WWUTT 630 Q&A Podcast Preacher's Kids Transubstantiating?

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When I'm not working on my own podcast, what are some of the podcasts that I listen to? If a pastor's adult children leave the faith, is he disqualified from being a pastor?

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And what's with the doctrine of transubstantiation? The answers to these questions, when we understand the text.

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Broadcasting from our basement studio in the heartland of America, this is When We Understand the Text, committed to teaching the gospel of Christ with the whole world.

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A special hello to our listeners in China, Chile, and the Czech Republic.

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Thank you for joining us. Now, here's your host, Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. Hey, I want to start the program with a few things here.

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First of all, I want to give a shout out to Calvinist Batman. Thank you for your podcast.

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To this day, Calvinist Batman has probably paid me the highest compliment that I've ever received about what videos.

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When he said that what videos are the reason why YouTube was created. Oh, that's sweet.

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So he loved the 90 second format of addressing certain biblical topics. And when he had me on his show,

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I don't even know how long ago this was now, 2015, 2014. It's been a while. Yeah.

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We've known him for a while. I had just started with a video. I think I'd only had about two dozen videos at that point.

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And he was pretty early in his podcast as well. But I remember when he invited me on,

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I was like, I'm going to go on a podcast called Calvinist Batman. And I looked it up and his first guest was

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Matt Smethurst. And I listened to that interview. I was like, this is great. So I jumped on his podcast.

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That's right. And so he goes more by Calvinist Batman and friends now. So we're the and friends portion of that program.

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But thank you so much for what you're doing with Calvinist Batman. I pray that the Lord continues to bless you with your podcast.

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And one of the questions that I have today actually has to do with podcasts that I listen to. And unfortunately,

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I can't say that Calvinist Batman is one that I regularly listen to. But whenever he gets ahold of me and says, hey, you ought to hear the interview that I did with so and so this week,

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I always pull it up. He always does great with his questions. And to this day,

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I'll talk to people that have been on his program and they will say, man, he asks great questions. He really does his homework before he gets on those things.

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Good job. So I want to mention that. Thank you for the program that you do and being passionate about the gospel of Christ, presenting sound teachers before the brethren as well.

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Speaking of sound teachers coming up here in oh, we hope it's next week, but I don't know for sure because we're having trouble getting our schedules to line up.

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Oh, yeah. We're going to have special guest Kosti Hinn on the program. So on the Friday edition of the broadcast, we're going to do our

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Q &A with Kosti. Kosti has a new book that he co -authored with Anthony Wood entitled

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Defining Deception. And this book exposes the lies that are coming out of Bethel Church, Jesus culture, the

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Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry, everything that is connected with Bethel Church, Bill Johnson and, you know,

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I want to say and all of that ministry, but it's not ministry. It's right. It's false teaching.

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Anyway, that's what the book Defining Deception exposes. And so here's what we want to do. I would like to give away some free copies of that book.

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Oh, that'd be awesome. And I want to extend to the listeners to present some questions that can be asked of Kosti.

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Oh, perfect. I've already got some questions. We're going to ask him. So we're going to open with some of these questions.

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But then I want to pick about two or three from the listeners to ask Kosti. So if we use your question, you'll get a copy of Defining Deception.

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Ooh, do your homework. That's right. So you need to come up with a question and include your name and address when you submit that question.

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So you can't do this anonymously. I actually have to know where I'm going to mail the book to if we use your question.

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So send those questions to when we and they will be safe. Your addresses and yeah, we won't include that info on the air or anything like that.

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We're not submitting that information to anybody. Nope. So just stops with us. That's right.

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Send your question to when we understand the text at gmail .com. Be sure to include your first and last name and mailing address where we would send the book to if we decide to use your question.

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Yes. And in the meantime. That'd be awesome. Bring them out. You're welcome to check that book out on Amazon and pick up a copy for yourself.

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And if we use your question, you'll just get another copy you can pass on to a friend. Exactly. That's right.

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And I would like to do some more book giveaways with the Friday episode. Cool. We're going to make that a regular priority,

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I think. Now, just to clarify, they're not going to be the books that people give us for the library.

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Oh, that's right. Yeah. So we'll give somebody a book and then they'll send it back to us and we'll put it in the library.

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That's how it'll get paid forward. I don't know how we're going to do the whole book idea. You know,

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I could I could appeal to some publishers and see if they'll give me some perks. Well, yeah, we'll see how that goes. And then

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I had one other thing. So three things to mention. We said hey to Calvinist Batman. We said we've got

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Kosti Hinn coming on the program. Maybe that will be next week's episode. We'll see if we can get that to work out. And then number three,

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I just want to say thank you to everybody who has been supporting us financially. Oh, yes.

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It is greatly appreciated and thank you for considering when we understand the text with your giving.

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Of course, in the United States of America here, we're entering into tax season.

