June 30, 2022 Show with Dr. Latayne C. Scott on “A Former Mormon Discusses the Unique Challenges of Reaching the Spiritually Homeless”

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July 1, 2022

June 30, 2022 Dr. LATAYNE C. SCOTT, a Mormon convert to Christianity, who earned her PhD in biblical studies, recipient of Pepperdine University’s Distinguished Christian Service Award for Creative Christian Writing, Dean of the College of Professional & Creative Writing at Trinity Southwest University in Albuquerque, New Mexico, & an award-winning veteran of the Christian publishing industry, having written over two dozen books, including “The MORMON MIRAGE”, who will address: “A FORMER MORMON Discusses the UNIQUE CHALLENGES of REACHING the SPIRITUALLY ‘HOMELESS’ WHO FLEE FROM the OUTREACH of CHRISTIANS AFTER the DEVASTATION of BEING MISLED & HARMED by a CULT” & introducing Latayne’s new book: “Under the Banner of the Mormon Code”

00:04: Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown
00:10: Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
00:23: Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.
00:31: Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
00:38: Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
00:51: It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.
00:58: And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,
01:10: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.
01:19: This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 30th day of June 2022.
01:28: And I am thrilled to have back on the program by popular demand, Dr. Latine C.
01:36: Scott. She is a Mormon convert to Christianity who earned her
01:41: PhD in biblical studies. She's a recipient of Pepperdine University's Distinguished Christian Service Award for Creative Writing.
01:50: She's the dean of the College of Professional and Creative Writing at Trinity Southwest University in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and an award -winning veteran of the
01:59: Christian publishing ministry, having written over two dozen books, including
02:04: The Mormon Mirage. And today, we are going to be addressing A Former Mormon Discusses the
02:11: Unique Challenges of Reaching the Spiritually Homeless Who Flee from the
02:16: Outreach of Christians After the Devastation of Being Misled and Harmed by a
02:21: Cult. We're also going to be introducing Latine's new book, Under the Banner of the
02:26: Mormon Code. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Truck and Zion Radio, Dr. Latine C.
02:31: Scott. Always a pleasure, Chris. Thank you. Well, tell us, first of all, about The Mormon Mirage, since it's probably your most well -known and I'm assuming most widely read book, especially on the issue of the
02:53: Mormon religion, which used to be the religion that you held so dear and loved.
02:58: And this is a book that has become a classic, really, on this subject.
03:05: Tell us about The Mormon Mirage. Well, it's actually stayed in print now for, what, 43 years?
03:12: Yeah, 43 years, which is kind of unusual for any book. And it's gone through three revisions.
03:20: The last one was a really major revision, because when I first wrote the book,
03:25: I was just fresh out of Mormonism. And I still had all my notes.
03:30: I've taken notes at every meeting I ever attended for the last five years of my tenure as a
03:36: Mormon. I was coming fresh off scholarships at BYU and a great love for Mormonism and a great love for the
03:46: Mormon people. The love for Mormonism began to fade, of course, as I saw the many discrepancies between what
03:56: I had been taught as a faithful Mormon and the history of the Mormon Church, which, once I started reading it, it didn't match up.
04:06: And then I discovered that the Bible, in many places, didn't match up with Mormon doctrine. And then
04:12: I found that Mormon doctrine didn't match up with Mormon doctrine. And so when
04:17: I left the Mormon Church and wrote the book, these things were still fresh in my experience.
04:24: And now, many years later, I go back and read it, and I have the same question that some people have, and that is, how is it that someone could believe that so fervently and not only believe it and love it, but because I have my record of how
04:43: I felt about it at the time, it's easier for me, I guess, to feel a great deal of empathy for Mormons who are struggling with their faith right now.
04:53: Great. Well, if anybody would like to purchase that book, I strongly urge you to go to cvbbs .com,
05:03: Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com, who sponsor this program. And if they do not have it left in stock, you can just ask them to order it, and they will order that for you.
05:17: And you can tell them it's The Mormon Mirage by Dr. Latane C. Scott, published by Zondervan.
05:23: And it's not to be confused with a book by the same title by Hank Hanegraaff, who, for some bizarre reason, insisted on titling his book with the same name after Latane's book had already been in print for decades.
05:38: So that still remains a bizarre mystery to me why he did that.
05:45: I'd like to say something about Cumberland Valley Bookstore. Anytime I've gotten a book from them, it's always been very carefully packed.
05:54: It's obvious that they take great pride in what they're doing, and I really urge your listeners to patronize
06:03: Cumberland Valley Bible Bookstore because they really do care about their customers.
06:09: Wow, that's a great plug, and I hope that somebody there is listening. If not, I'll make sure they get a recording of this interview.
06:17: It's cvbbs .com. Well, now let us know about this new book, which
06:24: I believe, if I'm not mistaken, is a novel. And this novel is titled
06:31: Under the Banner of the Mormon Code, obviously a takeoff on the series, the
06:40: Hulu series, Under the Banner of Heaven. And please explain. This book, actually,
06:48: I wrote quite a while back, and it was actually written before the Hulu series. And one thing that people often don't take into account about the
06:58: Hulu series is that the two characters in the Hulu series, Detective Jeb Hyrie and Detective Taba, are two people that were actually invented for this docudrama.
07:11: And so they're novelistic themselves because they never existed.
07:18: These are two people invented for the series. And my book demonstrates what would happen in a murder mystery if someone decided they were going to live out and play out the doctors of the early
07:32: Mormon church. And, of course, in Under the Banner of Heaven, the Lafferty brothers do enact blood atonement, which is one of the early doctrines of the
07:41: Mormon church that was since not practiced by the mainstream
07:48: Mormon church. But there are many other things about Mormonism that people don't know.
07:53: And I wanted to demonstrate in a novel form, in what I hoped would be an enjoyable mystery, some of the things about Mormonism, and to explain them sympathetically from the
08:07: Mormon point of view, but also to demonstrate how foreign they are to Biblical Christianity.
08:17: And in my novel, Under the Banner of the Mormon Code, the clues that are left by the perpetrator of the crimes are written in the
08:26: Deseret Alphabet, which is an actual alphabet code that Brigham Young commissioned to have
08:32: Mormon documents written in. So I try to do a lot of explaining of early
08:38: Mormon history, and to my great joy, people who were faithful Mormons, or are faithful Mormons, say that what
08:47: I've depicted there, historically speaking, is inaccurate. So that makes me feel good.
08:54: And I did not see the book on your website. Is it going to be up there for people who want to purchase that book?
09:03: It is going to be up there, and I'm not sure if Cumberland Valley Bookstore has access to it, but I do know it's on Amazon, in both e -book and print book.
