August 11, 2020 Show with Dale Johnson on “The Need for Biblical Counseling”

Biblical Counseling as a Response to the Church and the World

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on another blisteringly hot day here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, Tuesday, August 11th, 2020.

And I'm thrilled to have a first-time guest on the program today. His name is Dale Johnson, Executive Director of the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors, also known by its acronym ACBC. And today we are going to be discussing the need for biblical counseling, and we're also going to be announcing the Basics of Biblical Counseling Conference, which is a weekend conference at the end of this month, Friday and Saturday, August 28th and 29th at High Point Baptist Church of Larksville, PA, which is a suburb of Scarsdale.

I keep saying Scarsdale. That's in New York. Scranton, Pennsylvania. I don't know why I keep saying Scarsdale. Larksville is a suburb of Scranton, Pennsylvania, and that conference will be held at the High Point Baptist Church there, which is a church revitalization effort in northeastern Pennsylvania through the Grace Advance Ministry of John MacArthur.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Dale Johnson.

Thank you, brother. Really excited to be here with you. Very excited about our topic and looking forward to our conference there in Pennsylvania.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to meeting you there at the conference. For those of you who have not yet me heard during my daily announcements, I am going to be manning an Iron Trip and Zion Radio exhibitors booth, God willing, Friday and Saturday, August 28th and 29th at the ACBC conference, which is on the basics of biblical counseling.

And if you could, before we have you give your personal salvation testimony, which we always do as a matter of tradition, when we have a first-time guest who is also a Christian on this program, before we do that, if you could let us, our listeners know about ACBC and also about this conference.

Sure. Yeah, happy to do that. We are looking forward to being there with you guys in Pennsylvania. Our ACBC, they wanted to start a teaching ministry to be able to get primary focus. He became the study and fix and repair the problems.

It's exciting to see that.

Yes, and the sessions at this conference at the end of this month include the need for biblical counseling, which is our topic for today, the definition and goal of biblical counseling, progressive sanctification, qualifications of a biblical counselor, secular and integration theories, what makes biblical counseling biblical, and a Q &A session with the audience conducted by Dale Johnson.

And if you would like more details on how to register, go to biblicalcounseling .com forward slash Scranton, S-C-R-A-N-T-O-N dash PA dash training. That's biblicalcounseling .com forward slash Scranton dash PA dash training.

And you can also find out more information about the venue of this conference, High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, by going to highpointbaptist .church, highpointbaptist .church. And hopefully we will remember to repeat this information throughout the program today.

Well, as I already hinted, since our guest today, Dale Johnson, is a first-time guest, we are going to have him now give a summary of his salvation testimony, which will include the kind of religious atmosphere, if any, he was raised in, and what kind of providential circumstances our Sovereign Lord raised up in his life to draw him to himself and save him.

Dale, if you could.

Yeah, absolutely. I'd love to talk about, I grew up in a solid Christian home. My parents were sold regularly every Sunday. I grew up in a place where it wasn't, I repented, it wasn't encouraging to me, even though I didn't understand fully all that the Lord was in my heart and began to pursue that.

Praise God. Well, what was it specifically, if you can pinpoint something or several things that the Lord used to reveal to you, hey, I really need to pursue being trained to become a biblical counselor?

And by the way, brother, can I just interrupt you for a second, if you could? Sometimes your voice gets muffled, so if you can make sure you're speaking directly into the mouthpiece of whatever device you're using, that would be helpful.

Sure. And so when I was in college, I was pursuing business. That's what everybody else was doing. And so, you know what? I'm not cut out for this. I'm not really good at economics. And so I should go pursue psychology.

I like people. That's kind of what I want to taking courses in psychology. And as I'm sitting in those courses, not knowing any different, I began to learn about some of these secular theories. And again, the Lord saved me at a young age.

The word was taught to me. I had hidden the word in my heart and I began to see, you know what? The person that the secular psychologists are describing is not the same person. And I began to be curious about that.

And I asked a local pastor one day, we were having lunch and he said, you know what? With some of your questions, I have a guy that you need to read. And so he gave me a book by Jay Adams. And to read that, and Jay began to articulate so many of the questions that I had had, he began to articulate answers, trying people and their problems in a way that secularists could not explain.

