Response to Sheikh Awal (Part 4)

The Gospel of Luke and the Resurrection Appearance

He's just starting to wrap up here, but he was just in the section talking about the the total corruption of the Bible and Things like that.

Why do thoughts arouse in your mind and heart? It is I myself handle me and see for a spirit have no flesh and bones as you see me. Because they thought he's dead. He said it is I myself. Touch me and see look you think I'm a spirit handle me and see for a spirit meaning any spirit have no flesh and bones.

As you see me how can they touch him. And why they were not happy for joy? And he wants to convince them feather that it is him flesh and bones. He said have you here any meat to eat. And they gave him broiled fish and honeycomb and he took it and he ate it in their very side and they were overjoyed.

And they went and told the other disciple and they told they told Thomas the Doubting Thomas and said they said Thomas watch what they say. They said Thomas we have seen the master and that he was alive.

They didn't say Thomas we have seen the master and that he was resurrected. If the whole now, of course.

Anyone reading John and Allowing John to be John knows exactly what they mean. They say we have seen him and he's alive the whole reason for that. They're not going. Oh, we've been deceived. We were we were wrong or or John you were at the foot of the cross.

And you misled us and I don't know how anyone can read the text just so completely out of its own context. But the argument honestly here is we'll see. They said he was alive not that he had been raised from the dead and so they didn't believe Jesus died on a cross now.

No one just reading John would come up with that. But the mindset here and I realize a lot of people go This kind of argumentation is just so poor. But the point is That you're probably gonna be talking to a person who's never read the text of John for themselves.

You have to know where to go to demonstrate that they're misreading this text and The the reaction of utter amazement of how can you miss that so badly is not an argument to them. You you have to be able to with some level of patience.

Say well, you know that that's that's very interesting, but that doesn't seem to be even slightly Possible if you just allowed John to be John and and point out that John was at the cross and You know, were you aware of that?

In this is this instance of people listening to shake a wall. They don't know that he's given them no indication of that and so you have to be able to respond to those those particular things and to understand the mindset that.

That many of them have such a radical radical idea of the corruption of the New Testament that they feel warranted in Isolating entire portions of the text that completely changed the meaning such as well John was actually there they can they can get rid of that and ignore that by just simply saying if it doesn't agree with Islam, therefore, it must not be true and Some people would say well, you know this gentleman's arguments really aren't a up to the level of a Shabir Ali but remember remember and I present this and every time I talk about Islam I present this section, but Even in that context.

Remember the question I asked should be or during cross-examination the very first debate we did I said as a Muslim Can you tell us how we can recognize what is and what is not inspired in? The text of the Bible.

What was his response? That which agrees with the Quran would be and that which disagrees wouldn't be and So you really do have this it you know, it's it's the old illustration, but it's a good illustration.

They they have these the lens through which they're looking at the New Testament is the Quran. Now the Quran comes long after The New Testament and so you would think it would be the other way around but It becomes the lens.

And so when the Quran in interacting with the Injil Contradicts that and the whole question is why does it contradict that why it was the author of the Quran on where are these things? But when it comes those areas, then they'll just go well, you know, I Don't have to worry about that portion because I can take this portion read it in a way that fits with Islam and say your book is supporting me of Course, they would never allow you to read the Quran that way and is that consistent inconsistency?

That is that is the problem because inspired in the you would have said Thomas We have seen the master and that he was disrupted. But they say Thomas we have seen the master and that he was alive meaning we expect him to die.

But he didn't die. He was alive. Suppose you have an accident and that accident looks like you're going to die. But later, you know, the first of his brought the jaw of life. They bring you out. So oh my god, they are alive meaning they did not die.

So Jesus Christ did not die on the cross. He did not die on the cross. But it was made to appear to them. So.

Because they don't have the exact knowledge of what and that's where that one cut off. So I'm gonna continue on with the next one. Which was because that was right at the end of his presentation as I recall.

So I'm gonna continue on with the next one, which is the rebuttal period. Unfortunately, the the Christian debater really did not respond to almost any of that. He he just went back to Saying well, the Bible says this and the Bible says not that.

Not so much answering all the Misrepresentations has just been given and so he then gets up for his rebuttal period.