09:16: Okay. Well, I would still urge our listeners to first go to cbbbs .com, and as I said, if they don't have it, they can order it.
09:25: And they're very competitive with their prices, which is most of the time lower than can be found elsewhere.
09:32: Well, today, even though we've touched on this, during our interviews not long ago, we had,
09:43: I believe, two interviews, if I'm not mistaken, on the series
09:49: Under the Banner of Heaven. Am I right? Did we do two on that? No, we just did one.
09:55: Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Well, I'm sorry. This is the second one.
10:01: Okay. Well, yeah, that was on June 2nd.
10:07: We did a program where you, as an ex -Mormon, were analyzing the
10:13: TV series Under the Banner of Heaven, which I was riveted to have completed watching it.
10:22: And although we touched on the subject of how you had a powerful reaction to watching it because of the similarities in how the lead character, the detective
10:43: Jeb, was responding to his journey of discovery into the roots of Mormonism and to learn of things that he had not known before involving their gruesomely violent past and so on, their racism and other things, and it became more and more of a burden for him during this broadcast because he, in the beginning, you can sense the character had a deep love for Mormonism and being a
11:24: Mormon. And it's quite interesting. It's the...
11:29: I can't even remember seeing another series or movie where the lead character is constantly rebuking the other characters in the story for using foul language.
11:45: And even though you knew, as a Christian, that you were watching a series that involved a fictitious character who was a
11:55: Mormon, at the same time there were some things that even a
12:01: Christian could resonate with some of his behavior and reactions and so on.
12:07: But if you could, for the sake of those who didn't hear our interview on Under the
12:14: Banner of Heaven, and by the way, I advise everybody listening after this live interview is over to go to the archive of ironsharponsirenradio .com,
12:24: type in Latayne, L -A -T -A -Y -N -E, in the search engine, and there'll be quite a number of interviews that come up, and the most recent at the very top will be that very interview on Under the
12:38: Banner of Heaven. But for the sake of our listeners who did not hear that interview, repeat how profoundly you were moved watching this series, especially in regard to Jeb's discovery of the falsehood and even the evil that existed and permeated in the
13:05: Mormon religion. I thought the television series did a very good job of depicting this, and what happened was this faithful Mormon man is given a book that has photocopies of early
13:20: Mormon documents. And the series takes place in the mid -1980s,
13:26: I think, and I left Mormonism in 1979, so it's right in the time period of when I left
13:31: Mormonism. And this detective, who's a faithful Mormon and is well -known in his community, takes this book and sits out in his car alone in his garage with just the dome light on and is looking at these documents, and he is just sickened by it.
13:50: And I know a lot of people make changes of religion,
13:56: Chris, and I know that you went through quite a transformation yourself when you completely gave yourself to God and to the
14:05: Lord Jesus Christ. But most people don't have to repudiate a theological past in the way that Mormons who leave
14:13: Mormonism have to do, because, well, it might be true of some
14:18: Roman Catholics who come upon some of the abuses of authority in the
14:25: Roman Catholic Church. But when someone goes from being a Methodist to a Presbyterian, for instance, there's not this enormous sense of discovering things that you didn't want to know and re -representing reality, re -representing your leaders, re -representing your heritage in the same sense that Pierre Pirie did and I did.
14:48: For me, I was sitting in a bank warehouse because I had been hired in a temporary job to help organize some of the forms that the bank used in their business transactions.
15:02: And on my breaks, I would get that same book. That's an actual book in the series that he was reading called
15:10: Mormonism, Shadow, or Reality, the same book I was reading. And I just remember this sickness, physical illness that I felt.
15:19: And at one point, Pirie, as he's being confronted with these things, goes and vomits into a trash can because he's so upset about what he's finding out.
15:29: And I have to say that the summer of 1979 when I was struggling with trying to justify
15:36: Mormonism, because I wanted to, because I loved it, I had that same physical reaction.
15:44: And let's explore now the main theme that we are addressing today.
15:54: A lot of Christians, when they are evangelizing the lost, even though every lost person, regardless of their background, whether they are an openly, scandalously wicked person in matters of morals and so on, or if they are even a very pious and religiously dedicated person in a false religion or cult, there is something unique about the mission field that includes those that have been seriously harmed mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and sometimes even physically by being in a false church or cult.
16:53: And there is, as it were, a homeless situation for them spiritually.
17:01: These, in my own experience, this type of people have been the hardest to reach.
17:09: They have been the hardest to even give you a listening ear. In fact, as I said the last time when
17:16: I interviewed you on the TV series Under the Banner of Heaven, the nastiness that I was receiving from people who were former
17:28: Mormons, the vicious remarks that I was having hurled at me was just a reminder of how very unique this group of people are.
17:46: And in fact, we can't even say that this group of people is monolithic. You have all different kinds of stories and backgrounds and motivations and presuppositions.
17:57: But if you could, just take up from there, I don't know how long, if at all, you were ready to give up at all on belief in God or anything like that, but there are some who have totally abandoned any concept of God, any concept of religion, any concept of faith that involves anything involving a deity and commitment to a worship and an obedience to that deity.
18:30: But if you could, just pick it up from there. Someone who faces the demolition of everything that they have thought they knew to be true about God or about a church on earth or their earthly leaders or doctrine or scripture has to go down, has to go through something
18:54: I called, in my own life, a teardown. You know, it's like when you have a building and you discover that the building is rotten inside and that there's mold and termites and everything else and it's about to fall down on your head so you get out of it.
19:09: But you can't just prop it up and go back and live in it. And so I had to do what
19:15: I called a teardown. And I actually described this in the Mormon Mirage that I went through an actual procedure.
19:23: And bear in mind, Chris, when this happened to me I was 21 years old. There was no internet.
19:32: There was no network that I knew of, of ex -Mormons. I felt completely alone in this.
19:39: Other than the books by Gerald and Sandra Tanner which I was just referring to, and others.
19:45: But I mean, they were in Utah and I was here. We didn't have the email. We didn't have those sorts of things.
19:50: It never occurred to me to call them up on the phone to talk to them. Because one of the things that when you've been totally invested in a false religion is you begin to doubt your own judgment.
20:02: Whether or not you can correctly assess anything. I didn't feel the anger and betrayal that you just described.
20:13: But in that teardown process, Chris, I sat down with myself and thought if Mormonism is wrong, what is right?
20:22: Because this young man who later became my husband who was giving me these books just because Mormonism was wrong didn't mean that Christianity and he were right.
