Discussing the Trump/Harris Debate w/Bradley Pierce

In Matthew 16, Jesus chastised the Pharisees who could interpret the appearance of the sky but failed to interpret the signs of the time in which they lived. Who are the Pharisees of our day?

This strong hold of sort of whiteness and white identity and pristineness is really part of what keeps us from making progress.

We need to do better. The Church, rich in theological scholarship, has lingered in academic sanctuaries and ivory towers, failing to translate its lofty doctrines into a tangible and practical cultural apologetic.

At the Worldview Youth Academy we bridge this critical gap. Here theological depth is not an end in itself but a means to engage with contemporary cultural issues for the glory of God and the expansion of his kingdom.

Our mission is to cultivate thinkers who can articulate and apply Christian truths within contemporary societal challenges. So embrace this call to worship God with all your heart, all your soul and with all your mind.

We will do better as this next generation tears down the idols of our modern culture and works to build a brighter future toward Christendom. 2 .0.

Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their.

Courage.

Go into all the world and make disciples, not go into the world and make buddies, not to make brosives, don't go into the world and make homies, disciples.

I got a bit of a jiggle neck.

That's a joke, Pastor.

When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

Now therefore, O kings, be wise. Be warned, O rulers of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you perish in the way, for his wrath is kindled quickly.

Blessed are all who take refuge in him. That's one of my favorite verses, Psalm 2, 10 through 12. And of course, my favorite version of that verse is the Ben Merkle.

Kiss the Son or you get smoked, right?

Kiss the Son lest you get smoked. I love that.

I mean, that's not far off the original Hebrew, I will say.

It's more, I think it really, really brings that verse together.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Welcome back to another episode of Apologia Radio. Luke DeBear hosting this week. We were off last week as Pastor Jeff and I were in Louisiana, having a pastor's meeting there at Brian Gunter's church, which went really well.

Trying to continue our work there for an abortion now. Speaking of Pastor Jeff, he is in South Carolina right now, I believe, or on his way for another pastor's meeting in South Carolina with our good friend, Matt Brock.

So be praying for that. And I got to my left here, Little Zeezers.

That's me.

We got a lot going on right now.

Yeah. Yeah. There's some activity. Of course, in our own state, with our own local fight here and then abroad in different states, new states, even bringing them into this fight and teaching and discipling the church and preaching God's counsel on this issue.

Yeah. So. Yeah.

We, besides the election and all these ballot initiatives and all this, we just officially have two more states that we're going to be putting bills in this year. I don't even know. What's that put us up to?

20ish?

Yeah.

So North Dakota and Illinois. Come on, feel the Illinois. Yes, that's huge. That's a liberal state, at least as far as the government.

That's what I heard.

Yeah.

So I think the only other like really democratic state we've tried has been Colorado. So that's good.

Yeah.

Which wasn't always historically that way.

Right.

That's more of a recent thing.

Right. Exactly.

So we got those and we just heard from our guests who I'll bring on in a minute, possibly two more states we've been trying hard on. So that would put us up about 22, I think so.

Yeah.

Almost halfway there.

That's exciting. That's exciting.

So before we get into the conversation, I would like to thank our partners. One of them being Ion Layer, which Zach and I both completely forgot to wear our patches today, even though I had it laid out.

So I remember.

Next week, Ion it.

We won't be here next week.

The week after that, Ion it.

Hopefully Jeff's doing a show next week. We won't be here because we're going to be on our way to North Dakota where one of our bills, we have a patch with me in North Dakota. Zach has shared the link for that if you were in North Dakota or South Dakota or anywhere that's close to there, which I don't know if there's much closer there.

We'll be in Bismarck. So that'll be next Friday. Like I said, Zach shared the link on the X's.

Yep, on our In Abortion Now X page.

So if you've got any questions, we'd love to see you there or if you're able to join.

Us. But yeah.

And then we have, well, Jeff's got a thing coming up here with our guest Bradley Pierce again, who I'll bring on in a second. And what else have we got? We'll be going back to Germany here shortly as well to continue our In Abortion Now work.

Ohio, Kentucky are in the mix a little bit too. I know. Ohio guys got a bill. They've been working really hard to get in there.