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And so if you get a good tax return, consider your church first. That's where you need to give first.

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Most definitely. And then if you have something that you know that you can contribute to our church, we would greatly appreciate that.

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And so you can find out how to give by going to our website, www .utt .com.

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Click on the give tab and you can either submit online or you can give by check.

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And some folks have included some very kind letters with the gift that they have sent to us.

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We are going to read some of those messages to our church at a members meeting that's coming up on Sunday so that our congregation knows this is what when we understand the text is meant to other people, not just in the

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United States of America, but around the world. That's right. And that's something I want to be more conscious of too, because as our listenership is growing, we're reaching into newer countries.

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We're getting emails from different countries. That is so cool. I want to try to be more mindful of the fact that we're not just in the

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US of A anymore. In fact, I - And a lot of our jokes probably pertain more to the

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US of A. Yeah. Sorry guys. And my examples, they're very American. I know. They're probably even very

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Kansan on top of that. Most likely. So we have some big city listeners even in the

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US that are going, boy, this boy's from the country. He doesn't have any idea. And then on the other side of Kansas, they're like, them city folk.

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Yeah, right. Exactly. I actually did grow up in a big city, but I haven't lived in the big city for a long time.

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I have not had the privilege at all. She's Kansas born and raised. Yep. Small town.

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This is the largest town that I've lived in? Is it Emporia? No, you lived in Emporia. Is Emporia bigger?

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Yeah, I think it's larger than Junction City. Well, college season, maybe. Not if you include

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Fort Riley with Junction City. And it is. It's all under the same zip code. It's basically one. It's just a very spread out small town.

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It is. I mean, there's no tall buildings or anything like that in Junction City. No skyscrapers. Yeah. Nothing. There's no urban sprawl.

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It's all. Annie's really been confused with what's considered a city. And she's like, well,

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Junction City is not a city. I'm like, well, yes and no. Because we've made a lot of cross country trips and we've been through major cities.

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So they've seen all of that. They've been exposed. That's right. So on the

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Friday edition of the broadcast, we take questions from the listeners and you can submit those questions once again to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

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Oh, speaking of which, I did get a question by mail, a letter. Oh, cool. And I can't remember what

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I did with it. No. I know, it was terrible. But I got to try to find that. And we'll get that on the on the program one of these days.

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So this first question is from Mark in Indiana. And he says, Pastor Gabe, I was wondering what podcast slash pastors you listen to.

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I spent almost half of my day driving. So I have opportunity to listen to quite a bit of podcast.

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I'm trying to distill down all that I listen to, to only a few shows and sermons.

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I feel like consuming too much information, even good information, tends to keep me from prayer and Bible reading and also causes me to be stagnant in my spiritual growth, oddly enough.

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So what are some podcast pastor teachers that you choose to listen to?

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If your time was limited, I guess I could phrase it, what are your top five? Well, to be honest,

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I don't even have a top five. Oh. But I do have a top three. Right. Because that's pretty much all

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I have time for. So the three podcasts that I listen to are these in order. Number one,

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The Briefing with Al Mohler. I start just about every day with that podcast. That's how

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I get news from a Christian worldview perspective, from a Christian worldview.

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The second one would be Renewing Your Mind by R .C. Sproul. And then third would be Wretched by Todd Friel.

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So I listen to them in that order. When I get done with The Briefing, if I have time, I go to Renewing Your Mind. And then if I have more time later on in the day,

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I go to Wretched with Todd Friel. If after that, I've got more time, then I will punch up the

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RefNet app on my phone. And I will listen to whatever is on RefNet. Because that way, I'm not scrolling through trying to select something in particular.

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And wasting my time going, yes, I'll listen to that. No, I don't want to listen to that. I just want something to go right now.

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And RefNet's always a great variety. I mean, you've got not only R .C. Sproul, but also John MacArthur.

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His Grace to You program is on there. Stephen Lawson. You've got Alistair Begg's show.

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Sinclair Ferguson. Votie Bauckham. And sometimes when I think about it,

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I'll pull up Votie Bauckham's sermon audio. It's not always updated with new sermons because he's not a pastor right now.

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He's a dean of the African Christian University. But when he does preach and it gets updated, a sermon will get stuck on his sermon audio page.

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So I'll listen to a Votie Bauckham sermon that way. Or I will go to monergism .org.

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We talked about this last week. And I will type in just a particular scripture reference.

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Like I want to hear something out of 1 Corinthians 15 because that's what I'm preaching through right now. We're actually done with 1

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Corinthians. But say when I was preaching through 1 Corinthians, I wanted to hear something out of chapter 15.

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So I just bring up a reference and then it would give me all the sermons in the monergism audio library.

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And I could just click on whichever and listen to somebody else present or teach on that particular passage.

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So that was wonderful. And then that way I get my notes too. I'm like, oh, okay. Well, this minister said this about this section.

