January 26, 2021 Show with Jim Osman on “God Doesn’t Whisper: Is God Trying to Speak to You Through Signs, Impressions, Subtle Promptings or a Still, Small Voice?”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 26th

day of January 2021.

I'm thrilled to have back on the program a returning guest.

His name is Jim Osmond, and he is pastor and preaching elder of Kootenai

Community Church in Kootenai, Idaho.

And today we are addressing his new book with a forward from John MacArthur, God

Doesn't Whisper.

And the theme basically is going to be covering the questions, is God trying to speak to you

through signs, impressions, subtle promptings, or a still small voice?

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Jim Osmond.

Thank you, Chris.

I sure appreciate the opportunity to partner with you in this broadcast.

Thank you.

Hey, the pleasure is all mine, brother.

And joining me as a co -host today to interview Pastor Jim is one of my

favorite guests of all time.

In fact, I'm looking forward to having him back on the program for part two of a discussion on

false prophecies for 2021, which we began

a couple of weeks ago with Andrew Rappaport of Striving for Eternity Ministries.

But it is my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Justin Peters of Justin Peters

Ministries.

Chris, it's an honor to be back.

Well, I appreciate you at very short notice agreeing to co -host this program

with me, and I am very excited about our discussion today.

Before we get into the discussion, Pastor Osmond, can you tell us about Kootenai Community Church in Kootenai, Idaho?

Yeah, Kootenai Community Church is a small church up to

the late 1970s, early 1980s,

and I am only

the third...

Praise God.

And if anybody wants more information about Kootenai Community Church in Kootenai, Idaho,

you can go to their website, K -O -O -T -E -N, as in Nancy, A

-I, church .org.

That's K -O -O -T -E -N -A -I, church .org.

And God willing, if I remember, I'll be repeating that information later on in the program.

So this is a, I think, a very much needed book in our day and age,

Pastor Osmond, and the church owes you a debt for writing it.

In fact, I am going to read Justin Peters' endorsement for it,

and Justin Peters is our co -host today, but since I have his quote right in front of me, I figured I'd read it.

Many teach that God is whispering private revelations to his people.

The spiritual harm and theological mischief spawned by this errant doctrine

is incalculable.

In God Doesn't Whisper, Jim Osmond has written what is, in my estimation, the

definitive work on the subject.

Read this book carefully, consider its arguments, and rest in the sufficiency of scripture.

I simply cannot recommend this book highly enough.

And coming from somebody of the caliber of Justin Peters, especially because of the

focus of his ministry, that is some powerful endorsement, if I do say so.

Yeah, it certainly is.

And he used a very key word here, or phrase, the sufficiency of scripture,

because that is really at the crux of what we are discussing today.

It's really at the crux of the issue, and the reason why I say this is that

there are many people who believe in sola scriptura.

They believe that the scriptures are the only

infallible, inerrant rule of faith over the church today.

We don't have apostles receiving divine revelation and so on.

But there are many who claim to embrace

and defend and declare sola scriptura but in the

practice of their lives and the function of their congregations,

they really are not, and perhaps this is something that they are unconscious of,

but they are not really believing in and depending upon the sufficiency of scripture.

Would you say that I'm right on that?

Yeah, I certainly would.

And I think that many of the people that I quote in the book and critique, like Mark

Batters,

they believe in

the sufficiency of the

Bible, is the inerrant and fallible word of God.

A method of hearing from God

in a paradigm

of theology that advocates sola

scriptura, because if we were to say this to any of these

other mission -making or in our day -to -day

lives and would all advocate a method of hearing from God, that

is not

Henry Blackaby, you

are...

Yeah, that's

something.

And the reason why this is an important issue to discuss is because there

is even difference of opinion and confusion amongst

those that would consider themselves staunch cessationists.

We are not only dealing with a problem that the wild -eyed,

fringe, lunatic, word -of -faith frauds are

declaring and promoting.

There are even within our circles of theology, reformed theology, where you have...

Of course, you do have charismatic folks who are theologically reformed in the soteriology.

But I'm speaking of reformed cessationists.

There is a question mark, there's a misunderstanding or a

confusion or an unsettledness on how to approach certain issues

when it comes to this whole topic, and we'll, I'm sure,

at some point, get involved in more specifics on this.

But also, I want to remind my co -host, Justin Peters, since I cannot see you, since you are on the phone, you're not in the

studio with me, I can't see you waving your hand, I can't see facial expressions,

just when you sense a lull in the conversation, if you have a question, or if you even

want to add something to what Pastor Jim Osmond has said, feel free to chime in

immediately, you don't have to wait for me to call upon you.

