August 29, 2024 Show with Roger Salter on “Augustinian Theologians Prior to the Reformation”

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Gary. But I am thrilled to welcome back one of my very favorite guests.

I have been interviewing this dear brother since the early 2000s, not long after I first launched

Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio in 2005 on WNYG Radio on Long Island, New York.

This dear brother's name is Roger Salter, a thoroughly Protestant, Cranmerian, and confessionally

Reformed Anglican minister. And today he's going to be addressing Augustinian theologians prior to the

Reformation, and we'll also be discussing which side of the Tiber River more faithfully carried the torch for Augustine in later centuries.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio, Roger Salter. Oh, and Roger, I'm sorry,

I have you on mute. There you go. There you go, Roger. Sorry about that.

Welcome back to the program, Roger. Well, it's lovely to be here, Chris. Did I jump in too soon?

No, you didn't. I had you on mute accidentally. I'm sorry about that. Oh, okay. Yes, it's a real delight to be with you,

Chris. Yes, it's probably even more of a delight for me to have you on the program.

Well, we are going to be discussing great men of God that existed prior to the

Reformation. Unlike the charge of many Roman Catholics, we do not believe that Christ's church was born in the year 1517 when

Martin Luther nailed the 95 Theses up to the door of the castle church in Wittenberg, Germany.

He was still a Roman Catholic, by the way, when he did that. But if you could, what is the general period of time that you are going to highlight where you are going to be paying honor to men of God who were

Augustinian and yet this is prior to the Reformation? What period of time are we speaking of?

Well, virtually the whole spread of time from the death of Augustine until the very edge of the

Reformation, I think, Chris. This is people over almost a couple of millennia, and there's a host of them.

There are just so many folk who were dedicated to the theology we called

Augustinian. Great. Well, start wherever you desire to begin. Okay.

Step in any time, Chris. But what I thought it would be very worthwhile to look at the disciples of Augustine who brought the truth of God to the church before the

Reformation, because we can say that there's never an era in the history of the church when

God's truth is not being proclaimed and faithfully witnessed to. And while I think of Augustine, our regarding of him as a great theological authority is not unqualified.

We know that Augustine had his flaws and misunderstandings, like all exponents of the

Word of God, and we believe it's Holy Scripture that is our supreme authority.

And all of us are at liberty to disagree with Augustine where we feel his thinking might be flawed.

But Augustine would have agreed that all true knowledge was to be found in the mind illumined by God, that constant reference to Holy Scripture, pondering

Holy Scripture deeply and slowly. I'm not in favor anymore of people reading as many chapters a day as they could.

We've got to go slowly through Scripture and thoughtfully and ponder everything that we see.

And at a given moment of reading, we know that we'll always discover more in even our more familiar passages, because the

Word of God is infinitely deep, and it brings rapture and joy and enlightenment to the heart, as well as conviction.

And whenever we need some sort of chastening or being aroused as to our ongoing sinfulness and inadequacy as believers, but he is a great companion in understanding

Holy Scripture. And as we say, there is no era in the history of the church since Augustine when truth has been extinguished.

There are always witnesses of very fine skill and insight who proclaim the

Word of God on behalf of the gospel. So I've selected some today.

I've also got an extra list, perhaps, of names I could mention, but I thought we would concentrate on about half a dozen.

Sounds great. Well, they're not necessarily in chronological order,

Chris, but they are men who…well, for instance, I'm going to start with John Collett, who was dean of St.

Paul's at the turn of the 16th century, and he was preaching the gospel before Luther was out of short pants.

He was preaching exactly what Luther would preach in England, and his exposition of Romans is thoroughly evangelical and performed well before the

Reformation. So, shall I just start with a quote of John Collett?

Okay, his commentary on Romans is brief but superb, and I'm just going to read one paragraph from it to introduce you to a very godly and thoroughly

Augustinian man. Augustinian, I mean somebody who declares the doctrines of grace fully and without withholding anything true, that it concerns the divine purpose of salvation on behalf of his elect.

And so this is what he says in Romans 9, Now St.

Paul himself, in brief and simple language, places all in the mere will and pleasure of God, so as for those alone to come to God whom he calls, whom he has foreordained, purposed, promised, elected, and predestinated.

This man, well before the ministry of Luther and well before Calvin's ministry and even the commencement of the

Reformation as we understand it, he goes on to say, We must carefully observe that in the apostles' writings, these words, purpose, promises, elect, and predestinate, mean the same thing, and that God's purpose among men is promise, election, and predestination are one and the same, and that those whom he has promised to call, and those whom in his purpose and resolution he has called, and those whom he has elected, and those whom he has predestined to this house and heritage are the same.

It's a very strong statement. Amen. Yes, it's a lovely one, and it brings great joy to the people of God, and I think it also attracts those who need to come to knowledge of God, that his purposes are eternal and infallible and permanent.

Amen. That's what we call it. And who would you like to continue on to now?

Yes, I need to say one other thing about John Collett. Henry VIII said he was the one advisor that he had that he would really trust and take notice of.