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And then I can add that into my sermon. So that's always helpful. So that's how I go about my podcast listening.

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And you may have a different method, but those would be my top three. I only have a top three. I don't have a top five.

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And then like I said before, if Calvinist Batman gets a hold of me and says, hey, listen to this interview, I'll pick that up.

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Yeah, that's right. And some other folks do that too. They'll send me a Twitter message or something like that and say, hey, we just did an interview with so -and -so.

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Would you listen to it? Or somebody will say, I want to have you on my podcast. Well, then I'll go listen to their podcast first before I say yay.

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Like the bar podcast, Dwayne. Love it, man. Thanks so much for what you're doing.

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Anyway. So you can apply that to whatever you're studying in the Bible. And that would encourage you to study the

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Bible a little bit more. And then you can go to RefNet and then look up on the page. No, no, no, no.

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It was monergism. Monergism. Yeah, right. Monergism. And look up the Bible verses, the section that you're reading.

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And then do a little bit more researching via the people who have researched it.

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Well, I also understand Mark's statement here where he says that he feels like that he's getting kind of bogged down with a lot of information.

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And so, yeah, then it's sometimes difficult to try to go back through what it was that you've heard, what you've listened to today.

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Right. I think if you focus on like one passage or kind of narrow down to that one area, then it's a lot easier to, oh, yeah, and then think about it.

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And then you can apply all of those things together whenever you get home finally and you get to open up your

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Bible yourself and go over it again. And I try to encourage that even with this program. So, it's great that you're listening to somebody else read the

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Bible to you and teach it. But when you have the chance in your time alone with God, be sure to open up your

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Bible and pray and read what the Lord is saying to you today from the Word of God.

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Right. So, not just hearing it from somebody else, but you have your time with the Lord that you can meditate on His Word and pray.

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So, you're getting the Word of God without anyone else's commentary or opinion.

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Right. Which means when you're opening the Word of God and you're doing that, don't read a study

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Bible. Mm -hmm. Have a Bible that doesn't have the study notes. Or you can stick a sticky note over it.

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I was told once that that helps too. Yeah, right. Take a piece of paper and stick it over that. So, you don't have to buy another Bible just for that. Get another

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Bible. Oh, my goodness. I need more. No. Stop. Like this shelf over here.

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Stop. I know. You have ambitions. The pastor's Bible is coming out. Yes. From grace to you.

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I am aware. Yeah. I still want to get the systematic theology Bible, though, the one that Crossway recently released.

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Mm -hmm. And I contacted them about it. I said, I'll do a review of it on my podcast. They said, great. We'll send you a copy right now.

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I never got it. I even got the - I'm telling you. You just need to contact them. I even got the order receipt.

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It even came in. It said zero dollars. They're not charging me for it and that it was sent, but for whatever reason,

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I didn't get it. It didn't arrive. Somebody was blessed with a Bible. They probably needed it.

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That was our first book giveaway right there. There we go. There we go. Just count it as the Lord's gift.

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Somebody got the systematic study Bible from Crossway. Anyway, coming back to Mark's question,

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I don't think it's wrong to listen to podcasts all day. Just make sure that somewhere in your spiritual feeding that there's quality time.

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There is intentional. I'm not listening to this while I'm doing something in the workshop or driving a car, but I'm sitting down with the

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Word of God and with prayer and spending my time with the Lord. Right. But as he's driving, we suggest

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Seeds Family Worship. Songs. Yeah. Music. That stuff's good. Because they make

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Bible verses into really catchy songs. And then what else was there?

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Sovereign Grace Music. Why did you do this? You're welcome. Let's see.

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We said Sovereign Grace Music, City Hymns, and that's all I'm doing right now.

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All right. So there's a few things to - Music -wise to look up. Yeah. Just to add worship to it.

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I mean, not that. Good job, babe. Yep. See, you brought it up.

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And you derailed us both. Yeah. Right. All right. This next one -

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Are you passing the blame? Yes, I am. This next one's from Jean. Hi, Jean.

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Good afternoon, Pastor Gabe. Well, for us, it's evening right now. But anyway, I hope this email finds you well.

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Jean here. Oh, and there she put her Twitter handle. I was trying to find her on Twitter earlier.

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I couldn't remember where she was at. Anyway - I know who she is. Okay. I have a few questions. I'm trying to read here.

16:45

Hi. Oh, sorry. That was really loud. That was. Spiked that one out.

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I have a few questions about pastor elder qualifications, since that's what we finished up recently in 1

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Timothy 3. I see that he is to manage his household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity.

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And in Titus, he is to have children who believe. Were these two different situations?

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I mean, I know they were, but shouldn't they both apply to any pastor or elder?

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What would happen if a man becomes pastor when his children are younger and they never do get saved? By that,

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I mean they've grown up, moved out, got married, had children. Would he then have to step down?

