WWUTT 1975 Q&A The Song Surrounded, Couples Attending Different Churches, Women Leading Worship, Pronoun Wars, Aliens

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Why is a song like This is How I Fight My Battles not good for corporate worship? If a husband is a cessationist and a wife is a

00:08

Pentecostal, can they attend different churches and can a woman lead worship? The answers to these questions and others when we understand the text.

00:24

This is when we understand the text, a daily Bible study in the word of Christ, that it may dwell in you richly, and we may teach one another in all wisdom.

00:34

Tell all your friends about our ministry at www .wutt .com. Here once again is

00:39

Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. How goes it? It goes well. Another Friday episode, responding to questions from listeners.

00:48

And you can send those questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com. So in the last several

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Friday episodes, I mean this probably goes back a few months even, but I've been reading portions of Psalm 68, we're in the last section of Psalm 68 now.

01:03

Right. Sing to God, O kingdoms of the earth. Sing praises to the

01:09

Lord, say La. To him who rides upon the highest heavens, which are from ancient times, behold, he gives forth his voice, a voice that is strong.

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Ascribe strength to God. His majesty is over Israel, and his strength is in the skies.

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O God, you are awesome from your sanctuary. The God of Israel himself gives strength and might to the people.

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Blessed be God. Amen. And with this charge to sing to God, O kingdoms of the earth, that actually leads me to our first question here.

01:45

Okay. So this was on Twitter about a month ago or so. I can't remember how long ago this was, but I made fun of the song,

01:53

This is How I Fight My Battles. Uh -oh. You made fun of it? How many words is that?

01:58

This is how I fight my battles. That's half the number of words in the song. That one.

02:04

Okay. Sure. Says that over and over and over and over again. And over and over and over. And then it turns around and says,

02:11

I feel like, I may feel like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by you. That's the next half of the song.

02:16

And then you repeat that over and over and over and over again. Okay. That's it. That's all the lyrics in the song.

02:22

Well, you won't forget it. Yeah. Now, there was something that pushed back on me when I was making fun of that being all the lyrics in the song.

02:28

And they said, no, no, no, no, no. Look at this. And showed a lyrics page where there were additional lyrics.

02:34

Those were added later. Oh, okay. You can find a video between the original songwriter and the pastor, who

02:41

I believe is actually her husband, if memory serves. But anyway. Okay. The writer of that song and the pastor of the church where it first made its debut.

02:49

And they say in that interview that the song was only like 15 words long. So any phrases that you've heard in addition to that were added later on.

03:00

Gotcha. That was not the original song. It really was that repetitive over and over again. And the most popular version of the song, which is put out by Michael W.

03:08

Smith, is just that. It's just those 15 words repeated again and again and again.

03:14

So Alan from Texas emailed and he said, hey, I have a question about songs like how

03:20

I fight my battles. It's actually called Surrounded, technically. That's the name of the song. But anyway.

03:26

I'm very conflicted because I understand that it's not scriptural. The song itself is not scriptural.

03:32

But I also see how it's not wrong in what it says. I understand that it's very emotional.

03:39

But are emotions wrong to use? I am absolutely against what Bethel, Elevation, et cetera stand for.

03:46

I'd love to be able to get an answer because I'm conflicted and I do appreciate that music when

03:51

I'm listening to it on my own. But I don't think they're appropriate for corporate worship. So like the whole church singing them together.

03:58

Yeah. Okay. Alan goes on to say, do you think that you can help me defend against that type of music?

04:04

Another issue related to that is all the Hillsong music. Their preaching from the pulpit is trash, but their songs can be theologically accurate.

04:13

Last question. On what basis do we think it's not okay for corporate worship? When someone asks me that,

04:20

I would say pretty much what you said about Bethel and how they suck people into their terrible theology and teaching.

04:29

Well, I think, Alan, that you really kind of answered your own question. You appreciate that music, listening to it on your own, but you don't think that it's appropriate for corporate worship.

04:40

I mean, I can think of all kinds of songs I like, I would never sing in church. Right. Okay.

04:47

But maybe he's asking like the why part of it. Like why is it that I feel this way? I can't quite put my finger on it kind of thing.

04:54

Why is it bad? I think the most basic question to ask is what is this song saying?

05:01

What is being communicated? And so we're talking about why it's bad for corporate worship. We're not talking about why it's bad for you to listen to it in your car.

05:09

Because again, consider the lyrics. This is how I fight my battles. Now the irony about that is the singer never tells you how she fights her battles.

05:21

Okay. Now again, there's different versions of the song where they've added lyrics. I did see one, I can't even remember what the bridge was, but she sings the bridge and then she says, and this is how

05:31

I fight my battles. So it's like they added a bridge to explain this is what I mean by this is how

05:38

I fight my battles. But in the song, it doesn't ever tell you that. You're just singing over and over again. This is how I fight my battles.

05:44

But the singer never tells you how she fights her battles. I wonder if she got tired of it and had to add some more so she could do it more often.

05:56

Are you okay over there? I'm just joking. That was funny.

06:01

Oh, it was funny because we're all tired of it. So yeah, maybe she got tired of singing it.

06:08

Nope. I'm just saying. Nobody has to sing that song more than she does. Right? Now, okay, so I watched the video.

06:16

Like I said, I watched the interview between her and her pastor and she talks about how that song was written just in a jam session with the band.

06:26

And then as the pastor was preaching a sermon, he's wrapping it up saying, you know,

06:31

I'm just going to have the band come up here and play something, whatever's on their heart or whatever. And they started messaging each other on their phones or on their iPads, whatever they were using, and saying, how about Surrounded?

06:43

Want to give it a shot this time? So they had already played it in rehearsal. And now they were rolling it out here before the congregation, but it was just the same words sung over and over and over again.

