Tony Costa vs. Bassam Zawadi (Part 2)

Cross-Examination on Muhammad’s Doubt and the Reliability of Islamic Narrations

With a crossfire of 10 minutes. Cross-examination, that's a good compromise. OK. First question, Assam, that I'd like to ask. The reason I brought up the doubting of Muhammad is because you brought that up.

I'm not trying to introduce a red herring here, because you raised the question of Muhammad not doubting when I responded to it during my other period. Now, you mentioned, Assam, that Abu Khari, when he is narrating the calling of Muhammad at the cave, you're saying that his narration is weak, although he's not the only one that makes mention of this.

Are you saying that because this is a weak narration, that it follows that this story is not true? Because on the basis of the criterion of embarrassment, which is a criteria of authenticity that is used in ancient literature,.

Including the New Testament and other sources,.

Why would a Muslim make this up, that Muhammad was possessed by jinn, and they didn't want to take him seriously? OK, thanks. Well, we do apply a different criteria. But I would still say that according to the Western historical method, it's still unreliable.

It's because there are gaps in the chains. So you don't know who's filling the gaps in the chains. So if you don't know who's filling the gap in the chain, you can't apply the principle of embarrassment.

Because the principle of embarrassment can only be applied if you know who the person is and know that he would have no such motive to make up a lie. Now, you would ask, why would a Muslim make up such a lie?

Wow, we could spend all day talking about that. I would refer you to several books on this topic later on, where we know that Muslims have made up these lies. And I'm sure you would have such cases in your own history as well, where Christians would make up stuff, sometimes for good intentions.

But again, the main point I'm trying to stress on is that even if I were to assume, for the sake of argument alone, that this narration is authentic, that the Prophet did try to commit suicide in the beginning, this is between the early stages of Mecca.

So did he die thinking that way? No. When we look at his narrations later on, where he says, I am the first to enter paradise, no doubt I am the messenger of Allah. He's speaking confident. So did he die thinking that way?

That's what I want you to prove. But again, I just feel that I just need to press on this a little bit more. What advantage would a Muslim gain by making up a lie that Muhammad was possessed by a jinn?

And not that he wanted to commit suicide on one occasion, but we're told on several occasions when the time of revelation had ceased, and Yusuf Ali tells us that there was about a six-month to a two-year period where he received the revelation.

Why would a Muslim make up a story that Muhammad would, again, several times want to commit suicide because he had not, and had reassurance at first by Gabriel that he was the Prophet? I don't think you've answered the question.

Why would a Muslim make something so embarrassing as this, which had been recorded in the sources? I'm going to answer it again. There's a gap in the chain. So you don't know who's filling that gap. You don't know if it's a Muslim.

You don't know if it's a hypocrite acting like a Muslim. You don't know what his intentions are. And again, I have the narrations here. And I can even give you further arguments if you want, which gives us good reason to think that the story is not true.

But again, I would see the need to actually have the rebuttal right in front of me. But I would see the need to just delve deeper to this topic. Assuming for the sake of argument, I'll grant it to you only for the sake of argument.

Muhammad tried to kill himself. Muhammad's body was possessed in the early stages of Raqqa. Even if the narration is authentic, that's what it's saying. But did he die upon that position? Maybe he doubted first.

He did his research, and then he became convinced. So there's no problem with that. Eventually, he became assured. So I don't see the reason why I need to delve any deeper here. I'm willing to grant it for the sake of argument if the story is authentic.

So the early stages of Raqqa. And again, I'll refer you to my article on my website, this Raqqa Muhammad's Contemplation of Suicide Disproves Prophethood, assuming he did, for more details. You made reference to Surah 10, in verse number 5, where...

OK, I have Pinfeld's translation. He's in doubt concerning what will reveal unto thee. Then question those who read the scripture that was before thee. In verse 96 of... This is a Pinfeld's English translation.

In verse 96, we are told, And be not thou of those who deny the revelations of Allah, for then wert thou of the losers. Can you not say, O son, that at least it is implicit in 95 and 96 that there is some measure of doubt on the part of Muhammad concerning that which Allah had revealed to him otherwise?