Mr. Lazaro just brought the charges that I Was not I was out of context I was not talking look because I've given you the quotation to prove that Jesus Christ did not die on the cross. Now If he died on the cross then we will talk about salvation.

But the question what I did was I've given you over 20 verses or so From your scripture that Christ did not die on the cross and I gave you reasons upon reasons and I was on top of the topic Salvation through Jesus Christ through the Quran or through the Bible.

Now if Christ did not die then that means there's no salvation. So what I did was I dismantled the concept of salvation. Uproot it completely from your books. That's what I did.

And now and I'm sure that's exactly what he feels that he's doing. He clearly does not see That. You can deal with any ancient text or modern text in an irrational fashion. You can you can take anything apart.

You can ignore anything. You can you can ignore context. You can you know, that's that's not difficult to do even if you do memorize the text and things like that and make it much more impressive that way but.

But to say that I've uprooted it from your own Text would mean that you were actually treating them In their original context and what and in the way that their original authors intended them to be understood.

That's the only way you could do it truthfully anyways. And he's not done that as I've begun to do that his his opponent had pointed out well, you're you're ignoring this issue and that that issue and and You know, which is the only thing you can say but then you have to be able to go in and demonstrate those things contextually but I'm sure he actually does believe that and it requires a Christian who knows their their scriptures to be able to.

Provide that kind of response to talking about in Islam. There's no salvation. Really? There's no salvation as Jesus didn't. Jesus said if you want to go to heaven keep the law of Moses. This month came to ask him.

I've given you already Matthew 29 16. This man wants to go to heaven. What good must I do to enter life eternally to enter heaven eternally. And Jesus Christ said if you want to enter heaven keep the Commandment of Moses and that is the law.

It and we already pointed out that that's not what Jesus said. When you actually look at the text and read all of it He mentions some of the commandments and the man's response is I've kept these from my youth and Jesus's response is if you would be perfect then do what go and sell all that you have and come follow me.

Now even even if we didn't go any deeper than that. The fact that this demonstrates that Jesus knows the heart of this man. He knows that. At the very root of his problem is idolatry he loves his stuff more than he loves God and He is putting his finger upon that.

So there's there's something supernatural going on here. I mean this man just comes up to Jesus and Jesus knows exactly what his problem is. I Mean, there's something supernatural there, but even leaving that aside Listening to the youth that Sheikha wall is using the text right here.

Isn't it sufficient to note that Jesus says? Sell you possess and Come follow me he adds following Jesus. So is Sheikha wall really going to suggest to us that Jesus's own teaching was the Islamic way and that is follow The law of God perfectly and follow Christ.

The whole point of the Christian message is no one ever did the first no one could ever do both. That would be a complete mission impossible plan of salvation. But but the point is again to even present the idea that Jesus is presenting the Islamic viewpoint here requires that he never actually Quote the whole text to the people in the audience and if there was a meaningful response being offered the Christian would have pointed that out and gone directly to text and Said this is what he's not telling you in this text.

And this is what he's not telling you in that text. But unfortunately that that didn't happen. If if Lord blesses and and everything stays on track for next month. That will happen if that kind of argument is is presented when I have the opportunity of responding.

Now at least that did y 'all catch that. Yeah, that's something that that believe it or not I think over over time you you might start even recognizing that that's called the shahada and The only reason I stop it right there is that there are certain people.

I mean that that flows off the tongue of any Muslim with such ease. Because they say it over and over and over in all the prayers and So anybody who was actually ever a practicing devout Muslim would never confuse that with the beginning of surat al-fatiha.

No, I don't think they would. Period. You believe in Allah and his messengers and the books and then you do good. And that is exactly what the Bible said way in the book of Ecclesiastes chapter 12. There's 13 it says.

Listen to the end of the matter. This is the whole matter. Follow God do good and act upon the laws and commandments. Because upon that God will judge you in the day of judgment. Simple clicker statement.

As if Ecclesiastes is even meant to start being a full Explication of the entirety of the biblical doctrine of salvation. I mean Ecclesiastes. What's the whole book about? The futility of life outside of having a divine view.

Over and over again. It's utility. It's utility. It's utility. I saw this Injustice arose all that and it is it is a poetic Discussion of what life would be like if you did not recognize the purpose of God.

But that comes long after the giving of the law the sacrifices the prophecies of the coming Messiah and his work and all these other things to isolate that one text say well, this is it. And to say see it's from your own books.

