October 20, 2015 Show with Ken Ham & Britt Beemer on “Ready to Return: Bringing Back the Church’s Lost Generation” AND Paul Taylor on “Where Birds Eat Horses: The Language of Evolution”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the

planet earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this

20th day of October 2015.

I'm very excited to have a guest back on the program.

He hasn't been on the program for many years, and this is his first time on the all -new Iron Sharpens

Iron, and his name is no stranger, I'm sure, to the vast majority of those listening today.

His name is Ken Ham, and he is a world -renowned young earth creationist,

and he is going to be discussing his new book, Ready to Return, Bringing Back the Church's

Lost Generation.

And Ken is also the president, CEO, and founder of Answers in

Genesis, and the highly acclaimed Creation Museum founder.

And it is my honor and privilege to welcome you back to the Iron Sharpens Iron program, Ken Ham.

Hi, Chris.

Hi, it's great to be back with you again.

And before we even go into the contents of your new book, tell us something about this exciting project

involving Noah's Ark that you're involved in.

Well,

eight

years

ago, we,

85 feet wide, were building the timber

for

the

new

book, Ready to Return.

He did research

for

it.

Wow.

Now, has there ever been a replica of the Ark done in the actual

dimensions from the Bible before?

Well, you know, there's really only two others.

There is

one in the

Netherlands, and

there's

nothing

ever

been done

of this week

in the world in that

regard.

And it will be, timber framing is a specialized way of building a wooden structure.

This is going to be the biggest in the world, and so it's going to be a world -class attraction.

And there's going to be a big evangelistic emphasis to it, and that

is, we need to go through a door.

And you know, even this new book, Planning

Your Generation,

and they're going to hear a message of...

Now, why on earth did the communist government of China get involved in creating a

replica of Noah's Ark?

Yeah, I don't know.

It's really a building up.

Great.

Well, I'm going to announce our email address, if any of our listeners would like to email your own question to Ken

Ham about his book, Ready to Return, Bringing Back the Church's Lost Generation.

Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at

gmail .com, that's C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please include at least your first name, the city and state where you reside, and the country where

you reside if you live outside of the United States.

Well, first of all, Ken, as I've already announced, we are discussing your new book, Ready

to Return, Bringing Back the Church's Lost Generation.

Obviously, many Christians, as soon as they see the word return in the title of a book, they immediately jump to

eschatology about the return of Christ, but this is not the subject of your book, necessarily.

It is, the subtitle gives it away, Bringing Back the Church's Lost Generation.

Tell us something about why you felt the need to write this book.

Well, it's

really a

sequel to

another

book

that

was

published.

Now, that

was the

first,

the

reason

we

called

it a holy book

by God,

and

that's

just some of the,

they struggle,

this is showing is

that they're

going

to be the leaders

of

the future in America, and

we have

to

make sure that...

Now, you are declaring a call to a new reformation.

Unfortunately, the liberals, and the apostates, and

those that are really coming from a view that is the antithesis of ours, are

saying the same thing.

Of course, they mean something entirely different by it, that their reformation involves

reinterpreting scripture and obviously eradicating everything they don't like

out of scripture.

What is your understanding, or what is your intention by declaring a call for a new

reformation?

Well, first of all,

just as the same

way that the...

So, we go

back to

Genesis

3, and let's see what that meant, and I

call that...

And that's been the battle ever since.

So, the battle is going to be over authority, and if you think about it,

it's really a

battle

over

in Genesis,

and they're

really making man...

And when you do that, just to say you don't have to

take...

You can start outside of God, shouldn't you start

outside of...

They really want what they call is, oh, we're living in a different...

The Bible is this outdated book of mythology, so now we...

A man to man, we need to change, we

need to change our belief in...

You've got no

foundation for any

doctrine.

For

instance,

take

the issue

of marriage, which is...

I would say to people, if they ask me, what do you believe about marriage?

I would say, well,

Matthew 19, we're saying, haven't

you read?

He made the male and female, and this is the reason the man leaves his father and mother, cleaves unto his wife.

They'll become

one because you're one flesh.

And so, if you get away from that and say, no, Genesis is not literal history, which is what the liberals

today are saying, that we...

Genesis is an outdated story, that marriage can be defined any way you want.

That's why we've got to return to the authority of the Word of God.

And of course, we have an even more difficult challenge than.

Merely facing those that deny the inerrancy of the Scripture.

We have those who are masquerading as evangelicals, evangelical homosexual movements and things like that,

that say they love the Word of God and believe in it, but reinterpret things such as all the

condemnations against homosexuality is typically claimed to be only referring to

those involved in prostitution or some kind of non -monogamous behavior.

But they would say that Paul, in his day, was unaware of

loving monogamous relationships between those of the same sex and that kind of a thing.

