Household Worship - Part 7 - Deputization

and the Levites are ashamed, because before they start doing their job, the people are doing their job for them, and this calls them into the responsibility that they are to be doing.

All right, and then famously, in Judges 14, we have the situation with Barak and Deborah.

Okay, why did I say Judges 14? This is not Judges 14. It's Judges 4, thank you.

Judges 4, all right, verse 4.

Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lepidoth, was judging Israel at that time.

She used to sit under the palm of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim. The people of Israel came up to her for judgment.

She sent and summoned Barak, the son of Abednuim from Gedesh Naphtali, and said to him, has not the

Lord, the God of Israel, commanded you? Go gather your men at Mount Tabor, taking 10 ,000 from the people of Naphtali and the people of Zebulun, and I will draw out

Sisera, the general of Jabin's army, to meet you by the river Kishon with his chariots and his troops, and I will give him into your hand.

Barak said to her, if you will go with me, I will go, but if you will not go with me, I will not go. And she said,

I will surely go with you. Nevertheless, the road on which you are going will not lead to your glory, for the Lord will sell

Sisera into the hand of a woman. Then Deborah arose and went with Barak to Gedesh, and Barak called out

Zebulun and Naphtali to Gedesh, and 10 ,000 men went up at his heels, and Deborah went with him. So here,

Barak has a particular responsibility. It's been commanded directly by the Lord that he is supposed to go to war with these 10 ,000 men, but he chooses not to, unless Deborah goes with him.

So each of these cases that we've gone over, someone has a responsibility, either because of oversight or cowardice, or a great sense of weakness.

They aren't doing their job, and it's a cause for repentance, something that they should turn from and do the task, like you see with the priests and the

Levites. They do after they realize that there's something that they are being negligent in.

All right, so when there is a good cause, a reasonable cause for selecting someone else to lead in household worship, how should this be done carefully?

Well, if you turn over to Judges 17, I think this is the last passage we're gonna read in full, but some of these are kind of helpful to see the whole context, and I know some of these

Old Testament passages may not be that familiar to everyone. In Judges 17, you have a situation where there's a man named

Micah who ends up serving an idol and has a lot of confidence because of people he's put in charge of this worship, but this leads to further idolatry in the land of Israel in the next chapter.

All right, I'm gonna read all of Judges 17 here. There was a man of the hill country of Ephraim whose name was

Micah, and he said to his mother, the 1 ,100 pieces of silver that were taken from you about which you uttered a curse and also spoke it in my ears, behold, the silver is with me, and I took it.

And his mother said, blessed be my son by the Lord, and he restored the 1 ,100 pieces of silver to his mother.

And his mother said, I dedicate the silver to the Lord from the hand of my son to make a carved image, a metal image, now therefore,

I will restore it to you. So when he restored the money to his mother, his mother took 200 pieces of silver and gave it to a silversmith who made it in a carved image, in a metal image, and it was in the house of Micah.

Okay, so he's created an image for worship here. And the man

Micah had a shrine, and he made an ephod and household gods and ordained one of his sons who became his priest.

Okay, so he's handing off the worship of the family's organized worship to his son.

In those days, there was no king in Israel. Everyone, it was right in his eyes, all right?

So that's an observation that this is disordered. Obviously, the idolatry is disordered, but in addition to that, you see a hint that there's something wrong with him making his son a priest in this way, and we'll see that he makes another person a priest later that's also improper.

Now, there was a young man of Bethlehem in Judah, of the family of Judah, who was a Levite, and he sojourned there.

And the man departed from the town of Bethlehem in Judah to sojourn where he could find a place.

And as he journeyed, he came to the hill country of Ephraim to the house of Micah. And Micah said to him, where do you come from?

And he said to him, I'm a Levite of Bethlehem in Judah, and I'm going to sojourn where I may find a place.

And Micah said to him, stay with me and be to me a father and a priest. I will give you 10 pieces of silver a year and a suit of clothes and your living.

And the Levite went in, and the Levite was content to dwell with the man, and the young man became to him like one of his sons.

Micah ordained the Levite, and the young man became his priest and was in the house of Micah.

