Does Hebrews 6 Teach that You Can Lose Your Salvation? | Rapp Report Weekly 0013 | Striving for Eternity

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Welcome to the Wrap Report with Andrew Rappaport, where we provide biblical interpretations and applications.

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This is the Ministry of Striving for Eternity and the Christian Podcast Community. For more content or to request a speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.

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All right, well, welcome to another Wrap Report Weekly Edition, and we are going to be answering a question that came into us, actually it wasn't so much a question as it was a challenge, and that is we were told that Hebrews 6, 4 -6, teaches that you can lose your salvation.

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Someone was looking at some of the courses that we have with the Striving for Eternity Academy, if you're not familiar with those, we have classes on systematic theology, how to interpret the

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Bible, an introduction to discipling, and one on world religions. More coming, but someone was taking our class on systematic theology, and in doing so, they looked at it and responded and told us that we were wrong in teaching that one cannot lose their salvation, and they used

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Hebrews 6, verses 4 -6, as a proof text. Fortunately, I have a paper, an article written on the website at strivingforeternity .org,

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where we have the article there, so you can just search for Hebrews 6, and it'll come up, or Can You Lose Your Salvation, and the article, we're going to go through that article, for those of you who are listening or watching, and I'll drop the link to the article in the show notes, so that you have it for future reference, but this is an issue that comes up often, people that try to argue you can lose your salvation, and so it is one that we should deal with, and should address, and make sure we rightly handle

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God's Word in doing so. Also, I will state that we will be giving a, or announcing in a little bit, the giveaway that we're giving, or that we're doing.

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We have, let's pull it out here, this very heavy preacher's Bible that we'll be giving away, it's a

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New American Standard, tell you how to enter to win that in a little bit. So let's take a look at Hebrews 6, verses 4 to 6, and see if it actually does teach that you can lose your salvation.

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It states, for it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the

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Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the Word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the

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Son of God to their own harm, and holding Him up in contempt.

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So that's the passage. Does that teach that someone can lose their salvation?

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Well, many are confused by this because they look at this and they think that it contradicts

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Romans chapter 8, verses 35 to 39, which states, who shall separate us from the love of Christ, shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?

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As it is written, for your sake we are all being killed all day long.

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We are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.

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No, in all things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.

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For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, not things to come, nor powers, nor heights, nor depths, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our

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Lord. Now, that passage makes it seem really, really clear that there is nothing that once we experience the love of Christ that will be able to separate us.

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Nothing that's in creation. And so, some think that there is a conflict here.

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Well, let's start with a rule of interpretation. Whenever you come to a passage of Scripture that seems difficult to understand, one of the key principles of interpretation is to always approach the clearer passages of Scripture to explain the more challenging ones.

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In this case, the Book of Romans is an instructional letter. It is designed to be something that is doctrinal and easy to understand.

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And therefore, we would lean on that passage more than the passage in Hebrews. Why?

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Well, if we look at Hebrews 5 .11, which is within the context here, it says,

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About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.

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So, even within the immediate context of the passage we're looking at, he is saying that this is a passage that is hard to understand.

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And therefore, we should look at the Romans 8 passage to explain

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Hebrews 6. Now, if Romans 8 is clearly teaching that we cannot be separated in any way from the love of God, then the

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Hebrews 6 passage cannot be saying that we can be separated from the love of God.

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When we look at this, we have to be aware that the Book of Romans is an instructional in nature.

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That's the style of literature that it is. And it is designed for ease of understanding, where Romans is this general letter to Roman believers who are not necessarily

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Jewish in descent. Hebrews is different. Hebrews is written specifically to people that are

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Jewish in descent. In other words, you have to have some familiarity with Judaism and specifically the

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Book of Leviticus to really understand the Book of Hebrews well.

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And so, what we want to address is the fact that the key to understanding

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Hebrews 6 .4 -6 is to identify who's being discussed here.

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Now, the text here gives us five descriptions of these people. First, they are people who, one, once been enlightened.

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So, the first thing we see is they once had been enlightened. Second, they tasted the heavenly gift.

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Third, they shared in the Holy Spirit. Fourth, they tasted the goodness of the

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Word of God. And fifth, they tasted the power of the age to come.

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Now, if these two passages were talking about the same groups of people, then we do have a contradiction.

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If not, we need to determine who the two groups are. So, let's take a look at these words that we see in Hebrews and break them down.

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First, the word enlightened. It means to make known in reference to the inner life or transcendent matters and thus to give light or shed light upon.

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That's its meaning. It has the imagery of a heavenly light granted to an enlightened one as through prayer.

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While this has the idea of someone that has an association with God, it does not, however, mandate a relationship with God.

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It could be someone that just has some association. The other word that we see a couple times here, it's mentioned three, is tasted.

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And tasted means, quote, to taste, to eat, or to experience something cognitively or emotionally, unquote.

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It does not imply possession. This would be an accurate way to describe the

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Jewish people who had the truth all along because they had God's Word, but they rejected the truth, which is consistent with the author's audience.

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The author's audience for this book is Jewish people. This would refer to people that have had some experience with God without requiring a complete relationship with God.

