Amazing Interview with Rose, Durbin, and Pierson

So Jeff Rose with Jeremiah Cry and the Herald Society. We're in Milton, Florida right now. Give us an update. What's happening here in Milton right now?

The Herald Society and Evangelism in Today's World

Well, we've got our third Herald Society here in Florida. The theme of the event is, How Shall They Hear? And it's evangelism in today's world. And it's amazing. Just the first day of the event, it's just been so volcanic and just so powerful, as I was telling you earlier that the preachers are just, I mean, are so on fire and just breathing truth behind the pulpit.

And it's just, there's an unusual power present in the preaching on the first day. And I've been getting feedback from people going, man, I have never experienced anything like this at a conference before.

I said, just wait. This is the first day. I said, wait till the third day. I said, the momentum will literally swallow you up.

Nice. So what do you think is the main theme that's coming across from all the preaching, everything going on? What are people capturing? What are you capturing?

I think it's the reality of the war at hand, the battle at hand. I think it's a lot of the preconceived ideas, a lot of the things that we've heard about evangelism and all these things. I think it's just the reality that there is an actual battle going on.

And I think it's almost like being snapped out of a spell and coming to a sobering reality that, wow. And then somebody handing you the right weapons and saying, man, this is great. I get it that there's a battle out there.

There's a war out there. But what's even greater is that there's men coming here, teaching me things that I'm able to go out into this world with confidence and bravery to get in the battle, not just to go out and be able to survive, but to go out and win.

That's powerful.

Public Proclamation of the Gospel

So you have laid your life down to reach people with the gospel in a way that is admittedly foreign to our culture. I mean, to go out and preach the gospel to people you don't know, to be in a position where you're on the streets in even violent places to preach the gospel.

And you're not going simply saying with a social welfare kind of program, going in just to bring water bottles, food. Obviously we think it's important as a church to take care of the needs of people, but you're going to take care of the fundamental need, the primary need, and that's their relationship with God.

And so you go into some dangerous places even to preach the gospel.

So tell me about that. Well, we go into Camden, which statistically it's considered the most dangerous city in America. And it's Death Valley. I mean, you go in there, there's people passed out on the pavement.

You've got young girls who have sold themselves to prostitution. They're so overloaded on drugs that they're just, you know, they're drooling on themselves. Their eyes rolled back in their head. They've overdosed on drugs.

You've got people laying around all over the place. It looks like a battlefield out there. And then you've got the cults that are taking advantage of the weak. So in one sense, you're trying to deal with people just on the verge of death.

And then on top of that, you're trying to hold back the tide of Islam and black Israelitism and all those trying to come in at the same time and trying to preach a faithful gospel at the same time. So it can really throw a guy like myself on tilt because I'm trying to figure out what do you do in a case like this because we can go out to the college campuses, we can go to the street corner, go to the bars, we can do all our, we can do our thing, we can go and preach the gospel to people that can hear and can see, you know, at least physically.

But here, it's almost like it's a third world country after it's been bombed. You know, you just have desolation everywhere. So how do you deal with these things? So it's really been a.

Learning experience for us. Okay. So talk to somebody in our culture, people are going to see this video, they're going to listen to you and just get a sense of your zeal and your passion for the gospel.

But talk to somebody that doesn't agree with the public proclamation of the gospel. Because I think that needs to be emphasized. People in our culture don't necessarily see that as a valid form of evangelism today.

To preach the gospel to someone that you don't know, to reach, to walk up to a person you have no relationship with and to tell them about Christ. And they'll say something to you, Jeff, like, you've got to first, Jeff, earn the right to preach the gospel to that person before you do it.

What do you say to them when they challenge.

You like that? Well, I always go back to the foundations of scripture and show them that in scripture that the public proclamation of the gospel has always been a principle from the very beginning of Genesis all the way to Revelation.

It's not a method. Methods go away, you know, times change, methods change, but it's not a method. It's a principle that will never go away. We see it from Genesis all the way to the book of Revelation.