20:37: So the emotional and theological teardown I did was I had to decide whether or not there was a
20:43: God. And I didn't realize it at the time, Chris, but I was doing exactly what it talks about in Romans 1 verses 18 through 22 or so where it says that there are certain things that anybody has access to about God.
20:59: That He is a God with divine powers and that He manifests
21:08: Himself through creation. But even that, I had to negotiate in my own mind if that's true or not.
21:17: And so I want people to understand when they're asking someone to leave Mormonism if they truly love it and they truly are happy with it that the
21:29: Christian has to be willing to go through a very difficult period of grieving, sometimes anger and other things because the web's pulled out from underneath you and you don't know what to believe.
21:44: I made the choice. I guess it was a choice to believe that there was a
21:49: God because of what I could see in the world. There was the created order.
21:54: There's order. There's beauty. There's power. Those things. But that doesn't really tell you very much other than there is a
22:03: God who created things. And for me, that was not enough. So the next step in the rebuilding after the teardown down to the concrete of what to believe, if there was a
22:18: God and He had created this, what I could see was an orderly and beautiful world.
22:29: I mean, I lived close to the Sandia Mountains. I've lived in New Mexico my whole life when I wasn't in Utah.
22:35: I mean, just the gorgeousness of God's creation. I had to say, that must reflect something of Him, the kind of power that could do that.
22:45: And then I made another, I guess, a leap of faith to decide whether or not such a
22:54: God was a good God because the same God that created those beautiful mountains and the solidity of them also created earthquakes and natural disasters.
23:11: So I had to make a decision about whether this creator
23:17: God, I guess I never thought of that before this moment, but whether or not
23:22: I could trust Him. Because, again, this sense of betrayal, this sense of disorientation, this sense of inability to trust my own assessment of things because I've been so wrong before.
23:39: And it's certainly an absolute determination not to depend on my own emotions because it had been my emotions, the burning in the bosom type stuff, that had got me into and kept me into Mormonism.
23:54: So I knew I could depend on that. I had to reason this out. So I decided that I was going to assume that He was a good
24:03: God. The next step I took in this build -up from the teardown,
24:11: I reasoned in my own self that if there was a God and He was a good God, creator
24:17: God, a powerful God, that He would want some sort of communication with human beings.
24:24: In other words, I could imagine that He would have invested whatever it took, of course, it's effortless for Him, but whatever seems to us to be enormous creativity and enormous power and enormous attention to detail that He put into this created world, would
24:51: He have created sentient human beings with the ability to talk and communicate and the ability to form relationships, the ability to think about thinking, which animals can't do.
25:05: Animals can think, obviously. They can sometimes communicate, but they can't communicate about their own thinking process.
25:13: Only human beings can do that. So such a creator who created those kind of human beings must have,
25:22: I reasoned. And again, this is not a template for anybody, I'm just telling you what
25:27: I went through. I reasoned such a being must want to communicate with the people that He created.
25:37: Okay, are you with me so far, Chris? Oh, yeah. Okay. And so if that were the case, if He were going to create, if He were going to communicate with human beings, and I just come out of a, or was just struggling with a system of thought that says that He communicates directly with human beings in an actual hierarchical chain of command type of thing in the
26:03: Mormon church, where the prophet could receive revelation for the whole church and then it goes down to the
26:10: Twelve Apostles and the Seventy and others, where it trickles down to where actually a woman can only receive revelation for herself and her children because her husband receives revelation for her and her children.
26:29: So if there was that kind of communication going on and it could be wrong or it could be incorrect or it could be invalidated, maybe that's what
26:41: I should say, it could be invalidated by discovering that it was inconsistent and actually hurtful to human beings and contradictory to another book of Scripture, which is the
26:53: Bible, I had to decide, could there be an authoritative source of communication that didn't depend on people's emotions and did not depend on individual human beings to validate truth and reality.
27:13: And I decided, and I cannot tell you what had me decide that, but I decided to trust the
27:19: Bible. And from then on I was able to build a house, so to speak, in which
27:26: I could live, in which I could believe that I could have fellowship with God. Amen.
27:34: We're going to our first break right now because I don't want to interrupt you in mid -sentence, and we're very close to where I take the first break anyway.
27:44: If you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Dr. LaTane C.
27:49: Scott on the issue we are addressing, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,
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28:04: Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's say you are in a church or religion that you are beginning to fear is a false church, a false religion, a cult, and you don't want to identify yourself publicly as of yet.
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38:33: that's heritagepresbyterianchurch .com or call 678 -954 -7831 that's 678 -954 -7831
38:44: If you visit, tell them Joe O 'Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener from a tie in County Kildare, Ireland, sent you.
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39:14: There's tiered content so that you can go to the older group and learn more or go to a younger section and it's even more simple.
39:22: Join us on our journey in developing our magazine entitled Ignited by the
39:27: Word which engages and ignites the hearts of our children and young people in their walk with God.
39:35: Order Ignited by the Word for your home today at ignitedbytheword .org
39:41: Learn more information and subscribe now at ignitedbytheword .org and receive your first two issues free and put good literature in your children's hands.
39:53: And Ignited by the Word is coming up very quickly on their renewal date for advertising with us.
40:00: They've advertised with us for a full year. So if you want to help further ensure that they will renew their advertising contract with us why not subscribe to that magazine today especially if you have young children, grandchildren, nephews, nieces, their children in the neighborhood of other families that you have fellowship with and even at your church go to ignitedbytheword .org
40:32: ignitedbytheword .org and in doing so when you subscribe you will be helping to keep
40:39: Iron Sharpens Iron radio on the air. We're now back with Dr. Latane C. Scott if you just tuned us in we are discussing a former
40:48: Mormon discusses the unique challenges of reaching the spiritually homeless who flee from the outreach of Christians after the devastation of being misled and harmed by a cult.
