Deliverance From Deliverance Ministries: A Biblical Critique

Freedom freedom right now freedom right now Freedom freedom freedom freedom.

Come out in the name of Jesus. Come out in the name of Jesus.

Right now right now.

Come out.

Shut up and come out.

Come out in the name of Jesus.

Right now.

You stop it right now In Jesus name Stop it Please. Can we decongest Get to loose the bonds of wickedness And to set the oppressed Free in Jesus mighty name. Shout yes.

Scripture says that a Christian Cannot be demonized. And if you admit that That a demon cannot possess Control or indwell a Christian Then the entire deliverance ministry Immediately vanishes. All of the need for it vanishes.

Hello ladies and gentlemen My name is Justin Peters. I hope that this finds you and your family doing well today. I want to thank you so much for joining me For this podcast. Deliverance ministries. They were really popular back in the 80's And 90's and then waned For a number of years.

But here in the last few years Have made a roaring comeback. And now we've got a whole new crop Of younger, hipper Demon slayers out there. And by the way that's not a pejorative They refer to themselves as demon slayers.

So their moniker Not mine But you've got guys like Greg Locke, you've got Alexander Pagani. You've got Mike Cignarelli. Isaiah Saldivar. Catherine Crick. Now Catherine Crick Is one of the most obvious Hucksters And charlatans out there.

I mean you would have to You would have to be blind Not to see that she is a Huckster. But Isaiah Saldivar interviewed her On his own channel not too long ago So he apparently Endorses her. So I mean these are Vlad Savchuk is another one.

And when you go to his YouTube channel He's got over 1 million. I think it's 1 .15 million Subscribers to his YouTube channel. That is an enormous Amount of subscribers. My channel by comparison Has a little over 200 ,000.

So you see The popularity Of these demon slayers. By the way I'm not jealous in the slightest Because I don't Envy them one day when they have to give An account for what they are doing To people but I'm getting ahead of myself.

So in this program I'm going To be interviewing Jim Osmond And Chris Rosebro Both of whom have done a lot of work In this subject. This video started Off. I envisioned it as a fairly short Video but it's turned into a longer one As you can probably tell.

And I will have general time stamps down below In the description to help you navigate A little bit. I do encourage you if you care about this Subject matter Watch the whole thing. We're going to cover A lot of ground.

We're going to ask some pretty tough questions. Can a Christian be demon possessed? They would say no. Can a Christian Have demons Residing inside of him or her? They say.

Yes.

Is there a difference? We're going to talk about that. Can a believer have demons inside of him or her? We're going to Talk about the theology Of deliverance Ministries. We're going to talk about the practical implications Of that and how it impacts Our sanctification and our growth in Christ.

We're going to talk about how this movement Tragically Leads people Into the very Spiritual bondage That it claims to extricate them from. It is truly Tragic and ironic. Ironically tragic. So we're going to talk about All of these things.

We're going to look at some of the proof texts that they use. The verses that they go to. See, a Christian can Have a demon inside of him. So we're going to talk about that. What about Peter, get behind me Satan.

What about Ananias and Sapphira. When Peter asked them in Acts chapter 5. Why has Satan Caused you, filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit. Ananias and Sapphira They're church members. Isn't that a good example?

We're going to talk about all of those I think this will be a really helpful Podcast For you. Yes it's long. Please stick through it. Towards the end of this video. Jim Osmond Is going to read from one of Alexander Pagani's books Secrets to Deliverance.

When you get to that section Let me just tell you You will not Believe What is written in his book. It is shocking. If you have young children You should probably Put them to bed.

Otherwise.

Have them doing something else. Fair warning You don't want to miss any of this. None of this. What we're about to talk about or show. None of it is to be salacious. Our heart I think you'll see this as we go through.

Our heart is to help people. We want to help people. They are being led into Spiritual bondage. I'll say this later in the video. I know that Most if not all of the Demon Slayers Will watch this video.

Pagani, Savchuk Greg Locke Signorelli Malachi O 'Brien Catherine Crick.

Who knows.

I do not hate you At all I love you But I love you enough to tell you the truth. And so we're going to speak the truth Right now Because people are being held into bondage And untold reproach is being brought Upon the name of Christ.

So thank you dear ones. I know it's kind of a long introduction But I want to set this up. I have links down below in the description For the resources that will help you To understand this.

Issue.