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In other words, they don't possess a relationship with God, but they are knowledgeable.

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And so we end up seeing that in this passage, there are three possible people that this could refer to.

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One, it could refer to genuine believers that fell away from grace due to some sin, and because of that, they lost their salvation.

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And that is the way that the person who challenged us takes it. Second, it could refer to Jewish people who had truth as God's chosen people.

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They had the scriptures. They studied the scriptures. They memorized the scriptures. In fact, an

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Orthodox Jew today and many of the Jewish people back then, before the time of Bar Mitzvah, which would be 13 years of age, a

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Jewish boy would have had to memorize the first five books of Moses in Hebrew, word for word.

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That would mean that they have tasted, they have been enlightened to the scriptures.

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But that doesn't mean that they possess Christ, that they possess salvation, regeneration. So it could mean the

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Jewish people. The third group that this could be. So the first group we said was genuine believers that somehow lost their salvation.

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Two is Jewish people that tasted of the truth, but were not regenerate. The third group is people who are part of a local congregation of believers, but had never been saved and had never enjoyed the benefits and seen the working of God and his people because they rejected salvation.

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In other words, they partook. They were able to see some of the experience that genuine believers would have.

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They got to be part of that being in the local congregation, but they were actually never part of the universal or invisible church.

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They were part of the local body only. So if this passage is discussing true believers that somehow fell away, one thing is clear.

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According to this passage, they could never be saved again. Verses four to six declares that it is impossible for these people to be regenerated a second time.

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In other words, if they can lose their salvation, they can never get it back.

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While there is no reference to what caused the falling away, the text seems to imply that they were leaving the church, leaving the local assembly.

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But what's absolutely clear is that if they left, they never can gain this back again.

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This is very different to the way many people who believe that you can lose your salvation hold to because they would say that there's some sin you do.

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You can lose your salvation and then gain it back again. This text would say, if they're going to use this as a proof text, this text would say you can never gain it back again.

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Also, if we look at the passage, it is discussing a loss of salvation.

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Actually, the very next passage, Hebrews 6, 9 -20, gives us more sense from context, which is a second principle of interpretation.

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Always read within the context. As we looked at Hebrews 5 -11, we can look at Hebrews 6, 9 -20, the passage right after it, and we see that the writer explains the certainty of God's promises in order to secure the reality that God will not break

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His promises and that we are not stronger than God to break His promises.

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And that would argue against people that say that God won't take salvation. We can't lose salvation by other means, but we could lose it ourselves.

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God will not do that. However, because we're not stronger than God is what the text is saying.

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However, when He promises that nothing can separate us from the love of God, what certainty is there if you can actually lose your salvation?

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That sounds like you're being separated from the love of God. In fact, if God is the source of our salvation, how could we lose it?

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This becomes really important because people will say that we can lose our own salvation, that somehow

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God won't take it away, but we will lose it if we continue to sin.

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Well, Romans 8, I'm sorry, let me get that again.

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Romans 11 -29, Paul gives a passage that makes it really clear.

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Speaking of salvation, I'll start in verse 28. As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake.

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But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.

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For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

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Now, if something's irrevocable, can it be taken away? The answer is no, it cannot.

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In fact, in Philippians 1 -6, Paul says,

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He that began a good work in you will bring it to completion in days of Jesus Christ.

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So, God is the author and the finisher. If God is the author and the finisher, and he says this gift is irrevocable, what could possibly cause us to lose our salvation?

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The answer should be clear, nothing. As mentioned previously, however, Romans is a passage that is the clearer text.

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So, if we look at Romans 8 -35 -39, Philippians 1 -6, or Romans 11 -29, all of these clearly teach that we cannot lose our salvation.

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Therefore, we should take that and now read in that explanation, that doctrinal statement, into Hebrews 6.

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As we examine Hebrews 6, knowing from the clearer passages that we cannot lose that salvation, what does that do with this passage?

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Well, it eliminates one of the three groups that we would have when we are looking at it.

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It eliminates the first group, people who were genuinely saved and lost their salvation. Then, who does

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Hebrews 6 -4 -6 refer to? Well, evidently, these people have had some relationship to salvation without possessing it completely.

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It cannot refer to people that gain salvation or regeneration by God and then lose it.

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It would make better sense to understand that this is a reference either to Jewish people who had the truth as God's chosen people, who had the

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Word of God, or to people who are part of a local church, a local congregation, but were never saved in the first place.

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The latter is preferred since the context of Hebrews 11 -6 -3 relates to the local church.

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However, referring to Jewish people that may have been within the congregation, but not truly regenerate, could be a plausible argument.

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The only person or group that this could not refer to is genuine believers who lose their salvation.

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Jesus spoke very often about hypocrisy in the parables. It would be consistent for the writer of Hebrews to address the same issue of hypocrisy.

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Jesus warned that there would be hypocrites within the church. We should not be surprised that there would be unbelievers within a local congregation that would eventually walk away from the faith.

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We see this clearly taught even in the book of 1 John. 1

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John 2, we end up seeing that John makes it clear when people had walked away and left the church.

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He says in 1 John 2 -19, They went out from us, but they were not of us.

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For if they had been of us, they would have continued with us.