40:59: Our email address if you have a question is chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com
41:05: as always give us your first name at least, your city and state and your country of residence I believe we have a first time questioner with a question
41:14: Amy in Leveland, Texas and sorry Amy if I'm mispronouncing the city in which you live but Amy says in my limited study it seems to me that Mormonism and Islam have more in common than Mormonism and Christianity is that a fair assessment and can you expound on it if so and she has one other question here so I'll let you start with the first one they do have similarities in that they claim to be the product of a single person to whom
41:54: God restored or gave exclusive truth they do both claim to have a system of thought that produces a scripture with biblical terms sometimes and connections with the
42:14: Bible without advocating all Bible concepts
42:20: Joseph Smith actually at one point drew a comparison of himself to Muhammad yeah didn't he call himself the second
42:30: Muhammad I don't remember exactly how he put it but he did compare himself to Muhammad and I think also the sense of starting something new and unique was always on his mind and of course
42:49: I think an inescapable similarity is a works based righteousness even though Mormons use the word grace they really do not believe in a biblical concept of salvation being free and a free gift from God they really believe that they are helping to earn and merit their their state in the eternal life am
43:21: I right well I'm glad you said that their state in the eternal life because in Mormon doctrine the word salvation is something that's given to all human beings which is the ability to be resurrected where you end up in eternity in the celestial the terrestrial or the celestial kingdom or in hell depends on your actions from that point on and of course the thing that would make them radically different is that Islam is monotheistic to the point where they think wrongly that Christians are tritheistic and in fact the worst sin that you can commit in Islam is the sin of shirk which is giving partners to God and what they mean by that is if you were to say that Jesus Christ is
44:19: God incarnate you are doing that and that is a worse sin than murder, rape anything else you can conceive of doing in an evil fashion that is their worst form of abomination on the other hand of the spectrum you have
44:34: Mormons having an infinite number of gods they would perhaps be more correctly defined as henotheists because they worship one god on this planet but they believe in an infinite number of other gods, in fact they will be gods if they are faithful Mormons, right?
44:54: Excellent, yes, excellent Chris exactly what you said and her, Amy's second question when coming out of the
45:01: LDS where were you ever uncertain of God or was it your certainty that led you out?
45:10: Oh, I was uncertain of God when I decided to be baptized for instance it was a sense of being vanquished and it's
45:23: I was in a card game and somebody else had all the winning cards but that didn't mean I had to like it
45:29: I was relieved to be making a clean break with Mormonism I thought
45:36: I was although emotionally I wasn't but it was a good 10 years after I left the
45:44: Mormon church and was active in a Christian church where I really had what
45:51: I earnestly desired which was fellowship with Jesus Christ Amen, well thank you
45:58: Amy and guess what, if you are indeed a first time questioner send us your full name and mailing address in Level 1,
46:07: Texas because you have won a new New American Standard Bible compliments of the publishers of the
46:13: NASB and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com
46:19: who will actually be shipping it out to you and we always give first time questioners a free
46:27: New American Standard Bible so I hope you enjoy yours and I hope you keep listening and writing back when we are interviewing other guests
46:34: We have Andrew in New York City and a very interesting question
46:41: How do we keep someone from a cult oh I'm sorry
46:47: I misread that, how do we keep someone coming from a cult from falling into antinomianism in other words and I've met people like this who were not only involved in cults and left but were even involved in very strict
47:05: Christian homes they might have been even theologically orthodox homes faithful to the
47:12: Bible but the homes were overly rigid and restrictive and even bordering on pharisaic and judgmental in their control of their children or even the churches control over the congregants, an extreme form of fundamentalism in Christianity and when they left some of them have claimed to retain their belief in Christ but they think that they can live any way they want they exaggerate and twist biblical grace giving it giving to it a license to sin and Paul himself should said that if should we sin that grace may more abound
48:03: God forbid so Paul has already answered that issue and of course
48:11: James in his epistle but you have any counsel, any thoughts on those that leave a restrictive rigid domineering perhaps dictatorial cult and then they want to just live any way they choose even if they are still claiming to believe in God it's a difficult situation
48:36: Chris because what do you throw out when you leave an all inclusive thought form which
48:43: Mormonism is an all inclusive thought form it tells you it answers all of the major worldview questions, what's the most real thing in existence what happens to man after death etc.
48:57: and maybe we can get into that in the second hour but when someone leaves this section on all inclusive explanation for reality actually you don't just dump everything out and start from scratch
49:13: I mean I did on the concept of God but you can do a teardown but you just can't do a teardown of everything you've ever thought so I remember just how sinful and really almost thrilling it felt when
49:30: I drank my first dock of pepper because when I was a faithful Mormon you didn't drink any drinks with caffeine in them and so that was my big rebellion which may sound kind of silly but I had actually lived the word of wisdom so strictly that I didn't eat chocolate for a long time when
49:52: I was a Mormon because it contained a substance similar to caffeine so drinking a doctor pepper was a big deal but when people it is a great temptation to just say well you know the basis of my former faith is suspect and therefore all the rules that were applied in it are suspect they should be suspect but many of them are biblical
50:19: I mean it is biblical to be a good citizen it is biblical to lead a good clean moral life as Mormonism teaches whether or not adherence especially historically has done that is not the issue it is the right thing to do so what do you throw out and what do you keep and so many people just once they feel freed from the restrictions the sometimes quite stringent restrictions of Mormonism go the opposite way and want to experiment and experience many things they haven't we see a comparable example
51:01: Chris many times with Christian kids who go away to college they are underneath the restrictions of their parents and they do many stupid things just because they can do them and they have been forbidden in the past and so I think we can see a parallel there and maybe it might help people to understand a bit better why people who have left
51:24: Mormonism many of them do a lot of things they regret later let's just put it that way well thank you
51:32: Andrew and keep listening to Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio and spreading the word about the program in New York City and beyond and we're going to our midway break right now please be patient with us folks because the midway break is a bit longer than the other breaks in the show we are required to have a longer break in the middle of the show because Grace Life Radio who airs this program down in Lake City, Florida they are required by the
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53:37: Latane C. Scott to chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com don't go away we're going to be right back right after these messages with more of Dr.
53:46: Latane C. Scott Attention all men in ministry leadership you're all invited to my friend
54:03: Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon Thursday September 22nd 11am to 2pm at Church of the
54:12: Living Christ in Loisville Pennsylvania featuring me, James White of Alpha Omega Ministries your keynote speaker not only will you enjoy a wonderful time of fellowship with your colleagues in ministry over a delicious meal but you'll also receive dozens of free brand new books donated by Christian publishers all over the
54:30: United States and the United Kingdom personally selected by Chris Arnson host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio so if you're a pastor, an elder a deacon, a parachurch leader or any other man in ministry leadership please register for the
54:44: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon today by calling 631 -291 -7002 631 -291 -7002 631 -291 -7002 or by visiting
55:00: IronSharpensIronRadio .com IronSharpensIronRadio .com This is James White of Alpha Omega Ministries hoping to see you
55:07: Thursday September 22nd 11am -2pm at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania for Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the
55:43: New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
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56:19: NASB is my Bible of choice I'm Andrew Rappaport the Founder and Executive Director at Striving for Eternity Ministries and the
56:28: NASB is my Bible of choice I'm Mark Romaldi Pastor of Sovereign Grace Church in Greenbrier, Tennessee and the
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56:48: NASB is my Bible of choice I'm Matt Tarr, Pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania and the
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01:00:01: We're a diverse family of all ages. Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship play and together.