06:54

So maybe it was for soundcheck. It was just like a soundcheck song, right? I mean, you never know how many of those repetitive songs.

07:05

Hmm. Just came out of that. Just came out of a soundcheck jam. I don't know. But anyway.

07:11

You never know. But that statement, again, coming back to that statement, how I fight my battles is never explained.

07:17

And then the next statement, it may feel like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by you.

07:23

I mean, those things are both true. It's really not saying anything. So you're kind of filling in the blanks.

07:29

Yeah. It's like, I'm going to put something vague out there, and you're going to think it's true.

07:34

I mean, it's... It's going to be true for you, because it's your head filling in the blanks. And it's witty.

07:40

It's witty to say, it might feel like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by you. That sounds like one of those framed pictures you find at Hobby Lobby or something.

07:52

It sounds like that. I get the appeal. I understand. I understand. It just doesn't work for corporate worship.

07:59

Haven't you said before that if it could be about a boyfriend or girlfriend or significant other or whatever?

08:05

That it's not okay. Yeah. That goes back to, what is this song actually communicating?

08:11

Right, right. Who is getting the praise in this song? Because references to my and I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by you, there's more reference to the self in that song.

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The only reference to God is you, the word you at the end of that second phrase.

08:31

But even then, God's name isn't said. Nothing about his attributes, nothing about his gloriousness, nothing salvific being explained.

08:41

No real... It's no theology. There's... Yeah. You're not really worshiping at that point. Yeah, right.

08:47

Right. It's just enjoying the song. You're just enjoying the song. Okay. And like Alan said, he can fill in the blanks with that song.

08:55

It can be meaningful to him. Good to worship to in your car. Fine, I'll give you that.

09:01

But for corporate worship, yeah. What is this communicating? Would someone who is an unbeliever understand this song is giving glory to God?

09:13

No. And I'm even basing that question off of 1 Corinthians 14, 23 to 24, where the apostle

09:21

Paul is talking about, he's telling the church not to be speaking in tongues in the corporate gathering because nobody understands what you're saying.

09:30

If an unbeliever comes in and hears you doing that, he's gonna think you're out of your mind. But if you are saying things that are articulated and understood, well, then he's gonna be convicted by the word that you are saying.

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And so, we have to think about that even with the songs that we sing. There's a message being communicated in the song, just like you hope, there's a message being communicated in the sermon as well.

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And though the songs we sing may not be explicitly scripture, a lot of them will be, but not explicitly, they still need to be based in scripture.

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They need to be aligned with the Bible. You don't want to be saying things in your songs that are contrary to what we're gonna be reading in God's word.

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And there's a lot of them that are popular. Yeah. Yeah. So, the song is very self -centered. Four of those words are

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I or my. Only one word seems to indicate this song is directed to God, but even then his name isn't used.

10:24

So, what's the emphasis here? It really seems to be on the self and not on Christ. Yeah. Now, it's not entirely wrong to have something of a self -centered song.

10:37

I want to be careful with the way that I say that. Okay. Okay. Okay. But just think of like the hymn, Be Still My Soul. Oh, okay.

10:43

Be still my soul, the Lord is on your side. Now, that comes from the Psalms, because David prayed, be still my soul.

10:50

Right. So, there can be a way that that song is self -inflective, but still pointing to God, still giving glory to God.

11:01

The Lord is on your side. The Lord is on your side. Yeah. Right. There's still being more said in those two lines right there than in the two lines of Surrounded.

11:11

That is true. Now, I don't openly talk about my music choices, because music is subjective.

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It's what I like. You know, I've got music that I like, and I'm not dishonoring God with what

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I listen to. But there are others that would probably frown upon certain things that I listen to, so I don't really talk about my casual music choices.

11:33

It's nobody's business. I like it. You don't have to like it. And it's one thing that people are passionate about, too.

11:41

Yeah. Oh, yeah. You really like what you really like, and you really don't what you really don't.

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And when somebody tells me, hey, listen to this song, oh, man, I always dread that invitation. So, I'm like, what if I hate this song?

11:53

You're going to be supremely offended, which I saw in the responses to my criticism of Surrounded.

12:00

Yeah. There were people that really didn't like that. Now, as we've been talking about this song, maybe you have no idea what song we're talking about.

12:08

And that's just fine. Okay. I was like, you're not going to play it, are you? Well, I can't.

12:15

We would get a copyright strike if I did. True, true. But I did do a video on this. Oh. So, let me play the video, and then we'll go to our next question.

12:23

All right. It's going to be okay, babe. It's going to be okay.

12:32

Good? All right.

12:38

How's that? Yeah, how? Okay, that's enough.

12:49

Please stop. This song doesn't say anything, and there's eight minutes of this? Why is the consumer -driven church so taken in by commercially sold ambiguous praise and worship choruses that can mean whatever you want them to mean?

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All right. So, I probably answered my own question there. This is how I fight my battles, with God's Word.

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Ephesians 6, starting in verse 11 says, Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.

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For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the spiritual forces of evil. The scripture goes on to describe the belt of truth, the breastplate of righteousness, the shoes of readiness given by the gospel of peace.

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Take up the shield of faith, to extinguish the flaming darts of the evil one, and put on the helmet of salvation.

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But in this ensemble there's only one weapon, the sword of the Spirit, which is the

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Word of God. Hebrews 4 .12 says, For the Word of God is living and active, sharper than any two -edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

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We read in 2 Corinthians 10, For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but have divine power to destroy strongholds.

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We destroy arguments, and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, when we understand the text.

14:05

It kind of reminds me of the approach of the prophets, you know, nowadays, where it's like, I'm going to say something vague, and it's going to pertain to you.

14:14

Yeah, you're talking the false prophets. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the false prophets. Yeah, what did we call that?

