The Apologetic Dog lied about Travis Thomas??

The Crossfire Around the Debate and the Accusation of Lying

Tell me were you surprised that you realize this debate. You were actually stepping in some some crossfire going on. Outside of the debate. Did you start to realize that you were stepping into something else a little bit disconnected?

I.

Did there were some things that Travis kind of brought up right out of the gate during his cross-exam and that he was just chomping at the bit to get to. Between. So if you Watched the debate and this is your first time meeting Jeremiah's in this video Jeremiah is the one who was hung up on.

So that is a.

That is gonna be kind of an infamous act that I was pretty taken him that kind of infuriated me in the moment I thought it was it was.

You look shocked when you do it like really is this going on and to kind of give people a little bit of context. I think it was his first cross-examination question. He asked you is. You know if somebody Tells a lie and they don't repent basically are they lost or something like that and you're like Yeah, lying is a sin, you know, and you got no problem saying that yeah.

And you're like the difference is we believe those who are truly regenerate or in Christ will repent and do those things, right? Mm-hmm. And so what he was trying you're like and then eventually you start realizing okay, this is not pertaining to the debate at all and it's because.

And we're gonna play a clip here in a second of me getting hung up on the infamous moment. But there's been some accusations thrown at me from him. And I love Travis to death and I I've tried to communicate with him as long as I possibly could.

He is he has blocked me banned me multiple times and come came back knocking at my door and I'm just like hey I'm I've not went anywhere. I'm I've been here the whole time. It's I want to play this. Because You start realizing okay.

He's trying to take this elsewhere and like you said you were starting to clue in that all he's trying to pit you against me like that's that's what he's trying to do and I could not wait because I really wanted to ask him a question.

Actually, I wanted to ask him two questions. And so when I called him on my phone, it was blocked and I'm like Oh, I got more phones, baby. I'm about to go in the room and get one real fast. And so check this clip out.

I.

Recognize your voice. I know I knew it was.

And then look at Travis. He's like, oh, yeah, we're going this we're going well.

You can see if you're watching this video if you go back and rewind it. You can see Travis's eyebrows like when he when it clicks with him who's calling.

Hi, I'm gonna I'm gonna back it up cuz you're right. Go ahead caller. I am and then watch this watch this. Hey, he looks at you like oh.

This is what he's what he's about to do. Yeah, and he knows he shouldn't have done it. No, he knows he shouldn't.

Yeah, cuz we're gonna see that it's unfair. You didn't get a list of people that you could prohibit and then yeah, sorry.

We didn't have a moderator and I felt fine with doing that because I. But as many debates I've watched I feel like I know the rules like I'm gonna respect your time. I'm going to you know. During the cross-examination.

I'm gonna do my best to just ask questions, you know, not my time to make statements, but to ask questions. And generally, I think we did okay on that I but I didn't think we would have a situation like this.

Which is where we probably should have had a moderator handling the phone calls, right? So check it out. Well.

Are you gonna are you gonna openly repent? This is Jeremiah North here. And you're the one that was on Desmond. You're on Desmond's YouTube and you said that I wouldn't debate you and you laughed about it when I sent you a text two days.

Before.

So I mean and Tim already said that if you don't repent you probably never say well.

Just let it pass the question man.

We're not taking Jeremiah North. Here's call or trade.

Well, you didn't give me a list of people I could prohibit from calling. I'm sorry. It's my show. That's what he says. Yes, I'm sorry. My show my show.

The Debate Tactic: “My Show” and the Phone-Call Dispute

Oh, yeah, he did. I was like yes, cuz people don't know this. I was I told some other people anytime He brings up my name. I'll do 20 push-ups. And so he only mentioned my name. Explicitly once in the debate.

So I did 20 push-ups and then he alluded to me in the debate one time and I'm like it didn't count. He didn't say my name, but he knew I'd called in and it's like man I'm gonna support my brother here and you know, I've I've kind of stepped in decide inside of Travis's mind.

No, he thinks and so I'm like, I want to find the best questions that he has to account for and anybody's curious. The first question I was gonna ask him was I would like for him to give us the definition of what begging the question means.

Just to see if he could because I have a feel I don't think he would know how to define that and then it then It would go over to you to explain. This is this is the paradigm of the Church of Christ. They're just assuming because they have the name Church of Christ.

So they say that they're a Christian. They therefore are not all would do that. But Travis is the king of begging the question. And so I would I was just wanting to see if on the spot he could define it talking about how when you assume.

You make an assumption in your argument meaning you have a conclusion that you're smuggling into one of the premises. So that was gonna be number one and number two. I was I was gonna ask it was their whole deal is.

You got to do something right in order to be saved. Faith is really belief in action. And that's where you got to be equipped of a definition of words. And I was gonna ask him what works did the paralytic do in Luke 5 when he said man your sins are forgiven because last I Check he was a paralytic and couldn't do anything and it's in the same passage where he loves to say they that Jesus saw their faith.

Meaning their works, but it was just his friends bringing them down through the roof. But the one whose sins were forgiven, which I do think it was the collective deal. He didn't do anything. That's I wanted I wasn't gonna argue with him.

You know, I mean, I was just gonna throw that grenade out there. I'm like, all right, y 'all have fun.

Clarifying the Claim That Travis “Won’t Debate Me”

So I.

Did want to bring some clarity real quick Tim on this because you know, he's saying that I'm a liar I said and I'm gonna pull the message up. But basically just to kind of bring people up to speed is I made a comment that Travis won't debate me.

I've tried many many times. Challenged him to debate original sin talking about the sovereignty of God at one point. I was like, hey you wanted to debate John 3 5 let's do it and he told me repeatedly.

No, it'll be a waste of time. I'm not interested we've done this blah blah blah blah and then I don't know how this came about but Travis and a member at 12 5 church Adam Carmichael. He won't mail me saying his name.

They were able to connect and I think it was Travis reach out to him and say hey, I'm ready for a debate. Would you like to do it? And and Adam said yes only one place though the apologetic dog. And Travis is like, okay, and so we were super kind to one another and our correspondence and I'm like, dude I'll be a moderator.

My main job is to keep time and make sure there's not ad hominem name-calling going on. And we were all cordial and then the day before. His day before the debate. He messaged me saying You're basically your boy.

Adam might not be ready. So you may have to step in for him and debate for him and I'll give you more time. I don't want people to make the excuse that I didn't debate a pastor and Yeah, he said that but I take that as a pure insult towards Adam like Adams preparing for this.

You know, I'm obviously his overseer like we're holding each other accountable. And so when I say that he won't debate me I'm telling people Me offering a challenge to him to debate XY and Z. He's always turned that down.

I don't consider this. Truly him saying hey, I'd love to debate. Can we talk about a proposition that? We would like to hash out to me. I see this as a a strategy or tactic of trying to divide me and Adam me saying hey, you know Adam step aside.

Let me let me get in there and let me do this for you. It's like, you know, who do you think you are type thing? I was trying to think of an analogy tell me if this works if somebody refused to play basketball one-on-one and then I said But if you tie your your arm behind your back then I'll play and then you just walk off saying yeah.

This dude's not serious. And then you tell people he won't play me a one-on-one and he's like, he's a liar. He's a liar. I said I would it's like yeah, if the rules were changed a little bit in your favor.

You know, I mean and so that's what was going on behind the scenes that I'm a liar. And I'm over here like you have shot down every time I've challenged you to a debate. And so I wanted to bring this on the screen.

This is where it all started. Desmond encourage people go check out the Knights of God made this very Very inviting graphic of Travis this. I did not make this but you can see towards the top. He tagged me in it, right and he was just saying hey go check out this debate where this individual does a debate and things.

Like that, so I'm tagged in it and then in the comments, you'll see this is what I said. This is initially what I said to him. There's two paragraphs, but I had just the first paragraph for a matter of minutes.

I said yeah, Travis doesn't like to talk about the Campbellite history. I've asked him to debate a number of times and he tells me it would be a waste of time but he doesn't mind to debate one of the members at my church and People get mad at me for putting the laughing.

That's just that's just who I am. I chuckle, you know, and it's like sometimes you either get mad and frustrated or you're just gonna laugh. You know, I mean, so I'm just like dude doesn't mind coming on the poly jack dog, but it's not to debate me.

You know, and so when he did that He was so mad and he sent me a text message and so I edited it and I said for whatever reason Travis texted me super mad and did not. That I did not include him asking me the day before his debate with Adam if I would fill in for Adam.

Because he couldn't handle it. I said, yeah, right like that is actually accepting my challenge to debate. And so just to show people the correspondence there. This is what he said to me, dude. You're a dishonest false teacher man.

You look stupid letting me destroy your false doctrine. That's why all these ignorant faith alone guys are coming out. You are done. No con no contact me. You are a waste of energy like them and so that's how he's Constantly treated me as saying things like that and I don't get online and make a big deal and make a fuss about I mean You've been a part of his little roast videos.

I call him the highlight reel and He's free to do that and I'm not gonna get been out of shape and I just told him in our text message I've asked you a number of times to debate different topics. I haven't challenged you on standing for truth and Then crickets, you know, and then him getting mad.

So sorry you had to step into the crossfire a little bit there. But you handled it well, I thought.

Why the Offer to Debate Adam Was Seen as a Tactic

Yeah, well he I knew of the situation because Travis had messaged me Like two days after he and Adams debate kind of explaining explaining that he would debate Jeremiah and that he did offer to Switch opponents, which I immediately recognized that as kind of an inappropriate move but it was kind of a way to arrange the pieces like you mentioned to say that he would in fact debate you and that you were being dishonest and it was totally inappropriate to Not only hang up your phone call, but to try to pit that against me.

And the debate to pit you and I against one another which was absolutely his goal. He was trying to do that garden path like you and I've talked about to where eventually he gets to say Ah, well Jeremiah, you know.

And so when he started talking about it in some details when I said, I'm not gonna.

I'm not gonna comment on this. You handled that very well, and I just like to everybody I mean anybody that's watching this probably understands. What would be a lie as if I if I said, oh, he never said that to me.

He never said I mean that would be a straight line. I'm saying I don't buy that as him actually wanting to debate me. And it's not an accepting of any one of my challenges to debate to me. I see it is very tactical on his part to try to pit me and Adam.

So anyway, I don't I don't take it very personally and and you knew that about me. I'm over here like I love Travis and I like having a good time and having fun. And I do like to you know. Change gears and be serious and talk about truth and the gospel when we need to do that.

He does. By the way, there is there will be another opportunity to ask Travis some questions. He has a I believe a faith alone debate coming up on standing for truth in February. So there will be an opportunity for some super chats to get some questions to Travis.

It will be a moderated debate and he will not be able to end the call.

The Church of Christ, the Body of Christ, and Denominational Critique

So again one body which is the body his body which is his church the church of Christ. I mean, if you just had some a little bit of common sense. You think he drove by these denominations where it says grandma's church Baptist Church Methodist Church live church.

I mean he drove an hour 20 minutes here and they act like they give God the glory.

Church.

And I deny redemption man, if you just had some a little bit of common sense. Very sad very sad.