He didn't always obey his advice, but he said of all the advisors he had at court,

John Collett was the most able and the most trustworthy. He was a very, how can

I put it, a man of great integrity and attractive piety. So, that's

John Collett. So, King Henry VIII held him even in higher esteem than his friend

Thomas Cranmer. Well, earlier on, because Cranmer wasn't on the scene when

Collett was ministering, but yes, he admired both men, and both of them were in full agreement on the nature of the gospel and on the nature of the sovereignty of God in the dispensation of his salvation.

So, I underestimated John Collett for years. I got the impression he was semi -Pelagian, but he's certainly not, as you can see from that quotation.

Well, who's next? Yeah, sorry. That's all right. I just wanted to know who you were going to address next.

Okay. Alcuin of York, who died in 804, and he was a

York sherman, and he spent a lot of time as a monk and as an advisor on religious matters in York and searching the world,

Europe as it was at the time, for good books for the library in York.

I suspect that library is still intact, but he wanted the clergy, the monks, all those who ministered in any way to have access to the best possible theological books on doctrine and history that he could lay his hands on.

And in due course, Charlemagne, who was the emperor of the Roman Empire at the time, virtually made him his personal chaplain to himself and his family, and then to the diocese of York.

And he was somebody who I think must have been, for all of his godliness and wisdom and influence, been one of the founders of the concept of Europe.

There were so many countries and smaller areas that were part of Europe but not united, and I think that Alcuin must have been someone who had the godly purpose, outline, concept of what a godly

Europe could be, which it certainly isn't now. But anyway,

Alcuin was, again, just like John Collard, a man of strong Reformed conviction before the

Reformation, and so I'll read from his book, a commentary on the book of Revelation.

This is sort of the middle of a page, Chris, but he's talking about the election of God's people, and he says,

The Lord says through Isaiah to the church, Thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the

Lord hath spoken. Yet since many who have been overcome by the devil are called by this name, that's a good point to make.

How is it that promises to give only to those who overcome, if not because the gift, we the one by which we know those who are predestined to life in this heavenly city and have been chosen?

Here it is suitably said after that, which no man knoweth but he that receiveth it, as if he were saying, no one defends the dignity of the

Christian name by their life and manners, but the one who has gained it through divine predestination to eternal life.

For knowing the name of Christ is about keeping the commandments, while receiving it is traced back to the grace of divine predestination.

So we're seeing that these two men, well before the actual beginning of the

Reformation, are actually giving us an introduction to Reformation truth before the actual event arrived on the scene.

These men are absolutely convinced of what Augustine taught concerning the sovereignty of God and predestination.

They are all Augustinians. They refer to Augustine frequently.

He is their pattern as a theologian. As I say, he's not the supreme authority.

It is Holy Scripture that is that. And so these men stand with Augustine before the

Reformation, and there's a host of these men. I was looking up various ones, and I've got a list of about 30, and these men in various eras in the life of the church are proclaiming the truth, which of course runs counter to official

Roman Catholicism. So it shows that in the church there was certainly a freedom of speech that was taken and assumed by these men, even if their superiors or colleagues disagreed with them.

They were men of boldness, as well as men of piety and love of truth.

Amen. In fact, we're going to go to our first commercial break, so you could just remember where you left off, and we'll pick up where you left off when we return from the first commercial break.

And if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Roger Salter, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

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So please go to royaldiadem .com today and mention Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. I'm now back with Roger Salter, who is a thoroughly

Protestant, Cranmerian, and confessionally Reformed Anglican, and we are addressing

Augustinian theologians prior to the Reformation. And Roger, you could pick up where you left off.

Okay, Chris. Well, I'm going to refer now to someone who is regarded as the last of the

Church Fathers, and it is Bernard of Clairvaux.

His dates are 1090 to 1153. And after Augustine, Luther and Calvin quote him more than any other source.

Luther loved Bernard of Clairvaux. Calvin's theology and Bernard's matched each other perfectly well.

There are good books on the spirituality, if I can put it like that, on Calvin and Clairvaux comparing them, and it's just how close they were to each other in their theology and their understanding of the doctrines of grace.

So Bernard of Clairvaux, a marvelous man, and the best book that comments on Clairvaux—I've not got any quotes direct from him—but the best book that I know of on Bernard of Clairvaux, subtitled

Theologian of the Cross, is by Antony Lane. Are you there,

Roger? Roger, are you there?

You not hear me? Well, now I do, yeah. Ah, okay. Sorry. I'm turning now to Bernard of Clairvaux, and his dates are 1090 to 1153.

And Luther and Calvin, after quoting Augustine copiously, quoted more from Bernard than any other source of Christian thought.

And the best book that I know of as a comment on Clairvaux as a theologian of the cross comes from Antony Lane's conclusion, in which he sums up Bernard in this way.

As we have seen, Bernard's exposition of the cross is rich and wide -ranging.

