Acts part 2- Laborers' Podcast

Welcome to the laborers podcast. Thank you for joining us tonight. We are going to be looking at the book of Acts part two.

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Now, let's join our laborers for tonight's broadcast.

Welcome. Welcome. Welcome to the laborers podcast. Thank you for joining us. We're excited that you're here. Thank you for your support. Hey guys, how you doing? Are you seeing these things coming across us?

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Find them on Facebook pray for them support them. They're going out to the University of Tennessee and talking to college students and we're so thankful for Matt and his ministry team there. It's wonderful wonderful what they're doing.

Tonight we're going to talk about acts. Let's jump into it. Acts is an interesting book. Some people want to pull out Literal Application. But we talked about before how we need to look at it as as more historical and not necessarily as practical application.

So we want to look at some of the these chapters a lot of question for neat each chapter. If you have a question for max, please leave in the comments we have. The reform Berean is on.

My brother.

I.

Got a big day. He's from Darryl King's. He's from Darryl King's network. Nice.

Thank you for joining us reformery and we're if anybody has any questions about acts that we don't touch on feel free to put in. The comments. Absolutely. We will try to address it and.

And what if I can say it? Yeah to the reform Bre and I appreciate you watching the other day at the unveil with Brother Austin and Pastor Holyfield, I appreciate your input and your attendance. Thank you, sir.

I.

Watch that to Rob or John. Y 'all did another great job. Folks gonna be tuning in to that. To God be the glory.

So I thought I'm thinking correctly we ended on chapter 4 and we want to start on chapter 5. So tonight question from comes from chapter 5 verses 1 through 11 I've heard. And I still got the the CD cassette from a church discipline conference, they they do a different topic, of course each year, but this comes from a church discipline conference that particular year and and I heard one of the speakers talk about this verse and also probably read it in a book that they they use this passage as a Defense of church discipline or or what may happen as Evidence when church discipline as practiced.

So just a brief overview you have and most of you are probably familiar with what happened you have an Ananias and Sapphira who lied to the Holy Spirit and Of course were both struck down by the Holy Spirit and and their bodies were carried out but then you have in verse Verse 14 of chapter 5 and all the more believers in the Lord Multitudes of men and women were constantly added to their number.

So there was there was a fear that come over from the people because of what the Holy Spirit did. But then you have this increase in number and and the argument was well when you practice church discipline.

This is a result. You may have an increase in number. So what do you guys think if you're teaching preaching on church discipline? Would you use this passage?

This passage. Probably not this passage. Okay. But I think that if you're not practicing church discipline as a congregation, you're not walking in obedience to Christ. Yeah.

If.

If nothing else is listed in Scripture as being just right and holy so we are to. We ought to be people who practice churches, I think. Matthew. Oh.

Oh.

Somebody's better memory than me. 18 18 perhaps. Is that what he says? Bring a finger With you. Talk to your brother and if you can't be persuaded then go take one person on by to go to him. Yeah, I think that's as good as example of church discipline New Testament and if nothing else is a step-by-step procedure of how you ought to do it, right?

And this in a case if I were going to use a verse of Scripture I would use one that lists the steps, you know in a way that are applicable and or timeless as opposed to an account which I mean, I believe is a hundred percent a hundred percent accurate you understand, but I Don't know that.

That that's descriptive manner of how church disciplines played out.

Modeling. And we don't really see the church applying to discipline in this particular situation either way. Right. It's a supernatural outworking of the Holy Spirit. Which is not unusual in acts for the Holy Spirit to get involved, right.

So. Not that he's not involved, but you know. Not merely working through the church. I mean, you know, he. Listen last last time I checked we're not allowed to kill anybody in church, right? I'm just saying so I don't see how that could be church discipline.

That's right, yeah. In to I Think it. It is like John said, I think the most direct and practical. The scripture of church discipline would be there in Matthew 18 however.

It.