Then Micah said, now I know that the Lord will prosper me because I have a Levite as a priest. So he has all this false confidence because he's made a

Levite his priest. Right, and so he's a careless deputization in both of these circumstances.

He should be, yeah, ordering the worship in his home well, but he is appointing his son to this task who doesn't really know what he's doing.

He's appointing this Levite to the task who doesn't really know what he's doing, but he is kind of superstitiously thinking, oh, if a

Levite's doing it, it's going to be good, right? Okay, so it's a lack of care, and then we won't read

Judges 18, but we see the fallout from these actions where, yeah, the

Levite ends up promoting more idolatry and the idolatry spreads throughout the land.

Yes, these are two separate situations, yeah.

Right, yeah, his son's not a Levite, so he's just taking random people and putting them in these roles, yeah.

By the way, if you ever want to listen to a sermon on this passage, there's a very good, famous sermon on this called 10

Shekels and a Shirt, just referring to the folly of doing ministry for the sake of some return, right?

So, you know, this is what he offers him, right, is 10 shekels and clothes. So 10 shekels and a shirt is a good sermon on this passage.

All right, okay, yeah, so careless deputization is a bad idea.

Careful deputization prioritize, first of all, presence in the family. Think about what someone who's leading a house in worship is supposed to be doing.

Deuteronomy 6, 6 through 7, these words that I command you today shall be on your heart, you shall teach them diligently to your children, you shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise.

Proverbs 27, 23 says, know well the condition of your flocks and give attention to your herds, right?

If someone is supposed to spiritually care for folks in your home, it's supposed to be someone who's present and aware of what's going on in the home.

Careful deputization prioritizes authority. Titus 2, 15 says, declare these things, exhort and rebuke with all authority, let no one disregard you.

If part of the point of explaining the word of God is to correct people, then the one who is best going to be able to do that is going to be one who has authority to say those sorts of things.

Careful deputization prioritizes ability to handle the word. Nehemiah 8, 8, they read from the book, from the law of God clearly and they gave the sense so that people understood their reading.

So obviously if you're gonna read scripture, you need to be able to explain it. James 3, 1, not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.

James 3, 1 referring to more formal teaching in the church but does apply more broadly. You know those who do those sorts of tasks will have to give an account for having done them.

Okay, and then careful deputization warrants pastoral consultation. Ephesians 4, 11 through 12, and he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers to equip the saints for the work of ministry for building up the body of Christ.

Now this might, this part might seem odd to you that it would be something that warrants pastoral consultation if you have a situation in your home that's not the standard situation where the father's leading the family in worship.

First Corinthians 7, you do see a sort of example of that where people are asking

Paul about the situation in their family with you know, mixed homes. So you know, what if the wife's a believer and the husband's an unbeliever and he's telling them how they should still approach family life in that circumstance.

But consider this, if you think of household worship as being simply a duty to your family, right, it doesn't make sense that you would, you wouldn't necessarily, it wouldn't necessarily warrant you know, going and consulting pastors.

However, if it is a communal duty, right, if this is for example in our church, it's something that's part of the church covenant, right, something we're all agreeing to maintain and you are not able to maintain it in the normal, in the normal mode, then you need confirmation not just that, not just to double check that you're doing things well, but out of a duty to everyone else that you're fulfilling, that you're fulfilling what you've committed to.

It's not, it is not up to the individual to decide whether or not they are fulfilling the obligations of the covenant, right, it is, that is something that ought to be, that is, if it's a communal duty, it needs to be determined communally and the ones who have been placed in charge of that community are the elders.

And you see this also in the directory of family worship, this is how they approach it. And in other families where the head of the family is unfit, that another constantly residing in the family, notice that presence is highly prioritized here, one constantly residing in the family.

Approved by the minister in session, who knows what session means, what's a session? Yes, no, not quite, yes.

Yeah, the board of elders, right, it's more of a Presbyterian term. Yeah, approved by the minister in the session, so this is the elders.

So they're, in the Presbyterian model, you typically have one teaching elder and then a bunch of ruling elders, right, they distinguish between kinds of elders.

