WWUTT 835 Q&A Responding to the Lauren Daigle Debacle?

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This past Sunday, I released a video of musician Lauren Daigle saying she didn't know if homosexuality was a sin.

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The creator of the show in which she said that has contacted me, and we're going to compare his email with what the

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Bible says when we understand the text. This is when we understand the text, studying the word of God and the spirit of truth.

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For whoever has God's word and keeps it, loves God. Find all our videos through our website, www .utt

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.com. Here once again is Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. So I started doing something new on Facebook, which

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I know you just love it when I add something else to what I'm already doing. I was getting a frozen look there when she did her little mm -hmm.

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She's still giving me the look. Anyway, so new what videos that are now being posted, and comments are being generated for those videos, and now

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I'm doing a follow -up video to respond to some of those comments. Trying it out. Trying it out, right.

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Yes. You're going to see how it works. So the comments that I get on Facebook will be just left for that video response.

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They won't necessarily make their way onto the podcast. Questions that we're responding to on the podcast are pretty much strictly email.

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Okay. Those things that we receive by email. Okay. So today, that's what we got. All of this is email. Mm -hmm.

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And if you want to send an email to the program, it's when we understand the text at gmail .com.

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Now as advertised on Twitter, and I think also our

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Facebook page, it got posted there as well. Okay. I've got a response today from the creators of the radio program where Lauren Daigle did her interview a little more than a week ago and made her statement about how she wasn't sure if homosexuality is a sin.

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Right. So we're going to get to that email in just a moment. I'm going to read it from the Dominic Natty Show, but let's start with something a little more lighthearted.

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Let's. Okay. So this email comes from somebody whose name wasn't actually attached to the email.

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It was a number. Oh, okay. But they started the email with, hi again. So apparently I've gotten something from them before.

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Hello. Hi again. I'd just like to thank you and your wife, afraid of spelling her name wrong.

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It happens. It's okay. For your ministry. You and many others have helped me really come to know

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God through his word. And I pray you continue doing the work faithfully. I only knew of the

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YouTube videos, but I recently discovered your podcasts and your teachings on the book of John have been a blessing to me.

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I'd also like to thank you specifically for the Friday Q and A's hearing you and your wife interact with each other with the word has made my day.

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And if anyone ever tells me that being a Christian means you're boring and uptight, I'll just play them a clip of you too.

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Anyone can easily sense the love God inspired between you. God bless you both.

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Well, the fastest way to my heart is to compliment my wife. So you and I can be friends.

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I think that was a good email. Thank you so much for that. Yes. Thank you.

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And see how much of a delight you are to people and how much you deprived everybody last week by not being here.

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Okay. So I offered. She did. I did. She wanted to be on the program last week and I told her, no, go to bed.

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Yep. You did. And that's where I went. Fell asleep. I made her go to bed.

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I knew what we were going to be talking about last week with the Seventh -day Adventism stuff. And you were going to chime in more at the beginning of that, but then you were steadily going to be declining all the way through the program.

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Well, being that whenever I went to bed, I actually just fell asleep. Like there was no in between.

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Yep. It was. It was. Head hit the pillow. Yeah. Gone. Yeah. She has an incredible ability to do that.

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Most of the time. Yeah. Last night, not so much. Last night, I was up until five. Yeah. I'm laying in bed and I'm going.

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It was too cold. I'm not tired. I'm just laying here. My eyes are wide open.

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Yeah. I don't even drink coffee. But you do have tea. I do have tea. Sweet tea.

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Yeah. I don't think that's really. Isn't that like a third the caffeination of coffee or something? I have no idea. I don't know what the amount is.

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I'm sure my cups of coffee have quite a bit of caffeine in it. Yeah. Considering how much of a pick -me -up, there's really quite a difference between you on coffee and you not.

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I know. It's terrible. But you're. I'm one of those that needs the cup that says, not yet.

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Don't talk to me yet. Not yet. Still wait. Oh, with the fill line on it. Yeah.

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Right. And then it's like, OK, maybe. Like it turns colors as you drink it down.

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Oh, does it? Yeah. Yeah. I've just seen the one with the lines on it. I haven't seen like the color change. I thought they had the color change.

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It could be. I don't know. It was a long time ago that I saw it, but I was like, I need that. I really don't need it.

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But it'd be fun. Somebody just gifted me with a coffee cup this past week and I didn't have the heart to tell him

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I don't drink coffee. That's all right. You give it to me. You've got plenty of coffee cups. I do.

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But I do have people over that drink coffee, too. And I share. That's true. But you drink hot cocoa.

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Sometimes. Not often, but you do. You just changed coffee makers. Can I still do hot chocolate in that coffee maker?

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Because the previous coffee maker you had was that single serve cup. You pour the water in.

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You put it under the deal. Hot water comes out. Or if you have coffee in the filter, then it's coffee. Yeah. So I could do the hot water that way and then make hot chocolate.

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Can you do that with this new coffee maker? OK. But it comes out really hot. So you have to wait like five to ten minutes.

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Well, it did with the last one, too. Yeah. I was surprised. It wasn't even through the cup as hot as that last one was. That was some hot water.

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Yeah. So I guess if it does that, then I can I can drink some hot chocolate. But yeah. We have a trail.

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Not a not a coffee drinker. Well, that's going to come up because people make fun of the fact that I don't drink coffee.

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Well, not everybody doesn't drink coffee. I don't know. It seems like if you're an

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American, you drink coffee. You eat bacon and you drink coffee. That's, you know, except for PETA.

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But they're not American. They bring home the bagels. Yeah. Bring home the bagels.

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Give me a break. We're not OK. We've rabbit trailed enough. We're not going to go. We're not going to get on that one. Let's get to the order.

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OK, so back back to his email. Let's get to the order of the day here. Oh, you want to go back to the happy email.

