the program. Well, another thing that we have to take care of before we delve into this very important theme, the day of trouble, depression, scripture, and the

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God who is near, we have a tradition here on Iron Sherpa Zion Radio. Whenever we have a first -time guest on the program, we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony.

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That would include the kind of religious atmosphere, if any, in which they were raised and any kind of providential circumstances that our sovereign

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Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them.

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And we would love to hear your story, Joey. I would love to tell it. So I was blessed to be able to be raised by two parents who loved the

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Lord. And I was born and raised in a Southern Baptist church. And so that's kind of my particular denominational background.

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And my parents took us to church faithfully. Every Sunday morning, every

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Sunday night, every Wednesday night we were there. So I come from a home of three boys, and that was a commitment that both of my parents made before we were born.

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And so that was all I knew. And so my parents raised me in the fear and admonition of the

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Lord. And so for me, there was never a time— I don't have any early memories of not believing that Christ had died for my sin, but I placed my trust and faith in Christ around the age of seven or eight and was baptized in the church that was my home church until I left home.

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And I'm originally from Southern Georgia, and so when I left home and moved to Virginia was when I left the church that I was born and raised in.

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But around seven, eight years of age, as much as I could understand my sin and as much as I could understand the gospel,

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I believed it. And I often tell people, I actually tell our congregation, we're getting ready to baptize this coming

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Sunday a seven -year -old kid. And I often tell my congregation that when the Apostle Paul tells

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Timothy that he was the chief of sinners, that a lot of times we think that that is what people who come to Christ, that they should have that sort of mature understanding of their sin and of the nature of the gospel at the beginning of their walk with God, when in reality that comes as you mature in the faith.

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And so I certainly had lots of maturing in my own life to do after I put my faith in Christ.

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And it was certainly bumpy and plenty of sins along the way, but God has graciously preserved me.

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And I've had an early and long walking with God.

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And so my dad taught me how to read the Bible from a young age using Matthew Henry's commentary, being able to read that and study that commentary, which

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I'm thankful for. And so I have a rich Christian heritage, which

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I'm grateful to God for. But that's a brief snapshot there for you.

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Well, praise God. Is Deer Park Fellowship still within the

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Southern Baptist Convention, or is that an independent? It is, yep. It's within the Southern Baptist Convention as well.

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So I'm assuming that even though I'm not in the Southern Baptist Convention, I was saddened by the loss of the presidency during the presidential race that you folks had.

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You and me both. That our friend Dr. Tom Askell of Founders Ministries lost that election.

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And as I said, even though I'm not a part of the Southern Baptist Convention, I was certainly praying for his victory so that the

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Lord would use that presidency to bring about great transformation in that denomination.

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Absolutely. But it's at times like these that we even more have to show that we believe in the doctrines that we actually claim to believe, that God is sovereign over all things, and that he had other plans.

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And he'll bring about his purposes no matter what our desires or efforts are.

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Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm looking forward to discussing this book. And one of the reasons that I knew that it was going to be an excellent book is because of the fact that it has been endorsed by two men that I have interviewed on this program whom

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I highly respect. And in fact, one of them ministered to me personally in a very valuable way after the passing of my wife.

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And I'm speaking of Dr. David Murray, who at one time was on the faculty at Puritan Reform Theological Seminary and is now pastoring a

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PCA church. But Dr. David Murray, who has also written on depression himself, in fact, that book ministered to me,

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Christians Get Depressed Too. He wrote, I'm so grateful for this thoughtful, balanced, holistic, and biblical book on depression, forged in the fire of personal need, refined by the experience of counseling others, and founded upon the scriptures.

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These pages will bring hope and help to many depressed Christians. Another brother whom

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I have interviewed on this program at least twice, Brian Hedges. Brian G.

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Hedges is pastor of Redeemer Church in Niles, Michigan and author of Christ Formed in You.

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He writes, Joey Tomlinson brings the warmth of a pastor's heart and the wisdom of a counselor's experience to this helpful book.

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Unlike some well -intentioned but mistaken approaches to treating depression, Joey offers no panaceas, whether medical, psychological, or spiritual.

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Instead, you will find balanced, holistic, and biblical tools for diagnosis and treatment, as well as a conversation partner who has both faced his own day of trouble and has firmly grasped the redemptive hope of Christ's grace in the gospel.

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And there were other endorsements as well, but I figured I'd highlight those two since I've interviewed these brothers.

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So tell us about what led you to say one day, unless somebody else had urged you to do this, but you had the thought pop up in your head somehow,

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I've got to write a book to benefit those who battle depression, and there have been many other books already in print that have addressed this issue.

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You obviously felt that, or should I say believed, I think we use the word felt too much, you believed that there should be another volume available on this subject to benefit the body of Christ, so tell us the story of what led to the writing of this book.

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Sure, yeah, it definitely wasn't because there was a lack of other books that were written out there on the subject, and so as you said, there's a vast amount of books that have been published on the topic of depression.

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For me, it started with years ago, the church that I pastored at previously,

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I preached a sermon there on, and I can't remember if it was Psalm 77 or Psalm 88, and so it was one of the

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Psalms that I utilize and kind of write about in the book. I preached on that particular

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Psalm to the congregation, and I was surprised by the amount of feedback that I received from the particular church that I was a pastor at at the time as it related, because I spoke about the struggle of depression, and I kind of utilized the psalmist to give voice to the particular experience of those facing depression, and so there was a lot of people that reached out to me to just tell me how encouraged they were by it, and any time you're prepping a sermon, you have a lot more material that you prepare than you actually end up preaching in the pulpit, and so I had a lot more material than I actually utilized, and I thought that, well, you know, for these people that reached out to me, maybe

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I can put something together that would further encourage them, and so I started kind of assimilating some of the information, pulling it all together, trying to make sense of it, and I realized that I had a lot more material there than I even knew originally, and one of the things that I've noticed in the conversation on depression has been a large number of books, either overemphasize the body, and I'm just speaking in the

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Christian world, so not even going outside of that to books that perhaps are written about depression, but even within the

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Christian world, there are some books that are published that they emphasize the body to the neglect of the soul unintentionally, and then in a reaction to that, there are books that have been published that address the soul and unintentionally underemphasize the impact of Adam's sin on our bodies and that we wrestle physiologically because of the sin in the garden, the first sin in the garden, and so I wanted to write a resource.