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How long does this go on? Also, what about a man getting saved later in life when his children were teenagers who eventually moved out and are not saved?

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Plus, maybe having children from another relationship, never marrying, obvious pre -salvation, who are not saved and aren't even with him.

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I would never use the word unfair when speaking of our holy sovereign God and what he has laid out in his word.

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I would just like to know if these things apply or count or what. Thank you so much for your ministry and much love to that wife of yours.

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Oh, you're so sweet. So both the instruction in 1 Timothy 3 and in Titus 1 are the same.

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There's really not any difference between must keep his children submissive and his children must be believers as is stated in Titus 1.

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Paul said that an overseer must keep his children submissive to Timothy. So what does that mean?

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What does it mean to keep your children submissive? Well, Titus 1 offers a little bit more clarification when he said that an overseer's children must be believers.

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Right. That's what it means to keep your children submissive. Your children must respect you, must respect mom and dad.

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That's keeping your children submissive. Do your children run the house? Let's hope not. Right. Or do they obey mom and dad?

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They are respectful to mom and dad, respectful to other adults. This would be one of the indications that they are believers.

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They would confess Christ. They would say that they are Christians, though they may not be old enough yet to show fruit of the genuineness of that conversion.

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Yet on the outside, we see it displayed that they make a confession of Christ. Right. We can observe that and their behavior follows that.

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What they say and what they do are the same. So you're saying not a traditional PK. Right.

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Not the euphemism PK. There we go. Right. Where you have, as Vodie Bauckham says, children who live like the devil.

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Right. Yeah. And for those who are not in America, I don't know if that's a name. PK? Worldwide.

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Yeah. It would be like BK. Yeah. There we go. A bishop's kid. Yeah. Or a missionary kid.

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I've also been. A presbyter's kid. In which case it would still be PK. So when we're talking about being believers, we're talking about what we observe.

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And this was something that was, was it Monday or Tuesday? I talked about the invisible church versus the visible church.

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Well, you know, I preached about it on Sunday. Oh, yes. Becky's making a shrugging gesture. I don't know.

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You expect me to keep these days straight with these kids? Remember what you've said, let alone what

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I've said to my own children. So anyway. So the visible church aspect of our children in church.

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Does the pastor's kids display, you know, and you're not modeling those kids or holding those kids to a standard of maturity that should be on the level with adults.

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Oh, no, no. Right. So it's like, well, that kid certainly doesn't have the kind of kind of maturity that Bob has over here.

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You know, it's not like that. Right. So it's according to what we know of what well -behaved children should be in church.

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I hope the pastor's kids are like that. We've talked about different scenarios and things like that on the podcast in the past.

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I mean, if the pastor's kids bullying everybody else's kids, that's going to be a reason to approach him and say, hey, we've got a problem with your kids.

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That would be a reason to approach anybody and say, we've your your son's being a disruption in our

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Sunday school class, right? Or the way that he talks to other kids is just not very Christ like. So in any of those situations, you would want to approach the parents.

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And so hopefully the pastor would be receptive to that instruction and would therefore discipline his children to be submissive to the instruction of the

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Lord. So then if those if those children grow up and they leave the home and later in life, they leave the faith, that does not instantly disqualify the overseer from his position.

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Maybe it does, but that would have to be at the church's discretion. What did the church observe going on in that pastor's life and in his family's life that may have led to that?

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I think it's safe to say that every situation should be slowed down and looked at very thoroughly on whether or not that is a case by case basis.

21:54

Thank you. Yeah. Right. Yes. So not just not going at it legalistically. And even if there is some clear wrongdoing that was going on in that pastor's family, don't approach it from a legalistic standpoint.

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This has to be done lovingly and with care. This is that whole concept that Paul... Poor old sinners.

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Precisely. They all fall short. This is that approach that Paul made with the Thessalonians in 2

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Thessalonians 3 when he said, do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.

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So this is not for the sake of us upholding a tradition or following a certain religiosity.

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We're caring for souls. Whenever we approach somebody with any kind of disciplinary matter, it doesn't matter if it's an elder or his wife or his children or anyone else in the church.

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We do this out of love and care for each other. The way that Paul puts it in Colossians 3 is that we would encourage and admonish one another.

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To admonish means to correct with goodwill. So you actually have that person's best interest in mind, not trying to defend your own ideology, but that you care for somebody else to the point that you're saying...

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And it's not up to your standards. Right. According to what the Bible has to say. It's the

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Bible. Yeah. We care for one another in love, even correcting in love. My words are not coming out.

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So if the pastor is not responsible for his adult children, then he's not held accountable.

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So if you have determined that this pastor's kids who later left the faith after they moved out of the house, and you can tell that that was by their own choice and it has nothing to do with the way that he was raised in his home, then you can't hold the elder accountable for that.