You see, but the problem is that people have with the public proclamation of the gospel is that they have a problem with the word of God. So if you have a problem with the word of God, then you're going to have a problem with the means by which God wants his word to go forth.

So if you get right with God and right with his word, then you don't have a problem by which the way in which God wants his word to go forth, his means. If you don't get the gospel and you don't get the means by which the gospel goes forth, they're both connected.

You have a problem with the true gospel, you're going to have a problem with the way the true gospel is taken into the world as it says, how shall they hear in Romans 10 without a preacher? They're not.

If no one's saying anything, we're just filling teeth, building mud huts, and jumping in the ball pits. That's fantastic, fun, go do those things,.

But that's not the gospel and that's not preaching the word of God. Very good. Okay, Jeff, you have to probably in your life, because you laid it down for the gospel, you have a wife, you have kids, how many kids do you have?

I have seven. Seven children, yeah. The meek shall inherit the earth right there. Okay, so but you have to, in order to do what you're doing to lay your life down for the gospel, you have to make some decisions in your heart and your mind to be able to do this sort of thing because you're dependent upon God to provide for you, to provide for your family, to take care of your kids.

How many boys? I have one boy. One boy and six girls, oh man, that's awesome. But you have to trust in God to provide for your needs and you have to have something within you that causes you to persevere to do this kind of a work.

The Cost of Full-Time Ministry and Trusting God

It's not easy. I said yesterday in my message that it's easy to hate people. It's easy to hate people. Say and do nothing. Right. Don't lay your life down. Don't talk to them. Don't challenge them. That means you hate them.

So you've had to commit in your life to love people and to do certain things. Talk about that because people don't always recognize that. They see a guy like you on a street corner in a violent place preaching the gospel and their perception is probably different than is the reality of what it takes to be on that street to lay your life down for those people.

So talk about.

That. Well, it always comes from the reality that Jesus Christ is king and my wife and I both agree to the view of, you know, his command and we believe in the call on a preacher and coming from the local church out into the world to preach the gospel and we're both in alignment with that.

We both agree that this is what God has called us to do. The church agrees with it as well and the Bible agrees with it. So that is, I mean, we decided nine and a half years ago when we walked away from our business.

We sold our business, sold our house and stepped out. We decided a long time ago that we're not going to look back, you know, and my wife reminds me of that every Monday morning when I want to quit Jeremiah Cry Ministries because I've just had it, you know, and she reminds me, you know, we put our hands to the plow and now there's no looking back.

So with us, it's a Mueller style of lifestyle. I mean, we really have to depend on God and he's met all of our needs. He's never let us down and it works. It has a transforming effect when you've got to depend on God.

The dangers of a full freezer, you know, we have to depend on him. The rope's always tight. The tension's always there, you know, but God uses that to transform those in whom he's called for this. I would never encourage people to go out and do what I do unless they knew for certain that they were called to do it because I envy people at Walmart working a full-time job.

I look at them, I said, you know what, I can just imagine he's probably going home. He's got a check coming in the mail. He doesn't have any worries, you know, and here I am, you know what I mean? I got a family of eight, including myself, you know, nine.

So it's like I've got to be the provider. I've got to be the protector. I've got a responsibility and I'm accountable to God on the way that I take care of my family on top of that.

So that creates all kinds of things. That's so much easier. Okay, let's talk more about that because that's very important. I always tell people being in ministry like this is the hardest, ugliest, most difficult, heart-wrenching, bone-breaking, blood-spilling thing you'll ever do.

People might see a street preacher on the streets or a pastor, you know, and they think, that must be an amazing job. But you're like, it's just, it's an everyday difficult thing. And if you're called to it, you don't want anything else.

That's what you have to do. Right. But if you're not called to it, then you need to not do it. Right. Because it is not an easy life. It is a struggle every day to serve God in this way. It is, yes. Yeah,.