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Once I realized I had a lot more material on the Psalms themselves as it related to the experience of depression while trying not to impose a meaning on the

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Psalmists that the Holy Spirit of God didn't intend, but this experience of isolation in many of the, and I get into this in the book, a lot of the language and verbiage that people would associate with depression, you see that in the

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Psalms, especially in the Psalms of Lament, and so when I realized I have a lot of material there and I began to think of this body -soul composite that God has made us,

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I realized maybe I should begin to sit down with this and consider putting this in a book format and maybe this could bless more people than even outside of the congregation that I was pastoring at the time even though that was my initial intent, and so interestingly enough, you reading

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Brian Hedges' endorsement, Brian was kind enough to me to read a very, very early, rough draft of this book, and I even put him in the acknowledgement.

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Somehow he read my first draft of the book when I kind of put the stuff together and he graciously did not laugh at me but helped me to think through how to write it because I've never written a book.

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It's certainly a different experience than writing a sermon every week or writing an article or a blog, and so Brian was kind of an early reader and really spoke into the book to help make it better, and so I put this together and the guys at H &E

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Publishing, Chance Faulkner is kind of the guy that founded

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H &E Publishing, they were excited about getting behind the project and so that's kind of the origins of it.

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The aim has been to, let's talk about how to address depression from both a body and soul aspect, trying to keep that in mind and that being the connective tissue throughout the chapters of the book and let's talk about symptom management but at the same time, we want to demonstrate the sufficiency of Scripture and the sufficiency of Christ most importantly and so my hope was to kind of bring all that together and I'm sure we may get into it later on in the program but one of the things that I really wanted to emphasize in the book that I've seen almost universally neglected was the centrality of corporate worship, of gathering with God's church on the

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Lord's Day regularly and how God uses those ordinary means of grace to nurture us and depression, one of the characteristics of depression is isolation, people often wrestle in isolation, they wrestle by themselves and so corporate worship, the public gathering of God's church can draw the person out that's struggling and help them to struggle well in community and so that's kind of, at a high view, some of the why behind the book is body and soul, sufficiency of Scripture, sufficiency of Christ and helping someone to wrestle in the context of the local church, not in isolation.

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Now it would probably be helpful because there is, as you likely know, there is controversy connected to this very subject because there are different approaches philosophically and theologically to this subject by those involved in counseling and even within the body of Christ.

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Perhaps you could define depression because is there a difference in your learned opinion between prolonged sorrow and grief and mourning and depression.

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For instance, Jesus was a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief and there are

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Christian theologians who would say that Jesus was never depressed but he was certainly filled with grief and mourning and especially that is manifested in the account in the

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Garden of Gethsemane when he was sweating as if it were drops of blood during the apprehension of receiving the wrath of his own father on Golgotha.

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But perhaps you could give us a definition of depression and how it may be different from exactly what our

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Lord went through. Maybe you disagree with those that say that Jesus was never depressed but if you could.

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Yeah, absolutely. You know, I go over four causes. They're not the only causes but they're the kind of the common causes of depression that I've seen.

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And so the four that I cover in the book, one is I've seen biological, what's seeming to me seems like biological causes of depression which

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I kind of trace back again to the sin of Adam, not a consequence of someone's own sin but live in the shadow of depression for their whole lives.

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I think that sadness is a common experience that we all have at some points in our lives, different seasons of our lives and temporary sadness, and we shouldn't be surprised by that but I would put that in a different category than I would someone who is depressed.

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And when I hear depressed and when I use the word, I'm thinking this has been a lot, this is a longer term thing that someone has battled with.

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And so more long -term, certainly sorrow, grief, the old word for it is just melancholy and so there's people that I've spent time with that it seems to come from a place just their physical makeup, their bodies are breaking down just like other sicknesses and other ailments that we all experience.

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There are people that wrestle with it because of trauma, something has happened to them, whether they've been sinned against or they've lost a loved one or they could be wrestling in some other way and so there's depressive long -term emotions that can come from that as well.

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There is as well a change in life that can cause depression, just a radical change and all of these can have overlap

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I talk about in the book as well but a change in life can be a source of depression and then also personal sin which

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I address and talk about repentance being the restoration of one's joy and so there can be different causes for depression but when

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I use the word depression I'm thinking a lot more long -term, something that someone has wrestled with for a significant time and depending on what it is that is causing the depression and people have, as it relates to particular definitions, really the definitions stop with just describing long -term symptoms.

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It's a really hard thing to give voice to which is why I try to pull out the psalmist's language to describe it but depending on the source of the depression

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I think is what dictates even and this is the controversial part do you treat depression with medication or not and I kind of leave that open -ended but I try to talk about it in the book with an optimism and a perspective on God's common grace to man because I've met with people that when

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I counsel them they aren't clear -headed and so they don't have the capacity to even really receive the counsel from the scriptures that I would be giving them but after being on a low -dose antidepressant for a month or so they begin to get more clear -headed and they can receive the counsel and so one of the things

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I talk about in the book is that everybody needs to be counseled from God's word everybody needs to rest in their sufficient savior and some people may need medical intervention but that should be the last stop in the journey and so I talk about that in the book but then

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I've had people as well that they've been on medication and they've had a horrible reaction to it and they had to kind of safely taper off and so I have seen kind of both sides of the spectrum if you will and in the book

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I try to be honest about we really don't know what antidepressants do but some people seem to be helped at a symptom level when they take them but even if they're taking them to manage symptoms they still need to remember that it's not their salvation that it is

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Christ alone that they need to trust in and see him as you were just saying

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Chris as the man of sorrows acquainted with grief and you know if that I certainly don't want to did

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Christ in his humanity experience depressive emotions?

