The March of the Totalitarians, BHI Craziness, Judging From Afar Rebuked

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:32

Greetings, welcome to The Dividing Line. Well, you can see the Play -Doh really easily there, can't you? Yeah, okay.

00:39

Strange color. Anyways, welcome to The Dividing Line. It's Monday, July 4th, and we're sort of rushing here.

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Yeah, don't forget to announce that this broadcast is taking place in the Palatial Broadcast Studios.

00:54

Yeah, Palatial Broadcast Studios, where you have to... we had to peel the ceiling tiles off the walls, yeah.

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But, you know, this ain't our crib, I guess, or something, I don't know.

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Anyway, yeah, right, I'm trying to bring up the... it's pretty wise to bring up the video, make sure that, you know, the car is still gonna be there when

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I get back and stuff like that. Sort of riding around like chickens with their heads cut off. I was gonna do an hour and a half today, just found out we've only got an hour to do this, so I'm gonna have to cram everything in here and maybe be a little bit faster and briefer than I thought

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I was gonna be. But, last program for me in studio until, like, probably the 26th of July.

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So, one, two, yeah, three weeks in a day, I would say, is about... Lord willing, next time we'll be...

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I will be in studio. We're gonna try to do stuff via Skype. If my schedule is such,

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I may have to do some ScreenFlow stuff. I'm just gonna do what I can, and Rich will probably end up doing some stuff.

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Who knows? Have you talked to Samson? Had dinner with him night before last or night before last?

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Been kind of waiting to see how things turn out with what Skype stuff we can do with you.

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Because, I mean, if we can knock out two shows a week remotely... We'll see what we can do. We'll see what we can do.

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That's gonna be a little bit tough, but we'll see what we can do. Anyway, a bunch of things to get to.

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I have had very little time to comment on developments that have taken place, and I'm gonna have to be brief on this, but I do want to mention them.

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Developments in culture, because we've been doing other topics of late. Oh, and I brought these in here.

02:49

I just wanted to thank the Taylor family. They came by the church week before last, and I don't know if you saw this, but they brought me an ink stamp, and it's for use in books and stuff.

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It's the type of thing like you do deposit slips and stuff like that, but this is for use in books and stuff.

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I know a pastor who has this. I probably got the idea, but this is what it says.

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It says, heretical garbage for research purposes only, which would be about half my library, actually, when you think about it.

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I'm not sure that the little ink pad could survive my library, but yeah, heretical garbage for research purposes only.

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I guess it's sort of for warning, folks. You need a digital version for your Kindle stuff, too.

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Yeah, I'm not sure how that would work, actually, come to think of it, but anyway, cultural stuff.

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Well, travel stuff. I'm heading up to Colorado. I will be speaking in New Mexico next week,

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Salt Lake over the following weekend. We've got the dialogue with Alma Alred on Mormonism.

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We've got the dialogue with an imam on Islam, both same topic, who is

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Jesus. That's going to be interesting to have the same topic going on. Speaking there at the

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OPC out in Magna, and so friends up in the Salt Lake area, looking forward to seeing you in the

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Santa Fe and Albuquerque areas, looking forward to seeing you. Then back up to Colorado, and I'll be speaking at the

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PC app there. I just realized I haven't responded to their email. Sorry about that, Alan.

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Just send me some stuff you want to talk about. We'll figure it out from there. I'm behind on stuff.

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That happens when you've got a million details going on, and you got yourself in the middle of a conflict that you never expected to get yourself involved in the process.

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So, cultural stuff. Folks, I know most of you have read the foundational trilogy by Francis Schaeffer.

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I'm rereading it just for my own benefit. I read them back in the 90s. Escape from Reason, he is there, and he is a sign of the

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God who is there. May I recommend them yet once again for a rather cerebral review of why we see our culture absolutely flying apart?

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The seams, all the thread has been cut out of the seams. If you throw a baseball and you've cut all the threads out of the seams, when that baseball gets hit, it's just simply going to explode.

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It's going to fall apart because it's not held together by anything that makes sense anymore.

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What we're seeing, and it's because we've not experienced it in the

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United States. They have experienced it elsewhere, and that's why a lot of people who've come to the

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United States from other nations are going, what are you people doing? But no one's listening to them, is not a march, but now a run toward totalitarianism.

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That's what we've got going on, is a run toward totalitarianism. And people don't know what totalitarianism is, but a totalitarian totality, the government controls the entire expression of human life.

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And so what you think, what you believe, how you speak, how you dress, how you act, how you eat, the government controls it all.

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That's what this nation is moving toward, and it's moving toward it at an incredible speed.

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And if you want to see this happening, go to California. Look at the totalitarians, the socialist, secularist totalitarians who are in charge in Sacramento.

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We used to call them nutcases, but now they're in charge, and they have willing allies in the young people of this nation who want to be ruled.

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They want the government to tell them everything. Now, they don't realize what that's going to look like yet.

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It's too late before you find out, but that's what's coming. And these folks, well, the one article,

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Christian Mingle Must Include Gays Judge Rules. Did you see this?

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Just a couple days ago, ChristianMingle .com, an online platform for single Christians seeking relationships, must accommodate gay users, a

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California judge ruled. What we need to understand is, none of the founding fathers ever had the idea that the judiciary would function the way it functions now.

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These people are little gods in robes, at least they think they are. They're an oligarchy, and they rule over all the rest of us.

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They know what's best for all the rest of us. There's no longer a meaningful limit on their power.

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And so, two gay men in California brought a lawsuit against Christian Mingle's parent company, Spark Network, which also administers

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CatholicMingle .com, AdventistSinglesConnection .com, BlackSingles .com, and a mobile application, CrossPaths.