So, that's where we really have more difficult challenges, when we're fighting people that...

When I say fighting people, I mean opposing them in theological discussion, trying to

refute them.

So that they may see the truth.

Well, I think, too, in regard to that,

so,

you

know,

some

of

those

people...

We do

have

a

listener

from

Sharpsburg,

Georgia,.

Lou, who asks, are you still getting feedback from the Nye

debate?

NYE is obviously talking about Bill Nye, the science guy, who you debated.

Are you still getting feedback about that?

Oh, the

answer

to

that

is

yes, over

a

year

ago,

and

so

I made

that.

Very,

very

sure

is

what

he makes out to be, and I believe we need to be praying for Bill Nye.

Amen.

In fact, I saw Bill Nye subsequent to that debate on a

major talk show, and he was calling for people to

unite and make sure that no creationists are elected to their local school boards.

And his reason was, his main reason, is because if you have

creationists on school boards, it's going to prevent children from learning true science, which

will result in the prevention of finding a resolution

to world hunger.

He's actually blaming us for world hunger.

Yep, and, you know, even at the debate, and many times since, and even before the debate...

In fact, isn't all science supposed to be observational?

Well, science means knowledge, and, you know, we've got to

remember, we weren't there to

see those things, so that's historical science

concerning the past.

Observational science, hey, I can go out and we can

get some metals, and we can look at their properties, and then we can use those metals in designing some

technology, and so on.

And that's why people need to understand.

That difference.

We do have John in Phoenix, Arizona, who writes, how can we as individual members of the church

take part in helping those entangled in post -modernistic.

Thinking?

Yeah, that's a good question, and, you know, in the book, Ready to Return, we actually have a couple of chapters

where we're

saying, look, this

stuff with the fact

that parents need to start taking responsibility for the education of their children, because it

starts at home, right, from

where to

be teaching

them.

That's a

big

part of it.

A big part of what needs to be done is get back to teaching God's Word, and

teaching it in a way that people understand, that it's meaty, and we're equipping them with answers to the

skeptical questions that cause people today to doubt God's Word.

A lot of the material we use in our churches these days is fluff and stuff, and a lot of what happens in churches is

entertainment.

A lot of churches are more centered around music being a performance from the front, and the watering down of

teaching of the Word, and much of the teaching from the Bible anyway is very shallow, and

that's why we're losing these young people.

That's why they don't have a Christian worldview.

We need to be teachers.

Twelve

30 -minute programs with a curriculum.

You can introduce that into your church.

Use it as a Sunday school lesson or whatever, or try to get the church three -year

Bible curriculum, revolutionizing

the Word like they've never had before.

Well, I want to thank you so much, Ken, for being on the program today, and I hope that you could come back when you could spend at least a full

hour with us, and I know that your website is.

Answersingenesis .org.

Well, thank you. Appreciate being on.

Thank you very much, Ken, and I want to just tell our listeners that emailed us questions, I've got a surprise

for you.

You're going to be receiving a free copy of Ken's book, so I know that I have your

city and state where you're located, but please email me back with your full mailing address so we can ship you out a

copy absolutely free, and don't go away because we're going to be right back with Ken's co

-author, Britt Beamer, right after these messages, so don't go away.

We'll be right back with Iron Sharpens Iron.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

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to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen, and we have our second guest for the day.

He is the co -author of the book that we were discussing with Ken Ham during our first half

hour, Ready to Return.

Our second guest is Britt Beamer, and he founded America's Research Group, a full -service

consumer behavior research and strategic marketing firm.

Recognized nationally as a premier marketing strategist, he has gained wide acclaim

for his work on how, when, and why consumers select their products and

services.

His client list represents America's top retailers, leading brands, and smaller

entrepreneurial companies.

His knowledge of consumer preferences increases monthly as ARG conducts

thousands of new interviews.

And we are honored and privileged to have you for the very first time on Iron Sharpens Iron, Britt Beamer.

Chris, how are you doing today?

We're doing great, and we just have to adjust your volume here because you're coming through a little different than Ken did in the

first half hour.

But first of all, tell us something briefly about how you came to know Jesus Christ as your.

Lord and Savior.

Well, as a child, it was interesting.

I went to a Bedford, Ohio woman

guiding me every sentence.

Great.

And as our

listeners

already know, if

you've been

listening.

From the beginning, we are discussing a book that Britt co -authored with Ken Ham, Ready to

Return, Bringing Back the Church's Lost Generation.

And I just want to let you know that our email address is

chrisarnson at gmail .com.

We do have a few people already waiting to have their questions read on air.

And I do want you to know that if you are, by God's providence, one

of those who has their questions read on air, you will receive a free copy of the

book, Ready to Return, Bringing Back the Church's Lost Generation.

