December 30, 2019 Show with Josh Buice on “Worship: Regulated by God or by Man’s Preferences?”

Worship Regulated by God or by Man’s Preferences

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 30th day of December 2019.

Before I introduce today's guest and topic, I just want to thank Steve Lee and Bill Noonkesser and everyone else who orchestrated the Foundations Conference in New York City that I recently attended. It proved to be, as always, an extraordinary experience, and one of the primary reasons is because I finally had my opportunity to interview someone who I've been trying to interview for over a decade, Paul Washer, the world-renowned preacher and evangelist and author and founder of HeartCry Missionary Society.

Paul finally, since I was face-to-face with him, and since I got the approval via text from his pastor Anthony Mathenia, I got the approval to interview Paul. He always insists upon the approval of at least one of his pastors before he does an interview, and thankfully, Anthony Mathenia instantly responded to my text request to interview Paul and said, that's a great idea, and Paul conducted the interview.

He was very apprehensive at first, but during the interview, I could sense that he was really enjoying it, because he was laughing and just very spirited in his voice, and then later on, he confirmed that he really enjoyed the interview, because he grabbed a hold of me later on, about an hour later, in the fellowship hall, and said, brother, I want to thank you for that excellent interview.

You can contact me anytime for another interview. You're really intimidating, but you're a really nice guy, and in fact, if most people think I'm intimidating, then you must be really intimidating, he said.

And then he even confirmed it even more by sending me a written commendation for my show that absolutely blew me out of my socks. So thank you so much, Paul Washer and Anthony Mathenia, for making that interview possible, and God willing, it's going to be aired on Iron Trip and Zion Radio with other interviews we conducted onsite at the Foundations Conference in the very near future.

But now, it's time for me to introduce somebody whom I love to interview, Pastor Josh Bice, who's an author, conference speaker, and pastor of Praise Mill Baptist Church of Douglasville, Georgia. He's also the founder and director of the G3 Conference, which we will be discussing momentarily.

And today we are addressing the very important theme, worship regulated by God or by man's preferences, and it's my honor and privilege and delight to welcome you back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Pastor Josh Bice.

Glad to be with you, Chris. And I'll give our listeners right away our email address if you have a question for Pastor Josh Bice on the issue of worship regulated by God or by man's preferences, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Pastor Josh, before we get into the theme at hand, can you tell us, especially for the benefit of our listeners who have not yet heard you interviewed on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, who missed our previous interviews, tell us something about Praise Middle Baptist Church of Douglasville, Georgia.

Sure, yes. So I have the privilege to serve the church where my wife and I grew up as children. It's just west of the city of Atlanta, and it's 177 years old, and actually we're about to enter the 178th year of its existence yet, so it's quite a privilege for me to serve this church.

The members of this church nurtured me and invested in my life early on, and so after going away to seminary and pastoring out of state for a period of about seven years in God's providence, He called my wife and I back home, and I've been serving this church now for nine years.

Praise God, and if anybody wants more details on Praise Middle Baptist Church, go to PraiseMill .com, and Praise Mill is spelt P-R-A-Y-S-M-I-L-L .com, and can you tell our listeners about the unusual name that you have?

Oh, yeah. Praise Mill was originally, and given the name Praise Mill, P-R-A-Y apostrophe S, because of the founder, Ephraim Pray, who came from Maine with inheritance money, and he settled here in this community, and there was no local Baptist church within any close proximity to his home place, so he donated the land, and he had a lumber mill that he was running, so he donated the lumber as well to build a building that would be used during the week for a schoolhouse, and then on the Lord's Day it would be used for the gathering of God's people, so they wanted originally to name it after him, so he said, absolutely not, so they decided to name it after his mill, so they called it Praise Mill.

Baptist Church. Yes, it is not a derogatory name that someone might call a church, P-R-A-I-S-E Mill, like it's some kind of a mill for praising, and of course that would be sounding like using the term mill, some kind of a derogatory name.

No, this is actually the mill that was owned by a man named Pray, where they were worshipping. And again, the website is Praise Mill, P-R-A-Y-S Mill dot com, and there's no apostrophe in the website obviously.

The G3 Conference and Its Growth

Alright, now one of my favorite of all events, in fact I think it is my very favorite, in fact I don't even have to say I think, I know it's my very favorite conference that I have been attending annually for the last three years, and this will be my fourth year this January 16th through the 18th, God willing, is the G3 Conference which stands for Gospel, Grace, and Glory, and why don't you tell our listeners about that monumental event.