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grief and sorrow seem in some way to to harmonize with that idea

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I certainly would not ascribe that obviously to his deity he's truly God and he's truly man but in his humanity he is called by the scriptures as the man of sorrows but he addressed his human emotions in a way that was honoring and pleasing to the

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Lord and the scripture reminds us that that he can sympathize with our weaknesses which is immensely comforting and so but you're exactly right even within our own

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Christian tradition there are certainly different opinions as it relates to the issue of depression and medications and what exactly depression is yes whether or not perhaps the debate will continue until we are in glory but whether or not you could ever rightly apply the term depressed to Jesus Christ there are elements of depression that he certainly experienced and for long periods of time perhaps even his entire life on earth because he knew beforehand and also experienced afterward the rejection of his own people the people of Israel from which he came and so that was something that clearly in the scriptures was like a dagger into his heart and so on I think of oh sorry no no go ahead

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I was just going to say I think of 2 Corinthians 5 21 he became sin who knew no sin so that we might become the righteousness of God like for Christ to become sin although he did not sin the sorrow that had to come with that I can't even fathom and as far as medication is concerned yes

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I have seen people on both ends of the spectrum in that regard people have who have benefited from it have urged me for years to try

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I have refused not for theological reasons I just at this point it hasn't crippled me or immobilized me or overwhelmed me to a point where it radically has changed in a negative way how

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I function and think so I have held off on it but I've also seen the negative consequences of some who have used medication for this reason and even when there has been at least one individual that I know personally who changed medication and it triggered something in him that brought him to an attempt at suicide so people have to be very leery about this and I think that they have to ask a lot of people for counsel on both sides perhaps the pro and con before they even get involved in a medical process or medical answer to what they're going through we have to go we have to go to our first break right now and if you have a question for our guest

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Joey Tomlinson on depression our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail dot com

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail dot com give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter

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I understand that a subject like this will no doubt automatically evoke questions from people who have very private, personal, intimate matters that they want to ask about because depression is very often linked to those kinds of things that you don't necessarily want to bring out in public and obviously if this question involves other people or a specific church we would want you to remain anonymous but if you're just asking a general question about depression about the contents of Joey's book about the scriptures and how they relate to this issue please give us at least your first name, your city and state and your country of residence don't go away we're going to be right back with Joey Tomlinson and more of our discussion on depression right after these messages from our sponsors

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio at the same time royaldiadem .com we are now back with our guest today

45:46

Joey Tomlinson pastor of Deer Park Fellowship of Newport News Virginia we are discussing his book

45:52

The Day of Trouble Depression Scripture and the God who is near we already have an anonymous listener who has a question for you

46:01

Joey the anonymous listener says I have heard from some

46:07

Christians that depression is always the result of sin now

46:13

I understand that we live in a fallen world and we have inherited the sin nature of Adam but what

46:22

I am talking about is depression being a direct result of personal disobedience to God is this true you have a different opinion yeah

46:35

I would I would differ there and so you know I don't think that it's always a result of personal sin and so you know that's where I get into the categories in the book of biological it could be biological in nature it could be from trauma someone's sin against you or immense loss in some shape form or fashion or it can be a change in your station of life as well that can be the source of it but that's where I really do think there could be an under emphasis of just how far reaching the curse is that was introduced into this world through the fall of Adam and so I would certainly trace some forms of depression either from personal sin or from resulting from the first sin in the first garden but I don't think that all sin is a result of personal sin

47:33

I think that there are some people that wrestle this side of eternity all of their lives with these sort of melancholy this melancholic disposition if you will and I think that if what you're being told is that it's always a result of your personal sin that that's only going to drive you further and further into the cave of depression and so I had one particular person that I counseled many years ago who was wrestling with depression in his assumption he had received that sort of advice that depression is always a result of personal sin so he came to my office with that presupposition and the more you know no one has ever this side of eternity without sin but by personal sin what

48:31

I'm looking for counseling is a pervasive habitual unrepentant sin in your life and this individual that I was counseling at the time

48:44

I did not get a sense and he was very forthright with me of of unconfessed sin in his life of he wasn't walking in darkness you know the

48:55

David talks about in Psalm 32 about his bones drying up because of unconfessed sin and I didn't get that with this particular individual that I was counseling and so I just recommended that he went and got a physical from he had a

49:11

Christian doctor and that he went and talked to his doctor about about depression and that he and I would pick up with our counseling after he did that.

49:23

It was a little bit of my homework assignment if he will that I gave him and he was reluctant because I think he in some ways was shamed as it related to contemplating taking medication and he ended up going and getting on a very low dose of antidepressants and over time it really helped him and it did make our counsel and our time together a lot more effective.

49:49

I was able to it felt like the counsel that I was giving him from the scriptures it was almost like it was ricocheting and it in the medication helped to manage some of the symptoms for him but I at no point with him got the impression that he was intentionally hiding unconfessed habitual sin in his life and so so yeah

50:17

I mean so that's a longer answer to the question but I don't I don't think that depression is always a result of personal sin.

50:26

I think in many cases it certainly can be the result of personal sin and I certainly see in the broader culture this lack of taking personal responsibility for your life and numbing yourself with medication and the abuses that are there

50:42

I see that certainly but I don't think that that should be the thing that pushes us to swing the pendulum the other direction and say that depression is always under every circumstance a result of personal sin in the same way that I wouldn't say suffering is all you know suffering is the result of personal sin.