Well, if you won't treat my own books fairly Why do you expect me to treat yours fairly? Just just looking for consistency here. Because as I've said for a number of years now In consistency is the sign of a failed argument.

I'm not quoting from any book but from your books yet. You are accusing me that I'm out of context. I'm not out of context. I'm on target and the concept now. He's just quoted the verse that Jesus Christ did so many miracle, which miracle Jesus Christ do.

Now this is interesting this goes on for a while. And I guess I understand the argumentation here. I'm gonna give you again. This is I think this is important to to understand. It is hard for us Westerners to enter into the mindset of many of These folks that that are not coming from how we've been trained.

It's one of the difficulties for example that I've mentioned many times one of the reasons I don't get into dealing with the Eastern Orthodoxy is because just the foundational discussions of just how different the mindset is normally takes up the entire time you've got and You have trouble going from there but we need to try at least understand where they're coming from and the argumentation being presented here in essence is Quranic in That it is Jesus never did any miracle by himself.

He always did it at the permission of Allah and that's one of the arguments of the Quran. Now here folks is where you have to be very careful. This is where theology matters. This is where if you're gonna be a sound apologist You need to be involved in the church and this is where listen to me now.

You have to resist the temptation to be drawn into the defense of things. You don't actually believe one of the most common things I have seen as I have walked the streets of Mesa or wherever it might be.

I walk up and I hear Christians talking with somebody else is That so very often. We will get we will become so Embroiled in the give-and-take that the other side will say something and we automatically think we have to contradict that.

Because they said it and I know they're wrong. So if they said it they must be wrong about everything. That's what I've appreciated and I hope that I have shown the same thing that's what I've appreciated in the examination of the Ergon Cantor stuff is that Turretin fan has been very very careful you know, we've disagreed with Muhammad Khan and Saying you know, we've said from the beginning Yes, he's.

And Emir are ex-muslims. The question is does that make them experts in Islam? Why why does Ergon make up all this stuff about his history, etc, etc. It's not a question as to whether their father was a Muslim or that they were raised with Muslims.

It's that's not even an issue. That's all that's gonna be made issue by the other side right now is as a smokescreen. So we have been careful and there are arguments out there, you know one that I'll just mention in passing Muhammad Khan has and maybe he just did this initially to Provide evidence in regards to Ergon Cantor's name Ergon Michael Cantor not Mehmet, but He's dragged up the fact that Ergon Cantor has a massive lead foot he has got a bazillion speeding tickets.

See him all on just got one. I think the 20th of May If I recall correctly was 72 and 55 if not, it was an 80 and 55 and he's got lots of them. He's got lots of them now on Just a Christian leader level that bugs me.

You know, there's this thing called Romans 13 the Bible and you know, I think I think Becoming infamous amongst every road cop in the entire Lynchburg area by name. Hey, Bob. Hey Joe. Hey, how you doing again?

Hey, I saw you last week. Yeah, boy. You had on two wheels going around the corner there, you know I don't know that that's really the way you want to witness to people. Okay. But I haven't mentioned it Because it's not directly relevant to the question of the integrity of Ergon Cantor in the pulpit.

I Think it's relevant. I think it should be very relevant to the people of Liberty. I think I Don't know. Do you do you have not have a problem with someone who just you know? Every couple months about you know, maybe six a year or so.

Collecting those Bothers me but there have been people who have raised issues and we've said, you know. Okay, fine, but I don't think that's relevant. You have to be careful about the argumentation that you're that you're using and and being fair I don't think it's relevant to whether he was a Muslim or not or whether he's lied about his background that he can't seem to Keep his car in under you know anywhere near the speed limit.

And so what I mean here is what you're gonna hear is an example of this the argument that he's going to present is That Jesus never did a miracle on his own folks. That's exactly what Christians believe.

Think about for just a second. What does John chapter 5 say. I do nothing. But I see my father doing perfect unity between the father and the son. Jesus is not a renegade deity out there doing his own thing and as the Incarnate Son.

Normally Jesus is dependent upon and utilizes the Holy Spirit. Because that's what we do in our lives as well. So the argument is Aimed at a straw man. The immediate response should have been we don't believe that Jesus acts separately from the father.