14:19

It was Costi Hinn and I were referring to that as shotgun prophecy. Yeah, exactly.

14:25

You're just going to shoot at something. Yeah, and it's going to make sense to somebody. Yeah, it's a scatter shot.

14:30

It's going to hit a couple of things, and oh, see, there we go. And it means something totally different, you know, if they ever got together.

14:37

Yeah, it is kind of abstract when you think about it. Those kinds of worship songs that are written in that way aren't focusing on anything directly, but then your mind fills in the blanks, and I've referred to this as the

14:52

Mad Lib theology. Okay, yeah. Is it Mad Lib or Mad Gab? Yeah. What's the one where you're filling in the blanks, like write a noun here, write a verb here?

15:01

Mad Lib. That is the Mad Libs. Okay, Mad Gab was a game. Okay. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, so you have that word puzzle thing where write a noun here, write a verb here, give a color here, and then you go back and you read it, and ha, ha, ha, that's funny because you called me a blue banana, you know.

15:20

But the thing with those songs and some of this theology that surrounds it kind of turns out the same way.

15:27

Yeah. You might think that you're hearing something more profound than you're really hearing. Right. And it's because in your mind you're filling in those theological blanks.

15:36

Yeah. With your better theology against their bad theology. Right. Yeah. But as long as they make it vague enough, it applies.

15:43

Yeah, right. You still need to be discerning enough to recognize what songs are okay and what are not okay.

15:51

Speaking of music, we've got another question about music here. This one comes from Becky. Me? Nope. I like your name.

15:58

B -E -C -K -Y. Awesome. Becky spells hers B -E -K -I. Yep. Yeah, because we've talked about that.

16:06

We have. The names that will come in. You got it right. Yeah. Anyway, Becky says,

16:12

Hi, y 'all. My husband is a pastor of a small reforming church. For years, the music has been led by one of the other elders and his wife, or if he is not able to lead due to other duties, his wife will simply say, turn to hymn number and start the hymn with the pianist.

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Recently, there have been questions as to if the wife is leading worship by saying the hymn number.

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The piano and leader are off to one side of the congregation, not in front. What are your thoughts?

16:41

Looking forward to meeting you at G3. Yay. Yeah, G3 conference just a little more than a month away now.

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Yep. It's coming up fast. We're looking at that in Atlanta in about four or five weeks.

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Five weeks, I think, is how long we've got here. Yeah. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, it is. Yeah, five weeks. You can find out more details by going to g3min .org.

17:06

All right, so a woman leading worship, is that okay? What have we done in the past, babe?

17:16

For the most part, it's been men. Yeah, usually. Okay, going back to our church in Kansas.

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Yeah. We had a husband and wife duo who were leading, and sometimes he just accompanied and she sang.

17:28

Right. If you've ever seen the Gettys in concert, that's the way that goes sometimes, too.

17:33

Keith and Kristen Getty, he'll play piano and she does most of the singing. But you're talking in concert there, not in worship.

17:41

Yeah, it's been worship, too. Even at ShepCon. Okay. So Shepherds Conference, which is all men.

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Right. Yeah, there's Keith Getty playing the piano and Kristen is leading the singing. Okay. So is that acceptable?

17:53

Now that I've framed it in the context of John MacArthur's church, there's a lot of people going, yeah, that's okay.

17:58

Of course. It happened at John MacArthur's church, so that's all right. I mean, you really just need to discuss this as a church.

18:05

Yeah. You need to decide what your convictions are regarding this. And it is good to discuss it because you're asking the question.

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Since you're asking the question, it's obviously something that's on your heart. Yeah. It's something that you're thinking about.

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Are we doing this in the right way? Are we honoring the Lord? Are we following what's in Scripture? Which is great.

18:22

Yeah. That's a great approach to everything. This is one of those things that's not plainly articulated in Scripture.

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Now, some will say that a woman should not have an upfront presence like that because of the prohibition that's put on women in authority in 1

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Timothy 2, beginning in verse 11. A woman must learn quietly in all submission, but I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

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For it was Adam who was formed and then Eve, and it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman was deceived and fell into trespass.

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Now, of course, this passage in context is directly referring to women cannot have a position of eldership or cannot have a teaching, can't even function in that position as a teacher over men.

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Right. When you go from here into Chapter 3, you've got the qualifications for overseers and deacons.

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So what you have to decide as a church is if that prohibition would also apply to a woman.

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Do you think, sorry, well, apply to a woman leading worship. There you go. Yeah. Do you think that her standing up there and leading the songs is the same as a pastor standing in the pulpit and preaching the sermon from God's word?

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It's really what you have to decide. I'm not telling you one way or the other. Right. I think different churches are going to have different convictions about that.

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Right. And it also depends on where you're at in your culture, like cultural things.

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I don't know. Cultural things like in your church? No, like where you're from, maybe some things are more acceptable.

20:07

Like somebody might be okay with a woman leading worship. In one state but not another.

20:13

Well, even around the world, I'm thinking. Okay. Oh, yeah, like culturally, how does this culture consider men and women?

20:20

Right. Right. That's a good point, especially when you're talking about something that is as tertiary a matter as this.

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Right. There's no point in stirring the bucket. Right. But at the same time, stirring the bucket.

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Stirring the pot? Stirring the pot. There it is. There you go. I don't think it matters. It's a bucket. It doesn't matter what container it's in.

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It's a vessel. Anyway, nonetheless, don't let the culture dictate on this, but understand what

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God's word says. Very true. So that's still primary. We're following what the Bible says on this.

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Don't let the culture dictate it, because in some cultures it's going to be acceptable for a woman to stand up and lead the teaching and not a man.

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And then there are some cultures where women aren't to speak at all. They're just supposed to sit there and be quiet.