51:06

Well thank you Anonymous and please provide for us through email obviously we're not going to divulge this information on the air since you remain anonymous but just send us your full name your mailing address and you're going to receive a copy of this book

51:24

The Day of Trouble Depression Scripture and The God Who Is Near by our guest today

51:31

Joey Tomlinson compliments of Joey who purchased these books for our listeners himself and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service cbbbs .com

51:43

will be shipping the book out to you at no charge to you or to Arning, Sharp, and Zion Radio and also if you are a first -time questioner

51:54

Anonymous you'll also get a free New American Standard Bible so make sure you tell us whether or not you're a first -time questioner we'll trust you and we'll have that shipped out to you as well we have to go to our midway break right now and please be patient with us this midway break is a little longer than the other breaks in the show because Grace Life Radio 90 .1

52:18

FM in Lake City, Florida is required of us requires of us a longer break because the

52:24

FCC requires of them to localize geographically all of their programming to Lake City, Florida and they do that with their own public service announcements and other local things while they do that we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials so please use this time wisely write down as much of the information as you can for as many of our advertisers as you can provide it in their ads so that you can more successfully and frequently contact our advertisers and when you can't do anything that involves money with our advertisers or when you can't visit their churches and so on there's one thing that everyone can do you can contact our advertisers and thank them for sponsoring

53:03

Iron Shirt from Zion Radio if indeed you are truly thankful that this program exists and there exists people out there who love this program so much that they share some of the money that God has blessed them with with us so that we can press on forward and continue to broadcast this show so also send in your questions to Joey Tomlinson the

53:26

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com don't go away we'll be right back with Joey Tomlinson have you noticed the gap that exists between the

53:35

Sunday morning sermon and the Sunday school classroom or the small group study so often we experience great preaching from the pulpit but when it comes time to study

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God's Word in those smaller settings well let's be honest it leaves a lot to be desired it seems like it is nearly impossible to find good curriculum out there today that is true to the

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Word of God and is built upon sound doctrine much less it's hard to find curriculum that will actually teach people how to study the

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Bible. Hi there my name is Jordan Tu and I am the executive director of the Baptist Publishing House.

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Word of God I invite you go to our website download a free study baptistpublishinghouse .com

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may God bless you. I'm Dr.

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Joseph Piper President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Grand Valley Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

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Every Christian who is serious about the deformed faith and the Westminster standards should have and use the eight volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the

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Dr. Morecraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

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Call 717 -258 -4688 today. Hello, my name is

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Anthony Uvinio and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York and also the host of the reformrookie .com

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Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnzen has on the show.

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And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed Church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, New York.

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Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Ovinio and thanks for listening. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

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A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

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or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.

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Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor.

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This is Pastor Bill Sasso wishing you all the richest blessings of our

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01:10:00

Before I return to my guest today, Joey Tomlinson, we have some very important announcements to make, and it really does not give me any pleasure to give this announcement every day, but it's an urgently needed announcement.

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Folks, we need your financial help if we're going to continue to exist. After the hysteria associated with the coronavirus and the unconstitutional mandates inflicted upon the citizens of this country and also other countries spanning the globe, we have suffered a great financial loss in regards to gift -giving.

01:10:42

I'm assuming that many people in our audience had their own finances plummet to an all -new low.

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Maybe they've lost their jobs, maybe they've got a cut in their salaries, maybe their businesses that they owned have gone out of business because of these mandates.

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Well, whatever the case is, our giving to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has plummeted to an all -new low, and we have never bounced back from it.

01:11:14

If you really love this show, go to ironsharpensironradio .com and click

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Support, and then click Click to Donate Now. You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.

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01:11:40

And I want to remind you folks that I never want anybody listening to give their own church, where they are a member, less money in order to give us a financial gift.

01:11:51

In other words, don't cut into the money that you have set aside every Sunday to give to your local church in order to bless us.

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Please never do that. And also, if you are really struggling to survive financially, and you really will be increasing the size of the stack of bills on your kitchen table that are still not paid, please wait until you're more financially stable and back on your feet before you give us a financial gift.

01:12:22

Two things that are clear in the Bible about finances is that we are commanded by God to provide for our church and our family.

01:12:30

Providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God. But, if you love the show, and you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, providing for church and family, you have extra money collecting interest in the bank, you have extra money for benevolent, recreational, and trivial purposes, please, if you love this show, share some of that money with us so that we can continue to exist.

01:12:55

Go to www .ironchipandzioneradio .com Click support, then click to donate. Now, if you want to advertise with us, as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe, you don't have to believe identically with me, but you need to be promoting something compatible with what

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01:13:22

I'd love to help you launch an ad campaign as quickly as possible because we are just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars as we are in your donations.

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And last but not least, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church like Deer Park Fellowship of Newport News, Virginia, no matter where on the planet

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Earth you live, I have extensive lists spanning the globe of biblically faithful churches and I've helped many people in our audience all over the world find

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Christ -honoring churches, sometimes within just a couple of minutes from where they live, and I may be able to help you in the same way.

01:14:04

So if that's your predicament right now, you are not in a biblically faithful church, no matter where you live, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail dot com and put

01:14:16

I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Joey Tomlinson on the day of trouble, depression, scripture, and the

01:14:26

God who is near. chrisarnson at gmail dot com give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

01:14:35

And one other thing I wanted to touch on Before the break, you were answering an anonymous listener,

01:14:46

I believe it was an anonymous listener, who was asking about depression always being the result of personal sin, personal disobedience, as opposed to the fall.

01:14:59

Obviously we wouldn't have depression if the fall never occurred.

01:15:04

But the fall did happen, but the question specifically was personal sin being the root cause of depression, and you stated emphatically that although that may be the cause of certain individuals depression, it is not in your opinion universally the case that there are many circumstances when sin is not the cause.

01:15:29

But, having said that though, don't we all need to be very careful that a season of depression that has risen in our lives through no fault of our own doesn't lead us to sin.

01:15:47

I am someone who, thanks be to the grace and mercy of God, overcame drunkenness, habitual scandalous levels of drunkenness and going to Hebron Colony in Boone, North Carolina, a

01:16:06

Christian recovery ministry. God used that ministry mightily to remove from me any desire to return to drunkenness again.