But first of all, what was it that compelled you to write this book, since there have been works

already written by opponents of new revelation,

extra -biblical revelation, the charismatic movement, the Pentecostal movement, there have been

critiques written before, even the brother in Christ, who is one of

my modern -day heroes, John MacArthur, wrote a book called Charismatic Chaos,

and he had a conference on a strange fire and wrote a book that related

to that whole issue, but if you could, what was the compelling reason you wrote this book?

Well, I wanted to put it, the Lord led

me, and I

had a feeling, I felt

the Lord prompting me, God gave me an impression,

that language is just so much of

modern evangelicalism,

but

in my book,

I'm a

Daoist

theologian, years ago.

Now, perhaps we should make sure that our terms are clear for our discussion today.

Uh, there are those that are charismatic, or

at least continuationists, or continuists, or non -cessationists,

who insist they don't believe that they are receiving new

revelation from God when they speak in what they

believe is an unknown tongue or an angelic tongue, uh, since they themselves

don't even know what this language is saying.

Uh, some of them will use this as a private devotional prayer

language and so on, so that there are, there are, there are differences even amongst those that

would be continuationists, or continuists, or charismatics, or Pentecostals.

Uh, in fact, I even recall, I can't remember his name right now.

Oh, in fact, as I was speaking to you, and I looked it up, uh, I did

find the book.

Um, there is a book that was written some time ago,

uh, by Robert Lee Whitworth, and I believe

Pastor Whitworth is a Pentecostal, and yet he wrote a book,

uh, titled An Exposé on the Word of Knowledge as it is

being misused today.

Uh, so you have those that would be in agreement with you to a degree, but not

necessarily, uh, the whole package.

So, uh, what specifically are you talking about when we are

delving into this subject today?

Are you talking about the cessationists?

The whole issue of, uh, that, that we are not to be guided by...

The methodology?

Yes.

Yeah, the methodology.

So, I, I take issue with fear

from God outside Scripture, that God, God is needing and wanting to

communicate.

We can't know God's will.

We can't, you know, be fawning to prompt

Him.

He sends our way as if, uh, God is trying to lead us down the path of

life by dropping breadcrumbs, tea leaves, and, and make

decisions on the basis of things.

...from God outside Scripture.

God, you're not hearing the voice of the

shepherd.

You're either intentionally, unintentionally, um, ignorant or disobedient because you're not listening for it.

And then third assumption has been engage in, or, or, and

that it, it all

involves listening to God

from...many of the common

methodologies that are employed.

You hear people talk about hearing the still small voice, which is kind of a catch -all phrase,

a nudging, a word that what they think is an R around in their

cranium that they attribute to be the voice of God.

Um, I talk about the people say, you know, I was struggling with whether

or not I should get involved in children's ministry.

That was the Lord telling me that, yes, I should be involved in

children's ministry.

And so I prayed about it and, and God gave me a peace deep in my heart.

And so we're supposed to be led by the peace.

And, and since I had a peace about it, I felt that that was the voice of God.

You know, they say, God opened a door here and He closed the door there.

And therefore this must be the will of God.

Um, some sort of might

be a license plate or a bumper sticker thing

that they should do.

Jack Deere even talks about God speaking to him through the lyrics of a country music song.

The idea that they pray about something and say, God, if it's your will that I do this, like Gideon, you don't make this happen.

And if it's your will that I do the other than make this happen.

And so then they think that that is God's determination of which one they should do that God is obligated.

And thus, once he reveals his will through the police

and, uh, and other people say they had,

they had a dream or a vision

in a dream.

So those are some of the methodologies that a lot of people just use the language.

I felt hurt.

And they take these things, the nudges, impressions,

and giving them guidance outside.

And all of these things, of course, are apologies, not derived

on the meaning of the

scriptural.

Go

ahead.

A

small voice

in and

for cave.

And then it

says that Elijah heard a still small voice for skin.

The ESV

transit

translates

it a low

whisper, still small voice.

And, uh, it's

not

Henry Block could be a

Priscilla in the old Testament.

That exact phrase, the NIB,

uh, the NASB says the sound of a gentle, all the voice or a soft whisper or a low voice or a

murmuring sound

is evidence

depression

or a

nudging

his own head or

heart

to him audibly and

clearly

kind of indeterminate impressions that they get, that they think could be from God or

could be errant.

They're not quite sure about it, but this is God trying to speak to them in some sort of a whisper

that, and they use, they use Elijah as the, let me

throw at Elijah

elsewhere before,

sorry, before that,

before

that Elijah

really

exactly

what God was saying.

Now, let me throw something at you.

Uh, that's, that happened to me recently.

And I'm not asking you this as if I think that you're omniscient and know exactly what this means necessarily,

but I am not the kind of guy and I've met people who are like this,

who can't wait to tell you about a dream that they had and they import into it some

very important spiritual significance.

Uh, but even though I'm not that kind of a guy, a number of weeks ago,

I had a dream about a classmate of mine in elementary school.