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But they went out, that it might be plain that they were not of us.

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That's a passage that, again, 1 John is instructional in nature and clearly teaching doctrine.

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The clear passage should interpret the harder to understand or more challenging passage.

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That passage in 1 John teaches that we cannot lose our salvation.

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If someone walks away from the faith, it exposes that they were never regenerate in the first place.

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Because it says here, if they were regenerate, they would have remained with us. So in summary,

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Hebrews 6, 4 -6 refers to those that attend a local congregation, whether Jewish believers or not, without being believers themselves.

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And after some time, they stopped playing the hypocrite and left. They left the local assembly, denying the faith that they once claimed to.

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Whether it be a general principle or an absolute truth that deny that they've walked away, that they will never be able to be regenerate again, we don't know.

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There are probably people who walk away and they were part of the church and leave the church, but then return and get saved.

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We know that that happens. But what I think is that this passage is referring to people who walk away denying their faith.

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Maybe a Sam Harris type, who understands the truth, but rejected it.

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And in that rejection has made it a life's purpose to deny the truth. That's someone who tasted of it and will never be able to experience it again.

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Now when it comes to this issue, the question of can you lose your salvation?

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One of the things I think that is essential for us to understand is who saved us.

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We did not save ourselves. We cannot save ourselves. It is

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God who saved us. We have to rely on God for this.

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We cannot appeal to ourselves in any way. In fact, even the belief that we have, the faith that we have came from God.

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In Philippians 1 .29 it says, For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him, but also suffer for his sake.

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So not only, he's talking here in Philippians 1 about people who are suffering for the sake of Christ, and he's saying not only has it been granted to you to believe, but also to suffer.

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He's telling the Philippians, Paul's telling the Philippians, that just like your belief that you had in Christ was granted to you, given to you by Christ, so is the suffering in your life.

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Now, the suffering comes from Christ and has purpose in the lives of the Philippians.

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Well, if that's the case, he's saying, he's making the realization that just like that suffering, that suffering has been granted to you, and therefore you shouldn't fight against it.

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Sorry for the faith healers who believe that we should never suffer. Paul doesn't agree with you.

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For all of the word of faithers, for all of the people that are in the prosperity gospel, that teach that God wants you to be healthy and wealthy, the reality is

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Paul says the opposite. He was telling the Philippian believers here that this suffering was granted by Christ, and just as this suffering was granted by Christ, so was their belief.

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We can't even take credit and claim for the belief that was within us when we were regenerated, because that was granted to us by God.

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And if God gave us that salvation, who are we, or what is anything that could separate us from us?

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In order for someone to take salvation away from us, they would have to be stronger than God himself, because God granted it, and therefore it's

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God who bestows it upon us. And if God gave us salvation, then we can't even lose it ourselves, because even we would have to be stronger than God.

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That's what Hebrews 6 goes on to say. So, we are not stronger than God, we cannot lose it ourselves.

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Romans 8 makes it clear, there is nothing, nothing that could take it. Now here's the reality, when we do theology, let me encourage you to always go back to the attributes of God.

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All of our theology must be rooted in the attributes and nature of God. When it comes to the issue of can we lose our salvation, there are two attributes that come into play.

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One, is that God is eternal, and two, that God is omniscient.

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Why those two? Well, the fact that God is eternal means he is outside of time.

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He knows all the things that are going to happen within time. The fact that God is omniscient is that he knows everything.

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God knows the future sins that you and I will commit. And therefore, when he died on the cross as a payment for our sin, he knew which sins we would commit.

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In fact, when did the payment of sin occur? When we believed?

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No, at the cross. At the cross is when the payment was made.

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Therefore, that payment at the cross was before you and I committed our first sin, because it was before we were born.

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Christ made a payment of sin for all of our sins, past, present, and future.

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He knows everything, so when he regenerated us, he knew every sin we would commit, because that payment was in the past, and it pays for all of our sin.

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How could we, after we get saved, after we're regenerated in time, how could we somehow in the future sin in such a way that God didn't know about it?

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Was he surprised when we sinned and went, Oh, I didn't recognize that. I didn't know you would do something that bad.

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You have to lose your salvation now. No, God, when he died on that cross, made a payment for all sin that we committed, past, what's in our past today, present, something you may be doing right now, or even the sins that are in our future, because at the cross, all of our sins were future.

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And so the reality is there's no future sin that we could commit that would surprise

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God or somehow have him thinking that he didn't know they would happen.

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He is the author and the finisher of our faith. As we saw in Philippians, he is the one that saves us.

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He is the one that brings us to salvation. Therefore, if he says we'll never lose it, then there's no way we could ever lose our salvation.

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So Hebrews 6 cannot be speaking of a loss of salvation.

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All right, so John, I'm sorry, Vincent. Yeah. John's not here tonight.

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So Vincent, what are your thoughts? I mean, you have dealt with the issue of people that say you can lose your salvation.

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Have you had people use this passage before? And how do you argue it? Yeah. So a couple of points

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I'd like to bring up to go on your Philippians one, too. I'll also go to Romans 12 3 about the for my grace given me,

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I say to every one of you, do not think of yourselves more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment in accordance with the faith

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God has distributed to each of you. So who's doing the distributing of the faith there?