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Whatever his children are doing, living out on their own, he's not being held accountable for. Remember that Job was called a righteous man, and he would sacrifice for his children who may have cursed

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God in their hearts. That was the reason why he would go and sacrifice for them. After they had a long night of feasting and partying and enjoying themselves, as talked about in Job 1 .5,

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Job would then go and sacrifice for them. And yet he was still called a righteous man.

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Their actions were not held against him. And so this would likewise be the pastor with his adult children.

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So again, evaluate the situation. You're close to the pastor, you know his home life and the way that he treats his wife and his children.

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So if there's something in his adult kids life that you would think would be the pastor's fault, evaluate that graciously.

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But for the most part, whatever his kids do, that's on them. That's not on him.

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And also know that his heart is probably breaking because of their sins.

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And so how much more do you want to open that wound for him and for his wife, who are no doubt mourning over the fact that they have a child who has walked away from the faith.

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Right. John Piper's talked about this before, because his son, Abraham Piper, had walked away from the faith.

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And then about four or five years later, just reading through the book of Romans, was convicted over what it was that he was reading.

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I remember that. Yeah. Amazing. I love the statement that he makes where he sat down with a can of beer and rolled some cigarettes and started reading the book of Romans.

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And he said, by the time I got to chapter, oh, I can't remember the chapter now.

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I think it was chapter 10. By the time I got to Romans 10, the beer was gone, the ashtray was full, and I was a

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Christian. That was beautiful. That's just gorgeous. I love that story. I love reading that from Abraham.

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So, anyway, Abraham Piper, not the forefather, the patriarch.

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As long as his children live in the overseer's home, so you're talking about small kids or adult kids, they should be believers.

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But whatever decisions they make living on their own does not reflect upon the overseer. So let's say that the overseer's child was 19 or 20 years old.

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They still live in the home, but they are not believers and they live in debauchery. What should be done?

26:16

I've actually had to counsel this situation before, so I have encountered this before. The overseer should ask his child to leave his home if they're not going to serve the

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Lord. Right. And if the overseer does not manage his home in this way, that would reflect negatively on his character, even though his children are adults, but they still live in his home.

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He's not managing his own household well. So that same level of discipline is to be exercised in the church.

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If someone refuses to follow Christ, they're not part of the church and they can't stay there. Right. Purge the evil person from among you, as the

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Apostle Paul said to the church in Corinth. While the overseer's children are young, how does he encourage and admonish them?

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Ultimately, that's the test of his character that you're looking for, that he disciples his wife and his children with love and dignity.

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He will disciple the church the same way. Right. And as, oh, I can't remember who said this recently.

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I want to say it was Kevin DeYoung. But anyway, when you're looking at the qualifications for overseer in 1

27:21

Timothy 3, they're not spectacular. These aren't like super qualifications.

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Oh, it was Jonathan Lehman that mentioned this. So I remember that because I read that article on the podcast. But anyway, these aren't spectacular qualifications.

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It's something that all Christians should do, with the exception that the overseer has to have an ability to teach.

27:41

So he is a model of mature Christianity for all believers. That everybody should follow.

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Everybody should aspire to this. Now, when it comes to being married and having kids, so we've talked about this, and I kind of got this in Jean's question as well.

27:55

If his kids grow up and move out of the home, is he no longer qualified to be an elder or an overseer?

28:01

No, he's still qualified. You look at the kind of character that he displayed as a husband and a father when he had children living at the home.

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How did he disciple his kids? If he did that faithfully, and the church can attest to that, then he is still perfectly qualified to be a pastor.

28:19

You consider John Owen, who was married and had, what was it, nine children that died?

28:28

Very, very young. And so you would not have been able to see in John Owen's life a measure of fatherhood because his children were not surviving.

28:38

But I don't believe that disqualified him as a pastor. This was a man and his wife who very clearly wanted children.

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Very much wanted to be parents. So it's not like you're looking for a person who absolutely has to have kids in the home because how else are we going to know how he's going to treat the church of God?

28:55

Well, you can look and see how he treats the church of God. The point, though, is that as a parent and as a pastor, he needs to be consistent.

29:04

He's disciplining and discipling his children the same way he would discipline and disciple his church. If he's neglecting his children, he's going to neglect his church.

29:13

And that's simply the understanding of that. If he's... Now, let's say you have a situation where you're looking at a pastor who's neglecting his children.

29:22

Oh, but we love our pastor and he does such a great job with the church. No, he's doing a terrible job at your church because his children are part of your church and he's not discipling them.

29:32

So it doesn't matter if you're looking at this guy as a hero in the way that he conducts himself with everybody else, but he's just not a great husband or father.

29:40

He's disqualified. Yeah. It doesn't matter how well you think he does with the church. His wife and kids are his primary ministry first.