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They allege the site's failure to accommodate gay users violated the Unruh Civil Rights Act, a state anti -discrimination law.

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Christian Mingle only includes man -seeking woman and woman -seeking man options for users, but does not include alternatives for users seeking members of the same sex.

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Well, how about man -seeking German Shepherd? Is that next? It better be, logically. Man -seeking tree.

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It's all going to have to be there eventually, because this worldview that has taken over, that these people are forcing upon us, has no foundation.

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That's what's coming. That's what's coming. These people are totalitarians. There is no such thing as religious liberty.

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There is no such thing as freedom of thought. You must think like them, act like them. They will tell you everything.

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These are totalitarians, and they're all around us. And most Americans are just sitting around going, well, you know, as long as it doesn't affect me.

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Well, you don't seem to understand. That you may go along with the majority a long ways, but you need to realize those bumper stickers that say the bigger the government, the smaller the citizen, are absolutely true.

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And once you have a government that controls everything, you are nothing. There is no such thing as individual liberty.

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There's no such thing as individual responsibility. You are whatever the government says you are.

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And it was only a few stinking decades ago that this kind of stuff existed behind the

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Iron Curtain. And this nation and its leaders were instrumental in bringing that curtain down.

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And funny, pretty much since that time, we've been running toward putting it back up, except we're on the inside of it.

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We've forgotten history. And you join this together with the

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Supreme Court not even taking the case. I mean, the

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Supreme Court's done, folks. It doesn't matter who is elected. The Supreme Court is finished. It's done.

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And since that is now the means of determining the society in which we live, as far as I can see, the constitutional republic form of government in the

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United States is finished. It's done. And this is July 4th that I'm saying this on, but I said this last year.

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I reposted something I wrote last year on Facebook. The Constitution is meaningless.

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If the words in it don't mean what the author's intended, it's meaningless. And now that the

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Supreme Court is just filled with ideologues who could care less what the

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Constitution is, it's done. I don't know what kind of government's gonna take its place.

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But, you know, I posted a thing with Benjamin Franklin saying, so, a republic, if you can keep it.

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And there's a picture of Trump and Clinton. And then Franklin's saying,

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I'll take that as a no. It was perfect. Perfect. I don't know who made it, but it was perfectly done.

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I think libertarians made it. It was perfectly done. Neither one of them, in my humble opinion, is capable of maintaining a republic.

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Neither one of them. And I personally think this is gonna be one of the most lopsided elections in American history. I really do.

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I think Dukakis will have done better than one of the two people in this particular election. Anyway, so it's coming, folks.

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And these folks don't care about religious liberty. They will banish it faster than, and all under the idea of bigotry, hate laws, all the rest of this stuff.

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That which is evil will be called good, and that which is good will be called evil. And that's where we're gonna be. And we've got choices to make.

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Do you stay and be a prophetic voice? Or where do you go? I mean, leaving is a biblical possibility.

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I mean, Jesus said, flee in the mountains. They persecute you here, flee in the mountains. Fleeing is not something that's wrong, biblically.

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But where do you go? Almost every part of the West, this is the issue that you're facing.

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I don't know. All I know is this is coming so fast, and I don't want to use movie titles, but fast and furious.

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And these people are being, they are furious. They are, God is just removing his hand of restraint, and we are seeing how people hate the gospel, and they hate

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God's law, and they just, they're self -destructive. I mean, all these behaviors are self -destructive behaviors.

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I suppose we could just hunker down and survive it because, I mean, the way these people are going, they ain't gonna be having any kids.

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But of course, they're gonna take ours. That's the whole thing. They don't want to have to go through that messiness themselves.

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They'll just take ours. And that's what they want to do. No two ways about it.

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So, what we're watching, if you, that's why I say, you know,

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I've recommended books, non -Christian books, that are almost prophetic. It was last summer, while I was doing the drive

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I'm gonna be doing for the next few weeks, it was last summer that I listened to Brave New World. Again, I had read it back in high school.

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Everybody back in high school had to read Brave New World back when I was young. And 1984,

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I recommend those to people because they are such graphic prophecies of what we're seeing being fulfilled right now.

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Even though I had a millennial on Twitter go, I read it. I don't see any parallel.

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I'm just sort of like, okay, well, there's a public education system for you.

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But other books, and I have them in the other room, but I think

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Crossway owns Schaefer's stuff, if I recall correctly. And they have a five volume multi, it looks like a rainbow flag, unfortunately.

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I mean, I love the rainbow, but it's been stolen too. Just like Eucharist has been stolen from us. But five volume hardback of Schaefer's works.

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And the first volume contains well, no, no, no, no, no, no.

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One of them that you need is at a later, the Christian Manifesto is in one of the later volumes. But if I recall correctly, that first volume is the one that has the

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God who is there, escape from reason, and he is there and he is not silent. You can get them obviously in the singles, but they're available.

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And if I recall correctly, there's also a hardback of those books, the three of them together, that I think

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I've seen. I'm not 100 % certain on that. Anyway, if you want to read some good, meaningful

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Christian stuff, that's going to help you to understand the fundamental reasons.

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Dated? Well, yeah. I mean, if you wanted more up to date examples and stuff, sure.

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But if you want a foundation to be able to interpret this stuff, I highly, highly recommend them to you.

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Anything has to be read with discernment, obviously, but good stuff, good stuff.

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And at least help you to understand what we see around us and why once you abandon the

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Christian worldview that made sense to our laws, our ethics, our morality, science, art, everything.

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Once you abandon that, you got nothing to put in its place. It's up to every single individual.

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It's just all a bunch of particulars. There's no unifying principle. And it all just like that baseball where you snip out all the threads and then you throw it toward that batter.