Yeah, a lot going on. So back to Ion Layer. I got distracted. We love Ion Layer and NAD. We've all benefited greatly physically from their product and we're glad to partner with.

Them.

You can go to ionlayer .com and put apology in the coupon code to get a sweet discount. It's like Oprah today. We're throwing out discounts left and right. We'll get to that.

You get a car and you get a car.

And you get a discount.

Yeah, you get a discount.

So I also like this one. I like to think Heritage Defense, heritagedefense .org. And actually, I'm going to let since Brad is our guest today, I'm going to let him tell you about Heritage Defense and the sweet discount you can get with Heritage Defense.

Bradley, what's up, brother? Welcome back.

Hey, thanks for having me. Great to be with you all.

We love Brad. He's one of our favorite people in the world. I mean that. And he's a really awesome Texan. And he has 35 .3 children. He's got a lot of babies. He's got a lot of babies. A lot of babies.

What's up, brother?

We're doing great. All 37 .3 of us are doing great.

So tell us about Heritage Defense. Why should people have that service?

Yeah, so Heritage Defense, Christian homeschooling families, or even if you're not homeschooling, if your children just are not school age yet, you know, parental rights are a big issue. The government doesn't like the way a lot of Christians are raising their children in fear of the Lord.

And so we started this organization in 2010 to provide a defense for Christian homeschooling families and families with young children to have someone that they can call 24 -7, get connected with an attorney, have someone there to defend your parental rights, deal with any kind of false allegations of abuse or neglect or anything overblown.

And just so you're not alone. That way you have an advocate, you have an attorney, and you can call us 24 -7. It's included with your membership. And we hire an attorney for you in your area. And all that's included as part of the membership with Heritage Defense.

Yes, highly recommend it. And I don't know if you know who Mike Glover is, either of you. He's an ex-Ranger, I think. He has a popular podcast called Fieldcraft Survival, a bunch of stuff. Anyways, not a Christian, but he, well, I think he would say he is, but he had a situation just this last year where, you know, ECS was called.

I think he's up in Idaho, I believe. Just crazy situation where he ended up in jail for a while and, like, never should have happened. The kids were taken, like, just crazy. And I'm like, man, if he had Heritage Defense, that wouldn't have happened.

I don't have time to get into the details. It was a crazy story. But I was like, man, that's crazy. So, yes, if you're homeschooling, please go to HeritageDefense .org. Sign up before the show's over.

You have an hour to do so. Bradley, what else do you have going on right now? Before, but we're going to get into the Trump-Harris debate, and especially on the abortion topic. But Brad's got a couple things coming up that are pretty exciting.

So tell us about those.

Yeah, so the second, well, actually, both of these involve Jeff. First of all, what I'll talk about is our new docu-series that we produced with our friends at Rescue Those called Abortion Free. And that just kind of, it's six episodes, about 30 minutes each, that follows Megan as she discovers what's going on with abortion after Dobbs overturned Roe.

And she finds out it's not what most people are told and not what most people think is what's going on. So Jeff's one of the folks on there as well. And I highly recommend people check it out, abortionfree .com, or you can go to our YouTube page, Foundation to Abolish Abortion, and watch that.

Yeah, actually, so while that's a good, I'll play the trailer here real quick. I haven't pulled up. Yeah, it's on YouTube, and I actually linked the trailer in the description if you guys want to check that out.

But I'll go ahead and, Gabe, if you want to pull it up, I'll go ahead and play that real quick.

Roe v. Wade has been overturned.

In 11 states, abortion is effectively banned.

My name is Megan. Now that I'm pregnant with my first baby, I care more about protecting life than ever. I keep seeing pro-life headlines say some states are abortion free, including mine. But are they?

I want to find out what's really going on.

We don't see any abortions being reported to the Department of Health.

Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama, and Oklahoma are seeing the biggest increases in requests for abortion pills.

So since Roe v. Wade has been overturned, is abortion illegal in South Carolina? I think so, yes. Is abortion illegal in Oklahoma?

Yes.

Is abortion illegal in Texas?

Yes.

No, it's not illegal.

On Mayday .Health, we tell you how people are still getting pills by mail.