In being Explained and talked about what is the purpose of church discipline number one is to reconcile. I mean you can see in first Corinthians five, right? All you know calls out on the carpet and says he's already made the judgment and then but we Understand that the purpose of church discipline is ultimately reconciliation and the reality of salvation and the relationship between brothers and sisters in Christ.

Long term. Because of the work of the Holy Spirit will produce reconciliation. Otherwise, it's a way of identifying. This may sound strong it's a way of identifying. False professors, I mean if a person.

Continually, I mean again, we have we see the gamut in the scripture we see in first John, right? Love. We love our brothers and if a man say he hates His brother the love of God is not in him. And what does love cause us to do.

Jumping back over back to Ephesians again. It's all through the scriptures be kind one to another tender-hearted forgiving one another even as God for Christ's sake. Also has forgiven you we see this but it's important that we take the whole Council of God Into consideration when we think about church discipline and we don't just see the negative aspects.

But we understand that what God has laid out in his word. The long-term goal is ultimately a positive aspect and then there's in this passage the fear of God. That that says hey, you need to really understand something.

You may slip by with me with man. But you ain't gonna slip by on God. God knows what what is up and he knows how to take care of what's going on.

Right.

Yeah, I think that's a perfect example of the direction or what we can take out of this. This may not be a an example or a go-to passage playbook for church discipline. However, those are the kind of principles that we can learn from this that are related to church discipline.

Sure, you know fear the Lord. Thanks. Um, if if church discipline is practiced, you know There's gonna be a sense of all sense of fear. And and it also depends on the circumstance of your church if if you have a membership that's never heard of church discipline It's gonna rock their world.

Yeah. And then you want to start to implement it in your church. So there there's you're gonna have that to deal with but if you begin to practice church discipline You may have some fall-off before you have some increase.

I think that you're. You're 100 correct. The the thing that I would take away from this is that the fear of the Lord is healthy in the church. Man, the church grew because of.

What.

Obviously, I mean that the big story is upper stories. As brother Jonathan says all time is the Lord's calling people out and saving them right there. Obviously, that's how the church grows, but the church was growing at a rate that was exponential because of The persecution on the church whether we like to admit it or not.

Whenever the world turns the heat up the church bronze the church burns brighter and whenever The there's purity in the church It just continues to be better. For instance most ministries that I've seen that don't practice church discipline are because from the top down there's There's a lack of integrity in the leadership.

Amen. And You're not going to get up and teach on discipline and integrity and ethics and holiness If your life has holes all in it all over the place, right?

If you're fear to get called out yourself, yep, exactly.

And.

Truthfully the fear that a lot of the people have whenever you practice Matthew chapter 18 discipline is that Their their neighbors and family members will understand or will hear about what whatever is going on.

And that's one of the reasons why they would would stop whatever actions that you brought before them. And even that's not a good enough reason you ought to be afraid of the Lord. You ought to be ashamed before God if there's something that you get called out on.

Amen.

I was gonna piggyback on what Claude said because when I first looked at these two passages Thinking about Matthew 18 and as Claude said the ultimate goal of church discipline being Reconciliation. I didn't really see the correlation because obviously an act there's no Attempt at reconciliation.

There's just immediate death, but it was interesting I was listening to a sermon a couple days ago by John MacArthur. He wasn't talking about church discipline, but he Brought up this passage in act and he Discussed it and I said we look and see the early church.

They were Growing they were doing well thriving and then you have this incident where sin is brought into the church and There could have been the potential for that sin within the church to grow and ultimately impact What the church was Experiencing and doing.

Yeah, so God just cut that off as a way to Keep the church pure. And the same instance with the church discipline laid out in Matthew 18 Again, the goal was to reconcile that person To brothers and sisters and bring them back in the church.

But beyond that again, it's to keep the church pure Keep that sin out of the church and he made a good point that ultimately the purity of the church is a good testimony of The validity of the gospel if we've got the church proclaiming the gospel Proclaiming that they have been transformed by the power of the gospel Yet we see unrepentant sin rampant in the church.

What kind of testimony is that? To the world. We can look at both these passages and again, I Think what everybody said is correct when we're looking at it as a process today. We need to go to Matthew 18.

