Shadows to Substance Conference 2023 Questions & Answers session

No, see where you want to. Well, we don't want to press me like this. Be together.

You're gonna moderate this. Right form. Yeah, should there be a word for like the best dress. Okay, we can share the mic as long as Jeff never gets it.

Colossians 2: Shadows, Festivals, and the Sabbath

So the first question we got for you today in the LSB translation of Colossians 2. Therefore no one is to judge you and food. Where. Yet. Colossians 2 1617. Oh. Therefore no one is to judge you and food and drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day.

These things which are only a shadow of what is to come but the substance belongs to Christ. I agree a hundred percent. So here's here's the question. Here is the question. What is love the Sabbath day is referred to here and what is the practical implications for the new covenant believers.

I'll start off and y 'all can yell at me so as I understand this is I don't when it when it says Sabbath day. If you notice that there is an indefinite article prior to that. I don't think that's actually referring to the Sabbath.

So because we see the the what he what he says here Paul says it's respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day as we looked at For instance the the Day of Atonement it was referred to as a Sabbath.

Then you had love Sabbath, so I think that what he's talking about here generally speaking are the Jewish festivals. Not including the you know the least the principle of the observation of the Sabbath.

Because the Sabbath itself was a creation ordinance just like marriage. So I think that that's what he's referring to here are the are the festivals and those things that are so wildly like pointing to Jesus.

That it's Like that that's what it is so you know if you have a Jewish brother who's like hey I want to celebrate you know the Feast of Booths go ahead. And if I don't want to because I'm a Gentile and I want to eat some bacon.

Then go ahead. So you know in it and if my Jewish brother wants to come over here and eat some bacon with me.

Then we can do it all to the glory of God. I think the second part of that verse supports. Yeah, what you said to because it's like it's all pointing to Christ right. Is that kind of what you're saying.

Yeah. So we're not singling out the Sabbath right. Is like any of these festivals any of these days of rest any of these special things. That you put aside and Andrew can talk to this with Jewish upbringing those are all pointing to Christ.

I.

Think in your message. You know there's more than one second day right. There's actually several Sabbaths during a year right. Passover is a Sabbath.

But even if it's not on Saturday. Yeah, but I don't think you can exclude the Sabbath. Yeah, so Saturday is the sign of the Covenant of the Mosaic Covenant. We see this in 30 with chapter 31 of Exodus beginning in verse 12.

It says Yahweh spoke to Moses saying but as for you speak to the sons of Israel saying you shall Surely keep my Sabbaths so oral. Sign between me you throughout your generations that you may know that I am Yahweh who makes you holy therefore you shall keep my.

Keep the Sabbath singular. For it is a holy day to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death. Does that include carrying sticks. Carrying a load. But listen so so according to it Sabbath day keeping is a part of the moral law.

There is a Judicial punishment given to it. Death in Jeremiah chapter 17 tells you how you profane it by carrying a load. So the idea is is what is a load is a load of Bible. Is it a backpack full of Bibles?

In the way, so you just have to decide what it is. So if you're going to establish something. Then we need to understand what it is and you can't leave the Sabbath day keeping out. Meaning if you to profane it is to carry something.

In Old Testament scriptures, you don't find the Sabbath day keeping as a day of worship. Every day to the G was a day of worship, but it was a day of rest and you're not to carry a load.

The Sabbath, Creation Ordinance, and Civil Equity

Okay, so we we had this conversation I think. Then you should agree with me 100 So so this may be a different view of the Sabbath because we talked about this. And and I have a little bit of a different view and I think I'm still your your languages.

I like it better instead of universal or transcendent one, but I believe that on this on the seventh day of creation God created a Sabbath and it was transcended or universal for all people of all times.

And I believe my view I have a little bit more discontinuity with Israel church. I believe that what happened with Moses was that Moses for the nation of Israel was given specific rules. That added on to that transcendent law.

It was given to all people. It was specific for the nation of Israel. And when the fulfillment of law came in Christ and we're in the church. We are no longer under the Mosaic Sabbath laws, but I would say we're under that transcendent.

What's the idea so. So how do we apply that now. So if it's that so if we're speaking of the Sabbath day keeping How do we You know in general equity grab from that and bring it into the day. That's what I was talking about earlier.

Is that if you if you're a business owner you have a business you don't work your labor or seven days a week you need to give them a day off and You are a worker. You shouldn't be a workaholic. You should not work seven days a week you need a day off and I think maybe if you're working for someone that like this to some kind of a Principle that's taken from it like that that if the person that you're working for is trying to work you seven days a week.