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I like to ask people it's a lot. A lot of what we're discussing here is people.

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It's pretty clear that it's the big difference is a man centered view and synergism versus a

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God centered view and monergism for sure. A lot of what we're discussing here today. Okay. So let's define those terms.

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Sure. So monergism, mono meaning one, is the idea that that one person was involved in our regeneration and that one person being

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God. Well, actually one being, I should say, because he's three persons and one being. Yes.

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Synergism is the idea that we work with God to be saved.

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In other words, like, yeah, Christ died on the cross and he did 99%, but you have to do the last 1%.

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You have to work with God to earn that last way or to do that final step.

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That synergism, that somehow we work with God in our regeneration. You know the biggest issue with all that is it makes what

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Christ did, it only makes man savable. It says that Christ didn't actually save anyone, and that's what really bugs me about that view.

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The man has to, with his own free will, activate it, accept it.

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That means that Christ only made man savable, and he's waiting on the person to make the decision.

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To me, that is a big affront to what Christ did on the cross for his people. In fact,

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I would say when we look at Ephesians 2 .8 .9, people that would argue that way are going to argue that somehow they have some works to add, something that they could boast about, and Paul makes it very clear in Ephesians 2 .8

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.9. That's not the case, because here he says, For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of your own doing.

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It is a gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one can boast.

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In other words, salvation is somewhere God gets all the credit. And if God did most of the work, but we do that final step, here's the reality.

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If God did all that he can, and the final step rests on us, whether that final step is our belief, us doing something to believe, that we believe and then

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God regenerates us, or if it's works, the thing that makes us ultimately righteous in God's sight, whatever that is, becomes the ultimate salvation.

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So if God did all that he can and made us save a bull, but we then had to save ourselves, then we have just made the ultimate thing of salvation ourselves.

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And so I guess, and I usually go to, that you cannot lose your salvation,

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I usually go to John 6. I know that's used a lot, but it's pretty powerful that Jesus is given a flock, and God will draw them, and Jesus will lose none of them.

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So if you're saying that you could be part of his flock, and then you can wander or take yourself out of that flock, that just destroys a lot of what

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John 6 says. I find that problematic too. Unless you think you're stronger than Christ.

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Yeah, it's like these sheep can go against the will of the shepherd.

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They control the shepherd. It's just a weird point of view to me.

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But it is one that a lot of people have. And actually, after this commercial, let's play a game that we'll look at one group that does hold to these sort of things.

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So let's just play a quick commercial here. Ding dong, Jehovah's Witnesses.

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Ding dong, Mormons. Christian, are you ready to defend the faith when false religions ring your doorbell?

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Do you know what your Muslim and Jewish friends believe? You will if you get Andrew Rappaport's book,

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What Do They Believe? When we witness to people, we need to present the truth. But it is very wise to know what they believe.

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And you will get Andrew Rappaport's book at whatdotheybelieve .com. All right,

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Vincent, we are going to play a game. Name that cult. All right, so Vincent.

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Name that what? I didn't quite get that. What was the name? You are going to have to name that cult. Oh, cult.

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So you have to name the cult. Ready? This cult believes that you can lose your salvation.

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And now you name it as soon as you figure out which cult it is. You can lose your salvation after having been regenerate.

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They believe in three levels of heaven. That hell would be lightly populated.

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Is that Mormonism? That is correct. Mormonism. I know they have multiple tiers of heaven for sure.

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That is correct. And I will be out pretty soon for folks who may be in the area.

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I will be speaking at Manti Utah. Well, actually

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I won't be speaking at the Manti Miracle Pageant. But the outreach to the Manti Miracle Pageant.

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I think I am speaking on, I think it is Wednesday. I think Wednesday is the 20th,

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June 20th. But there are usually a couple hundred Christians that go out to witness to thousands of Mormons.

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And we will be out there to witness to them. And one of the things that will be released coming very soon.

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Actually, I believe it is tomorrow is the releasing. No, in two days.

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Sorry, Friday. So by the time this podcast comes out, it will be released.

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Is the book Sharing the Good News with Mormons. You can get it already. You can get it now at the

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Striving for Eternity store. But that is a book that is out. Eric Johnson and Sean McDowell are the general editors.

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I contributed a chapter on open air preaching to Mormons. It is 24 different tactics, different styles of witnessing to Mormons.

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And that book will be debuted at the Mormon Miracle Pageant. We will have several of the authors speaking on their topics.

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We had Jay Warner Wallace wrote a chapter. Sean McDowell wrote a chapter.

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Sandra Tanner had contributed. Matt Slick contributed. Anyone that knows much about Mormonism and sees all the authors, it is a very impressive list.

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And it is something where you could just read one chapter and get encouraged on how to witness to Mormons.

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So if you want to get that book, you can get it at the Striving for Eternity store.

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Just go to strivingforeternity .org. And you could pick that book up. So with that, you know,

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I do want to encourage folks to come out if they're in the Utah area. And it's actually a two -week pageant.

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And you could go to Mormon Research Ministry. They are at mrm .org to get details.

