July 11, 2018 Show with Kirk van der Swaagh on “Compassion Without Compromise in the Heart of a Liberal City”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron so one

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

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wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

This is Chris Arns and your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 11th day of

July 2018 and today we're getting our swag on on Iron

Sharpens Iron or should I say we're getting our SWA on because we have as our guest today Pastor

Kirk Vanderswaal and he is pastor of the Neighborhood Church of Greenwich Village in New York City

and he is returning as our guest today after a very long absence and we are going to be addressing the very

important subject of compassion without compromise in the heart of a liberal city

and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron after a very long time, Pastor Kirk

Vanderswaal.

Well thank you Chris.

Yes in fact it's been at least since 2011 might be

earlier because I believe the last time you were on was when we were broadcasting out of New York on

WNYG radio in Babylon, Long Island.

I'm almost certain that you are part of the Pastors Roundtable.

That's right.

In fact I'm hoping to relaunch that as a Friday feature of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

for those of you listening who are unfamiliar with the old show.

I think we started to do it every Friday after a while.

Perhaps it started once a month but I think that after a while we had every Friday the Pastors Roundtable which featured

between three and five pastors from different congregations who would just

field questions on any subject that the listeners wanted to ask and at that time we had a

call -in show but if we relaunched that it will likely be a an email -in

show like we have now but if by the way if anybody would like to email us with

a question for Pastor Kirk Vanderswa, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com that's C

-H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com and please give us your first name your city

and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA and please only remain anonymous if

your question involves a personal and private matter and we look forward to hearing from you with your questions.

Before we go into your personal testimony of salvation because when we have guests

on and I know that you're not a first -time guest but you are a first -time guest on the new Iron Sherpins Iron Radio

broadcasting out of Pennsylvania and we have a lot of new listeners that

had not heard of us when we were broadcasting out of New York so we will have

you if you don't mind giving a summary of your testimony of salvation but before we do that I want

you to tell our listeners something about the Neighborhood Church of Greenwich Village in New York City and also

about the CCCC denomination otherwise known as the Four C's.

Alright, well,

Neighborhood

Church of

Greenwich

Village,

we're on

Bleecker

Street

route since 1970s, in the

70s, been here,

it's a

great

place.

And as I mentioned earlier, your church is a part of the denomination known as the Four

C's which stands for the Conservative Congregational Christian Conference, if you could tell us something about

that.

Yeah, the Four C's came out of a larger group that

was formed, I think it's 1936, I've got that date

right, and

what that was is a,

there was a

community in

that denominator to

form a

group.

And you said that the

the

conference

is not

confessional

but are

there.

Congregations and perhaps yours that are?

I know that the Great Savoy Declaration is the confession of the Congregationalists

going back centuries, in fact I am a Reformed Baptist as you know

and our church, Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, which is a very historic

Reformed Baptist Church, part of the, one of the core churches in the

particular Baptist resurgence of the 1950s and 60s, Walt Chantry

was a pastor where I am a member for 40 years and the man who planted the church was Ernie

Riesinger who is a key figure in Reformed Baptist history.

But we adhere to the 1689 London Baptist Confession and as you may know

the 1689 London Baptist Confession or the the framers of that confession openly

borrowed heavenly from not only the Westminster Confession but also the Savoy Declaration.

Tell us about the Savoy, whether you officially adhere to it or just make it available and so

on, if you could tell us a little bit.

About that confession.

Yes, Savoy, indeed, 1658, so it's about ten years after the

Westminster

and it's

ten years

worth of

interesting

changes and

additions

in Walker

and

Reformed

Congregations.

Amen.

Now

why

did

the

Neighborhood

Church

of

Greenwich.

Village select the Four Seas as a conference to join?

Out of all the denominations and fellowships and so on, why was this specifically something that

attracted the leaders at that time that that decision was made?

What was it that.

Drew you

into

that?

Well,

it's

somewhat

interesting.

Frankly,

I started

and what

happened

was

that I got involved in Operation Rescue back in the late

80s, if you remember.

Oh yeah, yeah.

And I became very good friends, so when

I came out they...

Oh yeah,

they had a very.

Landmark legal decision there made when they were worshiping in a school at the.

Time,

right?

That's right,

yeah, and more

identified even more so.

The village was a fringe place and we were a fringe little church, you know, and I just

thought

this

relationship

with

more

and

more

Reformed

theologies

but

also

other things

that go on.