We can look at the two passages as Pointing us to the importance of the purity and keeping sin out of the church.

Yeah, we see that explicitly in like, you know, first Corinthians 5 13 you know purged evil person from among you. Or even like, you know, like first that first Timothy 1 I don't remember exactly which verse but it's talking about him and ace and Alexander, you know.

Where Paul says that he hands them over to Satan? You know for so that they can learn not to blaspheme. You know, I think the way that he lays that out is so like epic. Because you know it it's it's so like, you know.

We have to make sure.

That.

We are teaching these people that when they are doing something wrong and they keep doing it Unrepentantly that doesn't belong in the house of God. Amen. Yeah, you know.

Well, I think that you see an example in Acts of the Lord of the Lord looking after his church right. As brother Matt was saying that about how you would it didn't look like an example of Reconciliation but in a sense the church is just being born, right?

The church is just being found if we can't have bad. We can't have a bad foundation of this thing. It started off the ground and I was thinking about how this looked like Korah in the Old Testament. And how there was disobedience in the Exodus and God just opened the earth and swallowed a bunch of people.

Yeah, actually good point to where it was like look everybody ever told you with the exception of Joshua and Caleb you're not even going into the promised land because you know you to to bent bound and bent on Egypt, right and.

That's I think. I think that you see that happen in a New Testament Translation. Our New Testament example with an isis fire.

You see my church is going through 1st Samuel right now verse by verse and we've been working through The the sons of Eli. And so we've been talking through Eli and his sons who were wretched people so much so that actually says in first Samuel that God hated them.

Which is strong language that sure Eli's the priest. Yeah, he should of all people he should have had this figured out he should have had this in order but he doesn't and It gets to a point where they are profaning the The order of things in the temple.

I'm not sorry. It's not the temple temple hasn't been built yet but in the the holy place in the tabernacle and So God kills them in battle and has the Philistines take the Ark of the Covenant back to their camp and it was it was a picture of Just of God turning them over like we see in in Romans 1 that God gave them up.

That it's almost it's just kind of the natural consequences of of the rebellion.

So you're saying it's like God of the Old Testament. It's the same God of the New Testament.

I.

Think.

I.

Think the most God of the Old Testament thing ever written is in the book of Luke when Jesus says depart from me into everlasting fire man. That's got to be more quote God of the Old Testament than anything actually in the Old Testament.

Right.

But I think with the nice and Sapphire in light of Eli and Samuel. Is it's an extreme? This is the gravity of how God views Our worship the the way we operate as the people of God. Yeah, it talks in Hebrews 12 that you have not come to a mountain that may be touched.

But you have come to Mount Zion you have come to myriads of angels. And well, we might we might differ on how to apply that exactly. There is weight when the when the church comes to gather when we worship the risen Christ.

There is weight in that and I think a nice and Sapphira shows the extreme of when we disregard that. When it's just the thing that we do.

Mmm, man, that's good stuff right there. Because it's all before the face of God. Exactly.

Amen, exactly.

Quorum day.

So and I appreciate you bringing that up Matt and and all the conversation that happened after that. That's it's a beautiful thing to see that we can. Bring. What principle we can bring out of this passage is that we can we can see?

The mind of the mind of the Holy Spirit and how he views his church. Yeah, I.

Think God purifies his church and sometimes it's through church this discipline, you know through his church. But there are other means right. And I think this is just one of those other means.

What I think I heard Tyler know we say is that they need to stay hitched. Let's keep them pitched. All right. Let's move on to number two chapter 6 and in the same in the same way. And this has been my background maybe some of yours as well.

We want to use this passage. Concerning deacons and how we choose deacons. Should we use this passage and in choosing deacons in the church. Church leaders pastors here.

And.

And how does it talk about? Disciples and discipleship in this passage. So would you use this in your church?

Let me do. Can I do my cloud? Yeah, yes.

If I if I can do my cloth praise the Lord.