So please send us your full mailing address.

And I do apologize to our listeners in Canada and overseas.

The free book offer is only eligible for those who live in the United

States.

Because of the shipping costs involved, we do have a sponsor of this broadcast that ships out all of our books.

And it seems that this free book giveaway has been almost a daily occurrence on Iron Sharpens Iron.

But we still want to hear from you if you're overseas in Canada, with your questions anyway.

We always love to hear from you with your questions.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And what ways do you think today's generation of young people, teenagers,

for instance, how are they different from those,.

Let's say,

in

the

1980s or

approximately

that

long

ago?

And we

do

have

another

listener.

This listener is from Nassau, New York, going by the alias, I'm assuming, Lam

Lam.

I wonder if Lam Lam is on the lam using an alias like that.

But Lam Lam asks, what would you suggest for churches

in bringing the awareness of evolution is absolutely against the

Bible?

How to help the congregation, kids as well as parents, to understand creation rather

than evolution, since this is taught widely in the public school system, even in some private

schools?

Yes, I was a Roman Catholic growing up and before my

born again experience by the mercy of Christ.

And I went to Catholic school for eight years.

This would have been in the late 60s and 70s.

And I was taught evolution as a fact in the parochial school where I went.

This is after Vatican II, obviously.

But if you could answer our listener,.

Lam

Lam's

question.

You

have

a

chapter

in your

book

that

has

an

intriguing

title,.

The Blind and the Bland, if you could comment on that.

My

priority is to

basically not to really believe

that we

don't like

this book.

Well, that's

what my whole point is.

And therefore, and they

are

the ones that I've...

Right.

They don't understand the context of what Christ and his disciples were speaking about.

And they also don't understand that Christ was really the second Adam.

And by the

way, let

me remind

a couple of our

listeners

who

already

emailed us

questions for.

Our guests today, who have won books, who have won the free book written

by Ken Ham and Britt Beamer.

I still need mailing addresses from a couple of you.

So please email me your mailing address as soon as you can.

And our email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at

gmail .com.

There are Christians today that basically

believe that all we need to do is love people and tell them

about Jesus and the rest of the things that separate the

denominations and associations and brotherhoods, however you'd like to describe

the different gatherings of Christians all across the world.

The other things just don't even matter.

Let's just lift up Jesus and love Jesus.

Is that a even biblical approach to how we're supposed.

To be proclaiming Christ in the gospel?

No, because we have all these illiterate

Christians.

You

have

a

chapter

in the

book,

Owning Up,

Embracing

a

Faith

of Your

Own.

Does.

That have something to do with the fact that there are many, there are millions

of nominal Christians around the world, people who think that they are Christian

and that they have no reason to fear the afterlife because they were born and

raised in a God -fearing home of some sort, or perhaps it was just a nominal Christian

family that celebrated Christmas and Easter and had some semblance of Christian teaching

in the home, and therefore they think they are.

Christians.

Is

that

something about

that?

Well,

partially, but three.

If you don't even have to

believe

in Christ

to go

to

heaven

again, it's just

phenomenal to

think

about, and

therefore,

why he died

for our sins.

Right.

Obviously, if people think that if you are a good person,.

You will go to heaven, they don't even understand the gospel and they don't even understand the nature of man,

because the Bible's clear that men are never going to be good enough to be

worthy of heaven, that it necessitates the sacrifice of Christ on

Calvary and his.

Shed blood covering them.

Philosophy.

Yeah, I

mean, it

is

really

frightening.

On top of that,.

Because these people obviously don't know the scriptures well enough to even know what it even

means to be a good person.

I mean, people have a different idea of what that means.

You could think you're a good person by giving loving approval

to homosexual marriage, for instance.

Many people think that's being a good person, because you're not being nasty and bigoted and

hateful if you embrace with open arms homosexuals without

telling them their need of repentance.

Exactly.

It's like when I was doing the survey, there was a lady that we interviewed, I didn't want

to forget it.

Well, she obviously doesn't walk the streets of Manhattan too often,.

Because she'd be pretty broke by the end of the day.

But what are the most surprising things that.

You have learned through your research, things that you weren't expecting?

Yeah, but there were people

out

there

believing,

they

were

actually...

Now

the

subtitle

of

the

book is,.

Bringing Back the Church's Lost Generation.

I don't know if you're a post -millennialist, but do you think that this is going to be possible?

I will say that, but Chris, I do believe anything is

possible beyond their ability.

Amen.

Amen.

And

obviously,

without

the

mercy of Christ and

the working

of

the

Holy

Spirit,.

No matter what we as humans build or do or say, the dead are going to

remain dead in their trespasses and sins, and we must pray that the Lord uses these things as instruments for His

glory, that He brings the lost unto Himself, and also helps further equip

those who are Christians.