The first

one I

went to,

we've done

what we

needed

to do

to make sure the gospel,

the things that

drew us.

And if you

could,

some of our.

Listeners may not be confessional, they may be not Reformed, they may

be novices or new believers.

If you could give us a summary of what distinguishes a congregational

polity from other forms of polity like elder rule and others.

Ecclesiastical

views its

own

ministers

to

have

offices

in a church.

That's

not

the case

within

Congregationalism.

Yes, and I

happen to

have

a gorgeous

print of

the

famous.

Painting of the Westminster Assembly where the representative of Congregationalism

was standing up to say a few words.

Are you familiar with this very famous print?

No, if I've seen it, I don't recall it.

Yeah, if you saw it, I bet you'd say, oh yeah, of course I know what you're talking about.

By the way, you could get that poster at reformationart .com,

reformationart .com, and forward slash Westminster dash assembly

dash poster.

I think that that should get you there.

But anyway, this is a, I think, an important

thing for us to do so we really get a good idea of where our guests are coming from and

their history and their background.

And for those of our listeners who don't remember you from our old interview in New

York and have been unfamiliar with you since, perhaps if you could give us a

summary of your salvation testimony, what kind of religion you were raised in, if any,

and how our Sovereign Lord drew you to himself, saved you, and drew you to the doctrines of

Sovereign Grace.

I grew up.

Going

to

church,

and

you

know,

after

high

school

I

went

to

high

council,

and

you

know,

one night I was,

and it sounds

a

little

bit like

a Frank Capra movie prayer, but I

went

for myself

and

helped

some men down here

do some, and I've

been to

some good churches, gospel preaching churches, and I just

knew every time I was one of them.

I was a child of God.

Well

when we come

back

from

the

break,

I'd also like to.

Hear about how you knew the Lord called you into the pastoral ministry, and then we'll move on from there to our

major theme of the day, and for those of you who just tuned in, our major theme today

is Compassion Without Compromise in the Heart of a Liberal City, and if you'd like to join us on the

air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and please only

remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away, we will be right back right after these messages with more of Kirk Vanderswa.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Zarnes, and if you just tuned in to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, our guest today for the full two hours, with about 90 minutes to

come, is Kirk van der Swaag, although if you tried to Google that, you'd probably never guess how that's

spelled.

In fact, Kirk, I think you're the only person I know whose last name is three words.

Van der Swaag, but it's pronounced Swa as obviously you know.

S -W -A -A -G -H, and I'm assuming that is Dutch.

It is Dutch.

And Kirk is obviously the Scottish word for church, which is a providential thing

since you were not a born -again believer in Christ until later on in your life.

That's.

Right, I

mean,

that's all that's...

Well, tell us about the providential.

Circumstances that arose in your life that made you aware and become convinced

that the Lord was calling you into the pastoral ministry.

Well, I've seen

leadership, and what.

Happened with

that

was,

and

that

was,

and

some

of

these

pastors

came, they

felt,

well,

we think

that, and the other two came along,

and

they

asked questions.

I had

asked

at that Monday morning

for a

while, and

driving

up, and

yeah.

Well,

I think the

first,

go

ahead, I'm

sorry.

Oh, just interestingly enough, the other fellow.

Great, and I think, if

I'm not.

Mistaken, the first time I met you was at the congregation once pastored by the voice,

or the man behind the voice of that ad that everyone heard just moments ago, Bill

Shishko, who was once the pastor of, until very recently, of the Orthodox

Presbyterian Church of Franklin Square, and what a dear friend he has been since the 1980s when

I was first saved by God's mercy, and he is now a domestic

missionary with Reformation Metro New York and host of the radio program, A Visit to the Pastor's Study,

and I believe I met you at his annual ministers conference, or ministers

gathering.

Well, I think I only got to one.

Of those, and that's why I met you.

Wow, that's something.

Yeah, you know what I remember about that, and I've mentioned it at times, is that I asked, I brought a couple of guys with

me, and we left, I said, you know, what did you notice about the people of

God out there?

And I remember

that, and.

Amen, and Bill used to kindly invite me to that every year, even though it was

exclusively for ministers, ordained ministers, pastors, and I was not in that category, but because I was working in radio,

Bill used to invite me every year because he had a burden for churches to use the radio as a

tool to spread the gospel and to teach biblically sound truth, and Bill being a radio

man himself all the way back to his college days, he would invite me every year, so I

met a number of people that have become lifelong friends at those annual ministers conferences.

