February 20, 2023 Show with Jerry Dorris & Austin Keeler on “The Asbury Revival”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of Founding Father James Wilson, 19th Century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th Century Gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today. Proverbs, Chapter 27, Verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have an view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 20th day of February, 2023.

Introduction to Reformation Church and the Asbury Revival Discussion

I am thrilled to have on the program today both a returning guest and a first-time guest, and they are both pastors of Reformation Church of Shelbyville, Kentucky. I have returning to us on the program, who hasn't been on the show since February 25th of 2021, when I interviewed him and Ryan Denton on key elements of true evangelism.

I'm speaking of Jerry Doris, who is one of the pastors of Reformation Church of Shelbyville, Kentucky. And we are also going to be joined by a first-time guest, Austin Keeler, also pastor of Reformation Church of Shelbyville, Kentucky.

They're both going to be addressing the Asbury Revival, observations, biblical and historical comparisons, and responses from concerned local pastors and eyewitnesses. First of all, let me welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Jerry Doris.

It's good to be here. Thanks for having me back, sir.

It's great to have you back, and welcome for the first time, Austin Keeler.

Thanks, Chris. Thanks for having me.

First of all, Jerry, why don't you give our listeners a description of Reformation Church of Shelbyville, Kentucky.

Sure. We are a 1689 Reformed Baptist fellowship in Shelbyville, and we started our church on the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation in 2017, and so we named ourselves Reformation Church. Across all the windows of our church, we have the five solas.

The Lord is greatly blessing us. We have six elders in our church. We are known for being out in our community doing evangelism. In fact, just this last Saturday night, we were out proclaiming the gospel at a pride event that was happening in our little town here.

And then Austin, just here a little bit ago, returned from the University of Louisville. He and another brother from church were proclaiming the gospel out there.

Amen, and I'm assuming that we should clarify that you're speaking about an event that was there to celebrate the damnable and unnatural sin of homosexuality, and that you were not there to support it, but you were there to proclaim the gospel in the midst of it.

Yeah, let's clarify that for certain. If you can imagine, Shelbyville is Mayberry. That's what it's supposed to be, and there's a local bar that has had a drag show, and we felt compelled that we needed to go and proclaim the Lord Jesus Christ, his authority over that place, that he should be honored in our city.

Amen. Well, now, Austin, since you are a first-time guest, unlike Jerry Doris, Austin, we have a tradition here at Iron Trip and Zion Radio. Whenever we have a first-time guest on the program, that guest gives a summary of their salvation testimony, including any kind of religious atmosphere in which you were raised, and any kind of providential circumstances our Sovereign Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you.

So let's hear a summary of your story.

Yeah, well, I grew up going to church. I was involved in youth groups and things of that nature, but I never knew the Lord, and from an early age, though I was put in church by my parents, my other life was pursuing sin with much zeal, and so that escalated until I had left church altogether, and through high school and through some of college, just pursuing my sin, pursuing my selfishness, and living a very depraved lifestyle, really questioning whether or not what the Bible said was true.

I think I knew that Jesus was Lord. I just loved my sin. And it wasn't until the summer of 2013, when I was 20 years old, that the Lord began to convict me of my sin through the preaching of his word, and that happened this way.

I would often not be able to sleep unless I was intoxicated by some kind of substance, and during one night when I was not sober, I happened upon some sermons on YouTube, and I heard something, and so I kept listening night after night, and the Lord was faithful to bring me under conviction of my sin, and that lasted for a few months until September 1, 2013.

The Lord met me around midnight. He made the gospel clear to me. He made my own depravity clear to me. He made me a new creation that night, and yeah, that's the day that he saved me.

Praise God, and how did you come to discover and embrace Reformed theology?

Well, after I was converted, I went back to the last church that I had been at, and that was a Christian and Missionary Alliance church, and it's a good church, but my process of Reforming began pretty immediately.

It wasn't long before I realized that I was a Calvinist. I didn't study Calvinism and choose Calvinism. I had read the Bible, and then I learned what Calvinism was, and I realized this is what I believe, and so Calvinism was the first step to my Reforming, and then topics such as ecclesiology and things like that began to slowly be further Reforming over time, and I'm still Reforming today.