Uh, and he was also, uh, a classmate of mine in high school.

And I haven't thought about this individual, uh, in many years.

The last time I think I even thought about him was when I bumped into him somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 years ago in a

restaurant.

And I had a dream about this, uh, individual and it was a vague dream.

I don't even really remember the substance of the dream.

And I woke up from the dream, uh, looking at texts that I

had received.

And I had a text that my friend had gone home

to heaven and, uh, he had died, uh, apparently

before I had this dream.

And I was just wondering, I was baffled by that.

I've had things like that happen a few times in my life that were uncanny.

Uh, the average person would call it a coincidence.

Uh, we know that God is in sovereign control over all things.

Nothing happens, uh, by accident to God.

But I think that sometimes the word coincidence is appropriate because the things that

are occurring don't necessarily have the importance or the meaning that we think they have.

But when something like that happens, how should I view that?

It could have God, because I didn't have any direct, uh, teaching about

this in my dream.

I wasn't some kind of, you know, a new teaching or theology in this dream.

Could God have used this for some reason just to let me know to, or to remind me that,

yes, I am still God, I'm still here, et cetera.

And beyond that, I couldn't tell you.

But is this completely out of the realm of

appropriate thought amongst Christians who are Biblicists and

cessationists?

Yeah, I, the way I handle experience

that we just think maturating the

events of

this world,

the timing was more than just coincidentally meaning

that these incidents, um, so in, in the event

of your dream, what, what is

the died and

went to heaven?

And is it completely coincidental?

I'm not trying to tell you anything because God doesn't try to do

anything.

He just,.

He does, or he doesn't.

Excellent point.

Cause I was going to bring that up and, and I was going to bring that up because of your title or, uh, actually not near

the title, but in the description of your book, uh, I was going to say, does God try to do anything?

Yeah, no, I don't think he does.

There's,

there's our

vague impression

because then

it

may be just that God is reminding you that,

yeah, he's the

giver.

He would, if he

wanted to God

or names

that occur trying to get our

attention.

And when we come back, I want

to ask Justin

Peters a quick.

Question because he can only spend an hour with us.

So, uh, Justin, and in fact, you can ponder this question while we have a break here.

Uh, I want you to, uh, let our listeners know why you think this is such a vital

issue we're discussing, because there are many people who think that we are doing nothing more than

inciting, uh, sectarianism and, uh,

division and, and, uh, nastiness and bigotry and all these

kinds of things into the Christian faith by bringing up something prominent that divides us

sharply.

So, uh, when we come back, Justin, since you have to leave in, in the not so distant future, uh,

I'd like you to address that and then we'll continue our, our questions, uh, with Pastor Rosman.

If anybody wants to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarmson at gmail

.com.

Chrisarmson at gmail .com.

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We are now back with our discussion with Pastor Jim Osman, who is the author

of the book we are discussing today, and that book is titled God Doesn't Whisper,

and we have with us as a co -host, at least for the first hour, and he has to leave shortly,

Justin Peters of Justin Peters Ministries, and as you may recall, Justin, before the break, I asked you to let our

audience know why you think this is such a vital issue.

This is an issue that takes up a very large percentage

of your main mission with Justin Peters Ministries, so why don't you tell our listeners about why it's.

So

important.

The

Lord,

simply

because

they're

not

hearing

the

vision,

they

start

to

give

their

dreams.

Excellent.

Well, Jim, obviously there are many people, well -intentioned people,

who want to keep hearing the voice of God, and in fact, it's

somewhat humorous and tragic at the same time.

There is a very liberal leftist apostate church in my

community here in Pennsylvania, and they have a sign, a big sign outside that said, God is

still speaking, and every time I pass it, my first thought is, yes, and he's calling you

heretics, and he wants you to repent, but

people want to continue that belief, perpetuate that belief,

that God is still speaking in a fresh way, in an extra -biblical way, because in their mind,

it solidifies and coincides with the truth that God is not dead,

God is still existing, He's still functioning and operating, we're not deists,

we don't believe in a cold, aloof, distant God who is just watching

the world that He wound up like a clock and set into motion, and He's not just a spectator

sitting there watching.

So, people think, and I think that this is also true with the entire

charismatic phenomenon, the healing and the tongues, people want to

perpetuate this because they believe that this is what involves

us in history in the Christian church, they get excited

about the fact that we are, when we

demonstrate and tell the world, or tell at least those around us, that

we are having dreams, that we are having visions, it is

giving us a role in God's continuing functioning

in this world that we live in, and we don't need new

revelation to do that, do we?

No, we don't.

In fact, one of the two.