To better defend and declare their faith.

That was very remarkable when he said this.

He said,.

We

have another listener, a Christian in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who

wants to know if my guest sees anything dangerous

about those who are old Earth creationists who deny the literal six -day

Genesis account of creation.

Do you have a problem with those who disagree with our first guest, Ken Ham, on the

literal six days?

I mean, I'm a young Earth.

Creationist.

I believe that God created the Earth.

That's my personal

view.

I think

we've had

this battle every day,

and that's my

point.

And I'd like you

to now just

unburden

your

heart.

And leave our listeners with what you most want etched in their hearts and minds before they leave.

The

broadcast

today.

You

also,

myself,

and

everyone

else.

Amen.

Well, I know

that.

Ken

Ham's

website

for.

Answers in Genesis is answersingenesis .org, answersingenesis .org.

Do you have any contact information that you would care to share with our listeners?

Well, my website is argconsumer .com.

That's

argconsumer

.com.

Whoever you are,

get a chance.

Well, I want

to thank you

for being on.

The program, and we look forward to having you back in the future, Britt.

God bless you, too.

And in our next hour, we are going to have Paul Taylor, and he's going to be discussing a book that has

one of the most unusual titles I've ever heard of, Where Birds Eat Horses, The

Language of Evolution.

That's Paul Taylor coming up on Iron Sharpens Iron right after these.

Messages, so don't go away.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you've just been tuning in, our guests for the first hour have been

Ken Ham and Britt Beamer.

And they were discussing a book that they co -authored together, Ready to Return.

And we just had our second guest on the line, and we got disconnected.

So I'm going to run another commercial.

And hopefully, we will get this resolved right after these messages.

So don't go away.

We'll be right back.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past

to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzin.

Our third guest for the day is Paul Taylor, and he is the author of a book that, as I said

earlier, has one of the most unusual titles I've ever heard in my life, Where

Birds Eat Horses, The Language of Evolution.

And Paul F. Taylor is an international speaker and writer on creation and apologetics.

He is the author of several books, including Don't Miss the Boat, The Six Days of

Genesis, and Itching Ears.

He and his wife Geraldine are the directors of the Mount St. Helens Creation Center in Washington State.

They have five children between them, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever.

To Iron Sharpens Iron, Paul Taylor.

Well, hi.

Thank you.

Excellent.

Well, tell us something about where.

You're from.

You're obviously not a native of Washington State, so tell us about your origins.

And how you came to faith in Jesus Christ.

Yes.

Well, I'm obviously English.

I came to

faith.

If you know anything about the Church of England, there are sort of many different types of churches in

the

Church of

England.

That

made

sense to

me because I wanted to believe.

Before

we

go on

to.

Have you describe the Mount St. Helens Creation Center, tell us something about the contrast from your

knowledge between the public school systems in

the U .K. and that which exists here in the United States.

And obviously, I know that I believe in the U .K. they use the word or the term public school for a different reason

than we would, but if you could explain what you've noticed.

I was describing what you know clearly in England, what we

call a public school over in England is different.

It's actually a very expensive school that you would call a public school.

A government school.

In England, we would call them comprehensive schools, so they're the government

funded.

It does mean

that

there is

nothing

together

and meeting

was for

prayer, and

so

there's.

Positives and negatives.

And now, I'd love to hear more about the organization that

you and your wife Geraldine operate, the Mount St. Helens Creation Center in Washington State.

It is my understanding that when Mount St. Helens erupted, there were a lot of

things discovered as a result of that eruption that clearly

proved things that creationists have been arguing all along,.

But if you could go into more detail about that.

Well, we have a small ministry here in Washington State, and we're situated on the main

tour, so we can easily be found if you turn off into

49 and drive towards Mount St. Helens.

We're on that road, and there's a large number of visitor centers on that road, but we're the only one offering

it.

And you're quite correct, there's a number of things that happened as a result of the volcano

erupting in 1980 that we would not be surprised at.

We should not be surprised out there, the sort of things that would happen

catastrophically, but the other visitor centers are taken by surprise by this, and frequently in their displays use words like

astonishing, surprising, because they're surprised that the landscape changed so rapidly.

Sedimentary layers, 25 feet of sedimentary layers could be laid down in just three hours,

not millions of years.

They're surprised that a canyon system, which is a 140th scale model, it's like a 140th scale model of the Grand

Canyon, could be carved out in just nine hours, when they again

expect that to take millions of years.

And by the way, if the Grand Canyon had been carved out at the same rate as that, the Grand Canyon could have been carved out in 15

days.

And they're surprised that in Spirit Lake, which is a lake just to the

northeast of the volcano, and badly affected by the volcano, and a lot of trees that

were deposited on the lake, eventually sort of turned 90 degrees and sank vertically

into layers of sediments at the bottom of the lake, in a similar manner to what

we see in polystrate fossil systems all around the world.

