TLP 84: The Future of Christian Families and Higher Education | Dr. Steve Pettit Interview

The third period of time is right after high school, where now they are crystallizing and solidifying what is their world view. Who is, what do they believe, and where are they heading? Welcome to Truth.

Love. Parents. Where we use God's Word to become intentional, premeditated parents. Here's your host, A .M. Brewster.

The Value of Higher Education for Christian Students

Today is the final installment of our discussion about Christian education, and what better place to end off than with the president of a Christian university. And on top of that, it's not just any university, it happens to be my alma mater.

Well today we want to tackle some big questions. You know, growing up, I didn't second guess for a moment that I would attend a Christian university. But after becoming a guidance counselor for a Christian high school, I found that the majority of our graduates had no plans at all to attend a Christian college.

And in the past ten years, the Christian community has witnessed a number of well-known Christian colleges and universities shut their doors. In addition, millennials are telling us that higher education itself is becoming passé.

So that begs some questions for every intentional, premeditated parent out there. Should we be parenting our children toward higher education? Should we be parenting our children toward Christian higher education?

And for some of you, by the time your kids are old enough, will there be a Christian university to send them to? Well, I believe today's special guest is up to the challenge of helping us step through these questions and discern some biblical options.

Today's guest is Dr. Steve Pettit. To thousands of young people, he's their beloved president at Bob Jones University in Greenville, South Carolina. However, many of you, including me and my wife, know him simply as Brother Pettit because he preached at your church or summer camp somewhere between 1985 and 2014.

In fact, not only have I been blessed under his ministry in a number of venues, but my wife made some significant decisions for the Lord while he was preaching at Northland so many years ago at a teen camp.

And of course, his wife knows him best as husband and his four children know him best as father and his grandkids. Well, thank you, Dr. Pettit, for joining us today. Thank you, Aaron. It's a joy to be with you.

I'm really excited to have you here today. As a father and a counselor, I've given what we're going to talk about today a lot of time to going over it, especially because so many kids in my previous ministries have asked me my opinion on these subjects, but I'm really interested to have your input.

And I'd like to start with the subject that right now is affecting many high school graduates. There's all this talk about formal university education becoming obsolete. I know personalities like Mike Rowe and people like that are huge proponents of trade schools and apprenticeships and on-the-job training.

But how should the Christian parent counsel his child concerning higher education?

Oh, listen, that's a tremendous question. And actually, I appreciate what Mike would say about trade schools, apprenticeships and on-the-job training. And I think that that would fit for definitely a certain group or a certain segment of people.

But I think it's true that parents and students are increasingly questioning the value of college education, and there's nothing wrong with that. We should be stewards of the money that God gives to us.

But I think the idea that a college education is becoming obsolete is really unfounded. There's tens of thousands of job openings that remain unfilled because they aren't qualified people that can fill the roles.

Just a few years ago, I heard the chief of communication from a little company called Microsoft, and he was a very compelling speaker. And he said, basically, we have 300 ,000 jobs that cannot be filled because people lack the qualifications.

And he said the two primary qualifications are, number one, the ability to verbally communicate, and number two, the ability to write and communicate in written form. Well, I was in a crowd of 4 ,500 people, and I wanted to jump up and start shouting and saying, I know a place where you can go and learn this.

It's Bob Jones University. A good college education equips individuals with the skills that are needed to fulfill these roles and jobs. The unemployment rate for college graduates is typically half of what it is for those without a college education, and that's particularly true in an economically tough time.

So on an average, a college student is going to earn twice as much income over a working lifetime than someone who doesn't earn a college degree. Of course, you know, when we think of college and education, we're thinking primarily of cost and we're thinking of price and so forth, but there is so much more involved in the influence, the positive influence of a college education.

For example, in the book Faith and Learning, it talks about the three times, three periods of life as children are growing up that they make their most important moral decisions. And the first stage is between that age of six months and 14 months where children learn that very important two-letter word, no.

And it does take them a little while to learn that. The second period of time is somewhere between the age of 10 and 12, maybe fifth grade up to seventh grade, you know, pre-junior high or right in the early junior high years.