Responses that I typically get when I teach, I get

one of two responses,

one of

the only Christians who wasn't hearing God speak to him audibly, and I doubted my salvation, as

Justin mentioned, or I just felt like I wasn't as close to Him because I

wasn't hearing God tell me,

so thank you for putting on me that I should be expecting this, and hearing this regularly.

The second response I get is from people, and now I

have believed, and He guides me

each and every day, He's so

close, it's all unbiblical, that's all nonsense, and so now I feel like you've

taken away from me my personal relationship with the

devotion when you challenge them that God's

people make sometimes, is thinking

that you've taken away from them, and I'm suggesting that you still

have mediated through Scripture, that is where God

speaks, and you are reading

the Word of God and understanding its meaning, that is the voice of God, and that's all you need for life and Godliness.

He has already provided that, and we don't need

to have the hand of God in our lives.

We ought to be able to see God supernaturally work, and through Scripture,

and in my life.

Who's the

more spiritual to see the supernatural,

the ordinary things in life,

that God is

always working,

and we don't

need.

We have an

anonymous listener who says,.

How do you believe providence plays a role in understanding the will of

God in particular circumstances that are not spelled out in detail in the Scriptures?

For instance, if you have fallen in love, or at least have become

infatuated with a woman that you would like to marry, and you are praying for God's

guidance on whether you should pursue her, to court her, and propose to her, and

then she begins to manifest things that you find to be unattractive or

ungodly, and you know as a result that this is not the woman for you.

Perhaps she begins to curse, or perhaps she begins to behave in a way that she didn't behave before

you prayed, and she is revealing to you that you must move on and find someone

else if the Lord has someone for you.

How do we describe this as far as providence that occurs in our life?

The key thing is that the person is saying when we pray for God to.

Reveal to us about a certain person and so on.

Yeah, so God can make, I think, see things that

maybe we

would not

necessarily honor in

situations

where we see

things

that we normally

would

not

have seen to us.

That's all part of what I would say it means for God to do.

So that's his scenario that he laid out there is entirely in keeping

with providentially how God works.

You know, we pray for an opportunity to do something, and that opportunity may never come to fruition.

I've known men who have prayed for opportunities to go into ministry, and they're still waiting for those opportunities, and yet God has not

providentially directed

their

steps.

And I.

Know that Justin Peters has to...

Do you have another question you'd like to ask before you.

Leave,

Justin?

Yeah, yeah.

And

Justin,

we'll have Jim answer that when we come back from our.

Midway break, because we have to go to our break right now, and I guess we're saying goodbye to you because you have to leave.

So perhaps you could listen to Jim's answer on the internet.

Okay.

Because I understand you have to leave now, correct?

I do.

Okay, well, I want to give your website to our listeners.

It's justinpeters .org, justinpeters .org.

Thank you so much, Justin, for participating in at least half of our program today.

God bless you, too.

And we'll have Pastor Jim Osmond answer that question about my sheep hearing my

voice, the words of Christ, after we return from our midway break.

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Don't go away, God willing, we'll be right back, right after these messages from our sponsors.

Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World

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I'm Dr. Tony

Costa, Professor of Apologetics and.

Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church

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Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them.

From Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens

Iron.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005.

The publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, president and professor of systematic and.

Homiletical theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylor, South Carolina,

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Here's what Gary DeMar, president of American Vision, had to say about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

recently.

Good to be back, Chris.

I always enjoy our time.

I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for more

than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment.

How much do I owe you for that?

Uh, you don't have to owe me anything.

We're in good shape.

I'm glad you said it on the air, so I don't have to brag about myself.

Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, airing live Monday through Friday, 4 to

6 p .m. Eastern time at ironsharpensironradio .com.

Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions,

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Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385

-8333, that's 631 -385

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We are excited to announce another new member of the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio advertising family,

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I'm a pharmacist in New York, which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through.

In Psalm 139, verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this,.

I praise you because I'm fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows

very well.

He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness, and the beauty in what God has

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In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust God's

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When the whole world is searching for a solution, God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to

address this which can be very serious.

Such is the beauty of his design.

Knowing that design, how can we not add up and praise to our great God like the psalmist did?

May God bless you and give all of.

Us wisdom to see greater things in his design. Thank you.

Linbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl.

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Our church is.

Far more than a Sunday worship service.

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Call Linbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599

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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American

Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience.

Have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at the Toronto Baptist Seminary, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Jeff.

Downs of Knox Reform Presbyterian Church in Mechanicsville, Virginia, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Mark Romaldi of Grace Reform Baptist Church of Long Island in Merritt, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice.

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the NASB is my Bible of choice.

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I'm Pastor Andrew Smith of Christ Reformed Community Church in St. Augustine, Florida, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Clint Leiter of High William Chapel, Sedalia,.

Missouri, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

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Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never.

Reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Welcome back, and remember folks,.