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01:02:00: Hi this is John Samson pastor of King's Church in Peoria Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the
01:02:09: Arn Sharpens Iron podcast I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the
01:02:21: Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.
01:02:29: I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide this is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised
01:02:36: Chris up for just such a time and knowing this it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.
01:02:46: I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting
01:02:51: Arn Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?
01:03:00: I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ArnSharpensIronRadio .com
01:03:07: where you can click support. That's ArnSharpensIronRadio .com ArnSharpensIronRadio .com
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01:09:00: needs to find another way to stream the program affordably.
01:09:06: We need your financial help to do that. We also want to remain with First Love Radio.
01:09:13: But in order to do that, we have to pay someone to edit this program every day and provide it for First Love Radio the second day to air commercial free.
01:09:28: So, we're still going to be a program with commercials, but it will be live streaming from a different source than First Love Radio.
01:09:37: And we're still going to be on First Love Radio, but without commercials. But these two new developments, going to another streaming service and also needing the program edited every day, are going to be additional costs on top of everything else that we require to keep this program functioning.
01:09:57: So I'm urging you, if you haven't given for a while, if you've never given before, and you love the show and you don't want it to disappear, please, now we need your donations and your advertising dollars more than ever.
01:10:10: Please go to ironsharponsirenradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now. Or send me an email if you'd like to advertise to chrisorensen at gmail .com
01:10:19: with advertising in the subject line. Please prayerfully pray for providing for us if you really want us to stick around.
01:10:28: And once again, I want to take this time publicly to thank my guest, Dr. Latane C. Scott, who has been an extremely generous financial supporter of this program nearly since we first went on the air.
01:10:41: Thank you again, Dr. Latane C. Scott. My pleasure. My pleasure. I believe in what you're doing.
01:10:46: Thank you very much. And last but not least, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful church,
01:10:53: I have extensive lists spanning the globe, and I've helped many people find churches, sometimes within minutes from their own homes, in all parts of the world.
01:11:04: So if that is your circumstance, you don't know of a
01:11:09: Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, doctrinally sound, theologically solid church near where you live, or if that is the case with somebody that you love, send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com
01:11:21: and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Dr.
01:11:27: Latane C. Scott. That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.
01:11:36: We have an anonymous listener. The anonymous listener says, there are very dear family members of mine who have abandoned the faith, and they seem to refuse to want to sit down to discuss the scriptures or attend a
01:11:57: Bible study or a worship service. Now, I believe there are two extreme errors that often go on in the church.
01:12:06: You have those that only want to show the love of Christ to the lost by doing good things for them, and as it were, be involved in lifestyle evangelism.
01:12:22: And on the other extreme, you have those that only want to teach biblical truths, but in other ways will never give them the time of day.
01:12:36: How do we find a balance in regard to this, and do you agree with my assessment? Well, certainly there has to be not only a balance, but an inclusion of both things, because our lives and our actions speak as loudly as any lesson that we would want to teach, and of course, if we don't assign a cause to our good acts, then people just assume just because we're nice people, we do something.
01:13:09: I always tell people who are dealing with Mormons that, of course, our lifestyle portrays the fervency and the genuine nature of our faith, but also sometimes you have to just say it.
01:13:29: And if you don't have the doctrinal background to be able to talk to a
01:13:34: Mormon, for instance, you can say, you know, I am so happy as a Christian, and I love the
01:13:40: Lord Jesus Christ so much, and I can't think of anything that Mormonism would add to my great satisfaction with the
01:13:48: Lord right now, so maybe we can't, we're not going to be open, or we're not going to pursue your teaching me, but if you want to learn anything about why
01:13:59: I'm so satisfied, I'd be happy to teach you. And I say that because when
01:14:04: I was a Mormon, I believed with all my heart that only Mormons could be happy and be satisfied in their religion, and that everybody else might pretend to be, but that they had this great gaping lack in their lives that only
01:14:19: Mormonism could fill. And just to hear, if I heard Christians say, you know, I'm so satisfied with my relationship with Jesus Christ, and I just love the
01:14:29: Bible, and it's all I need, you know, I spend time in it, and I devote myself to my local body of fellow believers, that would be a great shock to most
01:14:43: Mormons if they heard that coming out of the mouth of people they know are Christians. Now, for the person who has left
01:14:50: Mormonism or any other cult, going back to the original theme, I want your opinion on something that I have done with people that I know that have been harmed by false churches and cults and false religions.
01:15:07: When I say harmed, I don't necessarily mean physically, but emotionally, mentally, spiritually.
01:15:14: They're gun -shy, as it were, to even consider becoming a member of a church, or even before that, even contemplating the necessity to repent and place your faith in Christ.
01:15:32: When they have brought up their horror stories of being somehow abused in a church, whether it's a cult or even a theologically sound one,
01:15:43: I remind them that the Bible itself warns us about false teachers.
01:15:50: And in fact, I tell them sometimes that the fact that this happened to you, the fact that you are under the leadership of a false religion, is in fact further proof that the
01:16:02: Bible is true. Because the Bible warns about this. The Bible warns about even people being false teachers and preachers who call themselves
01:16:13: Christians and use the name of Christ. In fact, we have one of the most bone -chilling verses in the scriptures in Matthew 7, where some of those who are going to be sent into a
01:16:29: Christless eternity are telling Jesus on the judgment throne, did we not perform many good deeds and miracles in your name and cast out demons in your name?
01:16:41: And he says, I never knew you, be gone, you workers of unrighteousness.
01:16:49: So obviously, a bone -chilling thing that will await many people who think that they are right with God and are not.
01:17:00: But isn't that at least a part of a good thing to come up in conversation, where people are just rejecting any concept of God or Christianity, or as they usually put it, organized religion, just because they have been burned and hurt and they have to be reminded.
01:17:24: And in fact, I also say this, so you want to reject Jesus because of Judas? You want to turn your back and never even give a listening ear to Jesus Christ just because one of his apostles was a traitor and a false believer?
01:17:43: So what's your thoughts on that? Well, I've never actually thought of that approach,
01:17:50: Chris. I have such great confidence in God's Word that I think sometimes it can speak, well, in all times, it can speak better than we can.
01:18:04: And I'm thinking of when I was making decisions, reading the Mormon Church, and in that spiritual nether land where I wasn't sure about anything.
01:18:16: I remember opening up my Bible and reading that passage in Galatians that said, even though we, or an angel from heaven, proclaim a different gospel than what we have given you, let it be a curse.