And they're surprised that that happened in just a few years, when they expect those again.

You know, and there's lots more.

The fact that life came back to the valley around the volcano very quickly, when scientists at the time

said it would take a thousand years before anything lived near the volcano.

Well, it didn't take a thousand years.

And I can show you areas just below the volcano today, where you've got thick woodland, just

35 years since the volcano.

Erupted.

Okay, well, let's get into the title and theme of your book, Where Birds

Eat Horses, The Language of Evolution.

Even the illustration of the horse on the cover of this book is laughing.

If you could explain the title of the book.

Yes, well, I remember a wildlife

documentary series that was jointly financed by the,

and this was called Walking with Prehistoric Beasts.

There was another well -known series called Walking with Dinosaurs.

And this was meant to, Walking with Prehistoric Beasts was covering the supposed evolutionary era

from the death of the dinosaurs that they reckon was 65 million years ago.

And there's one scene in this, the first episode of this series, which last,

and it's all done with animation, computer animation, but it's then narrated as if it was a wildlife

documentary.

So you see this large extinct bird called a Gastornis.

And you see six little animals called Propaleotheria, which are supposedly

ancestors of the horse in the chain of horse evolution.

Now as creationists, we don't think they were, but be that as it may, this is what the evolutionists think.

And these little horses were sort of pottering around in the woods and eating grapes that had landed on the

ground.

And they, because they had, they'd fermented a little bit, so they were a little bit alcoholic,

and their reaction time was not very good.

And then eventually this large bird came along and caught one of the horses and killed it

and ate it.

And you see this in fairly graphic detail, despite the fact it's an animation.

And I'm doing it quickly, 20 minutes to unfold.

And you think to yourself, well, why on earth did they make this sequence of 20 minutes?

And you see the sequence ends with the narrator saying, this is a world where birds eat horses.

And the sequence is based on a real scientific find, which is that at the Messel pit in

Germany, they found one fossil Gastoniliotheria and

one fossil bunch of grapes.

But out of that one find, they have then woven this entire story,

science articles on the web and in magazines.

And when you watch television, what you're getting

is a fictionalized account, which may be based

on a little bit of real science, but there is this enormous work of imagination woven around it.

And the point of my book then is to show

evolution does not actually consist in real scientific evidence, but in their clever and

tagline from the end of that scene, where birds eat horses, this is a world where birds eat horses would be a great

title.

I know it therefore needs explaining, but I've got that mentioned on the.

Back of the book.

Yeah, basically that same kind of tactic is used, is it not, when

you go to the Museum of Natural History or some of these other secular

museums, where you will see, for instance, the heads

of apes and ape -like humans, and then

humans, all in a succession where they have been modeled out of clay from what

apparently is skulls, are skulls underneath the clay.

But a lot of these, or most if not all of these, are constructed out of just bone fragments, and then the

imagination of an artist has accomplished what we see before us,

and we're being misled to think that these are actually the way that the

skulls were formed.

Am I off -base on.

That, or am I correct?

Absolutely correct, and this appearance, the way these things are put together, it's very important.

And of course there will be some science there, because there will probably be a genuine skull that they've found.

Another example has come out since I've published this book, actually, just in the last couple of weeks, there's been a lot of news items

about this sort of human beings having been found, rather a lot of

them, in South Africa.

And they've found actual skulls, but then if you look in the various

articles that report this, you'll see an ape man looking

at, and a lot of people don't realize what's special about these pictures

of ape men.

You see a picture of an ape man, and of course it's basically the face of an ape, but look at the eyes.

The eyes have

got white,

and what he

was doing by giving the creature human eyes was actually showing the direction that it

was headed in.

Now, but this is very disingenuous, because for two reasons.

One, evolution is not supposed to head anywhere anyway, it's supposed to be blind random chance, so the idea that there was an

evolutionary goal or destination for these supposed ape men is nonsense.

And secondly, when you look at the skull, of course, you realize that there are no eyes in

the completely made up, when they paint these eyes in to the

picture of the ape man looking at you from the page of the article, this is a form of dishonesty.

And without realizing it, people are taken in by that and saying, well this is the discovery they've made, but it's not the discovery they've made at

all.

It's their interpretation, and they're weaving a story around this which is not based on actual

scientific facts.

Now, this book, Where Birds Eat Horses, The Language of Evolution, what age groups

have.

You intended this book for, primarily?

Well, in common with all my books, I write for, well I write generally speaking for adults,

but I write things supposedly that are going to be easy to read, so it will always have a

reading age of about 12 or 13, so anyone from about that age upwards should be able to read

this.