01:16:18

But I was reacting to depression over the illness and death of my wife, trying to self -medicate, trying to erase the pain, trying to run from the pain, and did so in a manner that is a very serious sin.

01:16:38

I mean, it's even listed among damning sins, but perhaps you could comment on that. Yeah, I think that there certainly are people that end up, they're wrestling with depression as you said, with no thought of their own, and instead of turning to Christ, they turn to other things.

01:17:01

And so it could be substance abuse, it could be abusing alcohol, it could even be prescription medications that people begin to abuse in order to kind of numb themselves or to disengage mentally, emotionally from the circumstantial heat in their lives that is driving the depression, a form of escapism.

01:17:27

We see it as well with entertainment as well, you know, binge -watching, if you will,

01:17:36

Netflix, or video games. And so there are,

01:17:42

I think we need to be aware of the savior's little s that we may be running to that give promise of counterfeit false peace that leave us even more depressed and even worse than that, that are enslaving sins against God and against other people created in the image of God.

01:18:07

And so we want to be people that aren't enslaved to anything. And so yeah, be mindful if your depression is biological or if it's because you're wrestling with loss or with grief in some capacity, make sure that you're fleeing to Christ and that you're not escaping through sinful means.

01:18:40

So absolutely, that's a good word of caution there. And I think that even Christians can sometime play the mind game of thinking that if they are going through a season of depression trial, no matter what it may be, over an illness, their own illness, somebody else's illness that they love, they can think or convince themselves that I deserve this liberty to get drunk or to use this drug to numb the pain, to numb my mind.

01:19:22

They give themselves a sense of entitlement to sin, and there is no such thing as it in the eyes of God as a reason that makes you entitled to disobey

01:19:33

Him. Yeah, I think too with that, I think we shouldn't be surprised and I'm not saying, let's not be pessimistic, but let's allow the

01:19:46

Bible to renew our minds on this issue of suffering. That suffering is evil and we shouldn't call suffering good by any stretch of the imagination, but suffering is normative this side of eternity and it's going to be something that happens to us until God in Christ returns to make everything new and He chases off definitively the curse and we receive our glorified bodies when our souls are reunited to our physical bodies and so we shouldn't as Christians we shouldn't have the expectation to not suffer.

01:20:22

We shouldn't be surprised by our suffering and so I think that sometimes that can help to reinforce the victim kind of woe is me sort of mentality when we think that we shouldn't suffer or we maybe have an over -realized eschatology in which there's suffering isn't supposed to exist for the

01:20:48

Christian or that God would not allow a Christian to go through the valley of the shadow of death and so I think those things are important as well.

01:20:57

We have a listener who has just very recently been submitting questions to us.

01:21:04

Just a few days ago I believe he started. Ramon in Metro Manila Philippines and Ramon says how do you yourself keep from being depressed so you have a go -to

01:21:21

Bible verse or passage to keep from being depressed? Obviously I'm sure you would agree

01:21:28

Joey that we're not to use biblical verses as like magical spells or something.

01:21:33

But if you could answer Ramon's two questions he has there. How do you yourself keep from being depressed and do you have a go -to

01:21:42

Bible verse or passage to keep from being depressed? Those are good questions. So I wrestle with depression and anxiety and I have wrestled with it for as long as I can remember.

01:21:56

And so what I'm interested in is in the midst of my struggle

01:22:03

I don't want to despair because I think despair is sinful. And so I want to flee despair in the midst of my suffering.

01:22:12

And what has helped me immensely is certainly not it's not a what's the old saying goes take two

01:22:22

Bible verses and call me in the morning. It's certainly not that. That's not the way that we want to treat the

01:22:32

Holy Word of God. But what I have found comforting is slowly meditating on the

01:22:39

Word of God and particularly the Psalms that I cover in the book. And so Psalm 77 and Psalm 88 and Psalms 42 and 43 are some of the particular passages that I found immensely helpful but not just reading them although reading them can be immensely comforting but really trying to slowly digest them.

01:23:05

And so the Bible commends meditation and meditation I think in more modern history we hear that word and we think kind of eastern cults emptying your mind which is not what biblical meditation is.

01:23:21

It's filling the mind with the Word of God. It's to think God's thoughts after him. And when we by the

01:23:28

Spirit of God living in us are as the Apostle Paul says in Romans chapter 12 we're having the

01:23:34

Word of God renew our minds. We're taking as our own, as our very food the

01:23:41

Word of God and we're chewing it and we're digesting it slowly and we're trying to get all the nutritional value that we can possibly get out of it.

01:23:51

And meditation is a very good bridge to prayer as well.

01:23:58

And it's the Apostle Peter that reminds us that we can cast our anxieties on the

01:24:04

Lord and that the Lord cares for us. And so as we're warmly and slowly digesting the

01:24:11

Scriptures through the biblical practice of meditation we can that can be the very fuel that drives our prayers to the

01:24:21

Lord and in turn the Holy Spirit of God can comfort us and can remind us of things like you said earlier

01:24:28

Chris just about our Savior again who was the man of sorrows acquainted with grief.

01:24:34

And we know that just as he suffered and endured so can we by the Spirit of God living in us so can we suffer and endure as well.

01:24:42

So I would command you know meditate on some of those psalms, slowly work through them. A good way to meditate is by verse memorization and really internalize those passages of Scripture and turn them into prayers.

01:24:56

And so for me those have been some very practical ways in which the Lord has ministered to me as I've wrestled with depression and anxiety.

01:25:07

And so I would commend that to the listener who wrote in.

01:25:13

Ramon, thank you for the excellent questions and because of the fact that you recently when winning another book gave us the address where one of your elders is visiting in the

01:25:30

United States, we are able to give you a free copy of the book we are addressing as well because we cannot as you may recall me mentioning the last time, we cannot have cvbbs .com,

01:25:43

Carmel Wind Valley Bible Book Service ship Bibles and books that our listeners win overseas because cvbbs .com

01:25:52

would go bankrupt very quickly because of the astronomical price or cost of shipping books overseas.