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They will be, they're the ones that really head this up each year. There's also some folks down in that area of Manti.

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There's a church that actually brings people in. I think they end up hosting the speakers.

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And so it is a really neat event. Very different type of event.

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I know this year I'm going to be encouraged to see my buddy, Eddie Roman from Living Waters.

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He's coming out and I haven't seen him for a while. He's going to be out there for one day.

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One day. He's flying out for one day. So if he's willing to fly out for one day, why not you?

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He doesn't make a lot of money. So he saved up for it. Maybe it's too late to save. So save for next year then.

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But it is a yearly event around this time in June, mid -June. So you could go to mrm .org,

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get details there. So have you had much experience, Vincent, witnessing to Mormons?

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We do not really have a big Mormon population here. We do have more Jehovah's Witnesses.

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So one of my best friends growing up was a Jehovah's Witness. And I didn't really, at the time, know much about it.

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I just knew that they didn't celebrate Christmas and all that. But yeah, we have more

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Jehovah's Witnesses here than we do Mormons. That's interesting because you're down in an area where the

37:06

Mormons, as they traveled out to Utah, made their way through the south down there, as Joseph Smith was kind of kicked out of every town he was in.

37:17

It's too hot down here to pedal your bikes around. Yeah, maybe.

37:26

Well, let's mention, give a quick promo for a conference coming up and a friend of ours who's actually going to be doing a debate at it.

37:36

It all started with a small -time dream. Hold a conference in a church. With a small budget, could we afford to bring in a

37:44

Christian celebrity speaker? And with an ear to hear more than just the same canned messages. Do we want to?

37:52

With these two questions, the mentionables were born. We found the best under -the -radar

37:57

Christian apologists that we could find. Writers, podcasters, and bloggers. Their voice was small, but their message was huge.

38:05

On May 18th and 19th, The Mentionables will be appearing in Greensboro. Head out to Greensboro Christian Church and hear this grassroots phenomena in action.

38:15

Featuring talks and a great debate. Head over to thementionables .org to get your tickets.

38:22

Or call Greensboro Christian Church at 336 -621 -5226.

38:30

The Mentionables. Small -time voices, big -time noise. Striving for Eternity is a

38:36

Christ -centered ministry focused on equipping people for eternity. And they provide speakers and seminars that come to your church.

38:44

With expertise in theology, hermeneutics, world religions, creation science, evangelism, presuppositional apologetics, church history, and expertise in sexual abuse in the church.

38:55

For details on their seminars and to request a speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.

39:01

Striving to make today an eternal day for the glory of God. Okay, so, Vincent, we're going to do another giveaway.

39:09

A Bible giveaway. You didn't win the last one, did you?

39:15

I never win, but that's okay. I have probably about 50 Bibles, so...

39:21

But you don't have a preacher's Bible. I do not. You do not. So that would complete my collection.

39:27

If I wanted to enter this, how would I do that? Well, here's how you would do it. In the show notes is a link to write a review for us on iTunes.

39:39

So the two ways you can enter is to write a review in iTunes. The second would be to email us at info at strivingforeternity .org.

39:50

Info at strivingforeternity .org. And if you do that, you will be able to enter into the contest.

40:01

Now, what we're going to do, because last time we did this, we had 12 ,000,

40:08

I think, entries by people who were just sharing the podcast. So we're going to kind of give you guys better options.

40:16

You're going to get a better chance to win. And what you do is just... It's going to be the number of people who write a review on iTunes for us about The Wrap Report.

40:27

Or you can email us. You can email us and say, hey, I got a question on a topic that I want you guys to cover.

40:34

Or email us and just tell us what you think of the podcast. Info at strivingforeternity .org.

40:40

And let us know what you think of the podcast. Are we doing a good job? Are we not doing a good job? Ways we can improve?

40:45

There's always ways to improve. It's me. Come on. But since there's only 10 people listening, hey, it's not a problem.

40:52

I won't feel too bad about how many... I won't get hundreds of things to have to improve.

40:59

No, the reality is that if you email us, we will enter your name into the drawing.

41:06

If you write a review, we'll enter your name into the drawing. And that way, you will be able to be entered.

41:13

That's going to mean that this is going to be a smaller pool and you get a better chance to win.

41:21

You also have to be... Or we want to encourage you, at least, to be following us on Twitter at AndrewRappaport on Twitter.

41:30

Follow us on Facebook at the Striving Fraternity Ministries page. And we encourage you, please, please subscribe to The Rappaport.

41:41

Share The Rappaport with others. Hashtag Rappaport when you do it.

41:47

That's rap with two Ps, by the way. But the way to enter is to write a review for us on iTunes and to email us.

41:55

Let us know what you think or some topics you want us to cover. Also, I'm going to let you guys know something.

42:02

This will run for the month of June. So July 1st, we'll announce a winner.

42:08

This weekend at Equip Ohio in Cleveland, Ohio, I will have a

42:16

Preacher's Bible for people to take a look at. But I want to give one other thing for our listeners.

42:22

If you have been thinking about getting the book, What Do We Believe?, we are going to be giving a coupon code just for you.

42:32

It is JUNE2018. All lowercase letters. Actually, I think either way works.