Well, let me do my cloud roll tide. Matt shakes his head. So, I think yes, yes, we do apply this particularly I think In practice here. This is a one of those places where yes, the book of Acts is a historic historical narrative.

However, there are principles that should be applied to the before the New Testament Church. And this is a very good principle that that for example Like like how they were how the deacons were chosen notice.

They were. They were chosen and then presented to the congregation. Right. That's what it says. Doesn't it the twelve some in the multitude of the disciples and said it's not desirable. They say that and and so they presented these men and the saying please the whole multi multitude and they chose Stephen a man full of faith and the Holy Spirit Philip Procurus Nicanor Timon Parmenas Nicholas a proselyte from Antioch whom they said before the Apostles and when they prayed they laid hands on them.

No special power was conferred upon them by the laying on of hands, but that was somewhat of an affirmation public affirmation of these men being Ready for ministry and what does the New Testament teach us about deacons in first Timothy, right?

A deacon should be tried tested proven. And then and then when they when they are proven and they've attained for themselves a good name. It's what the scripture says. So I think very principally. Yes, we apply this practice.

It's good because it prevents like So let's say the pastor and the elders. You know, they they don't just put somebody in this position of deacon that they like they're not, you know, they're not they're not trying to build a.

Call just a call right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's least likely to disagree with my decisions.

That's exactly right. You want people you want people that are willing to and by the way. There's a difference between the office of elder and deacon. If we all we all know that I know we all know that but just so that folks are watching.

But the deacons have a very important role when it comes to carrying out Function in the church, that's why it's that's why it's set aside as a specific office bishops and deacons or elders and deacons interchangeable those terms are used but very very important and What a lot of folks fail to understand when you really start to study it out.

Deacons are really When you start looking at the at the function in the role throughout the scriptures. They are really like an extension of a sense It of the elders. They're a great help and an aid to the elders of the congregation so that the elders can Perform the function that they are called to do which is to give themselves to prayer in the ministry of the word.

So, you know a lot of folks think the the old-time Baptists say, you know, there's basically the deacons run the church. No, the deacons serve the church I think and serve the elders. The elders preach and teach the gospel the Word of God to the people and the body.

Itself functions as a whole successfully limping along the way.

Let me ask you something guys. In light of that if the deacons serve the church, they don't run the church. Does the ordination of deacons sometimes undermine that?

How so right?

I'm I'm just I'm thinking in terms of just the elitist mindset that a lot of churches have had that. We've got a title. We've got an office. Is that sometimes counterproductive to lift up these guys in the church?

I'm gonna make a statement and give it to somebody who has an office of deacons in their church more than ours but one of the things that I would say is that whenever you take a Position With it should come a measure of accountability for that position.

Amen, if you're going to be put in a position like any kind of leadership. Let's just call deacons leaders and just be done with it, right? Because whether they be. Whether they be people who help with whatever financial decisions going to the church or whether there are people who help with security I don't really care and in a moment They're gonna be of of them is going to be asked for them to use their best sense and knowledge that they have.

To address a situation and if you're gonna do that, then you first of all, you know who they are and they need to be vetted. But they also need to be held accountable for that and the easiest way to do that is to make the position.

Something that comes with accountability therefore whenever you take that position, you know what you're taking and it doesn't change. From person to person right if you say brother Tyler, I want you to become the Sunday school Superintendent first thing you should be asking.

What does the Sunday school superintendent do? Orders all the material and make sure the material is Christ honoring is biblically centered. It isn't some knuckle-doodle-whack job. That we bought off of eBay that it had that the source where you get it from is accurate, right?

Like the Church of God publishing house. Anyway.

The.

Point is is that you you would know what your job is and then if if all the sudden Sunday school material came in It didn't it didn't make the the cut and you put it out there. Then who would be the one who has to answer for it?

Right. It's all about structure. Accountability honest open and trustworthy ministry.

Okay, I was just curious because I have seen ordination change people and not for the better.

I'm not saying it came. I'm just saying that.