Why would Allah tell Muhammad to question the Ahl al-Kitab, the people of the scriptures? Again, when the verse was revealed, Surah 10, verse 94, the Prophet replied back and he said, I do not doubt, therefore I will not ask.

And when Allah says, And do not be of those who doubt, we have to understand that sometimes in the Quran, Allah speaks to the Prophet directly, but it's actually intended for the general audience reading.

There are several examples of this, like Surah 33, Ayah 1 -3, and other examples from Surah 65 and 66. So, it's not clear proof that when Allah says, And be not of those who doubt, it can simply be a warning.

Make sure you do not become one of those who doubt, and don't be of those who doubt. But, I'm interested, and what I find really interesting, is that the Prophet's response. I do not doubt, therefore I will not ask.

So, that's what I find really interesting. You had mentioned, you had asked for the source for the statement from Abu Bakr, where he says he does not feel safe from the deception of Allah. The source there, I saw, is taken from my colleague, Muhammad Khalid, the successors of the messenger.

That's the source. No, I didn't say it's a hint. I didn't say it was a hint. But, notice again here, you had said that alarm was promised to heaven. It's Abu Bakr that was the first companion who was actually specifically told to enter paradise.

And, my point is this. Why is it that Abu Bakr trusts Muhammad, but his problem is not with Muhammad. His problem is he doesn't feel, he doesn't rest assured from the deception of Allah. And so, he says that he, he says, I would not rest assured, feel safe from the deception of Allah, even if I had to run from paradise.

Now, even though we're not talking about,.

Abu Bakr is not the subject of tonight's debate. Again, I'm not trying to introduce you, I'm hearing.

What I'm trying to say is, if Abu Bakr, who was a close companion of the prophet, whom the prophet sent, who will enter into Jannah. How is it that Abu Bakr, this close associate, had no confidence that Allah would keep his word in this regard?

My simple response is that there's no evidence that Abu Bakr ever said this. I have the reference with me. It's translated by Muhammad Mahdi Sharif, Beirut, Lebanon, 2005. That is not an authoritative source in Islamic literature.

We need to give, and I searched for this both in Arabic and in English. I knew you were going to bring this up in our debate. I searched really hard for this. I could not find this narration. And I find it surprising that Abu Bakr would say this himself.

Because the scholars that I read, and from what I know, Allah's deception is not applicable to believers. It's only applicable to his believers. And I didn't even explain that if you want me to, but it's kind of off-topic.

What does it mean that Allah deceives disbelievers? It's off-topic. So, my simple response is, Tony, prove to me that Abu Bakr said this. I don't think he said this.

Let's hear it. There's about a minute and a half, so you might want to go first.

Okay, I'm actually excited to answer that question, but I'll wait for the cross-examination. Surah 799, you were saying, to show a passage just here, here, to mention something, in Surah 799, we're told,.

And are they then secure from Allah's team? None deem themselves secure from Allah's team, save folk, save folk that perish. So, would you agree, Bassam, that in Surah 7 and verse 99, that what this text is basically saying is, no one is secure from Allah's team.

The only people who think they're safe from Allah's team are the disbelievers. And so, isn't it clearly implicit in this text that this is a warning that we are not to assume that we are secure from Allah's ultimate plan and ordination?

Yeah, so we'll give you the two-minute response. Yeah, I'll give you a minute.

I would say that we need to read this verse in its proper context. If you read the three verses prior to it, it's clearly talking about disbelievers. And I've checked all the commentaries on this. I have not seen any scholar understand it in this way.

And the scholars, and now, just out of everyone's interest, what does it mean that Allah deceives the disbelievers? The scholars have understood this verse to be stressing on the fact that the disbelievers shouldn't feel secure about their salvation just because they're living good lives and having been blessed with good health and materialistic benefits.

The deception of Allah, as understood by the scholars in this verse, is referring to Allah blessing the disbelievers with good health and benefits, which gives them the impression that they have made the right choice in their faith.