42:39

But JUNE2018. No spaces. All together. So if you go to the strivingforeternity .org

42:47

store and get the book, What Do We Believe?,

42:53

you basically are going to get free shipping. You're going to get $5 off. That's going to give you the book with basically free shipping.

43:00

So put in the coupon code. Put JUNE2018 and you will be able to get the book,

43:09

What Do We Believe? So that's going to be just for you who listen to this podcast.

43:16

We're putting that out there. So we'll be announcing this throughout the month of June on our weekly podcast. But I want to encourage you guys to go and do that.

43:24

If you haven't gotten that book, we heard Todd give a promo about it earlier.

43:31

But it is a book on systematic theology. It's going to cover some basic topics in theology.

43:39

I have a copy right here. Let me give you the rundown. It covers what is the

43:45

Christian view of authority. It's going to deal with the Bible. How we see it as an authority. Chapter 2 is going to deal with something that anyone that does any evangelism has to deal with.

43:56

And that is the thing of biblical reliability. Is the Bible reliable?

44:01

Has it been edited? We hear this over and over on the streets. Most people that deal with this topic deal with it for seminary students or people who like to study textual criticism.

44:12

One of the things I did was bring that down to a lay level so anyone can understand the issues.

44:18

Because the reason it's such an issue is a man, Bart Ehrman, who understands the technical issue, wrote books for the masses to try to make it very easy to understand.

44:27

But he criticizes what scripture actually would hold when it comes to textual criticism.

44:34

He tries to argue against it. And we end up seeing that a lot of his arguments are well logical fallacies.

44:42

Because he makes statements and makes conclusions that aren't necessarily the only conclusion to the statements he makes.

44:51

We'll deal with the topic of God. Can you prove the Trinity? How would you argue for the

44:57

Trinity? That is an essential doctrine. And it really rests on who Jesus Christ is.

45:02

So there's a chapter on Jesus Christ, his deity, his humanity. Big issue that people struggle with is sin.

45:09

How sinful are we? What's the extent of sin? That covers it. There's going to be a chapter from Anthony Silvestro on creation, fall, and the promise.

45:18

That's from his book on the origin of kinds, which you can also get at the Striving for Eternity store while you pick up What Do We Believe?

45:27

There's a chapter on salvation that will teach what we discussed today, that you cannot lose your salvation.

45:33

There's a chapter on the church, going through the history of the word church and how the church changed.

45:39

If you heard me speak earlier in this podcast about the invisible and visible church, the local and universal church, that's going to be explained in that chapter.

45:50

What is the eternal state? Where are we headed? All that's going to be covered in this book, What Do We Believe?

45:56

So I encourage you to pick up a copy when you go out to strivingforeternity .org. Pick that up today.

46:06

We're going to end probably a little early, Vincent, but I do want to close with some thoughts on the idea of losing your salvation.

46:15

I want to ask you a question. Me too. Okay, go ahead. You can ask me a question. Why do you think that the issue of what some would say eternal security or perseverance of saints, why is that such an essential doctrine for Christian belief?

46:34

And I'm going to ask it in two ways. One, why is it important doctrinally? And two, for the

46:39

Christian, why is it important as far as practice? Well, from my perspective, to imply that it's in the hands of fallible, sinful, fallen mankind to decide whether or not they should be saved or can be saved, it just to me lessens and cheapens what

47:09

Christ did on the cross for His people, for the people that He died for, for the elect.

47:15

If you believe that you could lose your salvation, would that change the way you live your

47:21

Christian life? I mean,

47:27

I think it would bring you to a point of living in fear that, what if I did something that's so bad?

47:34

Well, yeah, either you would live in fear or you would just give up altogether. Because I think mankind realizes that after a while, you're going to realize,

47:46

I just fall short. I just sin. I mean, man knows he sins, and it's just going to lead to, well, why even bother?

47:54

Yeah, I mean, the reality that we end up seeing is that there are people who believe you can lose your salvation.

48:02

And when you have that thinking, it ends up being something where, what if I did something that was really bad?

48:11

I mean, we all know that people continue to sin, even as believers, and yet we see that people lack the assurance of salvation.

48:23

And so if it's possible to lack assurance, then the reality is there's a case that could be made that if you think you could lose your salvation, and at some point you sin and you lack that assurance, you're going to think you lost salvation.

48:44

And then I think, yeah, like you said, you may give up, especially if you read the Hebrew 6 passage and think it's impossible to ever get saved again.

48:53

That's a very powerful passage right there. I mean, there's a lot of people we deal with that think you can lose your salvation and then come back to it.

49:00

They don't mention that very much that once you say, you know, that's it. There's no coming back.

49:07

They want to use that passage, but they just ignore the fact that, oh, well, then it's impossible.

49:14

I mean, that's what it says there in verse 4. For it is impossible.

49:21

Well, if it's impossible, then it's impossible. That's pretty strong wording right there, and they just gloss over that.

49:28

Yeah. Yeah. The other thing I would say, though, especially to people,

49:35

I think, in that time, they, you know, and I am, I will say,

49:40

I am a cessationist. I'm not a hard cessationist, but I think a lot of the people in that time that this was being discussed, though, was they probably did see quite a few of the miracles being described.