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And some have interpreted this passage that way. Yes. It's just talking about her function in a pastoral role, that she can't be filling that role.

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It's not saying that women can't be talking in church at all, although some people do go that far.

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They do. And say women shouldn't be talking. Anyway, all of that aside, so you just have to think of it in terms of what your church is convicted with regarding these things.

21:35

Yes. I don't personally see it as the same. A woman standing up and saying, turn in this hymn number.

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The pianist is playing the music, and she's helping to lead the congregation to be in unison in singing.

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I don't see how she's fulfilling the same function as a pastor. Yes. What if they share a

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Bible verse or something while people are flipping pages? Yes. You've got to talk about that, too.

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You've got to discuss that. Does she now have teaching authority? What she's not really teaching, is she?

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She's just reciting a Bible verse. Right. Or, because she's in that position and we're learning from what is being said, is she now assuming teaching authority?

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You just have to talk through it. Lots of discussion. As a church, now are we okay with a woman standing up there and leading worship?

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But what do we do if she just in a moment decides, I want to quote a scripture? Do we stand up and go, no, no, no, you can't do that.

22:33

Awkward. That's why you've got to talk through these things. You have to come to an understanding. Like you said, at our church, whether it was the one that I pastored in Kansas or now here in Texas, there have been largely men that have led the worship.

22:47

Right. We had a husband and wife team at our church in Kansas. I'm pretty sure they still have that at that church, even in our absence.

22:56

At Providence Baptist Church. I don't want to say that about them if it's not true, but I think they still do. I think they still have a husband and wife team there.

23:04

Here, Andrew is our worship pastor, and so he leads everything.

23:09

Choosing the music, selecting the band, things like that. But he will often have one of the gals in the band leading a song.

23:16

Yeah. It's her voice, and Andrew might even be singing harmony behind her or something like that.

23:22

That's perfectly acceptable. We don't have any problems with that. Yeah. Oh, it's wonderful. The music at our church is fantastic.

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Love it. So, yeah, as a church, you just need to discuss those things and come to a decision on it.

23:34

Becky, I think that your church is going to give you better insight into the answer to this question than I can.

23:40

Very true. But at least I think we've given you some things to think about. Sure. Talking to this Becky, not you,

23:46

Becky. Yeah. Yeah. That might get a little confusing. All right. Next one is from T.

23:53

Just the letter T. Just the letter T. Okay. Hello, Pastor Gabe. I came across your video about Calvinists marrying

23:59

Armenians. He says Armenians, but I think he means Armenians.

24:05

Yeah. Armenian, isn't that a country? Yeah. Or people from a country? Right. That's not what we're talking about.

24:12

Okay. Although I have a really funny story about sharing Calvinism with an Armenian. Oh, no.

24:17

I did that on my blog. It was my very first ShepCon. Yeah. I remember that. That was in 2017. Yeah. I thought he said that he was

24:24

Armenian, and so I'm going through the five points of Calvinism with him, but no, he said Armenian.

24:30

Well, don't I feel like the fool? Anyway, so this goes back to last week. This was our

24:35

Q &A last week when we had the question about a

24:41

Calvinist or somebody who's reformed marrying an Anabaptist. Right. Okay.

24:46

Yes. And I said my immediate response to that would be, don't do it. Yes. But you just want to give it some more time.

24:52

You want to have some time to talk things through. Yeah. Of course, I'm saying that. I'm saying my immediate response is a

24:58

Calvinist should not marry an Armenian, but I did. Yeah. You know, me being on the

25:03

Calvinist side married Becky, who was on the Wesleyan side, which is very

25:08

Armenian. Like, at its root is Armenian. Yeah. So anyway, he says that he saw this as a video.

25:14

Our podcast actually does get formatted into video and posted to YouTube.

25:22

It's the www .uttext page. Oh, cool. So you could also be watching slash listening to the podcast that way.

25:29

You can't see us. Uh -huh. It's just audio. No. But it's also on YouTube, so that might be what

25:37

T means. He saw that video and listened into our discussion about, you know, a Calvinist marrying an

25:43

Anabaptist. Uh -huh. But anyway, T says, I'm in a similar situation. Neither of us were spiritually mature at the time, but in short, after getting married and studying the

25:53

Bible, I've come to believe in Reformed theology, and I'm a five -point Calvinist, previously coming from Charismaticism.

26:01

Okay. While my wife, with the Pentecostal Charismatic background, has those beliefs.

26:07

She loves Hillsong, Casa de Dios. I don't even know what that is. G12 vision, et cetera.

26:13

And is a one -point Calvinist. And it's just, you know, either Armenian or semi -Pelagian.

26:20

Okay. Because there isn't really a one -point Calvinist. Although, I'm curious when you say that, what's the point that you're talking about.

26:25

But anyway. Yeah, which one point? This has caused division in our marriage, and even such things as reading the

26:33

Bible together. It's causing issues as we are interpreting the passages differently. We even attend different churches now.

26:41

We've been through marital counseling, but sadly, we may both be too convicted in our conscience and prideful not to change our beliefs.

26:50

In the video, you mentioned that you would not recommend that two people from such opposing beliefs marry, and I would not want to have children as my wife and I would teach our kids to disagree on core beliefs.

27:02

I don't want to consider divorce, but we are both hurting spiritually and unable to grow.

27:07

Please pray for us that we would find a solution. What would you recommend? Well, yes,

27:12

I would tell you, you shouldn't consider divorce either. I agree. And even if it's a sort of a situation where your wife might actually be unsaved, so she's just after the feels, maybe this charismaticism is so deep that it's more pagan than it is

27:29

Christian, and maybe your wife isn't saved, you still can't leave her. You know, the

27:34

Apostle Paul giving this instruction in 1 Corinthians 7, that even if an unbelieving spouse resolves to live with you, then you should remain with that spouse.