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He ain't going to get a home run with it. It's just going to explode when he hits it because there's nothing to hold it all together once that impact takes place.

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And that's what's happening around us. The explosion of a culture that had been blessed and is now being cursed.

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And that's what's going on. That's what's going on. So if you go on YouTube right now,

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Alfonso says, don't go to Mexico. I'm not thinking about going to Mexico. Sorry. If someone has some serious suggestions where liberty might plant itself,

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I'd be interested. I think the one word is Belize.

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You know, that's the one word I keep hearing too. Belize. We may need to look into a church planting mission.

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Then again, we may find ourselves down there in a corner and the rest of the world now coming at us, you know, because that could be the last outpost.

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I know. It is an amazing thing. Most people just want to stick their fingers in their ears and go, oh, it's all going to be fine.

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Trump will save us. Okay. If you

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Google, if you just go to YouTube and look me up these days, a lot more videos about me than there used to be.

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It's been less than two weeks. It's been less than two weeks since I ventured into the

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Black Hebrew Israelite arena. I did so for the transparently obvious reason that I had listened to a dialogue, including

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Vocab Malone, and the man who was lecturing him in a rather condescending fashion had made statements that I know historically and biblically are utterly indefensible.

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Utterly indefensible. And so I just put out on social media,

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I'd like to get in touch and would like to talk about this. And that led to that first conversation 12 days ago with Elder Akah of the

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GOCC. Well, that got a lot of attention, but then having vocab on the next week and then the next day doing the debate.

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Wow. And I'm just looking here on YouTube.

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Some of these are people reposting stuff that I've posted. And you know what? I don't care.

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To be honest with you, right now, what I'm encouraged by is the little bit that we've done.

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This is a little bit. The little bit we've done is getting all over the place to all of the

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BHI groups. And what's amazing is even when they attack me, they include what

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I'm saying. And so you got this up?

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Right. It's a green screen at the start. Now, I'll be honest with you. I don't honestly remember if there's any profanity in this.

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We don't have a dump. And we don't have a bleep button. There's no time delay here.

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So get the kids out of the room. Yeah. I'm just warning you. But I'll only play the beginning and then we start.

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But this is what actually I have to rejoice in, despite the fact, I mean, the vitriolic, visceral, racist hatred being expressed toward me.

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Never experienced anything like it in my life. I knew there were people who live this way, but I really haven't had much interaction with them.

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And, you know, when some people tell me that there's no such thing as black racism, I just want to go, really?

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What rock do you live under? Wow. I just these folks are incredible.

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They really, really are incredible. And it's just sad to think about what their lives are like.

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I mean, to see the conjunction of visceral hatred based upon race with religion, the result is the ugliest thing you could ever have.

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It's one thing to have a secular racist, you know, who is just racist because they're racist.

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But the contradiction of starting off, well, praises belong to God, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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And quoting from the book of Proverbs and the next word, you're dropping F -bombs and whitey and cracker and all the rest of this stuff.

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I mean, they've obviously never read the book of James. You know, out of the same mouth, you bless

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God and you curse men. This brethren should not be. For them, it's this brethren is the way we are.

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Says a lot to me. It's utter refutation. I mean, you can't take those claims seriously when someone is just so obviously hypocritical in the way they behave.

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But it's, it really shows how ugly it is when you join religion and racism.

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And that's happened in the past. Every racial group in the world has experienced it.

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Every single one. Don't close your eyes to the reality that every single racial group in the world has at some time in their history experienced that at the hands of another.

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That's just the fact. They don't accept it, but they don't accept a lot of things about history.

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So anyways, this is, this is called G -O -C -C -Alpha and Omega Ministry D -A -B -A -T -E.

22:58

That's a dabate instead of a debate. It's a dabate. Like we got the apocrypher and things like that.

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So we've got the dabate here, but at least it starts. I mean, it's edited, but it's not edited necessarily to remove the important content.

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So here's, here we go. And so that is why modern translations, if, if your goal is to actually know what the inspired writers wrote, and they didn't write in King James English, nothing that was said from the

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Psalter or anything else had anything to do with King James Bible at all, because the King James Bible did not exist until 1611.

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As to the apocrypha, the translators of the King James version did not believe that the apocrypha was canonical.

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It was placed between the Testaments, not in the Tanakh. It was not included in the text itself of the, what we would call the

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Old Testament. The apocryphal works were never accepted by the Jewish people, which is a fascinating thing.

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I don't know why those who claim to be Israelites today would accept books that the ancient

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Israelites never accepted as scripture. And so when you put all this together, and then you, then you join it with assertions such as that King James was a black man, when the reality to, to anyone who looks at history, we know who his, his parents and his grandparents were, and they were very, very, very white

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British people. The Bible as a whole, not just taking portions of it, but the Bible as a whole is the revelation that the triune

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God is glorifying himself and the salvation of a particular people. And those people are derived from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation.

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It is the negation of the work of Jesus Christ. It is the negation of the New Testament to ever say anyone that those people are determined on the basis of skin color, genetics, or anything else of Jews and Gentiles, of Jews and Gentiles.

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Oh, okay. So, so there you go. And I do recall that they do, there is profanity here.

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So we unfortunately aren't going there. But Hey, you know what?

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There's a whole audience of people there that would never have heard what I just said, uh, if it weren't being included in this stuff.

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So are we hearing about people have already left this movement because of what we've done?

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You better believe we are. So, uh, do I like the,

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I mean, you just look at the comments on justice. One, you look at the comments, just as one, wow.

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Uh, you know, this, this cracker needs to be capped off and killed. And, you know, all the rest, I just, you know, death threats galore in the comments and stuff.