Christ has redeemed us and reconciled us to God. He is the second

Adam who puts right the damage caused by the first Adam.

This involves the great exchange, whereby we receive his righteousness in exchange for our sin and guilt.

Through his passion, Christ is made merciful, at least in our perception of him.

His passion demonstrates both his love and the Father's love for us.

Such love evokes a response on our part and serves as an example for our behavior.

Christ brings us victory over Satan and over death, in each case by resolving the issue of our sin.

The cross is a sacrifice for sins offered to God by the

Lamb of God, who shed his blood for us. He paid the debt we owed and bore the punishment that was due to us.

The cross is a satisfaction for our sins by which the Father is placated and propitiated.

Through the cross, our relationship with God is restored.

That's a marvelous summary. Yes, it's wonderful. Of course,

Bernard of Clairvaux taught that no one can approach

God or have a desire for him until that desire and that approach is prepared by grace.

The grace of God must work in us and alter the bent or inclination of our wills before we move to Christ.

So he's very much somebody who believes in effectual calling and, of course, election and all the doctrines that we hold dear as Reformed Christians.

There is a reference to Bernard of Clairvaux.

I might get the pronunciation wrong, Chris, but Nathan Buzinitz? Yes, Buzinitz, I believe.

Yes, long before Luther. Yes, I've had Nathan on my show to discuss that book.

Oh, gosh, that's grand. I've got two quotes from him, if that's not too many.

No. Well, the first one is on page 133.

Roger, are you there? You seem to have cut out. Roger, did you mute yourself?

Hello, Roger. Roger, are you there? Yes, Chris.

Yes, you were paused silent for a very long time. I'm very sorry,

Chris. Does that mean moving? I have no idea. Well, anyway,

Buzinitz says this about— And you've gone silent again,

Roger. I'm sorry. I don't know what's wrong,

Chris, but here's a brief reading from Buzinitz on Bernard of Clairvaux—another New Testament text relevant to this theme.

That's the theme of Christ being our sin -bearer and substitute, which states that Christ was made sin so that we might become the righteousness of God.

This is precisely what we believe as Reformed Christians. He goes on to say,

Bernard cites this with a spin, stating that Christ made himself sin that he might unite penitent sinners with himself, that he might condemn sin by the sin of his killers.

And moving on through Buzinitz to page 187,

I really do believe in movable type because I don't know how all these references disappear as much as you pre -prepare, but here we are,

Chris. Bernard uses the word propitiation to describe

Christ's work of placating the Father. He quotes 1 John 1 -2, which states that Jesus Christ, the righteous, is our advocate with the

Father and the propitiation for our sins. That's a lot further than a lot of modern evangelicals would go, because they deny that there is any wrath in God because of sin, and Christ propitiates him in connection with which he states that Christ intercedes for transgressors.

How marvelous is the passion of Jesus that propitiated for all our inequities.

Christ was broken in body on the cross, thus propitiating the

Father. Bernard also quotes 1 John 4 -10, God sent his

Son as the propitiation for our sins. Propitiation conveys the idea of turning away wrath, and that idea is also stated by Bernard.

The Son of God brought the grace of God and took away the wrath of God.

He shared God's wrath with us. In order that we might share God's grace with him.

So, these are beautiful insights from Bernard of Clairvaux.

A delight to read. His major work was a commentary and a meditation upon the canticle—oh,

Chris, my mind is wandering. That's okay, while your mind is wandering.

Solomon. Yes, the Song of Solomon. He writes beautifully on that, regarding Christ's love for his people.

Let me ask you a question before you go on to another great mind of the pre -Reformation period, who is

Augustinian. We are talking about a time before King Henry VIII launched the

English Reformation, and the Church of England was still under the yoke of Rome.

Why were these men not in danger of declaring such clearly biblical, sovereign grace truth?

Even Henry VIII himself was awarded by the

Catholic Church with the title of Defender of the Faith, and that meant the Roman Catholic faith.

So, why was he not displeased with what they taught, and why were not the

Roman Catholic authorities even more furious? I think these men were so eminent in their time, with so much public support, and also from the monasteries and those who were in some form of ministry as a full -time occupation.

I think it was the strength of their personalities and the fact that their teaching was so cogent and so obviously scriptural that people would have been ashamed by any rebuttal by these men.

I mean, they obviously did have their critics. Bernard of Clairvaux had

Peter Abelard as his great opponent, and he put down Abelard at every point, but he thought that the cross was just really a demonstration of love for us.

It didn't really bear our penalty. It was not a substitution, but just a demonstration of divine love.

I remember Jim Packer saying, well, Christ died on the cross just to show the love of God.

What if I said I'm going to jump out of that window to show that I love you? It's a pointless exercise unless it is what we say—Christ becoming our sin -bearer, taking away our guilt, and cleansing our consciences from all of our sinfulness and the offenses that we have leveled against God.

So Clairvaux, I think one of the problems was with him.

He was one of the supporters of the failed crusade to Jerusalem to free it from the

Muslims, and he had some flaws in his thinking.