And why it's such a danger. And to find true freedom In the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not in Deliverance Ministries. We want to deliver you. Out of Deliverance Ministries. Here's my interview with Jim and Chris.

Alexander Pagani, Apostolic Authority, and a False View of the Trinity

Alright, Chris Rosebro, Jim Osmond Brothers, thank you so much For joining me today.

Thank you, pleasure to be on.

My pleasure.

Yeah.

Well, guys, as you know The Deliverance Ministries have Really risen And taken center stage Of sorts in the evangelical world Unfortunately, in the charismatic evangelical world In the last few years.

And they've had some movies come out Come out in Jesus name Which Jim and I both have seen. Chris, I think you've seen as well now, right?

Yeah.

Which was just an absolute Train wreck, Domino Revival Which is on my bucket, well not my bucket List, but I'm going to see that, haven't seen it yet.

You need to Improve your bucket list if that made it.

Right. No doubt.

Well, I wanted to have you guys on Because each of you have Been doing a lot of work in this area In different ways, Chris, of course. On your Fighting for the Faith YouTube Channel, you've been dealing with Alexander Pagani, Isaiah Saldivar, and some of these Other Demon Slayers, and they call themselves That by the way, Demon Slayers.

Yes they do.

For over a year, right?

Yeah, no. In the lead up To the movie come out in Jesus name Which the lead up was several months. Long, you know. They were doing weekly podcasts. And they had a Demon Slayers Podcast that they were doing in the lead up.

And so, yeah, it's been. It's been the better part of a year since they've really Been calling themselves that. Although, I think when they went Into production is kind of when they started Really digging In their entrenchments regarding the Language.

And Jim, you've written a book entitled Truth or Territory A Biblical Approach to Spiritual Warfare. I'm going to have links to Both Chris's YouTube Channel and Jim Osmond's website As well, where people can avail themselves To these resources.

Truth or Territory A Biblical Approach to Spiritual Warfare Is excellent, I think. My humble opinion, I think it is The definitive work At least up to this point On what true spiritual warfare is.

And it's.

Not about what we're about to see.

Alright.

So, alright men, I sent y 'all Some clips, and this is So, recently The clip we're about to watch From Alexander Pagani made a lot Of waves, because He said some really bizarre things. One of which, not the Least of which, is he said that Paraphrasing here You can be a gay Christian But you can't be Gay and in the kingdom.

Now, people rightly called That out, I mean, I don't even know what that means. But, he did Post an apology Video, in which He tried to clarify his remarks. And, so we're going to listen To that, but that Is kind of a, so basically What he says as far as being a gay Christian He said, his thesis Was, his apology.

When he tried to Explain what he meant was Lots of people claim to be Christians.

And.

They are also gay. It's like, you know, everybody can claim To be a Christian, but they're not really A Christian, so he said I wasn't saying that you can actually be A gay Christian. It's just lots of people claim to be Christians who are gay.

So that, so I In fact, I'll even put a link down In the description, so people can watch his apology For himself, but I want to keep That got all the buzz. But there's some other issues In this video clip, that I think.

Are Uh.

Equally troubling. That he didn't really flesh out in his apology. So, let's watch this. And I'll get you brothers to.

Comment.

Here we go, Alexander Pagani.

Point.

This one is fast. Say with me, take your time apostle. Why. Thank you, I think I will.

Okay, I'm going to pause it here. Take it, so he calls himself An apostle.

Is.

Alexander Pagani, or anyone else. For that matter, an apostle.

Nope.

No, I Would note though, you have to Pay attention to some of his other videos. He did an interview, where Somebody defended him And his apostolate By saying, well he's not claiming that he's A special kind of apostle like Paul Or Peter, but that he's an apostle Because he's a church planter.

And so He hides behind The word apostle, and plays A little bit of word games with the definitions. And so We have to be careful Because he does claim That he uses the term by way Of missionary, not as the Apostle Paul or Peter, at least.

That was the claim made for him By somebody else.

That's a claim made for him, now is that a claim He makes for himself.

He.

Was on that interview, so While the person was saying those words Pagani didn't interrupt him. Or contradict him. So we have to assume that He agrees with that. So Pagani claims to be an apostle By virtue of being A church planter.

But that was the first I had ever heard of that. That was an interview recently. Within the last 3 -4 weeks.

So.

I would note that the problem with that With his use of that is that It's not at all clear in the minds of his audience For the people who watch his videos That there is a distinction there. Most people do not make that distinction.