01:18:30: And that one verse caused me to re -represent
01:18:38: Mormonism, which came at the hand of an angel. And I bring that example up because if we believe that the
01:18:46: Bible truly is all -sufficient, that it has everything we need for life's godliness, it seems to me that it also has within it the information or the passages or whatever that we need to most effectively reach people.
01:19:01: It is absolutely true, though, Chris, and I've seen this over the decades that I've loved
01:19:06: Mormonism. Many people just don't want to be taught, and some people do not want to be controlled.
01:19:12: They see any religion as a control, and they choose not to be controlled.
01:19:19: That's the anti -Nomianism that Andrew was talking about. But I think if our conversation is seasoned with Scripture and seasoned with spiritual truth, and we can say to someone without being threatening to them or without imposing on them, here's something wise
01:19:38: I learned in Scripture today, maybe something from one of the Proverbs, where you show your respect for Scripture, and you show that it has validity, that there is truth in these things.
01:19:50: Someone once said to me that better it is to grab a dog by the ears in the middle of a fight than to interfere in a matter that's not your own.
01:20:01: There's so much wisdom in Scripture that doesn't have to necessarily, we think, lead them right to Jesus Christ as much as show respect for Scripture itself.
01:20:12: And I think your method or your tactic that you were talking about does that.
01:20:18: But as we share something we've learned that we appreciate from Scripture, we show our respect for it, and therefore, if someone, it seems to me, if someone has an issue that they want to deal with, they could come to you, even if they don't want to be under the tutelage of the
01:20:39: Lord Jesus Christ at that point, to say, what does the Bible say about this? And of course, the answer as a faithful Christian is,
01:20:47: I may not know, but I'll find out. You know, you don't, I've never presented myself as an expert that can answer every question.
01:20:54: Sometimes I have to say, I don't know, but I'll research it and I'll get back to you. But by showing respect for Scripture itself,
01:21:02: I think that is a giant step forward. We tend to kind of talk about God and spiritual things and Scripture kind of as an afterthought, instead of making our conversation seasoned with it.
01:21:20: We have another anonymous listener who says, what do you think of the phrase, preach the gospel and use words if necessary?
01:21:35: All's I know is I hate that phrase, and I've heard it attributed to Francis of Assisi, although I don't know with certainty that he said it.
01:21:45: But if the speaking of the actual truths in the
01:21:54: Scriptures is like an afterthought, or something on a lower ladder of importance, and we could just do good things, as you were mentioning earlier, none of the apostles would have been martyred.
01:22:06: None of the disciples would have been martyred over the centuries. Jesus Christ, other than the orchestration of God himself for his death and Jesus willingly laying his life down on an earthly sense, he never would have been crucified if all he did was good things.
01:22:25: But anyway, what's your thoughts on that? Well, I've never heard that take on it,
01:22:31: Chris, but I do know this, that faith without words is dead. Oh, of course.
01:22:37: And faith without words might as well be dead, because nobody knows why you're doing the faithful things you're doing.
01:22:46: That's why I said, you have to bring Scripture and God into it. And I could give the example of me coming back from Colorado with my kids in a car one time, and someone was broken down, and we stopped, and we were living in Colorado at the time, and these people had out -of -state flights.
01:23:03: And so while they were fixing their tire, we shared our cold drinks, and we shared our snacks and things with their family, just to kind of, because it's hot, you know.
01:23:13: And when they drove off, I thought to myself, yeah, they probably think the people in Colorado are really nice people.
01:23:19: Instead of saying, I'm doing this in the name of Jesus Christ. I'm a Christian. I'm happy to help you, because of what he's done for me.
01:23:26: See, I missed that golden opportunity. And that's why I'm saying, we allow somebody to give credit to our own good nature, or that they suppose we have a good nature, or to our state, or to our community, or whatever.
01:23:43: When we're motivated, we do these things because of the word Jesus Christ. And we have to say that with our mouth, or they can't probably figure it out, especially in the short of the interaction.
01:23:56: Yes, and please, I don't want anybody to mistake what
01:24:01: I said before, to think that our good deeds and acts of compassion are somehow unimportant, or very far down the ladder of the importance of the behavior of a
01:24:18: Christian. Oh no, I think you made that clear. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure nobody else listening got that, because as I said even earlier,
01:24:28: I quoted from James's epistle, and that's obviously a litmus test, one of the litmus tests of a living or dead faith.
01:24:39: Whether or not you are doing good for your neighbor. We have Cindy in Findley, Ohio.
01:24:47: Hello, Chris and Dr. Latane C. Scott. Dr. Scott, a few years ago, during many witnessing encounters with a schoolmate who had become a
01:24:56: Mormon, but knowing little of the Mormon religion myself, my go -to verse was
01:25:03: James chapter 2, verse 10, for whosoever shall keep the whole law, and offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
01:25:13: It's my understanding that the Mormon religion teaches that if one falls into sin, that all other previous sins returns to him.
01:25:21: I may not understand that correctly, but my question is, how does a Mormon view that verse, and is it beneficial to use that verse in this situation?
01:25:33: I don't remember when I was a Mormon being taught that. I was taught that just as a sin is like a nail, and you pound it into wood, and forgiveness is the removal of the nail that the scar remains.
01:25:53: In Mormonism, I never had the sense that my sins were taken away completely in the eternal sense.
01:26:04: However, because I don't know, and this is just my opinion, if that verse was effective, and the
01:26:12: Lord led you to it, Cindy, I'd say, you know, that's great. But I'm not sure that Mormons who have so many rules and regulations to keep anyway,
01:26:24: I mean, think about this, Chris. They don't have just the Bible to read. They have the Bible and three other books of Scripture, and the teachings of the living prophets, and they're in their semiannual conferences.
01:26:34: So they've got all that information to deal with. They've got all these different rules to keep, and we know about those rules because of the questions they have to answer when they go in for a temple interview, or a tithing settlement, or anything else.
01:26:50: There's so many questions about behavior, and practice, and beliefs that have to be answered, that the amount of guilt they already have for not keeping all the rules,
01:27:03: I would not have been moved by that. But if it worked with her friend, her schoolmate who had become a
01:27:12: Mormon, then that's great. One thing I found out,
01:27:18: I wrote a book called, Ex -Mormons, Why We Left, and I interviewed eight people that left the
01:27:25: Mormon church. One of them was Sandra Tanner, the author of Mormonism, Shadow Reality. And I asked them, what was the single thing that was effective in getting your attention to help you leave
01:27:40: Mormonism? And in every single case, it was something different. And so I say that because if there were a magic bullet, a silver bullet that could get anybody's friend out of Mormonism, or keep them from becoming a
01:27:54: Mormon, if there were such a bullet, people would pay unlimited amounts of money to save their loved one, the sorrow of finding out at the end of time that they had wasted their time with Mormonism.