Something needs to be done. And that to be stopped like legalized. They're not allowed to work.

Which which. As you just argued you don't have to argue that from a judicial ceremonial standpoint you can argue that from a transcendent standpoint. Something that's over everybody that's not dependent upon a law that was given to a nation with a law that is stemming from who God is transcendent.

You guys are becoming dispositionals. This is where I agree with what you're saying there Jeff, and you know the question then becomes does. You know to what extent you know. Do you have. Because Christ is our Sabbath and You know it's in Jesus that we that we do find the ultimate and true rest.

And I think like we're agreeing like 100 so like if you're seeing the back and forth and you know Elbowing and ribbing. It's because like we agree with a lot. And we're trying to you know on those finer points are like hey, hey, what are you doing you big dummy?

That. So what it says that you look into. That. That there is something to be said about that the civil government. Has a responsibility under the Lordship of Christ to uphold what is right and good and You know and I would say that you know we see that yes if you're being forced to work seven days.

You know and I would say that that unless it is out as a work of necessity. That I think that the whole of the nation the whole of a nation ought to stop. You know that we all you know does for instance does McDonald's need to be open seven days a week.

I? Don't think it does. Does I mean does the federal government.

It wasn't even until maybe the mid 90s that Walmart which Sam Walton was a believer started opening on Sundays. So what do we do with that too when we see culture culture shift away? From and this is where I think a lot of believers and churches and and Christians are having issues if we took for granted foundational biblical mosaic principles of our Nation.

It's a day of rest in the culture just even the secular culture kind of went along with it and understood it. Now we're in such a point of rebellion, too. So then what. So then what do we do. And I know we touched on this to Jeff is are we swinging the pendulum the other?

Way a little too far with Christian nationalism and theonomy. Hey. Let's go back to Mosaic law and start putting people to death for certain things that like you said might have only been For Israel at that time.

So those are the questions. I think about I mean What do you do when the we're in a point to where the secular culture has now moved away from even some basic Godly principles, which they don't know why they were honoring it.

You know you go to Walmart.

1967 or why it was closed because the church wasn't even saying anything. Right. Like because we were taking it for granted for so long that we never even explained Why we were observing that. Right. And so then it's no surprise that the culture is like Why are we doing this?

Let's open it up, or you know not just the Sabbath, but everything. Why in the world were we you know keeping the homosexual for being married. Well. Because God is clearly defined marriage. But we have been too busy telling you have seven ways to mow your lawn.

Mower to cut your grass without offending your neighbor. Let me add another wrench that.

Poor Josh was like I got all these questions. He's like this is what an hour.

Is a genuine concern that he comes along with this. Not only is Jesus our rest. This is our work, too. He's the life that I could not live. And he's the builder of the better house. So the reality is is that even though a nation might honor the Sabbath by not working on Saturday.

Or a Sunday if they're working throughout the week for out without the glory of God They're still blaspheming his name.

Typology, Shadows, and the Limits of Allegory

Carrying the wood on his back when him and Abraham were traveling to the mountain to make the sacrifice. With anyone else in the panel affirm that Isaac is a type of Christ. Someone wanted to throw me under.

Then the final one kind of along these lines. Consider. Are there any controls or limitations on. What shadows we take out of the Old Testament and make them into substance in the new? What are our limitations?

Mary and the ark. And consider that a shadow and substance. What are the limitations? Shadows to substance.

So maybe maybe answer them in reverse order in my opinion is that there's always a danger in doing anything hyper. Right, you see that hyper Calvinism hyper dispensationalism hyper everything, right? There's always a danger that one can take that that.

As brother Greg explained the other day. Is that that ditch? Presbyterian Greg here. There's always a danger on the side of the road to that ditch, right. Those creeds and confessions that we hold to keep us from going into those ditches.

But people oftentimes can put their foot over it and fall right into it, right? And so there's a danger in that and then to answer your other questions. I would say yes.

I would say I would say that when it comes to allegories allegorization Basically, I mean we can you can make allegories out of just about anything you want. You can read into has to cheat into the text anything you want to.

But when we go to Particular texts like in Galatians where we have literally in the scripture The scripture says that as an allegory Abraham and Sarah right and Abraham and Hagar we can make those direct connections to the.

To the statement concerning Isaac, I think very much that Biblically we can Say that Isaac was a top and a shadow because Christ was our sacrifice and we can make we can make those Connections between the wood on his back, right?