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Um, is that enjoyable? No, not really. But just think of the, you know, the people

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I'm thinking about are not, are not these arrogant, ignorant people that just have to scream and yell and demonstrate their ignorance by their inability to follow argument stuff.

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They're not, they're not the ones I'm concerned about. The ones I'm concerned about are the people who have fallen under their influence that think this stuff is true.

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And then when they find out the stuff isn't true, they have ears to hear. Those are the ones that I'm concerned about.

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I'm wondering when they're going to figure out, you know, it's not a good idea that we actually repeat this stuff to folks because this, you know, people, you know, then might not, you know, continue to follow us.

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Um, there's another one here. What? While you're saying that, I was going to mention that last week, uh, one of our channel rats brought to my attention that one of the shows that we did had been basically redistributed on one of these guys'

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YouTube channel. It was getting a lot of hits. And of course they do this so that they can have the, uh, comments going on and the comments are vile and they're doing exactly what you're talking about, but the entire show was posted.

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And I'm thinking to myself, you know, in the 1970s, if the

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United, if the, if we could have had that kind of exposure into the

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Soviet Union, while all the KGB guys are sitting there just blasting it right and left, we'd be dancing like crazy going, we got the gospel behind the iron curtain.

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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I rejoice that's happening. Um, but I'm, I'm, I'm honored that I've, I've now earned my own trailer.

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Uh, I'm, I'm sending you, you're, you're going to have to, cause it's the full screen. You have to play with it here. You're playing with it, but there is, there is a trailer.

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Um, the roast of James White live July 4th. So I guess sometime today, uh, the

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Sakari guys, cause I did, I, uh, day before yesterday, I sat down and I played that whole

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Google Hangout thing they did, uh, right after the, uh, debate. And I just went through stuff and I'm just pointing out, you know, the contradictions, the, the, how many times they contradict themselves, how inconsistent they were, you know, factual errors, you know, all that kind of stuff.

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And so I guess sometime today, maybe they already have, I don't know. Uh, but sometime today they're, they're going to do now.

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Roasts are normally nice things, you know, the, the, uh, you know, what, what, what was the, um, uh, the name of that celebrity roast thing?

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Dean Martin, Dean Martin. Yeah. Uh, David on Twitter said, is this going to be like the old Dean Martin celebrity roast?

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Uh, no, I don't think so. Something, something tells me it's going to be a little different than that, but they actually put out a trailer for an upcoming roast.

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You got it? Uh, close enough. Okay. Here's, here's, here's the trailer for the, uh, the upcoming roast.

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The roast of James White. Put some respect. I guess we can't say respect.

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You need to change the English language. Ooh, that's me.

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It looks like they've got fire in front of me. Oh, I wonder why. Oh, and then we got to go back to slavery stuff.

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None of these people have ever been enslaved of course, but it's your narrative.

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Oh, I see. Then I guess that's a thing with, uh, Michael Jordan's face is supposed to be some type of a joke or something.

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Put Michael Jordan's face on somebody. And that's supposed to, cause they did that to Elder Rakoff too. Oh, and there's, there's the horns.

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There you go. There's my, there's my own personal trailer. Uh, so there, there, there you go. Um, wow.

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Who knew? Who knew? Now, one thing I'm going to do real quick, cause

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I do need, oh, already out of time. Um, the next, uh, section of sermons

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I'm doing in the holiness code thing where I've been going through Leviticus and Deuteronomy, um, is the blessings and cursings section.

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And so as part of that, that Deuteronomy 28 text, which is so, uh, absolutely central to their, you know, taken to Egypt and ships thing.

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Uh, one of the things I want to do either via Skype on one of the dividing lines or just as a screen flow or something over the next couple of weeks.

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And when I have opportunity, I'm going to be traveling, but I have opportunity, um, is to really address that text and, and to do so fully because, you know, there was a video that was posted about some guy in Pittsburgh on the street preaching against me over the weekend.

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And, and, uh, you could never unpack this and you can never go through that. And it's all, it's like, really, have you ever bothered to look to see if maybe

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I have? No, of course not. You know, it's, uh, it's, it's really hard to take some of the rhetoric, uh, seriously, but, uh, they, they definitely, they definitely, uh, take it very, very seriously.

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All right. So pray for us, uh, for wisdom, protection, safety, um, and just pray as, as vocab.

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And, and I, um, you know, as, as this information gets out there, you know,

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I want to, obviously one of the things we need to do is to put together a webpage that just has links to all this material so that people can hear the other side and, um, just the contrast,

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I think, just the contrast of the attitude and the approach and hopefully the seriousness will be enough to have a real, make a real impact.

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At least that's, that's my hope. So anyway, um, yeah, the two minutes hate, yeah,

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Scott McLaren on, on, on Twitter, the two minutes hate. If you've not read 1984, you don't, you don't get these things, but you need to read 1984.

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So you can understand the two minutes hate. Cause that's, that's exactly what it is that I've become the guy that's, uh, that's is put up on the, on the screen.

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Yeah. Uh, Dr. O as Emanuel Goldstein, that's Robert Warren. Yeah. You both, you both nailed the exact same thing.

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And again, if you haven't read 1984, then you don't know what I'm talking about, but, uh, that's, that's what it is.

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Uh, very, very good parallel there. Anyway. All right. Only got a certain amount of time here and need to get to this.

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Cause I said that I was going to be doing this. Um, over the weekend, I listened to the polemics report, uh, from he who judges from afar,

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JD Hall, Pastor JD Hall. And I call him who judges from afar because that's what he's doing. Uh, rather than having firsthand information, uh, he's making judgments, not upon theological issues, but upon the characters of individuals.

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And one of the problems is trying to judge the character of individuals from a distance. Um, that's when you fall into, into, into error.