29:49

And if he's not caring for them, he's not qualified to be a pastor. Well, you're almost more real when you have the people that are most often near you, like your family.

30:04

The people who know you the best, the people you live with. You can't really put on a facade for very long, but with people that come and go, it's easier to put on that facade of, hey,

30:14

I'm a great guy kind of thing or I'm a great gal. And so your family knows you the best.

30:20

And so that's why you look at the family, because that tells a lot about the person.

30:26

Yeah. Like that clip that I played from Vody Bokom, where he said, when you are interviewing a person for a pastor, you should be interviewing his family, not just listening to him preach a sermon and, oh, well, that guy's a pretty good speaker.

30:38

And then voting on it based on that. You're also talking to his wife and his kids. You've been put through it twice.

30:44

Yep. Because when I first came to the church and was interviewed for the associate pastor position, she was up in front of the whole church for that Q &A.

30:54

And we weren't even married. No, we weren't even married yet. We were engaged. And then a second time when

31:00

I was being considered for the senior pastor position, two years later, then she had to go through that all again, even though it was pretty much the same group of people.

31:09

It wasn't like any of that really changed. As far as the pastor search committee went. Oh, that's true.

31:15

It was, wasn't it? Yeah. It was everybody that we'd been at that church with from the beginning. Hmm. Yep. Yep. That's right.

31:21

And I remember the first time we did that interview and you were asked a particular question, you just broke down in tears.

31:29

Oh, my goodness. Yes, I did. It was awful.

31:34

It was one of those backstory questions. The trigger. Yeah. He just totally pulled the trigger and the water works.

31:42

The water works. That's right. Yes. And she was totally fine with answering the question.

31:47

I mean, very smiley, started answering, but then once she started in with the story, it just caught her and she started crying.

31:53

So bad. So I had to pick up for her. I don't enjoy crying, let alone crying in front of people.

31:59

So yeah, there's that. Yeah. So that's been a great start to my ministry, honestly, that we went through.

32:07

That I cried. I didn't just cry, people. I like bawled.

32:12

Yes, she did. Like the whole gasping. Sobbing and gasping. Yes. Oh, it was awful.

32:17

Somebody came up, brought her tissues while I'm continuing to give the answer that she couldn't give because she was sobbing.

32:25

And to clarify, in case I haven't said this, it wasn't like somebody attacked her with some sort of question.

32:31

Oh, no, no, no, no. Not by any means. It was totally fine of a question too. It wasn't like prying too much or anything like that.

32:38

Yeah. Just one of those testimonial questions. Yes. And so as you're talking about how the Lord poured his grace out upon you, yeah, you just get emotional with those kinds of things.

32:48

And apparently that time I was super emotional. Yeah. Yeah. Well, because you're in front of everybody else and it always may, you know, that just kind of raises the tension a little bit.

32:58

Yeah. So this last question here, this comes from, I want to say Eagle. I don't,

33:03

I don't know particularly how to pronounce this name. And I didn't ask when I sent my response, but anyway, so I'm going to say

33:10

Eagle. Okay. I don't know either. I'm sorry. I have butchered names plenty of times before.

33:16

You are certainly welcome to email me and give me a correction. So Eagle says, hey, I was just wondering what is wrong about Eucharist in the

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Catholic Church? Because in Luke 22, 19, it is said, do this in remembrance of me.

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This is the Lord's Supper, Jesus breaking the bread, passing it with his disciples, passing the cup and saying, do this in remembrance of me.

33:39

If there is something that I do not understand, could you please explain it to me? Because this verse was not included in a video when you were explaining about Eucharist.

33:48

Thank you very much. So the video I think that Eagle is talking about is the one on transubstantiation.

33:54

Okay. So this is the Catholic doctrine where, well, I mean, it's the Catholic practice of mass.

34:01

Whenever they have the mass and you have the Eucharist and the cup, when the priest consecrates the bread, the wafer or whatever, and it consecrates the cup, it transforms literally into the actual flesh of Christ and the actual blood of Christ.

34:22

This is the doctrine of transubstantiation is practiced by the Roman Catholic Church. The Orthodox Church practices it also.

34:30

They call it something else. They don't use the word transubstantiation. And then they will try to say, well, it's not the same thing, but it is the same thing, but won't go into all of that anyway.

34:42

So transubstantiation is the Roman Catholic Church practices it with the bread and the cup becoming literally the body and the blood of Christ.

34:51

There are four main problems with this practice. These are the four problems that I've commonly highlighted with the doctrine of transubstantiation.

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Number one, it implies that Jesus is being sacrificed again.

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When the Bible says that he will never be sacrificed again, Hebrews 10, 10 being one of those passages, by that will, we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

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Romans 6, 10, for the death he died, he died to sin once for all, but the life he lives, he lives to God.