It really is. You just have to trust God and don't be afraid. I mean, I'm not afraid to go do anything else if God would have me to do that. I'm ready and willing to do whatever he'd asked me to do. If he said, hey, Jeff, I want you to hang this up and go work at Walmart, you know, hey, whatever the Lord wills, it's fine.

But I obviously know, we all know we've been designed to do what we're made for. I mean, it'd be like Michelangelo going out and doing something, becoming a famous runner. You know, he's been, he's a painter.

You can't take it out of the guy. And when God calls you to something, you know it for certain. And this is what God's called us to do. We must continue with it regardless of circumstance, especially in America.

You know, we're just so many, just like, you know, just a big old powder puff football game. You know, everybody's, everybody's, you know, they have to be comfortable. They have to be happy. So it's, if any kind of pain, then, you know, we, we want to escape it and we want to run and go do something else.

But like you said in your, in your message, it's, it's, you know, Jesus said, all those who will follow after him must take up their cross and follow me, you know, and, and I pray the Lord to give us the grace to do it and humility, you know, and that God would.

Keep our integrity and character intact. That's the most important thing. Sometimes God does call us to give our lives as martyrs for the faith. Sure. But sometimes he calls us to give up our paycheck.

Yeah. And people a lot of times aren't ready for that commitment is sometimes you'll be burned at the stake and sometimes you'll be burned at your paycheck. But both are equally from God, if he's called you to it.

Right. And equally valid sacrifices for the cause of the kingdom. And what Dr. White said something years ago, I remember he said it and I thought, when he said it, I thought, why would you do that? You're going to turn so many people away from ministry.

And now I fully understand after many years of full-time ministry, that if you could do anything else and be even remotely happy, then don't do full-time ministry. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That doesn't make sense now.

It makes complete sense to me. Because the thing is, is no matter how difficult this is and how ugly it is and how dark it is, if God's called.

You to it, you can't do anything else. Absolutely. And that's just it. I heard someone say, it was a lady who taught a theater and she said, I don't want people that want to act. I want those who have to act.

There you go. You know, it was, there's a difference. There's a have to here. It's not just, I want to go be at this, you know, this, this, this open air preacher or whatever, you know, it's, there's that, you know, there's, I have to do it, you know, and time, time waits for no one.

I'm 44 years old. You know, I could be dead tomorrow. We have to utilize the time which God has given us. I mean, everyone wants to talk about dying for Christ, but we need to live for Christ. To live for Christ in our country would be at the same level as someone dying for Christ in another country, because it's hard to live for Christ in this country with so many other clamoring voices wanting to demand and take your time and tell you something else or come and get this or so many other options.

In another country, you don't have all those options, you know? So they're like, you know, I've just got, I've just got God to hold on to. And then a lot of times they'll get, they'll get, they'll get killed for that.

But in our country, try to live for Christ, because it takes the exact same amount of bravery in our country to live for Christ as someone else would to die for Christ. So try to, if you can get your head screwed on straight and get your heart right and live in our country and serve Christ, to me, that's, that's a greater sacrifice than just.

Dying for Christ. Preach. There you go. Now you guys know why I love Jeff Rose so much.

Living for Christ, Not Just Dying for Christ

Well, tell us about, I love the example of the preacher you told us about. It was from England, right? Oh, yes. I love this story. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me about that. I was, I love that story.

He was in the time of 1665 and 1666, the great plague that come through London was wiping people out so fast that they were falling like leaves from, from trees under the, under, under a mighty wind. I mean, people being swept out, everybody in his house, the kids, everybody was dying all around him.

And he was a pastor and he had his church and everyone would say, I mean, you need to get out of here. You're going to die. And he said, I'm not leaving. And it said, he didn't just say I'm not leaving though, because we can also, well, I'm not leaving, but it said that he ran into the contagion.