You and I might make a distinction Between small a apostle and capital a apostle. And he's hiding behind the term Apostle, and I think he's using it Differently depending On what context he's in and the way He wants to be regarded.

He wants to be regarded as one Who has authority, who hears from God. So he kind of wants to be Colored as a capital a apostle. But then if you ask him Are you claiming authority like the apostle Paul.

He can just quickly switch to the other definition And defer and say Oh no, I'm not that kind of an apostle. But that's not clear in the minds Of the audience If I refer to myself as son of God And I allow other people to refer to me as son of God There's a sense in which I am A son of God.

But if that distinction is not That I'm not claiming divinity by that title. If that distinction is not clear in the minds Of everybody who hear that, it's best for me Not to just refer to myself as son of God And allow other people to refer to me as son of God.

Because that communicates something In the minds of people that's not helpful. And it's not a distinction that people are making.

Yep, I completely agree with you Jim. He's playing Both sides of the fence He's obfuscating He's legitimately Playing with both definitions Depending on what the audience is And is not putting clarification forward To make sure that nobody would Think more of him than they should That's for sure.

And if he were not intentionally playing both sides And intentionally Leading people to deception in that way He could just clarify all of it And just never refer to himself as apostle. And just refer to himself as a missionary A church planter, or whatever.

But he doesn't do that. He takes the title because he wants that title. But he doesn't want the responsibility That would go along with it. I would never call myself an apostle. I would just call myself A pastor, or a church planter, or a missionary Or a preacher, or whatever.

But he doesn't do that. There's an intentional deception. An intentional Equivocation that's going on there. And he's willing to ride that wave.

Yep, and I would note that He notably appeared at the beginning Of 2023 on a video Put out by Charisma News Giving a prophecy for the year 2023, and he Gave a thus saith the Lord prophecy Claiming that what God was telling him Was coming up for the year 2023.

So he does Put forward the idea that He hears directly from God And therefore he has greater authority By virtue of the fact That he hears God's voice Than the average Joe pastor.

That's right. That's right, that's exactly right.

100

And also there are many people Within the charismatic movement who actually Do claim the mantle of Apostle office. So, yeah. But none of those guys are around anymore. They've all been in heaven for. Oh, about 2 ,000 years or so.

Alright, so let's continue.

The next one Is a matter of preference But I've seen it in my life Watch this And let me finish this thought out Before you.

Throw a shoe.

And some tomatoes And a stone.

Okay, I'm going to pause it again. Because him saying that, he said Let me get this out before you throw a shoe or a tomato or a stone. He knows, he knows. That what he's about to say Is controversial And is going to raise people's antenna.

So this is not. This is not a throw away. This is something he's given thought to.

God.

Starts Changing Your mind From being Jesus Centered To Holy Spirit centered. Let me finish this thought. It's not called the gifts of Jesus. It's called the gifts of the. It's not called the fruit of Jesus.

It's called the fruit of the. You're not even called the temple of Jesus.

Temple of the.

Nowhere in the New Testament In the book of Acts Except One place Talking to Paul Where you find Jesus talking.

Every chapter.

Go look it up. It has this phrase. And the Holy Spirit said. The Spirit of God said Watch this. How many of you know the prophet Agabus. You know he prophesied two times in the New Testament. You know how he prophesied.

He didn't say thus saith the Lord. Go look it up He said thus saith the Spirit. As a matter of fact Jesus doesn't even end the letter to the churches. With his own name He says he that has ears to hear.

Let him hear.

What the Spirit is saying. Now why. Why am I saying this. Because you could get away with A lot in Jesus. You can't get away with that in the Holy Ghost. Can I get you mad. I'm an apostle so I'm going to get you mad a little bit.

Watch this.

This is why modern evangelicalism Loves to stay in Jesus. Want to know why. Because Jesus won't condemn you. I'm a Christian but you can't be gay. And be in the kingdom Jesus he'll forgive you.

But you can't blaspheme the Holy Ghost. Lift your hands and show.

Of course there is.

I don't know eyeballing it. Probably at least a thousand people in there. And they're all hooping and hollering. Got their hands raised eating up. Every bit of it.

Oh my goodness.

Alright so.

Well they think that's biblical preaching. They think that that's. They think that God is teaching them something.

Yeah.