In fact, we don't believe the father acts separately from the son or the spirit. There's perfect unity between the divine persons. That should be the response. But what would be the natural inclination of most Christians is to start racking your brain going Lord.

Did Jesus do something on his own? Now The argument is flawed not only because it's against a straw man. But it's also flawed. Because it doesn't take into consideration the purpose of miracles. And it does not take in consideration the fact that Jesus does do things that no mere prophet could ever do and I think that The greatest example of this and I hope you're thinking about this.

I I realize sometimes we talk about Islam people tune out. I'm never gonna talk about these folks. You don't know that. But if you're sitting there thinking, all right, where would I what would I go to having established that Jesus doesn't do anything?

Apart from the father does Jesus do things that no mere prophet would ever do. Well, there are a couple possibilities there but I think the clearest one that I would go to is John chapter 2 and What does Jesus say?

Destroy this temple and in three days, I will raise it up again not By Allah's permission or something like that. I will raise it up. Then you can go through the text of Scripture and say Well here in the book of Acts This Jesus God raised up the father raises up Jesus.

Jesus's own prophecy is he will raise himself and it is the Spirit of God that raises Jesus father son and spirit. Doing what Jesus said he himself would do that's the perfect unity of the Trinity and you're back to allow using all the text of Scripture and You want to make a testimony you want to make a witness that the text of Scripture is consistent in these matters.

That's what I'm gonna be trying to do. I hope you'll pray for our encounter. But that's what I'm gonna be trying to do here in just a matter of weeks.

Believe me Jesus Christ never performed a single miracle in the Bible. Not a single miracle. I've never seen it yet and I read the Bible from cover to cover. Different versions for more than 20 years.

I have never seen a single miracle performed by Jesus. Not even one. You know why I say that. Let's ask Jesus if he do the miracle. Well book of John chapter 5 verse 10. Jesus Christ is speaking. He said I Can of my own self do nothing.

The way I hear I judge because I'm not seeking my own will but the will of the father who sent me. Did he do miracle? He didn't do miracle. He said I can of my own self do nothing. Whatever I do. It is my father book of John chapter 28 28 verse 14.

He said my father is greater than.

That would be John 14 28 not 28. But hey, you know. At least he's trying to quote it off the top of his head.

My father is greater than I if I do any miracle in performance. It is not I that do it but the father in me who sent me and give me the power with the Holy Spirit. Then I do this. Where did Jesus perform miracle.

Nowhere? You say he walked on water therefore he's God therefore he deserved to die for you. You say, you know somebody died and he raised him up. You said Lazarus died. Look, they always give you. Lazarus died and Jesus Raised him up.

Only God can raise you up when you die. Let's ask Jesus if he actually Raised Lazarus from the dead. This is the book of John chapter 11.

Oh now before he goes into the Lazarus thing and it is interesting. He he makes a fundamental error in the Lazarus Presentation in the order in which he presents things that if you again if you know the scriptures You you catch those things but I didn't want to make one again.

We've talked about before but we always have new listeners and and not everyone the audience is algo I never have to repeat anything from him. That's that's the amazing thing is algo knows all but I Didn't want to emphasize something in the citation of John 519.

May I suggest that for dealing with with Muslims Dealing with any subordination is at all. So that would include Jehovah's Witnesses and well most liberal Christians and so on and so forth who would call themselves Christians anyways may I suggest reading and understanding having More than a mere passing knowledge of the fifth chapter of John is extremely Important for you, and I will not apologize in the modern sense the term apologize For calling believers to have a scholarly understanding of a text of Scripture.

I mean it isn't it amazing amongst Christians How there is this anti-intellectualism that that tells you that? You should you should never challenge folks to for example go deep into a particular text of Scripture That there's something unspiritual about that and yet like I said We'll buy we'll buy phones that have a have a user manual that's thicker than the New Testament you know and we'll spend hours figuring out this function and that function everything else and Yet there's something unspiritual about going in depth on a text of Scripture.

I think there's every reason why housewives and Mechanics and schoolteachers, and I don't care what you do engineers whatever. I Don't apologize for a second and saying I think that you should take the time to If you if you don't want to buy the books go to a library get hold of some decent commentaries on the book of John FF Bruce Leon Morris just some of the ones you can look at da Carson's pillar commentary on John and Work through This text so that you have it clearly in your mind to the point where you could explain to somebody else.

