TiL- Esther 6

Christian Nationalism, Gilead Comparisons, and the Abortion Debate

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Tonight, we're going to continue in our walk through Esther. Tonight, we're going to be in Esther chapter 6. Looking forward to continue in Esther. But first, our current issue, today's current topic that we want to talk about today is just something I picked up on Twitter, which can generate a good conversation.

And so I'm going to pull up the screenshot. I'll leave it at just for a second. So we can have just a moment to read it and look at it. But this is from Twitter and Twitter had on there a video, a clip from MSNBC and it wasn't one of the news anchors.

It was one of the editorial type anchors where they, you know, do their opinions and have on guests or whatever. And they were talking about the Christianization, Christians trying to make America a theocracy where they're trying to take over the nation.

And this is the spawn from the overturning of Roe versus Wade. And so she had on guests, a lady from Kentucky and a lady from somewhere else. I can't recall, but supporting her position about how Christians are trying to take over America and tell everybody what to do.

And it was interesting how she used the, Dan, I don't know if you're familiar with the show or not, but she kept referring to Gilead that Christians are trying to make America Gilead like was on the Handmaid's Tale program.

America was called Gilead on that program. Are you familiar with that? Heard of it?

I've heard of the Handmaid's Tale. It seems like they're making a bit of a stretch there.

Oh my, it's a huge stretch. Yes.

But yeah, nobody said that people would think things all the way through.

So exactly. Well, and it's stretched intentionally. I think because I mean, they're trying to persuade people to oppose Christian values and oppose Christian principles and really what they're doing is they're promoting almost at least a violence.

And it's going to lead to violence because you muster up all these feelings inside people and create this opposition against Christians. And that's what this rhetoric is doing is really stirring up those emotions in people, which is it's going to lead to violence in some cases with people.

The comparison to Gilead, if you have any understanding of what Gilead was in that show, I mean, it's not even close to a good comparison.

But I kind of get where they're saying because I mean we do this kind of the same way. I think we do a better job of it. We'll pick out something like 1984 or Brave New World or something like that and say not that this is what this is, but this is in the same vein.

It's going to lead to something like that. The thing is when we look at Brave New World or 1984, we have real world examples of what happens if you continue on down that road. You have the old Soviet Union, places in South and Central America that have gone down the socialist communist pathway.

Then you have Handmaid's Tale, which when you look at the end at what they're saying this could turn into, what do they have to point to that will say, hey, here's an example of how this particular set of ideology is going to lead to this thing in this show.

But if you look at what the Bible and Christianity actually promotes, it doesn't promote a forced breeding of females. What it does promote is not murdering your children in the womb. So it's not like Christians want to create a breeding ground for people where women have no say in what they do with their own bodies.

We're saying that once you become pregnant, you've done your part. That's why rape allegations, rape is such a serious thing because that innocence, that autonomy has been ripped from someone. A crime has been perpetrated against them and it's terrible.

That's why we go so hard after rapists because that decision-making power where you should be able to have a child or not, in that moment, because we know what causes children, in that moment, somebody's taking that from you and that's against the Christian worldview.

Forcible impregnation is against the Christian worldview because we believe that children are a gift from God, not a product of one forcing themselves on someone else.

Equal Protection, Rape, and Rare Medical Exceptions

Right. I think you made some great points and I think that's key right there, what you were talking about because of the Handmaid's Tale, exactly what you're talking about, it's control and I think control is trying to, is where they are trying to make the connection, the control part.

And they're saying that in Gilead, in Handmaid's Tale, they controlled, or the men, the patriarchy, they controlled everything, every single aspect of the woman's life. And so that's what Christians are wanting to do to you now, women here in America, they want to control your body and tell you what to do.

And that's not the case. That's not biblical like Dan was saying. It's not biblical to force those things. What we're about is equal protection of the law. We're against murder. And that's where we're coming from, not control, but we're against murder.

And you were talking about the instances of rape. I overheard somebody listen to a video today and it was, you'll hear these somewhat debates where you'll have a speaker and maybe you'll have an audience member asking a question and or, I didn't get to see the video so I don't know the context of it, but I did hear it.