Baptists wouldn't do that. But approved by the minister in the session may be employed in that service wherein the minister in session are to be accountable to the

Presbytery. So another thing that's definitely a Presbyterian thing is you have the higher court that they are then accountable to.

But the main thing that I'm pointing out here is that, is not the particular mechanics of the church government, that there's a minister in a session and there's a

Presbytery above that, but that if this is a communal duty, then it's not up to the individual to decide whether or not he is fulfilling this.

If he's not able to fulfill it in the usual recommended way, that he is doing it well enough, right?

He should be asking, well, is this upholding our responsibility sufficiently?

Okay, does that make sense? All right, all right.

So a few cautions about that. Let's see.

Oh no, wait. We're moving on to ministers. All right, so there's two, okay, now at this point,

I want to address two particular things that have come up before, both in this class and then questions

I've received at other times and things I've been curious about, especially having read a number of books on this and seen older takes and trying to understand why they would have certain positions, specifically the case of a minister residing with the family, whether or not that is appropriate for the minister.

In a case where you have a father who is fit for household worship, if there were a minister residing in the family, whether or not it would be appropriate for him frequently to be the one leading the house in worship.

And then the other one is for women leading worship in families.

So we're gonna go through each of these. All right. Okay, ministers teaching publicly in houses does not subvert authority in the home.

Okay, so this is kind of an obvious point, but I figured it's worth pointing out anyway.

First Corinthians 16, 19, you do have situations where families are giving their homes to the public work of ministry, right?

And so the home for that temporary portion of time is being used for public ministry. First Corinthians 16, 19, the churches of Asia send you greetings,

Quill and Priscilla to get Prisca with the church in their house sends you hearty greetings in the Lord. All right, okay, so you have a church in the home.

Paul is ministering. Obviously, if he's gone through there, he's been ministering in that church.

Ministers teaching privately in houses also does not subvert authority in the home.

So it would not be that, okay, well, if you have someone in here taking authority, right, and teaching the whole family, is that subverting the father's authority when he does that?

Acts 20, 20 would say no. How I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable and teaching you in public and from house to house, in other words, in private, right?

Teaching you in public and in private. Okay. Okay. So the conclusion from those two observations is that it is, or maybe at least, appropriate for heads of households, though fit to deputize ministers in the task of family worship.

And one of the, you know, our families are so small and pretty,

I mean, you have a lot of variety in family shapes in our era, but as far as the size, there's not a lot of disparity.

What you see in older homes is there is a pretty significant disparity, right? Like the homes of kings, you've got like tons of servants, right?

Just think about like the history of our own country. You know, there were some pretty large manors and plantations and things like that, right?

You go and you see any of the original presidents, their homes, you know, you go to like Monticello or you go to Mount Vernon or whatever, and you see that they're managing incredibly large households.

And would it not be appropriate in those circumstances where you realize there are a large number of people that you are spiritually watching over, lots of servants, lots of, you know, their children, right?

Your children, et cetera, that any kind of spiritual leadership that you would employ in that case if you do have someone who is particularly capable of the task, someone else.

And so, yes. Yes, this can be appropriate. Okay, so cautions for this.

First caution, fathers are still responsible to instruct and discipline their children. So this does not absolve the father of the responsibility to do this task.

Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord still to be instructing them.

Another caution, and this

I bring up primarily because it seems to be a significant concern in the directory of household worship. Ministers not having the same level of care for the household as the father, you know, him being the most concerned with the state of the household, ought not to use their status to divide the household.

So let me go ahead and read this quote from the directory of family worship. And if a minister by divine providence be brought to any family, it is requisite that at no time he convene a part of the family for worship, secluding the rest.

Now note that this is assuming it would be appropriate for a minister residing in a family to lead the family in worship, okay?

So this is beginning with the assumption that we've come to the right conclusion here already.

That he should not convene a part of the family for worship, secluding the rest, except in singular cases, especially concerning these parties, which in Christian prudence need not or ought not to be imparted to others.

The idea is it may be the case where, you know, the minister is just kind of, you know, he could end up doing his own thing and, you know, grabbing a few people here and a few people there to lead them in ways that aren't concerned with the whole household the way that the head of household would be especially concerned with the whole household.