Solid -ground -books .com is a vital, a premier, a

primary sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Without their financial support through their advertising campaigns, we would likely not

exist any longer, barring a miracle from God financially.

So, we ask of you, please, to support solid -ground -books .com as often as you

can, and they have a wide selection of the finest in Christian literature

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-ground -books .com frequently and purchase generously, and always remember to tell them that you heard about them from Chris

Arnzen on Iron Trump and Zion Radio.

We just have a few more announcements to make before we return to our discussion with Jim Osmond.

First of all, folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, I'm

urging you, please go to irontrumpandzionradio .com, click support, then click, click to

donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing so.

You can also send in a check the old -fashioned way via snail mail, if you prefer that, to the address, the

physical address that will appear on your screen when you click support at irontrumpandzionradio .com.

You can also advertise with us as long as whatever it is you are promoting is compatible with what we believe.

You don't have to believe identically with me, but you need to be promoting something that's compatible with what I believe.

So, if that is the case, send me an email to chrisarnzen at gmail .com and put advertising in the

subject line.

We certainly do need your advertising dollars quick.

Folks, we are in an urgent need of your financial support.

The hysteria connected with the coronavirus pandemic has really hurt

many people in our audience financially and, therefore, it has hurt us financially

because our donations have gone down and our advertising has gone down.

So, please help us if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear.

Go to irontrumpandzionradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

Remember, folks, I don't want people siphoning money away from your regular giving that you're accustomed to to your own

local church in order to give to Iron Trump and Zion Radio.

In other words, don't punish your own church financially by blessing us financially.

Also, if you are in financial peril already, don't put yourself in further financial

jeopardy by giving to Iron Trump and Zion Radio if you have a mountain of unpaid bills

and other things.

Just quite at this point, providing for your family and providing for your church are two commands of God.

Providing for Iron Trump and Zion Radio is not a command of God, obviously.

But, if you are blessed financially above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands of providing

for church and family, and you have extra money that you use for recreational purposes to go out

to dinner, to go to sporting events, to go to concerts, to go to Bible conferences,

all these other things that you use for recreation and entertainment, movies, the theater, well, please

use some of that money to help us remain on the air if, indeed, you love the show and you don't want it to disappear.

Go to irontrumpandzionradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

Also, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church, please send me an email.

I may be able to help you find a church.

I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the globe, and I've already helped many people in

all parts of the planet Earth find churches, sometimes within a few minutes of where they live, that they didn't even

know existed or that they didn't know were biblically sound churches.

So send me an email to chrisarnzion at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line if that fits

your category, or perhaps you are looking for a good church where you're going on vacation,

or you're looking for a church, a good solid biblical church for loved ones who are without a church home.

Whatever the case is, send me an email to chrisarnzion at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject

line.

Last but not least, if you want to go to the Vodie Baucom conference,

they may already be sold out.

There was only four tickets left yesterday, but in the event that they still have tickets left, send me an email to

chrisarnzion at gmail .com.

Chrisarnzion at gmail .com, and I will find out if there are any tickets left.

I will be manning an exhibitor's booth there this Thursday in Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania, for the

Vodie Baucom conference on critical race theory.

He is opposing that heresy.

He's exposing and refuting it this Thursday in Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania from

8 a .m. to 12 noon, and as I said, I will be there manning an exhibitor's booth.

If you want to go, and I'll find out if they have any more tickets left, send me an email as quickly as you can to

chrisarnzion at gmail .com, and I will let you know if they have any tickets left.

That's also the email address where you could send a question to our guest, Jim Osman, on what we are

discussing today, God Doesn't Whisper, his new book, which is basically

a book refuting the notion that we still have extra -biblical divine revelation in our day,

and the email address is chrisarnzion at gmail .com, chrisarnzion at gmail

.com.

Jim, I'm sure you remember Justin Peters, who was co -hosting with me in the first hour but had to

leave.

Before he left, he brought up the fact that he said that either non -cessationists,

continuationists, continuous charismatics, Pentecostals, or anyone who uses

still small voices as a guide to their lives, or any other kind of voices,

or so -called revelations, they will quote from John 10, verse 27, where

Christ says, My sheep hear my voice, and I know them.

How do you respond to people who use that verse in that way?

Yeah, that's actually part of the

verse there in John 10.

There's a reference to it in verse 4 as well, when Jesus said, when he puts forth all

his... because they know his voice.

And so often, hearing the voice of God's

teachers, I must bring them also, and they'll

hear my voice, and they'll

be... and they use those...

regular communication... and

they recognize the shepherd's voice.

And the key to that passage is found in verse 6,

where there

John is telling a speech, he's not talking about...

instead, Jesus would have been...

Israel shouldn't use

Palestine...

spend the night with the sheep.

