Discussing the Trump/Harris Debate w/Bradley Pierce

In Matthew 16 Jesus chastised the Pharisees who could interpret the appearance of the sky but failed to interpret the signs of the time in which they lived.

Who are the Pharisees of our day? This strong hold of sort of whiteness and white identity and pristineness is really part of what keeps us from making progress.

We need to do better. The church, rich in theological scholarship, has lingered in academic sanctuaries and ivory towers, failing to translate its lofty doctrines into a tangible and practical cultural apologetic.

At the Worldview Youth Academy we bridge this critical gap. Here theological depth is not an end in itself but a means to engage with contemporary cultural issues for the glory of God and the expansion of his kingdom.

Our mission is to cultivate thinkers who can articulate and apply Christian truths within contemporary societal challenges.

So embrace this call to worship God with all your heart, all your soul and with all your mind.

We will do better as this next generation tears down the idols of our modern culture and works to build a brighter future toward Christendom 2 .0.

Is he hung up on me? Yes! What? What?

What? What? Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men.

The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives. Don't go into the world and make homies.

Disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke,

Pastor. When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

Now therefore, O kings, be wise. Be warned, O rulers of the earth. Serve the

Lord with fear and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son lest he be angry and you perish in the way.

For his wrath is kindled quickly. Blessed are all who take refuge in him. That's one of my favorite verses.

Psalm 2, 10 through 12. And, of course, my favorite version of that verse is the

Ben Merkle transition. Kiss the Son or you get smoked, right? Kiss the Son lest you get smoked.

I love that. I mean, that's not far off the original Hebrew, I will say. It's more,

I think it really, really brings that verse together. Yeah.

Yeah. Welcome back to another episode of Apologia Radio. Luke DeBear hosting this week.

We were off last week as Pastor Jeff and I were in Louisiana having a pastor's meeting there at Brian Gunter's church, which went really well.

Trying to continue our work there for an abortion now. Speaking of Pastor Jeff, he is in South Carolina right now,

I believe. Or on his way for another pastor's meeting in South Carolina with our good friend

Matt Brock. So be praying for that. And I got to my left here,

Little Zeezers. That's me. We got a lot going on right now. Yeah. Yeah, there's some activity, of course, in our own state with our own local fight here and then abroad in different states.

New states even, bringing them into this fight and teaching and discipling the church and preaching

God's counsel on this issue. Yeah, besides the election and all these ballot initiatives and all this, we just officially have two more states that we're going to be putting bills in this year.

I don't even know. What's that put us up to? Twenty -ish? Yeah. So North Dakota and Illinois.

Come on, feel the Illinois. Yes, that's huge. That's a liberal state, at least as far as the government.

That's what I heard. Yeah. So I think the only other really democratic state we've tried has been

Colorado. So that's good. Yeah, which wasn't always historically that way. Right. That's more of a recent thing.

Right, exactly. So we got those. And we just heard from our guests, who I'll bring on in a minute, possibly two more states we've been trying hard on.

So that would put us up about 22, I think. Almost halfway there. That's exciting. That's exciting.

So before we get into the conversation, I would like to thank our partners.

One of them being Ion Layer, which Zach and I both completely forgot to wear our patches today, even though I had it laid out.

Next week, Ion It. We won't be here next week.

The week after that, Ion It. Hopefully Jeff's doing a show next week. We won't be here because we're going to be on our way to North Dakota.

One of our bills, we have a patch with me in North Dakota. Zach has shared the link for that if you are in North Dakota or South Dakota or anywhere that's close to there, which

I don't know if there's much close to there. We'll be in Bismarck. So that'll be next

Friday. Like I said, Zach shared the link on the X's. Yep, on our In Abortion Now X page.

So if you've got any questions, we'd love to see you there or if you're able to join us. And then we have—well,

Jeff's got a thing coming up here with our guest Bradley Pierce again, who I'll bring on in a second. And what else have we got?

We'll be going back to Germany here shortly as well to continue our In Abortion Now work.

Ohio, Kentucky are in the mix a little bit too. I know Ohio guys got a bill. They've been working really hard to get in there.

Yeah, a lot going on. So back to Ion Layer. I got distracted. We love

Ion Layer and NAD. We've all benefited greatly physically from their product, and we're glad to partner with them.

You can go to ionlayer .com and put APOLOGY in the coupon code to get a sweet discount. It's like Oprah today.

We're throwing out discounts left and right. We'll get to that. You get a car, and you get a car.

You get a discount. You get a discount. So I'd also like to thank

Heritage Defense, heritagedefense .org. And actually, since Brad is our guest today,

I'm going to let him tell you about Heritage Defense and the sweet discount you can get with Heritage Defense.

Bradley, what's up, brother? Welcome back. Hey, thanks for having me. Great to be with you all.

We love Brad. He's one of our favorite people in the world. I mean that. And he's a really awesome

Texan. And he has 35 .3 children. He's got a lot of babies.

He's got a lot of babies. A lot of babies. What's up, brother? We're doing great.

All 37 .3s are doing great. So tell us about Heritage Defense.

Why should people have that service? Yeah, so Heritage Defense, Christian homeschooling families, or even if you're not homeschooling, if your children just are not school age yet, you know, parental rights are a big issue.

The government doesn't like the way a lot of Christians are raising their children in fear of the

Lord. And so we started this organization in 2010 to provide a defense for Christian homeschooling families and families with young children to have someone that they can call 24 -7, get connected with an attorney, have someone there to defend your parental rights, deal with any kind of false allegations of abuse or neglect or anything overblown, and just so you're not alone.