And I do expect as well, I mean I've talked about this with homeschool groups and Christian school groups, and

there's been a lot of interest from such groups about the book, and with the idea that it would work for

teenagers, high school age people, but it will work as well for adults.

And it really has a lot of the sort of language in it is based on an idea that a friend of

mine, fellow creation speaker Mike Riddle, had some years ago where he talked about what

he called fuzzy words and magic words, and I've used these in the book

with his permission.

Fuzzy words are when the evolutionists deliberately try and fudge the

issue, you know, so they'll say this probably happened, or this may have happened, and they won't commit themselves, but they

deliberately use vague language in order to insinuate ideas to us.

And magic words, they're when you think they describe things that we know are totally impossible, but

they suppose, they try and persuade us that they would be possible if you allow a few million years for them to happen, because

millions of years of the magic words, something that's impossible if you

have millions of years, but as

we know, the Bible.

Doesn't give us millions of years anyway.

You know, the thing that, I've said this before on

my program, but one of the things that really aggravates me and

frustrates me is that when conservatives and those who claim to be

creationists and even claim to be Christian, when they have a public forum like on

television during a debate and the question of evolution comes up by the

liberal political candidate or liberal scientist or whoever the person may be, maybe just

the liberal talk show host, with the intention of making the creationist look foolish,

they will ask that person, do you believe in evolution?

And the thing that amazes me is that I rarely ever, in fact, I don't know if I've ever heard a

conservative respond, do you know what the full title

of Darwin's book, The Origin of the Species was?

And of course, the full title is On the Origin of Species by Means

of Natural Selection or the Preservation of Favored Races

in the Struggle for Survival.

And Darwin was a racist who taught that

those belonging to the non -white races, such as the blacks

and the aborigines and so on, they were, this is being taught by Darwin and other

evolutionists, especially of that era, that they were closer on the evolutionary chart to the apes,

that they were not fully evolved humans.

And it's amazing how, I mean, I understand why a liberal wouldn't want to bring that up if they even

know that, but why on earth aren't the conservatives shouting that from the rooftops?

Well, it's

because, you

know, I

sometimes

come back with a little bit of

longing for the days of the old, honest, liberal theologian.

In many ways, I preferred those.

You know, there was a theologian at Oxford University called James Barr who used to say that

it was quite obvious in his mind that whoever had written the book of Genesis believed that the world had been made in six literal

days, believed that there was a worldwide flood, and believed that you couldn't work out the chronology of the earth by adding up the

dates in the Bible, but then he went on to say, but I don't believe that because, you know, we've got modern science.

Now, in many ways, I preferred him to the modern -day supposedly conservative evangelicals

in so many supposedly conservative evangelical colleges who say, I believe the book of Genesis to be

literally true, but by the way, it doesn't mean what you think it does.

There was a literal person called Adam, and you can, you know, it was really to do with an ancient Near East philosophy,

Babylonian philosophy, which is a polemic against the theological

contortionism, and in many ways, I prefer the

conservative evangelical theologians today.

We're going to be going to a break right now.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for our guest, Paul Taylor, about his book, Where

Birds Eat Horses, The Language of Evolution, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and I've got a surprise for you.

We also have some copies of this book to give away for those of you who email us questions that are

good enough to be read on air.

Obviously, they have to be involving the subject that we're discussing on the program today in some fashion,

so send in your email address to chrisarnson at gmail .com, that's c -h -r -i -s

-a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com, and provide us with a question, and

if you're among those whom we get to before the show runs out of time,

whose questions were good enough to be read on air, you'll be receiving a free copy of the book, so I

hope that you don't go away.

We'll be right back.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Sarnes, and if you just tuned us in, our guest for the last half hour has been Paul Taylor, and we're

discussing his book, Where Birds Eat Horses, the Language of Evolution.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question regarding Paul's book, our email address is chrisarnsen

at gmail .com.

That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at

gmail .com.

We do have a listener in Merrick, Long Island, New York, Stephen, who

wants to know, has Paul ever heard of a movie that was aired

on a very well -known television channel, most known for

its serious documentaries about nature, that was actually about

humanoids found in the jungles of South America, and

complete with photographic evidence of the existence of these beings.

And the program went on for at least an hour that made

you think that this was actual footage from explorers in the jungle, where you saw

these humanoids, these half -men, half -ape, running around in the jungle, threatening the

lives of the explorers.

And then the only way that you could detect that this was completely fictitious is if you

paused the film at the very end and looked at the credits to see that these were

manufactured through the wonders of special effects, that these were not

truly humanoid.

Have you ever heard of.

That?

I have heard of it.

I'm not familiar with it.

I haven't seen it.

And it's interesting, you know, one of the sections in my book, I mention a

criticism of the walking with

mother, nor the calf,

nor the Andrew

Sarkis.

