Reviewing the Double Header Debate from Last Weekend

Reviewing the Double Header Debate from Last Weekend

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now at 602 973 460 to or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 877 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. And now with today's topic here is James white well, good morning, if you are still on the West Coast and in Arizona, good afternoon for the rest of you and that of course indicates that the the time has changed not here, but everywhere else and Anyone who has asked questions about that in the channel this morning has been kick banned as a result of doing so and Will be kick banned in the future as well.

Anyways, it's good to be with you on the dividing line today. We are back from our rather busy weekend in Salt Lake City and Things just continue to stay interesting as soon as we got back. I was sent a URL by Good friend of mine, it helps sort of monitor things out there.

I appreciate when folks Send me these URLs, especially when they don't send them with a request that I write some massive response to it. That I don't find overly encouraging or useful but there are some folks who just want to You know help me keep up with what is out there.

I do not have the time to be running around doing That kind of looking at things all the time. Just couldn't keep up with things. But anyways sent URL to some an article on Roberts and Genesis website.

In regards to the main article on our website, which I know I know needs to be changed. I'm working on something new but Anyways that keeps things a hopping and keeps things interesting never a boring day around here.

Anyways, there's always far more than we can get to in a day's time and that's I suppose a very good thing but I want to report on the debates this weekend if you were there and would like to Give your thoughts possibly if you were at the debates in Salt Lake City this weekend 877 -753 -3341.

I was actually reading some comments from some Mormons that were at the first debate and I was just blown away By what was said, I mean I was I was encouraged in one sense some of the things were said but in the in the sense of what they were hearing I was I was amazed but if you were there feel free to give us a call and Give your insights.

Obviously, I it'd be real easy to do what? What most people do at least what my opponents seem to like to do and You know just simply say wow, you know we won this debate we won that debate we did this we did that so on so forth.

I like to allow other folks to sort of make up their minds on their own by just listening and But I will give you my impressions anyways and try to do so in somewhat of a fair manner as to what what took what took place over the course of the weekend and I think I have the sneaking hunch that mr. Pierce was Working on getting some of the audio.

Ready the audio of those debates normally comes out first. Because that's the easiest to put together you can put on the mp3 site and people can listen to it there it's not there yet, but that's normally what comes first and Then the video comes later because you have to take the video from two different cameras and put them together and so on and so forth and that way.

That way you can have a good-looking video they from what mr. Pierce tells me they came out great. I was a little concerned about that. We we were in Orson Spencer Hall. Which was just one building. Let's see.

That would be south of The Student Center where we were at before for the Martin Tanner debates six months ago and We are in a well Sort of a standard academic Room where you'd have a very large class.

There's about 400 seats or so I think theater style seating. And the the stage is down front and and there's it's obviously an incline type situation. Where the stage is down lower and so there's good visibility and Large chalkboard and a screen that came down from one of the two debates.

We had the screen down because my opponent was using an overhead at least briefly. Anyways, I was a little concerned because it was so dark in there. It's a little tough for me to see we weren't able to get all the lights to function properly it was an older place and It's a little tough for me to see my my notes.

And so you'll see me using my little old grandfather reading glasses once in a while to see See my notes because it wasn't very bright up on the up on the podium. But anyways, I think it was a nice venue and as I said, mr Pierce says the cameras did a really good job and it ends up looking better on the video than it did in person.

I'm not sure How that's possible since I'm in the video. So that's a sort of causes difficulties. But anyways The videos are from what we've been told look really good and those should be available In the not-too-distant future.

I was just asking channel how my tungsten tea performed it it performed wonderfully as as always. That's the palm tungsten tea. Yes. It's a wonderful device. Anyways the first night and Some people might say well, don't you aren't you going up there for conference?

And of course for many many many years, that's exactly what we were doing. However due to the presence of the King James only fundamentalist Individuals who are beyond reason who are intent upon slandering the gospel and doing everything in their power to Keep people in darkness so that they can think that they're somehow special and are being persecuted for the name of Christ.

We have determined that as long as they are as long as they are around That there is no reason to continue that ministry. We have mentioned before that their behavior is so poisonous so hateful so egregious that there is no opportunity for Engaging in any kind of meaningful conversation distribution of literature.