That way you have an advocate, you have an attorney, and you can call us 24 -7. It's included with your membership, and we hire an attorney for you in your area, and all that's included as part of the membership with Heritage Defense.

Yes, highly recommend it. And I don't know if you know who Mike Glover is, either of you.

He's an ex -ranger, I think. He has a popular podcast called

Fieldcraft Survival, a bunch of stuff. Anyways, not a Christian, but he, well, I think he would say he is, but he had a situation just this last year where, you know,

DCS was called. I think he's up in Idaho, I believe. Just crazy situation where he ended up in jail for a while and, like, never should have happened.

Just crazy, and I'm like, man, if he had Heritage Defense, that wouldn't have happened. I don't have time to get into the details.

It was a crazy story, but I was like, man, that's crazy. So, yes, if you're homeschooling, please go to HeritageDefense .org.

Sign up before the show's over. You have an hour to do so. Bradley, what else do you have going on right now?

Before we're going to get into the Trump -Harris debate, and especially on the abortion topic, but Brad's got a couple things coming up that are pretty exciting, so tell us about those.

Yeah, so the second, well, actually, both of these involve Jeff. First of all, I'll talk about is our new docu -series that we produced with our friends at Rescue Those called

Abortion Free, and that just kind of, it's six episodes, about 30 minutes each, that follows

Megan as she discovers what's going on with abortion after Dobbs overturned

Roe, and she finds out it's not what most people are told and not what most people think is what's going on.

So Jeff's one of the folks on there as well, and I highly recommend people check it out,

AbortionFree .com, or you can go up to our YouTube page, Foundation to Abolish Abortion, and watch that.

Yeah, actually, so while that's a good, I'll play the trailer here real quick, I have it pulled up. Yeah, it's on YouTube, and I actually linked the trailer in the description if you guys want to check that out, but I'll go ahead and,

Gabe, if you want to pull it up, I'll go ahead and play that real quick. Roe v. Wade has been overturned.

We did it! In 11 states, abortion is effectively banned. My name is

Megan. Now that I'm pregnant with my first baby, I care more about protecting life than ever. I keep seeing pro -life headlines say some states are abortion -free, including mine.

But are they? I want to find out what's really going on.

We don't see any abortions being reported to the Department of Health. Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama, and Oklahoma are seeing the biggest increases in requests for abortion pills.

So, since Roe v. Wade has been overturned, is abortion illegal in South Carolina? I think so, yes. Is abortion illegal in Oklahoma?

Yes. Is abortion illegal in Texas? Yes. No, it's not illegal. On Mayday .Health,

we tell you how people are still getting pills by mail. So I got both abortion pills that I ordered in the mail.

Now the whole culture is the abortion clinic. If what we've been doing isn't working, what should we do?

Abolitionism versus being pro -life, those are two different things. The biggest distinction between the pro -life movement and the abolitionist movement is we engage biblically.

We're just asking for the law that we have to be applied consistently for every image -bearer of God.

The goal is that everyone gets equal justice under law. Why can't we just make laws protecting unborn babies the same as born babies?

We had a bill of equal protection put in. It was actively opposed publicly and behind closed doors by the leader of the pro -life establishment.

Kentucky Right to Life opposing a new bill that would criminalize abortion. Why would pro -life leaders oppose that?

For the record, Susan Klein representing Missouri Right to Life in opposition to the prosecution of women. Can't we all agree that we are not going to put a woman in jail or give her the death penalty if she gets an abortion?

We do not support penalizing them for getting the abortion. Every single bill that they write, they write in there, this doesn't apply to the mother.

Women are victims of abortion whether they claim that for themselves or not.

There's a huge infantilizing of women. Women are not victims of abortion. Women are choosing abortion.

My abortion was the best decision I ever made. It was an act of self -love. They have no problem understanding that they are murdering a child.

Many of them celebrate that fact. She has murder on her mind as she twerks in front of Planned Parenthood.

The crazy reality is in these states that say they're abortion free now, abortion has never been easier.

I could abort my baby in any of the 50 states. Excellent.

Well yeah guys, check that out please and go support Bradley and the work they're doing there.

And then you also got a big conference coming up, so tell us about that. We do, we're very excited about that.

October 18th, one day, conference on a Friday, about 10 minutes from the DFW airport,

Dallas area. Equipping the Saints to Abolish Abortion. We've got Jeff Durbin coming along with Tom Askell with Founders Ministries.

We've got Josh Bice and Virgil Walker with G3 Ministries. Phil George, pastor of a local church here.

Dusty Devers, Oklahoma senator. And Brett Baggett, head of Rescue Those, Oklahoma pastor.

And I'm going to be speaking as well. We're going to be talking about what's really going on. How should pastors be leading their flocks and teaching about this.

How can we be soft and light and not just under a bushel and not just thrown out. But actually engaging with the culture and standing at the gates.

And talking about issues about also IVF, birth control.

And I'm going to be doing a talk specifically on are increments okay? You know, we all want to get from here to there and abolish abortion.

Are there some things that are lawful and some things that are unlawful? Are there some things that help the cause and some things that hurt the cause?

And we're going to be talking about that. Awesome. Love for people to come to that. And so you were going to give a discount to that as well, correct?

Exactly. For all of your listeners, followers of End Abortion Now. There's a promo code.

Right now we're getting close to October 18th. So we're in the late bird pricing if you will.

But you can get the early bird pricing. The late bird. Yeah. The late bird. The late bird can still get the worm here with the promo code

EAN60. So that's EAN60 to get the early bird pricing for all your listeners.