It has nothing to do with Allah promising anyone any false promise of security. Again, Tony, I want to remind you that we're not here to debate whether Muhammad misunderstood the Qur 'an or whether the Qur 'an is not clear.

Do you have any evidence that the Prophet felt insecure about his salvation because of this verse? That's what I think you need to tell me. The Asa argument, where you argued that God may be, He may forgive the Prophet, peace be upon him, and I responded back to that in my, I responded to that in my opening statement.

Was my opening statement convincing enough for you or do you have any problems with it? I did not find it convincing simply because the Qur 'an seems to be very clear. Again, I'm reading the Qur 'an as a non-Muslim, not as a Muslim.

From what I gather from the Qur 'an, ultimately, one's salvation,.

One's damnation, rests with Allah. It seems to be a consistent theme,.

And I think the doctrine of Qadr, which is historically a classical doctrine within Islam, maintains the fact that because Allah is so absolutely sovereign, that Allah determines who will be saved and who will not.

And therefore, the language of Asan is consistent with this theological perspective that ultimately, if everything rests on Allah's sovereign will, then it logically follows that salvation is only a possibility.

It's not a guarantee. We kind of diverted away from the Asa argument, but I'll just continue what you just said. You said that assuming for the sake of argument that Islam believes in a very hyper-Calvinistic-like view of predestination, but it doesn't matter whether the Prophet, peace be upon him, would be going to Paradise due to free will or God's will.

What matters is that God promised him that he would go to Paradise. So regardless of why the Prophet is assured because of God's sovereign will, his free will, or whatever, it doesn't change the fact that.

He was assured. What do you think about that? I don't think you've provided anything from the Qur 'an. I know most of the information you've obtained on this question.

Has been from sources that are superior to the Qur 'an. But in the Qur 'an itself, I don't think you have convinced us that Muhammad's assurance has been assured. And Surah 48, verses 1 -2, certainly doesn't seem to intimate that Muhammad's salvation was assured.

It simply says that he may forgive your past sins and your future sins, but when we examine the life of Muhammad, we've noticed there is this consistent anxiety and this fear of Allah. And so, if I forgive you,.

If you've done something against me, and I have forgiven you and I've pardoned you,.

And we've become buddies, and after this event we go out and we have a coke or something, we're at peace with each other.

You don't have to fear me as an enemy. I've become your friend. So again, if Allah has become the friend of Muhammad, if he has assured him of his salvation, then why is this this constant anxiety and this fear?

The Qur’an, Hadith, and the Question of Muhammad’s Assurance

Okay, I want to put like three mini questions into one, because it's all related to what you just said. One, why are you restricting me to only appeal to the Qur 'an when you know that our authentic sources, Islamic authority sources also believe in it?

Two, you said that Surah 48 -2 is not clear to you that the Prophet has past and future sins forgiven, but when Aisha approached the Prophet and said, why are you praying so late when Allah has forgiven you your past and future sins?

Aisha seemed confident and understood the verse to be saying that, and the Prophet didn't correct her. The Prophet didn't say, no, maybe he will forgive you. Don't, don't, you know, hold your horses. And regarding the anxiety, I already said that it's possible that the Prophet could fear other things such as painful trials in life and painful death, but still be guaranteed about his salvation.

So where could you show me that the Prophet's anxiety was in relation to his salvation? You showed me his anxiety when the eclipse came and the Day of Judgment, but where did it lead to his salvation?

Well, I think that the first, let me answer, you gave me three questions, let me answer the first one. The reason why I'm appealing fundamentally to the Qur 'an is because, first and foremost, the Qur 'an is the Qalamatullah, it's the word of Allah, and the Qur 'an is considered as that revealed word that has come down, that was written in the Quran.

So what I'm saying is, the primary source of your faith is the Qur 'an. The Hadeeth literature, of course, is secondary. It is not fundamental or prior to that of the Qur 'an. And so the reason why I'm asking you about the Qur 'an is why is it that in this word that has come down from Allah, the sacred word of Allah, why do we not find these messages when we have this certainty that we find later in the Hadeeth?

The reason why I talk about the Hadeeth as being developmental, Islam, is because we do notice that there is a trajectory in the Hadeeth where there is development. For just a quick example, I don't want to get off topic.