So, you know, this has really happened.

But we

do have Georgia in

Perry County, Pennsylvania, who wants to know,.

Is it ever okay for Christian parents to take their children to

museums and other types of places, like even amusement

parks that have electronic dinosaurs, knowing that those who deny creation in the Bible

are running them, as long as the Christian parent instructs the child properly

during and afterward?

Yeah, not only is it okay to do that, I would say it's a pretty...

We have another listener from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, CJ, who wants to

know, why is it that it is so hard for evolutionists to

believe that humans and dinosaurs roamed the earth simultaneously?

We have lizards and reptiles today, that even those

that are atheists and scientists admit can be traced back to the days of the

dinosaurs.

So why, if they exist today, such as alligators and turtles, why is it so hard to believe that

dinosaurs existed with men?

Yes, and

if

you

don't

have

a...

Yeah, but it doesn't even make sense, the ferociousness with which some in

academia and in the scientific realm will fight tooth and nail against any notion that

dinosaurs and humans lived at the same time.

It doesn't even make sense that they would hold to that opinion with such

certainty and with such bigotry, for lack of a better term.

It doesn't even.

Make any sense to me.

Yeah, there was...

They get

very, very angry about things like that.

Every time

you

show it in feathers,

because...

Now, can you believe that he was a real

viewer of the Tyra within

feathers?

I didn't know that.

There's no reason for saying that.

No feathers have been discovered on any of the fossils, but it's purely because it's

part of their worldview and they...

Well, I had no knowledge of the.

Feathered Tyrannosaurus rex.

That's interesting.

And the thing that makes it more perplexing is that scientists admit when new

species, or should I say, species that were believed to be extinct are discovered

alive.

So why couldn't the dinosaurs have lived with us?

It doesn't make any sense at all.

We have Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania that writes, do

you know of any creationists who are scientists that are

surviving and thriving in the secular realm of academia and

science?

I know quite a few.

They're Andy

McIntyre

panels.

I'm

likening

it.

Tell me something about one of the chapters in your book that definitely has an interesting, captivating

title, Hamlet and Humpty Dumpty.

Well, I'm trying to show the use of words because, as I've said, the support for evolutionary

use of words.

And of course, I started that chapter by quote conversation between

the one bit where

it's feigning madness to

understand him.

And there's quite a lengthy section I quote, but if I can just mention one little bit that I do in my talk sometimes.

There's one bit where Polonius says, what do you read, my lord?

And Hamlet says, words, words, words.

What are you saying there?

Because we're using languages.

What's the sense he interprets what he says and

says between who, using a more modern meaning of the phrase, what is the matter?

So it's an example of equivocation where one phrase is meant to mean one thing and actually means another.

And I show how evolutionists do that with a very simple juxtaposition of two photographs, two

pictures rather, two diagrams of supposed evolution.

One shows finches, like Darwin's finches, where one finch changes into another finch,

you know, by its beat growing shorter.

And that's in a sense, in the broadest use of the word, an example of evolution, if the word evolution simply means

change because the finches are changing.

But they start off as finches and they change into finches.

It's not evolution in the biological sense.

And put with that a picture of the traditional view of

human beings.

And that's a different use of the word evolution.

But evolutionists deliberately put those two uses of the word evolution together and pretend they're the same

when they're not.

They're simply a change within a kind and shouldn't really be called

evolution at all.

It should be called speciation.

Whereas the other, and of course, speciation actually happens all the time.

Species of dogs, you know, wolves can eventually be bred until they turn into Yorkshire terriers.

But, you know, at no point can you breed a wolf so that it turns into a tiger, you know.

So it's a deliberate equivocation

over the term evolution.

And this is something that evolutionists use all the time.

And that's why it seems sensible to end with Humpty Dumpty's words in Alice Through the Looking Glass when

Humpty Dumpty says, there's glory for you when he's given his argument about why

unbirthdays are better than birthdays.

He says, there's glory for you.

I don't know what you mean by glory, Alice said.

And Humpty Dumpty smiled and said, of course you don't, I tell you.

I meant there's a nice knockdown argument for you.

Alice objected, but glory doesn't mean a nice knockdown argument.

When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to mean, neither

more nor less.

Well, of course, that's not true.

And of course, that's what Lewis Carroll is pointing out in that book.

You can't use a word to mean just what you want it to mean.

Words have a meaning.

And unfortunately, these days, you get people deliberately changing the meaning of words in order to

further an agenda.

And that's what the evolutionist theory, they're using equivocation and

changing the meanings of words.

We have.

Rob in New York, New York, who asks, if you believe that

all of the human race came from Adam and Eve, obviously you believe in some form

of evolution, since we have different races that involve not only different skin

pigmentation, but skull structures, etc.