Well, now we are going to dive into the subject at hand,

Compassion Without Compromise in the Heart of a Liberal City.

First of all, I know you've already done some description or given some description for Greenwich Village,

New York.

To many people in and outside of New York, it is known

as a hub of homosexual activity.

I don't know how much of that identity dominates Greenwich Village today,

but it certainly at least fits a stereotype that many people have in their

minds.

How much of that stereotype is actual.

Reality?

Oh yeah,

I can

recall

when

I

used

to

work for

WMCA.

Radio, when it used to be located in Rutherford, New Jersey, then

Hasbrook Heights, New Jersey.

I know it's in Manhattan now, but where it actually began in the 1920s.

But I remember taking the PATH train from Hoboken and

actually originating in New York, going to Hoboken on the way to work when I

had to go to sales meetings.

And I can remember the PATH train early in the morning, like 6 a .m., maybe even earlier

than that, maybe more like 5 a .m., passing through Christopher Street.

And I remember surrounding the car every time I passed through that stop, you

just saw crowds of what were obviously transvestite prostitutes

hanging around there by the car.

But obviously, at least back in the 90s when I worked for WMCA

and through the early 2000s, a.

Prominent sin in that area.

Yeah, that dynamic is still

present, though

not

nearly

as much.

Well, one of the reasons I wanted you to have a discussion on Iron Trip and Zion Radio

today is because it is a difficult task for Christians

when they are reaching out to a lost community surrounding them.

It's hard enough when you're dealing with your average American lost

person, your average suburbanite who is

just a perhaps a blue -collar worker who just

can't wait to get home from work and turn the game on and they want to sleep in on

Sunday and then when they wake up they want to watch another game and, you know, they want to have a barbecue.

They have no interest in going to church.

It's hard enough to reach out to those folks with the love and compassion of Christ but

infinitely easier than when you have a hostile community that

is spiritually hostile toward you, very often politically hostile toward you,

ideologically hostile toward you.

And how is a Bible -believing church, a church that

believes in the inerrancy of Scripture, believes that the condemnations against

homosexual activity, as well as any sexual activity outside of marriage,

how does one maintain faithfulness to biblical orthodoxy without

compromise when you're trying to not scare away or turn away or

unnecessarily offend those around you?

Because obviously the gospel is going to offend any unbeliever unless the Lord

regenerates that person's heart and opens their eyes and ears and minds.

But if you could, give us a brief explanation before we go to our midway break and then

you can continue with.

That

explanation.

Okay.

Yeah,

I

would

say

it's

been...

And

if you

could,

if

you

could.

Pick up right where you left off there, because we have to go to our midway break now.

And if anybody would like to join us, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages with Kirk Vanderswa.

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Before I return to our guest Kirk Vanderswa of the Neighborhood Church of Greenwich Village today,

we have some special and very important announcements to make as far as special events are

concerned.

We have our friends at the Fellowship Conference New England conducting their annual conference

August 2nd through the 4th at the Deering Center Community Church in Portland, Maine.

And the speakers this year include Pastor Tim Conway, Pastor Mack Tomlinson, Pastor Jesse

Barrington, and Pastor Nate Pikowitz.

If you want more information about the Fellowship Conference New England, go to fellowshipconferencenewengland .com,

fellowshipconferencenewengland .com, and that's August 2nd through the 4th in Portland, Maine.

Then coming up in November from the 9th through the 10th, the Alliance of

Confessing Evangelicals is having their annual Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology.

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Glory of the Cross.

The speakers include David Garner, Ray Ortlund, Richard Phillips, Timothy Gibson,

and Carlton Winn.

If you'd like to register for that conference, go to alliancenet .org, alliancenet .org, and

then click on events, and then scroll down to the Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology, November

9th through the 10th at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Quaker Town, Pennsylvania.

Then coming up in January, I am so excited like a kid in a

candy store, like a kid waiting to unwrap his Christmas presents for the G3

Conference in Atlanta, Georgia.

They are expecting over 4 ,000 people to attend the G3 Conference, which stands for Grace, Gospel, and Glory.