So anyway, yeah, he should not promote division in the household. Okay, another caution. A minister in this context is not merely one who is capable.

Okay, so this is not, like I said, this is not the Moses and Aaron situation where, oh, okay, well, Aaron's more capable, right?

This has to do with actual church authority that warrants exercising religious authority in the home.

Like, this is why it's appropriate for Paul and he's not subverting the authority of the home is because he is actually a religious authority over them already.

Directory of family worship five. Let no idler who has no particular calling or vagrant person under the pretense of a calling be suffered to perform worship in families two or four the same.

Seeing persons tainted with errors or aiming at division may be ready after that manner to creep into houses and leave captive, silly, and unstable souls.

You can imagine someone, you know, has someone else staying with them for some time and they show a lot of zeal for the word and you might be excited about that and kind of just pass off the duty to them and then if they aren't under church accountability, if there's no real authority, then it can lead to division, yes.

Do you think that could happen particularly in the market? Yes, definitely.

Yeah, I've seen that happen a number of times where, yeah, there's someone who shows a lot of charisma, right, and that carries more weight than some of the checks that God has put into place to make sure that teaching offices are guarded.

Yeah. Yeah. And if you've ever read Pilgrim's Progress, the character talkative in there is that kind of person who just sounds very charismatic and everybody thinks, oh, wow, this guy's really holy, et cetera, and it turns out he's not.

It's just all talk. Yeah, well, the

Bible study's not a church, but if you are, but if we talk about this in relation to church relations, right, like, yeah, if you just have someone who's part of the

Bible study, and this is where they're getting their sense of religious fulfillment is by this outlet and not the ones that God has given, and I've seen that plenty of times, right?

A lot of people find that with campus ministries or whatever, they feel very fulfilled by these things, either participating in them as recipients or as ministers, but then not involved in the church, then you don't have the structures in place that God has given in 1

Timothy 3 and Titus, et cetera, to guard, you know, who is it that should have this, you know, kind of authority?

Who should the people be looking to, right? Yeah, there's a lot of ways those things are subverted by, and I don't mean that any kind of parachurch thing like a

Bible study necessarily subverts it. I'm just saying that a lot of parachurch organizations do subvert this, and by parachurch,

I'm just using that really broadly to talk about any kind of outside of the church religious gathering.

So, for example, you know, scripture gives an outline for who deacons should be, right, deacons should meet certain qualifications before they handle the money of the church to make sure that it's spent well and responsibly and not, yeah, not with improper motives.

Yet, you have some very, very large, very wealthy parachurch organizations that have sprung up because they see the church is too inefficient, and then who is managing the money?

It's not, I mean, it's not people who are meeting the qualifications of 1 Timothy 3, right? It's just, yeah, whoever gets voted into the board by this parachurch organization.

So, a lot of times, so yeah, this can be true all the way from small things like Bible studies to big things like, you know, charity organizations that are designed to assist the church, where you end up, a lot of the guards that Christ put in place to ensure that things are done orderly end up being subverted.

Well, if you're outside the church, you don't have to follow the rules, you know? Yes. Do they have to open up their financials?

Well, certainly, there couldn't be anything that would lead to suspicion that they were irresponsible with money, or were led by greed.

There's a number of things about that. Let's see, just one, oh, excuse me.

Wrong chapter there. Just one verse from 1 Timothy 3.

Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double -tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain, right?

So, and they must manage their own households well. So, yeah, they must manage their own households well.

They shouldn't be greedy for dishonest gain. The degree to which every private detail needs to be disclosed is not stated here.

So, I think that can be determined with simply a testimony, you know, of, like,

I would want to know, and I have asked candidates for deacons for the diaconate this in the past, whether or not they have, like, a lot of outstanding debt or anything like that that they, that we should be aware of, right?

Because, yeah, someone can look like they manage their money well, but it's just all built on the backs of others who are, yeah, loaning the money, right?

Now, we do require, in our benevolence policy, there is a requirement that someone who would receive repeated benevolence needs to disclose their finances to the deacons in order to receive continual benevolence.

That's something that the church needs to be protected from, someone saying that they need help when they don't, or maybe they're saying they need help and the church is helping them, but they're also asking everyone individually in the church, and so you have the church giving them twice over.