And so you had one person who was quote pro-life on the pro-life side, and you have somebody on the pro-choice side. And the pro-choice person was making the claim or giving this example for them to answer almost like a gotcha.

What do you do in this case? You know, if you're against abortion, what do you do in this case? How are you going to answer this question? And I listened to their claim, the example that they used for their question, and it was like, what do you do in the case where a 10-year-old is pregnant because of rape?

And I'm thinking, well, first of all, you are creating a very extreme case out of an example that rarely happens. It probably has happened before. In fact, there's one in the news where that happened.

Okay. It was an instance of.

Rape from a mother's boyfriend. It was an illegal immigrant. That's why they're leaving out half of the story there. They're trying to say that this is an instance where the young girl's life was at stake.

And so she had to flee Ohio to go to Indiana in order to get an abortion. But that's just not the case. Her mother went from Ohio to Indiana in order to not have to report her boyfriend for raping her daughter.

So really you have an instance not of people denying health care and trying to make sure that this girl's actually healthy and taken care of. But what you have is an instance where a woman fled the state that she was in in order to protect the pervert who raped her daughter.

When you know the whole story, it doesn't tug on the same heartstrings. Right. It's a ridiculous situation that should have never happened. Right. And I mean a 10-year-old body might not be able to handle a pregnancy.

So the doctors have to look at what do we do here? Obviously, we would say that you don't kill the child, but at the same time, someone that young, you have to watch everything closely because like I said, you don't kill the child in the case of the unborn or the 10-year-old.

Right. And that those type of situations are ridiculous and I say ridiculous because they should never happen. Right. And they're sad and they're tragic. And but no one should have to die just because they are in that situation.

Right. And.

Well, I'm glad that you knew that it was an example from real life. I had not heard that it was a real example that happened recently. You know, I was just categorizing it with many of the other examples that they try to use that like I said, they they're possible and as you say that they do happen, but a lot of these examples that they use are rare.

Like the instances where the mom's life is in danger or ectopic pregnancies. I don't think that they're you know, I think they're kind of rare and all these instances incest rare happens, but it's rare but still yet in all those cases just like Dan said both people are persons that we want equal protection under law for both.

Persons. Right. Yeah, and nobody is advocating for prosecuting someone for having a miscarriage. Sorry, what's getting a woman for having a miscarriage, right? That's not going to say someone because people are trying to make that argument now.

No one's trying to prosecute someone for having an ectopic pregnancy. And there there are almost almost zero situations in which someone has to abort in order to save a mother's life. Yeah. Now there are situations where maybe the child needs to be removed in which case you give the child a fighting chance.

You don't have to chop it up before you take the baby out. Also sad situation. It's not good, but the whole issue comes in with saying well, when is it okay to kill a child and it's not.

Not on purpose anyway, right? Oh, yeah, exactly. Exactly. And we kind of got off on the topic that I want to I wanted to take this to you. Yeah, it's not even close. But I mean, it's a good conversation.

I'm glad we talked about it. But streaming from streaming from that article from that news clip, of course on Twitter, you have comments and this person made a comment underneath that thread and I'm just going to read it to you and then we'll take it off.

This was a comment on that Twitter feed. It's gotten so it's gotten so I dread seeing overt Christians and these are the people she's calling overt Christians last Sunday. I saw a dad and two boys dressed in white shirts and ties coming out of a restaurant was obvious.

They had been to church in the a .m. Look like the families in 1950s image and I was surprised how it made me gag. Wow wearing white shirts and ties are.

Well being Christian. I can understand and making you making you gag a little bit. I mean, we just don't wear that kind of stuff anymore. It's not good fashion. But but it made her gag that a Christian was being a Christian outside of their home or outside of their church building.

Give me a break. Yeah, they dress on a certain way on a Sunday morning fine. But that's that's ridiculous. The the real issue here is that people don't want to be reminded of things that they don't like.

Yeah. She doesn't like Christianity for whatever reason. I don't know the lady. So seeing people saying hey, I'm Christian and I'm proud of it. It makes her stomach turn and then I mean really honestly makes sense.

The the gospel is foolishness to those to to to certain folks, but it's it's wonderful and glorious to those of us who are being saved. So it would should be it shouldn't be a surprise that somebody dresses up is going to offend somebody.