Christ carried the cross on his back up to the place where he was to be crucified. Up until the point where it was given to Simon the Cyrenian, right?

Well, I guess I sort of answered it in a message. I know I'll be. Maybe I don't. I mean I'll still say. I just I can't say. He is a type only description says like the last question. Where do I draw the line if scripture says?

Jonah is a type of Christ and Jonah is a type of Christ. This is what I know.

As the acts of Abraham's wrath was coming to slaughter his son God Stopped his hand and pointed him to a ram caught in a thicket And as the acts of God's wrath was coming to crush us for our sins Jesus on the cross.

And so and this is the difference. So the difference would be is where you might say he is a type of Christ and I would say.

And so it says a lot similarity with Isaac to us. Yeah, Isaac was going to be sacrificed. Type of Christ maybe. Ram took the wrath of Isaac's knife. As Jesus took the wrath of God's punishment. That I was.

And I think I think one of the things that.

Why I make the distinction why it's important to be precise like this is because there is a danger and all of us up here Pastors we can all be guilty of this as preachers.

Just to preach something because it preaches.

And say something. Scripture doesn't say my my fears when I stand before my Lord. I don't want to stand before my Lord and him say Angie you went too far. I'd rather him say you didn't go far enough. Everything he said is right, but you could have gone from you know I just I'd rather be in the same position such why I say I use the.

I There are some things that like I've had discussions with great and over the phone going I've got this kind of kooky idea. That I seem to be smiling, but I'm not gonna preach this from the pulpit. All right, so like this things are like you know a good conspiracy theory.

And you made shame on your friends, and then like time comes. But it's totally different when you get up behind the desk. And to say thus says the Lord and you better. You better have precedent to be able to make a connection you know and so whereas you know I'm sitting here looking at Leviticus 16 and I'm going you know looking at some stuff going.

You know that there's there's some rabbits. I could chase. And go you know which one's the hair that we're gonna take out you know what's the one that we're gonna say. You know. Yeah, I think it comes back to Again when we stand up behind the pulpit, and we're standing on the authority of God's word.

It's the same reason that I'm not gonna preach. From John 8 1 through 11 right it's not in the earliest manuscript. Yeah, so I'm not gonna stand For me. It's not in the earliest manuscript. So when I get into the pulpit to preach what I'm saying is thus sayeth the Lord and if not that Jeff doesn't take that seriously, but for me personally I Feel very unsafe right to stand upon the authority of God's Word if I don't have great confidence in those verses so You know I think the same can be said.

I remember I was trying to dig through my Bible to find it. But there's a place in Exodus. I believe where. Where when Moses comes down to address it he mixes up the water right and has the people drink it.

Yeah, right yeah, and and I remember when I first stumbled upon that yeah the gold from the calf. Thinking man, they're gonna drink down judgment, and that reminds me of Christ drinking down my judgment, and I was like man That'll preach, but I Hesitated because as I began digging and seeking out counsel.

The counsel I received was well. There's really no place to back that up anywhere else in Scripture. So you know one of our principles of hermeneutics is to interpret Scripture with Scripture. And I just felt again unsafe it seems really really Parallel you know analogous, but again. I always want to be cautious because I'm gonna stand before God one day.

Yes, let us a touch on that. So the reason why he wouldn't your critical text position. Which I'm sure most of y 'all in here are folks with the critical text position and so for most King James people I'm not a King James, but I hope to the majority text position.

That's why I would I'll let y 'all study that for yourself. I. Very quickly just to finish up on shadows to make sure since we're in a room of people who love to define term shadow Isn't an exact image either right.

Shadows are Shadowy and a shadow can only take place where there's a brighter light behind it or something right. So when we're talking about Isaac I think it's good to keep in mind. We're talking about shadows.

We're not talking about an exact image or an exact replication. It is supposed to be a little fuzzy. A shadow isn't necessarily clear. You can't necessarily grasp it pick it up. It's not tangible so sort of a distinction similar.

And I think we're all and I would like to say we're all grateful that Kevin did cancel one of his modeling contracts.

That coming from a guy wearing a belt. This next question.

1 Peter 3, Baptism, and Noah’s Ark

I Think you really have to go Up a couple verses so if you look at verse 18 It says when Christ also suffered for sins once and for all the righteous for the unrighteous so righteous means law-keeping unrighteous means law-breaking so the law-keeper suffered for the law-breakers.