And we all should be, and it might please you to know, in fact, I know it will please you to know, that the local Christian and Missionary Alliance pastor here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, where I'm sitting, he is thoroughly theologically Reformed, and I know that that is a rarity in that denomination, but it does exist from time to time.

Yeah.

And David Monreal is his name. He's a dear friend and a wonderful brother. I met him at a Banner of Truth conference, and I'm continuing to enjoy a lot of wonderful fellowship with him. Since you mentioned something about your testimony that involves addiction, something that I myself also have been delivered from by the praise, honor, and glory, and mercy, and grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, I was addicted very seriously to alcohol in a scandalous degree and was on the margin of being excommunicated, but I followed the principles that my elders insisted upon, and I admitted myself into Hebron Colony in Boone, North Carolina.

I always look for opportunities to praise this wonderful ministry, Hebron Colony, which is the oldest continually running addiction recovery ministry for men in the United States. It started after World War II when a Presbyterian minister began witnessing many G .I .s coming back from overseas as drunkards, and he started the ministry for them, and it continues today.

It's absolutely free of charge, which is unusual even for a Christian addiction recovery ministry. And I'm not saying that this is going to happen to everyone who submits to their program, but I have left there not even for a minute craving alcohol again.

So I praise God for this wonderful organization, and yes, I know there are many of our Reformed brethren who recognize that drinking alcohol in moderation and responsibly is a liberty, at least most of us who are Reformed believe that, but I cannot touch the stuff ever again.

I know myself too well, and I would never put myself at risk again, nor bring into question my testimony again by touching the stuff. But anyway, I just thought I'd mention that. Well, I'm going to give our listeners the email address right away if they have questions for you.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's say you are in a church that has a particular view of the so-called Asbury Revival that you vociferously disagree with, and you'd rather not bring up your identity in public because of this disagreement you have.

You might even be a pastor who disagrees with his own elders or his congregation in the majority or his denomination. Well, we understand those would be reasons to remain anonymous, but if it's a general question, please give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

I think a good place to start would be if you could each, and I'll start with Jerry this time, give a definition of what a revival is because there's so much confusion over what that means. Many average people, perhaps outside of the church, but even, I think, many if not most people within the body of Christ have a misunderstanding about what that word even means, and some churches, whether they be fundamentalists or even charismatic and Pentecostal, will even advertise there will be a revival meeting next week, Wednesday night at 7 or what have you, and they can think, or they often think, I should say, that in the midst of having a gathering where they are hoping for and praying for revival that this is definitely going to happen, and they'll even call the gathering itself a revival that they have manufactured and scheduled and so on.

But Jerry, what is a revival in reality according to the Bible, and even perhaps give some of the examples from history?

Yeah, brothers, a revival, it happens when the gospel is being preached and there is conviction of sin and brokenness over sin, and people are turning from their sins and they are turning to Christ. There's a couple of examples of that that we see in the scriptures.

Obviously, before the clarity that we have in Christ, you see it in the book of Jonah, when Jonah is sent to Nineveh to proclaim God's pending judgment against them, and the entire city responds in repentance and brokenness before God and calling out to Him.

And then I also, you know, you look at Acts 19, it has a couple of them, and specifically the one that stands out to me is you have the preaching of the gospel happening and then people are burning their books of witchcraft and things like that.

There's just this brokenness over sin. And of course, that is because the Holy Spirit Himself, as Jesus promised, would come and convict of sin, righteousness, and judgment to come. And so that's principally what we would look for in a biblical revival.

And so when you look in history, that's the kind of responses. The bars are emptied. There's people that are turning away from sin and people coming off the streets in repentance and brokenness because of the heavy weight of sin.

And, Austin, do you have anything to add to that description?

No, I just add that revival is the vivification of that which was dead. What revival isn't is excitement. Revival isn't emotionalism. And revival isn't something that can be scheduled. When we start equating revival with our activity and guaranteeing that there is a time and a place that it will happen, then we do equate it with our activity and we'll claim, no matter what the outcome of our activity is, that revival happened because our event happened.