They have been rebuked, but they do not care they are loose cannons. I think they're ascribed very well by Jude in their behaviors and So we didn't do that this year this first time since 1984. But there has not been a contingent from Alpha Omega ministries Standing outside the gates actually it's rather interesting the weather was horrible and so we weren't really missing it and We were told that there were those There were a few folks that attended the debate that went ahead and went down there to see it was going on and all the King James only street preachers were were there getting snowed and rained upon and They put the the folks waiting to go into what we call the Megan Ackle the meeting house there.

They put them in the tabernacle on Temple Square. So they could stay out of the out of the weather and then they just had one line that would come out of the tabernacle straight into the into the quote-unquote Megan Ackle and Hence the the people that were walking by were only there for just a moment and You know Basically once that line was gone.

There wasn't anybody else around so here all these guys are freezing to death getting snowed and rained upon and there was absolutely positively no one to even you know talk to and they didn't. They didn't Look very happy, and you know what I don't care I'm very glad that they were cold and that they had no one to offend so anyways.

We weren't doing that and Instead we were focusing upon a doubleheader debate and doubleheader debates are not easy. Let me tell you something if you really do work hard upon the subject of doing a debate if you're My friends will tell you that I have a certain mindset.

He's in the zone and Once I start into a debate You know the place could basically burn down around me. And I wouldn't even know it as long as the other guy was still talking He stops talking. I might notice it, but I get very very focused upon a particular Subject and I'm listening very carefully to what my opponent is saying and I'm thinking and so on so forth and that takes a lot of energy, it's a very tiring thing and so doing one you know two nights in a row is Actually a very very difficult thing to do on a mental level at least if you're going to put a hundred percent into it You know if you lay back and aren't really concerned about it That would be a different thing, but two in a row is a little bit difficult, but at least they were on well They were on a similar subject.

But obviously they're coming from very different perspectives the first night Dr. R. Dennis Potter He is we were sitting around at a restaurant after the debate those of us went up from the ministry and All of a sudden I I said you know what I think this is the first time I've done a formal public debate against someone younger than I am and That was a sad realization on my part actually but Everyone went through everybody else and there was like one or two people that I debated I wasn't sure exactly all there, but they're certainly right around my age, but I wouldn't I don't know how old dr. Potter is I would put him in his late 20s, and I just turned 40 so there was quite a Quite a difference in in our age in our looks I I probably Not quite double the weight maybe of Doc you know you're right Tim Staples is two years 18.

I think he's 18 months younger than I am you're right. We forgot about him. He's eight eight well You know 18 months, and we're talking maybe 12 years here. There's a little bit of a little bit of a difference there but Tim Staples certainly thinks that he's Much younger than I am.

I got an email from him once I well well James you know you've had a lot longer to be doing this stuff and and You're gonna. You know you just wait till I I get to you know I catch up. You know and I've informed him.

How old are you buddy 18 months younger than I am so what? What what's that all about but anyways? I didn't get much response that anyways, but anyways he He is not your standard Mormon, okay, and and I knew that beforehand.

And from from visiting his website He's he's not your standard Mormon, and I was a little bit concerned that the Mormons in attendance would Basically say what are you people trying to pull here? However, dr. Potter is a member in good standing with the church he teaches there in Utah.

He has written for farms the foundation for ancient research and Mormon studies now. What he was involved in writing in was a co-authored piece in response to Masa and Owen and their review of how why the divide.

And that section which was on the nature of God and the salvation. I'll just be very very honest. I'm not being disrespectful, but on exegetical level it was laughable there wasn't enough meaningful exegesis in in that Section that I read in the farms review of books to to fill a thimble there were errors on the level of in discussing Lydia and the Lord opening her heart the actual text said some long lines of There was a woman of Lydia.

No, her name was Lydia. She I mean it just no familiarity with the text the the suggested interpretations had no connection exegetically with the text at all and It just was just was amazing so I I was concerned that that some of the Mormons were to go We don't believe like this fellow and it's true.

He was very open about the fact that he is very liberal liberal in his perspectives. He suggested a number of times, you know, maybe one of the responses to professor White's position is that Paul was wrong now I know most Mormons wouldn't like that, but that is one perspective is is how How he put it and Which I found most most interesting but anyway the the debate was Very much.

I think two ships passing in the night, which is what I was afraid it would be and hence. I I really tried to Make sure that the gospel was presented with clarity and with consistency over the course of the two evenings.

Indeed if a person attended both nights Hopefully one of the things they would hear is that what I was saying Does not change depending on who I'm talking to that's not saying I don't use Language the different group would understand better.