In the morning, the shepherd

would gather...

describing their...

arriving there, not actual hearing in any

way, but his own... says,

all that the Father

gives me will come to me,

and the one who comes to me, I will certainly not cast out.

He... when he prays for those whom the Father had given to

him, the ability... their believers... daily lives...

into the Pharisees, actually is a reproof to the Pharisees, because they are

the ones who were addressed by the Good Shepherd discourse.

You go up into chapter 9, which was the healing of the man born blind, and then Jesus confronted the Pharisees

at the end of that chapter, and the continuation of that confrontation is that Good Shepherd discourse...

sees why it is that the man born blind came to him, and they won't... they couldn't... they

couldn't believe in him.

They would not believe in him.

And Jesus explains their unbelief in verse 26, when he says, you do not believe because you're not of my sheep.

The Father had given you to me, and you would believe, but you do

not believe because you don't belong to me.

You don't belong to me because the Father hasn't given you to me, therefore you're... you're not my sheep, and therefore you don't believe.

Whereas the man born blind had believed, not because of any inherent ability in him, but because he belonged to...

that's what the analogy is describing.

It's not describing personal revelations.

It's describing salvation, and people who use that passage,

and hearing his voice and nudgings

of them about

how to interpret vague signs...

You know, I...

I am immediately transported.

By... or should I say, to Luke chapter 16,

19 through 31, about... which refers to the

rich man and Lazarus.

And the rich man is in hell, and

he is basically convinced that a miracle of some kind, some kind of

a manifestation, is going to lead his siblings to the truth,

and in particular, that miracle is the resurrection

of Lazarus, to go to his family,

his five brothers specifically.

And he says to Abraham, I beg you, Father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have

five brothers.

Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.

Abraham replied, They have Moses and the prophets.

Let them listen to them.

And the rich man says, No, Father Abraham, he said, but if someone from the

dead goes to them, they will repent.

He said to them, If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be convinced, even if someone rises

from the dead.

So there you have the Bible, and in that sense, it was obviously the

Hebrew Scriptures that was sufficient to

lead men to repentance.

And even something as amazing and as radical

and as phenomenal and miraculous as

a dead person rising from the dead, that is not even going to convince

someone unless they are going to believe the Scriptures.

It not only approves the sufficiency of Scripture, it also, I think, is a

proof of particular redemption, unconditional election, because the idea

that a man, a human's free will

can be convinced to lead them to a saving faith in Christ,

that their free will that they were born with, not the

free will that comes from a new heart given by Christ, but the free will that they

allegedly innately possess, can conjure up a faith and a repentance that

is pleasing to God, that we see that that is false.

Am I making sense here?

Yeah, absolutely.

If you saw that miracle, went and told the Pharisees, and their

response was not, wow, that's,

man, if we let them go on like this, and the Romans will come and take away our place in

this plot to kill Jesus, because it was better for one man to die than the line

of Lazarus, raised from the dead, did not convince

any of the Jews were

going away and believing in Jesus.

The problem with the Pharisees, and I said this when I preached through the Gospel of John, unbelief is never due to a lack of

evidence.

It's always from that love for darkness.

We need a change of heart,

a change of mind.

By the way, I

think I forgot to

tell our.

Anonymous listener earlier, you have won a free copy of God Doesn't Whisper,

compliments of our guest today, Jim Osmond, and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service,

cvbbs .com, who will actually be shipping it out to you at no charge to you or to Iron

Radio, so please make sure you give me your full name and address so that cvbbs

.com can ship it out to you as soon as possible, and obviously, since you requested it to remain anonymous, your

identity will not be revealed, so don't worry about that.

Just send me your full name for the shipping purposes and your full address.

We have Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, and he asks

something that I should have asked in the very beginning of the show, but what do you mean by whispering

in your title, God Doesn't Whisper?

Well, that might be

one of the

ways that you're

near to one another.

Then you can hear my whispers.

Well, that's why God

whispers to us.

They say that

the nudging that we

receive, somebody, you know, thinking of a voice in the middle of

your head while you're praying for someone else or driving down the street

to send some money to

Africa, what's God trying to tell you there?

And is

God like

Mark

Patterson?

I could never understand,

even as a new Christian,.

When I would watch the 700 Club and Pat Robertson would be getting

his so -called words of knowledge, and this is supposed to be the Holy Spirit communicating

with him, and yet it is a very fuzzy message that he is getting,

which also, I think, goes back to our issue

before that we were talking about, that God doesn't try to do anything, and

it also goes back to what you were just saying about whispering.

It's not a clear, bold voice that Pat Robertson is receiving.

He's sitting there saying, I see a woman, I believe she is wearing, if

I'm not mistaken, a purple dress sitting on a plaid couch, I

think, and she has some kind of a mass, I think it

is in her left lung, and I always thought, why on earth, if he is receiving a

message from God, the third person of the Godhead, what is

the signal in his house, poor reception to God, or in his studio,

I should say, is the wiring or the fluorescent lights in the building,

in the studio, causing some kind of static with the Holy Spirit?

