WWUTT 865 Q&A Church Clarity, Capital Punishment, and Andy Stanley?

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What is the Church Clarity Database and should your church have something to do with it?

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What's the Biblical view on capital punishment? And is there a what video about Andy Stanley's comments?

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The answers to these questions, when we understand the text. This is

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When We Understand The Text, a daily Bible study to help you put on the news self. Created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

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Find all our resources at www .utt .com. And once again, it's

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Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. So at the time that you're hearing this, we are at G3 in Atlanta.

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This was recorded a week before we headed down that way. Yes. And so how's the conference going?

00:53

How are you enjoying it? It's wonderful. I feel very convicted. Yeah. How'd you like that pre -conference?

01:02

Sure. Do you even know what the pre -conference is about? It was worth attending. I'm glad to see all my friends.

01:15

It's funny, I've been getting messages via DM on Twitter. People asking me if I'm going to be there.

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Yeah. It's like I've been talking about it for five months. Have you not been paying attention?

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And not on the podcast. I mean, I mentioned it on Twitter and Facebook. Yeah, that's true. But I mean, we've been sick and everything.

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So maybe they're just double checking. Maybe they've all been sick. That could be too.

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Yeah, there's been a lot going on for us as well. It's a delight to get out.

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Yes. Yes. Cabin fever was sure setting in for me. That's right. I've been thinking about packing, doing laundry, and cleaning out the fridge, and doing the dishes, and picking up everything, and making sure the house is set.

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All the preparations. I've had a couple of, what would you call the projects that I've been doing?

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A couple of projects. Home improvement. Home improvement projects. Did you mention that? No. Okay, you said home improvement like you said that.

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No, I have not mentioned that one. Anyway, so yeah, I've been doing some home improvement stuff, which

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I've been trying to get done before we take off. So that way when we get home, the house is set in the way that Becky wants it to be, and she can just jump right into things.

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That would be amazing. I just don't see it happening for my part. Because after you get your part done,

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I have to move all my stuff. Right. So I see it taking a little bit longer, maybe for my birthday?

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Well, that's what I'm aiming for. Yeah? And right now I'm on a good pace to get it done before your birthday. You are. But then my part,

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I have to get motivated to do it too. Yeah. Organizing all of the paperwork and the books and, you know, doing all of that.

03:02

With everything that's gone on since Christmas, though, it was a pretty ambitious project to try to get all of this done.

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Oh, yeah, definitely. We had the time. We did. If we had nothing else going on, we had the time to get that done.

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We did. Yeah, there was just too much going on. Yeah. Too much happening in the world of Junction City, Kansas.

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Oh, and I was laid up for like two weeks straight about. Yeah, you were. That's right.

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Had my sinus infection. That was bad. She was down, and we really did not know why.

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No. We just knew she didn't have spunk. No, I couldn't make it up the stairs. Yeah, you weren't running fever or anything like that?

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Not really, no. And then there was, I won't kind of go into the details of what happened, but I just convinced her to go to the doctor.

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Yep. And it wasn't for this, but they found out she had a sinus infection. Yeah, it was pretty bad.

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It was like, oh, okay, that's what's going on. Pretty bad, but I didn't really have a headache. No, you didn't. No. You weren't ever complaining about headaches.

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No. So, yeah, that was interesting, but it's me, so I'm just weird.

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Glad to see you back to your peppy self. Oh, me too. It's good to be here. Being Friday, we take questions from listeners, and you can submit questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

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I am behind on responding to many of those emails for the reasons that we just detailed, so I apologize for that, but hopefully you hear the answer to your question here, and then

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I don't have to email you. You also have a week before they get to hear this, because we're recording this a week early.

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Well, yeah, now questions are going to start coming in while we are in Georgia. Yes. And then I'll be backed up even when

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I get home. Oh, yeah, that's right. I just figured you'd take your laptop with you and answer questions. Well, I would.

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I wasn't planning on answering or, like, banging out emails while I was there. Well, you never know. You may have some downtime.

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Maybe. I doubt it. Yeah, not seeing it either. Did I mention the email address?

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No. I think I did. whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com. Pretty sure I did say that.

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Did you? Or I've just said it enough times now that— I don't think you did this time. Okay. But there you go, just in case.

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Write it down. I'm going to go back and find it and edit this part out because I already did mention it.

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We got a different email to start with today. This is actually not an inquiry from a listener.

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This comes from an organization called the Church Clarity Team. You ready?