It is a reformed conference being held at the Georgia International Convention Center in College Park,

Georgia, which is a suburb of Atlanta, and this will be my third year there.

Manning and Exhibitors booth for Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

The conference will be held Thursday, January 17th through Saturday, January 19th,

and there will be a Spanish -speaking edition of the conference on Wednesday, January

16th.

The speakers at this phenomenal conference include Paul Washer, John

Piper, Steven Lawson, Votie Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad

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chancellor at African Christian University.

Tim Challies, Phil Johnson of John MacArthur's ministry, Grace to you.

Josh Bice, who is the director of the G3 Conference.

Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, and many more.

If you would like to register for the G3 Conference, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com,

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Exhibitors booth there, as I am having, as I am Manning, God willing, and it is a very

valuable conference to sponsor an Exhibitors booth.

If you have a church, parachurch ministry, business, or other type of organization that

you want to promote to the 4 ,000 plus people milling around at that conference,

so if you have that in mind, also go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com.

Please tell all of these organizations running these conferences that you heard about

them from Chris Arnzen of Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Last but not least, this is my least favorite time of the program, but it's something that needs to be done.

If you love the show, and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, please donate to Iron Trip and Zion

Radio as much as you can and as often as you can by going to irontripandzionradio .com,

click support, and then click click to donate now, and you could donate instantly with a debit or

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If you're not a member of a local Bible believing church, and you're not prayerfully looking for one, you are living in rebellion against God.

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Send us an email to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

And put advertising in the subject line, whatever it is you're advertising, whether it's your church, your parachurch ministry, your business,

your professional practice, whether you're a doctor, a lawyer, a dentist, a chiropractor, or if it's just a special event you're having, as long as

whatever it is you are promoting is compatible with what we believe here, we would love to help you launch an ad

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compatible with what we believe.

Send me an email to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you could send an email to Pastor Kirk Vanderswa of the Neighborhood Church of

Greenwich Village, and the email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail

.com, ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, and please give us your first name, your

city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside.

A good old USA, only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Before we went to the break, Pastor Kirk, and by the way I apologize I forgot to tell you if you didn't know

already that our midway break is very long because Grace Life Radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City Florida

requires of us a 12 -minute break between our two major segments because they air their own commercials and

public service announcements during that period, so I apologize for forgetting to remind you since you were probably waiting there

for a long time, but before the break we were talking about how

those in the community of Neighborhood Church of Greenwich Village who are,

for lack of a better term, enemies of the gospel, they were viewing your evangelism and your expressions

of compassion and outreach to them as nothing but hostile attacks

against them, and if you could pick up.

Where

you left

off.

Yes, it

has

to do,

right?

I mean, at

least

within this activity at

one,

and suddenly

our

message

became

clear after when

they're

not

looking

at

really by people

to

try

to engage,

we offer

one

and

every

month

we

have

the

next, and

right

in

the

middle

of

the West,

like

sort

of like

with

the French

Resistance, you

know, we're

trying

to, we try

to

open

up our

doors to

what.

That being,

I

think

that conference

issue

that was

of your listeners

and any of your

church, I don't want

to

presume,

but I know...

We have

a question

from

CJ from

Lindenhurst,.

Long Island, New York, and CJ says, while I recognize that what you are describing is

indeed a true phenomena, sometimes I have seen something that I believe to be

theologically and spiritually dangerous where churches and denominations and individual

Christians place people struggling with same -sex attraction into a

category as if they are a third gender, that God made them that way, and therefore the

most they can hope for is a chaste life rather than a transformed life,

where they actually become not only born again, but they can also enjoy a

maritable life as a heterosexual.

What is your reaction to what I just said?

Yeah,.

Well, I would agree with that.

Right,

and

there are eunuchs,

there are eunuchs in

the body

of

Christ.

Right, yeah,

so

just like we

would

with

other

human beings,

there are a

lot of people, men and women,

who are just

born in them, that's where

they've been drawn,

and how do we walk?

Amen.

For

other people, it's

plenty of walking

to go

around, so.

My dear friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries was the first,

probably in the early 2000s or so, to point out a point

of view that I had never heard articulated before, because I

was among those that had nothing but a gutturally,

knee -jerk, angry, nauseated

reaction to the idea that people could be born with the proclivity to

homosexuality, and I said, no, no, no, that can't happen.