So I got both abortion pills that I ordered in the mail.

Now the whole culture is the abortion clinic.

If what we've been doing isn't working, what should we do?

Abolitionism versus being pro-life, those are two different things.

The biggest distinction between the pro-life movement and the abolitionist movement is we engage biblically.

We're just asking for the law that we have to be applied consistently for every image bearer of God.

The goal is that everyone gets equal justice under law.

Why can't we just make laws protecting unborn babies the same as born babies? We had a bill of equal protection put in. It was actively opposed publicly and behind closed doors by the leader of the pro-life establishment.

Kentucky Right to Life opposing a new bill that would criminalize abortion.

Why would pro-life leaders oppose that?

For the record, Susan Klein representing Missouri Right to Life in opposition to the prosecution of women.

Can't we all agree that we are not going to put a woman in jail or give her the death penalty if she gets an abortion? We do not support penalizing them for getting the abortion.

Every single bill that they write, they write in there, this doesn't apply to the mother.

Women are victims of abortion whether they claim that for themselves or not. There's a huge just infantilizing of women. Women are not victims of abortion. Women are choosing abortion. My abortion was the best decision I ever made.

It was an act of self-love.

They have no problem understanding that they are murdering a child. Many of them celebrate that fact.

She has murder on her mind as she twerks in front of Planned Parenthood.

The crazy reality is in these states that say they're abortion free now, abortion has never been easier. I could abort my baby in any of the 50 states.

Excellent.

Well yeah guys, check that out. Please and go support Bradley and the work they're doing there. And then you also got a big conference coming up. So tell us about that.

We do. We're very excited about that. October 18th, one day conference on a Friday. About 10 minutes from the DFW airport, Dallas area. Equipping the saints to abolish abortion. We've got Jeff Durbin coming along with Tom Askell with Founders Ministries.

We've got Josh Bice and Virgil Walker with G3 Ministries. Phil George, pastor of a local church here. Dusty Devers, Oklahoma senator. And Brett Baggett, head of Rescue Those, Oklahoma pastor. And I'm going to be speaking as well.

We're going to be talking about what's really going on. How should pastors be leading their flocks and teaching about this. How can we be soft and light and not just under a bushel and not just thrown out.

But actually engaging with the culture and standing at the gates. And talking about issues about also IVF, birth control. And I'm going to be doing a talk specifically on are increments okay? We all want to get from here to there and abolish abortion.

Are there some things that are lawful and some things that are unlawful? Are there some things that help the cause and some things that hurt the cause? And we're going to be talking about that. Awesome.

Love for people to come to that.

And so you were going to give a discount to that as well, correct?

Exactly. For all of your listeners, followers of End Abortion Now, there's a promo code. Right now we're getting close to October 18th. So we're in the late bird pricing if you will. But you can get the early bird pricing.

The late bird. Yeah.

The late bird. The late bird can still get the worm here with the promo code EAN60. So that's EAN60 to get the early bird pricing for all your listeners.

Excellent. Yeah, man.

I'm excited for that. I wish I could be there.

It's going to be great. I just think it's, I mean, the work that you're doing, man, alongside us and other like-minded organizations is just so important right now. Like I look at that docu-series and we've blown the trumpet on this so many times.

Just like the effect that this has had on the broader cultural conversation of understanding that this hasn't gone anywhere. It's just been made more accessible, more affordable, more anonymous for people to obtain.

And it's actually put us in a really challenging position at the state level with these ballot measures too. Because if you think about it from a standpoint of responsibility, I mean, the Supreme Court, as you've said before, Bradley, they kind of wash their hands of the responsibility of these children.

And then we have, you know, our highest leaders who are washing their hands and saying, give it to the states. And then you have the church by and large saying, no, we're going to wash our hands and not defend the fatherless.

And then you have mothers and fathers at the street level who are saying, no, we're not going to take responsibility for our children. We're going to wash our hands of that. And then you have the state at an individual level rising up and saying, well, let's let the people decide.

Let's just put it up to a vote and let everybody go their own way on this and violate the constitution and the law of God and all the rest. And it just seems like the problem is that nobody wants to take responsibility for these children.

Exactly right. Yeah. I mean, even we, you know, we have, we're fighting with everything we got right now about initiative here in Arizona that I've heard if pass is going to be like the worst of all of them.

That's what I've been reading. And it's, I mean, we're, we're got bill billboards up. We got, we're putting signs over doing everything we can, but the sign that we keep seeing around that's it's from the pro-life movement, pro-life industry in Arizona.

It's what does it, it's a, it goes too far. It goes too far. Yeah.

So they were, they were involved with a lot of the group in Ohio where they had the recent amendment and that same strategy failed this idea of, you know, protect women. This is an issue of women's healthcare and all the rest that morally ambiguous language, which confuses people.

And I think really led to the outcome that you saw in Ohio by and large.

Yeah. So the issue is not that it's murder. It's, it's, this goes a little too far. Don't you guys think it's a little,.

It's too extreme. Yeah. Too extreme. Late term abortions, too extreme.

It's crazy. So yeah, that's what we're up against. But real quick before we get into the debate, Bradley, I know we've had you on this talk about this specifically before the ballot initiatives, but as a constitutional lawyer, can you just explain to our listeners, maybe they're not up to date on these, how these work.

And it's my understanding these actually, I mean, they're trying to undermine the democratic process in our, in our nation. And so can you just explain briefly like what we're up against and what these are going to do?

Yeah. So these ballot initiatives are, you know, instituted by, are initiated by citizens, right. Of the state that they, if they get enough signatures, then they can get a question on the ballot to put something into the state's law or the state's constitution and, and really override the whole Republican form of government.

You know, the U S constitution says that every state must guarantee a Republican form of government, but these ballot initiatives in the states that allow them got like short circuit all that and say, you know what, Hey, let's just have majority rule.

You know, like what is it like, you know, three wolves vote voting on whether to eat the two lambs kind of thing. And it's, it's just a total majority rule. Everyone does what's right in their own eyes, kind of a situation, you know, not bound by, you know, they're, we're going to amend the constitution.

And again, a lot of it is, you know, they're hoping low information voters come out and support this stuff and don't really know what's going on. And that they tried, then they try to confuse the people who actually do know what's going on or, or should, and they can't figure out and they stay home.

So these are just things that most of these say that there's a fundamental right to an abortion. And they say, Oh, it's a fundamental right to abortion up to viability. Um, and, but then they say, and then after that abortion, uh, is a right in the case of health and then health is totally undefined mental health, not just physical, right?

And so it's like, it's, it's abortion up to nine months because if you get a chiropractor to say, you know, being pregnant is going to make your back hurt a little bit, then, Oh, health, I can get an abortion, uh, because of that.

So a lot of them are saying, you know, like, Oh, this is only for viability to viability, which is already evil and horrific. Um, but they're actually the way they're worded. It would actually allow abortions to all the way up to nine months.

Um, so there's this, these are horrible.

Can I ask a quick question about that? The process of the citizen led initiatives. I mean, we have our form of government for a reason, the rule of law, the process by which we can change laws from a legal perspective, a constitutional perspective.

Is this a legitimate way to change a law? Like, is this ever morally acceptable to put an issue like this up to a popular vote? Like, I feel like as a Christian, I would look at it and say, well, we would need to have a nation full of moral people and we don't.

And so God help us for entrusting something like this to the people who more oftentimes want evil than not. But even in a state like ours, I'm not convinced that the majority of Arizonans want this. I think this is funded externally.

It's the result of infrastructure and money, money coming from outside in to influence. And as you said, confuse voters and deceive people and mislead them into doing this. But that's my question is, is this ever legitimate to change the law like this from a constitutional perspective?

I don't think so. I think it violates, it violates the constitution. Like I said, Republican form of government guarantee, because this is,.

You know,.

Republican form of government is you elect people who then represent people and then they can then pass laws and things like that. Right. This completely bypasses that. This is a, a pure democracy, a form of government.

And yeah, I think it's unconstitutional and it's certainly unconstitutional in this instance because the 14th amendment says no state should deny to any person within its jurisdiction, the equal protection of the laws.

And now we have this, now we have states like Ohio and your state and lots of other states around the country right now deciding, well, do we, do we want to deny equal protection or not? And not only does that violate God's law, but it violates the U S constitution.

So really these should, they should be even be allowed to vote on this because they violate the Supreme law to land the U S constitution.

Yeah. They're just seizing that opportunity to do it and circumventing the process.

That we have.

And this is what the Supreme court, you know, this is what the Supreme court, this is the problem with Dobbs, you know, the, the Dobbs case said, um, you know, we're, we're, we're turning this back. And what's interesting though, is that the Supreme court actually said, we're returning this to the people's representatives.

Um, so it actually, even the Dobbs case, you could argue like, wait, even the Dobbs case doesn't allow for this. Um, but the, there's basically the Supreme court saying, Hey, we're out of it. And in this case, um, you know, it is, it was the Supreme court, like you said, washing their hands, just saying, all right, y 'all figure this out.

And, um, you know, even though it, even though the constitution screams, the states must provide equal protection, the Supreme court just totally ignored that.

Yeah. Yeah. So that was something in the debate. I'll, I'll hold off getting into that too deep yet. Cause that was something Trump talked about. I want to make sure we discuss. So in regards to these amendments, so I know when you had you on before, when this one first popped up in Ohio, I think you had said that what's going to result from this is years of litigation and going through all the layers of courts.

Yes. And so from your perspective, do you see like, so just say Ohio, for example, cause it's already been passed or voted in, in Ohio. Like you, you see it going to making its way up to the Supreme court and then them eventually having to make a ruling on whether or not it's constitutional.

I think at some point, I think that's where it'll get to. I think right now the Supreme court doesn't really have the stomach to rule on equal protection. And, and so I think, even though the Ohio new Ohio constitutional amendment violates constitution, the U S constitution, I think the, the federal courts are just going to let it for now.

And because it's, you know, they've just kind of returned it to the States, you know, as, as Trump has said and they're not going to step in.

You think there are, even though they're afraid, you think they're afraid like they're afraid of the mob?

Um, I don't know if they're, you know, afraid of the mob, like personally, I think, I think there's some, some courageous people on the court in that sense. I don't know that I'd say they're like personally afraid personally, but, but I think that they're, I think they're afraid of the mob that the mob could just tear the country apart.

Um, and, and, and completely, um, you know, just undermine, undermine the Republic, so to speak, by, if the, if the court goes too far, then, you know, you could have, you could have some real problems.

I think, I think that's what they're afraid of. I think, I think they want them at land, especially Roberts. He wants to maintain the, the institution of the court and the, the, the court's reputation as being this, you know, um, arbiter that you can trust like this Godlike, you know, organization that like they never get it wrong.

Yeah. And so they don't, I don't think they want to go too far because that would undermine that.

Gotcha. So I, and forgive me, cause I am actually ignorant on this. So in Ohio right now, like it got, it got voted in or say it were to get voted in Arizona. Does that mean that abortion of the birth is immediately happening or is it one of these things where again, stuff's being held up?

Yeah. Yeah. So I actually don't know the answer to that.

I mean essentially it does mean that abortion till birth is, is, uh, you know, immediately. Okay. Yeah. Um, you know, that the laws that restrict abortion, um, definitely before viability are, are, are probably unenforceable.

And then after viability, there's probably going to be litigation on those. But, but I think the way it's worded, it's going to be, you know, pretty much a free for all.

So how is that going to affect the bills that we're putting in? So like, and I, Jeff actually, he's going to be back in Ohio and he was just there. We have, we're going to have a bill in Ohio. Um, so like, how was that going to affect our bills then?

Yeah. That's one of the things people are saying, right. Is this will not leave this open to legal challenge. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. And what I say is, you know, from a legal, from a true legal perspective, nothing has changed, right? The 14th amendment of the U S constitution still trumps the, this new constitutional amendment in Ohio and it would anywhere else that it passes it.

And so states still should pass equal protection bills because they're still constitutional and they're still what you should be doing at the state level. And then once you pass, once the legislature passes them, okay, now we're on to litigation about that.

Um, but absolutely it's still the right thing to do. And that's what we should do. And we need to treat these constitutional amendments like they're not worth the.

Paper they're written on because they're not.

Well, I mean, it's just, it's just mind boggling to me. If it got the fundamental role of government is to protect its citizens, right? The people under its care and literally in the language of the constitutional amendment says the government or the state may not interfere in a violent crime of homicide.

Right. It's commanding the state to stand down and to not prevent literal murder.

So, you know, it's interesting. Genesis nine, you have God, you know, he's giving civil authority to man here. Noah and his family. And he says, whoever sheds man's blood by man, shall his blood be shed for the image of God made he man.

And then the next thing God says is be fruitful, multiply, you know, like God, God, when he's saying protect innocent life, you know, provide justice for murder. And then the next, it's like the next thought that God has is about the conception of children.

Right. He's thinking of it in the same thought. And now here we are with these amendments saying we are not going to protect the life that God, you know, holds precious and it's the most vulnerable and innocent and we're going to reach in and we're going to say government, you can't stop us from reaching in and destroying this life in the place that, you know, it's so sacred.

Yeah.

It's so funny because all of these are touted as, you know, this should be between a woman and her doctor. The state shouldn't be involved and they're all a fundamental attack on the role of the state.

Yeah. Like, yeah, it's,.

It's infuriating. Well, that's a, that's a good place to transition. Transition is here. I'm going to, sorry, I needed to reset this. We'll, we'll just get right into the debate because a lot of the stuff we're saying is like brought up in the debate where I kind of like touching it, but I want to kind of get to it.

So, so before I, before I start this, I do want to say, I told Brad, I would say this. We do want to make a disclaimer that this is not a, we're not telling you to or not to vote for Trump. We're, we're, we're, this is, we're going to call out things that need to be called out.

This is all about the truth. So if I say, go vote for Trump, I'm going to have people mad at me. If I say, don't go vote for Trump, I'm going to have people mad at me. We're just going to speak the truth to you.

That's what this is about. And Trump needs to be called out on stuff. Obviously Harris is a hot piece of work, but we'll get into that as well. But we're all about the truth here. And so I just want to make that disclaimer before we get into this, you vote your conscience.

That's what I'm going to tell you. Okay. So we'll just, we'll just get right into this. This was at about the almost 16 minute Mark when the abortion question, I think it was like the second question, if I remember correctly, came up very early.

So we'll we'll just get into this. And then by the way, could you hear this Brad? When I played the commercial, could you hear it?

I could hear all the voices. Okay, cool.

I just want to make sure you're able to hear it so you know where we're at. So we'll get right into this. And then if you want to stop, just say something and I'll stop it.

I want to turn to the issue of abortion. President Trump, you've often touted that you were able to kill Roe v. Wade last year. You said that you were proud to be the most pro-life president in American history.

Then last month you said that your administration would be great for women and their reproductive rights in your home state of Florida. You surprised many with regard to your six week abortion ban because you initially had said that it was too short.

And you said, quote, I'm going to be voting that we need more than six weeks. But then the very next day you reversed course and said you would vote to support the six week ban. Vice president Harris says that women shouldn't trust you on the issue of abortion because you've changed your position so many times.

Therefore, why should they trust you?

Well, the reason I'm doing that vote is because the plan is, as you know, the voters, they have abortion in the ninth month. They even have, and you can look at the governor of West Virginia, the previous governor of West Virginia, not the current governor is doing an excellent job, but the governor before, he said the baby will be born and we will decide what to do with the baby.

In other words, we'll execute the baby. And that's why I did that because that predominates because they're radical. The Democrats are radical in that and her vice presidential pick, which I think is a horrible pick, by the way, for our country, because he is really out of it.

But her vice presidential pick says abortion in the ninth month is absolutely fine. He also says execution after birth. It's execution, no longer abortion because the baby is born is okay. And that's not okay with me.

Hence the vote. But what I did is something for 52 years. They've been trying to get Roe v. Wade into the states and through the genius and heart and strength of six Supreme Court justices, we were able to do that.

Now I believe in the exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother. I believe strongly in it. Ronald Reagan did also. 85 of Republicans do exceptions. Very important.

Okay, hold on. There's so much there. I don't want to get too far ahead. So one, if you missed it, they cornered him in somewhere else or something and asked him about the ballot initiative in Florida.