That's when you can find out Whether you really understand text could you explain to somebody else? Because this is probably one of the most abused text and if you know it well, and you know the context well.

You can shut anybody down from the abuse of this text for example in verse 19. Truly truly I say to you the son can do nothing of himself unless it is something sees the father doing for whatever the son father Does these things the son also does in like manner for the father loves the son and shows him all the things which he himself Is doing.

The father will show him greater works in these so she may marvel. For just the father raises the dead and gives them life even so the son also gives life to whom he wishes now. You will almost never hear Contextual citations of this text because there's too much about the deity of Christ in John chapter 5.

There are just too many words too many phrases too many assertions That demonstrate the deity of Christ for them to give you the whole thing. But I want to just briefly focus upon that one phrase in verse 19 Nothing of Himself.

Off hey out to now, what does that mean? I Suggest to you that once you look at what the rest of text says for example the fact in verse 23. So it all will honor the son even as they honor the father.

He who does not are the son doesn't honor the father who sent him. May I say to my Muslim friends you are not honoring the Jesus of John chapter 5. You may say you honor Jesus. Because you say you have to believe in him and you pronounce Blessings of peace upon him like you do any other prophet, but you say he's a mere razzle.

He's not the Son of God. He did not die and rise again the third day. You do not believe the testimony of the gospel of John to Jesus Christ. And in fact, I suggest to you that the Jews believed everything about Jesus that you do.

So the point is that was enough. But this very same text of John when it says of himself Is not saying that he himself lacks authority he himself lacks power. He does nothing by himself from himself indistinction and disconnection from the father.

This is an assertion of the unity of the father and the son not the incapacity of the son. You have to emphasize that They are taking a text that is actually remember what remember what prompted verse 19 Jesus had said back in verse 17 That his father was working until now and he is working he's talking about on the Sabbath day.

He's talking about the father's maintenance of creation God's maintenance of creation and Jesus claims the same right for himself and For this reason Jews are seeking all the more to kill him because he not only was breaking the Sabbath But also is calling God his own father.

Making himself equal with God one of the errors we're gonna hear and I I hope we haven't missed it. And I didn't miss it as he was making it. But one of the errors that Sheikha wall makes is That he talks about, you know, the sons of God.

Quotes John 1 12 as if we're all sons and therefore Jesus isn't anything different. The gospel of John never uses Huyas of anyone but Jesus. He is the monogamous the unique son of God. Tecna is what is used of everybody else and So the unity that exists between the father and son flows directly from this statement was calling God his own father.

That's in a unique sense. Not the way that we would have Would call God father, but there is a unique sense to this and as a result making himself equal with God. Making himself equal with God. This is Jesus response his response.

I'd say oh, no, no. No, no, it's not it. His response is to emphasize the unity that exists in Activity and purpose between the father and the son. That's what we need to remember.

Is speaking about Jesus and Lazarus. I'm going to put it in the nutshell and I'll give it to you in condensed. What happened was that Christ was very close to Lazarus and Christ left the city. He left the town.

He left the village by the time he left Lazarus died. So when Lazarus died They went and buried him in a sepulchre. A sepulchre in the ancient time is a carved-out Rumi chamber of a stone that the human so they put him inside and they put huge stone at the entrance of that's how They buried in those days.

So after four days Lazarus was dead. The fourth day Jesus Christ came to the village when Martha the sister of Lazarus heard that the master was in town. She ran to him. She said master your friend Lazarus is dead.

If you were here, you would have risen him. And Jesus Christ said Martha. He's not dead. He's alive. He'll be awake. And she said yes master I know he will be up in the day of judgment and Jesus Christ said even now matter if you have faith.

You will see the glory of God. Show me where you bury him. So on the way going to the sepulchre Jesus Christ begin to commune with God. Listen to what he said. I am quoting word for word. I'm not adding.

I'm not deleting Jesus Christ on the way going to where they bury Lazarus. He begin to commune with God. But what he was saying was not audible. The people could not understand that mysterious communication between him and God.

So the Bible said and Jesus wept in the spirits. The shortest sentence in the Bible and Jesus wept.

Jesus wept in the spirit. I had never heard that one before. It's always good to check your your memorization. Everyone's well, so go over those note cards. I guess it doesn't say Jesus wept in the spirit.