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I haven't heard of them. Hello, your church has recently been submitted to our Church Clarity database.

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Your church has been selected by one of our volunteers to receive our verified clear survey.

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Having a verified clear score is akin to a Twitter verified checkmark.

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It is the clearest score that a church can receive. Okay, don't be too excited about this yet.

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Oh, dear. In order to be verified clear, we have designed a survey for your church to fill out, indicating your church's policies for LGBTQ plus people and women in leadership.

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Your answers will be publicly available in your church entry on our database.

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You can see prior examples of verified clear churches here. And then there's a link.

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Verified clear scores are our way of designating that this church is 100 % clear and that anyone who visits this church will know what policies to expect.

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This is our way of informing the public of the due diligence we've undergone to establish a new standard for clarity.

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The verified clear survey is available here. Link. Thank you,

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Church Clarity Team. Okay, I thought we were pretty clear about that. Well, so here's what

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I think happened. I went to the website and I looked up our church, and it has indeed been submitted to their database.

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They have 2 ,000 churches in their database right now and another several dozen that they have yet to approve and post.

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So someone had seen something that I said on Twitter or maybe read one of my blogs, and they took it upon themselves to submit our church to their database.

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So I've received this email, which has been sent to me personally and also to our church email address.

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I found it in that inbox as well. Interesting. Because the form that was filled out on their website came from somebody that was not actually from our church.

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So they're asking us for someone from our church to verify what it is that has been put in their database.

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Interesting. Well, I'm glad they're verifying. Well, yeah. And not just taking it because, you know, people lie and over exaggerate and get offended.

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Especially with somebody with a vendetta, which is exactly who submitted those details to that website.

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But anyway, just letting you know that this is out there, and they're building this database of churches, and they're doing it for the purpose of letting

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LGBTQ plus people know what churches are not gay affirming. Now, on the one hand, you might think that's great.

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Then we don't get LGBTQ plus people. I think it would increase the numbers, though.

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Of people coming to the church? Yeah. Very likely. Yeah. You might have some of those militant individuals that will want to come to your church and try to cause trouble.

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Yeah. Like that video of the, I don't know, quote unquote, lady with a pink purse cussing up a storm and throwing stuff all over the store.

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Oh, yeah. I did see that. Yeah. I didn't ever get what kind of store that was. Was it a toy store or something?

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I have no idea. There was a lot of toy store novelty and things like that around, but I wasn't really quite sure what kind of church it was.

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That person was very angry there. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Very, very angry. So anyway,

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I did not go to the database and did not, you know, I looked up the entry. I saw what it was that we had stated there.

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They're building. Oh, hang on. Let me bring up the site here. So let's see.

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It is. They want to know what your LGBTQ policies are and what your policies are regarding women in leadership.

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Those are the two things primarily that they're looking for. Right. And, of course, they're just letting people know this church is not

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OK with women being pastors. And this church is not OK with putting LGBTQ people in leadership as well.

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So would we not be verified clear? No, we are verified clear. Oh. We're verified clear, non -affirming.

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Oh, OK. So we're clear about non -affirming. We're clear that we're not affirming. OK. Now, when I shared this on Twitter, there were some individuals that were saying, hey,

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I'm all right with that. I'll put my church on that database so they know that I'm not LGBTQ affirming.

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Look, this is not going to go well. No. With Christian, faithful, Orthodox churches.

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Right. It's not going to go well. This would be participating with the fruitless works of darkness.

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And Ephesians 5, 6 tells us, let no one deceive you with empty words.

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For because of these things, the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore, do not become partners with them.

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For at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light, for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true.

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And try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

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And if you go to that website to enter your church into it, so everybody knows, hey, fine,

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I'm OK with everybody knowing that I'm not LGBTQ affirming. Right. You're actually partnering with them when you do that.

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I get using the website to go and find a church that you're going, OK, I know to stay away from that church.

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Right. But you should not be entering your church into that database for it is to partner with those who mean darkness against the church.

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And we shouldn't be helping them out with that effort. If they're going to do this and they want to mark churches, they want to put some sort of mark on a church so that, you know, hey, these are pro gay or these are not pro gay.

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Leave that up to them. Right. But we as Orthodox, godly, gospel centered churches should not be partnering with that particular effort.

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Right. Well, I mean, it's strange that they say the new standard to clarify or for clarity, clarity.