We get offended at but right but honestly it could have been a bunch of different reasons why it offended her. It may have been that she was a part of a Christian home growing up and saw hypocrites somebody who said hey you need to dress up.

We're going to give God our best and then throughout the week her parents just or whoever lived no sickening lives that maybe affected her negatively or maybe they were sinful that she thought saw it was nothing real and knows nothing substantive there.

So she saw that tradition of a hollow disgusting hypocrisy pass on to another generation and that made her say we really don't know the story behind right why or what so I don't know.

Well, what we what we can glean from this comment is that there is still this idea and in some folks mind that Christians for this example Christians dress up to go to church. That was that was her first assumption.

White shirt ties. They must have been in church. So that's that's really. I don't know. I don't know. There was a.

Meme of Mormons. It could have been regardless.

I mean, that's that's still in some people's mind that they associate, you know dressing up with going to church and you know, it could be praying before meal. Sure, you know, and they're like we talked about before the podcast tonight.

There's been a reaction from within the church over the years to to these things because to a degree from my experience from my observation, I think you know and some people I think have have had good motivation good a good heart toward you know toward that issue.

But hey buddy, how.

Are you? Good good. We're talking about dressing up for church. You want to talk with us for a little bit? No, you nervous. Sorry. How's your.

Turkey? How's your turkey? How's your turkey?

The one in the one over here or turkey? Yeah. How is he? Good. Well, that's good. All right. You want to bed? Give me a hug. Love you. See you tomorrow tonight. All right, man. But we.

Were talking about the swing and from my experience. I noticed it as I felt like it was kind of a rebellious attitude towards or from Christians. You can't tell us what to do. You're being legalistic.

So we're going to dress however we want to and like I said, I can't judge their hearts or there may have been some folks with good motivations about that. You know, some people said that we want to be welcoming to those who can't can't dress up or whatever.

There was good intentions in some places, but in some places it was a rebellious attitude. But what I think I want to glean from, you know, situations like this is that there there are things that we I think it's about watching our behavior watching what we do in public because there are still things that that people outside the church outside Christianity that observe and associate with Christianity is something that you said earlier was that these people maybe one of the reasons why she has a bad taste in her mouth is because she saw these people when she was younger dressing up a certain way because they were supposed to dress that way because they're Christians, but then they she saw them behave differently during the week.

So it gave her a bad taste in her mouth because she saw the hypocrisy and so that just you know, it should speak to us that however, we're going to dress. How are we going to live? How are we going to represent Christianity know that people are observing it and we should submit to Christ all throughout the week.

Maybe even find some of the stuff that's going to take them off and go ahead and do it harder. Yeah, sure. I mean not not in a hateful rebellious sort of way, but a way that shows the goodness of Christ, you know, I mean if it's something we're doing we're doing it doesn't matter.

It doesn't add any value or show who Christ is, you know, I mean, maybe we should just like not worry about it so much right, but some of those things where you know, if we're going to take somebody off for doing something good and maybe find out whatever that is and do it more because I mean if it's good then it's good.

What was it in the Romans was it 12? I think towards the end of the chapter. It says that you're supposed to do what is right and in the end it'll keep burning coals upon your enemy's head. Right, right.

So I mean it probably shouldn't be our primary motivation to take people off. Right, but I mean, there's a there's a lot of things where when you do something for the right motives you have added benefits to it.

I don't see why causing a situation where a conversation could happen to be a bad thing,.

Right? Well, yeah, that's right. Yeah, because.

I mean we don't want to do it just to take somebody off and that's kind of kind of bad taste. But if we can know get somebody asking us questions like hey man, why are you always praying before your meals?

It's kind of annoying. Oh, well, I pray before my meals because I know that God provided me the food that I have and I want to thank him for it. It's his earth his air. You're breathing and eating the same stuff.

You may want to praise him too. Well, the gospel itself we know is going to offend people and it shouldn't be it shouldn't be us and and how we how we speak it should. We should leave it up to the gospel because it does a sufficient job itself.

Like you said this foolishness of those who are perishing so it's going to do a sufficient job itself offending people because it says that they're sinners, right? And you know, we're going to offend people too.