But the the the message that was being proclaimed would be the same in both debates since the topic was Meant to be related to one another that would be The mass the second night as a perpetuaries a perpetuaries sacrifice with Robertson's and the first night was supposed to be the atonement.

Does the atonement perfect anyone it didn't end up really being focused on that? In fact, I think it's very obvious to anyone who watches That debate the the entirety of my opening statement basically was never challenged outside of saying Well, I'm not a biblical scholar so I really don't have any response to what has been said here however, there are other people who have responded to it and Therefore, you know, you need to go look at their interpretations as well.

I'm a philosopher and therefore I'm going to stick to these philosophical issues and Even then when responding to the philosophical issues that dr. Potter raised Since this was supposed to be on the atonement of Christ, then you have to use biblical categories to discuss this and So it was it was a little bit difficult from that perspective to really be overly focused upon the the subject at hand my my presentation was of course based upon the the idea of In of inter.

I'm sorry Substitutionary atonement because the fact that I had read in Dr. Potter's materials a denial of the concept that Jesus paid for our sins of substitutionary atonement things like that so I gave in my first 20 minutes a Simple hopefully focused biblical presentation of the biblical evidence for the Relationship in the Bible between the death of Christ the people of God their union with Christ the meaning of who pair substitutionary atonement all of that and then What I did was made a few comments on the supremacy of God's revelation over man's Philosophical categories and that if your philosophy isn't big enough to Fit the biblical categories and you need to get new ones and a few things like that and so that's what I did is I made that presentation and then he got up and He had asked to use an overhead now overheads.

You know, I'm sort of I don't know a Computer snob I would have preferred a the use of the digital projector which was right there Would have been nice actually had I known it was there to use it maybe if we're going to use that again in the future, I'll do that, but There is a digital projector up on the roof and it was ready to be used and instead we used an overhead and overheads let's face it are not easy to shoot video of and they don't I Don't know.

I just don't communicate real well. There's no color to them or anything like that and So We had a lot of trouble putting You know getting the the desk that is huge massive what we needed were six-foot desk.

We end up with nine-foot desks and they were massive and they were. It was it was and that's all the podium. Man, I felt safe behind it. I think it could take small arms fire And I think I could have climbed inside of it.

It was so huge. It's big massive podium. I even looked small behind it and dr. Potter's considerably smaller than I am so I Hopefully the camera angle was such That the camera is a little bit higher than we were at least even with us because if they had been down on a floor All you would have seen within the top of his head.

I mean, that's just the way it was is so huge and Anyways, we had a lot of trouble getting the tables situated in such a way and somehow get this overhead onto the desk so he could use it and so he puts up these these Little things and these these overheads and his entire thrust his entire argument Was basically to take some some statements from the statement of faith from the Alpha Omega Ministries website and they had to do with two and I guess he did not understand different issues and that is the relationship of Good works to faith and justification and then good works in sanctification and You know Ephesians 2 10 we've been created in Christ Jesus unto good works that God is before day and we should walk in them so on and so forth so forth and so He took those and on one slide and this was one of the problems I don't know how he would have fixed this other than realizing You know, this is not the kind of thing that works real well in a debate.

He put the Argument the the initial definition of the statements from our website on one thing and and then started doing he's a he's a logician. Okay, and if you studied I've taken symbolic logic in college and stuff like that.

And if you stay that stuff before you know, what a syllogism is, you know how to put together an argument. And so he's defining his you know, if this term is s and This this statement is T. And this is J then for every situation J in which s Is this and so on so forth so he puts the definitions on one?

Then he takes that off and he puts the argument on well It's not like anyone in the room including himself as far as I could tell could remember what any of the the letters Represented and so it was. It was next to impossible.

In fact, I don't think if you had ever seen If you had never seen his argument before I don't think you could have possibly followed it. Not only that but It seemed to me, okay, you can watch the video for yourself.

It seemed to me as if dr. Potter got lost presenting it. He he started to he stuttered a little bit and and it was like and then well s if if s is therefore follows from J and then there'd be a pause and well and then you see that and and you could look out at the at the audience and they are completely lost and He could tell it as well.

So when he gets done with his argument and and I I think I figured out enough of it to respond to it properly. The the and in fact, I wrote to dr. Potter this morning asked him to send me the text and I would demonstrate for him where the the argument went wrong and I did mention in in the debate where it went wrong and in gut it engages in equivocation.