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And this is where JD should be extremely sensitive, but he's not because that's exactly what happened to him. And I've defended him in the past on this very issue.

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He was vociferously attacked and his character attacked, uh, based upon people who had partial information and we're judging from afar.

33:48

And that's why I've named him. He, who judges from afar, because of all the people in the world, he should be the last one doing the very thing that he's doing.

33:54

And he's blind to it, completely blind to it. Just doesn't see it. And what it's about was a

34:02

Christian news article. Now here's the background. And I've said to Michael Mikovitch, who is the publisher, if you'd like me to put out all the emails you and I have had, um, maybe the conversation between you and Jeff Durbin before ReformCon, maybe it needs to all be out there because, because JD is pretending like there's hidden stuff and they've got the real facts.

34:26

And JD does that a lot. Uh, we need to put it out there. One side has been transparent on this. One side has been okay.

34:33

A couple of corrections. I assume that Michael Mikovitch wrote the article because when he contacted me before ReformCon, um, he identified himself as publisher.

34:43

Well, the problem was the article that was published had no byline. It said editor.

34:50

Well, I made the inappropriate or inaccurate, uh, assumption, um, that they were one the same.

34:59

Well, actually while he assigned the topic, someone else wrote the article and then he provided the title.

35:05

Okay. So there's a correction. Uh, he claims he is not on an abstinence campaign.

35:13

Okay. If you want to claim that, uh, once again, uh, conversations that have been had in the past, um, and some other things might need to bring those things forward, whatever it might be.

35:25

Um, there is very clearly in a conversation that I had not seen,

35:31

I was not aware of the fact that before ReformCon, which was what, June 4th, 5th, somewhere, basically one month ago, right?

35:41

Exactly about one month ago before ReformCon, uh, Christian News contacted me and they want to do an interview as to why a respectable theologian would go to something like this.

35:52

It was very clear to me from the beginning, even from the brief thing that Rich forwarded to me from the contact link that this was somebody who has an agenda.

36:00

This is not a reporter, uh, wanting to do, uh, journalism.

36:06

This is somebody who has an agenda immediately set off red alarm bells. I contacted Jeff and he said, yeah, we've, you know, we've had some contact in the past.

36:13

Uh, uh, Marcus Pittman has had contact with him in the past, et cetera, et cetera. And so I, I declined the interview.

36:19

I said, if you'd like to talk about, well, I asked him, I said, what do you want to talk about? And he immediately went to, uh, the fact that the

36:26

ReformPub was going to be there, uh, Les Landfair was going to be there, uh, and there is going to be something about beer.

36:34

Okay. Well, if the ReformPub is going to be there, that's probably going to happen. And I was like, so you don't want to talk about what

36:42

I'm going to be doing there, but you want to talk about something else. Um, it sounds like you're, and I think they were the, he was the one who used the term tone, as I recall, initially.

36:53

And so I was like, look, if you want to talk to me about my topics on hyper -Calvinism and Hoopah Calvinism and stuff like that, glad to talk to you.

37:01

I'll try, I'll try to find the time. If what you want to talk about is this stuff that I feel like is, uh, you know, an attack, um,

37:08

I have no interest in assisting you with that whatsoever. Well, you know, JD picked that up and said, yeah, I'm sure he didn't want to get interviewed about that.

37:15

Again, cheap shots. JD knows that he does these things. He claims in this Plemics report that he's tone deaf, that he cannot discern tone.

37:25

JD, come on, you know, you can, you do it all the time. You do it all the time.

37:31

You do it purposely all the time, but come on. That was, that was maybe that was in the humor section. Maybe it was in the,

37:36

I'm joking with you all section. But anyway, so I wondered what was going to come of all this and I hadn't seen anything.

37:45

I, it's not like I follow Christian news or anything like that, but um, I hadn't seen anything.

37:50

And so then when this article comes out, uh, what they do is no one actually went to a poly

37:59

GIA, no one actually interviewed anybody. Uh, it was really interesting. Jeff sent me about 20 screenshots of an extended conversation that he had with the publisher of Christian news.

38:11

Here's my phone number, uh, responding to everything. He would not even in those screenshots in that conversation, call

38:20

Jeff a Christian. I don't know if you're, I don't know if you're a brother. You might not be. I don't know.

38:26

I can't call you that, you know? And Jeff's going, brother, if you want to, if you've got something against me, let's talk. That's one side transparent.

38:33

The other side, I don't know. I don't know if you're a Christian. You know, I've just got, you know, these things you're doing is just, Ooh. So, um,

38:40

I, you know, once the article came out, uh, there were just so many factual problems with it.

38:48

First of all. And of course, JD has just run with what Christian news set. It is so slanted.

38:57

It is yellow journalism. And he, he, he complains. He didn't say he didn't say me it's yellow journalism.

39:03

It is a hit piece. It has a particular agenda. It makes no pretense to fairness.

39:09

Where's the interview with Jeff Durbin. Hmm. Where's the interview with anybody who was there? Where's the accuracy in representing what was, is actually being done with the quiet church plant.

39:19

It's not there. And you know, it, I call that yellow journalism. It's a hit piece, nothing but a hit piece.

39:25

Okay. Now let's put some other facts on the table. Um, there was, there is a conflation going on between one thing that was offered again, as a fundraiser at reform con and something that took place weeks later that was not advertised.

39:51

There was a tattoo artist who goes to the church who wants to go to Kauai and what's happening.

39:58

And the sad thing is my daughter wrote about all this. Everybody in the church is going, well, what can

40:04

I do? And so kids are going out and they're doing bake sales and, and they had tables out at reform con where you could buy stuff.