01:26:01

But as God's providence would have it, you informed us of the address here in the

01:26:07

United States where your elder is visiting, so we will have the book shipped to him there.

01:26:14

Thank you very much for sending in the question. As far as depression in your life, have you seen it being used of God to actually benefit you?

01:26:34

I mean, Romans 8 28 is a promise that all things do work together for the good for those who love

01:26:41

God and are the cold according to His purpose. So have you seen your depression driving you to your knees in prayer more frequently?

01:26:52

And perhaps plunging into the Scriptures more frequently? I mean, what ways has this actually been used of God to benefit your life?

01:27:02

Yeah, it has definitely, it's driven me to be more mindful of my dependence upon the

01:27:10

Lord. There is a, I think of the Apostle Paul's commendation in Ephesians chapter 12, or Ephesians chapter 6, excuse me, where he says,

01:27:20

Be strong in the Lord in the strength of His might. Not strong in and of myself, not pull myself up by my bootstrap sort of strength, but to be strong in the

01:27:33

Lord. And so being in a place where God, even through sufferings, reminds you that you're weak and you're needy and you're dependent upon Him, there have been immense times of fellowship that I've been able to have with the

01:27:52

Lord because of it. It's certainly not something that I don't long for suffering and don't want people to go around thinking

01:28:01

I should look for ways in which to suffer because I can get close to the Lord, but God takes,

01:28:07

I can't remember who said this, this doesn't originate with me, but God takes that which

01:28:13

He hates, which is the suffering that's been introduced through the fall of Adam, and He accomplishes that which

01:28:19

He loves, which is conforming us more into the image of His Son, Jesus Christ, you know,

01:28:25

Romans 8, which you were just quoting. And so I have experienced intimacy with God from a place of personal need by going to the

01:28:35

Scriptures and by communing with God through prayer. I've also experienced the closeness of God just in Lord's Day corporate worship where, you know, again, the

01:28:45

Word of God being preached in corporate prayer and the sacraments or the ordinance preaching to us the sufficiency of Christ in our union with Him and me being able to stand with the other saints of God and to declare truths about God in melody to God along with the saints as we admonish one another.

01:29:07

God has used those things immensely in the midst of my own struggles to comfort me, to grow me, and to certainly conform me more into the image of Christ.

01:29:23

And then it's even with other people who have suffered, not even just with depression, but other people who suffer with various ailments, it can increase your compassion for other people.

01:29:35

And so, you know, the Lord has allowed me to especially in counseling and pastoring be more sensitive to the struggles of people even if I don't have their particular struggles, their particular sufferings.

01:29:54

And so I think He's been gracious in increasing my compassion for other people.

01:30:02

And I think He can, you know, whether or not He delivers, you know, you've got listeners who have been wrestling with depression for a long time.

01:30:10

We don't know if He'll deliver us from depression this side of eternity or we have to wait until we get our glorified bodies.

01:30:18

But depression, wrestling with depression doesn't mean that you can't have deep abiding joy in the

01:30:24

Lord now. It's not It doesn't cancel out joy in the

01:30:32

Lord. And so I've been able to experience immense joy in Christ even in the midst of depression, even in the midst of anxiety.

01:30:40

So I've certainly experienced the Lord's faithfulness. We have another faithful listener of Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio.

01:30:53

We have Cindy in Findlay, Ohio. Always nice to receive questions from Cindy.

01:31:01

She says, Good evening. Does your book address, and in what way, the notion of an increase in teenage depression due to overuse of social media?

01:31:13

Very good question. Yeah, we've even heard about teenagers committing suicide because they've been bullied by people and publicly mocked and scandalously slandered and all kinds of things on the internet and actually resulting in people killing themselves, which is absolutely heartbreaking and amazing.

01:31:39

But if you could respond to Cindy's question. Yeah. So I don't have any sort of extended discussion on technology per se.

01:31:49

I mention it a little bit in the book, but it can both be a place where social media is a weird place.

01:31:59

It's a very strange place, and especially in the hands of a teenager, an adolescent, it can have a lasting, shaping impact on their thinking and on their emotional health.

01:32:16

And so I would certainly commend monitoring that, both as it relates to how much it's being used, but also what's being engaged, even if what's being engaged in is seemingly innocent.

01:32:30

Everything is discipling us, and so we need to be mindful of what it is that's discipling us, what it is that's shaping our hearts.

01:32:40

But I don't go into technology per se, but I certainly get into things that you could kind of draw a parallel to in the book.

01:32:53

I would mention David... I haven't read this book, but David Murray has a book that I've heard really good things about that he published over the last couple of years.

01:33:06

It's a two -book series, if I'm remembering correctly. One is written for parents, and one's written for teenagers.

01:33:14

It's something along the lines of, why is my teenager depressed? And then there's a guide for parents.

01:33:22

I'm sure that he gets into technology in some way in that book, but I can't say for certain.

01:33:28

But it would be, you know, if your listener has a teenager that's wrestling with that, and it's related to technology, that could certainly be a beneficial resource for them,

01:33:42

I would say. Well, thank you very much, Cindy, and we already have your mailing address in Findley, Ohio, from your previous communication with this program.

01:33:54

So we will have Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service ship a copy, a free copy, of the book we are addressing today by our guest today,

01:34:05

Joey Tomlinson, The Day of Trouble, Depression Scripture and The God Who Is Near. So keep your eye open for a copy of that being shipped out to you by our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

01:34:21

And before I go to any more listener questions, because the time can very quickly escape us,

01:34:27

I want to make sure that some of those important things in your book that you have highlighted, that you emphasized, that we have not yet addressed, are covered by you.