01:28:11: There's not a single strategy. There's not a single what worked with me may have had absolutely no effect on someone else.
01:28:20: So if Cindy was able to use that to get the attention of her friend, I say go for it.
01:28:26: The Holy Spirit leads us as we read His Word, and leads us to scriptures,
01:28:31: I believe, that can be most effective in individual situations. Yes, I mean, obviously the verse she quoted,
01:28:41: James 2 .10, it does go to the heart of the futility of trying to merit favor with God through your constant obedience.
01:28:57: If you think that you have achieved that, or you are ever going to achieve it, this kind of is a bucket of cold water in the face,
01:29:05: I think, to that person. Because, you know, if they keep the whole law and offend it just on one point, they're guilty of disobeying all of it.
01:29:19: So I think that there is a good point to be made there. We have another anonymous listener who says, although I agree with both of you that our evangelism can neither be a social gospel that is only involved in caring for people's physical needs, and it cannot be a religion that is only pounding truth into the heads of the lost, at the same time, should we not at times be patient and slow in how we develop our conversations with certain lost people, where we gradually begin to unfold the
01:30:03: Scriptures to them and first seek to win their attention by doing good to them?
01:30:11: That's a great question. In fact, you know who it reminds me of? Your friend, who
01:30:16: I have had on this program several times, Rosaria Butterfield, how she was won to Christ by the grace of God through the love and compassion of a
01:30:31: Presbyterian pastor and his wife. Well, I think your anonymous commenter made a good point that it can't be the social gospel alone, it can't be pounding in truth, and that for many people this slow and deliberate and Rosaria Butterfield type experience is what will bring people, but some people, and I know so many people that I've been confronted by one single
01:31:01: Scripture, and it causes everything else to start falling apart and causes them to re -evaluate.
01:31:10: So, again, it's very individualistic. I mean, you think about Paul on the road to Damascus, and how long was the confrontation of Jesus Christ with him to get him to completely re -evaluate everything?
01:31:26: But some people are open to that kind of direct confrontation.
01:31:32: In this, I believe the Holy Spirit has to lead us, and we're told, you know, the apostles were told in Acts, and I think this is true for all of us, that even though it's good to prepare for such an encounter, we have to have the confidence that the
01:31:46: Holy Spirit will give us the words to speak in the moment that we need them. If we're, you know, if we're truly seeking relationships with the
01:31:56: Holy Spirit, with the Lord, as we do this, and not just going in with our checklist or our, you know, our whatever method we think we ought to push or not push.
01:32:11: I guess what you're hearing me say, and each of these people that ask the question, Andrew and Cindy, and a couple of anonymous people,
01:32:22: I'm urging you to let the Holy Spirit and your relationship with God guide you in these things, and not seek one -size -fits -all for anybody, because only, you know, only the
01:32:37: Lord knows the depth of people's hearts and what will reach them, and as you look at their faces, you know, their body language and other things, you can perceive that people have different needs and are going to respond in different ways.
01:32:56: Well, thank you, and by the way, I want to make sure our anonymous questioners realize this, if you are a first -time questioner, just like our first questioner today was a first -time questioner, if you are a first -time questioner, send us your full name and your full mailing addresses, and of course, you will not be, your identity will not be revealed on the air, of course, but if you send me your full name and full mailing address, you will receive a free, new,
01:33:32: New American Standard Bible, complements of the publishers of the NASB, and complements of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com.
01:33:42: We'll be shipping that Bible out to you if you're a first -time questioner, so submit that information to us as soon as possible.
01:33:50: We have RJ in Westchester County, who, in fact,
01:33:57: I am going to hold off on reading RJ's question until after our final break, because I don't want to interrupt you during answering
01:34:05: RJ, so we're going to go to our final break. It's going to be a lot more brief than the other breaks.
01:34:11: Please, if you are sending in a question, do it immediately, because we're rapidly running out of time. chrisarnson at gmail .com
01:34:18: is our email address, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name, at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.
01:34:26: Don't go away, we'll be right back. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here, excited to announce that my long -time friend,
01:34:47: Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading to Washington, D .C.
01:34:52: for the G3 Ministries Regional Conference on the theme, Just Thinking About the Bible. The conference will be held
01:34:58: Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th, and I'll be speaking along with Stephen Lawson, Josh Weiss, founder of G3 Ministries, and Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker, co -hosts of the
01:35:10: Just Thinking Podcast. To register, visit g3min .org, that's g3min .org,
01:35:17: and click on Events. Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible, nearby the conference venue in Washington, D .C.
01:35:25: So, join me and Chris Arnson, September 15th through the 17th in Washington, D .C.,
01:35:30: for the G3 Ministries Regional Conference. Register now, before they run out of seats, at g3min .org,
01:35:37: that's g3min .org. Stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while you're there.
01:35:54: I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology, Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.
01:36:03: Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the
01:36:11: Theology and Ethics of the Westminster Larger Catechism, titled Authentic Christianity, by Dr.
01:36:18: Joseph Morecraft. It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis, as well as historical and systematic theology.
01:36:31: Dr. Morecraft is Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.
01:36:42: For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com.
01:36:50: For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,
01:36:58: heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the
01:37:03: Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr. Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sends you.
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01:37:57: To find out more about this vital work worldwide, visit anchoredintruth .org.
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01:40:21: As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.
01:40:27: A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.
01:40:37: Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world.
01:40:45: They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship
01:40:51: God in spirit and truth. Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a
01:40:56: God -centered focus. Reading, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship performed with faith, joy, and sobriety.
01:41:11: Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace
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01:41:26: or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.
01:41:36: Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.
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01:42:15: I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s. And what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.
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01:42:44: Please visit us at truthloveparent .com. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor.
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01:46:10: Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the
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01:48:20: Attention all men in ministry leadership. You're all invited to my friend Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon, Thursday, September 22nd, 11 a .m.
01:48:31: to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, featuring me,
01:48:36: James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, your keynote speaker. Not only will you enjoy a wonderful time of fellowship with your colleagues and ministry over a delicious meal, but you'll also receive dozens of free brand new books donated by Christian publishers all over the
01:48:51: United States and the United Kingdom, personally selected by Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:48:58: So if you're a pastor, an elder, a deacon, a parachurch leader, or any other man in ministry leadership, please register for the
01:49:05: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon today by calling 631 -291 -7002, 631 -291 -7002, or by visiting ironsharpensironradio .com,
01:49:23: ironsharpensironradio .com. This is James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, hoping to see you Thursday, September 22nd, 11 a .m.