Excellent. Yeah, man. I'm excited for that. I wish I could be there. Oh, it's going to be great.

I just think it's, I mean, the work that you're doing, man, alongside us and other like -minded organizations is just so important right now.

Like I look at that docuseries and we've blown the trumpet on this so many times.

Just like the effect that this has had on the broader cultural conversation of understanding that this hasn't gone anywhere.

It's just been made more accessible, more affordable, more anonymous for people to obtain.

And it's actually put us in a really challenging position at the state level with these ballot measures too.

Because if you think about it from a standpoint of responsibility, I mean the Supreme Court, as you've said before,

Bradley, they kind of wash their hands of the responsibility of these children. And then we have our highest leaders who are washing their hands and saying, give it to the states.

And then you have the church by and large saying, no, we're going to wash our hands and not defend the fatherless.

And then you have mothers and fathers at the street level who are saying, no, we're not going to take responsibility for our children.

We're going to wash our hands of that. And then you have the state at an individual level rising up and saying, well, let's let the people decide.

Let's just put it up to a vote and let everybody go their own way on this and violate the constitution and the law of God and all the rest.

And it just seems like the problem is that nobody wants to take responsibility for these children.

Exactly right. Yeah. I mean, even we, you know, we have we're fighting with everything we got right now about initiative here in Arizona that I've heard if pass is going to be like the worst of all of them, that's what

I've been reading. And it's, I mean, we're, we're got bill billboards up.

We got, we're putting signs up. We're doing everything we can, but the sign that we keep seeing around that's it's from the pro -life movement, pro -life industry in Arizona.

It's what is it? It's a, it goes too far. It goes too far. Yeah. So they were, they were involved with a lot of the group in Ohio where they had the recent amendment and that same strategy failed this idea of, you know, protect women.

This is an issue of women's healthcare and all the rest that morally ambiguous language, which confuses people.

And I think really led to the outcome that you saw in Ohio by and large. Yeah. So the issue is not that it's murder.

It's it's, this goes a little too far. Don't you guys think it's a little, it's too extreme. Yeah. Too extreme. Late term abortion is too extreme.

It's crazy. So yeah, that's what we're up against. But real quick, before we get into the debate,

Bradley, I know we've had you on this talk about this specifically before the ballot initiatives, but as a constitutional lawyer, can you just explain to our listeners, maybe they're not up to date on these, how these work.

And it's my understanding these actually, I mean, they're trying to undermine the democratic process in our, in our nation.

And so can you just explain briefly like what we're up against and what these are going to do?

Yeah. So these ballot initiatives are, you know, instituted by or initiated by citizens, right.

Of the state that they, if they get enough signatures, then they can get a question on the ballot to put something into the state's law or the state's constitution and, and really override the whole

Republican form of government. You know, the U S constitution says that every state must guarantee a Republican form of government, but these ballot initiatives in the states that allow them got like short circuit all that and say, you know what,

Hey, let's just have majority rule. You know, like what is it like, you know, three wolves voting on whether to eat the two lambs kind of thing.

And it's, it's just a total majority rule. Everyone does what's right in their own eyes, kind of a situation, you know, not bound by, you know, they're, we're going to amend the constitution.

And again, a lot of it is, you know, they're hoping low information voters come out and that's worth the stuff and don't really know what's going on.

And that they tried, then they try to confuse the people who actually do know what's going on or, or should, and they can't figure out and they stay home.

So these are just things that most of these say that there's a fundamental right to an abortion.

And they say, Oh, it's a fundamental right to abortion up to viability. And, but then they say, and then after that, abortion is a right in the case of health.

And then health is totally undefined mental health, not just physical, right? And so it's like, it's, it's abortion up to nine months.

Because if you get a chiropractor to say, you know, being pregnant is going to make your back hurt a little bit, then,

Oh, health, I can get an abortion because of that. So a lot of them are saying, you know, like,

Oh, this is only for viability to viability, which is already evil and horrific. Sure. But they're actually the way they're worded.

It would actually allow abortions all the way up to nine months. So there's, this is, these are horrible.

Can I ask a quick question about that? The process of the citizen led initiatives. I mean, we have our form of government for a reason, the rule of law, the process by which we can change laws from a legal perspective, a constitutional perspective.

Is this a legitimate way to change a law? Like, is this ever morally acceptable to put an issue like this up to a popular vote?

Like, I feel like as a Christian, I would look at it and say, well, we would need to have a nation full of moral people and we don't.

And so God help us for entrusting something like this to the people who more oftentimes want evil than not.

But even in a state like ours, I'm not convinced that the majority of Arizonans want this. I think this is funded externally.

It's the result of infrastructure and money money coming from outside in to influence. And as you said, confuse voters and deceive people and mislead them into doing this.

But that's my question is, is this ever legitimate to change the law like this from a constitutional perspective?

I don't think so. I think it violates, it violates the constitution. Like I said, Republican form of government guarantee, because this is your

Republican form of government is you elect people who then represent people and then they can then pass laws and things like that.

Right. This completely bypasses that. This is a pure democracy form of government.

And yeah, I think it's unconstitutional and it's certainly unconstitutional in this instance because the 14th amendment says no state should deny to any person within its jurisdiction, the equal protection of the laws.

And now we have this, now we have states like Ohio and your state and lots of other states around the country right now deciding, well, do we, do we want to deny equal protection or not?

And not only does that violate God's law, but it violates the U S constitution. So really these should, they shouldn't be even be allowed to vote on this because they violate the

Supreme ball to land the U S constitution. Yeah. They're just seizing that opportunity to do it and circumventing the process that we have.