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Right. Sorry, I can't read from this far away. Oh, yeah. It's kind of ambiguous. That's a bit nerve wracking.

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You could read that and go, well, sure, I'm OK. Yeah. And they are deliberately. Here's the ironic thing here.

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So they want clarity. They want a church to be clear on where they stand. Right. That email wasn't very clear.

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No, it wasn't. No. So they're completely contradicting their own mission.

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Yeah. And that they are. That was interesting. Yeah. They're trying. So what was the old one, the old standard?

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You know, I mean. Well, yeah, the old standard was to be in the closet. I guess. Is that what you're talking about?

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I don't know. Now it's like we got to come out of the closet and be clear. In their email. What was their old standard? Oh. The last sentence.

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Let's see. This is our new. I'm sorry. This is our way of informing the public of the due diligence we've undergone to establish a new standard for clarity.

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Right. Yeah. So what was the old standard? Yeah. I mean, we've always been absolutely clear. Yeah. And any church that is teaching the

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Bible and is all about proclaiming the gospel is going to be absolutely clear on where they stand on those issues.

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And they're going to know as soon as you get in there. Yes. Or as soon as they walk in. They'll know. If you are teaching the scriptures and you're going verse by verse through the

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Bible, you can't help but be clear. Right. On where you stand on those issues. I just don't get it.

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But, I mean, whatever. Now, the way that I. If they want to be clear as mud, they can. The way that I presented this on Twitter was they're making a list, checking it twice.

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Oh, dear. Gonna find out who's naughty or nice. Oh, my. Gay Stoppo is coming to town.

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Oh, my goodness. That's what they get called. What? Yeah. Really?

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The Gay Stoppo. Right. Because it's like the gay affirming mob. Oh. Because they try to do.

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I had no idea what that was. Oh, yeah. Oh, my goodness. I mean, it's not like the popular nomenclature.

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It's just the. Okay. People will make that reference to the way that these gay affirming organizations will try to bulldoze anything.

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Oh, well, yeah. Because that would oppose that particular mission. Okay, I get it. So they're like the Gay Stoppo. Or the

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Gay Mafia is the other thing that they get called. Wow. That's crazy. It's like you're either going.

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You're either for us or you're against us. And we'll put the hit on you and make sure that. And either way, you're doomed.

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Right. Yeah. We're going to punish you. We're going to punish you for not being on our side. Right. That's the way that they come at it.

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And that's what this database is going to get used for. Doomed in their eyes, not to God.

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Well, yeah. Doomed in the world's eyes. Yes. There we go. In the eyes of God. I wanted to clarify that. Be very clear.

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Because we're all about clarity. We are. Fear the Lord and do what he says in his word.

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And in the scriptures, it says that those who practice homosexuality will not inherit the kingdom of God. Now, it's not for us to stand in opposition to them in the sense that we're pointing a finger at them and say, you're going to hell.

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You know, not doing the Westboro Baptist Church thing. Right. Right.

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But rather calling for repentance. Yes. Telling them to repent and turn from their sin and worship

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Christ so that they will be saved. Even sins as dark as this are not outside the grace of God.

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Right. And he will forgive those who repent and come to Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen. So pray for organizations just like this.

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But if you go to the website, I think it's churchclarity .com. You can click on advocates.

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The who we are section is under advocates. That should tell you something right there. Okay. On the front page, it says as seen in the

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Huffington Post and in Advocate Magazine, which is a that's a gay affirming magazine.

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You go to who we are and the two people that are running the website are pro LGBTQ plus.

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One of whom is co -organizes a queer communion. One of these individuals at a church.

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It leads queer communion at a church. Okay. Anyway, so it kind of seems like they're persons that want some kind of religion.

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But of course, they don't want the true Christ. They want their own version of God. That's most of the world right now.

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Oh, absolutely. Yeah. That's the first email on the list today. Okay.

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Next. Be aware that's out there. It's coming to your church, too. There's not a way to avoid the gay stoppo.

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The movement that's going on in our country right now to either draw you on to the side of gay affirming or punish you for not being on that side.

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Yep. This next question comes from Jason. What is the biblical view on capital punishment?

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Thank you. Short, sweet, and to the point, Jason. Thank you for your question.

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From Exodus 21 to Joshua 1, the phrase put to death appears over 40 times.

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So what would you say the Bible's perspective on the death penalty is? I don't think it's boring.

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Just kidding. I was like, really? Shall I read that statistic again? I'm just kidding.