49:53

I wouldn't imagine they saw things that we don't exactly see today. So, they saw maybe some of the tasting that they saw was things that are not normative, you know, perhaps today.

50:04

So, I just wanted to throw that out there a little. When you say you're a cessationist, it means that you believe that some of the spiritual gifts have ceased.

50:14

Yeah, I think they're assigned gifts for the foundation of the church. Correct. Not that we don't have gifts from the

50:20

Holy Spirit, because, yes, I do believe this Holy Spirit gives us each gifts. And we still believe in miracles for today.

50:26

But that gifting has ceased, and I think the reason you're bringing that up is, and I'll emphasize it even more.

50:35

Picture the fact that Judas walked with Christ for three years, seeing

50:42

Him do all those miracles, walked with God, and still denied Him.

50:47

The Pharisees who knew the Scriptures saw Christ, knew

50:52

His claims, and denied Him. I think the reality is that when you had all those miracles in front of you and still denied.

51:02

I mean, Christ said, if Sodom and Gomorrah saw what you saw, they would have repented in ashes.

51:10

And it's amazing to see here, you have people who don't have those sort of things.

51:17

Well, if people saw that and rejected, I mean, how could, when you see

51:23

God walking on earth, and you reject that, how could you ever be saved? I really think that's a strong argument.

51:30

Exactly. That just tells you who's doing the saving, really. Exactly. And that's really the thing that you have to get into in looking at it.

51:39

I remember when I was in college, and I went to a Bible study. And I, granted,

51:45

I didn't grow up in the church, so I didn't know these doctrinal things. And I remember the guy that was doing the

51:53

Bible study, McGlynn was his name. And Mr. McGlynn was teaching, and I still remember sitting in his living room.

52:02

His wife used to cook and invite all the college students over. Every other Friday night, we'd go over there.

52:08

She would cook, and then we'd have a Bible study. And he was teaching, and he got to a passage, and he knew there were different people in the room that had different beliefs.

52:18

And he said, I don't want to get into debating whether you can lose your salvation or not.

52:24

I want to say what this passage teaches, and avoid arguing for people who believe that you can lose your salvation to get into that argument from this passage.

52:32

I had never heard that before. And he's explaining what the text says, and I said, wait a minute.

52:38

Because one person said, who disagreed with the passage, and said that he believes it's not teaching what it taught, because he thought you could lose your salvation.

52:46

And I said, look, maybe I'm confused here. I never heard this before, but I'm confused.

52:53

If God saved us, how could we lose that?

53:00

And that was one of those things where it seemed like just a clear thing for me to ask. And several people came up to me and said, that nailed it.

53:09

I mean, that's it. It's who's the source of our salvation, as we dealt with, as it says in Philippians.

53:14

He's the author and the finisher. He's not just the author, and he's not just the finisher.

53:21

He's the author and the finisher of our faith. It means he starts it, and he ends it.

53:28

And if somebody doesn't continue in the faith, it only exposes they were never of the faith.

53:34

Yep, never of it. So, Andrew, how do we get in the faith? Can you tell me what the gospel is real fast?

53:41

Well, we could do that with a game. That sounds cool.

53:54

All right. So, Vincent, the way we're playing this game, as you're well aware, you're going to give me something that I have to transition to the gospel with.

54:04

I would say, because I'm looking at it, how about golf balls? Golf balls. Okay. So, there are certain sports that certain people can play and certain ones that people shouldn't.

54:15

Golf is not one I should play. I played golf once, where I actually played like real golf, not miniature golf, but real golf.

54:23

And I played for a charity, and it was 100 rounds of golf.

54:29

I actually made it to only 92 holes. They were all laughing at me because I would swing and hit the ball.

54:36

It would go in the woods, and I never found my ball. I found lots of other balls in the woods.

54:43

So, I just picked up the other balls. They were raptured. That's all. Yeah. I went out with a dozen golf balls, and by lunch,

54:51

I came back with four dozen balls. And everyone was cracking up that I'm the only one that came back with more golf balls than I went out with.

54:59

And the reason was because I just kept picking up these others. So, 92 rounds or holes of golf, and then we had a three -and -a -half -hour dinner.

55:12

Now, here's what ended up happening. I remember this, and I always think of golf.

55:18

And when I think of golf balls, I think of this event because here's what happened. I was sitting at dinner. Now, have you ever had the experience when you did something with your body that you overused and muscles that never got used before, and then you just sat for a long period of time?

55:36

I did that. So, a whole day, we started at like 7 in the morning, went through to like 6 at night playing golf.

55:45

My body had muscles that never were used for golf, and I just was using muscles that hadn't been used.

55:54

Then I sat for dinner, and my body stiffened up. And the reality is that as I stiffened,

56:02

I mean, we sat there. By the time I got up for dinner, I couldn't get up. I was so stiff. It's amazing how even though I was moving around all day, just sitting, my whole body stiffened up.

56:17

And the reality is that we end up having that because our body is just, it's like it's rebelling.

56:28

Against the fact that these muscles were overused, and it needs to heal.

56:35

But the reality is, there's a reason that happens. That happens because our body is not anymore designed to last forever.