Yeah,.

Well it is quite an event, Chris, and it's just a privilege to serve and to be able to lead that conference, but it really started back in, you know, 2011 -2012 myself and another one of our elders, we were having conversations about starting a conference that would be useful and beneficial to pastors in our area.

You know, fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, those that might not be serving in leadership but would want to come to a theology conference. So we ended up developing this idea to do a conference, a three-day event Thursday to Saturday, and we thought we would end up with maybe about 250 people or so, and you know, we set a date, which would be January of that first year of the conference, which was 2013, and we chose a theme, and the theme was going to be on the Gospel, and we chose the name, as you mentioned before, G3, Gospel, Grace, and Glory, because we wanted people to have this foundational understanding that they're coming to a theology conference.

In other words, they're going to be spending a great deal of time in the Word of God, studying the Bible, listening to the Bible proclaimed and explained. And so this is not just, you know, a conference where you're getting together with friends, and it's sort of like a Christian pep rally, but this is something where you're going to be digging into God's Word, singing the Gospel.

Yes, there's going to be fellowship, yes, there's going to be a lot of fun involved, but it's going to be a serious-minded approach to biblical theology. That first year we ended up having to close registration in December before the conference arrived in that January, and that would be the process that we would end up repeating for the first four years of the conference.

And finally in 2017 we moved to the Reformation conference, where it grew astronomically and then has been, ever since then, growing each year. So this year we are anticipating nearly 5 ,000 attendees, so it's going to be.

Quite impressive. And you know something, I've been saying this and I'm not clairvoyant, nor am I a prophet, but with John MacArthur added to the lineup, I have a feeling you may have over 6 ,000 people.

There. Yeah, I mean, who knows who will show up, you know, that hasn't registered yet, but just by looking at numbers now, we're going to be.

Right about the 5 ,000 mark. And this is on. Worship Matters is the theme for 2020, and that is obviously connected to our discussion today. Do you want to give a broader explanation of the theme? Sure, yeah, so I think.

It's critically important when we think about doing a conference like this to choose themes, and think through why it is that we're choosing a theme to be developed over that weekend. And so, we started with the Gospel, we've gone through various different themes, such as the Trinity, the Reformation conference, discipleship, we went last year with the Missions conference.

The reason, again, if you look at the trajectory of these conferences, we've been trying to keep a certain focus on where we went from the very beginning, where we were, and where we're headed into the future.

And so, as we think about planting churches and doing evangelism, doing missions for the glory of God, and once those churches are established, now what has God called us to do? Well, He's obviously called us to be worshipers.

And so, I think that if we are really honest with ourselves, if we would evaluate the worship that's happening in many evangelical circles, if you just look at the...you know, it doesn't have to be one specific denomination, but if you just look across denominational lines and you look at evangelical churches, you will see a wide array of different worship styles and preferences, and you will see all sorts of different reasons that people choose certain churches.

In other words, you might ask them, why have you chosen a certain church? And they might start telling you about how this church makes them feel, or how a certain program is offered at this church for their children, or the type of music that makes them happy, or you know, whatever it might be.

And so, when you start evaluating all of those markers, you start coming back to the central idea that we have really turned worship upside down. In other words, we've turned worship into something that's more man-centered rather than God-centered.

We believe that doing a conference that's completely devoted to worship and unpacking that theme over the course of a weekend would be very helpful to local churches all around.

The Regulative Principle and Worship Preferences

The world. Now, obviously, I've titled this discussion Worship Regulated by God or by Man's Preferences. Obviously, even if you believe in the regulative principle, as it is called, where the worship of God must include things that are commanded in the Scripture, and we are prohibited from being innovative and adding things that God does not command in the Scripture, but at the same time, even if you believe that, there are still preferences involved.

Obviously, not everybody who believes in the regulative principle, for instance, worships exactly the same way. Some of our brethren will strictly stick with the old hymnals. Some of our brethren will include worship that you even feature on occasion at the G3 conference, such as the Gettys, which we would obviously consider, because it is, contemporary worship, but it is done in a very Christ-centered and biblically-focused manner.