But James White pointed out to me, and he's a Reformed Baptist, a strong believer in the doctrine of

total depravity, and he said, well, if we are all, by nature,

born totally depraved, conceived totally depraved, that would entail all

kinds of proclivities that would develop in us from the earliest

development of our childhood, and some might have a proclivity towards anger, or

to murder, or to thievery, or to alcoholism, or all kinds of things, why would

homosexuality be any different?

And he was not saying this to condone that activity at all, he was just saying that we can't

rule out that in the depravity of the human soul, that might be a proclivity that someone has

right from when they first start to.

Develop the capacity

to think

sexually.

Yeah, well, they're trying

to be

former President of the United States,

they've got laws in the land all telling them that they're wrong,

right?

Yeah, I mean, in fact, they look down upon all of us who.

Are Christians who have a biblical view of this as a sin, and as a damnable sin, they look at us as

monsters and morons and just outright evil people, if we're not celebrating, they

don't want us to just tolerate it, they want us to.

Celebrate it.

I think

then you've

got Brothers'

Discipleship

Help,

just

like we

try

to find discipleship, I'll tell you what my issue is,

and to take

them over.

There.

Amen, and I think it is though, as our listener indicated in his

question, I think it's very important that we not view

the romantic desires of homosexuals, or I don't even like using that word, of those

prone to desire same -sex activity, that we

not look at the desire as something innocuous or.

Benign, the desire itself is

sin.

And

just

to

reiterate

about

the.

Fact that you cannot use a proclivity that you may have had since birth or since

early childhood as an excuse to do something, there have even been studies, whether they're correct or not, but there have

been studies that I have seen involved in documentaries where men

who have a very extremely high level of testosterone

are more prone to murder and violent activity.

Well that doesn't excuse that, just because you may have this high level of testosterone, you know that

whatever people may think gives them some kind of an

out or a way to excuse sinful

activity, you don't have it.

You have to flee to Christ for the covering of his blood and for the regenerating power of his Holy Spirit.

Well

it's

interesting that

you're saying

that we

would

pursue.

Normalcy, but at the same time we are a peculiar people.

Aren't we as Christians?

We are unique.

Amen.

We have to go to our

final break, it's going to be a lot.

Briefer than the last one, and if you'd like to join us on the air with a question, do so now or forever hold your peace because we're

running out of time.

Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and only remain anonymous if your

question involves a personal and private matter.

I can see this topic very easily lending itself to a personal question, so give us

an email before we run out of time, chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Don't go away, we'll be right back, God willing, with Kirk Vonderswaar.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in, our guest has been for the last 90 minutes, and will be for the next 20 minutes,

Kirk Vanderswa, pastor of the Neighborhood Church of Greenwich Village in New York City.

We are discussing compassion without compromise in the heart of a liberal city.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, and do so now if you intend to,

because we're rapidly running out of time.

We have Bob in Westchester, New York,

and Bob wants to know if you ever heard of the book When the Wicked Seize a City by Chuck

McElhenney.

That's an excellent book.

It's excellent.

Chuck McElhenney was the pastor at one time of the First

Orthodox Presbyterian Church of San Francisco, California.

In fact, my landlord was also once the pastor of that church.

I believe before Chuck, but I can't remember if it was before or after.

I think it was before.

But Chuck was the pastor there, and when the organ player at that

congregation was discovered to be an unrepentant person

involved in homosexual activity, when he was told that he had to repent or he would be

put under church discipline, he refused, was excommunicated, and he

sued that church for being fired as the organist and for being excommunicated from the

congregation.

And the homosexual activists of San Francisco unleashed their fury on this congregation,

leaving hundreds of answering machine messages this is back in the day when they actually called

them answering machines, threatening to kidnap, molest, and

murder his children and all kinds of grotesque things.

They actually attempted to burn the parsonage to the ground when Chuck and his wife and children

were fast asleep in their home, and thankfully thankfully Chuck woke up in the middle of the night and saw the light flickering

outside his window and realized the house was on fire and they all escaped unscathed.

And it's quite a remarkable book.

There was never any arrests made in San Francisco for this crime.

But Chuck McElhaney, I've got to say, in spite of this kind of attack from the

homosexual activist community, he remained steadfast and reaching out with compassion and love to these

people.

And even after this incident, you know, there would be transvestites and

transsexuals even visiting the congregation and they were out of curiosity or out of

just a curiosity to see if there was truly hope in Christ and in

Christianity.