Muhammad claimed he could never perform miracles. He never performed a miracle. His miracle was the Qur 'an. But in the Hadeeth, you have stories of Muhammad feeding multitudes, water coming out of his fingers.

This clearly shows a development in the thinking of the Hadeeth literature. Now, you're talking about the Hadeeth of Aisha and how she comes to the Prophet and he's praying and she says, her sins have been forgiven.

He says, well, why should I not be a loyal slave of Allah? But that still doesn't answer the question. If his sins have been forgiven, past and future, why does he continue to beg for forgiveness 70 times a day, 100 times a day?

And I think the third question had to do with the fear of Allah. Something about why you fear Allah and what basis does that have in his salvation, I think has a lot to do with his relationship of salvation to Allah.

Why is he fearing that the Day of Judgment has come? If he is saved from the Day of Judgment, why does he fear the Day of Judgment? Will we make some effort? Yes, I'm fully aware that the Quran is our primary source, but the Quran continuously tells us to refer to the Prophet, peace be upon him.

It also says, in Surah 69 and 44, that one of the functions of the Prophet, peace be upon him, is to teach us the Quran. And so, we don't read, we're not Hadeeth rejecters, which is a very recent and modern and radical group in Islamic thought.

So, we're Orthodox Muslims and we accept the Hadeeth literature as authoritative. So, yes, the Quran is the primary source, but this very primary source is asking us to refer to another, to the Hadeeth, to the Prophet.

And that's how we understand the Quran. I mean, you have a comment about this? Sure. The only, I mean, there is a question about, I mean, when Muhammad was, one of the Hadeeths were told that when they came to Muhammad, when he was under a spell, the magic that he was under, I think it was Abu Bakr Omar, who said, why do we need the Prophet to write anything?

He was asking for someone to write so that they would not go astray. And I don't know if it was Omar or Abu Bakr, but the response was Omar. Omar says, why do we need the Prophet to write anything since we have the Quran already?

So, it seems to me that Omar recognized that the Quran in itself is fishy. What I'm only saying is this, that the Hadeeth literature, as you know, Ghassan, is a very complicated chain of narration. Abu Qadi took all of these narrations, all of these traditions, and he said that less than 2 were authentic.

That is a large amount of material to see. So, that's why I'm saying the Hadeeth literature, yes, there's levels of authenticity, but Abu Qadi took all of this bonded literature and reduced it to less than 2%.

So, why I'm saying is this, if the Quran is revealed before the Mullah, why is it that the assurance of Muhammad is not clearly set out in the Quran as it is earlier in the Hadeeth? That was the question.

You're asking the question. It's about 2 minutes, the last question. The thing is, because I assume that we're here today and we're assuming the Hadeeth are part of the Islamic teachings and you took that as a given, but now it seems like you're questioning the authenticity of the Hadeeth.

So, this is kind of taking us to a whole new level. Regarding your comment on Abu Qadi saying that less than 2 are authentic, that's actually a very common misunderstanding even amongst Muslims. I wouldn't really blame you for that.

Actually, what happened is that Abu Qadi collected 600 ,000 narrations. When he says narration, he's saying separate chains of transmission. So, there could be one Hadeeth with 14 different chains. So, consider that not one Hadeeth, but 14.

So, that's why the number was so big, 600 ,000. So, he didn't really reject 600 ,000 unique Hadeeth. I guess I really don't know what to ask you anymore because we're kind of, since we're getting off topic to the authenticity of Hadeeth.

So, basically, I'll just basically answer your question. When you said, why wouldn't the Quran have as much details as it does in the Hadeeth, the simple answer is because we don't believe everything is found in the Quran.

There are many key aspects of doctrine that are found in the Hadeeth. We know how to pray from the Hadeeth. We know detailed rulings about our fasting from Hadeeth, and not everything is in the Quran.

So, I thought you were coming with that basic understanding and that we were going to work with that. So, I guess, I don't know. Okay, so you're not solo scriptura Muslim? I am a solo scriptura Muslim.