40:12

And, and what's all of it for to raise funds for the church plant. You've got people in this church that are pulling up roots to move, try to start businesses, not just looking to get jobs, but start businesses in this area.

40:32

So they can be the foundation of this church plant in this area.

40:38

I was actually going to pull up the, um, uh, video and I forgot, I'm sorry.

40:43

I, I, I, I leave very early tomorrow morning, about a million things going on in my mind. I was going to pull it up and play it for you.

40:49

We probably wouldn't have time now anyways, but there's a great video. Go, go Google it. Uh, where, um, cause they played it reform con where Jeff and the folks there,

41:00

Jeff and Luke and everybody in the leadership explains what they found in Kauai and what they're trying to do and how they're trying to do it right.

41:10

And, uh, you know, uh, really do a church plant thing, not where you just send somebody in for a little while and try to get some local people to do this, that, or the other thing, and not really leave it with a foundation, but really try to do it right.

41:22

And so everybody in the church is doing everything they can. And here's a guy and he lets a few people know, uh,

41:33

Hey, I'd be willing to do this. There was no advertising. There wasn't like people walking down the streets going,

41:39

Hey, come to our church. We're a tattoo parlor now or something like that. And that was three weeks separate or two weeks separate from reform con.

41:48

If you read anything J .D. Hall is saying, anything Christian news saying you would think there are people stand around, uh, going out and trying to get people in to drink beer and get tattoos.

41:59

That's what, that's what, and, and what's sad is you watch this Christian news puts it out.

42:05

And now all these other sources are grabbing it and putting their own twist on it.

42:10

And it's all based upon looking at Marcus Pittman's Facebook page and videos he put up.

42:17

That's it. No interviews with the leadership, nothing about everything else that's going on.

42:22

Nothing about the theology of the church, nothing about, and then what you do is you take that and then you make accusation and,

42:31

Oh, I cannot believe I did not do this. I was going to cue this up. I apologize, uh, Russian too much this morning.

42:37

I apologize. I was going to cue this up. I wanted to be able to quote him directly. Drat it all. And I don't think

42:44

I have it in Dropbox. Let me look real quick, real quick here. Uh, no,

42:51

I don't have in Dropbox. I have it on my home unit. Drat. I was going to, I was going to let

42:56

JD say it for himself. So I'm going to have to fundamentally, the accusation is being made now.

43:03

Now JD will, during, there were many things that he said in this Plymouth report. And I just found out 10 minutes before I sat down to his program, that he's put out a response to what

43:13

Summer and I wrote. And I only had the only, the only thing I've been able to see of it is that they can't get her last name, right?

43:21

It's not Finch. It's Pinch. Um, anyway, uh, he's got a chuckle at some of this stuff.

43:31

There was a bunch of stuff that JD said that I completely agreed with. I was very interested in his discussion of tattoos.

43:37

Uh, it was very interesting that he himself said, I don't think we can go to Leviticus 19 -28. He has an interesting take.

43:43

It is a quite possible take in regards to a ritualistic cutting. Um, there were, there were some interesting things he said there.

43:51

His discussion of your theology of the body. Very interesting. You know, people have asked, well, are you going to have a tattoo in the resurrection?

43:57

Well, you know, if it's sinful, I won't. If it's not, maybe I will. Don't know. And I really don't think once we get there, we're going to be thinking about that personally.

44:04

But no, it was an interesting conversation. When he got into the specifics, he had to admit,

44:10

Hey, if you want to have a drink in the privacy room, as long as you're not trying to get other people to do that, I don't have any problem with it at all. You know,

44:15

I realized he realizes you cannot say this is sin. And he says, if you're going to say something to sin, you better be very, very careful.

44:21

So the one JD Hall says, well, I can't say it's sin. I don't think it's wise, but I can't say it's that's the one

44:27

JD Hall. That's the JD Hall I know. That's the JD Hall I've defended. That's the JD Hall who is my brother in Christ.

44:34

I think he's completely wrong on this stuff. And he is someday going to have to apologize thoroughly to Jeff Durbin if he could ever get to know him well enough to realize that he is a wonderful brother in Christ.

44:45

Okay. But here's the issue. That's not what he's, you know, when you press him,

44:52

I have to be very careful and I have to talk about this and I have to talk about that. The problem is his articles and what he says at the very beginning of that program within the first few minutes of that program is a direct assertion of sin, character flaws, and debauchery on the part of the leadership of Apologia Church.

45:14

And I'm sorry, it's Apologia Church. That's what they call it, but I teach Greek. Okay. This is an old joke, but I ain't changing how

45:23

I pronounce Greek and they don't care and they still let me speak. So it's all right. So what's the line that JD has transgressed is the line of saying,

45:35

I wouldn't do things this way, can't call it sin, but I'm going to judge the character of people that I do not know based upon partial information.

45:47

Now, how much of this has to do with the fact that it was Apologia that sponsored his debate with Joel McDermott?

45:55

I don't know. I don't know. But my experience is, and I've thought through so much of this over the past couple of days,

46:05

I've listened to JD's presentation twice and I've had all sorts of wonderful thoughts that I will never remember to be able to express because I'm hurrying too much.

46:15

But there is a mindset and it's a mindset I once had.

46:22

And that mindset is, if you look differently than me and you do it differently than me, I can't really accept your profession of faith seriously.

46:34

It is the separatist, independent fundamentalist Baptist type thing, but it's not just limited to independent fundamentalist

46:43

Baptists. There are even reformed folks that fall into this. I know reformed

46:49

Baptists who will say that Presbyterians are good brothers in the

46:55

Lord, but they won't act that way. Because in their hearts and minds, that pato -Baptism thing, you know, if you really got it, you wouldn't do that kind of thing.