He ran into the very infected area where people were dying. You know, he ran right into the very bowels of hell and began to preach the gospel. And as the death rate started to climb, the people who caught the disease were dying quicker.

And he said, this was a judgment of God upon London for their sins. Right. And he said, a lot of the preachers started jumping in. And because the death was killing people off so quickly within hours now that some of them were literally digging their graves behind them.

They weren't digging their foxhole. Right. They were digging their graves because they knew that within a few hours or probably a good chance, 90, probably 8 chance that they're going to get infected during their preaching.

And they're just going to die. So they might as well have their graves already dug. Wow. So this was their reality of the gospel and their view of life. They had already died. So dying was nothing to them.

They knew that the gospel was worth it. And I think when we get that view of the gospel, once again, we get the view of what we're doing, what we've been called to do, that we will take on that same form of worship in our lives, wherever we go, whatever we do, we won't treat it.

You know, they slighted the gospel. That's the number one reason that God brought judgment. They slighted the gospel, but not just the gospel, the gospel messengers as well. So they didn't slight the gospel, they slight you as well.

And God brought judgment upon them, but for many other reasons. But yeah, that story is very, very, very inspiring. And then the next year, they thought they're all safe. God burned practically all of London down.

So I mean,.

Union with Christ in Death and Resurrection

He's a righteous God. You just said something, I think, and I think this is a good place to end it. Just in light of what you just said about digging a hole behind you so you can preach and then fall back into it.

You said they had already died. Yes. Yeah. As Christians, we enter into this relationship with Christ as being joined to him in his death and resurrection. Everything that Paul talks about when he talks about identity in Christ, he talks about in terms of you died and then raised, you're seated with him in the heavenly places.

So they were able to do that.

Because they had already died. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. They saw, I think what they saw wasn't, being a Christian wasn't escaping hell, but being a Christian was serving the king. And there was a two different views.

There was like, am I out here because I want to escape hell? Is that my motivation? Or is it for the other reason, because I want to exalt my king?

Two different motives there. And the 21st century evangelical Christianity in America right now has the heaven hell kind of, you know, you get your ticket punched for heaven one day, you're not going to go to hell any longer, which is very weird.

It warps the gospel. It really does when we just, when we emphasize, overemphasize particular elements of the gospel story that we have eternal life and heaven one day. But the issue, you're right, is reconciliation with God.

Christ is king. We're saved. We proclaim the message of the king to the world and reconciliation and peace with this God, not just heaven, hell scenarios.

Yeah. I mean, if your motive is because you love king Christ, I mean, there is a completely different zealousness that comes out of you, you know, because you're doing it because he is the king of kings and you're out there because you love him.

You're motivated by your king opposed for the more from the humanistic perspective of just trying to try to pull some from something that they deserve. You know, we don't want people to go to hell. Don't get me wrong.

I would never be sadistic like that. I mean, of course you want, we want to preach as many people as we can. We want the reality that people are dying and going to hell. We want to reach them. We want to pull them from the fire.

We should have all those motives. But the ultimate motive is our view of Christ would be the ultimate seedbed and, you know, foundational stone of why we do what we do, because this is how you escape burnout.

Yeah. You know, because you know that you're doing it for a rule, a king that's already ruling and reigning opposed to one that's been.

Rejected and it's going to rule in the future. Well, it definitely gives a new meaning to live as Christ as die as gain, huh? It does. It does. You know, those guys were literally living for.

Christ and then dying and gaining. Yeah. Someone that can actually do that. I mean, I just, I just feel so guilty because I don't, I just, I'm convicted by, I'm not sure, you know, I mean, I'm so cold most of the time.

I think, you know, God, I, I weep because I don't weep, you know, and it's like, I need to weep more. I need to be more broken. I need to have more care. And I, these are things that I'm always seeing as I draw near to Christ, you know, my, just my, my,.

My inability, you know. Well, this is most definitely been a great conversation. Yes.

Thanks, Jeff. Thank you guys. Appreciate you, man.