And he developed, he and his wife developed friendships there.

So they never became bitter and hateful even though they received that kind of

reaction.

And they remained there for a number of, quite a number of years as the pastor.

There.

Well,

as you

relate

to that

story,

I remember at

that time

and

part of

it, and I

mean, it hasn't happened to us in a while, I suppose somebody might say, well, that's because you're not being annoying enough, I guess.

But it's, as I said earlier, I mean, our...

One

main

thing of interest in that whole story with Pastor.

McElhaney, and by the way, I have interviewed him on a number of occasions on the old Iron Trip and Zion Radio program.

If anybody wants a recording of one of those or all of those interviews, they can email me.

But the secular media did not cover, none of the secular

media in California or anywhere in the United States that they're aware of, covered that story.

And you could imagine if a group of people professing to be Christians like the

God Hates Fags cult, if they had done something similar, burned down a

community center that was populated by homosexuals or something, you would hear about that on the

television in Siberia.

I mean, you would have heard that everywhere in the world, and it's amazing how the reverse was

not true.

But yeah, you know, I think that.

There is

a way,

and

I

think we

just

want to

remember

that,

you

know,

and

I think,

you know,

with all

other kinds,

and yet this way, and

have a heart that's

actually

been an

upkeep, right?

Not

condoning

their

sin

without giving it

to the terms of where we feel as though somehow we're no longer being

gospel preachers, and

I

recognize the power the current, you know, phenomenon represents.

It's really powerful.

We're the only institution.

Oh

yeah,

you.

Definitely made sense.

In fact, we have a listener who wants to ask you a question about what you said.

We have Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, who said, although I agree with much of what

you said, and perhaps the part that I disagree with, I am misunderstanding, but I don't

believe that it is outside the realm of appropriate behavior for Christians to be involved

politically as individuals to stop the institutions of higher learning and other

places, especially where children are being educated, from the lie that

homosexuality is to be celebrated to continue and to dominate there.

Yeah, no,.

I'll stand with

him

on that, absolutely.

Talking about it

in any kind of wishy

-washy way.

Find love, and

yet,

you know, not so

much love.

Yes, the

Christian

Church is

the

only.

Institution where we are called to rescue our enemies, and

not to give them aid and comfort to remain in their sin, to call them out of their sin,

but at the same time, approach them with love, let them know

that they're wrong.

In fact, one of the things that disturbs me about those that profess to be evangelical who

pamper, if for lack of a better term, pamper those involved with homosexual activity out of

political correctness, they're pampering them.

And out of fear perhaps of legal ramifications or just becoming unpopular,

they act as if they're doing those involved in homosexual activity a favor by candy

-coating what's going on.

They're not doing them any favor at all because it is a damnable sin.

Among other sins, it's not the only damnable sin, but it is.

Damnable.

Yeah, and

it really

is

grievous

when

people

who have

the

title

of evangelical just cave

on this stuff,

and I know, I don't

know, but it is.

Well, I'd.

Like you to now give us about a minute of summary of what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of

our listeners before they leave this program today.

I.

Guess I go back to what I was just talking about.

It's just become something

that I've,

and I think

we're not,

look, we don't

sound like

we're for

self -interest, but we are for the love of Jesus.

We do have time for one more.

Anonymous listener who wants to know what organizations or ministries do you most highly

recommend for those struggling with same -sex attraction that.

Desire to

repent and be

obedient to Christ?

I would

point...

Great, and I

want to.

Make sure that our listeners have all of the contact information they need for you.

First of all, the Neighborhood Church of Greenwich Village in New York City, their

website is NCGVNYC, or Neighborhood Church of Greenwich

Village, New York City, NCGVNYC.

Also, the denominational, or should I say the conference website, is

cccusa .com, that's cccusa

.com, and I know that the Reformed Congregational Ministry

website is reformedcongregational .org, reformedcongregational .org.

Do you have any other contact information that you care to give?

Just at the end of the NCGVNYC is .com.

Oh, I'm sorry.

That's okay.

And our phone number, we have phone

number 212 -691 -1770, 212 -691 -1770, and an email address.

Happy to respond to anyone, and we welcome you to

worship with us.

Amen, and I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write in questions.

I want to thank you, Pastor Kirk, for being on the show.

I look forward to your return.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

than you are a sinner.