Okay, so I'm Quranic. So, if I was, okay, so, if I was in a deserted island and all I had was the Quran, would I be able to follow God around me? You would be able to obtain salvation through it because the Quran is extremely clear that God is one and that the five pillars of Islam and key aspects of doctrine are very clear in the Quran.

Okay, so maybe you could just comment a little bit over there. Well, let me begin my closing statements by, again, expressing my thanks to Musa, he's a kind gentleman, and I have a new friend tonight, and it's been indeed enjoyable dialoguing with him and sharing our thoughts with each other, which goes to show that Muslims and Christians can get along.

They can agree to disagree in every way, and to investigate the truth for themselves, and if we believe that we serve the God of truth, then it is incumbent upon us to seek truth, to delve into truth, and to honor God in so doing.

You will remember at the opening of my statement tonight, I argued four points that I believe argue very forcefully that the Quran and the Islamic traditions do show, indeed, an element of doubt in Muhammad, and uncertainty.

I pointed out in the first point that Muhammad displayed a consistent pattern of fear and anxiety in his relation with Allah and the afterlife, and this, of course, is reflected in an absence of security and constant peace that Muhammad had with Allah.

I pointed out his numerous confessions. I mentioned the fact that Muhammad, who confesses sin 70 times, another source says 100 times a day. I also pointed out, and I think Hassan mentioned this, but we didn't get to go into great detail, but remember I pointed out that Muhammad's death was not expected, and if you remember what I said earlier in the Quran in Surah 69, it refers to Allah punishing those who would tamper with his word, who would change his word, by grabbing them by the arm and by removing the aorta, that is, their life artery.

Remember when Muhammad was dying, he said that he not only had agonizing pain in his neck, but he said that he felt as if his aorta was being severed because of the poison that he had ingested. Now, there are cases in the Quran, we mentioned this again first, the only reason why I mentioned this again first is because we do have an example here where there was some tampering with the revelation of Allah, but there is also in the traditions a story of a scribe that Muhammad had by the name of Abdullah bin Asad, and this scribe became an apostate because as he was writing down the Quran as it was being recited by Muhammad, he had suggested to Muhammad rephrasing certain parts of the Quran to make them sound lofty.

Muhammad gave him permission and of course he said, well, if I, a regular scribe, can change the word of Allah, how can this be the word of Allah? And I think we do seem to have some evidence here that there is some tampering that went on with the words of the Quran.

And so it's interesting that the warning that Allah gives against those who tamper his word is the same expression that Muhammad speaks of in his death. The third point that I mentioned as well is the fact that Muhammad is the only prophet upon which Allah and his angels are praying for.

Of course, we have to ask the question, why does Allah have to pray? And if Allah prays, then who does he pray to? Because if Allah is praying to someone, then we have a shirt here. But of course we are usually told that salah here means blessings.

Well, the Arabic word is barakah. The word for blessings, barakah, the word for prayer is salah, prayers. Why is it that Moses is not prayed for? Why is it that Abraham is not prayed for? Yes, the hadith that talks about honoring the companions of the family of Muhammad, etc.

But notice that the Quran says nothing about praying for Moses or sending blessings on Jesus or sending blessings on Noah. The Quran only calls on Muslims to call blessings down upon the prophet Muhammad.

Now, why do you have to ask Allah to pray for Muhammad? Why do you need to ask Allah to bless Muhammad? Again, if he is in Jannah, what's the need to pray? Now, I understand why Roman Catholics pray so that loved ones can be released from purgatory, but why do Muslims have to pray?

And I think the source of all this, if Muhammad was assured of his salvation, on what basis was he assured? I think that's important. We must mention the basis of his assurance, not just whether he was assured or not.

Why was he assured? How did he feel assured? On what basis? I think this rests on the fact that the Quran presents to us that Allah is a schemer, that Allah can deceive, he can deceive, and this explains Abu Bakr's reticence to trust Allah.

And so, I submit to you tonight that I think the evidence points in the direction, according to the Quran, that Muhammad was not fully certain of his salvation. And that's why, later, the youth literature had to develop that in a shared event for future Muslims.