Ideally, but that I think that speaks to other problems that are going on in the church. Yeah, you know are they even defining what a deacon's role actually is, you know? Because there might be some misconceptions among the congregation.

As to what a deacon even is. I remember when I was younger, you know, I thought a deacon is just another type of pastor. They run the church. It's like you guys are saying, you know, and so, you know, you you saw deacons as like these.

People that were like somehow higher than you. When in reality, we're all brothers and sisters who are trying to serve and that's that's exactly what a deacon is doing it's just He has that special office because he has he is qualified he has shown himself to be dependable to be Trust, I mean, you know at first Timothy three, right?

He has met those qualifications. So You know, we can't people have a tendency to lift up human beings rather than God and That's what happens sometimes with deacons or elders, right or whoever but we have to bring the church back to reality that hey.

We're all brothers and sisters who are fallible. And we're all ultimately serving God in different functions. But the only one that we should be upholding like that is God himself. Not the pastors not the deacons not the Sunday school teacher.

Not whoever.

That's right. That's right. I think in my experience I.

Think You see a pretty big difference in churches.

A.

Plurality of elders versus a single pastor. Single pastor, I think there's a much bigger danger of blurring the line of what the responsibility of the beacon is because they want to. Maybe even feel like they need to not out of any wrong motive necessary do more than what their Position biblically warrants because yep single pastor in most instances is trying to do too much a man beyond their Responsibility as well.

I think what Claude pointed to and I think we can kind of miss in this passage and again something I didn't understand for the longest time, but what. Having a good solid group of deacons breathe the elders up to be in prayer and ministry of the word that is their focus.

And again Growing up in southern Baptist churches all my life. You just expect the preacher to Be visiting everybody in the hospital or by home making phone calls doing it all and yeah, that's. That's not his Biblical job description.

Not that they can't do that one time warrants, but that's why scripture sets out These different positions to be able to handle those different functions in the church.

And I mean we truly when you want if you want to do and be analogous we can be analogous and go back to the Old Testament. Jethro Moses father-in-law told him Thou doest take too much upon upon us thyself.

It was in the King James. When he said that's why he said he said the 70 elders. He said let them let them look out and over over oversee these things as well. The big matters they can bring to you. But don't try like Matt said that you know that the elders shouldn't try to do everything themselves.

God. God has said God knows what he is doing. That's right.

Let's look at this verse. I want I want to ask brother Rob because you don't get to do a lot of this. I'm with those a curveball Rob.

Is there permission? Oh careful. Raising your hand your cameras moving.

Y 'all could beat the pre-show could see the shenanigans. So a while ago, I said that Acts chapter 5 was a description of what had happened, right? But the Matthew chapter 18 was a better example of church discipline, right?

Just to back that up not that I think that obviously whatever God did is right and and Acts chapter 5 I don't want y 'all think I'm drawing God into question here by no means. But one of the reasons why I say that this is an example that we should sit here to is look how systematic it is.

It looks like a procedure, right? We have the very beginning we see a problem. We need us we need to solve the problem, right? How is it that we suggest to solve the problem. When you look at these two things, can you describe to me?

And I feel like I might be fishing or soft tossing it. Do you see the difference there? Like if you were Trying to describe the difference between what is prescriptive and what is descriptive in this book.

I appreciate you using those terms.

Those are the terms that I forgot earlier descriptive and prescriptive is how we look at acts sometimes. Well, that kind of leads me to a question that I wanted to draw from or Propose as well because if you're a new believer, you're a new Christian.

You're you're just taking this on and you're directed to this passage. You're studying the topics of deacon, church polity and you're directed to this passage and you're looking at this with with new eyes with fresh.

Eyes.

And this is where they get Choosing deacons from. I guess my question from that Point of view would be. Okay, I don't exactly see a perfect parallel. So the the leaders here are the Apostles. Okay in the church you have the pastors the elders.

You don't have the term actual term deacon used. But you have the term those who serve at which Deacon means to serve so so that's where they draw it from but it's not an exact parallel. Because you're not using the same terminology and then in Claude brought up a word, too.