But as a man of advocating the grace of God in its purity and exclusive of all human worth, desert, effort,

I think is one of the great ministries and great key points in the history of the church.

Obviously, there must have been among the monks and people who had vocations to full -time

Christian profession, there must have been also among the laity, and particularly those who were educated and capable of reading and thought, a great support for them.

So there was probably much more desire for the truth that these men articulated than we're aware,

Chris. Yes. And let's go back to why we are upholding those who have been educated by Augustine, and I don't mean that they were actual physical disciples of Augustine, but learned from his writings and his legacy.

We are not upholding Augustine as some kind of a perfect man, neither in his teachings or in his actions or in his life.

He just happens to be one of the most brilliant Christian thinkers that ever lived. And one thing that makes matters more confusing, when

Roman Catholics declare Augustine as their own, a lot of the confusion, wouldn't you say, lies within Augustine's ecclesiology, which is very flawed and giving the appearance of Romishness.

And I like the way that the 19th century Princeton divine,

Benjamin Warfield, described the Protestant Reformation as the triumph of Augustine's soteriology over his ecclesiology, that his gospel was pure and so much more powerful and authentic and true than his understanding of the structure of the church.

Absolutely. And Augustine, we know that as brilliant as he was, was not to be followed totally and without being questioned.

And, you know, we qualify the value of his ministry by its conformity to Holy Scripture.

But he was, as somebody said, Paul said it,

Augustine read it. And when it comes to the gospel of grace, he's right on target, but not totally with us.

I mean, he did believe that people, not all the elect, were saved finally.

Some were justified and renewed but fell away. And of course, we know that's what our doctrine of the perseverance of the saints and the preservation of the saints does not uphold.

We believe all of the elect will make it to the kingdom. But there were some of these little irregularities in Augustine's thought and things that we have to be watchful for and not just follow him blindly and totally.

But he is a brilliant exponent of the distinguishing grace of God.

Amen. Well, we have to go to our midway break right now. Please be patient with us, folks, because the midway break is always a little longer than the other breaks in the show, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show, because the

FCC requires of them to localize Iron Trip and Zion geographically to Lake City, Florida, because that's where the radio station is located, and they do so with their own public service announcements that they air on their end, while we, on the other hand, simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

Please use this time wisely. Please respond to as many of our advertisers as you can, knowing that the funding that comes through our advertisers are what keeps

Iron Trip and Zion Radio on the air. But also, send in your questions to Roger Salter.

Don't go away. We'll be right back. It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners from all over the world.

Here's Joe Reilly, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

Dr. Joe Morecraft. I'm Joe Reilly, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland.

Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is

Dr. Joe Morecraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Morecraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, are largely to thank, since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.

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that's heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, or call 678 -954 -7831, that's 678 -954 -7831.

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Please be sure to also give it a good review, and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnzen has on the show.

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But today, I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.

Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur.

In the film Chariots of Fire, Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt

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He sensed that same God -given pleasure when ministering the Word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.

That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a Savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to Him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.

I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the

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That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's Word, and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.

God bless you. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

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That's solid -ground -books .com, and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And let me take time to highlight some books that are available through solid -ground -books .com

that may be of particular interest to our Anglican listeners today.

First of all, there is a great man of God from the 19th century that everybody in this audience should become familiar with, whether you are an

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio free pastor's luncheon. And I continue to receive glowing commendations from men who receive that book after they've read the book.

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Ting is spelt T -Y -N -G, and Stephen is spelt with a

P -H, Lectures on the Law and Gospel by Stephen H.

Ting. There is also a living, a very

Reformed theologically Episcopalian in the United States named

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Rock of Ages, Augustus Toplady, the Little Known Man Behind the

Well -Known Hymn. And that is available through solid -ground -books .com.

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solid -ground -books .com, you can order all of these books and many, many, many, many more.

solid -ground -books .com carries books by all of the major streams of Reformed thought, whether it be

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Books even dating as far back as the 16th century Protestant Reformation and extending forward to our modern day to such current living authors as Dr.

James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. And Roger Salter, I know that you particularly enjoy those books that I just highlighted, do you not?

I do indeed, Chris. I've just written down for recommendation the biography of Augustus Toplady is superb by Thomas Isham, as is the biography of McElwain.

They are excellent volumes, very encouraging. And of course, Augustus Toplady is my second favorite man from the

Great Awakening in the 18th century. I love, as I believe most Christians do,

George Whitefield, but after him I love Toplady because his boldness in declaring the faith without any hesitation or any worry about whatever criticism it might attract.

I love those books. Yes, and in fact, I'm sure there are multitudes of vehemently anti -Calvinist

Christians who love singing Rock of Ages and they don't even realize that Augustus Toplady was a thoroughgoing, very staunch

Calvinist. That's right. Well, folks, don't forget to go to solid -ground -books .com,

purchase generously, purchase frequently. Always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio.