And so that began to flourish in my heart and mind. Later in the junior, once the Lord called me to ministry and my future wife and I decided that that's the direction we were going to go. We went looking for a seminary that taught biblical counsel, what we did.

In preparation. I'm sorry if you already mentioned this, but what was the seminary that you found.

That did this? So at the time I went to Southeastern Baptist Seminary. Oh,.

And that's where they had this training for the biblical counselor. Yep. That's correct. Okay, great. Well, a major theme is the need for biblical counseling, but I think before that, you should probably define specifically what you mean and what ACBC means by biblical counseling, because as you are fully aware, the spectrum of theology and philosophy and views of counseling and implementation of counseling is very broad in modern-day evangelicalism.

In fact, I have in my decades of being a Christian, I was saved in the 1980s, I have encountered men who are identified as bible-believing conservative evangelicals who are also counselors who, in further investigation onto what they believed, discovered, sadly, some very bizarre and weird things that they were teaching people in counseling sessions.

And so just because somebody identifies as a Christian counselor hangs a shingle on the door that says we provide Christian counseling. They might even use the term biblical, but it's really far from that, or it might be obviously a wide spectrum of views and approaches and philosophies of counseling that are present, some closer to the truth than others.

But if you could specifically address what you mean by biblical counseling and how it stands in contrast to other theories.

Defining Biblical Counseling and Distinguishing It from Secular Theories

Happy to do that, and we're going to flesh this out in even greater detail at the conference that you mentioned before there in Scranton. So I'll give a definition, I'll just simply read it, a definition that we worked up that we try to describe the nature of biblical God and what those problems are.

That's really critical. How many people with secular theories and often mission like this that is regulated by the gifts that God has given us to think about doing when people walk through the process of sanctification.

One of the critical we talk about. I want to give.

Our listeners our email address. If you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Dale Johnson, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

Please, as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, and obviously I could readily understand a theme like this evoking questions from those that have very personal, private, and intimate things that are troubling them that they need to ask our guests about, and so we will obviously allow you to remain anonymous if that is indeed the case, but I would ask if you please to please, if it's just a general question on counseling, if you would give us at least your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

This interview is also a reminder to me that I've got to get a hold of Jay Adams to have him return to this program. It's been many years since he's been a guest on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, and I've got to get him back on.

If the Lord opens up that door, he wrote a very nice endorsement for this program, and I'm looking forward to the possibility of getting him back on the air. We do have already a listener question from CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, and CJ says, I know a pastor who is a very close friend of mine who has repeatedly told me that he does not provide biblical counseling at his church because of the very reasons that you stated.

Biblical counseling is important, ironically, in that the Bible is our sufficient, inerrant guide and authority, and that anyone sitting under the regular preaching and teaching of the Word of God and also studying it regularly, not only in formal settings of Bible study, but in private individual study, should not need any additional counseling.

How do you respond to.

That? Well, I think that's unfortunate, in part because a preacher preaches the Word as a pacification in life, or to navigate those difficulties in the command of God. He came to or he sees the world further when he's making applications.

What it does is it does praise God for that. Amen, and thank you, CJ, from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, and I'm going to add a.

Couple of my own thoughts when we return from our first station break. If anybody else would like to join CJ on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com.

Give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away. We'll be right back with Dale Johnson after these messages from our sponsors. Iron Sharpens Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine Christian organizations to remain on the air, like the Historical Bible Society.

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In his design. Thank you. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. And our guest today is Dale Johnson, Executive Director of ACBC, which stands for the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors. And we are discussing the need for biblical counseling on our program today.

And in fact, we're also promoting a conference where Dale Johnson is speaking at the end of this month, Friday night, August 28th, and Saturday all day until 5pm, the 29th of August. I will be there, God willing.

Manning and Iron Shelf and Zion Radio exhibitors booth, I hope as many of you listening will join me there, whether you have to take a plane, a train, an automobile, a parachute, however you need to get to Scranton, Pennsylvania to attend this conference.

I hope that you will attend and greet me at the Iron Shelf and Zion Radio exhibitors booth. Once again, our email address if you have questions for Dale Johnson today is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

And as always, give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private answer.

And what I was going to say in response also to C .J. from Lindenhurst, Long Island's question and comment, for those of you who just tuned in, he knows a pastor very well who does not practice or provide biblical counseling outside of his own preaching and teaching ministry from the pulpit and outside of public bible studies and sees no need for them outside of those things and also the personal study of individuals.