You know, that's something that can happen, too. All right, let's see.

Okay, now, another difference between Baptists and Presbyterians that ought to be pointed out, given some of the stuff we're looking at in the

Directory of Family Worship, preaching in Baptist theology, and rightly so, you see some of the proof texts here, is not restricted to ordained ministers like it is in Presbyterianism.

Just from the Second Lenten Baptist Confession, although it be incumbent on the bishops or pastors of the churches to be instant in preaching the word by way of office, yet the work of preaching the word is not so peculiarly confined, excuse me, can't say that word, to them, but that others also gifted and fitted by the

Holy Spirit for it, and approved and called by the church, may and ought to perform it. So, you know, this is not, while the

Directory of Family Worship is talking about ministers meaning, like, teaching elders, it's not even meaning elders in general, but one particular kind of elder.

One who is qualified and called by the church to preach may not necessarily be a pastor.

But note that this does talk about one approved and called by the church. This is something we currently don't have in our

Constitution, but I would like there to be some formal means of recognizing this. There's been a good bit of historical work done lately to figure out how older Baptist churches did this to recognize teachers who were not, who were not, who were not ministers, or were not yet ordained ministers.

And I think that would be good for us to have. But anyway, all this, all this to say that this could be broader than ordained minister, but at the same time,

I think the guarding factor here is that this is someone who already has religious authority, like, ecclesial authority, not just someone who is good at teaching like Aaron, right?

This is not a Moses and Aaron situation. This is something different. All right.

Okay, now, the next question that we will address here is women as deputies of unfit heads of households, or as the head of the household themselves.

Okay, so this is something that I have frequently asked myself because I frequently end up in a situation where, and not that I'm frequently gone, but, you know, after given enough time,

I will be out on trips occasionally. And the question is, Sarah, while she's at home, she's leaving kids and we have guests in the home also, is it appropriate if there are men present, right?

So like, you know, either the, yeah, either the people staying in our

ADU, guys staying in our ADU, or occasionally we'll have families staying with us, is it appropriate for them to join when, yeah, when she's leading?

Or is she supposed to pass it off to one of them if one of them's a Christian, or what if they're not Christian? Or like, what is supposed to happen in this circumstance?

All right, so let's go through, let's go through this. First of all, just the basics. Women are not to have authority over men in formal teaching.

First Corinthians 14, 33 to, excuse me, probably should have said 33b to 34a,

I'm guessing. I don't know, that reference doesn't make sense, but as it is in all the Church of the Saints, the women should keep silent in the churches.

I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise the authority of her man. Rather, she is to remain quiet. All right, but a few caveats to this.

Women do have authority in homes, first of all, over children. Ephesians 6 .1, children obey your parents and the

Lord for this is right. Colossians 3 .20, children obey your parents and everything for this pleases the Lord. Remember, Ephesians and Colossians written about the same time, going through the various family relations of authority, the threefold relations.

There was a very interesting document I came across by, I think it was Samuel Caltry on, is a catechism of the threefold relations in the home, and it's just a set of questions and answers about all these relationships and how they ought to be ordered.

Pretty good, yes. Right, yes, a dependent.

Now, to be distinguished from servants or slaves, right? Because that's the next section in those epistles, right?

But you could imagine, you know, a grandparent that has children, right? Or you have an orphan staying with you.

Yeah, if he is reliant on you, right? If this is, so I think it's different when you just have a large piece of property and you're renting it out.

Like, renting it out, I don't think it's necessarily the same thing. But yeah, if he is dependent on you, that is part of your household, yes.

Yeah, and so that's another thing, is a lot of people feel that their duty to lead in household worship ends when the child has reached legal adult age.

I don't think that's the way you should think about it. You should think about it as your household, all those who are dependent on you. Yeah.

Okay, yes. Yeah, I think, yeah, if you're renting, if you are providing for yourself, right?

If you're the provider, then you are the head of household. I reserve the right to come up with a more nuanced view in the future.