And I think you were hinting at it Claude people will use this as a reference or support for Elder led instead of elder ruled because they brought them before the congregation. And the congregation approved.

I don't know if that's exactly where you were going with it Claude, but um, you know, I Don't go ahead I could see where some people would use that as a as a reference or a support for elder led versus Elder ruled because they bring them before the congregation the congregation approved you you do see a Principal parallels that you were talking about, you know the the leadership in both aspects.

And this is kind of what you're getting at John you have the Apostles and the pastors there they're focusing on the word and Then you have the the deacons and in this case the servers who are ministering and serving the the church.

So They're not using the same terminology, but the same practice.

In those positions. Okay, so forget the terminology then look at the practice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I can see the same practice. Yeah, so.

Yeah.

It'd take too long if I ask it again, so we're asking a different way, but I think you answered my question anyway.

I appreciate that. Yeah, well and and I think it was brought up in in Acts chapter 5. It was more the the Holy Spirit Leading and directing this. It wasn't the the church members following Matthew 18 where they brought somebody.

You know. They went to them first and then they brought two or three with them and they didn't listen. Then they brought up to the church. And the church didn't kill him. This was this was a Holy Spirit deal all together.

Sure. Sure. That's right.

So yeah, I see the difference that you're talking about. So how does this help with discipleship? Yeah, that's the second part of the question. So I'm gonna ask you. My phone won't open up so I can read the question exactly.

Bear with me a technical difficulty. Here we go.

I've got it right here. Go ahead my brother.

So are you? Oh, go ahead. I want to ask you to say you have that question the number two.

That does this passage teach us about making disciples and discipleship.

So this is where this is where I saw that so you get a verse 7 the Word of God kept on spreading. Why did it keep on spreading? Well, they they put this they established this foundation. They put this in place where you have the Apostles the the leaders at this time.

They were able to focus And preaching and sharing the the gospel and the Word of God and laying that foundation and They didn't have to stretch themselves To where they were so thin because they were having to serve the tables.

They were able to focus on the word so therefore the result was a Number of disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith. So, I think if we are obeying God And this kind of goes back to to one of the points that I wanted to make in Acts chapter 5 One of the principles that we can pull out of this is we can't We can't Dogmatically say if we practice church discipline this will happen or if we do this this will happen.

We can't say this but what we can say in principle or in generality if we obey the Word of God God will bless His Word. His Word will not return void. So if Increasing our numbers is how he wants to bless us.

That's how he'll bless us if he wants to increase our faith if he wants to increase our knowledge. If he wants to increase our understanding of the Holy Spirit, whatever he wants to do in in that local body that's what he's gonna do and We we find ourselves in a position for him to bless us when we are obeying his Word.

And I think that's what's happening here they were obeying his Word they were being organized following the Holy Spirit and people were. Disciples were growing and even the priests were coming to faith.

It's good. Sweet. All right, Acts chapter 7. What was the role of the Holy Spirit in Acts 7 especially the stoning of Stephen?

My like hearing. I want to hear y 'all. I don't hear y 'all going on this. I'm Pentecostal. We talk on that.

So, what do you think. You might have any thoughts on the role of Holy Spirit here. Well first and foremost.

The Holy Spirit is interpreting the Old Testament To the to the Jews. That the Holy Spirit is bringing clarity and presenting Christ and him crucified through the history of Israel Starting with Starting with Egypt going back to the Exodus and Moses who was a rejected Savior Just as you have rejected Christ.

And so the Holy Spirit first and foremost brings clarity to what has been in order to show what is.

I.

Love it. I love it. And then Stephen goes straight from that into. They have resisted the Holy Spirit that this same Holy Spirit who preached Christ to them just then yes He says you stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears, which is very Old Testament.

That is all over the Old Testament.

It's up. It's him up.

That is that's Deuteronomy right there. We may stop calling you Tyler and just start calling you hitch. He says you are always resisting the Holy Spirit as your ancestors did. You do also. Which of the prophets did your ancestors not persecute?