And that's the period of time that you make a decision about your friends. Who are you going to allow to influence you, your peer pressure that you face? And then the third period of time is right after high school, that 18, 19-year-old time frame where people have grown up, especially in a Christian home, where now they are crystallizing and solidifying what is their worldview.

Who is...what do they believe and where are they heading? And so this is a time of real transformation. And so a college education, particularly I'm an advocate of Christian college education, this is an important time of growing and maturing.

And so all the learning and development that can take place during this time expands you, it grows you. That's what a good education does. And then, of course, it opens up doors for opportunities in the future.

The bottom line, I think, is that college is one of those experiences where you're going to get out of it what you put into it and where you go, what your major is, your classes, the relationships you develop, the activities that you get involved in.

All of those things are very, very important and you need to be committed to that. And I think that having a college education is worth its value. And I definitely do not believe it's going to be obsolete.

You know, as you sat there describing all of that, I was reflecting on the fact that you pretty much summed up so much of my experience while I was there at Bob Jones. I love the liberal arts university concept because it does more than just prepare you for...

You know, a lot of people are going to college because they want a certain career, so give me the information I need for my career. But the liberal arts, the learning how to write, the learning how to speak, that helped me give the adult skill sets that you need to be successful in life beyond simply having the knowledge for your specific business.

But not only that, like you said, it is character building, being able to be in an environment where God's word was being preached, where morals were something that we weren't just something discussed in philosophy class, but something that was absolutely important in everyday life.

And so, yeah, what you just described there is exactly what I experienced going through.

Well, absolutely. And an education, a liberal arts education, is for the purpose of developing the whole person. And that's really the very foundation of college education, even going back to its very roots.

And it's shaping your thinking so that you could be, in a sense, a liberal person from the standpoint of a freed person. You're able to think, you're able to reason through, you're able to critically think about things, solve real life problems, and then be able to be a leader in the world.

Christian College or Secular College?

OK, so if higher education is still a beneficial option for future generations, should Christian parents be directing their kids to Christian higher education or secular? I know there are wonderful opinions on each side, and I think I already kind of know what your thoughts are, but go ahead and explain a little bit for us.

Well, let me speak from two sides. One is I have an undergraduate degree from a secular university. I went to a military college here in South Carolina called The Citadel. And then secondly, I have a degree here from Bob Jenners University, where I graduated after I finished my undergrad.

So I do know both sides of the fence. And I do believe the advantages of a Christian college education really do outweigh any benefits of a secular college education. And I think, first of all, if I could just begin with the most basic, and that is, you know, what do you want spiritually out of your educational experience?

Do you want a place where you can thrive or do you want a place where you're going to survive? I went four years to a secular school. I actually became a believer my freshman year and really began to grow in the Lord.

And I can honestly say in a secular environment, I did grow. I grew because I took a stand. I grew because I shared my faith. I grew because I had a select choice of friends who had a great influence in my life.

But I do want to make it very clear that a secular education takes place in an environment where truth is really not valued from a biblical standpoint. So anyone entering into the classroom on a secular campus is going to walk into the realm of polemics.

That is, it is going to be a conflict. We had a young man who was here working on a nursing degree and just to make a long story short, he ended up switching to a secular school. And he began to contact me and just really share with me the real struggle that he was facing.

And he entered into a world that did not, of course, believe in the authority of Scripture. And so therefore, he was facing struggles in the realm of morality, in the realm of belief, particularly with evolution.

And in many cases, the temptations are relentless and overwhelming and can be very, very devastating in the life of a young person. And we do know, and research has shown, that many Christian young people who have grown up in church end up walking away from their faith after being in a secular university.

Christian colleges, however, in the right kind, really exist to build a student's faith, not destroy it. They want to build you up. And this, first of all, begins in a classroom where the class is built around a biblical worldview.

And that begins in every class. That's the way we start class and we come at philosophy. That's the lenses through which we see the world. And I think, secondly, a Christian college should have a very powerful chapel platform where God's Word is effectively preached.

And so the students are growing through the Word of God. And then I think having a very strong relationship with discipleship programs within the school, and then I think also being connected with the local churches in the community and where the students are challenged with outreach and evangelism.

All of these things that I mentioned are things that we do here, of course, at Bob Jones University. Then when I look at the opportunities that our students have, I just love our school in particular because I just know our faculty and our staff and their commitment to not only a Christian life, but a quality academic education.

And we have, for example, in our science department, we have 20 professors with terminal degrees, PhDs, and they are providing an incredible education. Our pre-med department, we have about an 80 to 100 percent acceptance rate in the medical school within the first year after graduation.

And we have that in our engineering program. We have a 90 percent pass rate on the fundamentals of engineering exam. And the reason I say that is there is a tendency to think within a Christian education that is not as strong in academic because of our belief in scriptures.

But that's really not the way it is. So a Christian college is a place where you can be in a vibrant, spiritual, edifying atmosphere and at the same time have a combination of quality academics.

I'm glad you brought that up, too. I mean, obviously there are some areas of study that Bob Jones University doesn't teach, and that's okay. But I think a lot of people assume, like what you said, that for some reason, because it's a Christian university or whatever else, that the subjects you do teach for some reason aren't going to be covered as well or as in depth and people aren't going to be as prepared in those subjects.

And that's just categorically not the case. And I'm very, very pleased with my education I received there and know that there are many businesses that actually are happy to see graduates from Bob Jones applying because they know that they bring with them not only a superior ability to do their job well, but they bring with them the character that's going to help the business overall.

And as I've worked with students as a guidance counselor, really, like you're saying, this question between secular or sacred, I would tell them, you know, it really has less to do with the school and more to do with the person sitting across the desk from me.

Because I chose to go to Bob Jones, but I'll just be very frank and transparent with everybody. I made some poor choices while I was there. My heart was not where it should be. So though I was surrounded in a place where I got the preaching and I had the investment, I had everyone there on staff truly love me and want my greatest and best interest for God, I made poor choices while I was there because of me, not necessarily because of the academic environment I was in.

Now, if you had taken me and you put me into a secular environment where people were actually encouraging me to follow my flesh, I can only tragically imagine how terrible that devastation would have been for me personally.

Of course, I acknowledge that, you know, Daniel and Joseph, like where they were in Egypt and in Babylon, they glorified God where they were, completely separated from any support system, completely separated from any preaching or anything like that.

They did a fantastic job because of who they were as people. And that's really, I think the biggest deal. A pastor friend of mine and I were talking about this exact same issue. And he made the observation that the kids who graduated from a Christian high school, who were truly genuinely mature enough to go into a secular university and glorify God, were often the exact same kids choosing to go to a Christian university because they knew that they had more maturing to do.

And on the flip side, oftentimes the kids were like, ah, I got this, I'll be fine. Oftentimes they went into the secular realm and they weren't prepared. And like you said, they seemingly abandoned the faith.

So that, yeah, it's a fantastic observation, very powerful and important for us to understand. Really, it comes down to the individual themselves and their relationship with the Lord, whether or not they'll thrive in either environment, but somebody who wants to glorify God has, I don't want to say better chances, they can glorify God anywhere, but they can definitely be equipped to glorify him better in an environment where people are pointing that person towards God's truth.

Well, that's absolutely true. I mean, in my job, in the role that I have lived in my life, I have spent a lot of time with a lot of college age students, 18 to 25. And I've met many who have been in a secular university who definitely were Christians, they loved the Lord, there was a commitment to Christ, but it was difficult to compare them to oftentimes a Christian college student who had been in the kind of atmosphere and classes that they were getting in that environment.

And we often say that one year in a Bible college will oftentimes speed up your spiritual growth by 10 years if you take full advantage of it. So there is a life-changing difference that comes to those that are in that opportunity.

The Future of Christian Higher Education in America

So, okay, so we're thinking to ourselves, you know, sacred, secular, what do we do? However, there seems to be a concern kind of creeping in. I know I've noticed it, I'm certain that you've noticed it.

The past 10 years or so have witnessed a number of Christian higher education institutions, colleges, and universities issuing their final diplomas. In fact, I believe another one just recently closed.

So I'm curious, what do you think is causing this? What are your thoughts concerning the future of Christian higher education in America? Because when the time comes, will there be good Christian options for higher education?

Well, I really think those are very, very important questions you've put out. And I think it's true that we have seen Christian colleges close in recent years, and that is always sad. These are challenging days for colleges of all kinds, not just Christian colleges, but community colleges, and particularly independent private colleges.

It's very challenging, and the basis for the challenge is very simple. It's finances. There are more options available today for college education than there ever has been, and some of them, to be honest, are very expensive.

And for many families, cost is at or near the top of the list when it comes to choosing college. Someone has said there's three reasons why someone chooses a college. The first reason is price. The second reason is price, and the third reason is price.

And when I say that, it's three different ideas. Number one, can I afford it? What's the cost? Number two, is this the best value for my money? And then number three, what's my return on an investment?

In other words, am I able to get a job? What kind of job can I get? So it's a challenging time. Most Christian colleges don't have the financial support beyond what they charge for tuition. Operating a college is very expensive.

I think I know that. So when you're highly dependent on tuition revenue to operate, you can be in a vulnerable position, especially in a competitive environment that focuses on cost. And all that being said, I definitely believe there's a future for Christian colleges that maintain, first of all, a genuine Christian identity.

I've told folks at Bob Jones University, hey, this is who we are. We have an identity, and this is our focal point, and then we have to be able to communicate, and we have to be able to deliver valuable outcomes.

You do come to college for a purpose. Bob Jones Senior used to say that at BJ, we don't teach you just how to make a living, we teach you how to live. And that's true, but we also teach you how to make a living.

And colleges like Bob Jones have to stay true to their mission, but we also have to adapt appropriately to the changing needs of today's Christian families and students. So we have to do what we can. We have to keep the cost as low as possible.

I think we are the second most affordable Christian college in the South, so we have to work at that. But we also have to provide the outcomes that people value, and that would include both shaping your life and enhancing your spiritual growth and preparing you to be successful in the workplace.

We had a CEO of a technology company of about 2 ,500 employees meet with me, and he said he wanted to hire Bob Jones graduates. I said, well, why do you want to hire them? And he said, well, primarily because of their soft skills.

And in the world today, you have hard skills, that's technical skills. But then there's also the soft skills, which are basically how to get along with people and how to be wise and how to use common sense.

And one of the major focal points we have here at Bob Jones University has to do with character development and being the kind of person that actually the world would like to hire. And so we make a big emphasis on that because you can come out with a degree, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you're ready to go into the world and work.

Yeah, and from a Christian perspective, really the second part of that is so much more important. God, you could argue that God obviously wants us to be good at what we do, but He never commanded us. He never commanded me necessarily to know how to program a computer, but He has commanded me to love others.

He has commanded me to be patient and kind. So, yeah, that is so, so important.

All right. Well, obviously, I was going to say the world calls them soft skills and we call them being filled with the spirit. Exactly. Yeah, some of the most important ones.

Absolutely. And I'm really proud of the changes that have been going on on campus since you've been there. You talk about wanting to present people what they're looking for, what they want to become, who they want to be, and reaching the generation that you have.

And I've been very happy to see what's been going on there. Now, OK, so we don't know the future. We don't know what's going to happen. Obviously, who's going to be opening? My oldest is 10. OK, so in eight years, what options are going to be out there?

So whether or not there are trustworthy options for biblical higher education in the next 20 years or so, for those parents who believe that the best way to equip their children for future life and godliness is to direct them toward higher education.

What's your advice for them? How can Christian parents better prepare their kids for graduate and postgraduate work, whether secular or sacred?

Preparing Children for Graduate Study and a Life of Purpose

Well, I think there are some number of key important things. And I think, first of all, is to create an expectation that attending college is kind of a given. I would say with my own children, I don't think we ever, ever in our conversation thought that high school education was enough.

Now, I know in a few situations that there are some that go through high school and they really do want to want to go into a workplace where really they don't really need a full on college education. And I understand that and sympathetic to that.

But as a general rule, at least in my family, I don't think our children ever thought that they would not go to college. Fact is, our kids thought that they had to get a master's degree. And so that was just a part of our conversation.

I have a son who's a rising junior in college, and we're already talking about his master's degree and where he's going to go. My two daughters both have a master's degree and I have a daughter working on a doctorate.

And so it's just sort of a given expectation. And then, of course, as they were growing up, I would take them to the Christian college and they would visit and they would get a feel for what it was like.

And, of course, they got to know college students. So it was just atmospheric. I think, secondly, because there is a financial challenge today, then you do have to work to plan ahead. Now, the reality is to save up four years of college in advance is almost, I mean, some can do it, but for many, it obviously is impossible.

So I think beginning to start a savings program, particularly as your child is growing up and then they get to a place where they can start working and they can start saving money, I think beginning to plan ahead by actually saving money for college.

And especially today, because of the recession of 2008, middle income families really have not had a lot of increase financially. And though costs have increased, a lot of times the revenue into the family, their salaries have not increased.

So your child working or saving is crucial. But then I think, secondly, beginning to realize early, like eighth or ninth grade, what are the potentials for financial assistance going into college? There are many, many opportunities for grants and scholarships.

For example, in our state, the state of South Carolina, you can get scholarships through the state by having the right kind of grades. And so a Christian college education could be more within reach financially if we knew how to plan ahead.

And I think finally, encouraging your children by really trying to help shape their vision of what God wants them to do. What is God calling you to do? What is his purpose? And for me as a young person, to realize God had a will for my life was one of the greatest motivations I've ever had.

And God has created us with a desire to accomplish things. God is a creator, and he's put that creative desire within us. And he's commanded us to have dominion over the earth. And so that requires growing and skill development and acquiring wisdom.

So a good college education is something our kids should aspire towards as stewards with the responsibility towards what God has given us to do.

That's fantastic. And I'm sitting here, I'm kind of making a parental checklist here myself. I'm like, okay, yeah, I've encouraged my kids. Yes, I need to keep doing that. In fact, actually nowadays, whereas before a college education was the thing that people were shooting for, like you said now, master's degree is definitely something that next step, it's just kind of assume that you're going to do that.

But I personally have been finding that depending on what you want to do, that's maybe not even enough. You need to plan that you're going to get a PhD. I was talking with Dr. Mazak, and it was a half-joking question.

I really do love Bob Jones and my time there, but in a half-joking way, I said, so what are the chances of me coming back and being a professor? And he said, well, are you thinking about getting your doctorate?

I was like, oh, okay. That's all right. It's at the bar pretty high there. Planning ahead? Yeah. I've got that on my list here. I think my kids have approximately two and a half days worth of tuition saved up, which is a good start.

But I love your last point. And really it's full circle, you know, helping them shape their vision of God's purpose in their life. And as you do that, I mean, I don't, I'm not sure if you're familiar, but a couple of hundred years ago, women and men were both going to seminary simply because they wanted to be better parents.

You know, they knew that God wanted them to rear their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. And so they went and got a seminary degree just so that they could be mom and dad. And I think shaping their vision of God's purpose is going to help circle them back around to your first points, understanding that attending college, getting higher education, growing as a servant of the Lord is a given.

So yeah, that's fantastic. Wonderful. So, okay. I want to kind of branch off a little bit. I really appreciate your time and I thank you for helping us as we, you know, as we're trying to become premeditated parents, it's a big push here on the show.

But I have one more question for you. And it's again, it's stepping away from the discussion of education a bit. In your time as a pastor, evangelist, and university president, I have to expect to some degree or another, you've had, you have some pretty well-informed thoughts about the quote unquote next generation.

So based off of the trajectory of Christian young people today, what direction do you see the church going? And what do you believe are the key areas that parents need to address with their children to prepare them to better fulfill the great commission, to better be a servant of the Lord, to better fulfill that purpose that God has for all of us?

Authority of Scripture, Spiritual Maturity, and Christian Influence

Oh, those are great questions. Well, I can only speak from my own experience and just the constant emphasis within our own ministry. A lot of my ministry has been with millennial young people. That would be those that were born between 80 and 2000.