Tony reaffirmed his argument regarding why did the Prophet say that his aorta was paining him? And he related this to the Quranic verse which spoke about where Allah said that he would cut the aorta of the Prophet, peace be upon him, or the artery, if he were to make up revelations.

And he mentioned Abdullah bin Abi Sadr as an example. But first of all, the narration regarding Abdullah bin Abi Sadr is not authentic. The narration discussing his apostasy states that when he apostatized, well, first, let me give you a background of the story.

Abdullah bin Abi Sadr was one of the scribes of the Prophet. This is what the narration says. He was one of the scribes of the Prophet and then he said that one time he, Abdullah bin Abi Sadr, was writing something that was really not part of the Quran and then the Prophet approved of it.

So Abdullah bin Abi Sadr said, what is this messenger? So he left Islam and he went to Mecca. That's what the story says. But the narration which is not authentic, the narration discussing his apostasy says that when he apostatized, he returned to Mecca, which indicates that his apostasy occurred in Medina.

However, the disputed verse that Abdullah bin Abi Sadr is talking about, which he said that the Prophet allowed him to tamper with, was Surah 23, which according to experts of Quran sciences was fully revealed in Mecca before the Prophet's migration to Medina.

Hence, this story is a fabrication, or at least doubtful. Secondly, why should I believe Abdullah bin Abi Sadr's testimony if he actually did state it? Thirdly, if it were true that the Prophet would allow the scribes to add to the text as they pleased, then how come it was only Abdullah bin Abi Sadr out of the more than 40 scribes of the Prophet that felt uneasy about it?

Fourthly, none of this shows that Muhammad peace be upon him doubted his salvation. So again, I don't know how this is related to the topic. I provided statements from the Prophet peace be upon him himself where he stated with confidence that he would be the first to enter paradise.

His past and future sins have been forgiven, which logically implies that his salvation is secure. He said that he had no doubts about being a messenger of God, which means that he had no doubts and was assured of the fact that Allah informed him about his salvation.

All this evidence is explicit and not a single shred of explicit evidence has been provided to counter this. The next step we should all take is to study and investigate the source and reason behind why Muhammad peace be upon him felt assured about his salvation, which is the Quran.

If you approach it with an open mind and an open heart, I believe that God will make it a source for you to seek your salvation from as well. Thank you very much.

Thank you. So basically anyone who wants to ask a question, stop up and open mic. This is a question for Tony. Tony, are you.

Assured of your salvation and if you are, do you ever ask for forgiveness? If so, why not? I don't know whether the question is relevant to Muhammad's salvation, but if you permit me to answer the question, I can answer the question if that's okay with the moderators.

Okay, all right. I am assured of my salvation not because of something that I have done, not because of any good that I have done or any barriers that I have heard. My salvation rests alone on the finished work of Jesus Christ, the cross of Calvary and his resurrection.

And it rests on the fact that God chose me. I did not choose God, he chose me, Christ, and he has saved me and he has forgiven me. Now the confession that I make for my sins is a forgiveness that has been already provided by God through Jesus Christ's death.

In the New Testament, and because you asked me a question about my Christian conviction, I have to refer to the New Testament here. In the New Testament, in the first letter of John, chapter 1, verse 7, we are told there that the blood of Jesus, his son, continues to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

And so the forgiveness of my sins has already been provided for. It doesn't mean that when you become a believer you become sinless. It doesn't mean you become perfected and it's not here on this side of heaven.

But what it means is that even if you fall, God has already made a provision through Jesus Christ for you. But that's why I kept asking the psalm in my debate, in my opening statement in my rebuttal, I kept asking the psalm, what is the basis of Mohammed's assurance, my basis is the finished work of Jesus Christ.

And that is the basis of my assurance. I can't just say.

Yeah, I have assurance that I have saved and that's it. That ends the discussion. My salvation rests on something and it rests on the finished work of Christ. That's why I kept asking for a question about on what basis does Mohammed's assurance rest.