If we're being obedient to the gospel and living it out like you're talking so they get examples that you gave, you know, we're going to offend people. We're going to annoy people because we love Christ and we're obeying the gospel.

Right?

Yeah. So in so when people say stuff like well, they're they're they're wearing this or they're wearing that or they're praying here or they're doing this or that fine be mad like I don't care but like well, why would we why would we see a world that is in rebellion against Christ and think that us submitting to Christ would do anything other than take them off.

I don't understand why we are trying so hard to please the world. Yeah. I mean like who cares the world is God's so I mean obviously we want to not offend needlessly was it Peter says if you suffer for if you're persecuted because you're doing right then they won't be able to say anything when judgment comes down or when facts are examined, but if you're persecuted or even thrown in jail for you know, being a jerk then you get what's coming to you.

So you shouldn't we should be bold. You just not care that whole you're going to drive people away. No, I'm not not if I'm not if I'm doing what's right because the gospel offends people and the only thing the way people are going to come to Christ is through the gospel.

Anyway, we're going to have to run the risk of people not liking us of ruining relationships causing trouble. All right being no talked about on Twitter. Oh, no half of people on Twitter talking about us are bots.

Anyway, we found that out when Elon Musk tried to buy it and he's like now I don't think I'm going to buy it because half of your people that you said are real or just bots exactly. So yeah, I don't know.

Well, I think the whole extra commandment that shall be nice just needs to get thrown out the window. It's ridiculous. Is that the 11th Godly who cares about being nice? Yeah, I mean to your wife. Yeah, be nice to your wife always be nice to your wife.

Exactly. But besides.

That well, I think I think we're the in this conversation where the rub has has always been for me is not exactly what you were talking about but in a different way not caring in a different way because they wanted to they wanted to use their freedom in Christ to to live however, they wanted to live and not care what this person said and not care what that person said when when we should be careful not to be a stumbling block.

It goes back to the offense of the gospel that we talked about. I think we're unnecessarily being an offense to the gospel when we have that rebellious attitude. I don't care what this these Christians say.

I don't care what these unbelievers say coming from a rebellious attitude so that I can exercise my supposed freedom in Christ and live. However, I want to live dress. However, I want to dress, you know, because I'm nobody can tell me what to do that.

That's where I've had the rub because we were image bearers and and when we when we're unnecessarily being stumbling blocks or we somehow in in in that behavior. We're tarnishing that image image of Christ.

Yeah, the was it Paul said should we keep on sending so that grace may abound said no we shouldn't because we have forgiveness of sins doesn't give us a license to go out there and do whatever we want to.

Yeah. So when we when we say that we can do whatever we want to we throw that in everybody's face all while calling them a bunch of hit of no dirty rotten sinners are going to hell. Yeah, I can see why that rubs people the wrong way.

It's just it's just wrong, right? Right? Yeah. Yeah, you can't you when that.

Happened in the church, you know, and and I experienced that and saw that and you folks had the young people had this attitude people had this attitude, you know, these buddy duds these legalists. They're trying to tell me what to do and and you intentionally oppose that in in that assembly, right?

The focus is on you and not on.

Christ anymore, right? Right because it was a Titus tells us that the older men should teach the younger men and older women should teach the young woman. So there's a disconnect there where the the older man and the older women are saying something that the younger people are just not on board with it's on the older folks to to understand.

Well, why are they not on board with this? You know, why are they not? Why is what we're saying going over their head? Why do they think this certain behavior is okay? No, is it that we are asking for something that doesn't have real spiritual merit?

Is it something that's not biblical that we're is there a standard that we're imposing? That's a that's something that maybe shouldn't be there. Maybe we've gone a step too far. You know, why are we doing this?

All right, because I mean a lot of times if you just I found this out if you just talk to folks before you get upset a lot of times most of the issue just goes away. Yeah, what happens a lot of times is is people will get upset before before they go and talk to somebody and then they generally if they may not talk to them.

So that's when you end up having that rebellious spirit, you know dress how you want to dress act how you want to act. We're going to do this that and other thing just to throw it in these other schmucks faces, right?

And yeah, that's that's off-putting.