It did not understand what our statement of faith means by good works the relationship of regeneration to justification Sanctification the nature of works meritorious works anything like that and I honestly do not believe that.

That dr. Potter knows reformed theology. Well enough. Remember he went to Notre Dame. You're not exactly going to get a lot of insight into Reformed theology at Notre Dame. I just don't believe that he understands the terminology and as I explained to him my email today Mormonism uses words in very specific ways.

And if I were to make an argument based upon the fact that in Mormonism Salvation is used in multiple ways that is you have General or universal salvation, which is simply equal to resurrection. Everyone will be saved that way and a Mormon could say that we're saved by grace alone.

What he means by that is we will be resurrected by grace alone, but then there's another use of salvation that Is more specific that specifically refers to individual Salvation. That is exaltation and that is not by grace alone so it'd be very easy to create a syllogism where you place those two statements that Salvation is by grace alone salvation is not by grace alone and say see it's incoherent.

It doesn't work. That'd be very easy to do but involves a misuse of terms therefore it is not a proper argument. Well, neither was his and I pointed that out and we'll be glad to point that out again to him if he would like to do so especially because he based his argument solely upon our statement of faith, and I wrote our statement of faith many years ago and Therefore I can comment.

I think with more expertise than most upon the actual meaning of that particular statement of faith. So I would be glad to do that. So after that presentation there were then standard Arminian and and Semi-pelagian arguments and those the terms he would use most the Mormons were lost in fact.

I was reading again someone gave me a URL to some comments from folks at the University of Utah who were there some Mormon folks and It was it was and this this isn't anything against them. They just don't understand these things.

Consistently Calvinism was misspelled it was Armenian Pelagian was misspelled these folks have never heard of these terms before they're wondering what this guy's talking about. But he at least knows what Arminianism is and what's a semi-pelagianism is and dr. Potter has said that plagiarist is his favorite ancient heretic.

And he very very I think if you were really to push him on it would hold to a very thoroughly Pelagian anthropology and made comments relevant to that during the course of the debate, but I Think most folks were just completely lost.

As to what his arguments were. Until he got toward the end of his 20 minutes where he basically started making standard arguments about free will. Stuff that is we have we have dealt with everything that he said in on the dividing line here and it's the standard stuff of calls we get all the time and so the interaction period was was Again, I think demonstrated that that dr. Potter was very Uncomfortable I think with the well, let me let me just sort of wrap it all up.

We'll take our break and I'll tell you about the second debate. He was uncomfortable with one aspect and That is when I speak about these things I do not speak without passion. We're talking about the atonement.

We're talking about life. That which gives life and I'm sorry, but I never learned how to be dispassionate about things. And I guess that's why I'll never be a quote-unquote real scholar. Because to be a real scholar for many people means that your passions have to be disengaged.

And I cannot be dispassionate about the cross so therefore I get up there and I gave my closing statement and I Presented the gospel now. I didn't just get up there and ignore the subjects. I didn't just wander off and start preaching but I obviously spoke with passion and When dr. Potter gave up got got up to give his final statement.

He basically started off by saying, you know This was this is fun This was this was this is different than what I'm accustomed to because what I'm I'm accustomed to, you know just dry scholasticism and and discussions of things from a scholastic perspective and and And boy, you know professor white is so is so passionate in in what he's saying.

I Really can't be. And that's what he said. I can't do that. He said He couldn't give a passionate conclusion. And I think that came out one of the audience questions that was asked was if Saddam Hussein Was earnestly seeking to know the Christian message or to know Christ.

What would be your advice be to him now? I when that was first asked my first response was well I would say any whatever I would say would need to be said quickly. What's the first thing I said, but then I answered in the same way from Acts chapter 16 the Philippian jailer.

What must I do to be saved believe in the Lord Jesus Christ? I I gave a very brief presentation of Christ's efficiency and and faith in him. The same question was then asked of dr Potter and his response basically was well I'd suggest he read the Christian scriptures the Sermon on the Mount the Sermon on the plane.

He tried to live in such a way as to exemplify The characteristics of Christ. I'm sitting here going this guy doesn't have long I mean this and in fact maybe as of last night. That was it we don't know yet, but that that may have been the end of that and the contrast was so Incredible and and I guess that's one of the reasons you know sometimes.