And do you believe that the original parents, Adam

and Eve, were far different in appearance than what the average.

Human

today

looks

like?

No, I don't

believe

that

Adam and

Eve would

have all the

genetic

information for the human race was there in

Adam and Eve.

But if you take

their DNA in common,

but even if it were, that would be new

genetic information that would have to be spontaneously made by random

like anyone to human, but human

beings just changing slightly in appearance and in the shades of melanin that they would have.

That is not evolution.

That's just very, very minor changes from gene from genetic information that's already there.

What phrase would you use then for not only the development of

different human races, but for instance, obviously, there are many different kinds of cats.

There are house cats, and there are lions and tigers that had a

common ancestor, the same thing with wolves and foxes and hyenas and, and your common

house dog, etc.

What would you call that change within?

I'd make a distinction between the changes being described there in humans and in those

sort of

kinds of

animals of the

total amount of

genetic makeup of human completely insignificant.

And there aren't actually there for different races.

There's only one race in the world, which is the human race, the humans

race.

But in the case of

genetic information, the changes are a bit more radical.

So, but you would never use the word then evolution, even for the changes that

took place within species?

No, it's what many creationists used to refer to as micro evolution.

They used to say, well, there's micro evolution, where you don't, where you get genetic changes and where

you're supposedly getting changes from one kind to another.

And if they micro evolution exists, macro evolution doesn't.

But you see, I think it's probably best for not to use that term.

But many of us would say not to use it simply because it's implying that it's just a miniature

version of the macro evolution.

And it isn't.

It's a might what some people

might refer to as micro observe a observed science,

whereas macro evolution is not only not observed, but is convinced you

can't create the new information required best not

to use.

It is interesting that those who are evolutionists have

taken upon their cause.

They defend it with a religious fervor.

They claim to be not importing religion into their

so -called scientific views.

But it seems to me that they are really imitating very much what the Roman

Catholic Church of centuries ago did when someone, a scientist, discovered

something that was in contradiction to a Roman Catholic tradition, not even necessarily in

the scripture.

The Roman Catholic Church silenced that person through various means of punishment or

silencing them.

Isn't it ironic that these so -called scientists who claim that we are the

ones that are importing our own personal religious views into the scientific arena where

it has no place, aren't they acting very much like religious zealots,

the liberals and the.

Evolutionists?

Absolutely

right.

Yeah, there's

often a good

price to pay

in

academic circles.

Wow.

Well, I'd like you in the next four minutes or so to really unburden your heart

with what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners before they leave the.

Program today.

Well, what we're trying to

do here, we're not the only ministry doing that.

Obviously, there are many larger ministers in Genesis and the

Institute for Creation Research and

others that do that.

But our show, Non -Christa

Bible, has a claim to make on their lives and challenge them with the gospel of Jesus Christ, which appears

throughout the words of the Bible, because the gospel itself, I believe, is there right from the very

beginning of Genesis.

So that's really our purpose.

You can find out more about what we do here at the Center by coming to visit us.

If you're in Washington State, as I said, we're very close to Interstate 5 and we're on the main tourist

road to Mt. St. Helens.

Or you can visit our website, which is mshcreationcenter .org.

The MSH bit stands for Mt. St. Helens.

So it's mshcreationcenter .org.

You can find out about the things we do and the program.

That's

really what we do and I like to travel around and speak.

Do you think that it is wise for Christian schools who

have in their science classes an explanation of the evolutionary

theory or theories to be taught side by side with

creation, but with a distinction being made that one is from the Word of

God and the other is from the mind of men, just so that the students

are more fully equipped to dialogue with those who are opposing their

creationist views?

It's not so much side by side.

You know, the true position is the one in the Bible and so it's good to see children being taught the biblical

approach to science and to understand that modern science would not have been possible without the work of

people who believe that the Bible was true.

You know, all the discoveries of the modern scientific era were made by people who believed that the Bible was true, that Genesis was

true.

But nevertheless, they do need to be familiar with the theory of evolution and

why the theory of evolution is wrong.

But you know, it's not really correct for no other

theory.

This theory is out there believed by

a lot of people.

Finally, do you think it's ironic and very disturbing, obviously, that there

are Christians who are coming out as theistic evolutionists in a day and age when even

secular scientists.

Are beginning to doubt the theory?

I know of, and I better not

mention his name, but I mean, this is not unknown where the science departments are teaching the truth of the Bible.

Near East, it's that way.

I've heard that.

We're out of time.

I'm sorry.

And I just thank you so much for being on the program today.

And I want everybody to always remember that Jesus Christ is a far greater savior than you are a sinner.

Please tune in tomorrow to Iron Sharpens Iron and email your questions.

We look forward to reading them on the air.

God bless.