The issue is that Pagani has his own theology. And that's the problem. And what he has done here is a classic Bible twisting technique Of basically picking Verses out of context And then stringing together As if somehow Out of context They prove a point together.

They don't. And as a result of it he has some Explaining to do because The same apostle Paul which listed out The gifts of the spirit Who talks about the fruit of the spirit. He made something very clear In 1st Corinthians.

And that is that 1st Corinthians chapter 2 the apostle Paul Says I chose to know nothing among you Except for Christ and him crucified. And Paul When he preached He preached about Jesus. And you'll Note when you read the epistles In context Rather than just taking these verses out of context.

The entire New Testament Is about Christ. I would even argue the entire Old Testament Is about Christ. And the work of the Holy Spirit that Christ Says that the Holy Spirit is going to do Is going to convict the world of sin and unbelief.

And the Holy Spirit Is going to recall to the mind of the Apostles all the things that Jesus said And taught. And so one of my seminary profs Described the role of the Holy Spirit. Is the Holy Spirit is the PR guy For Jesus.

And if you were to have a conversation with the Holy Spirit The Holy Spirit would say oh that's great. But let me tell you about Jesus. Because the Holy Spirit is pointing us to Christ. And yes the Holy Spirit does produce in us The fruit of repentance and the fruit of the spirit.

But he doesn't do so Apart from the words of Christ We have to abide in his words. And the words that he gave That are recorded in the gospels. The words that are recorded by his Apostles, the true ones.

And it's through those means that Christ produces in us The fruit of the spirit. So he's basically Ignoring all of these, the context Of these verses, pulling them out of context And then saying we need to Get away from being Jesus focused.

If you stop being Jesus focused You cease to be a Christian.

Amen Jim?

I would just Add to that that there is.

A.

Distinction that he is making between the Persons of the Trinity at the very beginning of that Clip he says God changes Your mind from being Jesus focused to Holy Spirit focused so I'm assuming That by God there he's referring to the Father that this is a function That this is something the Father does, changes your mind From being Jesus focused To Holy Spirit focused.

And his apology dealt with His statement that you can be a Christian And be a homosexual. But you can't be a Christian or be a homosexual And be in the kingdom as if you can be A Christian and not in the kingdom His apology tried to Navigate around that.

But really the Grievous part of that is this Bifurcation that he's making Between Jesus and the Holy Spirit as if they are at odds with one another. As if it's almost A modalistic approach to The Trinity where some modalists Will say that God appeared as the Father In the Old Testament, he came in the New Testament As the Son and now in the Church Age he's becoming The Holy Spirit or he is manifesting Himself as the Holy Spirit in that role.

And it's almost like he just wants us In the Church Age to focus upon the Holy Spirit. This is the kind of explanation Of the work of the Trinity That I would expect from a modalist Not from somebody who is a Trinitarian As if the focus Now in the New Testament Was the person of Christ but now we're To focus on the Holy Spirit and this is how God Is manifesting himself whereas what Chris said is absolutely right, the role Of the Spirit is to point us to Jesus So that in Christ we may behold the glory Of the Father, right, so if we've seen Christ we've seen the Father, so the Spirit Does this work in us to focus Us on Christ so that we may Behold the glory of the Father and thus The glory of the Triune God In the person of Christ, we are to See that there's a self-reflecting Aspect of Trinitarian Personhood and work that's going On there and Pagani just sort of Brushes past that and I would just Say one more thing, Alexander Pagani would avoid some of these pitfalls.

And some of these needless Controversies and the necessity of making Apology videos if he would simply Stick to studying the text And then standing up and giving an Exposition of the text to his people.

Drop the handheld mic. Get your Bible open in front of you. Stop prancing about across the stage like a WWF wrestler. And instead stand behind the pulpit In the Bible and exposit Scripture And teach what the text says and stop Relying upon whatever you think the Spirit of God Is bringing to your mind and your heart In the moment and going off the cuff Like this where you say things that are Not only dangerous but openly Heretical and then you have to come back and make apologies Later on when you realize What you thought you were supposed to say in the moment Wasn't in fact the work of the Spirit of God In giving you new revelation But was in fact lies straight from the Pit of hell And blasphemous ones at that.

Yeah and I would add to it That when you look at his technique It's very, so many Evangelicals and Pentecostals are Perfectly set up for this kind of nonsense Because they don't Actually hear preaching of God's word in context Actual exposition Actual exegesis.