That's why these debates are done so that you can see The contrast in what is truly being said and I think that did come out so. That will be I'm sure before very long available on The website at mp3.

I'll be watching for the videos of it because I you know I personally think getting to watch Some of these debates if you have the time to do so I know a lot of you read the or listen to them up. Driving to work and things like that.

I understand that fully. But really getting to watch them to see the interaction Can help out a lot so that will be up and right after this break. We will tell you about the second debate between myself and Robertson Janice on the mass.

We'll be right back. This portion of the dividing line has been made possible by the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. The Apostle Paul spoke of the importance of solemnly testifying of the gospel of the grace of God.

The proclamation of God's truth is the most important element of his worship in his church. The elders and people of the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church invite you to worship with them this coming Lord's Day.

The morning Bible study begins at 9 30 a .m. And the worship service is at 10 45. Evening services are at 6 30 p .m. On Sunday and the Wednesday night prayer meeting is at 7. The Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church is located at 3805 North 12th Street in Phoenix.

You can call for further information at 602 2 6 grace. If you're unable to attend you can still participate with your computer and real audio at prbc .org. Where the ministry extends around the world through the archives of sermons and Bible study lessons available 24 hours a day.

More than any time in the past Roman Catholics and evangelicals are working together. They are standing shoulder-to-shoulder against social evils. They are joining across denominational boundaries in renewal movements and Many evangelicals are finding the history tradition and grandeur of the Roman Catholic Church appealing.

This newfound rapport has caused many evangelical leaders and laypeople to question the age-old disagreements that have divided Protestants and Catholics. Aren't we all saying the same thing in a different language.

James White's book the Roman Catholic controversy is an absorbing look at current views of tradition in Scripture the papacy the mass purgatorian indulgences and Marian doctrine. James White points out the crucial differences that remain regarding the Christian life and the heart of the gospel itself.

They cannot be ignored. Order your copy of the Roman Catholic controversy by going to our website at a omen org. What is dr. Norman Geisler warning the Christian community about in his book chosen, but free a new cult secularism.

False prophecy scenarios. No, dr. Geisler is sounding the alarm about a system of beliefs commonly called Calvinism. He insists that this belief system is theologically inconsistent Philosophically insufficient and morally repugnant.

In his book the potter's freedom. James White replies to dr. Geisler, but the potter's freedom is much more than just a reply. It is a defense of the very principles upon which the Protestant Reformation was founded.

Indeed it is a defense of the very gospel itself in a style that both scholars and laymen alike can appreciate. James White masterfully counters the evidence against so-called Extreme Calvinism. Defines what the reformed faith actually is and concludes that the gospel preached by the reformers is the very one taught in the pages of Scripture.

The potter's freedom a defense of the Reformation and a rebuttal to Norman Geisler's chosen. But free you'll find it in the reformed theology section of our bookstore at a omen org. The Trinity is a basic teaching of the Christian faith.

It defines God's essence and describes how he relates to us. James White's book the Forgotten Trinity is a concise understandable explanation of what the Trinity is and why it matters. It refutes cultic distortions of God as well as showing how a grasp of the significant teaching leads to renewed worship and deeper understanding of what it means to be a Christian and Amid today's emphasis on the renewing work of the Holy Spirit.

The Forgotten Trinity is a balanced look at all three persons of the Trinity. Dr. John MacArthur senior pastor of Grace Community Church says James White's lucid presentation will help lay person and pastor alike.

Highly recommended. You can order the Forgotten Trinity by going to our website at a omen org. And welcome back to the dividing line we are reviewing this past weekend's debates that took place on the campus the University of Utah in Salt Lake City and.

After that first day, we had a really good crowd on the first night. It was it was cold and It got the weather was not nearly as good the second night as it was the first it was colder wetter Snowier rainier the whole nine yards that may have impacted things.

We had we were we were pretty full up the first night. We had about 400 people there I'd say. And a large number of Mormons. Van Hale was there. Number of individuals I even saw Alma all read for the first time in a long time.

He was there and so It was it was well attended. The second night was not as well attended at all. And I think it was a combination of the fact that we didn't have most of our more the Mormon friends there that I think Might have come out if it were not the the night of the conference a and B if the weather had been better and furthermore something was happening at the Student Union Center because it was very difficult to find parking and so I think that Combination caused a little bit of a problem.