And, of course, I'm assuming you would agree with me that there is a difference between emotionalism, which you mentioned in a negative fashion, and genuine, regenerate people demonstrating emotionally the joy in the Lord that may be occurring in a revival, that should be actually occurring in a revival if it was genuine.

I would be skeptical of a revival or so-called revival if there was no emotional response to it.

Right. Absolutely. Emotions are good. And they are expressed in worship to our God. How can you not be emotional when you think about the gospel of our Lord?

Amen. And I am reminded of the Welsh revival in the early 20th century. Not that I was alive during that period, but I learned of it, I believe, for the first time from my friend Peter Jeffery, who is now in eternity with Christ.

When he first came to the United States to preach at the church where I am a member, Grace Reformed Baptist, where I should say where I was a member before moving to Pennsylvania, Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island, Peter described what occurred at the Welsh revival of the early 20th century.

One of the hallmarks that accompanied it was that Wales was known for the mining industry. And during this revival, the mines began being filled with tools that were stolen previously by people who later were overcome by guilt during the revival, and that they had stolen these and then they had returned them.

So you have there an evidence of repentance taking place. But let's now enter into the actual so-called revival that we are examining today. And by the way, I want to recommend to all of you, and please wait till this live radio show is over, but there is a video that you can see on YouTube.

I think they're still calling them videos these days. But on YouTube, you can see a discussion that John Harris had with both of my guests. John Harris has been on this program before, and he did an excellent job interviewing Jerry Doris and Austin Keillor on this very subject.

And I was very impressed by the demeanor all three of you demonstrated. This was not a time of arrogant dismissal of anything that was occurring outside of your own ministries or outside of the Reformed community, if you will.

And perhaps, Jerry, you can mention to our listeners your thoughts on a danger that many of us may be guilty of succumbing to, where because of perhaps pride or just a recognition that we believe, and I don't think there's anything wrong with us believing that our theological understanding, that means the Reformed community, that our theological understanding is a superior understanding than other views of the Scripture.

But we can never allow that to lift us up, puff us up in pride, where we dismiss things that are going on for the glory of God in other communions, if you will. But if you could just say a few words about that.

Yeah.

Well, just to put it in context, why we even went to this is because our church is only an hour away from Asbury, and we have quite a few people within our own fellowship that were graduates from Asbury or are connected through that, through our students as well.

And so when we talk about this, we also want to recognize that and be gentle with it, because these are brothers and sisters in Christ that are affected by this. They have to give answers to their families.

And if we come across in an arrogant way about this topic, we set them on edge unnecessarily. And that's not our heart either. Our experience, my experience, and Austin would echo this, I think, is that the people that were going to this are genuine believers.

They're genuinely seeking after the Lord for the most part. I mean, I think we can identify some charlatans in the midst and some different churches that we would have great objection to being there. But for the most part, these are people that are wanting to experience a fresh outpouring of the Spirit, I guess.

And so in innocence, they go to these things they don't understand. And so they sing songs that they don't understand, the source of the song who wrote them, the theology behind the church that wrote a particular song.

And so they can sing that with a good conscience and not feel like they're doing anything wrong. And so we want to honor that and recognize that good people that love the Lord are going to this place.

And some of them, I would even add this, may in fact have a new understanding of repentance or confess a sin or have some sort of an experience. So in that way, praise God. Let there be revival in those ways.

Let God use this to whatever glory he wants. So if that's as generous of a statement as I can make on that. Now, obviously, I have a lot of objections to the things that I have seen and heard and personally experienced in this.

But I want to preface it with that. And I think that's the spirit of which you're asking me to say that.

Yes, in fact, I want to remind our listeners that my guests are eyewitnesses, not that they've been there every hour for everything that is occurring in Asbury, but they have been there for multiple hours observing this.

And maybe I will clarify something I said. And perhaps Jerry and Austin can either agree with me or disagree. But while I believe it is very proper if you believe your theological system is the most accurate reflection of what the Bible teaches, there's nothing wrong with believing that and saying that.