And as a result of it, I remember back when I was in Nazarene and under the influence Of John Wesley's Holiness and doctrines.

Right?

That when we would attend a small group Bible study, I kid you not Our small group leaders would read One or two verses out of context And then go around the room And ask this question, what does this verse mean To you?

Well that's a Dangerous way of approaching the scriptures Because now all of a sudden the meaning Of the scripture is tied up In my subjective Experiences and what I'm thinking or Feeling in the moment.

The reality Is that God is the one who Caused these words to be written And they mean what God intended them to Mean. So when somebody Has developed their Own personal theology That is sinful In fact Many people need to repent of their own Sinful theologies and their own opinions And so when he talks about the Fact that you can Be a gay Christian And things like this What he needs to do is stick to the Biblical text.

So for instance 1 Corinthians 6 couldn't be clearer Here's what it says Do you not know that the unrighteous Will not inherit the kingdom Of God? That's a question And Paul's making a point by asking The question.

He says do not be deceived And so when somebody comes to you And they say something contrary to this They're deceiving you because they Themselves are deceived. Neither the Sexually immoral, the idolaters The adulterers or men who practice Homosexuality nor thieves Nor greedy nor drunkards nor revilers Nor swindlers will inherit The kingdom of God.

Full stop. Then he says to the Christians at Corinth and such Were some of you But you were washed, you were sanctified You were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

And here you see The Spirit and Jesus working Together in tandem To redeem us and Wash us away and sanctify Us from what we were. So When somebody is, their identity Is wrapped up in their sin And their identity is wrapped up in a Sinful identity We have a clear text That says, dude, you're not going to inherit the kingdom of God You need to repent.

If your identity Is in your sin and not In Christ and what God has Done in you and through you Through the work of Jesus by the power Of the Spirit, then you're Doomed. You have to Repent and come back And confess that This is sinful and be Forgiven and recognize that And have your identity in Jesus not In your sin.

That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And to be fair, we're Not taking him out of context. We're not, I've already acknowledged He did an apology video. I'll link To it down below in the description so people Can see it for themselves.

We're not trying to be Unfair at all here. But that is sloppy. Theology and. And he also affirmed In his apology video He said, I believe in the Trinity. I am a Trinitarian. So he affirms That In his, in his lingo.

But yet what he taught In that clip is.

Is this.

Anti-Trinitarian. Yeah.

There's a lot of people who would claim to be Trinitarians who do not understand the doctrine Of the Trinity. I think it's true that probably Most Christians sitting in most Evangelical churches would Describe themselves as Trinitarians.

But then you ask them then define for me the Doctrine of the Trinity and they wouldn't be able to Give you a coherent answer to that question. They can. Never, you and I can, we can define the Doctrine of the Trinity.

Three persons eternally Existing, co-substantial Co-equal with one another from all of eternity. These three persons are All one God and each of them Fully possesses the nature of the Fully possesses the divine nature.

We could give a fleshed out Understanding of the Trinity but most People will give you a modalistic Approach to the Trinity or Sabellianism or Some other ancient heresy because They've never thought, they've never been taught and Pagani is in that, if he had If he had a biblical doctrine Of the Trinity, other than just saying hey I'm Trinitarian, I believe Father, Son, Holy Spirit, all God, if he Had a biblical idea of the Trinity He would never stumble into that type Of nonsense.

That's right.

That's right. And two.

Not even accidentally, not even accidentally.

Not even accidentally, yeah. I would never.

Say something like that on accident. No.

None of the three of us would even Accidentally say something like that.

You know, I mean.

If I accidentally said something like that from the pulpit I would accidentally be brought up on False doctrine charges. Right.

Yeah, and then.

I would very emphatically Give a Full-throated apology.

So, um, now.

When he says, I want to return to what he.

Says, you know, it's the.

Gifts of the Spirit Not the gifts of Jesus. So that goes exactly to what we were talking About, about him affirming the Trinity In lingo, but then denying it in what he In the content of what he taught.

I wonder what he does with Ephesians chapter 4. Ephesians 4, let's read it Real quick, verses 8 through 11, therefore It says, when he ascended on high He led captive a host of captives And he gave gifts To men.

That's Christ His expression, he ascended, what does It mean that he, except that he also Descended into the lower parts of the earth. He who descended is himself also He who ascended far above all The heavens so that he might fill all things And he himself.

Verse 11. And he himself gave Some as apostles Some as prophets, some as evangelists, some as Pastors and teachers for the equipping Of the saints for the work of service to the Building up of the body of Christ.

The body of Christ or the body of the Holy Spirit. I'm confused.

Right, yeah, yeah I know, it's just What a Pandora's box of theological Conundrums he has opened for us.

So what you said there, Justin Is that Jesus Christ himself Is the one who gives these gifts to us. So yes, they're called the gifts of the Holy Spirit Because the gift of the Spirit The indwelling of the Spirit Manifests those special Gifts in the Individual believer, but those gifts were Secured by Christ through his Condescension here to earth His suffering, his burial, his resurrection And then his ascension to the right hand Of the Father, so the work of Christ Has secured those gifts, those are his gifts To give, and he gives them In and through the person of the Holy Spirit.

But they are just as much the gifts of Christ to his church as they are the gifts of The Holy Spirit, and this is one of Those examples in Scripture Where something can be Said of a work or a function Of one of the persons of the Trinity that can also be Affirmed of all of the other persons of the Trinity.

Whereas we would never say that the Father Suffered and died on the cross, or that The Holy Spirit suffered and died on the cross Or that either one of them rose from the dead. We can say that the Father Raised Jesus from the dead, that Jesus raised Himself from the dead, the Holy Spirit raised Christ From the dead, so there are actions Or functions, economically speaking Of the Trinity that can Be affirmed of all three persons, but there are some Functions of a Trinitarian Person that cannot be affirmed of All three persons, like the Suffering or the Passion of Christ Or the second person, so the giving Of these gifts, they are the gifts of You could even, I would even be willing To say that they are the gifts of the Father to his church, through his Son to his church, these are also The gifts of Christ that he gives to his Body, and they are the gifts of the Holy Spirit The manifestation of the Spirit of God in the life Of a believer, so to try And to try and Divide the persons of the Trinity In terms of isolating, as Chris Said earlier, these individual passages That describe the gifts as the gift of the Spirit, and isolating them from their context If he had just read about Who gave the gifts, who secured the gifts Who is behind the giving of the Gifts, it's Christ himself every bit as Much as it is the Holy Spirit.

Amen, and I would Add three texts from the Gospel Of John that support exactly what you said Jim, first of them is John 14 26 Christ is speaking here, he says, but the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name He will teach you all things And bring to your remembrance all that I have said To you, so note, you had pointed Out that you said you believe Behind Christ sending the Holy Spirit, you also have the Father behind it, and that text proves It, and then in John 15 26, Christ says, when The Helper comes, whom I will Send to you from the Father The Spirit of truth who proceeds From the Father, he will bear Witness about me, that That's that Holy Spirit being the PR Guy about Jesus, and then John 16 7, nevertheless I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage That I go away, for if I do not Go away, the Helper will not come to you But if I go, I will send him to You, and so you'll note You cannot separate the work of the Holy Spirit from the fact that Christ And that Jesus and the Father Sent him, this is why we In one of the creeds it says that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and The Son, and who With the Father and the Son together is Worshipped and glorified So that being the case here You know, him somehow Taking these passages out of context Is doing violence to the fuller Biblical truth that the Father And the Son are both responsible For sending the Spirit, and the Spirit Has particular functions that Christ Says he's going to do, which is going to Bring the things that he did to the remembrance He's going to bear witness about Christ, and he's going to be our helper Our paraclete, and Boy do we need that helper when it comes To the daily battle against our sinful flesh In putting that thing Down.

Yeah.

No doubt. Jim, were you.

Going to say something? Well, I was just going to say. Chris, would you ever let somebody with his Theological depth of understanding Come and preach in your pulpit?

I wouldn't even let them be a member of Kongsvig. I'll be blunt. If somebody came to me And they were this poorly instructed in The scripture, and Imbibing in this kind of theology Not only would they not be allowed to preach I would not Sanction them to become a member of our Church.

It takes two years Of going through catechesis, and a Full on hour and a half long examination Before I'll let somebody be Considered for membership at our church.

Yeah.

That's just, that was. Going to my point, is that Alexander Pagani He should not only stop to be Stop calling himself an apostle, but he Should lay aside any Public ministry that he has, and just The fact that he has demonstrated this Low view of scripture Low view of the trinity, and Incomplete theological knowledge, he should Stop becoming a, stop making himself A teacher of any, and Sit down and study, and get versed in Systematic theology.