27:42

Yeah. But if they leave you, then you are unbound to that person. So you need to consider that. But I'm not speaking of this as if she's unsaved.

27:50

I'm looking at this as two persons with different theology, but you both profess to love

27:56

Christ. One may be more mature than the other. Of course, you express it's difficult for us to grow, and yeah, that's certainly true.

28:05

Yes. 1 Peter 3, 7 talks about if there is strife in your marriage, then even your prayers are hindered.

28:12

It's true. So yeah, I can't understand why there would be that lapse in growth, or everything's kind of become stagnant.

28:20

I don't know what else to tell you, T, other than that you can't give up on reading the

28:26

Bible together. Right. And you can't not attend the same church together. Right.

28:33

Did I say that right? You can't not attend the same church together. And it's probably double negatives,

28:38

I suppose. Yes. You need to attend the same church together. Yes. Maybe you can find something that feels a little bit more like neutral ground, at least as far – because really the big difference here isn't so much

28:54

Calvinism versus Arminianism. It sounds to me like it's more cessationism versus continuism.

29:00

That sounds to me like the bigger issue. So cessationism is the understanding that the miraculous sign gifts that were given to the apostles authenticating the word that they said was the word from God, those miracles have ceased.

29:14

That's cessationism. Okay. Okay? The sign gifts. Sure. Things like healing, prophecy, even speaking in tongues.

29:21

They're not in use today. Okay. Continuism is the idea that those things are continuing.

29:27

Oh, okay. And they're even continuing with the same regularity that we see in the book of Acts. I would say – I would actually argue they think it's happening with more regularity than it does in the book of Acts.

29:36

Okay. But any charismatic church that you can go into on a Sunday morning, you're going to find those kinds of gifts practiced.

29:43

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is there a way that the two of you can agree on just attending a Bible church together?

29:49

It doesn't have to necessarily be Calvinist. But you're finding a place that the two of you can go together where the cessationism versus continuism isn't getting in the way.

30:00

And maybe you're still growing in God's word while handling some of those other things outside of the relationship that you have at church.

30:11

Or even growing with those saints and maybe those saints are helping to kind of walk you along in those things. I don't know. You do need to talk to your current pastor.

30:19

So, T, you need to tell your pastor about this. Right, right. And I would hope that your wife, likewise, is raising concerns with her pastor, though if it's extremely

30:29

Pentecostal like that, I can't imagine what kind of theology is coming out of that council. Yeah.

30:35

But you do need people around you who know you. Like, your best answers are not going to come from a couple of podcast hosts.

30:43

Right. We can only, like, vaguely help you. I'm glad you found the video.

30:49

Yeah. I hope what you heard in the answer that we gave last week was convicting to you in some way was guiding.

30:58

And I would think that's the case because you've decided to email us. I think it would be.

31:04

I think you're right on target of finding a good solid church that is middle ground for them both because they need to find that middle ground in their marriage.

31:16

And so, in the Bible verse that says that the more mature need to…

31:22

Bear with the failings of the weak. Yes. We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves, but our neighbor for his good to build him up.

31:32

Exactly. So, that's Romans 15, 1 and 2. That should be your approach to your wife right now is to be more patient with her.

31:43

Yeah. You're going to be the one who's being more sacrificial for two reasons. Yes. For two reasons.

31:49

Number one, because you might be the more spiritually mature one between the two of you. Mm -hmm. And secondly, because you're the husband.

31:56

Yeah. Exactly. You have to lay down your life for your wife as Christ did for the church.

32:03

Right. You might have to make the better sacrifice for her benefit on her behalf.

32:10

Now, when I say that you're sacrificing for her, I'm not saying you have to go to her church.

32:15

Yeah. Because her church might be really bad. Yeah. And it would not be good for either one of you to encourage her to continue in that kind of teaching.

32:26

Don't indulge that. Yeah. So, as the leader in your home, as the head of your household, you do need to take charge not as like an overbearing authoritarian.

32:37

Mm -hmm. But you're the head. So, what does the head do for the body? It's providing for the body.

32:42

Mm -hmm. You know, the head feeds the body. The head is the control center for the body. Yeah. So, thinking about what you've got to do to pull your wife out of this bad theology and help her to grow in some solid things, even though the two of you have such radical disagreements on some pretty critical things.

33:02

Mm -hmm. Yeah. But you still have to be thinking about what you can do as a husband to love your wife as Christ loved the church.

33:11

Let me read that passage from Ephesians 5, beginning in verse 25. Husbands, love your wives just as Christ also loved the church and gave himself up for her, so that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that he might present to himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she would be holy and blameless.

33:38

So, husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself, for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church.

33:52

In a real spiritual sense, you have to be thinking about how are you nurturing and cherishing your wife.

34:01

Mm -hmm. Nurturing. Well, nourishing, really, is the word. But, yeah, what are you feeding to her to help to grow her in the word?

34:07

The two of you still need to be reading the Bible together. Yes. And there are ways that you can read

34:12

Scripture where cessationism versus continuism doesn't have to come into that. Oh, yeah? Yeah.

34:18

I mean, why? Why would a cessation versus continuous belief have to come into just reading the

34:25

Bible together? Well, I was just asking. Yeah. Do you have a... Sometimes, whenever you're interpreting the

34:35

Bible and doing your own Bible study, you're going to apply it more from your angle.

34:42

And you're talking about them going to a church that's more neutral. Is there a

34:47

Bible study that would be more helpful for her to kind of branch away from, slowly branch away from the charismatic?