Before I return to my guest Roger Salter and our theme, I want to remind you folks, please, if you really love this show,

Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio, and don't want it to go off the air, we're in urgent need of your financial help.

We have lost a couple of advertisers due to their own financial trials that they're going through.

We hope that we get them back in the future, but we don't know. But we really need your help to replenish that income.

Please go to ironsherpaandzionradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion. If you prefer snail mail, sending a physical check to a physical address, the old -fashioned way from your post office, there will also be a physical address that appears on your screen when you click support at ironsherpaandzionradio .com,

where you can mail your checks, may be able to Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio. If you want to advertise with us, whether it is your church, parachurch ministry, your business, your private practice, like a law firm, a medical firm, or maybe it's just a special event you want to promote, whatever it is, if it's compatible with what

I believe, I would love to help you launch an ad campaign quickly, because we're just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars as we are in your donations.

So please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

Always remember, folks, as urgently and as desperately as we need your donations, I never want anybody in the audience giving less money to your own church on the

Lord's Day than you normally give your church in order to bless Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio with a financial gift.

In other words, never cut into the finances that you have set aside specifically for your

Lord's Day giving to your church in order to bless us with a gift. Never do that, and if you're really struggling to survive financially and make ends meet, wait until you're back on your feet, more financially stable, before you send us a financial gift.

The Bible's very clear. We are to primarily use the money with which He has blessed us, which is still

God's money. We're primarily to use that to provide for church and family, and giving to Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio is obviously not a command of God.

But if you do love this show, you don't want it to disappear, and you're blessed above and beyond your ability to provide for church and family, you have extra money for benevolent, recreational, and trivial purposes, please share some of that money with us.

If you want us to continue to exist, go to ironsherpanzionradio .com, click support, then click click to donate.

Now, last but not least, if you're not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church, no matter where you live on the planet earth,

I have extensive lists spanning the entire globe of biblically faithful churches, and I've helped many people in the

Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio audience all over the planet earth find churches, sometimes even within just a couple of minutes from where they live, that are biblically faithful.

So, if you are in that position of not being in a biblically faithful church home, no matter where in the world you live, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Roger Salter, that's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Before I go to any listener question that has come in, why don't you pick up where you left off,

Roger, and continue with another highlight. Roger, are you there?

Can you hear me, Chris? Yes, now I do. Okay, excellent. I wanted to move on to Thomas Bradwardine.

It may be pronounced Bradwardine, but he's a figure of great interest. He was a genius as a philosopher.

I once went to a library to look at his great work on the nature of time, and I could only read the title.

That was where I got as far as understanding his theory about the fact of time and what it happens to be.

But he was a seriously great man and thinker, and possibly we would think of him as being philosophical as well.

Thomas Bradwardine is, for the little I know about him, a great hero.

He was consecrated Archbishop of Canterbury in Avignon in France on the 19th of July 1349.

Now his dates, he lived for 59 years, were 1290 to 1349.

And as I say, he was consecrated Archbishop of Canterbury, but within three months he had died of some infection he had contracted, and so his tenure as Archbishop was very brief.

But he was a man of enormous influence and a very significant theologian, and he's actually mentioned in Geoffrey Chaucer's work,

The Canterbury Tales. He's coupled with St.

Augustine in The Nun's Priest's Tale. So he was a man of considerable popular fame and knowledge, and he wrote a book which in English is

The Cause of God. He was appalled at the way in which

Pelagianism and semi -Pelagianism withheld the truth of the full gospel from people, and he argued greatly for the doctrines of grace as we understand them.

And as they were laid out by Augustine, he was converted by reading

Romans 9, where the Lord says, I will have mercy upon whom

I will have mercy. And it humbled him greatly, and he came to faith, and he is somebody who really gave the

Pelagians a strong whipping theologically in his time.

And the book that is, again, highly academic. I don't own it because of that.

I own it because I just wanted something that gave me some idea of what

Bradwardine actually upheld as an Augustinian.

And I'm going to read from it from the author's book, which was republished about 20 years ago, a fellow known as Gordon Leff of Cambridge University, and his comments on Bradwardine and the

Pelagians from page 115 to 116.

First, in general, St. Augustine and St. Paul color

Bradwardine's outlook on the relations between God and man as a whole.

They provide him with an extremely high view of God's grace and the complete unknowability of his ways.

And correspondingly, he follows their severe view of man's natural powers, of their inability to do good, of their own resources, and the overriding necessity of grace.

In this sense, we may say that St. Augustine and St. Paul provide framework within which

Bradwardine works. He's a very significant man, and he had a great influence on John Wycliffe.

Wycliffe looked up to Bradwardine as a great authority. So, here is a man who predated the

Reformation in a very significant way. Of course, Wycliffe's names tend to eclipse his, but you can see what a vital and useful man he was in terms of hastening the

Reformation. So, Thomas Bradwardine, somebody worth reading up about.

I don't think there are any full -blown biographies of him available anymore, but somebody well worth knowing about, and a very important linchpin in the progress of the

Reformation. Well, we have a listener that'll squeeze in a question for you.