And this is what the Supreme court, you know, this is what the Supreme court, this is the problem with Dobbs, you know, the, the

Dobbs case said, you know, we're, we're, we're turning this back.

And what's interesting though is that the Supreme court actually said, we're returning this to the people's representatives. So it actually, even the

Dobbs case, you could argue like, wait, even the Dobbs case doesn't allow for this. But it is basically the

Supreme court saying, Hey, we're out of it. And in this case, you know, it is, it was the

Supreme court, like you said, washing their hands, just saying, all right, y 'all figure this out. And you know, even though it, even though the constitution screams that states must provide equal protection, the

Supreme court just totally ignored that. Yeah. Yeah. So that was something in the debate. I'll hold off getting into that too deep yet.

Cause there was something Trump talked about. I want to make sure we discuss. So in regards to these amendments, so I know when you had you on before, when this one first popped up in Ohio, I think you had said that what's going to result from this is years of litigation and going through all the layers of courts.

And so from your perspective, do you see like, so just say Ohio, for example, cause it's already been passed or voted in, in Ohio.

Like you, you see it going to making its way up to the Supreme court and then them eventually having to make a ruling on whether or not it's constitutional.

I think at some point, I think that's where it'll get to. I think right now the Supreme court doesn't really have the stomach to rule on equal protection.

And, and so I think, even though the Ohio new

Ohio constitutional amendment violates constitution, the U S constitution, I think the, the federal courts are just going to let it for now.

And, um, because it's, you know, they've just kind of returned it to the States, you know, as, as Trump has said, um, and they're not going to step in.

You think there are, even though they're afraid, you think they're afraid like they're afraid of the mob? Um, I don't know if they're, you know, afraid of the mob, like personally, personally,

I think, I think there's some, some courageous people on the court in that sense. I don't know that I'd say they're like personally afraid personally, but, but I think that they're,

I think they're afraid of the mob that the mob could just tear the country apart. Um, and, and, and completely, um, you know, just undermine, undermine the

Republic, so to speak by, if the, if the court goes too far, then, you know, you could have, you could have some real problems.

That's scary. I think, I think that's what they're afraid of. I think, I think they want to, especially Roberts, you know, he wants to maintain the, the institution of the court and the, the, the court's reputation as being this, you know, um, arbiter that you can trust like this godlike, you know, organization that like they never get it wrong.

Yeah. And so they don't, I don't think they want to go too far because that would undermine that. Gotcha. So I, and forgive me, because I'm actually ignorant on this.

So in Ohio right now, like it got, it got voted in or say it were to get voted in Arizona. Does that mean that abortion of the birth is immediately happening or is it one of these things where, again, stuff's being held up.

You gotta see how it shakes out. Yeah. Yeah. So I actually don't know the answer to that. I mean, essentially it does mean that abortion till birth is, is, uh, you know, immediately.

Okay. Yeah. Um, you know, that the laws that restrict abortion, um, definitely before viability are, are probably unenforceable and then after viability, there's probably going to be litigation on those.

But, but I think the way it's worded, it's going to be, you know, pretty much a free for all.

So how is that going to affect the bills that we're putting in? So like, and I, Jeff actually, he's going to be back in Ohio and he was just there.

We have, we're going to have a bill in Ohio. Um, so like how was that going to affect our bills then?

Yeah. That's one of the things people are saying, right. It's this will not leave this open to legal challenge. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And what

I say is, you know, from a legal, from a true legal perspective, nothing has changed, right?

The 14th amendment of the U S constitution still trumps the, this new constitutional amendment in Ohio and it would anywhere else that it passes it.

And so states still should pass equal protection bills because they're still constitutional and they're still what you should be doing at the state level.

And then once you pass, once the legislature passes them, okay, now we're on to litigation about that.

Um, but absolutely it's still the right thing to do. And we should do and we need to treat these constitutional amendments like they're not worth the paper they're written on because they're not.

Well, I mean, it's just, it's just mind boggling to me. If it got the fundamental role of government is to protect its citizens, right?

The people under its care. And literally in the language of the constitutional amendment says the government or the state may not interfere in a violent crime of homicide.

Right. It's commanding the state to stand down and to not prevent literal murder.

So, you know, it's interesting. Genesis nine, you have God, you know, he's giving civil authority to man here.

Noah is in this family and he says, whoever sheds man's blood by man shall his blood be shed for the image of God made he man.

And then the next thing God says is be fruitful and multiply. You know, like God, God, when he's saying protect innocent life, you know, provide justice for murder.

And then the next, it's like the next thought that God has is about the conception of children.

Right. He's thinking of it in the same thought. And now here we are with these amendments saying we are not going to protect the life that God, you know, holds precious and it's the most vulnerable and innocent and we're going to reach in and we're going to say government, you can't stop us from reaching in and destroying this life in a place that, you know, it's so sacred.

Yeah. It's so funny. Cause all of these are touted as, you know, this should be between a woman and her doctor.

The state shouldn't be involved and they're all a fundamental attack on the role of the state. Yeah. Like, yeah, it's, it's infuriating.

Well, that's a, that's a good place to transition. Transition is here. I'm going to, uh, sorry,

I needed to reset this. Um, we'll, we'll just get right into the debate. Cause a lot of the stuff we're saying is like brought up in the debate and we're kind of like touching it, but I want to kind of get to it.

So, um, so before I, before I start this, I do want to say, I told Brad, I would say this, um, we do want to make a disclaimer that this is not a, a, uh, we're not telling you to or not to vote for Trump.

We're, we're, we're, uh, this is, we're going to call out things that need to be called out. This is all about the truth.

So if I say, go vote for Trump, I'm going to have people mad at me. If I say, don't go vote for Trump, I'm going to have people mad at me.

We're just going to speak the truth to you. That's what this is about. And Trump needs to be called out on stuff. Obviously Harris is a hot piece of work, but we'll get into that as well.

Um, but we're all about the truth here. And so I just want to make that disclaimer before we get into this, you vote your conscience.

That's what I'm going to tell you. Okay. So we'll just, uh, we'll just get right into this.

This was at, uh, about the almost 16 minute mark when the abortion question, I think it was like the second question, if I remember correctly came up very early.

So we'll, uh, we'll just get into this and then, by the way, could you hear this Brad when I played the commercial, could you hear it?

I could hear all the voices. Okay, cool. I just want to make sure you're able to hear it so you know where we're at. Um, so we'll get right into this.

And then if you want to stop, just say something and I'll stop it. I want to turn to the issue of abortion.

President Trump, you've often touted that you were able to kill Roe V. Wade last year. You said that you were proud to be the most pro -life president in American history.

Then last month you said that your administration would be great for women and their reproductive rights in your home state of Florida.

You surprised many with regard to your six week abortion ban, because you initially had said that it was too short.

And you said, quote, I'm going to be voting that we need more than six weeks. But then the very next day you reversed course and said you would vote to support the six week ban.

Vice president Harris says that women shouldn't trust you on the issue of, of abortion because you've changed your position so many times.

Therefore, why should they trust you? Well, the reason I'm doing that vote is because the plan is, as you know, the voters, they have abortion in the ninth month.

They even have, and you can look at the governor of West Virginia, the previous governor of West Virginia, not the current governor's doing an excellent job, but the governor before he said the baby will be born and we will decide what to do with the baby.

In other words, we'll execute the baby. And that's why I did that because that predominates because they're radical.

The Democrats are radical in that and her vice presidential pick, which I think is a horrible pick, by the way, for our country, because he is really out of it.

But her vice presidential pick says abortion in the ninth month is absolutely fine.

He also says execution after birth. It's execution. No longer abortion because the baby is born is okay.

And that's not okay with me. Hence the vote. But what I did is something for 52 years, they've been trying to get

Roe V. Wade into the states and through the genius and, and heart and strength of six

Supreme court justices, we were able to do that. Now I believe in the exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother.

I believe strongly in it. Ronald Reagan did also 85 % of Republicans do. Exceptions.

Very important. Okay. Hold on. There's so much there. I don't want to get too far ahead. So, so one, if you missed it, he, you know, they cornered him in somewhere else or something to ask them about the ballot initiative in Florida.

He didn't directly answer it. That's one thing. He said there needed to be more time.

One thing about this debate, if you watched it, they're really, both of them are really good at not actually answering questions.

So that's what happened. He kind of got pinned on it, but didn't really answer it, but he was like, Oh, that's not enough time, blah, blah, blah.

And there was a ton of backlash from prominent pro -life figures. And then very quickly came out and said,

Oh no, no, I'm not going to before that. So what he's saying is right though, that the, the, you know, the extreme leftists, they want, they want this.

They want to be able to murder their children, even after birth if they decide, you know. And by the way, that does really happen.

It's not a myth. Late term abortion is not a myth. And to his credit, even in states like Minnesota where Tim Walz was the governor, it happened also.

Yeah. So he's right about that. He's absolutely right. And of course, Harris just trying to laugh it off like he's full of it, but this, he's absolutely correct on that.

On that point, you want to say anything Brad and then obviously we'll get to the exception stuff, but, well,

I mean, look at the world that we live in where, you know, he says that,

Oh yeah, you should be able to murder a baby because of the sins of this, of his father, because of the way the baby was conceived.

You should be able to murder a baby. Like he said, Oh, six weeks is not enough time.

You should be able to murder a baby a little beyond six weeks. We don't know how long he thinks is okay, but beyond six weeks, which is, you know, when that's when a lot of abortions are happening.

You know, we need to be able to murder babies like that. And with he's, he calls the

Democrats position radical because, Oh, we can murder him up to nine months. It's like saying, Oh, well, it's, you know, murdering, murdering a 10 year old, you radicals, you know, only murder one year old.

It's like, wait, wait, wait. I think, I think you're all radicals. Okay. I think you're all extremists and, and anyone who doesn't think that needs to check ourselves and, and wash ourselves in the water of God's word and say like, man, we've, the fact that our natural like reaction to that is,

Oh yeah, those radical Democrats. And that certainly it is, but we should also be saying, wow, this radical national

Republican party and national Republican candidates that we have is radical, you know, in, in wanting people to be able to murder children at all, but even beyond six weeks and you know, we're, we just, we're living in a pretty, pretty bad place.

I struggled to contextualize that we have anything more here than two pro abortion candidates. I mean, one may be more vociferous and upfront about their intentions.

Um, but what you just heard articulated there was exactly another problem.

You know, murder up to this arbitrarily designated point is perfectly fine.

And then, um, I feel like the question is a legitimate one because everything he has said on this has been muddy and he has been populist in his framing and which is how some of it is supposed to work.

We're supposed to be vocal about the fact that life begins at fertilization and all life needs to be protected. And then he responds to that in some manner and says, no, um,

I've got to keep this part of my base, right? Which your point is more about the pandering, um, you know, to the people in the middle and those of us that do maintain a strong stance for life.

So there's just a ton of consistency here. Inconsistency. And I think his positions force him into a schizophrenic standpoint.

Like he's, he's, he's trying to hold so much together, but there's no standard at the bottom of it.

This is either murder or it isn't. Right. I mean, that's what it comes down to the, uh, and this is something none of,

I mean, no one should be surprised by this and then people, you know, whenever he said, uh, you know, that,

Hey, there needs to be more time and at least implied that he would be voting, you know, for the Florida amendment.

Um, there's huge reaction to that finally, you know, by, by, by, by Christians and the pro -life movement.

And, um, you know, the issue is in 2022 he, he said after the midterm didn't go nearly as well as Republicans thought they would.

He came out and said at that point, Hey, we're too strong on abortion. We need to water it down.

That's why we lost. We've got to win elections. You know, we need to, we need to compromise on this.

I mean, everybody knew where he was on this issue. Sure. Um, and what he was going to be doing in this election.

And so that, that's when, you know, people should have reacted and said, absolutely not.

No way. Are we watering down on this? This is why we have a government in the first place. This is why we have a country, you know, and the nation and the

Republic in the first place is to protect. If it's not to protect innocent life, then what are we all here for? Um, and, and, but they didn't.

And he kind of got away with that. People were like, yeah, you're right. We gotta, we gotta compromise to win elections.

And I think one of the reasons that people did react, you know, to what he said recently is because he's, he's doing well and, and they think, okay, he may actually win.

We have a chance of winning this so we can push back a little. Um, and maybe he'll still win.

Um, whereas back then, I think they were like, you know what we probably do need to at least be quiet and, and let him get away with this.

Um, and, and, you know, and that's what, that's what's happened. That's what happened. Yeah. So I put a lot of this on the fall to, you know,

Christians that we, we we've allowed this, we've, we've allowed him to get away. It's been a lot of compromises up to this point talking like this without us pushing back.

Yeah. I mean, obviously he said right there, he's all for exceptions. And then I don't need the statistic that 85 % of Republicans, I mean,

I don't know if that's accurate or not, uh, but, uh, I'd like to know where he's getting that number. Yeah.

But, uh, I mean, this is, it's affected us directly in Arizona here. We had this year what they overturned the law.

That's the thing is it's, it's, it's having a discipling effect on all these other conservative, even

Christian organizations. Like let's kind of not focus on this. Like let's not highlight the fact that this position is so utterly compromised and abominable because if we do, that's going to prevent us from winning.

Yeah. Yep. Okay. So let's move on. Well, and just speaking of that, they're in Arizona. Yeah. Whenever the, uh, you know, the court said,

Oh, you can enforce the pre -roll ban there. You know, Trump came out even though Trump's been like, Hey, leave it to the

States. You know, he came actually out and said, Oh no, that goes too far. That's too extreme.

Even though it's still allowed self -managed abortion mobs to order pills and do it. It's like, no, no, no, that's, that's too extreme.

And then that provided cover to what was it? Two Republican legislators voted to repeal that.

Him being weak on that doesn't just affect things at the federal level. It affects it at the state level too.

Yep. You're exactly right. Um, okay. Keep going. But we were able to get it and now

States are voting on it. And for the first time, you're going to see, look, this is an issue that's torn our country apart for 52 years.

Every legal scholar, every Democrat, every Republican, liberal, conservative, they all wanted this issue to be brought back to the

States where the people could vote. And that's what happened happened. And now Ohio, the vote was somewhat liberal.

Kansas, the vote was somewhat liberal, much more liberal than people would have thought. But each individual state is voting.

It's the vote of the people. Now it's not tied up in the federal government. I did a great service in doing it. It took courage to do it.

And the Supreme court had great courage in doing it. And I give tremendous credit to those six justices.

There is no state in this country where it is legal to kill a baby after it's born. Okay. Don't you love how they're, they jump in there and just throw their old day fact -checked

Trump, the, the entire thing, which was just so anyways, come on. So, okay.

So this is actually, this is the conversation I was alluding to. So I want to hear your take on this

Brad, because on one hand, right. We, our nation is a constitutional

Republic, right. And the different things should go to the states, right. To vote and each individual state, that's how our nation was established.

However, when it comes to this specific conversation, right.

Because we're dealing with, like you mentioned the 14th amendment and, and the, you know, the right to life, right.

So so I just want to hear your response to what Trump's saying and even how the support of the

Supreme court then in Dobbs, how they, they could have been courageous and, you know, but they instead kind of pass the buck to the states.

So I just want to hear your, your take on that conversation. Yeah. Should we just let states vote to decide whether to have slavery or not?

Yeah. Right. Which is why the 14th amendment is a thing, right? Right. I mean, at one time we did, we didn't have a 14th amendment and we did let states decide stuff like that.

And, and again, I think that that's, I think that's fine. Really.

I think, I think that before the 14th amendment was fine, the problem was states abuse that.

And, and they, they, you know, we saw the judgment of God, the civil war. And then we saw the 14th amendment saying, okay, we need to take this out of the power of the states on this issue of equal protection of the laws at the very least laws about life, liberty and property.

Um, that's now taken. The 14th amendment took that out of the sole jurisdiction of the states and said,

Hey, or, you know, or states, you know, it's, it's your jurisdiction, but it has to be equal protection.

You have to provide equal protection. And that's, that's, that's why, yeah. States, you can't, you can't have slavery, you know, and you can't say, well, this law protects people who are this skin color, but not this skin.

You can't do that anymore. No more of that. War after the patch of the 14th amendment.

And so what Trump is basically saying is, you know, if we just apply the issue of slavery, he's like, actually let's go back.

Let's let's go back and let's just let the states decide slavery. Let's just let the states decide, you know, whether people get discriminated against in our laws, you know, based upon whether they've been born yet or not, or whether, or what have you, you know, that's what kind of in this debate, if you kind of compare this to slavery right now, we are back in 1750.

You know, where no state has abolished abortion and every state is just deciding whatever it wants to do.

And, and we're seeing a lot of states decide, and really, really every state at this point, deciding we need to have at least some abortions, right.

We need to let some people murder babies or let everyone murder babies up to a certain point.

And that's where we are. And that's not, I mean, it's just going to cry out more for the judgment of God because of this child sacrifice.

So. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. That's, that's an excellent way to describe that because I mean, ultimately like we're saying, yeah, this, the state should have, you know, the ability to, to make their own laws as long as they don't, you know,

Trump the, you know, I'm not saying that name facetiously, you know, the, the

U S constitution. So we're saying at this point it would override this, the

U S constitution because it's not providing equal protection for all life. And again,

I, I'm all for states rights. I mean, I'm a big states rights guy, but this is how you lose states rights by, by, you know, it's kind of one of those you'll either be governed by God or by God, you will be governed.

And, and, and, you know, whenever you, whenever you're not being governed by God and you're abusing that, then you're going to see tyranny.

And that's what we saw, you know, with Roe and, and that's, you know, we're, we're headed to more judgment.

Sure. That's, that's interesting. The connection between absolute autonomy and tyranny, right?

Because that, that absolute autonomy often descends into anarchy, into lawlessness.

And that lawlessness then needs to be reined in by a power stronger than itself. And if that won't be

God and his word and his law and a higher law that we can point to that transcends us, it will be the strong arm of whoever has the bigger gun in the end.

Yep. So what, forgive me, what was the fact check? She just dropped right before I stopped and I completely forgot.

She said that that doesn't happen. Babies born alive from botched abortions and then left to die.

I'm going to fact check her on that one. Yeah. Which, which if I'm not mistaken, Kamala Harris voted in opposition to that.

And we'd probably say that that was more of a ceremonial law by the pro -life establishment, kind of a throwaway, like,

Oh, please just give us the crumbs of at least, at least save the babies that are born alive from the botched abortions.

Like at least do that. But the fact that, you know, we have a presidential candidate that is so wicked to go against even rescuing life that has exited the womb and now needs help to survive just saying, we're going to leave that child to die.

I mean, I don't think you can fully express the level of depravity. Yep. Well, and after that, the fact checkers, fact check, the fact checkers here afterwards, and they saw that, you know,

Tim Walz's own state, I think last year there were eight, eight reported born alive and then left to die.

Yep. Yep, exactly. All right. So here we're going to get into, you thought Trump was extreme.

Vice president want to get your response to president Trump? Well, as I said, you're going to hear a bunch of lies. And that's not actually a surprising fact.

Let's understand how we got here. Donald Trump hand selected three members of the

United States Supreme court with the intention that they would undo the protections of Roe v. Wade. And they did exactly as he intended.

Over 20 States, there are Trump abortion bans, which make it criminal for a doctor or nurse to provide healthcare.

In one state, it provides prison for life. Trump. Sorry, murder, not healthcare.

Portion bands that make no exception even for rape and incest, which understand what that means.

A survivor of a crime of violation to their body does not have the right to make a decision about what happens to their body next.

That is immoral. Wait a minute. I think the most, no, on a very real note,

I think the most, I think the most concerning thing here is how passionate she is about this.

Oh yeah. I mean, and that's why this election honestly is coming down to this issue. I think, I mean the, because if you listen to her speak on the other topics that were addressed here on, on no other topic,

I think does she speak so passionately? Like this is a woman that is so in love with abortion as a sacrament of religious worship that it must be protected at all costs.

Um, you know, whatever we have to do to protect the murder of innocent children, that's what we're going to do.

And you can, I believe that she believes it. Yeah. I believe that a human being, a human heart could be so self -deceived as to create such a level of cognitive dissonance as I'm sure you're going to touch on a second,

Bradley, um, because of the moral spiritual problem of rebellion against God that you could actually try and maintain in your mind to simultaneous things like we need to protect innocent people's bodies from being violated.

Yeah. And then on the other side, we're going to violate the bodily autonomy of this innocent human being by completely destroying them.

And calling it moral, calling it morally good. Even to the point of her commenting, well, you don't need to relinquish your faith commitments in order to support this.

So now she's bringing the religion, which by the way, this is interesting. That was the only comment about religion or God in the entire debate was her invoking the word faith, a faith commitment.

You don't have to relinquish your faith commitment to be for abortion, the murder of children.

Yeah. This is literally Romans chapter one. I mean, she's literally flipping morality on its head doing the one 80.

So Brad, I I'm dying to hear it because Brad about came out of his seat. You couldn't see it, but I could see it.

I mean, it's just, it's just like, she's just, wait a second.

What you just said, violating the, you know, bodies of innocent people.

Like, I mean, that's what abortion is. What are, what are you, you know, and that just comes down to this whole, um, the hands of the wicked are swift to shed blood, you know?

And it's, it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's just, you know, it's a total might makes right argument here.

Which is consistent with Marxism, communism. You know, I have more people with me and we have more power than you do.

So you're going to do what we say. Yeah. I mean, just this whole, how dare you tell a woman what she can do with her body?

And then I'm saying, how dare you not allow this baby to have the right to decide what to do with their own body.

Um, so we'll go, we'll just do a couple more minutes of this and then Brad's got to get going not too long from now so we'll try to do what we can here.

Does not have to abandon their faith or deeply held beliefs to agree the government and Donald Trump certainly should not be telling a woman what to do with her body.

I have talked with women around our country you want to talk about this is what people wanted pregnant women who want to carry a pregnancy to term suffering from a miscarriage being denied care in an emergency room because the health care providers are afraid they might go to jail and she's bleeding out in a car in the parking lot she didn't want that her husband didn't want that.

When did that happen? Yep okay Brad go take it run. Where was that one when did that happen?

Right. Not happening fake news. Yep I mean that was this was uh one of the big criticisms from the pro -life industry.

Exactly. They came out against us in Louisiana. Yeah you're going to criminalize women that get miscarriages.

That's when I first heard that argument was against us from the pro -life movement and now they've stolen that. Or ectopic pregnancies.

Yeah oh it's crazy. Right so all yeah just to say one thing about that is all of these things already have provisions within our current existing law that protects physicians in these situations that are medical triage in which you know he's trying to treat the woman and the baby and preserve as much life as possible.

Yeah. And he is not held liable for trying to save as much life as he can right?

He's not penalized for helping a woman for example who has miscarried. That's not an abortion right?

Abortion is the intentional destruction of a living human being.

Miscarriage is something different altogether. Obviously in a fallen world the lines are not as clear often as we would like them to be but that's why the law to the best of our ability doesn't penalize doctors for upholding the oath that they took to do no harm.

Exactly. Exactly right. Okay. A 12 or 13 year old survivor of incest being forced to carry a pregnancy to term?

They don't want that. And I pledge to you when Congress passes a bill to put back in place the protections of Roe v

Wade as President of the United States I will proudly sign it into law.

But understand if Donald Trump were to be re -elected he will sign a national abortion ban.

Understand in his project 2025 there would be a national abortion a monitor that would be monitoring your pregnancies, your miscarriage.

I think the American people believe that certain freedoms in particular the freedom to make decisions about one's own body should not be made by the government.

Thank you Vice President. You know not to start a fight here but I think this is the exact moment of the debate that Taylor Swift was sitting at home with her cat saying

I'm going to make an Instagram post saying I endorse Kamala Harris now she's my candidate. Yeah. Yeah I mean like I said

I think this election comes down to this conversation and I think that's why the Republicans have tried so hard to ignore it or sweep it under the rug or not speak boldly on it.

But I mean that's just a monitor like what it's like what are you talking about? That's unconstitutional.

What? No again something else something else you know Bob can

I take you know or Alex can I take you know things that never happened that will never happen or never happen for a thousand please.

Yeah. I'm sorry I said Bob I'm mixing up my parts. Well and then yeah

Alex we'll end it there because I know Brad's gonna get going here soon when we can actually can carry this into the after show but I think this is where Trump's like he goes because he said he's gonna sign an abortion and he goes well we don't even have to have this conversation because it ain't gonna happen because it'll never pass and get on my desk which is right which is sad it's really sad that's where we're at but he's right about that.

But of course he doesn't answer the question because he's an expert at avoiding answering questions. But anyways we'll end on that point do you want to add anything to that?

Just the comment about forcing women to carry a pregnancy against their will and all of this.

It's just euphemistic pro -abortion language for you know they want to be able to kill the baby.

Yeah. That's that's what we're talking about. Exactly. Right. First of all abortion is more often than not an intentional decision made between two parties in which they conduct an act that tends toward sexual reproduction.

Right. You live in God's world you do this and babies happen like that's how

God made the world. Yeah. So no one is forcing anyone to carry a pregnancy against their will and in the event of the unthinkable happens and a woman is violated she doesn't then as the victim of a violent crime turn around and become the perpetrator of another one.

Bingo. Against an innocent human being. Bingo. Like the baby is not forced to bear the weight of his father's sin and crime for simply existing.

Exactly right. Brad any closing thoughts on that? Yeah I mean we need to be taking these rapists out you know that's that's the solution here.

Yeah exactly. You know that so that way we have a lot fewer of those situations because we execute them and not these precious innocent babies.

Bingo. Bingo. Excellent. One more time Brad where can people find you?

FAA .life. They can go there check out Foundation to Abolish Abortion sign up for the

EquipCon Equipping the Safe to Abolish Abortion Conference. Use the promo code

EAN60 to get the early bird price there and check out abortionfree .com

and watch the docuseries. Excellent well thank you again everyone and of course I also want to mention

Amtac Blades. We got our sweet battle axes laying out there. Bill Rapier good brother of ours.

Retired Navy SEAL DevGru operator beast in every term every use of the term.

Amazing man of God. Anyways go to amtacblades .com you put apology in the coupon code and get five percent off your order and he will then give five percent off to end abortion now so he's he's in this fight with us to to save these babies and of course we got all of our gear.

Speaking of babies we I mentioned this on the last show where we got our end abortion now track now in Spanish. Oh that's not the

Spanish one. This is the Spanish one. Tu bebe. Tu bebe. So you can check that out we're excited to have those and I'm wearing my sweet new provoked shirt today.

Nice. I was just on last night. Oh were you? Yeah. Oh good for you. Yeah. I know those guys. They're all right.

Just kidding love those guys. Well thank you everyone for partnering with us. We are gonna head right into an after show so we'll get right over there because Brad's got to go in 13 minutes.

So we'll get over there we'll continue this conversation. Thank you everyone that supports us and partners with us with all access and I think that's about all

I think Jeff will be on next week. Later dudes. Thanks for joining us. So thank you everyone.