March 9, 2022 Show with Oscar Dunlap on “One Man’s Journey Out from the Hebrew Israelites Cult & Into the Christian Faith”

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Wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this ninth day of March 2022. I am so delighted to have as a first-time guest today on iron sharpens iron radio Oscar Dunlap a Former Hebrew Israelite of nine years now serving as a deacon at Apologia Church in Mesa, Arizona teaching in various capacities and leading weekly evangelistic and apologetic community outreaches.

Today We are going to be addressing one man's journey out from the Hebrew Israelites cult and into the Christian faith. It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to iron sharpens iron radio Oscar Dunlap.

It's great to be here, thank you for the opportunity and.

Amen well Oscar if you could. It's interesting that we always have as a tradition here when we have a first-time guest that that guest gives us a Summary of their testimony. How they came to faith in Christ this time?

We're not asking for a summary. We're asking for a two-hour version because that's the theme of our show today one man's journey out from the Hebrew Israelites cult and into the Christian faith, and if you could start with the home that you were raised in what kind of religious atmosphere was present if any and the steps that led to you joining the Hebrew Israelites and then even more importantly how the gospel of Jesus Christ got a hold of your heart and actually removed your heart of stone and replaced it with a heart of flesh and Transformed you into a new creation in Christ.

Perhaps before we even do that though, we will get from you a definition an explanation of What the Hebrew Israelites cult is?

No, they're type of people. They believe these Latinos primarily. They draw the identify their history that God said I would he said he would send them into Egypt again with ships and that is.

Now you said you are in one faction or sect of Hebrew Israelites. How many different groups exist and how? Hostile if at all are they toward each other?

So they say oh really that long now.

Would you categorize this group or all of these sects together as black supremacist groups, or do they just Have a unique understanding of their origins as a people and as an ethnic group. And are whites allowed to join any of these groups?

I mean there are and in history there have been white people who have joined at least rally, but beside the Black Panthers and other organizations that.

Are.

Predominantly.

Have.

Black membership, but if you could explain that.

Yeah, so the the particular the one West Hebrew is white. It's absolutely 100 a black supremacist and a black liberation theology. Gathering a price. He would allow but those members could have no teaching authority.

They could have no authority in the church. They couldn't be elders or deacons. They cannot now the other what continues to be a hierarchy.

Yeah, it's interesting how much of the rhetoric of groups like this if if you left out the colors being favored the skin color is being favored as being Superior over others. You could think you're hearing somebody reading a Ku Klux Klan manual or a neo-nazi Manual and yet you're reading something from a black supremacist group.

And it's also it's also interesting how Elijah Muhammad had a fondness for George Lincoln Rockwell the founder of the American Nazi Party and actually had him speak.

At.

One and perhaps even two of his large rallies. It's utterly amazing, isn't it?

Well, I didn't even know that. Oh, yeah.

Right.

Theology except.

Yeah going back to the Elijah Muhammad of the Nation of Islam. The reason why he had such a fondness for George Lincoln Rockwell and vice versa is that they were very strong outspoken and vociferous proponents of segregation.

Now obviously Elijah Muhammad wanted to have a segregated area of this nation. That was in no way inferior to the white areas, but he's nonetheless Believed that the races should not mix just as white races believe.

But in fact, I Had an encounter years ago in Manhattan. I'm not sure which sect of the Hebrew Israelites it was but I remember finding it interesting that the man speaking had a Very large bodyguard standing with him who is dressed like an Egyptian Pharaoh at least the way you see them dressed in movies like the Ten Commandments and I thought that was odd that somebody claiming to be a Hebrew Israelite would have.

The costume on of an Egyptian Pharaoh made no sense to me. But he but he the the main speaker at this event, which was an outdoor event. They had a platform set up right near Penn Station he told me because I approached him and walked very close to where he was standing with the microphone and speaking and I Asked him as a white man if I have any Possibility of being saved from damnation in his opinion.

He said no. And I asked him well, then why have you been arguing with me about theology for about 20 minutes? What does it matter if you are if you convince me even of what you believe if I have no hope and His answer was very strange he said because you look up to me.

It's like oh, that's news to me. But anyway, so tell us about your upgrimming upbringing and the household in which you were raised and what kind of religious or non-religious atmosphere existed.

By a single mother. City about 25 minutes out. My mother she did not have a prominent male figure in my home. You know growing up we regularly attended church from the church. I couldn't say that the Word of God or the gospel truth.

Looking back. I would conclude we were Christian by proclamation. But our lives were not I rebuild a church on Sunday like that and then go back to our lives. But that it wasn't greatly manifested in our in our day-to-day lives I've been praying was restrict no new birth and even from a young age.

Treat with the scripture. Just because I've seen that people interacted with it in some way I just didn't know what that way reprimanded a lot just just as far as conduct and behavior. But as far as really interacting with it.

Well, how did you come to discover the cult known as the Hebrew Israelites or and let us know? If there was any other false religion that you attached yourselves to before that.

No, so I started to develop Racial Resentment. I started to develop a very skewed view of my history in my history just as an individual and also black history and it started to Project and things like that.