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So, yeah, the Bible is absolutely for the death penalty. The first place that we see the death penalty is in Exodus 21, 12.

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Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death.

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Well, I say that's the first place that we see the death penalty, but that's not necessarily true.

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We actually see it in Genesis, first of all, and it's probably in Genesis 2.

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Where the Lord says, if you eat of this tree that I've told you not to eat from, you will surely die. That's true.

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That's a death penalty. That is. But the first place that we see the death penalty, in the sense that whoever kills someone,

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I will demand a life for a life, is in Genesis 9. And this is after the flood, where God has purged the earth of all evil men.

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And the Lord says this, be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. The fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth and upon every bird of the heavens, upon everything that creeps on the ground and all the fish of the sea.

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Into your hand they are delivered. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you.

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As I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

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And for your life blood, I will require a reckoning from every beast.

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I will require it. And from man, from his fellow man, I will require a reckoning for the life of man.

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Whoever sheds the blood of man by man shall his blood be shed for God made man in his own image.

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And you, God says to Noah and his sons, be fruitful and multiply, increase greatly on the earth and multiply in it.

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So that's the first place that you see a death penalty, death penalty, death penalty, a death penalty, a life for a life.

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Everyone who takes a life, I will demand that person's life of him or that animal's life for your life blood.

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I will require a reckoning from every beast. I will require it. And for man. And in fact, we do see this in the law of Moses, which comes about in the book of Exodus.

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You have, even if an animal should kill a man, that animal should be put to death.

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When an ox gores a man or a woman to death, the ox shall be stoned and its flesh shall not be eaten.

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But the owner of the ox shall not be liable. But if the ox has been accustomed to gore in the past and its owner has been warned but has not kept it in and it kills a man or a woman, the ox shall be stoned and its owner shall be put to death.

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Exodus 21 verses 28 and 29. So, the death penalty even extends to animals, not just to people.

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This is one of the ways in which the United States of America has grown further and further away from the law of God.

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When we're getting further and further away from the death penalty. Now, I am a fan of true crime.

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I enjoy watching true crime shows. Becky does not watch them with me. Nope. So, it'll be one of those evenings where she's gone to bed ahead of me and then

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I'll pull up forensic files or something like that and watch an episode. And it's astounding to me the number of times that I will hear of a criminal making a deal with the prosecution to avoid the death penalty.

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They may still get life in prison, but they're making a deal so that they won't be put on death row.

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And then therefore, you know, will lose their lives. Of course, that's going to end up happening within like a span of 10 years.

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The death penalty is not handled speedily in the United States. Right. Not at all.

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I would say honestly, it's a joke. I remember a year or two ago, hearing about Scott Peterson.

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Do you remember Scott Peterson? Do you remember this trial? Vaguely. It was out in California. He killed his wife, Lacey Peterson, who was also expecting their child.

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Okay. And this was like a big manhunt for a while because they thought she was kidnapped and she was missing.

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Oh, right. Okay. But then, you know, it ended up being murder. I won't give the specifics, but it was a horrible, horrible case.

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And so this became national attention with this guy on trial and the guy that represented

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OJ Simpson was his lawyer. He's also represented Michael Jackson. So we had this all -star lawyer that brought this before the entire media and everybody glued to their

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TV sets over this thing. His mistress even came forward and said, I had no idea that this had been going on and all this other kind of thing.

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And so it's just an incredible story at the time that that happened. It's nationally captivating.

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This guy's on death row and he was convicted of murder in 2004.

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What? He's still on death row. Wow. This has been. So we're talking 15 years now.

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Wow. And I remember anyway, like I said, I remember watching a thing on him on death row two, three years ago.

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I think it was just last year, last year, the year before, because it was kind of like it was coming up on the 15th anniversary of this particular trial.

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Okay. And he's playing basketball, you know, at the at the prison and doing fine and doesn't have bills he has to pay.

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The taxpayers are paying for his way of life. Oh, my goodness. And it's like he's got all the amenities taken care of and handed to him.

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And this is a guy who's been convicted of murder. The death row and the death penalty in the United States is a joke, even in the places where the death penalty is still in effect in California.

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That's where it's one of the most lax places in the country. Oh, yeah. And people like Mother Teresa had come out and was outspoken against the death penalty.

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The Catholic Church is very against the death penalty. Yeah. And so, yeah, you'll have various persons associated with the

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Catholic Church coming out every once in a while and speaking out against it. But this is this is anti -Bible.