But there is a big difference between that and thinking that you're a superior Christian. There may be many people outside of the Reformed camp who are superior to the three of us in their humility, into their obedience to Christ, into the way they obey Christ in their marriages and in their parenting and in their compassion to the world around us.

So we have to be careful when we say that we believe our theology is superior to saying that and contrasting that with saying we are superior. I'm sure neither of you are making that bold assertion.

No.

And Austin, I was very also impressed that you had a spirit that was somewhat optimistic, at least hopeful that what you were about to witness before you attended these services or this ongoing service, you were hoping that this may be a long-awaited revival and it's in reality.

But, well, first of all, isn't that true that you are not just immediately dismissing it because of the location of this revival and the general theological positions of those who are personally involved in it?

No.

Looking on from afar before we went there ourselves, I was certainly hopeful and wanting to go and give the best report I could possibly give to the people of our local church. I was hoping absolutely for the best.

I fully believe that God can do a mighty work through people who theologically disagree with me.

Amen.

Why the Gospel Must Be Clear in Any Revival

And before we go to our first commercial break, perhaps I'll start with you, Jerry. Why is this discussion we're having important? There are some who will just call us cosmic killjoys. Why are you concerning yourself over something that has borne some good fruit amongst people of a different theological position than any of you?

Why don't you just allow the blessings of those who are involved in it to continue uncriticized and let these people reap the benefits from whatever is occurring that seems to be positive? Why do you have to be such nitpickers and examine these things with a microscope to the point of sucking the joy and life out of them?

How do you respond to that kind of criticism, which I know I will hear from some people that I even call friends, not necessarily the Reformed people, but I will hear that. But if you could, Jerry, and then we'll have you, Austin, before we go to the break.

Wherever the gospel is distorted, I think those that understand with clarity the gospel need to speak up. And that is the primary concern that I have coming out of this, is that the gospel being presented is distorted.

And so when the gospel is distorted, then we have the reality of false conversion, people thinking that they're okay with God because they've had an experience with God, but when they've not understood the gospel, they have not come to genuine faith.

An emotional experience is not salvation. Now, that doesn't mean salvation isn't accompanied with that. That's why there is the reality of true and false conversion. When we look in Matthew 7 and 21 and around in that area, and it talks about people standing before the Lord Jesus Christ on the Day of Judgment and saying, Lord, Lord, and then they list all the things that they did, guess what?

Those things are the very things that are being said are happening here at this event. And so he says, I never knew you. So this is imperative that the gospel is right in the midst of a supposed revival.

Any added thoughts, Austin?

I'd just say that's absolutely right. If the gospel isn't being clearly unfolded to these people who have gathered to worship God, they may end up worshiping a Jesus that they don't know very well,.

Or at all.

And so that's part of our concern.

Amen, as well as it should be. And we are going to our first commercial break. I'd like to remind my guests to mute themselves as we go to this break. And I'd like to remind all of you that if you have questions, we already have people waiting to have their questions asked and answered.

But if you want to get in line, our e-mail address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. As I said earlier, please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away. We're going to be right back with more of our examination on the Asbury Revival after these messages.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the G3 National Conference.

That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd on a theme that I have been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries. And there's more great news. Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 discount off the registration fee.

Go to g3nin .org, that's g3nin .org, and enter promo code G3ISIR. That's G3ISIR for the 30 discount. Chris Arnzen, I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the G3 National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God.

Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while you're there. Go to g3nin .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for your 30 discount off the registration fee.

I'm Brian McLaughlin, president of the SecureComm Group.

And an enthusiastic supporter of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Program. The SecureComm Group provides the highest level of security, access control, and communication systems for Manhattan's top residential buildings, as well as churches, commercial properties, municipalities, and more.

We custom install exactly what you need to protect yourself, including digital recording, off-site viewing, and connectivity from most smart devices. From simple code-activated systems to the latest technology using facial recognition, the SecureComm Group has it.