And so my worldview. So that's a bit of the backstory of how it comes to when I turn 18. I have an uncle of mine who gives me a DVD. He gives me a DVD and all this DVD that he received at a like a African-american heritage festival or something of that sort in Detroit the DVD there is.

Hebrews are like teaching there's two guys sitting side-by-side on a video recording and they are teaching this Hebrew Israelite Interpretation of scripture Hebrew israelite doctrines. And so because my world you had already been skewed Scripture had never had a root or foundation in my life accepted it as the Word of God.

How I do now as a Christian would so for that reason when this when this false teaching came I did not have the adequate in order to defend what I have been testing in my scripture because I had itching ears and they were saying some things that I wanted to hear honestly, and and so it I yes, I accepted it as The doctrine truth.

Now now part of the reason why that is is I had never heard the work when this came. I didn't have a great understanding of scripture and I had no way of Protecting seeing what I wanted in it. These guys Impressed me and he knew the Bible much Christians.

I knew I was in the novel of Christians. So when I seen the understanding or what seemingly was the understanding of the text. Interaction.

The Hebrew Israelites' View of Scripture, Christ, and Salvation

Now let's understand a little better some of the theological doctrinal and practical Aspects that are unique to the Hebrew Israelites cult that you were a part of. Yeah, what do they understand to be the nature of Jesus Christ.

Do they actually believe in the Trinity? Do they believe in the hypostatic Union? Do they believe that Jesus is fully God and fully man, etc. And and all the other pillars about about Christ such as his His conception in the womb of a virgin and his self sinless life His death on Calvary and bodily resurrection.

One supreme God amongst other gods.

Wow.

Even after this life they had a Works righteousness. They depended upon one's own merit. You have to live according to the law and me. I live many years. Failing he's righteousness not simply running along with things.

Oh, no. Here's a thought that makes me recoil and cringe.

How about circumcision? Especially if you enter into this group as an adult.

Right and going back to.

Christ himself. Do they believe. I'm sorry if I missed this. Do they believe that he physically rose from the dead.

They do believe he physically rose from the dead, but you mentioned earlier the hypostatic Union. Right, it would. They would. They would they would not hold to a hypostatic Union. We would because they wouldn't adhere to the realization of Christ being Almighty God, right?

John 1 1. They would reject that. They would. They would say the word Elohim in the Old Testament and the word God. They would say he bodily raised from the dead, but they would deny the fact that now.

Do they insist that he was as far as his skin color black? Is that like a?

And that is that is Primary I would say even more so than any of the doctrines that I stated earlier. Primary what they're going to teach primarily Right is the necessity of us understanding that he was a black man.

So just to give a little clarity on that they would say that black people as far as not all black. They would make a distinction between those who are considered African American and in Africans. They would say that those are two different tribes.

Right? Of course, the scripture also says that the bully here was white. So that's an interest.

And of course I would I would also say that any lunatic who believes that Jesus Christ was. And I was identical to a stereotypical Swede or Norwegian, I think that's wrong as well, but and of course the there are there are white supremacists who believe that's an essential aspect of.

Their.

Ridiculous and damnable beliefs. Our email address by the way folks if you'd like to join us with a question of your own is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least your city and state in your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Such as you are in the Hebrew Israelites and you're starting to question your own ideology and that which has been forced upon you.

You perhaps are considering leaving and obviously if you're still in the group, you don't want to just as of yet Identify who you are. I can understand you being anonymous or remaining anonymous where you have a Close family member loved one in that group.

I can understand you remaining anonymous. But if it's general it's if it is a general question, please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence and I'm not sure if you answered this before but is there Any hostile rivalry between the different sects of Hebrew Israelites.

There is differences in doctrine and Not only differences in doctrines but differences on views and the sense that hey We're the original group. Many groups are claiming that their original now. Most of these breaks happen within our lifetime.

They're recent and so I mean the history doesn't go back that far. And so there's much dispute. Kind of the mecca of this is New York City. So many of the groups they either come from New York City or surrounding areas, Philadelphia and With theology that they disagree on and and also very little look at the other ones.

It's a radical some of them look at the other ones as You know severed from any to any salvation and things of that nature. So very hostile most of the remarks. Other Hebrew Israelites great to stay amongst these different groups for each.

And do they.

Incorporate into their religious life. Of course, I'm assuming with different definitions as to why they do them, but do they incorporate things like the Lord's Supper?

Communion.

Baptism things of that nature.

Jasher that they find in the. That's that's interesting because.

The Jews have never identified the Apocrypha or what the Catholics called Deuterocanonical books. They've never acknowledged them as a part of the God-breathed Canon.

Right, sir. It's all those imposters that they are in synagogue of Satan and that they.

And.

And there are though apparently black Jewish groups.

That.

Practice just as Orthodox Jews do and And believe that they trace their ancestry back thousands of years. Whether they're correct or not. I don't know but they are not Really any different other than the predominance of the skin color.

That I'm aware of then then the cult known as the Hebrew Israelites. We have to go to our first break and again if you have a question for Oscar about the Hebrew Israelites cult our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA and only remain Anonymous if your question is of a personal and private matter.