I think that that caricature of what sola scriptura and the sufficiency of scripture is, is not healthy and if you were really to take that logic to its logical conclusion, this pastor wouldn't even need to preach.

He would just get up to a pulpit and read the bible and then after he was finished reading the passages that he intended to read, he would just sit down and dismiss everyone or dismiss everyone and sit down.

Would you say that there's some accuracy in what I just said about that kind of a caricature about.

The sufficiency of scripture? I think that's certainly the case and I understand pastors feel pressured. They're busy. They have a lot. I think that's a faulty way of thinking about that caricature trying to navigate.

And we have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island,.

New York, who asks, how do you respond to the criticism of biblical counseling that it is too much of an imitation of the world's methods of counseling even if it is using the bible alone as its inerrant guide?

And what I mean by that is a clinical sterilized atmosphere is often replicated where people are sitting in waiting rooms having these scheduled appointments with counselors for a session and then paying sometimes hefty fees for them.

How do you respond to those that are not only opposed to this model but even angry about it? Yeah, Chris, that's a very.

Good question and I think we should always be cautious at us trying to mimic what the world... So I agree with the questioner that we have to be cautious and pay very close attention. Think about each of those counselors who are licensed by their individual states have to follow them in with the counseling element of people that we counsel.

Somebody that went into that and that's what a good question and be paying attention. Now if we were going to narrow in on one aspect.

Of the question that we just heard about the charging a fee, is that appropriate for a church to have on staff a counselor that charges individuals for being counseled? Yeah, that's a.

Good question and even among biblical counselors there should never be... John in Bangor, Maine.

Says, is your approach to biblical counseling the same as what was called and still may be called in some circles, newthetic counseling, a phrase coined by J. Adams? And if so, how do you respond to the harsh criticisms against newthetic counselors who seem to accuse every single person who is going through a trial in their life of having their own personal sin as the core of the problem?

Now I understand that the fall of Adam and sin in general in this world is the cause for everything that is a problem. It's the cause for every reason that we find ourselves in unpleasant circumstances and things that bring us difficulty and sorrow, but there are some who have complained that they are always accused of their sin being the problem and it seems to at points resemble too much the word of faith movement who would do the same thing for physical.

Ailments. Yeah, so the idea of newthetic, they certainly coin that term and that is the newthetic is absolutely inappropriate, very biblical. I've heard all, and you know, Chris, all the reasons comes up.

I think that is a disposition. In fact, can we pick up right there where you left off.

Because we have to go to our midway break right now. Sure. And folks, just as a reminder, this is our longer than normal break, the midway break, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the FCC requires of them the localizing of Iron Trip and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida.

So while they air their own public service announcements and other local announcements, we air our globally heard commercials during the midway break and we ask of you to use this time wisely. Please write down as much of the information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them or even respond to them to thank them for advertising with us.

This may, God willing, further ensure that these sponsors will remain our advertisers, which will also subsequently, God willing, further ensure that we will remain on the air for a longer future because we absolutely rely upon our advertisers to exist.

So always keep that in mind when you're hearing advertisements that these fine folks who believe that we are valuable enough to spend money on advertising, that they are enabling us to even exist. So we thank all of you who do respond to our advertisers and I hear from Mike Gaydosh of Solid Ground Christian Books, for instance, regularly who raves about how many of you are ordering books from him and he is very grateful and very thrilled to see the results from advertising on Iron Trip and Zion.

So please do that and also write down questions about biblical counseling for our guest Dale Johnson and send them to chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com and don't go away, God willing, we'll be right back after these messages with more of Dale Johnson and the need for biblical counseling.

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Bhanu Gadi earned a doctorate in pharmacy degree and is very knowledgeable on the current coronavirus pandemic. Please contact Dr. Gadi so he and his expert staff can give you proper guidance amid all the contradictory confusion we are all hearing in the media.

To find the pharmacy nearest you, call 516 -354 -2000, that's 516 -354 -2000, or order online at leesdrugsrx .com, that's leesdrugsrx .com. Don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program.

Greetings in the matchless name of our Lord Jesus Christ. My name is Bhanu Gadi. I'm a pharmacist in New York, which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through. In Psalm 139, verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this,.