But yeah, this is my current understanding. I do, so where I have questions is given what the law says about things like the

Sabbath and making sure that everyone who is, you know, residing with you is observing the

Sabbath. There does seem to be cause for possibly, even if you are, yeah, even other properties that you would still have ownership over, you would have requirements for how they'd be used, right?

But that's different than like being the leader of someone. Okay, so like leading in worship is different than having requirements over how your property is used.

Yes. Yeah, it doesn't have to do with the building, right?

If you have an apartment complex, like the owner of the apartment complex is not the now therefore the householder.

Yeah, sure, right. It really depends on the provision, I think. Yeah, I think it's different.

If we're talking about two providers who are sharing one space, right, or a split level or something, right, that's different than one providing for both.

In which case, yeah, if you've assumed the role of material provider, that comes with the role of spiritual provider as well.

And there's a responsibility not to be enabling people, right, and so if you are, and a lot of that's what it comes down to, right, is if you are providing for someone, you are enabling them to live, and I'm using enabling in a generic neutral way here, right, you're enabling them to live and do things.

And if that's the case, if you are enabling them materially, you ought to be equipping them spiritually so that they're doing the right things with that enablement.

It comes with a responsibility. All right. Where was

I with that? Okay, women also have authority in homes over servants slash slaves, Ephesians 6 .9.

Masters, do the same to them, and stop your threatening, knowing that he who is both their master and yours is in heaven, and that there is no partiality with him.

Colossians 4 .1. Masters, treat your bond servants justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a master in heaven.

Yeah, you see examples of women being masters. In the Old Testament, you have, you know, the wife of, oh, goodness,

Potiphar, right, Potiphar's wife, for example, over Joseph, right, abuses her authority, but, you know, this is like a situation that exists, okay?

Women represent their homes as spiritual authority. We have examples of women representing their homes as spiritual authorities when men are unfit or inactive.

Here are a few cases, and by the way, I'll mention that if any of these seem like stretches to apply, these were proof texts that came up frequently in my reading on the topic from resources from the 1600s and 1700s.

Okay, so these are not, these were things that people frequently felt applied to this. 1

Samuel 25, 24. She fell at his feet and said, on me alone, my Lord, be the guilt. Please let your servant speak in your ears and hear the words of your servant.

Who is this referring to, anybody know who this is? Yeah, Abigail, that's right, yes.

Yeah, this is Abigail when Nabal, whose name literally means fool, is acting like a fool, and she goes and acts as the representative of the family in this way, and this is considered a good thing, right?

Like she is, she's shown favor for this. 2 Kings 4 .22,

then she called to her husband and said, send me one of the servants and one of the donkeys, and I may quickly go to the man of God and come back again.

And he said, why will you go to him today? It is neither new moon nor Sabbath. And she said, all is well.

Who's this, anybody know? No, who is it? Yeah, the

Shunammite, right, the Shunammite. Yeah, so, yeah, so he or she is going, and remember, she's gonna plead for the life of her son who has died to have him resurrected, and he is resurrected.

And so these are both cases where you have a woman acting as a spiritual representative of the family.

You do have examples also. You have this example of Lois and Eunice, women leading children in the faith, apart from a believing husband, presumably.

I mean, not a lot of details given, but that seems to be every reason to assume that that's the case.

2 Timothy 1 .5, I'm reminded of your sincere faith, which first lived in your grandmother Lois and your mother

Eunice, and I am persuaded now lives in you also. Lydia appears to have been the spiritual leader of a substantial household.

Nothing in particular says that she had male servants, but it does suggest she has a substantial household.

Paul is able to stay with her. She has room for guests. Okay, that suggests a substantial household.

One who heard of us was a woman named Lydia from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods. These are another thing suggesting she's wealthy, has a larger house, who was a worshiper of God.

The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul, and after she was baptized in her old household as well, so her leading, and by leading,

I mean like temporally going before them in acting in a leading sort of fashion.

In her household as well, she urged us, saying, if you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay. She prevailed upon us.

So all these together, I believe the right conclusion here is in absence of one more suitable, women may lead family worship, if they are the head of household, or if the head of household is unfit, providentially hindered, even when there may be men present in the household.

