November 22, 2016 Show with Sye Ten Bruggencate on “Presuppositional Apologetics 101”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. Now here's our host, Chris Arnzen.

The Guest Introduction and the Call for Listener Questions

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all happy Tuesday on this 22nd day of November 2016, and I'm delighted after a number of attempts to finally get as a guest today, for the first time, Cy Ten Brugengate, and he is a Christian apologist.

He's the founder of Absolute Apologetics. He's a well-known conference speaker and producer of the film, How to Answer the Fool. Today, we are addressing Presuppositional Apologetics 101, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron, Cy Ten Brugengate.

By the way, is my Dutch.

Pronunciation. Okay? It's not bad. In Dutch, it's actually Ten Bruggenkater, but in Canadian, Canuck, it's Ten Bruggenkate, so that was quite good. We've actually met twice, I think you know.

That. Yes, I do. At the conference in Florida was the first time. The debate, yeah, and then in Arizona. No, actually, I was never in Arizona yet. No? No. Maybe you just met another ugly guy.

Named Chris. I thought we'd met twice. It was the debate, and then it was some other place,.

Well, it was the debate that James White had in Florida with Greg Strawbridge. Correct. And then, either before or after that, it was in Jacksonville at the conference that you spoke at. Oh, okay. The Jeremiah Cry conference.

Right, yeah, that's it. That's where I first met Tony Miano, and that's where I also met a number of other people for the first time. Jeff Pollard, although I had known Jeff for years and have interacted with him by phone and by email, I had never met him face to face until then.

I met Jeff Rose once before because he was on my old radio program when it was broadcasting out of New York, but there were other men that I had just met for the first time there. Bobby McCreary was one.

Dear brothers, all of them.

Jeff Durbin, who has since been on my program several times after that initial meeting there in Jacksonville, Florida, and I'm looking forward to many more occasions to fellowship with those brethren and you and to hear you speak again.

And before I even go into our main subject at hand, let me announce our email address. It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com if you have a question for Sai Ten Bruggencate.

And please give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and if you live outside of the USA, your country of residence. And we appreciate hearing from you. You may remain anonymous if it's about a personal or private matter.

Perhaps you're criticizing the church you're a member of because you disagree with them theologically or something. That we can understand, but if not, please give us at least your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

And before we go into the theme at hand, Presuppositional Apologetics 101, I would like you to give us some information about your personal background, the religious atmosphere you were raised in, if any, and how you came to know the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.

What providential occurrences the Lord brought about sovereignly in your life to bring you to that point?

Raised in a Reformed Home and Early Faith

Canada. And I don't know a time when I did not know Jesus Christ as Lord. Now, I'm not saying, as some people suspect, that I was born a Christian. And there are people who criticize that. They'll say, if you don't remember, you know, if you don't know when you gave your life to the Lord, then you're not a Christian.

And I normally ask them, well, when did you start loving your mother? And if they can't tell me that, I say, well, I guess you don't love your mother. But I lived in a house. Yes, I actually brought that very topic up very recently.

I interviewed.

Dr. James R. White's daughter, Summer White, last Friday, and she was also raised in a Christian home. And she has a hard time pinpointing the actual point of her regeneration in her theological journey in life.

But she did remember some point where the seriousness with which she held her faith radically changed. But as we both said on the program, it's ridiculous to insist that someone pinpoint the exact date of their conversion as a litmus test for its authenticity.

That's.

Absolutely absurd. Doug Wilson uses the analogy of somebody who's saved from drowning, and that might show up at the same time. Arrogant would it be for that? That's very good. Yeah, I like that analogy.

So you were raised in a Christian faith, and you can't remember when it was that the Lord actually radically transformed you, because you were so young when it happened, assumingly. And this was a theologically reformed home, or was it of a different theological perspective?

No, it was definitely a reformed home. But if you ask me if I knew Arminian answers, and one thing that James White says, then presuppositional apologetics, then I came to understand the authority of scripture, and then I came to understand reform.

Huh, that's interesting. And so from what I recall, I believe your discovery of Dr. Greg Bonson, the late Dr. Greg Bonson, had something to do with this approach to apologetic.

Yeah, absolutely. I always had a passion for sharing my faith, but I was doing it, I would say, in a manner that was unbiblical. And I had a website, and then I would start using some of these arguments with people out in the streets, you know, some of my friends at work, and I didn't know why.

You know, I know now why, because it never affected my faith. And then about a year ago, I called a narrow-mind addict, and I've been on that show about four times, and that's how I honed my skill, and still communicate.

Presuppositional Apologetics Versus Evidentialism

Well, I guess now would be a good time, since we've mentioned presuppositionalism a few times already, would be a good time to define that and contrast it with evidentialism.

Yeah, and I'll say, let's say that, and the unbeliever looks at that very, now why is that? But why are they coming to different conclusions? Not because of the evidence, but because of the beliefs they take, foundational, underlying beliefs.

And they will interpret fundamental underlying beliefs are what you're called your presuppositions. So rather than examine the evidence, I say they can't even make sense of it. So a lot of these tools, and yet we gladly hand them over, and let the unbeliever examine evidence, and you hand the gun over to them, or you throw your gun.

Now, someone may come to the wrong conclusion, hearing you, that a presuppositionalist Christian does not use evidence when he is declaring the faith, when he is involved in debate, or dialogue, or discussion.

But that's not true either, is it?

No, I would say that the presuppositionalist is the ultimate evidentialist many times, and who do you give evidence to in court? If somebody comes up to you and say, who are you saying is the judge? We elevate the unbeliever to the position, I say that is an incorrect way.

You can use evidences in a way, you know, to badly most of the people, apologetics, do not use evidences in that way. They try and use evidences to con...

An example I would share of a presuppositionalist apologist who uses evidence during his debates is Dr. James R. White, who you've mentioned. Dr. James R. White, when he is debating Roman Catholics, or Muslims, or liberals, especially if it is a liberal or apostate who claims to use the Bible in some fashion as a guide to their ideology, he will use evidence of what history has told us, and what the Bible tells us, from the original Greek and Hebrew.

Uh, he will point to these things. Now, why is this not a contradiction in terms of he is a.

Presuppositionalist? I would say that I would use evidence, but I think it's also important, the same thing we tell the debate tonight, you're going to meet just not the unbeliever, that is the Mormon that knows the Egod, and too often we just present them with evidences to deconstruct 115.

And if you have to know the intricacies of the sheep here,.

Really good argument. Well, you know, since a lot of presuppositionalism is based on Romans 1, I'm just, if you don't mind, I'm going to read Romans chapter 1, if that's alright with you. Oh man, I would love that.

Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called as an apostle, set apart for the Gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets and the Holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among the Gentiles, for his namesake, among you who also are the called of Jesus Christ, to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints, grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world, for God whom I serve in my spirit, in the preaching of the Gospel of his Son, is my witness as to how unceasingly I make mention of you always in my prayers, making requests, if perhaps now at last by the will of God I may succeed in coming to you, for I long to see you, that I may impart some spiritual gift to you, that you may be established, that is, that I may be encouraged together with you while among you, each of us by the other's faith, both yours and mine.

I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that often I have planned to come to you and have been prevented so far, so that I may obtain some fruit among you also, even as among the rest of the Gentiles.

I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish, so for my part I am eager to preach the Gospel to you also who are in Rome, for I am not ashamed of the Gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek, for in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith as it is written, but the righteous man shall live by faith, for the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them, for God made it evident to them, for since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse, for even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them, for they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever.

Amen. For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions, for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward each other, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

Just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice, they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful, and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

So there in that chapter you have a lot of evidence, as we were saying, that everything is an evidence of the existence of God and His sovereignty. We have right there in the inerrant word, divinely inspired by the Holy Ghost through the Apostle Paul, the fact that men already know the truth of God, but they suppress.

It. Are you there, Cy? Yeah, exactly. I'm glad you read the whole chapter, too, because a lot of times we just focus dealing with the apologetic. Now, when you speak to someone.

Who is claiming to be either an atheist or an agnostic, or they have a religion of their own invention, which I think that most people on the planet Earth do have that kind of, they live by their own golden rule where they pick and choose what they want from various ideologies on the planet, but when they will say to you that, I disagree with you, you're wrong, or I don't have any agreement with you on these teachings against homosexuality, or the teaching that Jesus Christ is God and I must bow to Him and worship Him and serve Him, are they forgetting something that they suppressed, or how is it that when they, how do you respond to them when they may call you either totally misunderstood, delusional, or a liar by saying that they.

Know these things? Well, I say, I hope you don't mind that I believe, I have a shirt, but one thing I keep in mind, Romans 1 says that everyone does believe in Him. So when they come up to you and say, well, that's a blasphemy towards God, and how do we deal with that?

People just throw out, well, let me give you some evidences. I say, but if somebody came up, you know, to a person's wife and says, you know, I agree, the night before that she was at choir practice, so I'm pretty sure she wasn't walking the street, and the night before that she was at her parents' house, so I don't think, I don't think she was walking the street, I don't think my wife's a prostitute.

You wouldn't say that. You'd say, but one thing you have to keep in mind is that when you say that you don't believe in God, and if you walk away from this conversation, and if you die unrepentant, because I'm giving you a lot of truth, one thing I want to make clear about Romans chapter 1 as well, is that people, and they'll go out into the street with them and say, I really don't believe that God exists, and they say, well, you're lying.

That is way above my pay. Elevate one, and they suppress. But Greg Bonson uses this analogy of, you know, sometimes you're playing volleyball in a swimming pool, and every once in a while there's a smart aleck who takes that volleyball, and he pushes it under the water, and he sits on it.

What always happens? Eventually that ball pops up. So when somebody comes up to you and says they don't believe in God, I say it's important to warn them that they're actually blind. And when you have someone who professes to be.

An agnostic or atheist, they very often, if not most often, need to borrow or steal from the worldviews of Christians in order to maintain any kind of rational ideology that is in any way, shape, or form appealing to fellow humans, such as the whole concept of goodness and decency.

There should be no rules for those things if God does not exist. One example of that is something I clearly remember when I arranged a live public moderated debate on Long Island between Dr. James R. White and David Silverman, who is the president of American Atheists, the organization that Madeleine Murray O 'Hare founded.

And when basically David Silverman was saying that morality is determined by what the majority of any given people in any particular region of the earth believe in any particular error of time, that is what determines what morality is.

So James basically cornered David Silverman, and he is a Jewish atheist, someone who identifies ethnically as a Jew, when James said to him, so are you saying to me that if you were being led through the gates of Auschwitz, the most you could say in protest to that was, I find this personally offensive?

And David Silverman agreed, yes, that is the greatest objection I could give to that occurrence. So it is true that these people are suppressing the truth, and they will find themselves either consciously or unconsciously borrowing or stealing from our worldview, don't they?

He doesn't like me debating. He actually sat and stared at me the whole time. It was quite interesting. But I want the listeners to understand, too, that I think there's a difference sitting down. My friend turned to me and he said, Cy, the thing that I hate most about you, I said, you know how I'm so certain?

Same way you are. And so he walked away to the table and walked to the rest. You know, many hour-long conversations. I'm not saying that's going to happen every time, but I've heard so many, you know, the difference it makes in their.

Argumentation. We have some listeners waiting to have their questions asked and answered, but we will get to you after the break, God willing. So if you could be patient, we'll be getting to you momentarily.

And if you'd like to join them with questions of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Cy Tenbruggenkate right after these messages, so don't go away.

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Hoping that you can join Chris and me at the G3 Conference in Atlanta, my new hometown. It is going to be a bang-up conference called the G3 Conference, celebrating the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation with Paul Washer, Steve Lawson, D .A. Carson, Votie Baucom, Conrad and Bayway, Phil Johnson, James White, and a bunch of other people.

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G3conference .com. Thanks, Todd, I think. See you at the Iron Sharpens Iron Exhibitor's booth.

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Of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours is Sai Ten Bruggencate. He is a Christian apologist. He's the founder of Absolute Apologetics.

He's a conference speaker and producer of the film How to Answer the Fool. We are discussing Presuppositional Apologetics 101 on our broadcast today. If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

Please give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence. We have Rich from Cleveland, Ohio, who says, Chris, thank you for your ministry. Can you please ask Sai this question on today's radio show?

Sai, thank you for your ministry. I have used your one-to-one tracks in my evangelical encounters and first learned about Presuppositional Apologetics using your How to Answer the Fool DVD. I have to admit, I watched it over and over again about four times before the light bulb came on and I understood the concepts you were teaching.

Can you speak a little bit about your future Sai slash Nye debate? I'm assuming that's Bill Nye, the science guy, but I can't be certain of that. Is this something that is in the works or is it simply an attempt to invite Bill Nye to debate you?

Oh, there it is. That answered my question.

Should this debate occur, what subject would the debate focus on? I tweeted out a couple. I'd really be interested in the Sai Nye Summit. I only debate on one topic, because there are many Christians and things like this.

I'm giving you things that Jesus Christ, and I'm not going to give to the unbeliever to use them to argue against the biblical Nye, but he didn't respond.

Or you could also come out with a silent Nye, unholy Nye. Anyway, well, by the way, thank you very much, Rich, in Cleveland, Ohio. And guess what, Rich, since you are a first-time questioner on Iron Sharpens Iron, you are going to receive a free New American Standard Bible, an absolutely gorgeous edition of that Bible with an embossed on the cover.

It is a perfect size for carrying around in a briefcase or in a large coat pocket. It's not exactly a pocket size for a shirt pocket, but the print is large enough for you to easily read and would fit in most women's purses and pocketbooks as well.

It's a really excellent edition of the New American Standard Bible, but we need your full mailing address in Cleveland, Ohio, so if you could email that to me, I will have Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, one of our sponsors, ship that Bible out to you within a week or so, God willing.

And we want to thank the publishers of the NASB for providing these Bibles for our first-time questioners, and we also want to thank Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com, cv for bbs for biblebookservice .com, for shipping out all of the winners in our audience, their free Bibles, books, DVDs, CDs, and everything else they win by submitting questions to our guests.

So thanks to you, Rich, for participating in today's program, and get us your address as soon as possible. We also have a listener in Slovenia, Joe in Slovenia, and I am having to enlarge the typeface of his email because I can barely read it.

Let's see, it says, please ask Brother Sai to help me with this thought. After claiming to the unbeliever that he in fact does know that God exists, when he denies that fact, how do I proceed without relying on evidential arguments that he will reject because he interprets the evidence by his unbelieving worldview?

What should I do in this case? Thanks so much for your efforts.

In the grace of Christ our Lord. Now that's actually a fantastic question. When I deal with people, I want people to know that this type of apology is very easy. You have to know what the Bible says about them.

However, that's where I will start, that you do know that he exists. There are crazy things it says in it. I say, well, one thing is clear, though, when you say that you don't believe my Bible is true, because according to Scripture, it says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.

And I say, I realize that often they'll say yes, and so I could be right about it. Let's say we're standing near a road. Oh, I mean, you could be right, you could be wrong about everything you claim to know.

Therefore, it follows logically that you know nothing. And then I go out, and I give them a gospel presentation. And very often what I'll do, and I think that my over the years as well, because rather than being duped into an evidential argument, gospel, and then if they come up to you, you know, you're very honest about something you're saying, that I very quickly deal with that objection apologetically.

If it's more of the philosophy you have in your back pocket, we're formed apologetic too, because nowhere in Scripture does it say that goats become sheep. Jesus said, my sheep hear my voice. And too often, we're trying to convert goats.

We're trying to give people goat food because they're not listening to the biblical argument. And if they turn, you know, you don't know what they're going to be thinking about in years past, instead of changing the message and having an evidential argument with them for six hours, or a philosophical argument, tell them what the truth of Scripture says about them, and hope that the Holy Spirit use it to conform to apologetic.

Yes, I do not know how our Arminian brethren, who claim to be biblical inerrantists, how they can uh, reject what is clearly taught as the order of salvation in the gospel of John, and other places in the Scripture, where we clearly see that the reason why the Pharisees and others who were rejecting Christ didn't believe was because they weren't of his sheep.

And you don't become a sheep by believing, you believe because by God's sovereignty, you already are a sheep. Amen. And by the way, thank you Joe in Slovenia, keep spreading the word about Iron Sharpens Iron in Slovenia, and we thank you for participating in today's program with your excellent question.

Presuppositionalism, Romans 1, and Human Suppression of Truth

Many have attributed the methodology of presuppositionalism to Cornelius Van Til, obviously you would trace it back to the Apostle Paul, uh, and Christ himself, but um, are there any other figures in history that predate Van Til that you could mention, that you know of, that use this methodology of apologetics?

When Paul was before, he said to him, he didn't try and prove the resurrection, but he says, well God can do that. So when I'm out in the street and somebody says, well yeah if he exists he could do that, I say, so your problem is Greg Bonson of course, who studied mostly under, most books, but what I've, I've cut my teeth on the apologetic mostly and then also on audio lectures at the Covenant Media Foundation.

I downloaded hundreds of hours of his lectures, thankfully they, one thing I didn't share with you is that I'm, you know, taking readings on boilers and children and stuff like that, so when I even hear someone like Greg Bonson speak, it's way above my head.

So Greg Bonson seemed to simply get one nugget out of it.

And uh, when we have people, um, who get sentimental and they say that, uh, you know, God could not dare condemn people to hell, uh, if they did not ever hear the gospel, if they were from a pagan land where there were no missionaries and so on.

God could never do that, and he will not ever do that. They are really rejecting this understanding of Romans 1, that these people, no matter where they live and where they were raised and who raised them, uh, God has placed the truth within their hearts, uh, already, even though they are of, uh, the, the clay that, uh, creates vessels of destruction or, or the, um, the clay that God creates the vessels of destruction from, uh, they even know, regardless of what they will say, they know these things that they are rejecting.

These are not innocent quote-quote. People who.

Are being punished for things that they never knew. Can you imagine such a tribe where these people have never heard the gospel and you have a sign-up sheet at the back? Because according to what these people are saying, so if somebody came to them and preached the gospel to them, that would be removing their excuse.

No missionaries went there that they would have, but nobody believes that. We have missionary sign-ups at the back of the church. We have wall building teams to build walls, to stop missionaries from getting in, to remove the excuse of, of these unreached, sufficient knowledge of God for the missionaries to tell them about went to one of these unreached tribes and they talked to him, always known him.

We've never known his name. And these are unreached tribes. And I would just talk to my friend, Dustin, who I mentioned earlier about this last night. And he thinks that one of the things that, you know, we all, and by technology and we're not out in the open air enough to actually see what it says in Romans one, the glory of God.

And I think it's probably easier to suppress the truth when you're in a situation like that, then when you're living out.

So basically the natural man, apart from a missionary specifically giving the, the divine truth of the gospel, they know enough to know that they are sinning when they violate God's truth, but they need missionaries to reveal the actual gospel to them.

The only hope of their salvation from this predicament they're in. And isn't that even further proof of unconditional election or particular redemption, or the fact that, that God has called to himself a unique people from out of all of humanity, because there have been un-evangelized peoples over the centuries who never did meet a missionary.

So therefore it could not have been in the plan of God to.

Save certain people. Am I right? Yeah, that's because people will say, well, as a Calvinist, and this is a question I have, well then why do you eat? God knows that as well as the end. And that's why we preach, and that's what we pray from an Arminian standpoint to actually do these things when there's nothing you can do about it.

Instead of God ordaining all things, God predestining even our, you know, using worms like us in their conversion, you know, what a wonderful God said and done, and God has done everything, you know, then it wouldn't make any sense.

Amen. And by the way, our email address, if you'd like to join us on the air, is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. We have Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, who says, why do you think some of our beloved brethren and modern-day heroes who are even in agreement with us on soteriology, like such Reformed individuals as Dr. R .C. Sproul and the late Dr. John Gerstner, disagree with this methodology of presuppositionalism and prefer.

The evidentialist ideology for apologetics? I think you're going to love my, and I think have disagreements. And I think, for instance, Dr. Vonson, and they agreed on 95%, I think there's different groups, but when they believe mostly the same thing, sadly in that case, at least one person has to be wrong, and I think, you know, you'll probably understand.

Yes, and on this.

Fallen planet, Christ's Church is never going to be in perfect lockstep harmony until we are in glory with him for eternity. In fact, if you see a church or discover a religious group where everyone is in complete lockstep with one another, you have discovered a cult, haven't you?

Christianity that adhere to one certain, something like that, out of a position they didn't reason themselves into, and if it's just groupthink, you know, based on something like that, it's a,.

I can't get into a conversation. Well, we have another first-time questioner on Iron Sharpens Iron. We have Bruce in Boise, Idaho, who says, I have relatives who believe a kind of God, pantheism, in Jesus, who was a man but became one with Christ consciousness.

How do I use.

Presuppositional ways with them? Again, it's nonsense, always. It's something that they've come up with, them to know anything, because you could be wrong. You know, I say, could you be wrong about that God that you're professing?

You know, they don't have perfect, have to either know everything, very few revelatory worldviews, and people who profess something like that.

By the way, Bruce, you have also, since you're a first-time questioner, you have also won a free New American Standard Bible, so if you please could give us your full mailing address in Boise, Idaho, we would be delighted to receive that information so we can have Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service ship you out a free copy, compliments of the publishers of the NASB, and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com.

Cvbbs .com is their website for more details, but if you could please email us, your full mailing address, we'll get that out to you, God willing, within a week or so. Thank you so much for participating in the program today.

Why is it that you think that some of our evidentialist brethren get really hostile about this issue? They think that presuppositionalism is not only just a less effective form of apologetics, they think it's dangerous, they think it's absolutely horrible, they might even call.

It heretical. Why is it they get so worked up about this? Books in the lobby that they're trying to sell. He went around, diseases could be cured if people just drank enough water. He said disease is called by dehydration.