And then you even have those who disagree over what the regulative principle means, because we have brethren who are exclusive psalmody advocates, who only sing the psalms in worship anyway. They may sing or listen to hymns, extra-biblical hymns, that are not in the Bible during times of fellowship, or just during private times of relaxing, or what have you, but who would say during the corporate worship of God we are only to use the psalms, and they are even divided amongst those who are strictly a cappella, or those who permit musical instruments.

So, there is difference, even amongst those who would agree with you that worship is regulated by God.

Through His Word. Am I correct? Yeah, obviously so. There are going to be different views, but rather than those views being centered merely on preference, those views are founded upon some sort of interpretation based on the Word of God.

So we may differ on that interpretation, but those who hold to those specifics are doing so based upon Scripture, at least those who understand those particular positions are. And so, I would say, I don't I'm not held specifically to the psalms, because I see text in the New Testament that indicate that we're to sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs.

And so we can say, well, then we can sing something other than psalms, but yes, we need to be singing psalms as well. And I think that we need to be honest that the Bible regulates our worship. So the Bible actually provides us the boundaries by which God has called us to worship, and how He demands that we actually approach Him in worship.

I guess where.

I was coming from in regarding preferences still being involved in the regulative principle is that as I mentioned earlier, you will have worship involving the Gettys and so on, and there are some of our brethren who would even think that that is too contemporary, who think that the instrumentation might be too modern for their preferences.

And some would even act as if there is a biblical prohibition against that kind of instrumentation, but I think they're hard-pressed to find anything in the Bible that could prove that. But there is.

Preference. Yeah, I would totally agree with that. I would say that within the framework of people who would hold to the use of instruments in worship, you're going to have a more conservative position, and then you're going to have a more non-conservative position, you might say, so that would lead you to using different styles of those instruments.

So yeah,.

Preference would be included. And in fact, there are even differences amongst those who are strictly a cappella in the way that they worship, because they might even think that the melody of some of their a cappella brethren is too lively or modern.

But we will never be in complete harmony until we're in Heaven over these things. Correct. And I don't want to stop right now talking about the G3 conference, because I think we need to continue whetting the appetite of those who might attend.

It is...your conference, I don't even know how you pull it off, but the roster of speakers at your conference is longer and deeper than any conference I've ever attended, or even heard of, I think. We should have let our listeners know at least some of the highlighted speakers are Dr. Steven J. Lawson, who I just had the privilege to interview again on-site at the Foundations Conference.

Of course, Anthony Methenia, who I mentioned earlier, who is the pastor of Paul Washer. And by the way, Paul, even though his name is no longer on the Internet roster, he told me after our on-site interview at the Foundations Conference, he said he's going to be there at.

G3. Is that still the case? It's on the website,.

Absolutely. Oh, it is still on the website. Oh, for some reason I don't see him anywhere right now looking at the photographs. But Paul Washer, if you've never heard him take a train, plane, automobile, or parachute anywhere, you could get to hear him, because he is absolutely magnificent.

I'm amazed whenever I speak to someone, a Christian, who does not know who Paul Washer is. And in fact, I just was sharing fellowship with a sister in Christ that I've known for about 20 years, and she had never heard of Paul Washer, so I immediately texted her a YouTube link for one of his sermons.

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries,. Phil Johnson, the executive director of Grace To You, the media ministry of John MacArthur,. My friend Todd Freel of Wretched TV and Radio,. Derek Thomas, who is a world-renowned Presbyterian author, conference speaker, and pastor.

Hopefully Dr. Tom Askell will still be there after his recent health issue. Do you have any update from Tom, whether he.

Still intends to be there? At this point, Tom is still planning to be with us. He is progressing rather well, and he has demonstrated and expressed his gratitude for the prayers of everyone who's been praying.

So those that might be listening who have any understanding of the health concern Tom has gone through recently, we want to say thank you for praying for him.

Amen. Well, he is the executive director of Founders Ministries, which is a Calvinistic ministry within the Southern Baptist Convention. Stephen J. Nichols, who is the president of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries.

Kosti Hinn, I'm so glad. I don't know if I was a catalyst in this, because I remember when I first mentioned Kosti Hinn to you a number of years ago, you did not know who he was at that time. But I'm so delighted that you finally did invite him to speak at the G3 conference coming up this January 16th through the 18th, and he is the nephew of Benny Hinn, the world-renowned, or should I say notorious heretic and charlatan, and Kosti doesn't mind me saying that because he says that much and more, because one of the primary goals of his evangelistic ministry, other than of course, first and foremost, declaring the gospel, is to renounce and expose the deceptive, deadly, and damning deceivers in the Word of Faith movement, of which his uncle is a part, in fact a leading figure, and Kosti has renounced that upbringing of his, and is now a Reformed Baptist and a Cessationist in Arizona.