Does that make any sense at all?

Did God ever communicate in the Scriptures with people where it was a very vague and uncertain.

Message?

Yeah, well, that's one of the things that's in detail in the book.

Charles Stanley makes the point that God has always been a communicative

God, and so just as God spoke and

continues to speak

today.

But yet, when you compare

each today,

it's

supposed

to be infallible, and for

anybody except for that person, if that person can get the message right, and

it has to be a confirmed voice from God.

We have to put out a fleece to confirm that this is the voice of God.

Does he want us to go this way or that way?

We have to check it against Scripture.

This entire methodology that is promoted by hearing from God advocates.

And Harrison Mechanicsburg, give me your full mailing address, because you have also won God Doesn't Whisper

by Jim Osmond, compliments of Pastor Jim, and also compliments of cvbbs

.com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, who will ship that out to you when we get your address there.

We have, let's see here, Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania,

and Joseph says, I have often heard cessationists say that if

charismatics are really getting new revelation from God, we should staple it right next

to the book of Revelation in our Bibles.

Have you ever heard a response from a charismatic to that very statement or

question to them?

Yeah, typically charismatics will today, but it's

not infallible and inerrant.

Really?

God is giving today.

Yeah, some of them would say that, like, for instance,

he

can be a reformation.

Those guys

would say

revelation on revelation today.

And what I like to point out to people is

that what makes Scripture

written down, because God speaks it, it

has those qualities by necessity, it must be authoritative, it must be infallible, and it must be inerrant, because God

can never speak.

My question to the

charismatics is, how is it possible that God speaking today

does not speak in a way that does not, and

they might want to say, well, God is, we might misunderstand

today, but again, it goes back to what the

Scripture is communicating.

Is he trying to get something through to us?

Does he ever speak and what he was saying?

And so, you know, they might have gotten it right.

None of that characterizes what we find in Scripture.

When God speaks it.

Yeah, if anything is

going to lend doubt to the.

Inerrancy of Scripture, it's the idea that people

receiving divine revelation can get it wrong, because that's why we have the

Scriptures.

They came from divine revelation, so it's just...

Yeah, and God has the power to ensure that not only does he speak clearly, but he has the power,

he intends to hear him, we'll also hear him clearly.

And that's also an example of somebody.

Thinking that God tried to do something that failed, because he tried to give a word to a

prophet, a word so important that it wasn't specifically contained in the Scriptures.

And yet, the person is messing it up.

I'm sorry if I'm laughing, folks, but some of this is just so insane.

And it's sad, though, when it comes from somebody as brilliant as Wayne Grudem and

Sam Storms.

They are brilliant people.

They're not from the lunatic fringe of craziness.

In fact, perhaps you would be interested in doing this, or if you have a

recommendation.

I was contacted probably two years ago now, I can't remember how long ago it was, by

Sam Storms' publisher, asking me to interview him.

And I told them I would not interview him, but I would air a debate with him on tongues, because that was the

subject of his latest book, at least at that time.

So I would like to have a debate on my program with Sam over that issue.

And perhaps either if you are willing, or if you could find someone for me that you trust,

I'd love to hear about that after the show.

Let's see here.

We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who says, I

have heard from some cessationists that although they do not believe we should

add anything to the Bible, and that is a serious sin and heresy, at the same

time, we should not be misusing Revelation chapter 22, 18 in

order to teach that fact.

And that verse, as you know, says,.

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall

add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.

I have heard from even cessationists that that is specifically referring to the book of Revelation, not to the canon.

So how do you respond to that?

I've heard the same thing from people that are scholars who

know the biblical languages, and even though they are

cessationists, and they don't believe we can or should add to the canon, that that is a

misuse of that text.

What do you say about that?

Uh, well, ethically, John must have in mind

the word.

I don't know that John

could not have

known that what would be intended,

that would be at the end of the book.

But I do believe that providentially, and that warning right there,

I think that in intended

meaning, very narrowly in terms of Revelation, I

think in the spirit of God's intended meaning, and especially in the placement of that

book in our canon

from God's Word, that when God says that that is

a curse that applies to everything God has written,

not to read

of that warning.

There's another,

and I think

that that's not, and

you're saying that

he has spoken that, then you are claiming divine

revelation, something not in Scripture, God, by

doing that.

You're saying that God has spoken.

If that's what you believe that God has spoken, then again, you are adding to something that is inside

Scripture, and I think it's something.

Susan Margaret, thank

you for

the.

Excellent question, and you have also won a free copy of God Doesn't Whisper, which will be mailed to you by

CVBBS .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

Make sure we have your full mailing address.