I would say we may have had 200 -220 maybe 250 at the most The the second night. I don't know I didn't sit there and count them. I mean it was. I've certainly spoken to smaller audiences. But it wasn't it wasn't as well attended and of course the subject itself Wouldn't be as attractive in the context of Utah as as it would elsewhere.

It's not like there's a huge Roman Catholic population. And of course there is the fact that Robertson Jennis has become a traditionalist. And if you go to the Catholic apologetics international website You can now find about as many articles skewering other Catholic apologists as myself.

In fact I will I will admit it is absolutely positively delicious To read Robertson Jennis going after art Sippo since I have been at times especially in 1999 the object of their combined wrath and ridicule.

It is just fascinating and I will admit very enjoyable To read Robertson Jennis saying about art Sippo the very same things I have said and to see art Sippo say the things about Robertson Jennis that I have said.

Nothing more enjoyable than that. But I think that that needs to be taken into consideration as well in Regards to why maybe there weren't more mainline Roman Catholics there simply because and Jennis has Separated himself from mainline Roman Catholicism.

You know I Saw that coming. I'm not surprised by it. That's consistent with Roberts history Bible Bob as he called himself in his days before converting to Roman Catholicism. Doesn't I think want to stand the shadow of anyone.

I think it could be said that he he is a magisterium of one in many ways and At the same time I personally have more respect For a traditionalist than I do a modernist in the sense that they at least see and understand and live Consistently with the ultimate authority claims of Rome the problem is they are a living refutation of Rome's authority claims.

It's a wonderful thing. I I applaud the traditionalists for getting out there and doing their thing because in essence They're proving my point for me. It's it's great. It's wonderful and and more power to him to do that, but so it wasn't as well attended and We both had little book tables set up.

He had a whole lot more books there than we do we are just. We're just not big on that stuff folks. That's just all there is to it. There's nothing wrong with it. We're just not that big on that kind of thing and So anyways this was supposed to be on the mass Perpetuatory sacrifice, and you might go didn't you do that one once before?

Yeah, 1999 and it was by far the nastiest Debate that mistress and Janice and I have ever done. The first debate wasn't overly friendly, but it was a tag-team debate and so he only had half the time of presentation and The person he was tag-teamed with became so flustered by the end of the debate that he was sputtering and literally spitting and his face was red and and this showers of blessing as he turned to us and sort of spat all over us while he was yelling and that made Robert look quite calm actually so that one you know was sort of in a league unto itself then the Justification debate and the papal infallibility debates that we did were very calm and collected.

Had to be especially in the papal infallibility debate because we had to self-moderate that one but the Mass debate in 1999 Long Island was just nasty. I mean if you listen to it I'm sure it's I think it's in the mp3 listing if you listen to it during the cross-examination period Mr. Syngenis wants to just make statements and he basically tells me to be quiet so he can make statements while he is supposed to be asking me questions and it was.

What he did in essence was in his opening statement try to put me on the defensive even though He's the one supposed to be defending his position by saying that what I wrote in a book that as of now has is about 13 or 14 years old's been out of print for a minimum of Seven years probably more like eight or nine years and Actually about ten years now I think about it called the fatal flaw and basically try to say that I was presenting a Catholic position By in essence misrepresenting it or misunderstanding it.

I didn't expect that. This is 2003 almost four years. After that rather failed attempt that he'd do the same thing, but he did. The opening statement was again mainly quotations from the fatal flaw saying well, this is the same thing that Rome is saying and so I only had 20 minutes, and I I refused to be drawn into this idea of Defending myself.

I was there to address the issue of the sacrifice of Christ the atoning work of Christ and so I focused upon the main issue in the book of Hebrews and A few things of patristics came up Again during the cross-examination unfortunately the vast majority of Mistress and Genesis questions had to do with the perseverance of the Saints, and this is something that I have I've seen over and over and over again.

You start off on one subject. Then you change to another subject. That your opponent has not had an opportunity to even begin to address or to build a meaningful case on. Especially when you know your opponent only wants to present meaningful arguments and not just make wild Unsubstantiated statements, and then you can say he hasn't responded my arguments because you're actually arguing against a different topic.

Roman Catholics do this in solo scriptura by waiting until the The cross-examination period when you only have a very limited amount of time then they bring up the issue of the canon knowing that neither side could make a meaningful presentation on the canon in a you know one minute response and Therefore they think that that somehow accomplishes something and and if your only purpose in debating is to keep your base happy.