34:54

Yeah, it's called opening your Bible and reading it. Oh, well, that's great. Well, you just got to open your

35:00

Bible and read your Bible. You can listen to this podcast. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I'm doing

35:06

New Testament study. Thursday is Old Testament study. And then, of course, Friday, we do the

35:12

Q &A. Right. Now, you know, she might hear this particular question and know, I think that's my husband and this is about us.

35:21

But the stuff that I'm doing on like Monday through Wednesday is I'm just going through the Sermon on the

35:26

Mount. It's whatever text I'm in in Matthew. I'm not making a big to -do over cessationism versus continuism unless the passage that I'm studying has to do with that.

35:37

Gotcha. So, yeah, finding those things that the two of you can study together, and that debate doesn't have to be present in whatever it is that you're studying.

35:46

Right. You can get to that later. I'm not saying ignore it, suppress it. But you can get to those things as they arise.

35:52

In the meantime, you need to be studying Scripture together. I just quoted to you from Ephesians 5.

35:58

Why not study in Ephesians? Yeah. That'd be great. So get together with your bride, open up the Bible, and the two of you read it together.

36:05

Talk about the things that you read and help to guide her in her understanding. Learn some ways and some tips that you can help her to see the truth of what it is that you're reading.

36:15

Yes. Don't just simply be the kind of person who you're reading the Bible together and you're telling her, no, babe, this is what this means.

36:23

Yeah. You need to help her see what it means. Right. That might mean employing like a

36:28

Socratic method. You lead her with questions. Right. So you ask a question that forces her to have to look in the text and answer it according to what the text says, not according to her own presuppositions or Pentecostalism or whatever else might be behind the way that she interprets

36:45

Scripture. Just read it together and ask her those questions that'll help to lead her to a proper understanding of what the

36:52

Scripture says. Yeah. But again, I come back to talking to people that actually know you and can guide you and help build you up and encourage you.

37:02

Precisely. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And know how to speak into this situation a little bit better than these two strangers on this side of the podcast can do.

37:11

But I do appreciate your question, T. And we will be praying. Yeah, right. Yeah. You're right with me there.

37:16

So why don't we take a moment right now and we'll just pray for them and then we'll go to our next question. Yeah, let's.

37:22

Heavenly Father, I thank you for the kindness that you show to us in Christ, the grace of God that we get to experience every single day.

37:31

For in Christ Jesus, our sins have been forgiven and we have been given fellowship with God.

37:38

We can pray to you right now and know that you're hearing our prayers because of what Christ has done for us and that he is interceding for us before the

37:45

Father. As Christ has laid down his life for his bride, the church.

37:51

I pray that T. Would do that for his bride as the two of them are in a really tough place right now.

37:58

Theologically, both believing in different things, both even feeling like they're not growing in their faith because there is strife in their marriage.

38:06

I pray that you would give T. Wisdom into how he is to be a good husband in laying his life down for his wife and even sanctifying her by the washing of water through the word.

38:19

That's the way that Christ purifies his bride, the church. That's the way a husband can purify his bride, his wife, by taking her through Scripture that she might be sanctified and grown according to the things that we read here in the

38:33

Bible. Give T. Some good wise men around him that he can rely upon people who know him and know his wife and are able to speak into their lives good counsel that they might be a son and a daughter of God desiring to please

38:47

God according to your word. Thank you again for your goodness and your grace.

38:54

I pray for your goodness upon T. And upon his wife. And may they grow and blossom into a wonderful couple giving a great testament to the way that Christ loves the church.

39:07

And it's in Jesus' name that we pray. Amen. Amen. All right. This next question comes from Jason.

39:13

He says, Greetings, Pastor Gabe. It is great to have you back on the podcast again. I think

39:18

I speak for all of us listeners that we missed hearing the Holy Spirit speak through you, expositing the text verse by verse.

39:27

Thus, no more sabbaticals for Pastor Gabe. No more, babe.

39:33

All right. On a more serious note, I work at a public education institution here in California that requires us to use an email signature template that has your personal pronouns listed at the bottom.

39:47

Oh, boy. While I use the template, I have discreetly deleted the pronouns line, and so far no one has made an issue out of it.

39:55

I do not use them because I feel that using them justifies someone's sexual sin by allowing them to think that they can be an alternate gender outside of how

40:05

God created him or her as outlined in Genesis 127. But how can

40:11

I approach this biblically should it get to a point where I am required to use pronouns or face disciplinary action?

40:20

Well, I would say that in the laws of our land that exist that you're going to say it is your religious conviction that I not use these pronouns to define myself because it is coming from a belief system that I do not align with.

40:36

You're asking me to use these pronouns because it's part of something that I just cannot endorse.

40:42

Right. And so, therefore, I'm not using the pronouns for that reason. If you articulate that, that it is your religious conviction, based on Genesis 127, just like you said, the

40:53

Bible says he created them, male and female, in the image of God he created them.

41:00

They are immutably male and female. A man never changes into a woman.

41:05

A woman never changes into a man. You say that that is your religious conviction based on the very first chapter of the

41:12

Bible that you believe in, and you have now laid it down that this is a religious issue for you.

41:19

If they fire you over that, you have now been discriminated against because of your religious beliefs.

41:25

Yep. And so now you have a lawsuit that you can bring against this school.

41:31

It's okay for Christians to sue. We just can't sue other Christians. Right. 1 Corinthians 6. So you can bring a lawsuit against that school because they discriminated against you.

41:41

And this is in keeping with the laws of our land. They broke the law. You did not.

41:47

Right. You're exercising your First Amendment right. And so if they require you to have to put something in an email that you don't want to put in there because of your religious convictions, be sure that's stated.

42:01

And then if some sort of disciplinary action is brought against you, then you can take them to court over it as a violation of your

42:08

First Amendment rights. Now, California is kind of funny. Yeah, they are.