Chadwick in Seaford, Delaware. From your knowledge of church history, were the majority of those ministers that were fairly well -known and more substantial in their contribution to the church, were they primarily of an

Augustinian and therefore Calvinistic mindset, or did

Arminianism reign in dominance throughout when it was not a

Roman Catholic church? I think the influence of both approaches to theology were alive and kicking, pretty much to the same extent.

And what I'm sure of is that in every era, there was a great champion or two of Augustinian doctrine.

There is no sort of formal chain of Augustinian thinkers, like a series of men who were, how can

I put it, an institution in the church. But there was always someone significant in every era that was a champion of the doctrines of grace that eventually received full presentation at the

Reformation. Some of them are quite surprising, Chris.

If I were to mention some of the others a little further on, I think from our popular knowledge of men in the

Catholic church, we would be mighty surprised. I mean, Saint Isidore of, well, he was a

Spanish bishop, and a bishop fully within the

Roman Catholic order, was nonetheless one of the most conspicuous and bold -voiced advocates of double predestination, and that of course made him a controversial figure.

But he didn't hesitate to state the sovereignty of God. Isidore of Seville is a full -blown

Catholic saint, and there he is, a champion for the doctrines of the

Reformation. I don't have his dates before me, but he was very early on, around about the 6th or 7th century in Spain.

And so there are some very surprising men on my list. Isidore of Seville lived from 560 to 636.

But the list is very long, and one could go on for ages citing the names of people who many would not suspect were champions of the doctrine of grace.

I mean, how many people know that Michelangelo was converted to evangelicalism through his membership of the so -called

Italian Spirituali? These were people, mainly aristocratic women, but a lot of men as well, who believed the gospel, who read

Calvin and Luther with delight, but they couldn't break through the official resistance of the

Church of Rome, and because they were aristocrats, they had no popular support.

But they were thoroughly Reformational in their thinking. The thing that kept them loyal to their church was its history, the notion that it was the original church, which of course it wasn't, not in its form at that time in church history.

I had never heard that Michelangelo was converted to the gospel of Reformation.

Yes, he became a believer in justification by faith, and I meant to look this up,

Chris. There was a program on television a couple of years ago, and I can't remember the name of the series, but it talked about the

Pope's request of the day that he should become a sculpture figure by Michelangelo, and Michelangelo at the time was working on a sculpture of Moses, and when the things that he was ordered to produce by the papacy had been fulfilled, he went back to completing his sculpture on Moses, and they say then the difference, the liveliness, the almost humanness of his sculpture of Moses had changed completely.

You can see it, the art experts say, from the difference in the feet, the left and the right foot after his conversion.

The right foot was remarkably more lifelike than the first one he did.

It's as if justification by faith, which is what we expect, brought new life to Michelangelo and his poems about free grace and correspondence with some of those aristocratic women show just how much the gospel reinvigorated and renewed his life as a creative figure.

I think that's wonderful to think that Michelangelo would have gone to church now had he lived in our time that taught justification by faith.

And did the Pope know about this? I don't think the

Pope that he sculpted was alive at the time, but it must have become widely known, and he didn't hold back the reality of that.

The only thing is that the media and the scholars don't spell it out with clarity to us.

Yeah, I never heard about it until just now. Yeah. I mean, there's so many things that happen in favor of the gospel and this wonderful effect on human life that we simply don't hear.

The academy and the media don't want us to learn, but I think that's remarkable.

And if I can think of that program, Chris, I'll send you the details. I don't know if you know this about the

Statue of Moses by Michelangelo, but I've often wondered—and I'm sure that many people who have seen it, if not every single person who has seen it—I have always wondered, why did

Michelangelo give Moses horns? He has horns on the top of his head in the very famous Michelangelo sculpture of Moses.

Yes, I think that has something to do with the mask that he wore when he was withholding the shining face from the people.

I don't quite know, Chris. I hadn't looked into that before. But it is just astonishing that such a great genius is not recognized for what he became.

Yeah. We Protestants should be pleased with this news, because sometimes the

Lord really does convert the great ones of the earth to show his power, but he's not restrained in any way with his conversion of whom he chooses.

Yes, I wonder if he ever evangelized Leonardo da Vinci, because I know that they were contemporaries and ardent rivals, at least the way that they've been portrayed in movies.

I don't know if that was a product of fiction or not. Is that the Charles and Heston portrayal of him?

Yes, I just think it's astonishing, and it's good news that shouldn't be withheld from people.

It would encourage evangelicals to know that that great man, admired by everyone in every century since, became a humble child of God.

Well, we have to go to our final break.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, remember it's ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

ChrisArnson at gmail .com. Give us your city and state and country of residence. Don't go away.

We're going to be right back after these messages. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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CBBBS .com enriching minds and maintaining the theologically reformed influence of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio through their financial support.

Now shipping worldwide. I'm Dr.

Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Every Christian who's serious about the reformed faith and the Westminster standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the

Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Moorcraft.

It is much more than an exposition of the larger catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.

Dr. Moorcraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

For details on the eight -volume commentary go to westminstercommentary .com westminstercommentary .com.

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Please tell Dr. Moorcraft and the saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr.

Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you. This is

Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.

in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Sule Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor John Sampson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Steve Herford of Eastport Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Roy Owens Jr. of the

Church in Friendship in Hockley, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew

Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnson on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

I hope you also have the of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Quorum, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

And don't forget, folks, that this program has been paid for in part by my very dear long -time friend, dating back to the early 1990s,

Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney -at -law of the law firm Buttafuoco & Associates.

If you are the victim of a very serious personal injury or medical malpractice, no matter where you live in the

United States, call Dan Buttafuoco at 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT.

Or you can visit his website, 1800nowhurt .com, 1800nowhurt .com.

And please, tell Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney -at -law, that you heard about his law firm

Buttafuoco & Associates from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We're now back with Roger Salter, and we have a comment from Al Fonz in Chelsea, Massachusetts, and he is clarifying the whole reason why

Michelangelo's statue of Moses had horns.

And he says that's because the Latin Vulgate edition of Exodus chapter 34, verses 29, 30, and 35, which depicts

Moses' face as shining, the word there in Latin can also mean horned.

Oh, that's fascinating. Have you ever heard that? No, I haven't,

Chris. It's very good to hear. It's interesting. Okay, and Al Fonz also has a question for you.

What is your favorite commentary of the entire Bible written by an

Anglican? Thomas Scott.

Thomas Scott's answer to John Newton in his parish, and went on to write what was the most popular commentary of that era for at least a hundred years on.

And is this readily available today, this edition? I doubt it.

My copy is very old, and I think it's just been, in a sense, probably outdated and replaced by—I know it was before his commentary, but Matthew Henry would probably prove to be more popular.

Yeah, that's a name I'm sure every Christian, whether they are Reformed or not, has heard of Matthew Henry's commentary.

Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you, Al Fonz, and if you could,

Roger, pick up on the next figure from history that you want to address. Okay, Chris.

Well, now here's a chap who is a bishop, but I don't know how to the area where he exercised that office.

Fulgentius of R -U -S -P -E.

I pronounce it to myself like Ruspe, but he lived from 462 to 533, and I'll read a couple of quotes about him in Gusenitz's book.

But he came into prominence with that big controversy around that period of time that he lived as to whether the verse in Timothy, this is good and pleases

God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth, whether that conflicts with the doctrine of election.

And of course, a lot of people will still quote that to us, says he desires all men to be saved.

But what Fulgentius said was, it's actually all those who are included within the chosen or redeemed.

He's saying all of people in that particular class of people whom the

Lord has won to himself, that he desires their salvation, all kinds of men from all nations, all backgrounds, all classes.

So all men of different types are to be included in that particular passage.

And Fulgentius was a sort of an umpire on this dispute, and that was the answer he gave.

Because in the end, if you think about it, if you take that in an absolute sense, that God desires the salvation in a positive way of all people, it's a denial of his omnipotence and ability to exercise his will, which in fact, no one can resist.

And so my answer to that would be to turn to 2 Timothy 2 .10,

I believe, and Paul is saying, therefore

I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus within the eternal glory.

So that all refers to all the elect who are being called to enter the kingdom continually throughout history.

So I think Fulgentius gave wise advice there, and I'll turn to Usenet and his two references to Fulgentius.

But in one of our prayer books that you can choose from in the

Anglican Church, there's a beautiful prayer by Fulgentius.

I haven't turned it up because I haven't unpacked the book yet, but here are two quotes from Usenet, page 136, and it says,

Along those lines Fulgentius observes, the blessed Paul argues that we are saved by faith, which he declares to be not from us, but a gift from God.

Thus there cannot possibly be true salvation where there is no true faith, and since this faith is divinely enabled, it is without doubt bestowed by his free generosity.

And then on this marvelous book that one heartily recommends, page 183, he gives a quote from Fulgentius, the blessed

Paul argues that we are saved by faith, which he declares to be not from us, but a gift from God.

Thus there cannot be true salvation where there is no true faith, and since this faith is divinely enabled, it is without doubt bestowed by his free generosity.

I think that gift of faith is God's greatest treasure to us—the opening to his kingdom, the introduction to the

Savior, the embracing of the Savior, and sharing his embrace of us.

And knowing from the moment that we have confessed our sin and confessed him as our

Redeemer, we are held in that embrace all through our worldly life here and into the kingdom.

I think that is such a beautiful concept to hold dear in our hearts.

Well, we have a question from Victor in Rochester, New York, and Victor wants to know, since you are an

Anglican churchman, I'm assuming that you use the Book of Common Prayer.

I was wondering which date of the Book of Common Prayer you prefer and recommend?

Well, naturally, because of the strength and accuracy of its language,

I would say 1662. But I also used a modern version produced by the

Prayer Book Preservation Society here in America, an Anglican prayer book which gives three or four variations to an outline of worship, which basically follows the outline of 1662, but in modern

English and with some little differences of meaning and expression that seem to fit in more with our contemporary use of English.

But I've always used 1662 as my devotional copy of a prayer book, because I think there are some words you simply cannot replace with modern

English. It does your soul good to use it.

And could you give us a little outline, especially for those of us who are not

Anglican and may be ignorant of the Book of Common Prayer, could you give us a brief outline of that?

A brief prayer? No, no, a brief description of it. A brief description.

Now there's a very interesting copy available from Penguin Books.

It's the Book of Common Prayer, the 350th anniversary edition, and it's in a lovely but durable soft cover, and it has a marvelous introduction by a man

I couldn't tell whether he's a man of great faith, but he certainly honors the

Book of Common Prayer for its accuracy and its piety and its edification.

It's what I want to say about the Book of Common Prayer, and I'm an

Anglican because I find that the best church to be nurtured in, I don't think it's by any means.

We welcome all people who adhere to the doctrines of grace, absolutely.

But for me, it saved me from wandering because I became so distraught at the weakness of contemporary evangelicalism, and I thought going back to Cranmer, a master theologian and linguist and creator of devotional material, seemed to be a good choice, and it's proved that to me,

Chris. It is something that just brings me…you know, the prayer book is about 80 %

Scripture adjusted to public worship. It is practically old

Scripture adapted to public worship or private devotion, and there's a funny story which shows the weakness of some forms of Anglicanism, but there was a church warden, that's one of the laymen who helps with the administration of a parish, picked up a

Bible and said, gosh, so much of the prayer book is in this volume. You see, it's virtually the

Word of God adapted to public worship and public prayer. It's nothing in it that's invented or contrary to Scripture, and then it contains ancient prayers composed by the people we've been looking at,

Augustinians before the Reformation. It's a thoroughly Reformational book, so that's why

I adhere to it, Chris, and it lifts the mind, and in its prayers, it extends our prayers beyond our own personal prayers that we imagine or invent day by day, and makes us look out to the whole of church and the whole world.

The litany, which is a series of petitions, is linked to Luther's litany, and it is just marvelous.

It shows you how narrow our private prayers can be, and how wide and broad and detailed they ought to be.

So, I read the litany once a week, because it makes you realize that our prayers can be so limited, so personal, so much in our private interest, and a few other friends, and a few things that distress us.

It is a prayer, the litany, that makes you wake up and take in everything in creation, in that wonderful collection of chipot petitions.

And it's tied to a liturgical calendar, correct? Yes. We don't have to abide by these suggestions, but it's usually used in a parish church on a

Wednesday, and it can be on a Sunday if we replace the normal intercession with the litany.

It is such a means of grace. Now, the

Covenanter Presbyterians, who were persecuted by the Church of England—primarily, I believe, because they refused to use the

Book of Common Prayer—was not because they did not believe it was biblically faithful, but they did not believe that a church could impose on them the necessity to use something outside the biblical canon.

Am I right on that? You are, Chris, and of course, it's not imposed because, you know, people choose to be members.

A lot of them might inherit their membership, of course, but we don't have to adhere to this in our private life, and we join in it in congregational worship because it is a unitive document.

But it's something that is just not obligatory, and especially less so now.

I mean, the prayers are too strong. If you read the prayers for the sick or the dying and God's judgments in sickness and at death, but also

His grace, you know that God can do anything, even for a person who looks as though they are about to pass away.

If He decides to strengthen them and revive them, He can. No one is beyond His mercy.

But the prayers are just so confessional of deep Reformed faith.

They are Augustinian. Well, I'd like you to summarize, Roger, what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners before we go off the air.

Yes, I think it's to be aware that God has His witnesses and very able and ingenious ones in every decade of the life of the church.

Somewhere there is somebody who is championing the truth, and there are witnesses all throughout the whole history of the church who have always upheld the doctrines of grace—distinguishing grace, special grace, free grace.

These men illustrate that, and there are so many others that I could have mentioned.

I won't read them, unless you want me to just give out a few names. Yeah, sure. We have about a minute and a half left.

Okay. There's Peter Lombard. He was a theologian who wrote the sentences, and every young theologian in the

Roman church had to read Lombard's sentences as their systematic theology.

They are thoroughly Augustinian, and Lombard himself adhered to the doctrine of the helplessness of man and the sovereignty of grace.

There's Juan de Valdez, a Spaniard who was a biblical instructor to the aristocrats in Naples, and he formed a friendship with Peter Marta Vermingley, my favorite

Reformation theologian. It was due to that friendship that Peter Marta became one of the great reformers of that time—underestimated, not well -known, but brilliant.

As Calvin said, Peter Marta was the miracle of Italy. And we're out of time, brother.

I want to give our listeners your website, rogersalter .com. You can read the meditations and blog articles of Roger there.

Thank you so much, Roger, for doing such a wonderful job as my guest. I look forward to your return to the program, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater