August 7, 2019 Show with Harold Senkbeil on “The Care of Souls: Cultivating a Pastor’s Heart”

The Radio Show Introduction and the Theme of Pastoral Care

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown, Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It's iron sharpens iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio.

Wishing you all happy Wednesday on the 7th day of August 2019 and I'm thrilled to have on the program for the very first time Harold L Sankpile. He is the executive director of doc solid Excuse me doxology the Lutheran Center for spiritual care.

And he's an author with nearly five decades of pastoral experience today. We're going to be discussing his new book the care of souls Cultivating a pastor's heart and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to iron sharpens iron radio Harold L. Sankpile.

What a privilege to be with you Chris and am I pronouncing your name correctly? That's pretty close. That's so. Isn't that exactly what I said. Sankpile you did. Well.

Before we go into the theme today of the care of souls cultivating a pastor's heart. Tell us about doxology the Lutheran Center for spiritual care.

I'd love to great. Well, if anybody wants to look more deeply into this ministry go to.

Doxology dot us doxology dot us do x o l o g y dot u s and. We have a tradition here on iron sharpens iron radio when we have first-time guests if you wouldn't mind giving us something of Your own salvation story and I know that these stories differ widely With my guests very often.

They differ widely because some are raised in Christian homes. They can't remember ever not being a Christian. They can't remember ever not loving and following Jesus Christ. Some folks more like myself Came to faith in our mid -20s.

Some of us are obviously much later, but there was more of a crisis experience in my life more of a stark contrast. From dark to light if you will, but if you could tell us about your own religious upbringing if any and what?

Pivotal and providential occurrences in your life were raised up by God to draw you to himself save you. And draw you into the ministry.

Okay, well that's a you a baptism thought maybe. Good. Amen. And what. Specific.

Religious atmosphere or Christian atmosphere were you raised in. Were you raised in a Missouri Synod Lutheran home or.

Some other branch of the Lutheran Church. Well, you put your finger right on it. I don't know. Yes, I would.

Doxology the Lutheran Center for Spiritual care and counsel. Would that be exclusively Missouri Synod and is it more broad than that?

Well praise God and once again, that's doxology dot us. I want to read a couple of the.

Commendations for your book the care of souls cultivating a pastor's heart by people whom I have interviewed on this program. Also people who have written endorsements commendations for this radio program iron sharpens iron who have Obviously also written commendations for your book.

The first is Michael Horton. Dr. Michael Horton, who is the Jay Gresham Machen professor of systematic theology and apologetics at Westminster Theological Seminary in, California and he is not a Lutheran he is a member of the United Reformed Church of North America and He says about your book anyone who thinks that Luther has nothing to say about sanctification church life and discipline and Pastors and pastoral ministry will think differently after reading this book more important than the historical correction.

All of us can only come away from the care of souls With a remarkably different view of what it means to be called to care for the sheep who belong to the ones who care for the shepherd as well. I hope that this book becomes standard reading now and in generations to come.

Especially wherever thoughtful leaders are seeking a practice that truly follows from the good news. That's a very powerful endorsement. Also, my friend. Dr. Michael AG Haken who was just my guest a couple of days ago.

In fact on Monday, he was my guest. He is the professor of church history and biblical spirituality at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary he says an enormously helpful book and We have many other commendations for this book as well and this is a Title That immediately when I read it the care of souls cultivating a pastor's heart.

I'm not a pastor, but when I from the outside looking in when I see what Is going on in the broader Evangelical Church across the United States. When I speak to people and hear the criticisms the critiques the complaints that they have.

This seems to be the primary issue. That is lacking in the body of Christ. We have many great orators in the church we have on both sides of Biblical orthodoxy those that are heretical that have gained enormous popularity and have drawn Huge crowds and followers and so on.

Who are just such? Great orators or dare I say performers. That they have become extremely popular and on the other side. We even have those that are very biblically orthodox very sound in. They're not only hermeneutics, but they're homiletics, and they are not into entertainment Per se, but the the value of their oratory skills and the power that they demonstrate from behind the pulpit has at times and more times than we care to admit has been much more of a primary element that The hearer's desire to experience or see or hear then the shepherding aspect of the pastoral office and Could this be one of the reasons that you saw need to write this book that you saw the shepherding aspect?

Lacking in the body of Christ. Well, I would say actually Chris I was kind of a of emphasis on this whole aspect of but I came to Yankee. But you do different or this with the gospel to apply this now.

There has been a.

Critique of Mainline denominations that would even conclude that would even include the Lutherans even those on the side of Biblical orthodoxy, I'm not. I'm not referring to Elka or the more liberal or dare I say apostate churches that would wear the label Lutheran.

I'm speaking more of conservative Missouri Synod Wisconsin Synod and others and and some of the other denominations where they might be a minority in the main lines where they they're truly Remaining faithful to the scriptures the inerrancy of the scriptures and so on.

But perhaps you could correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard the complaint that very often even when you have biblical orthodoxy being taught in many of the mainline churches that you have a view of the pastors the elders the overseers that Discipline is not really their job.

They would rather just Preach the word teach the word faithfully and the weeds are good. The weed is going to grow up at the tares. You have to leave it up to God to separate it and there seems to be a lacking from what I have heard in the discipline Area, would you agree with that assessment?

And do you think that needs to be corrected?

Yes, I could say that I personally owe my.

Life to church. Discipline I. I had Myself been put under the discipline of my own pastors and elders when I had fallen into a very deeply.

Unrepentant.

Alcohol addiction for a number of years and after having been sober for 18 years fell away from Or should I say repented of. After after 18 years of having repented of drunkenness I Backslid and became a drunkard again and if it wasn't for church discipline and getting me into a Christian ministry that was dedicated to bringing recovery to addicts of all kinds a biblically sound ministry.

Hebron colony ministries and Boone, North Carolina. I don't think I would be sitting here with air in my lungs and a beating heart. Speaking to you. So I hear you and I that's just an I. Try to remember to bring that up as often as I can when I'm interviewing somebody that where the the subject.

Would lend me to mention this because so many people in Fact your average person might be so terrified of the notion or not even terrified. They might even just be outraged or indignant or proud too proud to undergo.

A.

Church discipline and they may just run away from it. They make they leave that church and either go to another church or A church that doesn't practice discipline or they may just hide somewhere another never enter the doors of a church again.

But I I just wanted to let people know that the story doesn't need to end.

In a horrible fashion when you're under church discipline act of love.

Amen.

I.

Yeah, I had the privilege of interviewing dr. Odin before he went home to be with the Lord. Fascinating. Oh, wow, yeah, he had a remarkable testimony of being converted out of real leftist apostasy into biblical orthodoxy and Had the privilege of interviewing him probably just about a year before he went home to be with the Lord.

In fact, I would amen and if you anybody listening wants to go on the iron Sherpins iron radio archive and type in OD en.

You'll get the interview link for my interview with dr. Tom Seldon who was in the United Methodist Church for many years and and Shocked and outraged many of his very liberal friends when he had come to a biblically Orthodox View of the the scriptures and of doctrine and so on.

What a Pastor Is and Christ-Centered Pastoral Care

Well, let's start off here with a very Obvious question to ask since we are talking about a pastor's heart. What is a pastor?

And specifically, what would you or how would you describe Christo centric pastoral care? So to know nothing among you except he must increase and we're going to our first break right now.

If anybody wants to join us with a question of your own Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Please as always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's say You disagree with your own pastor on something that we are discussing today or you're you're a pastor.

You disagree with your own congregation or your Your fellow elders or your own denomination over something that you want to ask. We obviously would want you to remain anonymous in those cases. Might be just something else that you've experienced as a Christian.

Perhaps you've been somehow abused by a pastor or in a church. And you don't want to identify yourself. That's an obvious reason, but if it's not a personal and private reason if it's just a general question We would ask you please to include your first name at least your city and state in your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA Don't go away. God willing. We are going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors with more of Harold sink value and his discussion of the book the care of souls cultivating a pastor's heart when iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been sticking with or Switching to the NASB. I'm dr. Joseph Piper.

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I hope to hear from you soon.

God bless you. As host of iron sharpens iron radio I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations. A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world. They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship God in spirit and truth.

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I'm James white of Alvin Omega ministries and my friend Chris Arnson and I are excited to be attending another G3 conference together in Atlanta Georgia Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th on a theme that is vitally important to all of us worship matters.

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Church Discipline, Pastoral Authority, and the Care of Souls

Welcome back. This is Chris Arnson. If you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with about 90 minutes to go is Harold L Sinkbile executive director of doxology the Lutheran Center for spiritual care and counsel.

He's an author with nearly five decades of pastoral experience and today we are addressing his new book the care of souls Cultivating a pastor's heart. If you have a question, our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence. If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, and we do have a Question from Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania and Harrison asks.

I know that we are to be imitators of Jesus in most ways and especially pastors are to be imitators of the Good Shepherd. But are there also ways that pastors should never imitate Jesus because there are certain things he said and did.

That he only had the privilege and right to do since he was the God man.

Good question. Most people's wives. Well, thank you.

Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania and guess what you have won by the generosity of Lexham press. You've won a free copy of the care of souls cultivating a pastor's heart. What we go and what we are urging anyone who wins this book to do is if you are not a pastor yourself.

After you finished reading it or perhaps even without reading it give it to your pastor or give it to a pastor who you know and love so that these books will be made most use of. For the the category and content they possess the care of souls cultivating a pastor's heart.

Thank you very much Harrison. We need your full mailing address in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania to ship that out to you. This next question from a listener, I think very closely relates to the question that Harrison asked.

We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania. Who asks in the Lutheran Church? Is there much a problem with? Authoritarianism as there has been very frequently found in Reformed Baptist and Calvinistic churches.

For a long long time. Yes and back in the day. Marianism, of course. Yes, and I have to make sure I clarify what I mean or what I meant by the.

Last question Harrison's Question how it connected to this. I didn't mean to insinuate that that Christ himself Has if we were to imitate him As a pastor that we would be doing something wrong. What I meant by that was that very often when you have an authoritarian problem in a church the the pastor even if Unconsciously seems to be usurping the role of Christ in that church.

He is taking him upon himself privileges And rights that only God has he is commanding things of his sheep that That are not even biblical at times and The glory that the pastor sometimes seeks is is deserved of only God alone.

So do you follow where I'm coming from that there seems to be?

Let me also chime in since I'm a Reformed Baptist that.

It's not only Reformed Baptist that have a problem with authoritarianism And I think that that is being a very greatly National scale perhaps global scale being corrected in many congregations and that there are much more.

There are far more pastors that I have come to know and been in contact with Who have a true shepherds heart a true under shepherds heart Who are not? Authoritarian in their bent or in their actions, so I don't want our listeners to think that every Reformed Baptist Church On their neighborhood is guilty of authoritarianism nor should they automatically assume that they're authoritarian just because they're Reformed Baptist.

Amen and we have a Question from Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina and Grady is a very faithful listener and very generous Financial supporter of iron sharpens iron radio. It's always a pleasure to have Grady Contribute a good question to the show and his question is great show brother Chris brother Harold.

Would this also include the care for souls that aren't? Members of a pastor's church But attend occasionally that they would know the importance of attending and becoming an important part of the body.

Undeclined. So there's a yes, and thank you very much.

Arnie in Perry County and you've also won a free copy of the care of souls cultivating a pastor's heart. Make sure we have your full mailing address in Perry County, Pennsylvania and I don't know if I forgot to mention that to Harrison and Mechanics Berg as well, but You are also Getting a book.

Oh, and I just made a mistake here. The last question was from Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina. You are also getting a free book Grady and So, please make sure we have your full mailing address in Asheboro, North Carolina.

And by the way CV BBS Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service. They are the ones shipping out these books they are a sponsor of this program and so we want to thank both Lexham press and Also CV BBS comm Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service Who are shipping out the books that Lexham press has donated to us?

Let's see here we have another question from John and Bangor, Maine and John says since Jesus was both a leader and a servant if Our under shepherds who are our pastors and elders are to imitate Christ Don't they need to demonstrate both leadership and servanthood.

And it goes out ahead of you mean like CEOs of corporations and that kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. Followed that model and almost amen. Well, we are going to our.

Midway break right now our midway break just to Remind you is a longer than normal break because grace life radio in Lake City, Florida 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida they require of us an elongated break in the middle of the show because they according to FCC regulations have to Localize iron sharpens iron radio to Lake City, Florida and therefore they have to air their own public service announcements and commercials.

So while we air our globally heard commercials, they're gonna be airing their own local Lake City, Florida commercials and public service announcements. So, please use this time wisely write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them because The more you patronize our advertisers the more likely they will remain our advertisers.

Which means the more likely we will remain on the air because we depend upon the advertising dollars of our sponsors to exist so please write down the information provided by our advertisers and Respond to those ads as much as you can and also write down questions for Harold L sinkpile.

About doxology the Lutheran I'm sorry about his book the care of souls cultivating a pastor's heart. And of course, you could ask questions about doxology to the Lutheran Center for spiritual care and counsel.

Feel free to ask questions about that or anything under the Umbrella of pastoral care past the office of the pastor, etc. That is what primarily we are discussing today so please send in your questions to Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com and As always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence. If you live outside of the USA, don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages with more of Harold sinkpile and our topic today the care of souls Cultivating a pastor's heart.

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That's wrbc .us as host of iron sharpens iron radio. I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations. A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world. They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship God in Spirit and truth.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God-centered focus. Reading preaching and hearing the Word of God. Singing psalms hymns and spiritual songs. Baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship.

Performed with faith joy and sobriety. Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey. At.

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When iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been sticking with or Switching to the NASB.

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Tony Costa professor of apologetics in Islam at the Toronto Baptist Seminary and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

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