And so I began my ministry full-time in 1980 and have been involved now for 37 years and 20 years I had about 57 different young people travel with me that were between the ages of 22 and 28. And that was before I came to Bob Jones to be the president.

So I've, I've lived with 20 somethings a long time. I've raised my own children. I think, I think if I were to, to, to put it down on some, just some simple things, I think first of all, I really have to come to a place where I am fully persuaded and committed to the authority of the scriptures.

That I really do believe in the fact that God has communicated to mankind in inspiration through his word and he has kept and has preserved his word for us today and that he has revealed himself and that we can know him and particularly through the person of his son, Jesus Christ and our personal relationship we have through the indwelling spirit and our relationship with his body in this world called the church.

So first and foremost, I think it has to be settled. This has to be settled, a commitment to the inspiration of the scripture. And then I think secondly, growing and maturing in, in spiritual, real biblical spiritual maturity as it's laid out in the New Testament and the apostle Paul speaks about being Christ-like and walking in the spirit and understanding the conflict between the two, between the flesh and the spirit and the perfection that's going to come through our resurrection and our glorification.

But in this present day, we have to live out that Christian experience. And these are the things that I've just persistently emphasized throughout all of our ministry to walk in the spirit, to know God, to know his word, to live in his word.

I think of my children were sitting here and my youngest is 20 and my oldest is 35. So I think they were going to say, well, dad, that's what you've always told us. And that's what I'm telling the student body at Bob Jones University.

God has given us his word. We need to know his word. We need to walk in his word. And then we need to live out our Christian life and experience in the world where we are. And I think education is a part of it.

I don't think education is the end all to mankind. I think the end all is serving God and doing his will. But but I also believe this, that historically Satan has wanted to marginalize his people. Let's put them in a corner.

Let them do their own thing just as long as they don't bother us. And when I look at the scriptures, I look at people like Joseph and Daniel and Nehemiah, and they rose to the highest ranks of society that they possibly could.

And they had influence for God in the world in which they're living in. And so we need some Joseph, some Daniels, some Nehemiahs to rise up and and and be influencers in the world where God has put them.

So I think a Christian should go as far as they can and still at the same time, maintain their Christian faith and testimony, just like Daniel did in Babylon. Amen. Amen.

Fantastic. I, I completely agree. One of the things that we hear at Victory Academy for Boys and on Truth, Love, Parents, we're just founded and grounded on is that we are decidedly Christian, that the authority of God's word is the end all to end all.

If there are any questions that need to be asked, if there's any changes that need to be made in life, we go to God's word to find it. So I could not agree with you more. And that's what we need to hear, because I think too often we kind of get distracted by the the material of this life.

And it's really easy to parent throughout a day, you know, brush your teeth and eat well and go play outside. But we, we don't tie it back to the reason God has us here on this earth. Dr. Pettit, thank you so much for your time.

I actually, I look forward to being in the Greenville area myself later this summer. So, you know, you know, maybe we can get together, connect, because, you know, you got you got plenty of free time.

Come on by. I'd love to see you. Amen. Awesome. Thank you, Aaron. God bless you. I encourage all your premeditated parents out there to check out the links I've included in the description, regardless of how old your kids are.

There you'll find Bob Jones University's website, as well as Dr. Pettit's Twitter feed. And as a side note, if you're not familiar with all the amazing music the Steve Pettit Evangelistic team recorded and published under Hart Publications, I'm going to throw that link in there as well, because you just have to check it out.

Of course, I need to thank Ray and Carolyn for their financial support of Truth Love Parent. Ray attended Bob Jones University back in the day, and I know that he would put his full stamp of approval on today's show.

So I thank them for making it possible. Our next episode is called Parenting 100 Miles an Hour. You will not want to miss this. So much of parenting is hard, but I believe it's hard partially because we perceive it to be hard.

Don't miss Parenting 100 Miles an Hour. We don't know what the future holds for anything, let alone higher education, but we do know that when our kids get there, God will have given us everything we need to parent them for life and godliness.

See you next time. Truth Love Parent is part of the Evermind Ministries family and is dedicated to helping you become an intentional premeditated parent. Join us next time as we search God's word for the truth your family needs today.