47:07

It's just a remnant of papism. And so I just, you know,

47:12

I just don't know if we can really get together. And there's plenty of Presbyterians. In fact, I would say there are more Presbyterians that have that attitude toward Baptists than reformed

47:22

Baptists do toward Presbyterians, to be perfectly honest with you. Anyway, this is what's getting me in trouble with a lot of these folks.

47:31

The Michael Brown friendship is one of the clearest examples. He's just so wrong on so many things.

47:37

You can't, you can't, you can't. He just looks too different.

47:44

It doesn't matter what he professes. It doesn't matter that he talks about justification by faith and grace. No, no, no.

47:49

If you just took it to its logical conclusion, there's just too much. I don't even need this thing in my ear anymore.

47:55

There's just too much stuff there. We can't go there. Okay. Somewhere along the lines,

48:02

I realized that I had been preaching one thing and doing something else.

48:07

I preached that there are certain things that define the gospel of Jesus Christ. Could I go to this

48:12

Resolve 2016? Is it Resolve? That sounds like a cleaner to me. But isn't there

48:18

Resolve? I think there's Resolve cleaner. But Resolve 2016, where all these big names are and so is the

48:23

Pope. Is that the one? Okay. It starts with an R. It has 2016 in it. Anyway, I could never go there except on one condition, to debate.

48:33

If I can debate somebody on whether the Pope is the Holy Father. But if everyone's running around calling the

48:40

Pope the Holy Father, that's a gospel issue. Okay. I mean, there's history here.

48:46

You can ground it in the text. This is Romans 3, 4, and 5. This is, boom.

48:52

This is Galatians. This is Galatians 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. It's right there.

49:00

One is Pentecostals, Unitarians, the Trinity, who we're worshiping. Bingo. It's right there on the surface.

49:08

It's definitional. It's 1 Corinthians chapter 15. It's right there. There's no way that it's adiaphora.

49:16

There's no way that it's just, well, you know, they've got their emphasis. We've got our emphasis. None of that stuff.

49:22

It's absolutely definitional. And see, I've been preaching for a long time. We've got to draw lines.

49:28

The problem is finding the balance in how you draw those lines and recognizing that I am a fallible human being and I'm going to get to heaven.

49:38

I'm going to discover there are lots of things that I had wrong. And I don't want to be the

49:44

Pharisees. The Pharisees had the word of God. The Pharisees had so much right. And yet they were the main people

49:51

Jesus went after. I don't want to be a Pharisee. I don't want to be amongst those people. And so making the distinction between identifying false teaching and then going, and so therefore this person is a false teacher.

50:13

Recognizing that we can talk about theology. We can go the word of God, but I can't look into the hearts and minds of other individuals.

50:21

There are going to be people who are big names at reformed conferences that are going to be in hell. They're going to be in hell because they're fooling us the whole time.

50:32

And there are going to be people in heaven that a bunch of folks are going to go, oh my, there's grace.

50:39

Yeah. And I'd be one of the chief ones, I guess. I have learned to try to express grace as well as discernment in my life.

50:59

And that's a tough balance to keep. And if you don't like where my balance is, well, I don't stand before you.

51:07

You may think I do. You may want to pretend I do. I don't. I don't.

51:12

And you don't stand before me. But here's the problem. J .D.,

51:21

I don't think you know Jeff Durbin. I don't think you know Luke. I don't think you know these people.

51:27

You're looking at them from a distance. You're looking at them from outside. You do not see that that is a young man who is absolutely sold out to be pastor of those people.

51:42

The man goes from morning till night. He's beaten himself up physically.

51:50

He gives everything 100%. And what you don't understand is this church grew out of a drug rehabilitation program.

52:03

I have never seen anyone drunk in any context.

52:10

Never. They preach against it. They teach against it. Do you realize you are impugning the character of men and women who are on the forefront of opposing abortionists?

52:22

Oh, who cares? Roman Catholics do the same thing. They put their money where their mouth is. They put their money where their mouth is.

52:30

They adopt children. They're on the forefront of this stuff.

52:37

Well, he's a theonomist. Well, see, there's where the stuff starts coming in. There's where the bias and bigotry starts coming in.

52:47

When that starts becoming the lens that allows you to impugn the character of people who are absolutely sold out, these people are willing to disrupt their lives, to disrupt their friendships, to pick their families up and serve

53:03

Christ someplace else. You might want to be asking yourself the question, why aren't more churches like that?

53:10

But when you realize their background, when you realize that that's where they came out of, drug rehabilitation, they are not pushing debauchery.

53:23

These people are homeschooling, sold out believers in Jesus Christ with leaders who love them.

53:32

And even though they know the worship service isn't quite what we have at PRBC.

53:42

All right. Now, nor should it be because the people they've got there would not flourish in our place and vice versa.

53:54

I happen to think that's okay. Churches are not supposed to be clones of one another.

54:00

And if you define maturity on the basis of your mirror image, that's where the problem is.

54:08

That's where the problem is. I have tried to be of benefit to Jeff and to Luke and the people at Apologia.

54:22

I have tried to model as much maturity as I can. And I have a feeling

54:29

Jeff would, I know Jeff has said that I'm one of the major theological influences in his life. And that's humbling.

54:38

That's humbling. But the reality is,

54:45

I know these guys, I'm here and you are not, JD. You are not. And the information you're going on is so partial that it's laughable.

54:56

Laughable, pure gossip. You're exactly right. It's pure gossip. You are wrong here, sir.

55:04

I know these men. Are they perfect? No. And they are the first persons to tell you that.

55:12

I agreed with so much of what you said. Let me just mention really quickly. And I've, oh man, this stuff about the

55:19

Reform Pub. Have I left the Reform Pub in the past? I have. Why am I in there right now? There's a bunch of people in there that don't like me.