We also provide the latest in intercom and IP telephone systems. In addition, we provide superior networking platforms. We'll create, maintain, and secure your local network. Whether it's a Wi-Fi or hardwire network, we'll implement the latest secured firewall, endpoint solutions, and cloud backup.

I would love to have the honor and privilege of helping protect the lives and property of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners and their associates. For more details on how the SecureComm Group may be of service to you with the very latest in security innovations, call 718 -353 -3355.

That's 718 -353 -3355. Or visit securecommgroup .com. That's securecommgroup .com. This is Brian McLaughlin of the SecureComm Group, joining Chris Armstrong's family of advertisers to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

Puritan Reformed is a Bible-believing, kingdom-building, devil-fighting church. We're devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in Scripture alone. Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image-bearing prophets, priests, and kings.

We teach families to worship together as families. Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea. We sing the Psalms, teach the law, proclaim the gospel, make disciples, maintain discipline, and exalt Christ.

This is Pastor David Reis of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix, Arizona. Join us in the glorious cause of advancing Christ's crown and covenant over the kings of the earth. Puritan Reformed Church. Believe.

Build. Fight. Puritanphx .com. The Prince of Preachers, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, once said, Growing a beard is a habit most natural, scriptural, manly, and beneficial. Grace and peace to all the Iron Sharpens Iron listeners.

This is Tony with thestandardbeardcare .com. That's right, thestandardbeardcare .com is a Christ-exalting, better-known, and simple name in beard care. So if you have a beard, know a guy with a beard, or ladies, if you're married to a man with a beard, head over to thestandardbeardcare .com.

Check out the vast array of all-natural, hand-crafted products to make that beard scriptural, manly, and beneficial. And when you do so, you will help to support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. When you use the promo code IRON at checkout, you will receive free shipping to anywhere in the lower 48, and 10 of your donations will go back to Chris Arntzen and Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

So head over to thestandardbeardcare .com, where the standard is the standard.

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary. Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight-volume commentary on the Theology and Ethics of the Westminster Larger Catechism, titled Authentic Christianity, by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.

It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology. Dr. Morecraft is Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

For details on the eight-volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com. For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, that Dr. Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.

This is Darrell Bernard Harrison, co-host of the Just Thinking Podcast, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Tom Buck at First Baptist Church in Lindale, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Kent Keller of Faith Bible Church in Sharpsburg, Georgia, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Andrew Rappaport, the Founder and Executive Director at Striving for Eternity Ministries, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Mark Rimaldi, Pastor of Sovereign Grace Church of Greenbrier, Tennessee, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Christopher Cookston, Pastor of Prineville Community Church in Prineville, Oregon, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Matt Tarr, Pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Larchville, Pennsylvania, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com to place your order.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, praise God for the generous monthly financial support of Royal Diadem Jewelers, educated by and affiliated with the American Gem Society, Jewelers of America, and the Gemological Institute of America.

For the perfect custom-designed engagement ring, or any one-of-a-kind piece of jewelry, created exactly according to your imagination and specifications, Royal Diadem Jewelers has you covered. No matter where you live in the world, Royal Diadem will walk you step-by-step through every stage of the process, and even hold a high-tech internet virtual visit using state-of-the-art jewelry design technology to serve you.

They start by listening carefully to determine your needs. They're interested in making what you want, not what they want to sell you. From rough design to digital model, to photorealistic image, to wax prototype model, to the finished product, they're continually listening to your input, likes and dislikes, making any changes necessary along the way.

This will ensure that your custom jewelry will turn out exactly as you dreamed, and well beyond your expectations. Visit royaldiadem .com. That's royaldiadem .com today. Sterling Vanderwercker, owner of Royal Diadem Jewelers, his wife, Bronnie, his business partner and manager, Brian Wilson, and the entire family, thank you all for listening to, praying for, and supporting the work of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And don't forget, folks, royaldiadem .com is still offering Iron Sharpens Iron Radio 100 of the profits from any sale of jewelry valued at $100 or more to an Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener, as long as that listener, whoever you are, mentions Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, we will receive 100 of the profits from that sale, whether you are purchasing a piece of jewelry that's already in stock at royaldiadem .com, or whether you're having a custom piece of jewelry created, like an engagement ring, or even taking your church logo, parachurch ministry logo, your denomination logo, your seminary logo, or anything else your imagination and creativity can conjure up, turning whatever is in your mind into a physical piece of jewelry is what they specialize in doing.