How did that happen. Burial and we'll get there. For Christ also suffered once for all Righteous for the unrighteous so that he might bring you to God. Having been put to death in the flesh and made alive in the Spirit and then here comes that that.

Which I thought John was going to touch on. And he was preaching the army and he says in which also he went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison. He waited patiently. I lost my place. Now in prison he once were disobedient and the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Nineveh during The construction of the ark in which a few that is eight persons were brought safely through water.

Corresponding to that baptism now saves you not to removal of dirt from the flesh. But an appeal of a good conscience to God through right here the resurrection of Jesus Christ. So verse 18 speaks about his death and burial in the verse 21 brings out his resurrection.

So the baptism that saves us, so if you look Jesus talks to his disciple. He says I have a baptism to undergo. Oh How I wish this would come true. The baptism he was speaking about was. He was speaking about it's in his future.

He wasn't pointing back to his past. When he was baptized because his baptism that he's pointing to that he has to undergo is his death burial Resurrection. When you and I are baptized we are baptized into his death burial resurrection.

Very impressed we listen very with him. Raised with him in the newness of life. So the baptism that saves us is the death burial resurrection of Jesus Christ. It's not talking about our being dumped into the water.

It's talking about what happened with Christ in his death burial resurrection, but he undergoes saves us.

Because it's because I would all over. Yes, there's a problem with translations because of the. Because the we have an English word for this Sorry. Dip plunge immerse.

Right and the problem is we think of baptism. You're thinking baptism. Baptism on. Yeah, but see things we end up thinking.

This is one specific thing. When the word actually means more than one because we think we always think we see baptism. I think what our baptism like. That's the only thing that I could hurt him, but the words used in a lot of different ways.

Because of the death burial resurrection of Jesus we so for the most part I take baptism As wet unless This context tells me otherwise, and I think context here doesn't sell the watch death burial at the end resurrection.

It's all focused on what happened to Christ, and I think what Andrew just said was really good point as well that that we ever.

Really good.

Except for the dispensational side. Corresponding to what Andrew just said We have to define words in this context. We can't take what one time a word means over here and always apply it throughout a word gets its definition based on its context right.

Again if we if we take a Ultra hyper as we just talked about the dangers of it. The literal reading of the text and we hear John the Baptist saying Jesus Behold the land of God that takes away the sense the world is walking down the banks of Jordan.

Are we to take that as him as a physical literal sheep? Or is he the perfect sacrifice appropriate propitiation for us on our behalf? It's about authorital intent that defines the words for us. And so in this the authorial to attend in this is referring to that mark that Noah The Ark suffered all the wraths for the people on the inside of that boat.

But they were brought through it safely and so Christ is our greater artist. John Crawford. It did an excellent job on speaking on and so corresponding to that baptism according to that Immersion of God's wrath being poured out on Jesus for those in him again limited atonement.

We are saying corresponding to that baptism. Symbolized in baptism.

I Can or Christ return. I'll just say go go listen to my sermon at CUNY Community Church. Where we have the station is conference. Because I don't have time to give you a message why it's the chemist.

But if you disagree, you're just wrong. That's okay. You'd be right man. Corresponding to that.

I would agree that it's Canon Sensationalism. We all are under print agreeable. Well, I'm a biblical sensations, so I don't know what you are. You agree a hundred percent. Yeah, I mean like I believe that God can do whatever God wants to do.

God works in my life. If you don't believe that God works. Come hang out with me. But again, I'm a sensationalist.

I was praising God. Dr. White was not here when I preach because I don't want to be in a I don't want to be in a just a few years seminar or in a dividing line.

Can I answer that one. So literally when we were talking about the different topics that we can switch to because it was originally gonna be in Ephesians. We're like what could be a good topic that we can keep our dispensational friend here.

So we run a different ideas by each other. So how is that. Came out guys. No, so I Recently been preaching through the book of Ruth And the book Haggai and just seeing the obvious shadows in there. And so I was like guys we could do an awesome conference on shadows to substance and and Jeff was like well Can we think of ten shadows and I rattled off like 30 right in there like it was like They're all over the place like you just can't and in the God glorifying thing in this is that it's a continual As the shadows do they just shout out Jesus.

You know Jesus Jesus. He's coming and for us now We say Jesus Jesus. He's Coming. And I think that's Something I've been super encouraged by for all the preaching here today is that this thing you cover an ounce of gallons of shadows that we have.

There's so many. Oh I Make a distinction between Israel and the church.

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