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We are now back with our guest. I am truly fascinated By what we are discussing today. But our guest is Oscar Dunlap former Hebrew Israelite of nine years now serving as a deacon at Apologia Church in Mesa, Arizona a church that is no Stranger to the audience of Iron Truck and Zion radio since I have interviewed Both pastor Jeff Durbin and dr. James are white on this program and even Zack Morgan Quite a while ago was on the program.

And we are discussing today one man's journey out from the Hebrew Israelites cult and into the Christian faith. And if you have a question, our email address is Chris Ornson at gmail .com. Chris Ornson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the USA and we do have a question from Andrew in Brooklyn, New York.

And.

Andrew says how did the black Hebrew Israelites view the verse by verse teaching of Scripture? The black Hebrew Israelites and other groups like them seem to be centered around proof-texting. Godspeed Andrew from Brooklyn, New York, and you might as well include in your answer.

Is The black Hebrew Israelites a proper term for them or is that something that's that folks from the outside call them.

Yeah, so they would just call themselves people in the light typically from the outside. It's not just black he wears the lights. But they call themselves he kind of identifies Didactic people to a verse by verse exposition so they wouldn't deny Line upon line here a little there a little and they say that's the way really their ideology is.

You're not theology with specific doctrine as possible. But they would I say what we need to talk to get created from any kind of any other kind of context. That that's implied there in many different signs in many different types of shadows.

Oh, they'll disregard that and they'll look at the verse in a way that Their view into every verse. So they'll go through a few verses under. Thank you Andrew from Brooklyn, New York.

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Thank you so much for contributing to the program. We have Joseph in South Central, Pennsylvania. Who asked. I have heard that at least one of these Hebrew Israelite sects actually believes the insane teaching that King James Who authorized the King James Bible was a black man.

Was your group one of those that has this teaching? Now when you heard that as a Hebrew Israelite. Did you at all? Scratch your head and say wait a minute let me go to the library right now, or let me just go on the internet and Do a little research about King James.

I mean, that's that seems. I mean, I don't want to be cruel here. But it sounds laughably ridiculous.

Right, so it's not like it's very it's not like it's very long ago like he. Any writing that we have on King James, they're not from that long ago. So it's not one of those things that you can mask in a lot of years and say oh this has been taught Oh, this is the truth has been masked.

Oh, the Bible is about you and therefore Everything that's happening in the world is in some way about deceiving you and hiding the truth of your Ethnicity and your your nationality as far as ancient descendants of ancient Israel when that's your presupposition Everything becomes a conspiracy quite literally.

Everything is a conspiracy. So they'll take because they're coming from the presupposition that the world is. Come together the world has come together in a unified in this coup when you do that. Anything is possible.

Yeah, and.

We have an anonymous listener who asks is One of the reasons in your opinion why black men are drawn to such groups as the Hebrew Israelites and the Nation of Islam. Due to the fact that the black church at large is well known to be very matriarchal not only do they ordain women very often, but they have congregations that are predominantly women.

Does this strength factor of the machismo of male leadership Attracts folks such as yourself into groups such as those I mentioned.

Certainly in the very least and not just in the black community, but this is obviously something that is more Prominent more of a prominent reality in the black juvenile facility. Young boys most of these see that our nation of Islam it makes them more appealing because of that masculine dynamic and then Along with that it's so much of it's about.

It's not it's not offering those things that is necessary for for young men to grow into a Masculinity a dynamic that I think plays a part in and what makes this type of thing appealing.

That reminds me if you go on YouTube You can actually see and hear a sermon by Louis Farrakhan the current leader of the Nation of Islam. Who is invited to a black Baptist Church, I believe in Manhattan, but I could be wrong about the city.

I was first of all, I was first of all amazed. That I don't know why I was amazed at this in this day and age. But I was amazed that they would allow Farrakhan to preach from their pulpit there and the pastor gave him Glowing accolades both before and after inviting him up to the pulpit to speak.

In fact after he's not after he spoke he told Farrakhan that he had an open door for him anytime he wanted to preach there. But it was interesting how if you didn't know who Farrakhan was when or his association with a false religion like the Nation of Islam.

Even though he did not include the gospel in his message. He was actually right on the money. Regarding the lamentable fact of.

The.

Feminizing of much of the black church and.

The.

Pro-homosexual stance that many in the black church, especially in leadership Have although I understand that in the congregations, that's not necessarily true at all but it was quite amazing hearing this and Sadly Farrakhan is a very gifted orator.

And.

But it was just mind-boggling. Watching and hearing this now. Have you ever heard of one of these? Mainline. Predominantly African American churches. Inviting somebody from the Hebrew Israelites to speak from the pulpit.

Yes, there have been entire Congregations. That has happened. And just to speak a little bit more when you have weak theology from from Susceptible to these type of attacks. So if your pastor is weak in his theology, the people are typically weak in their theology.

So when these things come Typically, they have a great congregation.

What a tragedy, but of course Those folks were not regenerate to begin with. But it's still a tragedy. Well, we have to go to our midway break right now and Please start writing your questions for our guest Oscar Dunlap and send them to Chris Ornson at gmail .com.

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