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It's contrary to what is said in the scriptures that for those who murder, it's life or a life.

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Now, question putting you on the spot here. Okay. You read from the

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Old Testament. Does that still apply for the New Testament? Yes, because as we have in Romans chapter 13, let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God and those that exist have been instituted by God.

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Therefore, whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed and those who resist will incur judgment for rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad.

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Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good and you will receive his approval, for he is

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God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain, for he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out

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God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore, one must be in subjection not only to avoid

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God's wrath, but also for the sake of conscience. For because of this, you also pay taxes for the authorities are ministers of God attending to this very thing.

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Pay to all what is owed to them, taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

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This is why we pay taxes because it funds the government which God has appointed for the purpose of maintaining civil order.

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Now, you can disagree with the civil government. There are certainly a lot of things bad about the government that you can criticize them for, but we still must be in subjection because they exist to keep order and God has placed them in that particular place that they're in.

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When we see the government go awry, especially in the United States of America, when those who are appointed to those positions in government are chosen by the people, a government by the people and for the people, when you see the government becoming as depraved as it is, well, it's actually a reflection of the hearts of the people.

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This is the way the whole country is going. So, of course, that's going to be reflected in our

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American government as well. As long as we're voting for it. Right. Yeah. Sinners voting for sinners.

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Yep. Sinners existing in that system of government. But still, this is God appointed. Think of how bad society would be without government.

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No. It would be absolute chaos. It would be awful. So as bad as the government is, it could certainly be way worse.

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Right. And God has established government to keep the civic order. And the Lord says in Romans 13, 4, that the magistrate does not bear the sword in vain for he will punish those who do wrong.

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And a person who kills someone else should be subject to the death penalty. That's what we have laid down in Scripture.

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And that's even stated in the New Testament. In Matthew 26, verse 52, when

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Jesus was being arrested and Peter tried to defend him, he draws a sword. He cuts off the servant of the high priest's ear.

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Right. Jesus says, put your sword back into its place for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

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Now, people have used this passage to say you shouldn't own a gun because if you own a gun, you'll die by a gun.

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You know, stuff like that. And that's not the meaning of that passage. What Jesus was saying is authority has been given to the one you are fighting against.

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If you were to lop that sword just an inch or two in the other direction, you could have killed that guy and he would have had every right to put you to death because you killed someone else.

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Instead, fortunately for Peter, he only cut the guy's ear off. And Jesus goes and picks the guy's ear up and puts it back on his head.

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So gross. And he's healed. Hey, he was healed. I know. It's amazing. I don't want to think about it.

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It was fine. Ultimately, he was fine. Yes, I'm glad. But anyway, that's the death penalty.

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We have it in the Old Testament. It's restated again in the New Testament. And it's become a joke in the

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United States. In fact, I would even go as far as this. I know this is going to be controversial. You will not agree with me on this.

27:30

All right. I believe that the death penalty should be public. That when we execute those persons who are guilty of murder and what they deserve is the death penalty, those executions should be dealt publicly so that the rest of the people may stand in fear and know this is the penalty that comes upon a person who takes a life.

27:51

I'm going to surprise you. I actually agree with that to an extent. Okay. Okay. Because back when it was so public and awful of a death penalty, people did not.

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I mean, they feared. They feared doing wrong. They feared doing that stuff more so than what it is now.

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And so I do agree that that would be beneficial to getting order.

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But at the same time, I'm not one to be there. I get that.

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It was not that long ago when executions were handled publicly. I mean, the one that I can think of in particular because it was a story that I read recently was that it wasn't even 150 years ago.

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It was at the end of the 19th century. So I'd like to know when the last public execution was held.

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But I'm sure it wasn't that long ago. I know that in the state of Utah, you could still be executed by firing squad.

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Oh, yeah. And that's actually a Mormon thing. Because if you have murdered somebody, according to Mormon theology, you can't actually be forgiven for that murder unless you spill your own blood.

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So the capital punishment in Utah is by firing squad so that your blood would be spilled and therefore you might receive atonement for the murder that you committed.

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That's Mormon theology. Even if I missed, I would still hold that guilt and blame of killing a man.

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I just couldn't do it. That's why I am in the field that I'm in, which is not medical, not policing, not...

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It's mom and educator. We still have a significant amount of body fluid that we have to handle.

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That's my max. Sometimes it's more than my max that I can handle.