To everyone. Exactly. Exactly. All right, brother. You ready to start in Esther? Let's do it. All right, Esther chapter 6 and let me let me give a little introduction a little spiel before we get started in the Esther chapter 6.

I think if you really take time to look at Esther chapter 6 along with the rest of the book, but as I was reading and listening and looking into Esther chapter 6, this is where what we understand to be the theme of Esther really comes to life when you begin to look at it and look underneath the surface of what's going on.

So we know that Esther is the main character and God used Esther to to save her people, but we also can see that almost just as much Mordecai was huge in saving God's people huge in that but then above I mean, this is where we we talk about God God speaking to us about his his provision his providence and his protection in Esther.

We can see all those things bubbling up and making themselves visible, especially here in Esther chapter 6. And we this is the thought that I had today Dan as I was reflecting on Esther 6 and our study in Esther.

We've gone to Esther because we were we were looking at prophecy and we were looking at eschatology and we we looked at Ezekiel and we looked at go back to 38 and 39 and we that's one of the places where you can then go to Esther.

But we learned about the the Battle of Gog and Magog and and the chief Prince not wrote Rosh is not Russia Rosh is chief and where you have a chief Prince where we saw it in chapter 5 again, but the chief Prince is mentioned over and over again here in Esther, but we see that prophecy in their future about the these armies that are going to come against and they're everywhere.

Did it give a number maybe 14? I can't remember the exact number. Do you remember? I can't remember but that I mean there was there was a number and it was a great number of nations that were going to come against Israel and and the the kingdom that had this great number of under under his rule here was Persia and and Xerxes Hattu Eris and and Haman used that his advantage when he sent out this decree to all the different dialects and different languages saying on this day every all the Jews in your town and and we're going to go go against them in Jerusalem.

But on this day, we're going to we're going to go and wipe out this whole nation. But where it took me and reflecting on God's Providence is protection and provision was that if you were a Jew if you were Jew that had made it because Ezra Nehemiah and Esther these are books that are after the end of the 70 year prophecy where they were in exile and God prophesied that they would return to Jerusalem when they were released and they will return to Jerusalem Nehemiah Ezra and Esther are books at that time period speaking of that event.

And if you had made it back to Jerusalem or if you were in another part of the kingdom. You probably were aware about this decree. Maybe you weren't aware at some point you may have seen a movement a movement of the armies something going on something fishy is going on.

But if you were if you weren't there if you weren't in this small circle, I mean even even people who lived in Susa probably had they didn't have access to the inner circle the inner going zone of the king.

You probably would have only got the bigger picture for some reason this kingdom represented by Haman is going against the Jews for some reason you would have got the bigger picture. So what why is Esther in the Old Testament God takes us in the inner courts where nobody else would have had access and God is showing us how he is providing protecting his Providence his provision for his people and where it took place.

If Esther hadn't been in Scripture, we would have been just one of those folks on the outskirts of the kingdom of Persia and only really had seen the big picture and in even really only a glimpse.

Of it true like most of world history like most.

World history. God takes us here into the inner courts because of Esther. Isn't that amazing? It's pretty cool. Yeah, that just really my heart swelled up with joy as I reflect on all that today about that's the reason for Esther.

Yes provision Providence protection seeing God's work in Esther, but God is taking us into a place where nobody gets to go to inner court where we see how he did it. It's to me was amazing. So let's start in chapter 6 and I'm going to I'm going to give Dan a chance to to talk and it gives some explanations from commentary on on six, but hopefully you guys will be able to see some of the things I was talking about.

So let me pull it up here on the screen. So we're not looking down. All right. So in verse 1 during that night the king could not sleep. So he gave an order to bring the book of records the Chronicles and they were read before the king.

So right before this in chapter 5 Haman was on cloud nine or and should have stayed there because he's the King's right-hand man second in command in charge of the whole kingdom and Esther the Queen has invited him to two banquets and nobody else just King and Haman but yet he cannot get over the fact that Mordecai will not honor him.

So his wife Zeresh. This is the end of chapter 5. So it gives him an idea. Why don't you just build some gallows and hang this dude and get him out of your life. So that's that's where we end up. Now the king couldn't sleep and he has the book of records the Chronicles brought to him to be read.