We're going to our final break.

It's going to be a lot more brief than the last breaks, if indeed you have a question that you'd like to send in, send it in

immediately, because we are rapidly running out of time.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, and I will read for you, Pastor

Jim, an anonymous email, and then we'll have you respond to it when we come back.

The anonymous listener says, I have friends that were Muslims who converted to

Christ because of a dream or a vision they received,

allegedly from Christ himself, that convinced them that Jesus was indeed

the Messiah, and they do not continue to have extra -biblical revelations

now that they're Christians.

These were seemingly one -time events in their lives.

Can you explain this?

And we will have you respond to that when we come back from our last break.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens

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or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will

join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign Lord,

God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ, today and always.

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Linbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Linbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in

the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service.

It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

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Welcome back, and Pastor Jim, as you may recall, an anonymous listener said that personal

friends of his who were Muslims who converted to Christianity, that

conversion experience basically was initiated by a dream or a vision

of Christ identifying himself as the Messiah, and that is what led them to salvation,

and yet they were not, for the remainder of their Christian walk, ongoing

charismatics or people who heard voices and saw visions.

They, in some sense, were after that initial revelation allegedly

cessationists, for lack of better terminology there, but how do you respond to

those things when you hear about that?

In fact, I know of people who work extensively and primarily with Muslims

who say that the vast majority of people they know who are Muslims who convert have

heard a voice, saw a vision, or had a dream that was used by God, so if you could respond to that.

Yeah, that's something that.

Would take a lot more to that.

Well, before I do, let me

preface it with this.

I think that many of the stories

we're having experience that God

is using Muslims to salvage a

man dressed in white

and dealt

with, number one, God is

watching of the

gospel.

Paul said, how

will they hear

without a

priest, and

if God

loves

it, makes the

vision,

John

did,

Peter

did,

is

that the

fleshly

mind?

I

think

that many of the

experience...

Now, I

assume

that

you

have

an

openness

to the

possibility.

That many of these former Muslims are indeed born again and true believers, but they are

misunderstanding the things that they thought were supernatural that led them there.

Yeah, yeah, I would affirm that entirely.

I think that some of them are saved, so if they had a vision, even if it

was attempted demonic deception, that God can, in fact, use that for his purpose

in giving them the gospel, that what they're saying is actually the risen Christ.

I would have no reason to believe that.

In fact, I think that Paul was the last one.

In fact, I was invited.

Years ago to a Pentecostal church where there was a guest speaker who was a former Muslim,

and a part of his testimony was this vision he

saw allegedly because he had been staying in the

home of Christians who had a relationship with God that he had never witnessed as

a Muslim, where they were treating God and speaking to God as their Father, and

apparently he prayed that Allah would reveal

this Heavenly Father to him if indeed this

Father existed, and then Jesus appeared in the room.

Now, I immediately rejected this man's story because Jesus is not the Father.

Yeah, exactly.

Jesus is indeed God.

He's the second person of the Godhead, the second person of the Trinity, but he is not the Father.

But anyway, well, we have time for one more question here.

We have another anonymous listener.

A lot of anonymous listeners today.

The anonymous listener says that, how do you respond to

those who claim that new revelation is still possible today,

and they say that the difference between new revelation that is true and

claimed revelations that are false is that the false revelations contradict Scripture.

We have no reason to dismiss those things that confirm Scripture.

How do you respond to those statements?

Affirmed by Scripture.

If something Scripture already reveals, then we don't need the new revelation.

Why

would God give

them?

You said that God

can't speak to us today.

If he wanted to, I think that God certainly can, because I believe that God is sovereign.

I'm saying the Scripture doesn't teach that He does speak to us.

That is not

how Scripture says that God speaks.

These methods are man -made methods.

Nowhere promises us that God will speak to us today.

It says that God has spoken to us

in His Word, and it is sufficient for life and for godliness, and therefore nothing else is necessary.

So the issue is not what God can do or what He can't do.

I've often said, God can speak to me through a leprechaun in my refrigerator if He wanted to.

You just brought back some very unpleasant—.

God could do it.

You just brought back some very unpleasant St. Patrick's Day memories of mine before I was saved.

But anyway, thank you so much, Jim.

I'd like you to return to continue the same discussion if you are willing.

And if you could hold on when we go off the air, I'd like to book another interview with you, because we just scratched the

surface, I believe, of this topic.

And if anybody wants more information about the Kootenai Community Church in Kootenai, Idaho, where

our guest is the pastor, go to kootenaichurch .org, K

-O -O -T -E -N -A -I church .org.

And if you'd like to order the book that we have been discussing, God Doesn't Whisper, you can go to cvbbs

.com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com.

If they don't have it in stock, when you call them or go on their website, they will order it for you.

I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you

are a sinner.