42:13

That's to put it mildly. Maybe it won't go that well. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you regarding that,

42:20

Jason. But I can just tell you, this is what our laws are. This is what our Constitution says. And that's what you would be acting in accordance with.

42:27

I would not tell you to do anything that goes against your conscience. Oh, definitely not.

42:33

Like, what's the problem with having he, him there? That is my pronouns. I'm not being asked to have pronouns that are other than who

42:41

I really am. Yeah, I wish it would have happened in a different light, like coming from a different reason.

42:50

Because I appreciate pronouns when I don't know if Casey is a boy or a girl.

42:57

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But it's so muddy that I can't justify it either.

43:04

It's such a foolish controversy. Because you never, you never address a person you're talking to by third person pronouns.

43:15

Ever. I have never in this conversation. I don't get it. Yeah. I do not get it.

43:20

Well, yeah. It's an ideology. They're pushing an ideology. Yeah. I don't know if you've noticed now. It just makes me really uncomfortable.

43:26

I'm like, do you not understand grammar? Right. They, them. Yeah. They're having such a hard problem.

43:33

They, like how many of them? Oh, just that person over there. Just one? But you're calling them they. They is.

43:38

Yeah, that's right. They is. They are having, yeah. They is having a hard problem. I know. It's just awkward.

43:43

I know. It's a ridiculous battle over grammar. But we see these kinds of ideologies turn into a battle over the dictionary.

43:52

Oh, yeah. For sure. It's pushing an ideology. I don't know if you've noticed, but at the grocery store, you're starting to see more and more stamps on different food items that you buy saying how environmentally friendly this is, how it was packaged in an environmentally friendly environment, that it only used this so many energy units or something like that.

44:15

I can't remember what was on the sticker that I saw. Oh, interesting. On a thing of milk that you were asking me to buy the other day.

44:21

Oh, really? Yeah. It's like this has never been on the label of my milk that I have bought before.

44:26

But they're sticking that on things now, pushing an ideology.

44:32

That's why they're doing it. Oh, you're kidding. They want you to think about climate change and global warming.

44:37

They want to put that in your brain. Wow. And they want to require these companies, these businesses that are privately owned, probably, it could be publicly, stock market, but still, they're businesses.

44:50

This is capitalism, okay? Yeah. But they're wanting those businesses to adopt those practices and put them in effect in the public marketplace so that we all have to think this way.

45:02

Our thinking is now being guided into this whole climate change thing.

45:07

And this is going to be the next big pandemic. Oh, wow. They're going to lock everybody down and say -

45:14

Because they've already done it once. We're harming the environment. Right. The next time around, it's not going to be a virus. It's going to be in the environment.

45:22

Yeah. It's going to be because we have to protect the environment, so you all need to lock down. You all need to shelter in place or the oceans are going to boil and we're all going to die.

45:31

You can't go to church because that's a waste of energy at your church. You got to run the air conditioner and the heater or whatever else.

45:38

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, they've gone to electric cars and everything. Yeah. And which -

45:44

And electric stoves. Yeah. The electric car companies are getting government subsidies, which is why you attempting to buy a regular combustion automobile now costs way more than it did two or three years ago.

45:58

It's irritating. It's because of the money the government is putting behind the building of electric vehicles that now our combustion vehicles are starting to cost a lot more.

46:08

We need a new van, people. Our van is going to break down soon and we can't afford it because the prices have gone.

46:16

I'm kicking myself. I didn't do it two years ago. Poor Charlie. When the prices were way down.

46:22

Our van's been good to us. It's lasted a long time, but we're over 225 ,000 miles now. So, yeah, we're - 226,

46:30

I think. I'm going, how long do I got left before it is just going to - Yeah. It's been good.

46:36

I mean, we haven't had serious engine problems, but - Fabulous. Yeah. You can only go so long.

46:42

Yeah. It's due. It's not a 1970s vehicle, so - You're right. It's got an end date, an expiration date.

46:49

An expiration date. What is it, 2005? Yeah. Yeah. So, we're coming up on pretty close to 20 years in that vehicle, but it's been good for us.

47:00

Lord, keep it moving. Keep it going. Just a little bit longer. Just a little longer. Maybe prices on these vehicles will come down a little bit more.

47:07

All right, let's do one more question. This is from Kevin in Montana. Dear Pastor Gabe, well, you have really done a number on me.

47:15

I have never considered who the Nephilim were or that UFOs are real, but they're actually demons until you started talking about it.

47:24

Now, I can't get enough of it. Are you aware that Cultish, a podcast extension of Apologia Church, just dropped a 10 -episode series on aliens?

47:33

I just binge listened to the whole thing. Oh, wow. Pretty soon, my family is going to think

47:39

I'm one of those UFO crazies who's going to start combing his hair like the ancient aliens guy and sculpting

47:44

Devil's Tower and his mashed potatoes. Close Encounters of the Third Kind reference right there, by the way.

47:50

And I have you to thank for it. Keep up the great work, Kevin in Montana. You're pretty close to Devil's Tower, I think, aren't you?

48:01

Oh, that's in Wyoming. Don't you have to wear the tinfoil hats? Yeah, right. Isn't that a thing?

48:07

I think he's taking his tinfoil hat off. Oh, I see, I see. Getting into all this stuff.

48:14

The tinfoil hat, wasn't that from the 80s or something? I don't remember what it was. Yeah, it was a long time ago. Probably sooner than that.

48:20

Yeah, I did know that Cultist dropped that series. I've actually listened to a couple of episodes of it. This is stuff that I've actually believed this for a long time.

48:29

There's just not really been a reason to talk about it. Yeah. But interest in this stuff is really amping up.

48:37

Yeah, it is. Especially when the government is actually leaking stuff about UFOs and alien encounters and things like that.