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The one where you were complimented. Yes. I whenever I first became a

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Christian and and was looking at dating in the Christian world realm.

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Looking for a Christian man. Yes. Yes. I had the impression that all Christians were boring and uptight as well.

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And then I met this man and I was like, hey, he looks pretty fun. Well, thank you. Yeah. That was my first impression.

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So it was your before you met me. I met you. Right. And that was my first impression that that is the truth.

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She met me before I met her. Yeah. He doesn't remember. I don't remember the first occasion. That's true.

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I have proof. So yeah. Proof. Yeah. Because I said your hair was long. Oh, that's right. Yeah. She remembers what my hair was a little on the shaggier side.

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Yeah. Went all the way down to my shoulders, though. No, no, not quite. It was like, yeah, that was my early 20s.

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I don't think I don't think I did that again. I don't think I did that again. No, it wasn't that long.

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So before you, you met a hip hop and guy like me. Where's your idea that you were going to have to meet a non -Christian man and make him a

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Christian? Is that what you thought? No, I just thought I'd be alone. Oh, for the rest of my life.

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Well, God bless God for having other plans there. You were not destined to be a spinstress.

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OK, we're all we're on the the Dominic Natty email here.

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Yes. So here's here's what I want to do. I've got clips from Dominic Natty's program in which he was interviewing musician

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Lauren Daigle, Grammy and Dove Award winner. She's she's a CCM artist.

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I don't know how else to describe her. She's a singer. OK, most of you know, you know who Lauren Daigle is.

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I have to explain who I am, but you know who Lauren Daigle is. The so anyway,

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Dominic Natty had an interview with her in which he asked her what she thought about homosexuality.

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Did she think it was a sin? And I'm going to play. And then I took that and made that segment of his interview into a what video?

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Correct. Because at the end of Lauren Daigle's answer, she said, and if you know the answer to this, let me know, because I'm learning, too.

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So that's basically what I did with the video is I showed where in the scriptures it says that homosexuality is a sin.

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So I'm going to go ahead and play that first. I'm going to play the what video that started all this, which is now at this point, less than a week after it was made, has been seen over 100000 times.

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Yeah, it's pretty hot between YouTube and Facebook. It's pretty hot.

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It's hotter than most of the videos I've done. Right. That's what I meant by hot. It's kind of trendy.

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Yeah, I don't I just don't think of what that way, you know, we're hot right now. Well, yeah, I don't know any words.

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Well, you know, hot. So apparently that. So it's because I'm so cold.

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This room is a little bit cold for her. I feel fine. I don't know what she's upset. We as I've joked before, we just record this out of our basement.

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Here's the what video as it was made. It doesn't have music behind it, unlike most what videos. So it's just a cold open and start.

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And you'll hear the interview in the middle. Now, I did edit this interview slightly. I did edit

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Lauren's interview slightly, just cutting out repeated places where she was repetitious and also long pauses.

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But it didn't change her answer in any way. So here's the video. And then we'll go to the actual interview with Dominic and Lauren.

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In a recent interview, Grammy and Dove Award winner Lauren Daigle was asked her opinion about homosexuality.

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Do you feel that homosexuality is a sin? You know, I can't honestly answer on that.

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I have too many people that I love that they are homosexual. I don't know. I can't say one way or the other.

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I'm not God. So when people ask questions like that, that's what my go to is.

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I just say, read the Bible and find out for yourself. And when you find out, let me know, because I'm learning, too.

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OK, Lauren. Well, in Matthew 19, Jesus said, Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said, therefore, a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife and the two shall become one flesh?

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Leviticus 2013 says that if a man lies with a man as with a woman, they've committed an abomination.

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The Apostle Paul refers to this in First Corinthians six, when he says that men who have homosexuality will not inherit the kingdom of God.

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Revelation 2215 says among those who are outside the kingdom are the dogs, a word used in Deuteronomy to describe homosexual men.

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Romans 1 26 through 27 says that those whose hearts are darkened exchange natural relations for those contrary to nature.

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Women burn with passion for women and men commit shameless acts with men. If you care for your homosexual friends, the loving thing to do would be to tell them to repent and follow

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Jesus. Don't be flippant about behavior. God has promised he will judge when we understand the text.

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Yeah, kind of difficult to come out of that saying, OK, now you're listening to the podcast again, not the video when there's no music behind the video.

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Hello again. Hello. OK, so there was the video. There was the what video using that clip from the

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Dominic Natty show between he and Lauren Daigle. Now, here is the interview unedited.

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First, before I get to that, here's how the interview started. OK, this is

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Dominic welcoming Lauren to the program. And he says something about himself here.

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I just kind of want to make a mention of before we go on. OK, Lauren Daigle is on the phone with us today.

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Lauren, how are you doing? I'm doing so good. Thank you for having me, Dominic.

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Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I've been listening to your music for a while. I used to go to Bethel Church and now you're so big.

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Where did Dominic used to go to church? Bethel Church. Bethel Church in Redding, California.

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Bill Johnson, Jesus Culture. And Lauren Daigle has been associated with that church.

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She's led worship with them. She has even led worship at Joyce Meyer events. So that's kind of the strain of evangelicalism that she comes from.

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The very charismatic, the special revelation side of things does not believe in the sufficiency of the word of Christ.

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That's how the interview started. Here is the portion of the interview where Dominic asks her about her views on homosexuality.

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And this is after they talked about her stint on Ellen's show. You know, she appeared on the

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Ellen DeGeneres show. And it was right after that that people became very critical of Lauren Daigle.

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How can she as a Christian appear on the show of somebody who is openly homosexual? I didn't really have a problem with that.

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But I knew that what was eventually going to happen was Lauren was going to get asked if she thought homosexuality was a sin.

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Or if she thought it was okay for gays to get married. The question was going to be phrased that way.

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In the wake of that controversy, I knew that was going to come up. So I was ready for this. I did not make any comment about her being on Ellen.

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Because there's nothing wrong with a Christian going on a show like that. There's been other Christians on her show.

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Oh, I don't know that. I don't really follow the show that closely. I don't either, but I know of one other. But that's it.

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The thing is that you and I would never get asked on Ellen. John MacArthur would never get asked on Ellen.

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So it's ironic that we had this conversation between Dominic and Lauren in which she said she didn't know if homosexuality was a sin.

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The same weekend, John MacArthur has a conversation with Ben Shapiro in which Ben Shapiro asked him that question.

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John goes, it's right there in the Bible. It's condemned in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. So he gave the answer that Lauren could not give.

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Anyway, because she has this view of homosexuality, that's why she was on the

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Ellen show. You and I, and speaking of you, the listening audience and myself, who hold a view of the

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Bible as inerrant and as authoritative, we would not be asked on Ellen's program.

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So I knew something about Lauren in that sense. Not enough to make a judgment call, because like I said,

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I didn't say anything publicly. But still, for her to get asked on Ellen in itself was like, okay, there's going to be more to this.

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And it's going to come out as things go on. It's going to add up. Right. So eventually this was going to come out. And when people were condemning

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Lauren for being on Ellen, I kind of wanted to go, guys, just wait. Hold on. We don't quite have the right ground on which to speak our concerns about this issue yet.

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But if you know how things have gone in society today, just wait a second, because eventually she's going to get asked this question.

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It doesn't take very long anymore. It doesn't. It really doesn't. So here was Dominic asking her that question.

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Here it is in the full context with no editing. So is that all right if I ask you just a couple ones that are tougher and you can let me know if you want to answer them.

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Okay, cool. Well, since we're talking about Ellen, do you feel that homosexuality is a sin?

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You know, I can't honestly answer on that in the sense of I have too many people that I love that they are homosexual.

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I don't know. I actually had a conversation with someone last night about it. I can't say one way or the other.

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I'm not God. So when people ask questions like that, that's what my go -to is.

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I just say read the Bible and find out for yourself. And when you find out, let me know.

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Because I'm learning, too. Wow, you're a pro already. Next question is, are you an advocate for the

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Me Too movement? Okay, the rest of that isn't very important. But at least you hear the context of the question that he asked, exactly how she gave the answer without any editing to that at all.

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And then what Dominic's response was to that after she finished her answer. He said, wow, you're a pro at this already.

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She didn't really answer his question. She just said, I don't know. And I don't know how that's a pro. Well, that's kind of going to come up in his response here.

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So we got an email statement that went out from his program. This is Dave Faust, who's the producer of the

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Dominic Natty Show on iHeartRadio. And he sent out a letter. It was a form email.

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I did have another exchange with him after this, because there was a point of clarification that I wanted to make. And he did respond to me.

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I noticed that Kosti Hinn got this same email. And he's already responded to it on his blog.

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So you can also get another take on this from Kosti Hinn. And I think that what he had to share there was excellent as well.

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Dave Faust says, Dominic Natty is the radio host that interviewed Lauren Daigle and asked her if homosexuality is a sin.

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He has released a statement, which is below. Will you consider posting some or all of his statements? So here is the statement from Dominic.

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The backlash Lauren Daigle received from our interview has been very disappointing to witness. I was shocked by the amount of attack and assumption there was on someone simply saying,

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I don't know. The truth is, you don't know. You don't know if she was being honest. You don't know if she was dodging the question.

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And you don't know if she was lying. And neither do I. I know that Moses thought it was a sin. And I know

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Paul thought it was a sin. But Jesus didn't speak on it. And Paul and Moses did not always get things right in their writings, nor was it always recorded, copied, and translated correctly.

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John 16, 8 and 9 says, When the Holy Spirit comes, He will expose the world concerning sin, concerning righteousness, and concerning judging, of sin, that they are not believing in Me.

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Jesus identifies sin as not believing in Himself, not our sexual preference or wrongdoings, but rather our unbelief.

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So it's possible that someone doesn't know what is considered a sin and what isn't, and neither does anyone else.

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Not Moses, Paul, you, me, or Lauren Daigle, because they're not God. Lastly, for everyone that is accusing me of setting a trap for Lauren, I want to clarify two things.

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Number one, I have had a relationship with Jesus for 18 years. However, the Dominic Natty Show is not a

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Christian show. It is a pop culture entertainment show that happens to be hosted by a Christian. The tagline for the show is, and always has been,

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Maximum Exposure, Minimum Censorship. Every celebrity guest knows that I always ask tough, provocative, and sometimes invasive questions that produce shocking content and news headlines.

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That is the show, and it was not a secret before Lauren was our guest. Lauren was the first Christian artist we've ever had on the show, and she does not deserve the backlash that she received.

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That's the conclusion to Dominic's statement. So I wanted to read the statement in full first, and then we'll go back through some things here.

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He starts by saying, the backlash Lauren Daigle received from our interview has been very disappointing to witness.

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First of all, and I made this clear to Dave as well when we had our email correspondence, my video that I did, the

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When We Understand the Text video, was in response to her statement, I don't know, and if you know, please tell me because I'm learning too.

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Exactly. So all the video was, was going through those things where it clearly states in scripture that homosexuality is a sin.

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And I would like to have heard a response from her on that. I tagged her in it when I put it on, on Twitter.

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So I did mean for her to see it and hopefully would respond to it. I don't know if she has or not.

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I don't know. When you get bombarded like that, I'm sure. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. And there are definitely,

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I cannot stop checking. There are much more tactful ways that this could have been responded to. I was not comfortable and I was not easy even with what was posted on the

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What Facebook page. I was not comfortable with the backlash that was worded in the form of she's not a

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Christian. She's not a believer. Right. You can't make that judgment. No. You don't know.

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There are believers who unfortunately are immature enough to believe that homosexuality may very well be

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OK. Right. And it's because they've been inundated by this culture. They've been conditioned by the culture to believe that.

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Now, the hope would be that with the presentation of the word of God, they would be convicted over that and they would repent of it and they would come to believe and know the truth.

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However long that takes, I don't know. I think you'd have to be a little discerning just to see if the fruit is going to be apparent in a person's life.

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Right. But as far as we knew about Lauren Daigle just from this interview, we could not make a condemnation of her soul in that way.

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Right. I certainly am very concerned about her, but I am not in any way presenting that video, nor did

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I ever make a statement about Lauren may not even be a Christian. Right. We have trouble seeing fruit in her life when

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I did the video response to this on the Facebook page. There was somebody who said, hey,

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Lauren is just as qualified to share the gospel as somebody who has, you know, a major Christian seminary education.

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I'm summarizing the statement, but you know, something to that effect. And that's absolutely true. Everybody has a responsibility to know the gospel and share it with somebody else.

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Which is why you compared MacArthur's interview with Ben Shapiro. Yes. And her interview with Dominic earlier in this episode.

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Yeah. Even though John MacArthur is, you know, he's got a major ministry, he's been teaching for over 50 years, and he is one of the most respected and reliable presenters of the gospel alive today.

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Right. He was able to answer the question that Ben Shapiro asked him in the same way that Lauren should have been able to answer it.

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Right. It's not just because he's Dr. John MacArthur, you know, president of a seminary. It's because he's a

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Christian and he knows what the Bible says and so should Lauren know to that as well.

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His answer that he gave. maybe she will. Yeah, precisely. That's the hope. So even though, you know, this person said that you are just as, she is just as capable of sharing the gospel using her platform to do that as anybody else.

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My response to that in the video that I made for Facebook was, can you show me that?

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Has there ever been an occasion? Has she actually done that? Right. Has she done that? Got it. Can you show me an occasion where she actually has presented the gospel in a way that she said, you're a sinner and the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ, our

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Lord. I mean, even that much. Can you show me where Lauren has actually done that?

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Because I don't know. It's not like I've followed her career on any of these things. I don't even recognize her name.

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Okay. I'm not up to date. Well, yeah, but you don't recognize Arnold Schwarzenegger's name. Is that what

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I do? Surprisingly. Anyway. My wife is not the best with names.

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Not really. I try. I do try. There's a party in our house whenever I ask her a question and she does have the name.

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I know. I dance all over her house. Oh, my goodness. Becky knew a name there. That's amazing. It's down on the calendar.

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I would like to know, has Lauren actually done that before? Where do we see in her life an evidence of this fruit?

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If she is just as qualified to share the gospel as somebody like John MacArthur, then where has she done that?

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And that's not a criticism. It might be. That's not necessarily the intention of my heart.

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It's to know where has she shown fruit in her life of being a faithful follower in Christ, something other than in name only?

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Not just because she's a Christian musician. Not just because she's sung with Bethel Church, because that's certainly not a qualifier.

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Right. Where has she shown in her life an evidence of being a follower of Christ and rejoicing in his gospel?

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More than just a motivational speaker. Yes. But nevertheless, even though we're searching for that kind of fruit in her life, that's still not permission for us to say she can't possibly be a believer because I haven't seen that yet.

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Right. That's not for us to say. So please, and appealing to those who have made those condemnations, stop.

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Right. You can ask the question, have we seen this? Without saying, we haven't seen it, so therefore she's not.

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That's not our place. Unless you're her like best friend or somebody who knows her heart, like not just surface celebrity level, but actually knows her, you really don't have the room to say, you know,

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I'm really questioning your... Right. We don't have enough information. Right. And you can't have that heart to heart with her because you're not that close friend.

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She says that she has a love for God and a love for Jesus Christ and we need to give her the benefit of the doubt.

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Romans 15, we who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak. Right. And that's the way we need to respond to Lauren's statements, not with direct condemnation.

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So with Dominic, I was also troubled by the amount of attack and assumption that has come against her because of her response.

27:02

Right. And that's what he goes on to say, I was shocked by the amount of attack and assumption there was on someone simply saying,

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I don't know. Now let's stop there for a second. Yes. She wasn't simply saying, I don't know.

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Right. It was a loaded answer. It really was. This was not... This was...

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You can't make a neutral answer on this position. You're either on one side or the other. Right.

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And Summer White Jager, James White's daughter, made that, you know, one of the hosts of Sheologians.

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She made that observation as well. Just the fact that she said, I don't know, put her on a side of this debate.

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Yes. She's not in the middle. You can't be in the middle on it. Which probably is why she got so much lashing because she was on the side, the other, you know, she did pick a side.

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Yeah. Yeah. Even though it looked... It had the appearance. It had the appearance. It was totally a deflection though.

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She just did not want to answer the question. But in so doing, she actually put herself on a side. Right. She doesn't believe that homosexuality is a sin.

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By saying, I don't know, she's saying, I don't think it's a sin. It's the same thing and her answer is really not any different than that.

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And then Dominic goes on to say, the truth is, you don't know, saying to the reader, you don't know.

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You don't know if she was being honest. You don't know if she was dodging the question. You don't know if she was lying and neither do

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I. That's true, but that's not my, that's not what it is that I'm criticizing here. Right. I'm criticizing the fact that she deflected on her answer but in so doing, she did pick a side.

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She said, in her answer of I don't know, that she doesn't think homosexuality is a sin.

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I'm curious to know if how serious she was about, you know, if you find it in the Bible then to let her know.

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Right. And I said that in my video response as well. I said, my hope would be that you really didn't actually know.

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Right. Or, could it be said of you, 1 Timothy 6, that, that those, or that the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.

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Because it would be really easy to make that judgment. It would be easy to look at that answer that you made and think, well, she just doesn't want to lose fans and album sales.

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Right. So that's why she gave that answer. I hope that's not what you were doing.

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It could also be the awkwardness of you have friends you haven't talked to about it yet. You know, you haven't gotten to that point of saying, hey, you're a sinner.

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I really love you. That's troubling too. Yeah. I'm going to get to that here in just a moment.

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Yeah. So, sorry, I'm hopping all over. That's okay. So now we're going to get to even more controversial statements from Dominic as we go on here in the email.

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He says, so many things. He says, I know that Moses thought it was a sin. And I know

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Paul thought it was a sin, which I stated both in the video. I made a reference to Leviticus and in the same slide showed that Paul referenced what was said in Leviticus when he said men who practice homosexuality will not inherit the kingdom of God.

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There's another video that I did where I made that delineation a little bit more clearly. But anyway, he says, but Jesus didn't speak on it.

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Now, there is a very good reason why I started my response to Lauren Daigle with Matthew chapter 19.

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Because Lauren's statement was, I don't know, but if you know, please tell me because I'm still learning too.

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How did Jesus respond to the Pharisees in Matthew chapter 19 when they were asking him a question about divorce?

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Jesus said in Matthew 19, four, have you not read? And that's the reason why

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I picked that verse first in response to what it was that Lauren said. Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said, therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother also male and female and hold fast to his wife and the two shall become one flesh so they are no longer two, but one flesh.

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This is what God, yes, this is what God made sex for. The marriage union and it is only for that any other sexual activity outside of the marriage covenant is sexual immorality, which

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Jesus said. So it's not just here in Matthew 19. That's just the passage that I started with.

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Have you not read? Yeah. So anything outside of that is contrary to what God has created.

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So when Dominic makes this statement, Jesus didn't speak on it. Not true. That statement right there in Matthew 19 is speaking on it.

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Plainly. That is what God created sex for within the covenant of marriage and to be enjoyed only by a husband and a wife.

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Now I also make the statement in the video that in Revelation chapter 22 it says that outside the kingdom of God are the dogs.

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Blessed are those who wash their robes so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.

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Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

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Who are the dogs? Well according to Deuteronomy chapter 23 the dogs are homosexual men.

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Oh. Deuteronomy 23, 17 and 18. None of the daughters of Israel shall be a cult prostitute and none of the sons of Israel shall be a cult prostitute.

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You shall not bring the fee of a prostitute or the wages of a dog into the house of the Lord your

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God in payment for any vow for both of these are an abomination to the Lord your God. Why might homosexual men be referred to as dogs?

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I'm just gonna let that question be out there. Yeah, I'm not gonna answer that. I think you can figure that out for yourself.

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The statement in Revelation 22 verses 14 and 15. Who is saying that? That's Jesus Christ.

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Outside of the city of the kingdom of God who will not inherit eternal life outside are the dogs.

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The sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

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So to say Jesus didn't ever say anything on that is absolutely false. So we go on with Dominic's email here.

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Let's see. Jesus didn't say anything about it. Where did I? Where did I stop there? Right in the middle.

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Jesus didn't speak on it. OK. And Paul and Moses did not always get things right in their writings.

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Nor what is. Nor was it always recorded, copied and translated correctly. Hmm. Now there we have the revelation that Dominic does not actually believe that the word of God is inerrant.

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Nor does he even believe that it's divinely inspired. Hmm. Interestingly enough attached to this email that I received from Dominic's radio show was a link to a book that he's written.

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Oh, it's on Amazon. It's an e -book. Here's the name of the book. First of all, the

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Bible, the inspired word of men. And here's the explanation to the book.

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This book explains in full detail historical facts of how we have come to the conclusion that the

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Bible is the flawless, verbatim, inherent word of God, inherent word of God, not inerrant word of God.

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Well, at least he was speaking the truth. So he doesn't even understand inerrancy there.

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He can't even spell that right. So so then he says, Dominic walks readers through the Bible's contradictions, troubling claims about God and also reveals the unimpressive, uninspired process of how the 66 books of the

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Bible have been determined as God's perfect word. That is,

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I don't know, that is absurd. I haven't read it. I don't know if I'm going to read it, but that just lets you know what kind of person that we have talking to is here, that he he does not regard the

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Bible as authoritative. So for him, it's just full of a bunch of quotes that, hey, take them or leave them.

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And unimpressive, apparently. Yeah, it's just a bunch of proverbs. If you find a way for it to apply to your life, great.

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But he has he holds the Bible in no regard whatsoever. Right. For him to have written some very prideful ego trip book on how the the word of God is actually the word of men.

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That's even in the title of the book. So he goes on to say, John 16, eight through nine, says when the

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Holy Spirit comes, he will expose the world concerning sin, concerning righteousness and concerning judging of sin that they are not believing in me.

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I don't know exactly what translation that is. Becky and I even did a straight

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Google search of that quote. And we we couldn't find what translation that was. Maybe it's just the

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Dominic Natty translation. Well, he put it in quotes. So surely it came from somewhere. I don't know. But it nevertheless, what's said there is accurate.

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John 16, eight and nine. When he comes, referring to the the giving of the Holy Spirit, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment concerning sin because they do not believe in me concerning righteousness because I go to the father and you will see me no longer concerning judgment because the ruler of this world is judged.

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I'm going to go on. I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them.

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Now, when the spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears, he will speak and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

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He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the father has is mine.

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Therefore, I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. So what does that mean?

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So everything that we have in the Bible after the Gospels is just as much the word of Christ as what he has said here that John has written down.

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Right. So what Moses has said is the word of Christ. Right. What Paul has said is the word of Christ.

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Yes. Jesus was not absent on the left side of the book. Neither is he absent in the rest of the right side of the book.

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2 Peter 1 16. For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our

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Lord Jesus Christ. But we were eyewitnesses of his majesty for when he received honor and glory from God the father and the voice was born to him by the majestic glory.

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This is my beloved son with whom I am well pleased. We ourselves heard this very voice born from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain.

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And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

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Knowing this, first of all, that no prophecy of scripture comes from someone's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man.

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But men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

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So the same passage that Dominic uses to try to justify himself actually condemns him.

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Yeah. For the way that he treats and disregards the word of God. And so likewise with Lauren, I hope that he repents of this.

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Me too. Because this is a serious thing to stand before God in judgment for.

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In Isaiah 66 too, God said, this is the one to whom

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I will look. He who is humble and contrite in spirit and trembles at my word.

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Do you want the favor of God? Tremble before the word of God. Right.

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Revere it. Respect it. Do what it says. So I've got something more

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I want to add to that. I want to come to John 14 here in just a little bit, but I'm going to I'm going to conclude the response to the email with that.

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So then Dominic goes on. Jesus identifies sin as not believing in himself, not our sexual preference or wrongdoings, but rather our unbelief.

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Well, I had already shown how Jesus had listed sins that will keep a person from the kingdom of God in the book of Revelation.

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Right. It's funny that these red letter Christians, these who will say only the words of Jesus matter only consider the

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Gospels and not revelation. Somehow revelation isn't included in that. But they don't really they're not really looking at the words that Jesus said in the

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Gospels either, because Jesus said text or in context, because as Christ said in Matthew chapter five, you have heard that it was said to those of old, you shall not murder and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.

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But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment.

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Whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council. And whoever says you fool will be liable to the hell of fire.

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So is Dominic saying that that Jesus is not condemning murder as sin there? Does Dominic want to say that hate is not sin?

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Because he says Jesus identifies sin as not believing in himself, not our sexual preferences or wrongdoings, but rather our unbelief.

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Right. So would Dominic agree that it's wrong to not love somebody? Surely he would. But that's not sin, right?

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That's that's the statement that he made that that's weird. Jesus goes on in Matthew, chapter five, verse twenty seven.

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You have heard that it was said you shall not commit adultery. But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

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Jesus said in Matthew, chapter seven, verse twenty one, not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven.

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But the one who does the will of my father, who is in heaven on that day, many will say to me,

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Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and cast out demons in your name and do many mighty works in your name?

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And then will I declare to them, I never knew you. Depart from me, you worker of lawlessness.

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Yes, indeed. Jesus absolutely told us. Right. What was sin and what what was the will of the father?

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Right. That we would turn from sin and we would believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. Amen. And do those things that Christ has told us to do.

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So he goes on to say, so it's possible that someone doesn't know what is considered a sin and what isn't.

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And neither does anyone else. Not Moses, Paul, you, me or Lauren Daigle, because they're not

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God. According to what we read in Romans, chapter one. Yeah, we do know what sin and what's not.

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Yes, most definitely. Roman one, Romans one, eighteen. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who, by their unrighteousness, suppress the truth.

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So why does a person not know something is sin? Because they've suppressed the truth with their unrighteousness.

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Oh, yeah. You always make excuses. This isn't bad because it makes me happy. What we what we read at the at the end of that chapter, too, in verse thirty two, though they know

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God's righteous decree, that those who practice such things deserve to die.

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They not only do them, but they give approval to those who practice them. So, Dominic, you've you've read and you know that it says in the

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Bible, homosexuality is a sin. And even though, you know, God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve to die.

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You're not only doing them, but also giving approval to those who practice them. You are just as guilty as the person who does the sin.

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This is why it is so important for us to know what the Bible has said is the works of the flesh.

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And what is the fruit of the spirit in Galatians chapter five? But of course, Dominic has said

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Paul didn't know. Right. So so that that passage is of no use to him.

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Right. Yeah. Only if he wants it to be right. If he doesn't like a certain passage, it's of no use to him.

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But if he does like that passage, then it is of use to him. And Dominic probably loves the whole idea of the fruit of the spirit, but not so much about the works of the flesh.

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Galatians 519. Now, the works of the flesh are evident sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies and things like these.

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I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Interesting thing about that list.

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Some of that is exactly what Dominic is condemning with his email. Is he not distressed about having seen anger, rivalries, dissensions and divisions caused over what it is that Lauren Daigle has said?

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Yeah. So he is making judgment calls himself. That's very true. But nonetheless says, hey, sin is not, you know,

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Jesus didn't tell us what sin was. He just told us that sin was unbelief. So you just need to fix that part.

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Yeah. So why is he calling people out on being angry if that's not a sin to him? Right.

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So even by your own moral compass, yeah, you can't keep your own law. Yeah. And you know what

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God's law has said. You're just choosing not to follow it. He should just be accepting of those who are lashing out and being angry.

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Yeah. Be more tolerant, Dominic. That's terrible. It's like half right.

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Now, it's true. Dominic says we're not God. Moses didn't know. Paul doesn't know.

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Lauren Daigle doesn't know because they're not God. Well, we do know only one who knows is the father. Right.

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We do know because God has shown it to us. Well, I'm well, I guess I was talking more about her heart and whether she's a

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Christian or not. But I'm kind of hip hop and everywhere. OK, right. We're getting to that part in the program where we're

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Becky starting to lose consciousness. Just bear with me. Bear with the failings of the week.

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So Romans one, I just read, I just read. Where I'm weak, he is strong.

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That's right. God's grace is sufficient for you. Yes. And for me, too.

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Amen. Praise the Lord. Yes. I just read Romans 118. Here's verse 19. For what can be known about God is plain to them because God has shown it to them.

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For his invisible attributes, namely his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived ever since the creation of the world in the things that have been made.

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So they are without excuse for although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him.

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But they became futile in their thinking and their foolish hearts were darkened, claiming to be wise.

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They became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

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Therefore, God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the creator who is blessed forever.

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Amen. For this reason, God gave them up to dishonorable passions for their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature.

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And the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another.

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Men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

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We absolutely know what is natural and what is not. You know that a man and a woman are sexually compatible and a man and a man are not.

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You know that. And it's because you are ungrateful to God for the way that he has created things and the order that he has set things in that you go after unrighteousness instead of righteousness.

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That's where sin comes from. It comes from an ungrateful heart. It's saying my ways are higher than your ways,

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God. I know better than you. I know what would make me happy. I know what

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I need in order to get by. You don't know those things for me. Who are you to tell me what it is to do?

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Let me tell you. I was the most miserable person before I was saved thinking that I was the happiest ever.

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I've got everything set. Everything that I need to do to make myself happy. And yet I was, oh,

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I was so angry and miserable. But you didn't know that. I didn't. I mean,

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I knew that I was sinning. Right. I just, I couldn't stop sinning.

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Yeah. And it was just. Because your foolish heart was darkened. Right. Same with me. Same story with me.

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It was so tough to come out of that. And whenever I was saved and looking back,

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I was like, wow. Cause I thought I was saved through the whole thing. Sure. And it took a couple of years before I realized how lost

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I was. Oh, just totally depraved. Yeah. Because you've suppressed the truth of unrighteousness.

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Yeah. Yep. Cause God wanted me to be happy. So. It's not until he wakes you up and he pulls you out of that and he pours his

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Holy Spirit into your heart that you look back on that. Until you realize. Yeah. That you realize, boy, I was a miserable wretch.

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Yeah. How did God not just destroy me in the middle of all of that? Yeah. Just crazy. And it's only by the grace of God that I've come out of those sins in my life that I was clinging to and thinking that this is what was making me whole.

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Making an idol out of this. Yeah. And saying, God, you're not good enough. What you have for me isn't enough.

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I need this other thing in order to be happy. Right. And all sin comes from that. It comes from an ungrateful heart unto

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God. Yeah. Thinking that we know better for ourselves than God does. That our ways are higher than his ways.

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And our thoughts higher than his thoughts. Which is why. Can you imagine him looking down and being like, okay.

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Well, yeah. That's why God's grace is so amazing. Oh, yeah. How did he not just wipe me out?

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No, Chuck. How blasphemous of me. Like, oh, man. What a horrible person

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I am to say to the creator of the universe. I know better than you do.

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I mean, I giggle at my children whenever they try to tell me how I'm not good enough or doing something wrong or whatever.

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You know, I'm like, oh, good grief. You just take that. To a magnitude level. Yeah, right. It's just, it's, yeah.

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You take those interactions you have with your kids. If your kid thinks you're ridiculous somehow, you just put that on the level of your relationship between you and God.

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Right. I mean, how ridiculous are you. Right. To tell God, I know what's better for me than you do.

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Oh, yeah. It's like the little ant, you know, fighting back on the floor.

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Yeah, right. It's even worse than that. Yeah. You're talking about the God who sits enthroned over the whole universe.

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Yeah, because I didn't even create that ant. Yeah, you didn't even make the ant. No. The ant's trying to contend with you. Who are we to contend with God?

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Right. So what we have in Romans two, beginning in verse three, do you suppose, oh man, you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself that you will escape the judgment of God?

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Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance, but because of your hard and impenitent heart, you are storing up a wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when

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God's righteous judgment will be revealed. Don't do that. Yeah, that's scary.

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Repent. Right. And follow Jesus, know the grace of God and walk in the grace of God.

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So at the conclusion of the email, he says, lastly, for everyone that is accusing me of setting a trap for Lauren, I want to clarify two things.

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Number one, I have had a relationship with Jesus for 18 years. However, the Dominic Natty show is not a

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Christian show. It is a pop culture entertainment show that happens to be hosted by a Christian.

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But again, I challenge that. I challenge that he says that he's a Christian there. He said earlier in the program,

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I would not be able to play the whole interview because he actually drops a swear word in there. So, I mean, you'll know a tree by its fruit.

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What fruit have you produced of this, Dominic? If Jesus says in Matthew 12, 34, for out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

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Well, right now, what you have demonstrated by the words that you've spoken just in this email is that you don't believe the word of God is true.

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Right. The apostle Peter said in 2 Peter 3, 15 and 16 about the letters of the apostle

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Paul, he wrote to you according to the wisdom given him as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters.

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There are some things in them, in Paul's letters, that are hard to understand which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction as they do the other scriptures.

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Yeah. Peter, the apostle, calling Paul, the apostle's letters, scripture, equating them with the other scriptures.

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And then Peter goes on to say, you therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.

52:28

That's a very important caution, Dominic. Yeah. So he goes on to say the tagline for the show is, and always has been, maximum exposure, minimum censorship.

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Well, I got that from the fact that he's swearing himself in his own interview. Every celebrity guest knows that I always ask tough, provocative, and sometimes invasive questions that produce shocking content and news headlines.

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So he's admitting here that he was setting Lauren Daigle up. He absolutely intended to ask her this question, but what he's uncomfortable about is anybody accusing him of intending something malicious.

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So he goes on, that is the show, and it was not a secret before Lauren was our guest.

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Lauren was the first Christian artist that we've had on the show, and she does not deserve the backlash that she received.

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I would say the severity of some of the backlash that she's received is not warranted.

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Right. And some have gone too far to say that she's not a Christian. That's too far.

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But we have every right to be able to say, to do like what I did in the video.

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Right. To present her with what the Bible says and then basically say to her, okay, now tell us.

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Now it's your turn. What do you understand from that? Do you see now that the

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Bible says that homosexuality is indeed a sin? And if you're gonna say that you love your homosexual friends, then you are going to tell them to repent of their sin and follow

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Jesus. Right, tell them the truth. Furthermore, if you say that you love

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Jesus, you're gonna demonstrate that by knowing his word and following it.

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Right. So here's how I'm gonna conclude with John chapter 14, starting here in verse 15.

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Jesus said, if you love me, you will keep my commandments.

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So to show that we love Jesus, it's important then to know his commandments, correct?

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Right. And follow them. It goes on verse 16, and I will ask the father and he will give you another helper, just as a

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Dominic referenced in his email to be with you forever. Even the spirit of truth whom the world cannot receive because it neither sees him nor knows him.

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You know him for he dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans.

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I will come to you. Yet a little while in the world will see me no more, but you will see me because I live, you also will live.

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In that day, you will know that I am in my father and you in me and I in you.

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Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me.

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And he who loves me will be loved by my father and I will love him and manifest myself to him.

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Note again, what he says there, whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me.

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If you love Jesus, you will know his commandments and you will keep them.

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In verse 22, Judas not Iscariot, so not the betrayer, Judas not

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Iscariot said to him, Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us and not to the world?

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Jesus answered him, if anyone loves me, he will keep my word and my father will love him and we will come to him and make our home with him.

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Whoever does not love me does not keep my words and the word that you hear is not mine, but the father's who sent me.

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Again, whoever does not love me does not keep my words. Verse 25, these things

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I have spoken to you while I am still with you, but the helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

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Peace I leave with you, my peace I give to you, not as the world gives do

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I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.

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And so I say to you, repent of your sin and follow Jesus Christ. There is not a sin that you have committed the blood of Christ will not atone for, but you must repent.

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And Dominic even at least understands that, repent of your unbelief and follow

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Jesus. Now, repenting of unbelief doesn't just mean, well, yesterday I didn't believe in God and today I believe in God.

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For James says, even the demons believe that God is one and they tremble. Belief means that you know what

57:13

Jesus has said and you believe it's true and you follow it. And if he has said that he has sent his apostles into the world to speak more of the word of Christ and what they have said is every bit as authoritative as what

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Christ has said, because they are his apostles. And so you will read where the apostle

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Paul makes the statement in 1 Corinthians 6, 9 and 10, that even those who practice homosexuality will not inherit the kingdom of God.

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And you will know that it is only in Jesus Christ that we are washed.

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We are sanctified. We are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of our

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God. Worship him and obey him and live. Amen.

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That's our show. Let's conclude with prayer. Yes, let's. Our wonderful God, we thank you for the mercy that you have shown to us in Jesus Christ our

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Lord, that you did not leave us as wretched sinners, worthy of the wrath of God, but you sent

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Jesus Christ to us to die on the cross for our sins and rising again from the grave.

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And because he lives, we who have put our faith in Jesus Christ will also live. Faith in Christ is not merely believing that he was a real person who lived and died and rose again 2000 years ago, but it is knowing the words that Jesus has said, listening to them and obeying them.

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And so I pray that would be the desire of our hearts, even Becky's heart and my heart as we're sitting here that we have heard the word of Christ and we've been convicted of this.

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And we love him and desire him all the more to know what he has said and following in his truth.

58:51

I pray for Dominic, that he will have heard the word of Christ even over the course of having released this email and getting responses to it.

58:59

I pray that Lauren would have heard the truth ever since what she did in this interview. And though there has been plenty of backlash that has come her way that is unwarranted.

59:08

I pray that by the guidance of your spirit, she's able to weed through some of those more severe comments and instead find those who have been patient with her to show her the truth, that she would repent of unrighteousness and put her faith and trust in Jesus Christ and do what he has said, that she would not cling to fame or popularity and thus neglect the truth of God's word for the sake of these things in the world, which are perishing and passing away, which do not fulfill and do not save.

59:40

But instead she would put her trust in Christ and his word and not back down when anyone asks her those tough questions.

59:48

She won't have to rely on, I don't know, but she knows what

59:53

Jesus has said. She is able to say, I know, and I know that Jesus is the truth, the way, the truth and the life and no one comes to the father but by him.

01:00:04

In Jesus name we pray, amen. Amen. Amen.

01:01:08

Amen. Okay, you ready? No. You got this thing going here?

01:01:15

No. You closed it in the drawer. Actually, I highly doubt that was you.

01:01:23

Yeah, no. Usually it's not. No. That was the chillin'. Speaking of chillin'.

01:01:29

Chilly. Blah blah blah blah blah blah. Who was it that left the back door wide open for about an hour.

01:01:35

Will. It was. He was the last one out.

01:01:41

Yeah. I was walking backwards. I was the lead.

01:01:47

He was the one that left it open. Right. And he's going to say, hey, hang on a second.

01:01:54

You got this, right? So he could close the door. The polite thing to do would would be to do that.

01:01:59

Yes. Yes. Right. The polite. I don't still close the door when you get back.

01:02:06

I didn't go back that way. I went in through the front door. I know. And you left the front door open and he left the garage door open.

01:02:14

I wasn't the one that opened the front door open. And it's so cool.

01:02:20

Y 'all opened the door and let me in. So you should have closed the front door. I did. Well, then how did

01:02:26

I leave the front door open? Because you didn't close it. So I close it for you. I didn't have any reason to have to close it.

01:02:33

You're standing right there. Are you trying to put the blame on me? It wasn't left open. That's because I closed it.

01:02:42

That's the point. It's the responsible thing to do. And it was closed.

01:02:48

But you like to heat up the outside. No, I don't. Yes, you do. No. Leaving the back door.

01:02:57

I don't understand the thing with the garage because it doesn't really it doesn't matter that much. It does. No. Yeah. For some reason, whenever the garage doors open, there's more of a draft.

01:03:06

But I'm just gonna I'm just gonna lay this out one last time. I was not the last one out the back door.

01:03:12

Yeah. All it will know. Would it have been polite for me to set the drywall down and then go, hang on, let me go close the door behind you.

01:03:23

What would you expect him to do? Well, it will just hang in there with the drywall. What did you expect him to do? Shut the door behind him.

01:03:29

How? With his free hand. Sure. All right.