01:49:31: to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, for Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon.
01:49:47: Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in. Our guest for the entire program has been and will continue to be
01:49:56: Dr. Latane C. Scott, author of The Mormon Mirage, discussing, a former
01:50:02: Mormon discusses the unique challenges of reaching the spiritually homeless who flee from the outreach of Christians after the devastation of being misled and harmed by a cult.
01:50:11: If you have a question, send it in immediately to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, because we're rapidly running out of time.
01:50:18: We had RJ in Westchester County, New York, who says,
01:50:24: I know that it is our duty as Christians, as you have said repeatedly, to evangelize and preach the gospel to the lost, but what do you do when a family friend or loved one tells you in no uncertain terms, please stop evangelizing me, please stop preaching the
01:50:44: Bible to me. If you want to maintain a close relationship with me, you're going to respect my wishes and not do that anymore.
01:50:53: Do we obey that request? I'm assuming the question is for me and not for you,
01:51:01: Chris. Yes, I'm assuming that all the questions that come in are for you. Okay, okay,
01:51:07: I just wanted to make sure. I would respect their wishes. Yeah, I agree, because obviously, you know, nothing's even going to be registering you, and it's going to be viewed as an act of cruelty or an insult to just bombard them after you've already been told don't do it.
01:51:28: One of the things that obviously makes life more difficult and is perhaps even more of a hurtful experience is that I know people,
01:51:40: I know parents, for instance, whose children abandoned the faith, and they warn the grandparents or their own parents, do not speak about Christ and the
01:51:55: Bible to my children. If you ever intend to babysit them, enjoy time with them alone,
01:52:03: I don't want you ever speaking about Christ and the Bible to them. I guess that's something that we should obey their wishes to, although it's a very painful thing and counterintuitive to a
01:52:16: Christian's heart and mind, but would you agree that we're not supposed to do that either? I would respect their wishes.
01:52:26: Yeah, and I pray frequently for those
01:52:32: I know who are in that horrible circumstance. Well, Latane, I want to make sure that you right now have several minutes of uninterrupted time where you want to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today in regard to this subject that we've been discussing.
01:52:51: I think it's very important that when you ask someone to give up something that they have dearly loved or held tight to, that you have to, although you can't compensate, a human being cannot compensate for the loss of faith in something as complete as Mormonism, as comprehensive and explanatory as Mormonism.
01:53:16: Sometimes it's just the human being being there who may not know the doctrines or anything else, but who can exemplify the promise of Jesus to never leave us for forsaken.
01:53:31: If there's one thing I could tell people about evangelism and evangelizing
01:53:36: Mormon, it is that your own witness of your own satisfaction in your life with the
01:53:43: Lord is going to speak volumes to them. You do not believe that's possible outside of Mormonism.
01:53:54: It's true that, from my research, that most people who leave
01:54:01: Mormonism do not become Christians. They become atheists or agnostics.
01:54:11: I'm not sure there is a single way to prevent that from happening with the associates that each individual has who's listening to this story being told here as we're describing the situation here in the show.
01:54:31: And it goes back, Chris, to whether or not you yourself really have that relationship.
01:54:37: I mean, Jesus said, he was talking to the
01:54:43: Jews, he said, why would you go across the ocean and drag people into a form of thought that would make them even more a son of hell than they were before?
01:54:55: The same thing is the question that you've got to ask yourself is, am I really at peace with God?
01:55:02: Do I really have confidence in his word? Do I really trust him? Do I really have, and this is a dangerous thing to say, but do
01:55:10: I really have unconditional faith? Because that's the only kind of faith that he really ultimately accepts.
01:55:18: We can't fix others if that's not fixed in ourselves. One of the things that I'm doing,
01:55:26: Chris, that is completely apart from my writing novels and other things is I teach classes on how to help people understand that faith can be mapped.
01:55:36: You can map your faith. There's a biblical precedent for mapping your faith, and I want to teach people how to do that.
01:55:44: The people who have taken my courses and have raved about them, say their lives have been changed.
01:55:50: I have endorsements from professional counselors that say this is going to revolutionize the way that I counsel people.
01:55:59: I know that we didn't set out to talk about this, and I feel the
01:56:05: Holy Spirit moving me to say that, but I have information.
01:56:10: I have strategies, and I have a biblical pathway for the listener who's listening who doesn't have that unconditional faith in God and doesn't know how to get it.
01:56:25: So, if there's anything I want people to know is your faith has to be authentic before you try to lead somebody else into replicating your faith.
01:56:38: If you're a person of little faith, what do you have to offer to someone who is sitting on the ruins of their love for something that has been betrayed?
01:56:58: We have time for one more question. BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania wants to know, are you available for speaking engagements and conferences for women at various churches and other organizations?
01:57:14: I have done that in the past. I am open to thinking about it, but my ministry of teaching is so all -encompassing right now that it's unlikely, but I'd love to have someone contact me.
01:57:30: My email is latayne .com. L -A -T -A -Y -N -E at latayne .com.
01:57:41: Latayne, as always, it has been a joy and a blessing. I am so thrilled that our friendship has persevered for decades, even before I had my own radio program.
01:57:56: I just look forward to your every visit to this program as a guest.
01:58:02: I look forward to your next one and hope that there are many more. I want to thank you for being such an extraordinary guest.
01:58:08: I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write. I want to let you know that my dear friend,
01:58:18: Pastor Vinnie Sawyer, is going to be my guest tomorrow on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:58:26: Vinnie and I go back to the 1990s, the early 1990s, when
01:58:34: I actually, even before I orchestrated a a program on WMCA radio, where I used to work, called the
01:58:46: Fundamental Baptist Forum, which was featuring quite a number of different fundamentalist
01:58:52: Baptist speakers, some of them who stabbed me in the back, but as far as what they said on the air about their differences with me on theology.
01:59:03: But I have a thick skin, but Vinnie never did that. Vinnie's always been a dear friend, and he is a pastor now in Florida.
01:59:13: He was formerly a well -known Baptist pastor in Flushing, Queens, New York, and is currently pastoring in Florida, and I hope that I get to pay a visit to that church sometime when traveling, my next time
01:59:32: I'm traveling through Florida. Victory Baptist Church in Port St.
01:59:39: Charlotte, I'm sorry, not St., Port Charlotte, Florida. Victory Baptist Church in Port Charlotte, Florida.
01:59:47: He is going to be addressing biblical marriage tomorrow, so I hope that you tune in. And I want you all to always remember, for the rest of your lives, that Jesus Christ is a far greater