I have seen firsthand the mastery that they have over creating custom-designed jewelry. So please, if you would like to have jewelry, either what they have in stock or a custom piece of jewelry, either to bless yourself or to bless someone else in your life, please bless Iron Sharpens Iron Radio at the same time by going to royaldiadem .com and mentioning Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

We are now back with our guests, Jerry Doris and Austin Keeler. They're both pastors of Reformation Church of Shelbyville, Kentucky, which is a confessional Reformed Baptist church. We are addressing the Asbury Revival Observations, Biblical and Historical Comparisons, and Responses from Concerned Local Pastors and Eyewitnesses.

Our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, chrisarnzen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. Before I go to any of our listener questions, I would like, perhaps we'll start with Austin this time.

I would like you to list at least some of the positive things that you have witnessed that is going on in Asbury before we get into a more critical examination. And even before you do that, this has some kind of historic significance as far as the location.

Isn't this where the birthplace of Pentecostalism took place in the early 20th century?

Well, I'm not familiar with the birthplace of Pentecostalism. Maybe Jerry can help out with that. But I do know that there have been several revivals, quote-unquote, like this that's happening now throughout the history of Asbury University.

Positive things that we've seen, as was alluded to earlier, there are genuine believers and there are sincere people who are gathering to sing the praises of God. And that is a good thing. I've been an eyewitness to that.

And another thing I've seen is Christians praying for one another. That's a good thing that I have seen. You know, being a Methodist school, they have a rich musical history to draw from. And so while not every song was theologically rich or even biblical, there were many songs that were sung that contained solid gospel elements within.

So those are some positive things that we have observed.

And Jerry, you care to add anything?

No, I just echo those things. I mean, anytime people are worshiping Christ, I think that's a good thing. I saw a lot of fellowship. We actually saw people that we knew there. We've heard of other people going there, so there's that sense.

I've seen some things that have shown up. There was people being generous to a foreign student. Anytime they can meet the needs, the physical needs of people, I mean, who would not celebrate something good like that?

So I was encouraged by those kind of things as well. The people that we sat next to, they seemed to be just genuine believers wanting to see what was going on.

And also, when we get involved in a critical examination of something like this that happens, have there not been a mixture in history when true biblical revivals have taken place? When I say biblical, I don't mean revivals in the scriptures, but I'm saying revivals that most Christians generally agree were from heaven.

They were reflective of biblical truth, such as when one of our heroes of the faith, Jonathan Edwards, was ministering. Has there not been a mixture of biblical orthodoxy and sound things going on with aberrant and even heretical things or bizarre things that have taken place?

Jerry, maybe we'll start with you.

Sure, yeah, absolutely. You see that. There's always fringe people, even in this event that we just saw. I mean, you have people like Kenneth Copeland trying to come into this. Todd Bentley tried to glean off of these things.

You have the sideshows, as it were, that we would all agree are aberrant and wrong. When we evaluate it, we want to look at it in its general message. It's what's happening there, not necessarily the peripheral things that are surrounding it.

Well, I guess. Let's have you continue your train of thought, Jerry. Now it's time to reveal some of the things that you are most concerned about that you have witnessed at this so-called revival when you open up your Bible and you compare what is happening with what you learned from the God-bereaved inerrant Scripture.

Well, the first thing that I was immediately concerned with was just the rhythmic music that was going. It just reminded me. I come from a charismatic background. When I first came to Christ, I was saved in a church that was very much like this.

And so it's very driven by emotion. And so that was what I noticed right away, is everybody having an emotional experience. Not that when we sing rich theological songs, because of truth, we should be moved by those things.

But when you're just moved by repeating the Hebrew name of Jesus, for example, Yeshua, that's one of the songs that they would sing, and it just drums on and on. It really becomes a mantra. And so I just had a check, I guess, mentally about that.