Tony, I'm not sure if you answered the question. I think the answer is yes. I do. And that's because as I said, the New Testament does not teach that we become perfected here. But the provision for the forgiveness of my sins is secure.

It's already given to me by the finished work of Jesus Christ. And it's an ongoing thing. It's an ongoing cleansing that is available to the children of God. So that's the thing. I think Christians can be assured that they have salvation.

If you're an Arminian and you believe that apostasy is possible, then you don't know whether you're going to apostatize in the future. If you're a Calvinist and you believe that God elects those who are to be saved, I don't think you have any way of knowing that you're from amongst the elect.

Sure, the Bible does provide the believers with a way on how to test whether you have the.

Holy Spirit dwelling inside of you. And it tells you that you would bear the fruits of the Spirit. But the Bible doesn't provide you with a clear 100 way on how to test whether you do have the Holy Spirit inside of you.

And that's what I would say. And I don't want to delve any further on to that point because I think we'll be running off topic. Wonderful debate guys. My question is specifically for Tony. Tony, you alluded to throughout your talk that the Prophet Muhammad has shown some sort of fear and anxiety throughout his life, and especially was praying and asking for forgiveness.

As I recall when I speak to my Christian brothers, they mentioned that Jesus was also praying and he showed some fear when he says, take this cup away from me. And I asked them, what is that reflection?

And they said that shows Jesus' humanity. So can we not, when I look at that, when you state that, can we not assume that by this sense of.

Contradiction, can we not show Muhammad's humanity as what he was actually fearing? The question about Jesus' prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane, it's not described as fear. No word doesn't say that he was afraid, that he feared.

What the context shows us is that Jesus is in the Garden, he is about to face his execution. This is the Thursday night after he's had the last supper with his disciples. The following day he's going to be arrested in the Garden and he's going to be taken the next day and he's going to be executed by crucifixion.

If you read the text very carefully, Jesus does not say he's afraid. He says to the Father, is it possible? Is there another way that this cup won't pass from me? But, not my will, but thy will be done.

Jesus does not show fear there, he shows submission, absolute submission to the Father. And what is important for us to realize in that text there is if you read the other Gospels in harmony together, you'll notice that Jesus says, what shall I say?

Shall I say deliver me from this hour when it was for this hour that I've come into the world? So, Jesus is fully aware of what's going on and what he is facing is this cup. What does this cup mean? Take this cup away from me.

Well, the cup that is referred to there is the cup of God's wrath, the cup of his anger, which Jesus is going to bear upon himself as the atonement for his sinful sins. So, you have to read that in the context of his passion, that is his sufferings that he's going to endure, and you cannot read that apart from that context.

So, it's important to realize that it's not fear. At the end of the day, Jesus is saying, Father, not my will, but your will be done. If there's another way for me to suffer, then show it. I don't know if it's possible, but ultimately it's what you will, and according to the scriptures, Jesus was faithful and obedient to God to the very death.

First book of Peter, chapter 2, verse 17, orders Christians, show proper respect to everyone, love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king. So, Christians are to fear God, and Tony claims that he's assured of salvation, so that means that it's possible to be assured of your salvation and fear God at the same time.

And again, I'm just amazed by the inconsistency. When Tony's giving examples of the prophet's anxiety, like when a strong wind comes, or during the eclipse, he's appealing to the Hadith, but the biblical Hadith literature shows the prophet is extremely confident that he's going to paradise.

He said, I am the first one who will enter paradise. No doubt, I am the messenger of God. So, he's not allowing me to appeal to the Hadith, but he would say, well, the Hadith came 200 years later, but he's appealing to the very same Hadith to prove his point, and I find that to be inconsistent.

Could we get the next two questions for Bassam now, please, just to balance out the questions? For Bassam? If you could work it out amongst yourselves, please, so that it's more balanced out. This question is for Bassam.

At what precise point did Muhammad then become assured of salvation? Because you were willing to concede to an argument that there was a possibility he wasn't assured of salvation early on. So, at what point did he become assured?

And the question, as it relates, is what prompted that change? Because it certainly was not clear early on, but you would argue that it was clear later on. So, what was that point, and what prompted that change?