It was found out verse 2. It was found written that Mordecai had reported concerning Bithana and Teresh two of the king's eunuchs who were doorkeepers that they had sought to lay hands on King Ahasuerus.

The king said what honor or dignity has been bestowed on Mordecai for this. Then the king's servants who attended him said nothing has been done for him.

Well, that's kind of sad. It is sad. Yeah. Well a little bit ago remember was it chapter 2 Mordecai heard a plot against the king just being faithful good citizen said hey King somebody's trying to kill you.

They stopped the plot and they wrote it down and the king didn't do anything for him. So Mordecai never tried to call in a favor never tried to say hey you need to do this for me or that for me or throw me a little money or whatever.

He just kind of just sat back but it was written down and I don't know it kind of worked out for him. It's one of those things where God had him in the right place at the right time. So that way he could do something for the king and it ends up working out in his favor as we'll see in the next few verses and chapters.

Yeah, and.

That's one of the ways that you see God's God's working. He wasn't honored then but he's questioning it now at this opportune time. Like you said, we'll see any. Here's something else. I found interesting to you know, how a lot of people read read the Bible.

They they just open it up randomly and point their finger and oh, this is what God wants me to read today. I thought about that when when the king said bring me the book the book of records the Chronicles and read it to me because I can't sleep.

What's so interesting about that is this is four to five years later and you know, they're keeping records all the time and it just so happens that they read the story of Mordecai that happened four to.

Five years earlier. Yeah, you think about the king. I can't sleep. Come read about all the good stuff that I've done as king. Oh man, I believe if if I did that to my wife, hey, baby, I can't sleep. Can you can you read off my list of achievements one more time for me so I can go to bed.

Just tell me how good I am. All right. So I mean it makes sense here a little bit later. He's a kind of gets made a fool of him. He doesn't like it. Yeah, he leaves for a little bit. We'll get to that in the next few weeks or so.

All right starting.

At verse four. So the king said who is in the court now. Haman had just entered the outer court of the king's palace in order to speak to the king about hanging Mordecai on the gallows, which he had repaired for him.

The king's servant said to him behold Haman is standing in the court and the king said let him come in any comments on those.

Two verses. Esther is fascinating to me. Just the interpersonal dynamics the stuff that people must have been going through this guy, you know. Centuries of hatred running through his veins gallows built.

Hey King. Let me go kill this guy. He's been nothing but trouble and that night King. Here's it. This dude saved his life. The Hamans coming in there. I the king, you know, you had me at the bank with him and his wife the Queen.

No, I am somebody let me get this thing that I want everything will be right in the world. Little did he know it wasn't going to go the way that he had planned.

You you've got two locomotives headed right towards each other and the hood ornament on both of them are Mordecai. Mordecai is on the mind of King and Mordecai is on the mind of Haman. Yeah for different reasons.

Yep. Yep. Oh, yeah, I find that fascinating as well. Verse verse 6. So Haman came in and the king said to him was to be done for the man whom the king desires to honor and Haman said to himself whom with the king desire to honor more than me.

Then Haman said to the king for the man whom the king desires to honor. Let them bring a royal robe, which the king has worn game worn Jersey right there and the horse on which the king has ridden and on whose head a royal crown has been placed and let the robe and the horse be handed over to the one of the king's most noble princes and let them array the man whom the king desires to honor and leave him on horseback through the city square and proclaim before him thus it shall be done to the man whom the king.

Desires to honor. Oh man. So he walks in. Hey, what do you need King? I want to honor somebody. What should I do for the person who needs to be honored? He's like, well, let me tell you exactly what I would like.

I would like to be paraded around in the king's clothes. And the finest of the fun having everybody say this is what the king does to the somebody who is happy with if the king's pleased with me. I am somebody I have made it take that Jews who tried to kill me.

I'm on top now. Oh man, read the next verse. It's got to be it's good. It's a blow. It's got to get him right.

Right there. I mean just imagine at this point in his mind. I mean he's thinking it's him. Oh,.

You're 100 hook line and sinker. Yeah, and at.

This point in his mind, he he's he's already been to one banquet. He's coming to the king to talk about killing Haman and then the king brings this up. Oh, I'm going to get paraded around town in a robe and a crown and announced to the to the crowd to the whole city.