55:27

And my finger has hovered over the unsubscribe or leave group button more than once.

55:34

And I don't agree with everything that happens in there. And I agree with you that alcohol for the sake of alcohol is stupid.

55:41

Do I drink? Yeah. Right before I go to bed. That's the only time I do. You know why?

55:47

Because I did an experiment. I pick up minimally two to four hours of extra sleep per month because I have half a serving of a

56:00

Smirnoff ice before I go to bed. Woo hoo. I don't do it in public.

56:05

I'm not comfortable with it. I didn't go on a beer run. I detest beer. I think beer is best used to clean bicycle tires.

56:14

I just can't stand the stuff. But I realize there are people who like it.

56:20

I had dinner with some Christians the night before last and everybody but me, almost everybody but me had one. Life goes on.

56:29

Is there immaturity amongst? Do I agree with people who try to tell you you have to be, you have to drink alcohol to be reformed?

56:37

Of course not. But you don't seem to understand. There are a lot of people at Apologia that don't drink.

56:45

They can't. They've come out of a alcohol rehabilitation situation. Why isn't that in that article?

56:55

You went on bad information, JD, just like every one of your enemies did about the canner stuff.

57:04

Doggone it. Why do you keep doing this? You went on partial information.

57:11

And as a result, you have brought into question the character of godly men who recognize their own imperfections, who are always open to correction.

57:22

If I ever came to Jeff or Luke and said, guys, what about this? They would so graciously accept anything

57:30

I would have to say to them. How many pastors are like that? How many?

57:37

How many can move people to do the kinds of things that Apologia is doing in this church plant? Not many.

57:45

And I am afraid when our reformed orthodoxy starts causing us to look at the pharisaical robes and going, those are really attractive.

57:57

That's dangerous. It's dangerous. Stop being a judge from afar.

58:12

You blew it on this one. I agree with so much of what you say. Why am

58:18

I still in the reformed pub? Because I try to be a positive example. And I'm concerned about some folks that sort of hang out in there trying to grab off people to be disciples themselves, to be perfectly honest with you.

58:31

Do I think it's, do I agree with Joel McDermott that it's an online biblical institute? No, it's a

58:37

Facebook group. Sometimes there are good conversations, but to be honest with you, I stopped following the comments after the first day because after that it goes off into whatever.

58:52

But you know what, JD, who has the best opportunity of influencing those people for the good?

58:58

You or me? That one's a given. Why? Because I recognize there are immature people in there.

59:08

I don't promote that. I don't think that's a good thing. I don't embrace any of that.

59:14

You said I'm coalescing with this be cool Calvinist stuff. I'm the least cool person on the planet.

59:24

I'm a pasty white Scotsman. I look like I fell down the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way.

59:31

I'm not cool. But the reality is there are a lot of people in the reformed pub that go, yeah, but you have stood firm for so long in so many different contexts.

59:43

And I appreciate that. And I learned from that. Sorry. Obviously I'm rather passionate about this because the fact of the matter is we need more pastors who are sold out to their people rather than some type of orthodox cold piety.

01:00:16

Obviously I don't do everything the way that they do there because our people are different. Our callings are different, but man,

01:00:24

I love those guys. And I am so thankful when I see somebody who tries to remain balanced and they're trying to remain balanced.

01:00:32

They're not trying to make a mega church. They're not trying to bring people in. You guys have just completely missed them.

01:00:39

Completely missed them. Stop it. Just stop it.

01:00:45

You do good discernment work, stick with the issues and get away from the persons.

01:00:53

That's what you need, JD. You would be a great polemicist if you could learn to address the things that you find troubling and what someone says without thinking you can look into their heart.

01:01:06

You can't. I know that you're trying to do the right thing and I love you as a brother, but you are a loose cannon.

01:01:16

I almost took the time to put the picture of you and me up where I'm holding your fully kitted out

01:01:22

AR -15 and point out to you, there'd be a lot of folks who would find that offensive and irresponsible and immature.

01:01:30

And did. Don't you see the parallels?

01:01:35

Don't you get it? Up there in Montana, that ain't immature. That's cool. Anyway, enough.

01:01:45

Mainly because, not because I'm tired, but because I'm out of time and literally got to get someplace before it closes or I'm in big trouble.

01:01:57

Jeff, Luke, everybody at PolyGear, love you. You perfect.

01:02:02

No more than I am, but I'm awful glad I'm in it with you. And I learned from your zeal.

01:02:09

Love you guys. Want to be even more of an influence. You know, Jeff's asked me,

01:02:15

Hey, could you teach Greek for us? Man, I wish I could, but you guys know as well as I do. When do any of us have the time for that?

01:02:23

I love you guys. And JD, I love you too.

01:02:30

You, I want to encourage you, even though I've just slapped you down. Learn to make the distinction between the teaching and the heart.

01:02:40

Focus upon the teaching. And you could do great things. You really could.

01:02:48

The day's coming when we are going to have to get past a lot of this side stuff and be focused upon what really matters.

01:02:57

It's almost on us. We don't have time for this. Get behind what they're doing in Kauai.

01:03:04

There's a need there. There's a need in so many different places. And stop judging from afar.

01:03:11

I'd like to be able to take that Hebrew phrase I came up with and apply it to somebody else. I really would.

01:03:19

All right. Don't know when we're going to have another dividing line. So it depends on a bunch of things, but something tells me there's probably gonna be half a dozen videos from different perspectives.

01:03:32

It'll post by the time that I get up to Colorado and get settled. So we'll see. We'll see what we can do.

01:03:37

They might be short. They might be just one hour, maybe even less than that. I don't know. We'll see. We'll do the best we can. Thank you for listening.