A couple of quotes that seem to confirm this. I see no reason why an Abigail or a

Deborah may not at least be the mouth of the family to God, but I am not positive herein, and leave it to the consideration of others.

This is Oliver Haywood. There were others who said pretty similar things. And then Calvin, and it's interesting, because Oliver Haywood is responding to Calvin at this point.

But Calvin even seems to allow for this in the situation of the family. And remember, family in Ephesians, Colossians, is more than just parents, children, right?

It includes servants, et cetera. Not that he takes from them the charge of instructing their family, right?

He's talking about women, when it's forbidding women to teach. Not that he takes from them the charge of instructing their family, but only excludes them from the office of teaching, which

God has committed to men only. Okay, so anyway, yeah.

So these, I agree with Haywood. I'm not positive herein, but I don't know how it could make sense otherwise.

Like, if you have a household that is busy, that has guests, that, you know, operates on the usual and, you know, the man is away, what else is supposed to happen?

Really, there doesn't seem to be other options, so this is kind of like, by necessity, I'm not sure how else it could be.

But, yeah. But if Tim wants to correct me on any of this and says, way off, Conley, I'm open to that, too.

All right, any questions? Yes, yeah.

Yeah, I believe it would be appropriate for the mother to lead, yes. Yeah, that's the point of the section, right, is to show that there are senses in which women have authority over men, and then this particular situation of the household warrants that, yes.

I suppose so, yeah. I mean, it depends on the situation, right? If you have a,

I get that situation with guests is one thing, but if people are going to stay with you long -term and to be dependent on you, and you, yeah, as a woman or the head of the household, you probably would not want, you shouldn't want someone to stay with you as not going to be joining the family in worship, if this is like a long -term situation, right?

If you are responsible to make sure that your household is one that's worshiping the Lord, and someone is coming to you and saying that I will not worship the

Lord with you, right? Like, that's not, that wouldn't be a fitting situation. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I understand what you're saying for the guest, but what

I'm saying is for the one leading the home, that's their responsibility, and as we've talked about before, like, this should be a requirement for household membership, is that you be part of the, that you be serving the

Lord together with the whole family, and not just on your own. So that's the part that wouldn't be a conscience issue.

Yes, James. Right, yes, that's the point of the term deputy, but keep in mind,

I'm also addressing here situations where there is no man, like Lydia, right?

Yeah. Yeah, it depends on,

I think there's a lot that would change depending on the provision role.

Like, if he's acting as the head of the household in other ways, I think it makes more sense, because then he has that authority.

Like, he is the one who's calling the shots, right? Right. Yeah, because a lot of this has to do with the authority to make commands, right, and require things that goes hand in hand with the application of the word to those things, right?

If you are the one who has authority in the home to say, like, you're no longer permitted to be part of the home, or, you know, you have to do these things, if you have that authority, then explaining how the word of God applies to that authority is, yeah.

Joseph? Oh, oh, I see.

I see, yeah. I don't know how literal we're supposed to understand

Jesus there, as opposed to just saying that the spiritual family is, you know, now more primary through his act, yeah.

John? Right, right, well, inactive in that he is not, he is not doing anything about the death of the son.

So, yeah, whether or not she's doing the right thing and not revealing this to him is a different question. I'm just saying that we do have scriptural examples of a woman acting in this way that show that it is something that can happen, right?

Like, the details of whether or not it should in these particular circumstances, or how it should is perhaps different, but you do have the very positive example in 1

Samuel 25, right, yes.

Yeah, especially if you're praying, if you all are taking turns praying together, that would make sense, yeah.

Right. Yeah, there's a lot of, I mean, there's a lot of edge cases to think through. Every time you all ask me a question,

I'm sitting here, I have to, like, play out all the details and try to fit them together, because they are complicated.

And like I said, this can appear, like, obscure or whatever, but these are questions I've asked myself a number of times, not just because I'm thinking about obscure hypotheticals, but real life, you know, trying to figure out.

Okay, well, let's go ahead and close there in prayer. Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you for the guidance that you've given us.

We ask that we would apply your word rightly, that you would order our homes well, and we ask that you would draw us closer to you, and that you would, through proper leading of our homes, raise up future generations to serve you.