01:34:37

And then if we have time, we'll return to some more listener questions. Yep. So, you know, maybe the easiest thing for me to do is just give a flyover as it relates to the particular chapters of the book.

01:34:54

And so it's a seven -chapter book, and then I have a conclusion that talks about the new heavens and the new earth, the new world that's on the way.

01:35:05

And the conclusion is called The Cure. But chapter one is called Approaching Depression, and in that I try to really help the reader know they're not alone.

01:35:18

I talk about various symptoms of depression. I even, right out of the gate, kind of begin the conversation as it relates to symptom management, medications, and I acknowledge the debate that exists within our

01:35:32

Christian tradition. And so I work through that in chapter one, just seeking to define depression as impossible as that really is.

01:35:42

Chapter two, I go beneath the symptoms and talk about those accelerators that I've already mentioned.

01:35:47

And so I talk about biological issues, I talk about trauma, I talk about changes in life, and then

01:35:54

I conclude with personal sin. And in the biological section, I even utilize Charles Spurgeon as an example of someone who overlaps even with trauma, just the fire those years ago when he was getting ready to preach and how that impacted him for the rest of his life about large speaking engagements.

01:36:16

But I go beneath the symptoms in chapter two. Chapter three, we begin to do a deeper dive on the psalms that I mentioned, and so particularly psalms 42 and 43, psalm 77, and psalm 88, and the target of that chapter is to help give the reader biblical words, because I think if you can articulate your struggle biblically, then you can address your struggle biblically.

01:36:44

And so that's what we look to do in chapter three. Chapter four, I utilize some questions that a psalmist asks, two questions.

01:36:56

Question one, does God change? And so I think that's, you know, for those of us that wrestle with depression, we could wonder if God has changed his posture toward us.

01:37:08

And so I address that question there. And then the second question that I pull from the psalmist is, is death my deliverance?

01:37:17

And then chapter five, I get into some more practical ways to address depression.

01:37:23

So chapter five is combating depression through corporate worship, which I think is a very primary way to address depression.

01:37:30

Chapter six is addressing depression through spiritual disciplines. Chapter seven is addressing depression through biological helps, from nutrition to exercise to sleeping to supplements.

01:37:44

And I revisit the medication conversation as well. And then, like I said, the conclusion is about the coming world when

01:37:52

Jesus returns and makes everything new. So that's kind of the flyover of the book for those that are interested in grabbing a copy.

01:38:04

Now if you could focus with more detail and practical use the emphasis you have on corporate worship as being an antidote or a medicine for depression.

01:38:22

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So in the book you'll find a footnote in there where the focus of corporate worship isn't the cure of depression.

01:38:34

The focus of worship is the glory of God and it is worshiping the

01:38:40

Lord with the gathered saints. But that it's a powerful tool that the

01:38:46

Lord can use to minister to the person struggling with depression. As I was saying earlier in the show, a defining characteristic of depression is isolation.

01:38:57

So corporate worship, and even the way I wrote the book, is designed to be read in community. I have discussion and application questions or statements or action steps at the end of each chapter.

01:39:07

But I want to get the reader in a healthy local church and struggling, so far as it depends on them, in community with people.

01:39:19

Singing is a powerful means that the Lord uses to remind you of who

01:39:25

He is. It's a powerful means the Lord uses to remind you of who you are in Christ Jesus.

01:39:31

It is a very potent weapon to chase off the darkness in our lives.

01:39:38

And so singing corporately with the church, I think is ...

01:39:44

The New Testament says it's a way of admonishing one another. That we're preaching a collective sermon to one another.

01:39:54

And certainly we need, those of us that get lost in the fog of depression, we need to be admonished.

01:40:01

And in us being admonished, we're also, you know, it's not just the focal point of us being admonished, but we're able to admonish other people going through particular circumstances.

01:40:10

It's under the preaching of the Word of God. John Calvin had the perspective that in Geneva, kind of had the perspective that when the

01:40:20

Word of God was rightly preached, that the words of God were being heard. We should go to church to hear from God.

01:40:27

When our pastor opens up the Bible, as he's saying, thus saith the

01:40:33

Lord, the Holy Spirit of God is using those words to shape us, and to mold us, and to comfort us, and to sustain us the rest of the six days of the week.

01:40:47

And so I even look, you know, the spiritual disciplines Monday through Saturday that we certainly should be engaging with, those are good, godly things.

01:40:55

Daily reading the Word, daily praying, but those are even supplemental to what the

01:41:00

Lord is doing amongst His gathering on the Lord's Day. And so the preaching of the

01:41:05

Word is even formative to the other six days of the week. Corporate prayer, as we can, in our local church, we have a time where we corporately confess sin, you know, privately, we're not confessing our sins out loud in front of everyone, but we read from the

01:41:24

Word and we have a time of confession, and then we have our assurance of pardon where we're reminded that our sins were left in the empty tomb of Christ when

01:41:33

He bodily resurrected from the grave. Being reminded of that is powerful.

01:41:39

And then we declare the Lord's death every single week as we take the

01:41:45

Lord's Supper. And we're reminded again of our union with Christ Jesus and the implications of that.

01:41:53

And when we see someone who's baptized and again, what's being preached to us is

01:41:59

God's faithfulness to save His people and our union with Him in His death and our spiritually resurrecting when

01:42:07

He bodily resurrected as we look forward to the day when we receive glorified bodies. So those are the things that we have in corporate worship that can be powerful in our lives as it relates to combating depression.

01:42:22

And so, again, that's just kind of a flyover that I certainly think is needed regardless of who you are, we should be connected to a local church.

01:42:34

But that can be immensely helpful, more than we realize that can be helpful in our struggle with depression.

01:42:40

Amen. And we have Ted in Moundville, Alabama. I was wondering if the book might be appropriate for a non -believer who has suffered with depression and has recently started showing an openness to the

01:42:53

Gospel. You know, I would hope so, and it's worth a shot, is what

01:43:01

I would say. You know, there are people that I had in mind, certainly even as I wrote the book that, as I wrote it, my prayer would be that the

01:43:12

Holy Spirit of God would warm them toward the person that is their only comforter, both in life and in death.