Of course. It says Jesus wept. I'm not sure what the in the spirit edition part.

And Jesus groan in the spirit in other words. Oh my father. Give me the power. This is it.

Word. Where is that coming from? I. I'm looking at the text right here. I don't see any of that. That that's Jesus groaning in the spirit is is due to the presence of death and sin and man's experience but We're getting a little bit of a different perspective here.

So they said and Jesus groan in the spirit when he get the assurance to raise Lazarus he said Open remove the stone. So when they remove the stone Jesus Christ spoke Hebrew and he said Sally suck only Lazarus.

In other words get up. Lazarus and Lazarus came out. He came out from the dead with bandages around him and Jesus said remove the bandages. So they removed the bandages around him and the people begin to say, oh my god, he is God this and because only God.

They did. They began to say. Oh my god. He is God I. I've seen a lot of different translations the Bible. I Got the Greek right there right on the screen. And no, of course, it doesn't say anything like that.

Actually, I think that might be a really bad paraphrase of verse 45. Therefore many of the Jews who came to Mary and saw what he had done believed in him. Now as he's saying that to believe in Jesus is to believe that he's God.

Maybe that'd be nice, but I really don't think that's where he's going now notice the prayer of Jesus Before he calls Lazarus forth. We haven't heard that yet because For effect out of Misremembering I don't know.

That's gonna move to after Lazarus comes out. So as to emphasize the point that shake walls make.

But Jesus Christ he knew or he heard what they were saying. Listen to what he said after Lazarus came back from the dead.

And notice after Lazarus came back to that actually in the biblical text. This is before he called him forth.

Christ look up in the heaven and he said oh my father I know that thou hearest me and I know that thou hearest me always. Meaning whatever I ask of you you give it to me. Oh my father I know that thou hearest me and I know that thou hearest me always but I'm saying this loudly So that they may know that thou art doing the works.

Where did Jesus perform miracle. No.

Actually, that's not what he said either. So they removed the stone then she has raised his eyes and said father I thank you that you have heard me. I Knew that you always hear me, but because the people standing around I said it so they may believe That you sent me.

Not that you're doing the works. But that they may believe that you sent me. When he had said these things he cried out. Loud voice. Lazarus come forth. So the entire argument other than the fact it's a it's a straw man in the first place.

We don't believe Jesus does miracles separately from God the Father. But then the entire argument becomes Oh Jesus says that you know, I'm just doing this. Interestingly enough. Uses language fulfilling the Quranic understanding.

Not what the text actually says but fulfilling the Quranic understanding. Quite interesting.

Most is part of the Red Sea. You know, what is the Red Sea. Part of the Red Sea. Was he God? No, God gave him the power. I Was waiting for you to quote me, you know that verse I am the way the truth and the life.

I was hoping that you quote that I am the way the truth and the life. Now, I.

I'm going to take a audience poll and We have we have installed special equipment on our new system that will allow me to see all of you who put your hands up. Okay. No, it doesn't really do that. I can see people going.

But here's here's an audience poll, I guess I was pulled the audience that we have the massive studio audience. Y 'all want to say hi massive studio audience. Okay, there's two people out there. But anyway This very text I addressed within the past six months and I addressed it in The context of Zakir Naik.

Speaking about John chapter 14. Since this is one that happens all time. Is this not one of the texts that would come up in a discussion between yourself and a Muslim? Obviously it is. I Am the way the truth and life no man comes to father but by me one of the keys to maintaining control of a conversation.

This is something those of you, you know Rich has gone out to Mesa for many many many years and has seen me witnessing the Mormons out there and you've learned what? The way to control a Conversation is to know what the Mormon believes where they're gonna go before they get there.

And so if you're gonna present a Bible verse you want to know what they already think about it. And so you can present it in such a way as to short circuits their misuse of it. You want to interpret it correctly.

So they can hear the correct interpretation and can't misuse it. That's how you control conversation. Well. Same thing here. And when you go to John 1428, you need to understand what the Muslims gonna say.

We address this in fact, I believe it's on YouTube in my response to Zakir Naik and his appearance on the Dean show John 1428 no man comes the father but by me. What's he gonna say? Well, of course. First of all that he's going to assume it's by my teaching not by me.