35:29

So this is the sacrifice of Christ. He will never be re -sacrificed. But even when you read in the

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Catholic catechism regarding transubstantiation, it even says there that it is a continuing of that sacrifice.

35:43

So they acknowledge that the practice of communion is a re -sacrifice of Christ, but they would argue that it's the continuing of the same sacrifice.

35:56

So it's like his death on the cross is still happening every time we take part in the body and the blood, which

36:04

I want to ask, so what does it is finished mean? When Jesus on the cross breathed his last,

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John 19, 30, he said, it is finished. And he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

36:17

So what does it is finished mean? If we're continuing, if he's continuing to offer this sacrifice, you know what

36:26

I'm saying? Yeah, that would be awful. So the actual catechism that talks about this is 1367.

36:32

It says the sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice. The victim is one and the same.

36:40

The same now offers through the ministry of priests who then offered himself on the cross.

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Only the manner of offering is different in this divine sacrifice, which is celebrated in the mass.

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The same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.

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So according to their own language, this is the continual offering of the body and the blood of Christ.

37:07

That's awful. I mean, that goes sacrifice over with, you know?

37:13

This goes absolutely against what the scripture teaches. When Jesus broke bread and passed the cup with his disciples, they were not eating this bread going, oh, well, gross.

37:24

This is your flesh. What are we doing? This was not weird to the disciples that they were eating bread and drinking of the cup.

37:34

What was strange to them and what they did not understand was the words Jesus was saying. This is my body that is broken for you.

37:40

This cup is my blood of the new covenant. They didn't understand what that meant. Obviously, some people today don't understand what that means.

37:47

Very clearly. Right. Same sort of concept. So that's the first big problem with transubstantiation.

37:53

It's the re -sacrifice of Christ, which goes directly against scripture, as I've demonstrated.

37:58

Number two, it implies that the priest has authority over Christ. For when the priest lifts up the bread and he consecrates it, then

38:08

Jesus enters the bread or it transforms into the body of Christ. Jesus is at the beck and call of the

38:16

Catholic priest. And that's absurd. Paul preaching at the Areopagus in Acts chapter 17, he says, the

38:23

God who made the world and everything in it being Lord of heaven and earth does not live in temples made by man, nor does he live in wafers that are made by man, nor is he served by human hands as though he needed anything since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything.

38:46

And then we also have it said to us in Romans chapter 11, for who has known the mind of the

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Lord or who has been his counselor or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid for from him and through him and to him are all things.

39:02

To him be glory forever. Amen. Amen. We don't control God. We don't tell him what to do.

39:07

No. And certainly not a Catholic priest. So that is the second problem with the doctrine of transubstantiation.

39:12

Number three, this one should be obvious. It suggests cannibalism.

39:19

We're cannibalizing Christ. We're eating his body and blood. Gross.

39:28

I always, I grew up Catholic and I was always grossed out by that. When they told me that that's, that is what it is and you have to think about it like that.

39:37

Right. There's an old joke. I have real problems with that. I think this joke originated with Monty Python, forgive me, but there's a, there's an old joke that goes with a, with Catholic communion and that when you, when you drink the cup, you go, well, this is the blood of Christ.

39:55

This guy must've been wasted anyway. That's a, that's a very irreverent joke, but it nonetheless highlights the foolishness of the

40:06

Catholic communion to believe that, uh, that, that transforms into his actual flesh and blood.

40:12

Anyway. Yeah. Uh, number four, fourth problem with transubstantiation. It argues for the return of Christ in the

40:20

Eucharist, however mitigated that return might be. Jesus explicitly said not to believe such things.

40:26

If somebody says, look, here he is in the inner rooms, do not believe it. Or there he is out in the wilderness.

40:32

Do not go out for his lightning comes from the East and is seen as far as the West. So will be the coming of the son of man.

40:39

So his next coming is going to be visible to the whole world. His there is not going to be any question, right?

40:45

There's not any, Oh, he's over there. Yeah. There's not this mitigated, small, tiny, uh, return of Christ into the

40:52

Eucharist or the cup. Now I've raised this argument with a Catholic before and they got very mad.

40:58

Surprise, surprise. And said, we don't say that we don't believe that at all. And the thing that I couldn't help them to understand is

41:05

I'm not saying that that's taught in your doctrine. I'm not saying that you're saying that you're teaching

41:11

Jesus has returned and he's returned in the Eucharist. Right? I'm saying that's what you're arguing.

41:17

That's what you're presenting. You're presenting the return of Christ in the Eucharist. It doesn't matter that it's not the second coming of Christ.

41:24

You are arguing for his return in the bread and in the cup. And Jesus explicitly said in Matthew 24, not to believe such things.

41:33

When somebody says, look, here he is in the inner rooms. That's what the Catholic priest is presenting when he consecrates the bread and claims that this has become the flesh and blood of Christ.

41:44

He is claiming that Christ has returned in some sort of mitigated way into that bread and into that cup.