He was, up until very recently, pastoring in California, but now is in Arizona. And of course, we have Darrell Bernard Harrison, what a gifted brother he is, and many more, but John MacArthur, as I said earlier, has been added to the roster, and I would go to the G3 conference if it was just John MacArthur.

John MacArthur’s Book on Worship and the Conference Website

Yeah, and since you mentioned that, Chris, I think it would be really good to just say, since we're talking about worship today, and since we're going to be talking about worship at the conference, John MacArthur wrote a little short book on worship, talking about the ultimate priority of worship some years ago, and it is such a really good book.

I would encourage anyone who's listening to just purchase that book, especially if you're planning to attend the G3, it would help you prepare yourself for what you're going to hear during the conference.

Amen. Well, and there are more on top of that, and if you'd like to get more information, of course we're going to be, God willing, mentioning this website later, or throughout the interview. It is g3conference .com, g3conference .com, and as I've been saying every day, I urge you not only to register to attend, but if you are a business owner, a parachurch leader, or you're running some kind of an event that you want the body of Christ to be aware of in large numbers, as long as you pass the theological litmus test of the G3 Conference, I would urge you to register for an exhibitor's booth, just like I will be manning for my fourth year in a row there.

Something always, and I'm not exaggerating, something always extraordinary happens for Iron Trip and Zion Radio whenever I man an exhibitor's booth there at the G3 Conference. And of course, I'm assuming that those of our listeners who want to register for an exhibitor's booth should do so even more quickly than those just wanting to attend as individuals because the space will run out for the exhibitor's.

Booths before the attendees, right? Yes, we have two spots available for anyone who wants to exhibit, so if you're interested, then you'll need to reach out to us very quickly, and you can do so just by going to the website and finding the links, and then just reaching out to us.

If you have problems, then you can always just give us a call through the church office. Great. Well, we have.

The Value of Conferences and the Local Church

A listener already who has a question for you, Josh. We have John in Bangor, Maine, who says, I've been hearing the complaint a lot lately of people who say I'm conferenced out, and they seem to think that Christians make too far big of a deal about going to conferences and running them.

What is the appropriate response to such brethren? Because obviously if you conduct an annual conference, you would disagree with it. And I disagree with people who say that. Number one, if you're conferenced out, then stop going to them.

But I think the issue, and I'm sure you would agree, the issue is not whether someone is conducting conferences. The issue is how biblically faithful are they, or how biblically faithful are the speakers, and so on.

And if you could say anything else you'd like to say in response to that.

Yeah, so my response would be that I think that if you're conferenced out, then maybe you should think about attending less conferences. But I don't think that conferences in and of themselves are wrong or bad.

And I do think that there can be an unhealthy commitment to conferences just as well as there can be an unhealthy commitment to seminary that would somehow overshadow the local church. But something that G3 Conference has maintained from year number one, and will always be committed to so long as I'm involved with it, is that we're going to be champions of the local church.

So when we start off in the very opening address, we're going to be talking about the importance and the priority of the local church. In fact, I'm going to be preaching from 1 Timothy chapter number 3, and I'm going to be talking about the church.

And then when we finish in the closing benediction of that conference on Saturday, we're going to be talking about now that we have spent time together for three days, it's time to go back home and to get into the trenches and to love one another and serve together and worship together and exercise our gifts together in the context of a local church.

So the problem is not conference in and of itself. The problem is the mindset of someone who might say, I'm going to go from conference to conference and neglect my local church. That would be where the problem is.

But if they come with that sort of mindset to G3, they're going to find themselves very uncomfortable because we're going to be champions.

Of the local church. Amen. One of the great values of conferences that I have found over the last 30 years of my being a regenerate Christian I would compare it to expository preaching. If you have a pastor that hobby horses on certain subjects and is not involved in expository preaching where complete books and chapters of the Bible are preached through week by week where you get more of a full-orbed understanding of the word of God, the whole counsel of God.

If somebody is hobby horsing, you're going to miss out on that and you may stunt your spiritual growth. You may only understand and learn about a handful of teachings from the scripture or comparative handful.