56:46

Our body is failing, as many of us who age know that. There's a reason our body fails.

56:51

There's a reason we suffer these things, or the reason we feel that stiffness at times. We feel parts of our bodies that don't work as well.

56:58

It is because one person who broke God's law, Adam, when he was in the garden, violated

57:05

God's law. And as our federal head brought sin into humanity. That sounds horrible.

57:12

And why should I be responsible for what he did? Well, I'm not. He brought sin into humanity, and the curse of sin into the universe.

57:22

But the reality is, I sin. I break God's law. I don't have to blame him. I do it.

57:28

And so, I'm going to be judged by the sin that I do. But the good news is, there is a way of escape.

57:34

God himself came to earth as a man and died on a cross that I could be set free.

57:40

If I turn from trusting myself, or my good works, and trust what

57:46

Jesus Christ did on the cross, I could be set free. The payment of sin would be made, as we talked about earlier in this podcast.

57:54

So, when I think of golf balls, I think about this time where I ended up playing a lot of golf, and having my body stiffen up because of the curse of sin.

58:07

But the thing that I rejoice in is the fact that though it stiffened up that day, there is a day coming that I will sit at the feet of Christ, and my body will be glorified.

58:17

And I will sit at his feet, and learn from him, and be in his presence, and never suffer the consequence of sin again.

58:26

To never suffer the curse of sin. Never have suffering, starvation, any of that.

58:33

Because in there, we will be with Christ. That's what I would say is how I transition from golf balls to the gospel.

58:40

And that is the gospel message. Amen. We'll play a few rounds in heaven, bro.

58:45

Yeah, maybe in heaven. I might be able to play golf if we play there. Just thinking.

58:53

After we praise God for 10 ,000 years. Or so. So, listen, folks, we're glad.

59:00

I hope you subscribe to The Wrap Report. We have some episodes coming up soon.

59:06

We're going to be dealing with some issues. We have an episode that will be coming up. I don't know if it's going to be next week or afterwards.

59:13

We're going to be dealing with some sensitive issues. It's going to be, hopefully, a more fun one, too.

59:19

It will be special. I can't tell you why. But that's going to be coming up on looking at just the perspective of our culture.

59:28

We're going to be dealing with different topics. I'm probably going to be having some different pastors come together and discuss some things.

59:35

And, you know, this is one of many podcasts you can listen to on the Christian Podcast Community.

59:41

It is a community of podcasters where we are trying to work together to promote others.

59:48

You can listen to The Wrap Report. There's also Theology Answers is out there.

59:54

Theology Gals is coming soon. And also, Justin Peters is going to be coming.

01:00:01

We're trying to encourage. One of the guys has named his podcast Justin Rocks. We're going to see if Justin will allow us to continue that.

01:00:10

But Justin Peters will be coming soon, probably next, probably this month or next. So be looking for that.

01:00:17

And we have a lot more coming. Been talking to some different people, some very well -known speakers who are not podcasters yet.

01:00:25

And so one of the things is if you are seeking to be a podcaster, you could go to Christian Podcast Community.

01:00:31

Maybe you have a podcast and you would like it to have a larger audience. Well, come to Christian Podcasters, the

01:00:37

Christian Podcasting Community. You can go to ChristianPodcastingCommunity .org. That'll get you to a page where you can listen to the current podcasts or you can become one.

01:00:48

There'll be a form there. We'll get in touch with you. And we would, well, we're going to interview you, actually.

01:00:54

We're going to check out your podcast and see if you'd be a good fit. And so we are going to be trying to encourage folks to be podcasting, producing good

01:01:04

Christian podcasts. If you aren't part of our community but still want to learn how to improve on podcasting, on Facebook, we have a group,

01:01:12

Christian Podcast Community. And there we discuss ways to improve your podcast, but you don't necessarily have to be part of our community.

01:01:24

So it'd be something you could check out. So be listening. We're going to have a couple of some good episodes coming up.

01:01:31

And we're going to be having some of the daily ones.

01:01:37

I encourage you to listen. This week's daily is going to be dealing on judging. Should you judge or not?

01:01:44

So get the two -minute daily. So in two minutes every day, you can get a daily dose of rap report.

01:01:53

Would you consider donating to Striving for Eternity? This ministry is one that tries to reach out to some of those smaller churches that most people, most speakers want to avoid.

01:02:07

But by our monthly donors, it allows us to get into smaller churches and provide for them the seminars and conferences that usually only larger churches can do.

01:02:17

We can do that because we have monthly supporters who on a regular basis support us so we could support others.

01:02:24

Would you consider being one of our monthly supporters today? You can go to strivingforeternity .org

01:02:32

slash donate and set up for a monthly donation today. Your donation helps us to be able to spread the gospel around the world, to be able to disciple others, and to provide resources for churches and people who are struggling to grow deeper in God's word.

01:02:52

Consider donating today at strivingforeternity .org slash donate.

01:02:57

We thank you very much for your consideration. Another way you could donate is go to the show notes and you could be a

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01:03:13

This podcast is part of the Striving for Eternity ministry. For more content or to request a speaker or seminar to your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.