48:45

You've got credible scientists, politicians, pilots, things like that that are making appearances in the news saying, this is exactly what

48:53

I saw. There's video footage, genuine video footage, from the government of UAPs, which is an

49:00

Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon. Oh, okay. It's another UFO. Right.

49:06

So UFO is Unidentified Flying Object. UAP is Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon.

49:11

I don't know exactly why they changed the name. If it was for a reason other than UFO just has a certain stigma.

49:18

Yeah. So we want a different abbreviation. It only works a certain way. Yeah. It's still the same concept.

49:24

It's a synonym. Unidentified Flying Object, Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon. Yeah. But some of these things, the way that they fly, if you've seen the videos of them, it really is pretty phenomenal.

49:37

I think that's pretty accurate. So are we looking at something that is actually an object? Sometimes they're just glowing orbs of light.

49:43

Okay. So is it an object or is it a phenomenon of some kind? Now, again, all of this,

49:48

I believe, is just demonic illusion. I think these things are real. I think that people actually have seen.

49:55

I've seen an Unidentified Flying Object. It was a flying object and I couldn't identify it.

50:00

It was a UFO. We see strange things in the sky all the time.

50:05

But some of these things do have a demonic presence behind them that's meant to fool the masses.

50:12

And this stuff is becoming more and more mainstream. As the government is even putting things out and saying, yeah, sure, we've encountered these strange aerial phenomenon and here's the video footage of it.

50:23

I've got friends of mine. I know a pastor friend who is not a wacko. Okay.

50:29

And he has said he's seen one of those tic -tac -shaped, you know, white tic -tac -shaped object in the sky flying around in such speed that you cannot explain how something is able to move that fast.

50:42

And even he's seen that. Interesting. As I've talked about, as you hear cultish talk about it, there's the

50:48

Haunted Cosmos podcast that's also been really popular. As you're seeing these things become more mainstream and even more and more

50:56

Christians are talking about them, let me just give you this caution. Don't go looking for this stuff.

51:02

Right. And when I mean don't go looking for it, I mean don't go trying to have an alien encounter.

51:08

Right. It's demonic. Yes. You actually have to do things that are pagan in order to make contact with these beings.

51:17

I believe that you can, and I think people actually have, and I think people know how. Yeah. But you have to do things.

51:23

If you've ever listened to people talk about how they've had these encounters with these beings, they have to do things that's like sitting in a seance trying to make contact with a ghost.

51:33

Yeah. Very similar sort of a thing because there's demons that are behind these ghostly apparitions.

51:40

There are demons that are behind these appearances of aliens and UFOs as well. In Deuteronomy 18 verse 10, there shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.

52:09

For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord, and because of these detestable things, the

52:14

Lord your God will drive them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God.

52:19

For those nations which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners.

52:26

But as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do so. And we're going to see more and more people in this culture that are going to be fascinated by this stuff and be drawn to it and attempt to make contact with it and dabble in it.

52:39

Right. And no matter how cool it might seem to you to see such a thing or make such an encounter, you cannot do it.

52:47

Right. You would literally be dealing with the occult if you were to do such a thing. I do believe that there are such things as extraterrestrials.

52:57

They're demonic presences. They do live in a plane of existence that's different than the one that we inhabit.

53:04

And on occasion, they cross from that plane into this one and they do some strange things and scare people and give us the heebie -jeebies.

53:11

For sure. And cause us to doubt and fear and turn away from God, those people that go after this stuff.

53:18

So don't dabble in it. Yeah, these things are out there and we're going to see this increase with regularity. You know about it so that you don't mess with it.

53:27

Right. But continue to draw near to Christ. Right. As it says in James 4, draw near to God and he will draw near to you.

53:34

Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Amen. All right, that's where I'm ending.

53:41

I hope that, yeah, that interest that I have given to you, Kevin, is a healthy interest.

53:49

Yes. Not turning into one of these hobby horse things that's actually going to cause you to start messing with it.

53:55

Yeah, hopefully not. That's too dangerous. Don't do that. Yeah. All right, let's finish there with prayer. Okay, let's.

54:00

And if you're listening to this at night, good luck sleeping now. Heavenly Father, we thank you for, again, all that you have given to us, the grace that you show us daily, and help us to draw near to Christ.

54:13

Help us to draw near to you. And we are not in fear of the things that the people fear.

54:19

We don't call conspiracy all that this people calls conspiracy, as said in Isaiah 6.

54:25

But we are to fear the Lord our God and let him be our fear and our dread. As it said in Proverbs 1 -7, the fear of the

54:32

Lord is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge. So we draw near to Christ, our sins are forgiven, we have fellowship with God, and we have the promise of everlasting life forever with you in glory.

54:45

Then, when we get to be with Christ, we cross into that plane of existence, which we can't inhabit now, but we will on that day.

54:54

And then those things that are mysterious to us now will make sense. We'll get to see all of that in a really incredible way.

55:01

Most of all, we will get to see God. As it says in 1 John 3 -2, we will see him as he is because we will be made to be like him.

55:11

And so, Lord, let that be the day that we desire. Let that be the thing that we want to have as our sight in eternity, not making contact with these spiritual things or aliens or demons or whatever else, but our desire is

55:26

Christ and his holiness. As we read in the

55:32

Sermon on the Mount just a couple of weeks ago, Matthew 6 -33, Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all the things you need will be added to you as well.

55:42

Thank you again, Lord Jesus, we pray in his precious name. Amen. Amen. Aren't you pumped?

55:58

Are you pumped? Are you excited, babe?

56:03

I'm excited. Wake up. I am mentally excited, physically exhausted.

56:09

The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. Oh, so weak. It is terribly disappointing how weak it is.

56:18

You're so spiritual. All right. Typical. Let's roll.