01:43:21

And so I would commend putting it in the hands of your unbelieving friend, but maybe doing it in such a way that you say, hey, could we maybe go through this together?

01:43:30

Like, I would love to know what you think about it. Certainly to receive the real benefit that the book offers, the

01:43:40

Holy Spirit of God would need to regenerate the heart of that individual, right? But praying toward that end and being willing, just as a humble and faithful and loving friend, to say, you know what,

01:43:52

I know you're wrestling and why don't we go through this together, I think would be a very loving thing to do.

01:44:02

Thanks, Ted. Give us your mailing address there in Moundville, Alabama and CVBBS .com

01:44:08

will ship out a free copy of the book that we are addressing with our guest

01:44:13

Joey Tomlinson, The Day of Trouble, Depression Scripture, and the God Who Is Near. Before I go to our final break,

01:44:20

I'm going to read a question to you and then I'm going to have you answer it when we return from the break because I think it's an excellent question.

01:44:28

It's another anonymous listener who says, I have battled with depression all of my adult life and I am frequently told by elders and other

01:44:40

Christians that one thing that I should be doing is rolling up my sleeves and getting involved in volunteer work, perhaps towards those who are even worse off than myself and also to reflect upon the fact that there are others on this planet who have it far worse than I do.

01:45:06

Are these, in your opinion, valuable things to do and why?

01:45:12

And we'll have you answer that question when we come back from our final break and don't go away if you have a question of your own, send it in immediately to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

01:45:23

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01:53:18

Joey, as you likely recall, before the break, an anonymous listener, was wondering if he was receiving sound advice from elders and Christians that a good way of combating and overcoming depression is to be volunteering your labors to assist in a whole host of things that involve helping the needy, less fortunate than ourselves, etc.,

01:53:52

and also to reflect upon the fact that there are people on this planet who have a far worse lot in life than our own.

01:54:02

Are these things helpful, in your opinion, to overcome depression in the lives of Christians?

01:54:11

I think it's certainly helpful in combating it. It can help to give perspective, right?

01:54:22

We have not personally suffered the worst in the history of suffering, right?

01:54:29

We can look to Christ, the only innocent person who's ever suffered really a true victim, and we can see in the sufferings of Christ what his suffering well led to, which was the redemption of his people, the redemption of his church, but certainly with the people that the

01:54:51

Lord providentially puts in our lives, it can be immensely helpful to be able to broaden your perspective and to have eyes for those who are presently suffering, and so far as it depends on you to seek to be present with them and be helpful for them, and if there's some other need that needs to be met, that if the

01:55:19

Lord allows to be able to meet that need too, and what the Lord does in that is like I said a moment ago, he broadens your perspective, right?

01:55:26

We have brothers and sisters all throughout church history who have suffered immensely at no fault of their own.

01:55:33

We have even Christians around the world in places where it's illegal to gather as God's church that have suffered immensely at no fault of their own.

01:55:47

You mean like California? Yeah, like California. I was actually, Canada even came to my mind here recently with all the

01:55:54

COVID lockdowns and what we've seen them do to pastors just for gathering as God's church in the midst of everything, and so I would agree that there can be benefit to broadening your perspective and not seeing yourself as the sole sufferer because when you see that, you can become embittered.

01:56:16

Yeah, of course, laboring on behalf of the less fortunate is always a good thing whether you're depressed or not.

01:56:23

Yeah. And of course the only time it ever becomes a bad thing is if you are robbing time from your own spouse and children to far too great an extent.

01:56:34

I'm not saying that you don't take any time away from them. I mean that goes with being an obedient Christian that sometimes spouses and children have to wait, but when you are being abusive over that issue, that's the only time helping out the less fortunate can become a negative in some of these lives.

01:56:53

Well, we have two minutes for you to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today before we go off the air.

01:57:00

Thank you, and Chris, thank you again for having me, brother. I really appreciate the opportunity. What I hope listeners who choose to read the book can walk away with is seeing and savoring

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Jesus Christ even more and seeing him as their suffering Savior who suffered well and the

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Savior who according to Matthew chapter 28 and various, Psalm 110 and the preacher to the

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Hebrew church, he has all authority in heaven and on earth and that means he has authority over us and he has authority over our depressed emotions and that the

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Lord truly is near you, he's near you as you because your body is a temple of the

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Holy Spirit he's near you as you read the Word of God and as the Holy Spirit transforms you through the reading of the

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Word of God and he's near you as you speak to him that he truly hears you and so my hope and prayer is that as people wrestle with their own day of trouble that they truly would be comforted by the

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God who's near. Amen. And once again folks, if you want to find out more information about the church where Joey Tomlinson serves as a pastor and elder,

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Deer Park Fellowship in Newport News, Virginia, go to dpfellowship .org

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dp for Deer Park fellowship .org and if you want to find out more about this book we were giving away, thanks to the generosity of Joey Tomlinson who actually purchased out of his own pocket the books that we have been giving to our listeners.

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If you want to find out more about this book go to hesedandemet .com the publisher h -e -s -e -d a -m -b e -m -e -t .com

01:58:55

hesedandemet .com and you can find out more about this book and I would urge you to purchase it, however, from one of our sponsors,

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Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com cv for Cumberland Valley bbs for biblebookservice .com

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they carry all of Hesed and Emmet's titles. Well, I want to thank you so much for being such an extraordinary guest today,

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Joey. I look forward to your return to the program. I want to thank everybody who listened. I hope that you all have a safe and blessed and joyful and glorious Christmas Eve and Christmas Day and Lord's Day.

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Let's not forget the most important thing, Sunday Christmas Day is the Lord's Day and I look forward to hearing from you next week with questions for our guests.

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I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater