August 29, 2024 Show with Roger Salter on “Augustinian Theologians Prior to the Reformation”

Opening Announcements, Pastor Luncheon, and Prayer for Gary Wolfe

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 29th day of August 2024.

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Also, I want to remind you to continue to pray for my very long-time dear friend, Gary Wolfe. Gary was actually a high school classmate of mine, but we really became friends in the 1980s when we were both born-again believers and members of the same church in Amityville, Long Island, and Gary has just been recently diagnosed with stage 4 stomach cancer.

He begins his first round of chemotherapy tomorrow. Please keep Gary in your prayer. Pray for divine healing. Pray for the guidance of all those physicians and nurses and medical staff who are caring for him, and pray for Gary himself, that his faith never wavers, that he continues to have steadfast confidence and trust in the Lord, and that he is even able to maintain an attitude of inner peace and joy in the midst of this terrifying trial, and that you would use him, that the Lord would use him powerfully as an ambassador for Christ to all who meet him and know him during this trial.

So please pray for Gary Wolfe, and we will continue to give you updates on dear brother Gary. But I am thrilled to welcome back one of my very favorite guests. I have been interviewing this dear brother since the early 2000s, not long after I first launched Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio in 2005 on WNYG Radio on Long Island, New York.

This dear brother's name is Roger Salter, a thoroughly Protestant, Cranmerian, and confessionally Reformed Anglican minister, and today he's going to be addressing Augustinian theologians prior to the Reformation, and we'll also be discussing which side of the Tiber River more faithfully carried the torch for Augustine in later centuries.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio, Roger Salter. Oh, and Roger, I'm sorry, I have you on mute. There you go. There you go, Roger. Sorry about that.

Welcome back to the program, Roger. Well, it's lovely to be here, Chris. Did I jump in too soon? No, you didn't. I had you on mute accidentally. I'm sorry about that. Oh, okay. Yes, it's a real delight to be with you, Chris.

Yes, and it's probably even more of a delight for me to have you on the program. Well, we are going to be discussing great men of God that existed prior to the Reformation. Unlike the charge of many Roman Catholics, we do not believe that Christ's church was born in the year 1517 when Martin Luther nailed the 95 Theses up to the door of the castle church in Wittenberg, Germany.

He was still a Roman Catholic, by the way, when he did that. But if you could, what is the general period of time that you are going to highlight where you are going to be paying honor to men of God who were Augustinian, and yet this is prior to the Reformation?

What period of time are we speaking of?

Well, virtually the whole spread of time from the death of Augustine until the very edge of the Reformation, I think, Chris. This is people over almost a couple of millennia, and there's a host of them.

There are just so many folk who were dedicated to the theology we called Augustinian.

Great. Well, start wherever you desire to begin. Okay.

Step in any time, Chris. But what I thought it would be very worthwhile to look at the disciples of Augustine who brought the truth of God to the church before the Reformation, because we can say that there's never an era in the history of the church when God's truth is not being proclaimed and faithfully witnessed to.

And while I think of Augustine, our regarding of him as a great theological authority is not unqualified. We know that Augustine had his flaws and misunderstandings, like all exponents of the Word of God, and we believe it's Holy Scripture that is our supreme authority, and all of us are at liberty to disagree with Augustine where we feel his thinking might be flawed.

But Augustine would have agreed that all true knowledge was to be found in the mind illumined by God, that constant reference to Holy Scripture, pondering Holy Scripture deeply and slowly. I'm not in favor anymore of people reading as many chapters a day as they could.

We've got to go slowly through Scripture and thoughtfully and ponder everything that we see, and at a given moment of reading, we know that we'll always discover more in even our more familiar passages, because the Word of God is infinitely deep, and it brings rapture and joy and enlightenment to the heart, as well as conviction and whenever we need some sort of chastening or being aroused as to our ongoing sinfulness and inadequacy as believers.

But he is a great companion in understanding Holy Scripture, and as we say, there is no era in the history of the church since Augustine when truth has been extinguished. There are always witnesses of very fine skill and insight who proclaim the Word of God on behalf of the gospel.

So I've selected some today. I've also got an extra list, perhaps, of names I could mention, but I thought we would concentrate on about half a dozen. Sounds great. Well, they're not necessarily in chronological order, Chris, but they are men who….

Well, for instance, I'm going to start with John Collett, who was dean of St. Paul's at the turn of the 16th century, and he was preaching the gospel before Luther was out of short pants. He was preaching exactly what Luther would preach in England, and his exposition of Romans is thoroughly evangelical and performed well before the Reformation.

So shall I just start with a quote from John Collett? Okay. His commentary on Romans is brief but superb, and I'm just going to read one paragraph from it to introduce you to a very godly and thoroughly Augustinian man.

By Augustinian, I mean somebody who declares the doctrines of grace fully and without withholding anything true, that it concerns the divine purpose of salvation on behalf of his elect, and so this is what he says in Romans 9.

Now, St. Paul himself, in brief and simple language, places all in the mere will and pleasure of God, so as for those alone to come to God whom he calls, whom he has foreordained, purposed, promised, elected, and predestinated.

This man, well before the ministry of Luther and well before Calvin's ministry and even the commencement of the Reformation as we understand it, he goes on to say, we must carefully observe that in the apostles' writings, these words purpose, promises, elect, and predestinate mean the same thing, and that God's purpose among men, his promise, election, and predestination are one and the same, and that those whom he has promised to call and those whom in his purpose and resolution he has called and those whom he has elected and those whom he has predestined to this house and heritage are the same.

It's a very strong statement. Amen. Yes, it's a lovely one, and it brings great joy to the people of God, and I think it also attracts those who need to come to a knowledge of God that his purposes are eternal and infallible and permanent.

Amen.

That's John Collett. And who would you like to continue on to now?

Yes. I need to say one other thing about John Collett. Henry VIII said he was the one advisor that he had that he would really trust and take notice of. He didn't always obey his advice, but he said of all the advisors he had at court, John Collett was the most able and the most trustworthy.

He was a very, how can I put it, a man of great integrity and attractive piety.

So that's John Collett. So King Henry VIII held him even in higher esteem than his friend Thomas Cranmer.

Well, earlier on, because Cranmer wasn't on the scene when Collett was ministering, but yes, he admired both men, and both of them were in full agreement on the nature of the gospel and on the nature of the sovereignty of God in the dispensation of his salvation.

So I underestimated John Collett for years. I got the impression he was semi-Pelagian, but he's certainly not, as you can see from that quotation.

Well, who's next? Yeah. Sorry. That's all right. I just wanted to know who you were going to address next. Okay.

Alcuin of York, who died in 804, and he was a York shearman, and he spent a lot of time as a monk and as an advisor on religious matters in York, searching the world, Europe as it was at the time, for good books for the library in York.

I suspect that library is still intact. But he wanted the clergy, the monks, all those who ministered in any way, to have access to the best possible theological books on doctrine and history that he could lay his hands on.

And in due course, Charlemagne, who was the emperor of the Roman Empire at the time, virtually made him his personal chaplain to himself and his family, and then to the Diocese of York, and he was somebody who I think must have been, for all of his godliness and wisdom and influence, been one of the founders of the concept of Europe.

There were so many countries and smaller areas that were part of Europe, but not united. And I think that Alcuin must have been someone who had a godly purpose, outline, concept of what a godly Europe could be, which it certainly isn't now.

But anyway, Alcuin was, again, just like John Collard, a man of strong Reformed conviction before the Reformation. And so I'll read from his book, a commentary on the Book of Revelation. This is sort of the middle of a page, Chris, but he's talking about the election of God's people, and he says, the Lord says through Isaiah to the church, thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord hath spoken.

Yet since many who have been overcome by the devil are called by this name, that's a good point to make. How is it that promises to give it only to those who overcome, if not because the gift, we must understand here, is the one by which we know those who are predestined to life in this heavenly city and have been chosen?

Here it is suitably said after that, which no man knoweth, but he that receiveth it, as if he were saying, no one defends the dignity of the Christian name by their life and manners, but the one who has gained it through divine predestination to eternal life.

For knowing the name of Christ is about keeping the commandments, while receiving it is traced back to the grace of divine predestination. So we're seeing that these two men, well before the actual beginning of the Reformation, are actually giving us an introduction to Reformation truth before the actual event arrived on the scene.

These men are absolutely convinced of what Augustine taught concerning the sovereignty of God and predestination. They are all Augustinians. They refer to Augustine frequently. He is their pattern as a theologian, as they say.

He's not their supreme authority. It is Holy Scripture that is that. And so these men stand with Augustine before the Reformation, and there's a host of these men. I was looking up various ones, and I've got a list of about 30, and these men in various eras in the life of the church are proclaiming the truth, which of course runs counter to official Roman Catholicism.

So it shows that in the church there was certainly a freedom of speech that was taken and assumed by these men, even if their superiors or colleagues disagreed with them. They were men of boldness, as well as men of piety and love of truth.

Bernard of Clairvaux, the Cross, and Propitiation

Amen. In fact, we're going to go to our first commercial break, so you could just remember where you left off, and we'll pick up where you left off when we return from the first commercial break. And if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Roger Salter, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

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So please go to royaldiadem .com today and mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. I'm now back with Roger Salter, who is a thoroughly Protestant Cranmerian and confessionally Reformed Anglican, and we are addressing Augustinian theologians prior to the Reformation.

And Roger, you could pick up where you left off.

Okay, Chris. Well, I'm going to refer now to someone who is regarded as the last of the Church Fathers, and it is Bernard of Clairvaux. His dates are 1090 to 1153. And after Augustine, Luther and Calvin quote him more than any other source.

Luther loved Bernard of Clairvaux. Calvin's theology and Bernard's matched each other perfectly well. There are good books on the spirituality, if I can put it like that, on Calvin and Clairvaux, comparing them, and it's just how close they were to each other in their theology and their understanding of the doctrines of grace.

So Bernard of Clairvaux, a marvelous man, and the best book that comments on Clairvaux—I've not got any quotes direct from him—but the best book that I know of on Bernard of Clairvaux, subtitled Theologian of the Cross, is by Anthony Lane.

Are you there, Roger? Roger, are you there? You not hear me?

Well, now I do, yeah. Ah, okay, sorry. I'm turning now to Bernard of Clairvaux, and his dates are 1090 to 1153. And Luther and Calvin, after quoting Augustine, copiously quoted more from Bernard than any other source of Christian thought.

And the best book that I know of as a comment on Clairvaux as a theologian of the cross comes from Anthony Lane's conclusion in which he sums up in this way. As we have seen, Bernard's exposition of the cross is rich and wide-ranging.

Christ has redeemed us and reconciled us to God. He is the second Adam who puts right the damage caused by the first Adam. This involves the great exchange, whereby we receive his righteousness in exchange for our sin and guilt.

Through his passion, Christ is made merciful, at least in our perception of him. His passion demonstrates both his love and the Father's love for us. Such love evokes a response on our part and serves as an example for our behavior.

Christ brings us victory over Satan and over death, in each case by resolving the issue of our sin. The cross is a sacrifice for sins offered to God by the Lamb of God, who shed his blood for us. He paid the debt we owed and bore the punishment that was due to us.

The cross is a satisfaction for our sins, by which the Father has placated and propitiated. Through the cross, our relationship with God is restored. That's a marvelous summary. Yes, it's wonderful. Of course, Bernard of Clairvaux taught that no one can approach God or have a desire for him until that desire and that approach is prepared by grace.

The grace of God must work in us and alter the bent or inclination of our wills before we move to Christ. He's very much somebody who believes in effectual calling and, of course, election and all the doctrines that we hold dear as Reformed Christians.

There is a reference to Bernard of Clairvaux. I might get the pronunciation wrong, Chris, but Nathan Buzanitz? Yes, Buzanitz. Yes, long before Luther. Yes, I've had Nathan on my show to discuss that book.

Oh, gosh, that's grand. I've got two quotes from him, if that's not too many. No. Well, the first one is on page.

133. Roger, are you there? You seem to have cut out. Roger, did you mute yourself? Hello, Roger. Roger, are you there? Yes, Chris. Yes, you were paused silent for a very long time.

I'm very sorry, Chris. Does that mean moving? I have no idea. Well, anyway, Buzanitz says this about—. And you've gone silent again, Roger. I'm sorry. I don't know what's wrong, Chris, but here's a brief reading from Buzanitz on Bernard of Clairvaux, another New Testament text relevant to this theme.

That's the theme of Christ being our sin-bearer and substitute, which states that Christ was made sin so that we might become the righteousness of God. This is precisely what we believe as Reformed Christians.

He goes on to say,. Bernard cites this with a spin, stating that Christ made himself sin, that he might unite penitent sinners with himself, that he might condemn sin by the sin of his killers. And moving on through Buzanitz to page 187, I really do believe in movable type, because I don't know how all these references disappear as much as you think appear, but here we are, Chris.

Bernard uses the word propitiation to describe Christ's work of placating the Father. He quotes 1 John 1 -2, which states that Jesus Christ, the righteous, is our advocate with the Father and the propitiation for our sins.

That's a lot further than a lot of modern evangelicals would go, because they deny that there is any wrath in God because of sin, and Christ propitiates him in connection with which he states that Christ intercedes for transgressors.

How marvelous is the passion of Jesus that propitiated for all our inequities. Christ was broken in body on the cross, thus propitiating the Father. Bernard also quotes 1 John 4 -10, God sent his Son as the propitiation for our sins.

Propitiation conveys the idea of turning away wrath, and that idea is also stated by Bernard. The Son of God brought the grace of God and took away the wrath of God. He shared God's wrath with us in order that we might share God's grace with him.

So, these are beautiful insights from Bernard of Clairvaux. A delight to read. His major work was a commentary in a meditation upon the canticle—oh, Chris, my mind is wandering.

That's okay, while your mind is wandering.

The Song of Solomon. Yes, the Song of Solomon. He writes beautifully on that regarding Christ's love for his people.

Let me ask you a question before you go on to another great mind of the pre-Reformation period who is Augustinian. We are talking about a time before King Henry VIII launched the English Reformation, and the Church of England was still under the yoke of Rome.

Why were these men not in danger of declaring such clearly biblical, sovereign grace truth? Even Henry VIII himself was awarded by the Catholic Church with the title of Defender of the Faith, and that meant the Roman Catholic faith.

So, why was he not displeased with what they taught, and why were not the Roman Catholic.

Authorities even more furious? I think these men were so eminent in their time, with so much public support, and also from the monasteries and those who were in some form of ministry as a full-time occupation.

I think it was the strength of their personalities and the fact that their teaching was so cogent and so obviously scriptural that people would have been ashamed by any rebuttal by these men. I mean, they obviously did have their critics.

Bernard of Clairvaux had Peter Abelard as his great opponent, and he put down Abelard at every point, but he thought that the cross was just really a demonstration of love for us that didn't really bear our penalty, was not a substitution, but just a demonstration of divine love.

I remember Jim Packer saying, well, Christ died on the cross just to show the love of God. What if I said I'm going to jump out of that window to show that I love you? It's a pointless exercise unless it is what we say—Christ becoming our sin-bearer, taking away our guilt, and cleansing our consciences from all of our sinfulness and the offenses that we have leveled against God.

So Clairvaux, I think one of the problems was with him. He was one of the supporters of a failed crusade to Jerusalem to free it from the Muslims, and he had some flaws in his thinking, but as a man of advocating the grace of God in its purity and exclusive of all human worth, desert effort, I think is one of the great ministries and great key points in the history of the church.

Obviously, there must have been among the monks and people who had vocations to full-time Christian profession, there must have been also among the laity and particularly those who were educated and capable of reading and thought, a great support for them.

So there was probably much more desire for the truth that these men articulated than we're aware, Chris.

Yes. And let's go back to why we are upholding those who have been educated by Augustine—and I don't mean that they were actual physical disciples of Augustine, but learned from his writings and his legacy—we are not upholding Augustine as some kind of a perfect man, neither in his teachings or in his actions or in his life.

He just happens to be one of the most brilliant Christian thinkers that ever lived. And one thing that makes matters more confusing when Roman Catholics declare Augustine as their own, a lot of the confusion, wouldn't you say, lies within Augustine's ecclesiology, which is very flawed and very—giving the appearance of Romishness.

And I like the way that the 19th-century Princeton divine Benjamin Warfield described the Protestant Reformation as the triumph of Augustine's soteriology over his ecclesiology, that his gospel was pure and so much more powerful and authentic and true than his understanding of the structure of the church.

Absolutely. And Augustine, we know that as brilliant as he was, was not to be followed totally and without being questioned. And, you know, we qualify the value of his ministry by its conformity to Holy Scripture.

But he was, as somebody said, Paul said it, Augustine read it, and when it comes to the gospel of grace, he's right on target, but not totally with us. I mean, he did believe that people, not all the elect, were saved finally.

Some were justified and renewed, but fell away. And of course, we know that's what our doctrine of the perseverance of the saints and the preservation of the saints does not uphold. We believe all of the elect will make it to the kingdom.

But there were some of these little irregularities in Augustine's thought, and things that we have to be watchful for and not just follow him blindly and totally. But he is a brilliant exponent of the distinguishing grace of God.

Thomas Bradwardine and the Sovereignty of Grace

Amen. Well, we have to go to our midway break right now. Please be patient with us, folks, because the midway break is always a little longer than the other breaks in the show, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show, because the FCC requires of them to localize Iron Trip and Zion geographically to Lake City, Florida, because that's where the radio station is located, and they do so with their own public service announcements that they air on their end, while we, on the other hand, simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.