41:51

So, so, and you know, in the, in the Roman Catholic faith, it seems to be as long as we don't say that's what it is, then it's not that.

42:01

Right. So we don't, we don't worship Mary. We're, we're venerating Mary. We don't worship idols.

42:09

We're giving tribute to those saints. And you know, the way that we do that is we, we bow before this statue or we kiss this statue or we pray to that saint before this statue.

42:19

Well, but we're not worshiping an idol. Then explain to me exactly what worship is. If you think you can pray to somebody who, to whom you've, you've ascribed omnipresence, which is a quality of a deity.

42:32

So if you can pray to Mary, then she's everywhere. You're claiming that she's omnipresent and you also claim that God has bestowed upon her the title of, of Queen of Heaven, which is also part of the, of the

42:46

Roman Catholic teaching. Anyway, that's another rabbit trail I'm going down, but it's just to highlight the point that to a

42:54

Catholic, as long as we don't say that's what it is, then it's not that. So you can bow down to your television set and pray to it.

43:01

And as long as you're not calling it an idol, then it's not idol worship. That would be the logic applied.

43:06

Yeah. Okay. Yep. I got it. Just making sure you're tracking. Okay. Yeah, I'm tracking. You got it. All right. So anyway, that's, that's my, that's the problem with transubstantiation.

43:15

So in that particular video, it's not that we shouldn't practice communion since you don't practice Catholic communion because it's, it's false communion.

43:22

It is not at all the way that Christ said communion was supposed to be conducted, not the instruction that he gave to his disciples.

43:31

And furthermore, it's not the way that Paul repeats it in first Corinthians chapter 11, when he talks about the

43:37

Lord's supper. First Corinthians 11, starting in verse 23, Paul says, for I received from the

43:44

Lord what I also delivered to you that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed, took bread and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, this is my body, which is for you.

43:58

Do this in remembrance of me. In the same way, also, he took the cup after supper saying, this cup is the new covenant in my blood.

44:08

Do this as often as you drink it in remembrance of me. For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the

44:16

Lord's death until he comes. Right. Very clearly, we're talking about bread as a symbol and cup, which is probably wine or grape juice or that's debatable.

44:26

Right. People argue about what that's supposed to actually be in the cup. But anyway, we're clearly talking about something as a symbol, not something that actually transforms into something else.

44:37

This is another problem that I have with Lutheranism as well, because even though they don't practice transubstantiation, they do believe that the substance of Christ enters into the bread and the...

44:50

I'm not going to explain that right. I know I'm going to butcher that. But I still have a problem with the Lutheran practice of communion as well.

44:57

So anyway, that's transubstantiation versus the way communion should be practiced in a proper way in any, well, let's say,

45:07

Protestant church. The Church of God should be doing communion. Right.

45:13

How often you do that, that's going to differ from one church to the next, I suppose. Most definitely. There are some churches that only do it once or twice a year.

45:21

We used to do it once a quarter until just a few years ago, we changed to the first Sunday of every month.

45:27

But when we do this, what we remember is the body of Christ that was broken for us and the blood that was spilled for the forgiveness of sins.

45:34

That's right. Do this with a good heart and to the praise of God for His glorious grace.

45:39

Amen. All right. Let's pray and then we'll be done. Yes. Lord, we thank you for this time together and we thank you for the questions that have come in from listeners.

45:48

I pray that wherever this program goes out, that it is edifying to the believers.

45:55

And even if somebody who is an unbeliever comes across this program, they hear the gospel of Christ proclaimed.

46:00

They repent of their sins. They believe in Jesus, who is God, born in human flesh, lived a perfect life, died on the cross for our sins, so that all who believe in Him will have eternal life.

46:14

He rose again from the grave, ascended into heaven where He is seated at the right hand of the throne of God, and He is coming back again in judgment to receive

46:23

His own to Himself and bring judgment upon the world of men who did not believe in His name.

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So I pray for all of those who are listening that they would rejoice in the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, for it is the power of the gospel, it is by the power of the gospel that we have been saved, transformed from the kingdom of this fallen world, which is wasting away and will be destroyed, and have been transferred into the kingdom of God, which is imperishable and will endure forever.

46:57

Praise you for your grace and your goodness. In Jesus' name we pray, amen. Amen. I need to light a candle.

48:08

That's what I never understood. I thought they were for free. What, lighting candles in the Catholic Church were free?

48:14

Yeah, I thought you just go and light a candle and say a prayer. Nothing in the Catholic Church is free. Well, I learned that, but the hard way.

48:22

When they made you empty your pocketbook in order to get penance? Oh no, I was a kid.

48:27

I tried lighting the candle just to light the candles because I saw people do it. Somebody got mad at you because you didn't pay for it?

48:33

Yeah, my parents. Well, I didn't know any better.