And of course preachers who do that are more likely than those who are committed to expository preaching to be involved in eisegesis and perpetuating the traditions of men and so on. And the reason why I'm comparing conferences to that is that there are men and I hope that I'm not insulting too many pastors out there and let me start off by saying I think that pastors must guard their pulpit very seriously but at the same time some have such an exaggerated view of their own importance and abilities that they never let anybody else ascend into that pulpit unless perhaps they are themselves sick or on vacation.

And I think you're robbing the congregation of being introduced to really gifted brethren in Christ and I just thank God for my not only my very first pastor, Mike Gadosh founder of Solid Ground Christian Books who was my very first pastor who baptized me, but even my current pastors at Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

They do not protect their pulpits in a greedy way and they have conferences. They expose the congregation or introduce perhaps is a better word. They introduce the congregation to men of God that are very gifted that they might not ever hear preach if they were not more generous with their pulpits and they may have insight into the scriptures that pastors, and this is not an insult they may have insight into different aspects of the scriptures and theology and doctrine that the pastor of that church may have missed just like each and every Christian has some kind of a blind spot.

Am I making sense here?

Sure. Yeah, I totally agree. And that's why I mentioned the seminary thing a moment ago, because I think that seminary can be a wonderful tool of someone who might be called to pastor a church, to develop their gifts.

Again, I think that sending them to certain institutions that are committed to the local church and to developing pastors like the Master Seminary is extremely critical. But again, what is a seminary?

It is a parachurch ministry. It comes alongside the local church. So you can't allow the cart to get before the horse or there's going to be a massive wreck down the way someplace. And so if a conference shadowing the local church, then we've missed it.

Or it might be some ministry like, you know, some sort of college ministry, and you might think, well, you know, it's not really as sexy or appealing or it doesn't seem like front line ministry to just be a part of the ordinary simple, you know, worship and service within my local church as it is maybe within that certain ministry on the college campus.

So you give up on the local church and you commit yourself to something other than what God has called you to, because God has not called us to give our lives to these ministries that somehow become, you know, imbalanced, you might say, or they overshadow the local church.

God has called us to center our lives in the context of a local church. So again, I think conferences are really good things. Obviously I do, or I wouldn't be a part of the G3 conference and the G3 conference ministry itself, but I do think that we will always maintain this healthy approach to point people back.

Go back home. Get involved. Use your gifts. Be committed to your local church.

Worship as Reformation, Participation, and the Regulative Principle

Praise God. Well, we're going to our first station break, and if you would like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. As always, please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's say you disagree with your own pastor or elders over the manner with which they worship, or perhaps you're a pastor, you disagree with your own congregation or fellow elders or denomination over this issue, or whatever the case may be where you would prefer to remain anonymous because the matter is personal, we would be more than happy to allow you to remain anonymous.

But if it's not a personal and private matter, if it's just a general question, please give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And Pastor Josh, I don't know if you have access to your email, but I'm actually going to forward you a question that you can look over, and if not, I'll just read it to you anyway when we return from the break.

But I just thought it might help you to have the question in front of you. It's from a first-time listener that we are delighted to have submit a question for the very first time. So don't go away, God willing, we're going to be right back after these messages from.

Our sponsors. Gotta tell you, for my money, Chris Arnson's radio program is just the best.

Iron. Criticizing. Iron.

I think that's what it's called. This is Todd Friel of Wretched Radio and TV with Phil Johnson of Grace to You, inviting everybody to come to the G3 conference, which has almost instantly become one of the best conferences in the country.

And it is. It's a great conference. I love it. And Chris Arnson was there last year. He's been there, I think, every year. It's great to see him there. You and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place.

So tons of stuff going on. Tons of great speakers. And no matter where you are in the building, you will hear Chris Arnson's laugh. And that's worth the price of admission alone. If you would like to join Phil, me, Chris, and a cavalcade of great preachers, so it should be a cavalcade of great preachers, and me, G3conference .com.

G3conference .com.

And now there's even more exciting news. John MacArthur himself is now also on the lineup at the G3 conference, Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th, 2020. Go to G3conference .com. G3conference .com.

See you there! Spanning nearly a thousand years, the mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of scripture, to provide tools equipping believers and Christian apologetics with evidence for the Bible's reliability, and to introduce Reformation literature and Christian art to a broader audience.

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