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That comes with the territory. Yes. But anyway, if you just go to BibleGateway .com

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and put in quotes, so this way you don't get too many random verses, but you put this in quotes so you can keep the phrase together.

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Put the phrase put to death in quotes and see how many times that comes up just in the

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Pentateuch. So you can see the number of laws that were laid out in Israel that required the death penalty.

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Now, because we're not a theocracy and we're under a new covenant, Christ fulfilled all the law and the prophets.

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I'm not necessarily arguing for every one of these put to deaths becoming the law of our government today.

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But when we see something like Exodus 21, 15, whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death, or whoever is guilty of adultery shall be put to death.

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What we come to understand here is that the wages of sin is still death. And there is a day coming on which there will be a reckoning if we don't turn from sin and put our faith in Jesus Christ.

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But certainly with life for a life. I do agree with the death penalty in that sense. Life for theft.

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No, I don't agree with that. So if a person steals something and they should be put to death, I'm not in favor of that.

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You think of the two criminals that were hanging with Jesus on either side. They were thieves. So they were being put to death and tortured because they were thieves.

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That's going a little bit out there. And the Old Testament specifies that those who are guilty of theft have to pay it back.

31:30

Right. And this is why putting a person in jail for theft. What's the point of that? I mean, what have you solved there?

31:36

So the person still loses that they stole from. And then that person gets put in jail and they get all their meals and stuff handled for them.

31:44

Yeah. And they have to serve their time and then they get let go again. And then a lot of offenders end up becoming repeat offenders.

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Right. Prison really doesn't do anything to reform anyone. So those who are guilty of theft need to there needs to be some sort of system in which they're paying it back.

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But those who are guilty of having murdered somebody else. Yeah, I absolutely believe in the death penalty.

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I believe it needs to be dealt swiftly. And I think that it should be publicly.

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And we're not going to do that perfectly. I know that some people are the reason why they're opposed to the death penalty is because we get that wrong sometimes.

32:23

Right. And people get put to death who actually are not guilty of murder. And that's another thing, you know, watching forensic files.

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Maybe that's why it takes 15 years. Yeah. Plus. Watching those true crime shows like Forensic Files is sometimes they will have people who are wrongly imprisoned.

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And then the forensic evidence exonerates them rather than convicts them. But that process takes years.

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Yeah, it does. And it's ridiculous how long that takes. And then the state owes them and everything.

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So. Right. For that time. But with the way that our system is now, as great as it is with scientific advancement and things like that.

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And being able to use forensic science to either commit someone or exonerate them.

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Nevertheless, there are still massive mistakes that end up getting made. So whether you're talking about eyewitness account or you're talking about forensic evidence and science and things like that.

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Mistakes still get made. But the death penalty still should be in effect in this country and it should be carried out swiftly and publicly.

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That's the way it was done. That's the way it was done in the Bible. That's the way I absolutely believe we should be doing it now. And like I said, it wasn't that long ago we were doing it that way.

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But the further and further we get away from the fear of God. And even understanding that the wages of sin is death.

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Yeah. Then even things like our laws as they pertain to guilt and sentencing, imprisonment, death penalty, things like that will become more and more lax.

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Or they will also become more and more prejudiced, biased, looking down on the wrong people.

33:57

Yeah. Favoring the rich. Things of that nature. There's all kinds of messiness in the judicial system.

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I'm thankful for our government for the purpose of being able to keep civic order. But there are still incredible atrocities, namely abortion, which is legal murder.

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And abortion doctors should be tried and put to death over that. And then there's also things like this clear church, church clarity team thing that we just read.

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Yeah. Which at some point is going to end up being used against some church in some legal way.

34:30

Oh, I'm sure. I imagine that's going to end up happening somewhere down the road. All right. Sad. Next question here comes from Zach in Oklahoma.

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This is one that you sent to me. Are you by chance going to do a what video on Andy Stanley and his repetitive growing heresies over the past year?

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Or did you already do one and I missed it? I think the only video that I've done that mentioned, oh,

34:52

I've done two that mentioned Andy Stanley in them. One was a video that I did.

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I'm pretty sure it was last year. Could have been two years ago, two Christmases ago. And it was on Stanley talking about the virgin birth.

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And he was saying that it wasn't really all that important to believe in the virgin birth. Oh, my.

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All you need to do is believe that Jesus rose from the dead. But what I showed in that video is that the virgin birth is as important as Jesus' resurrection from the dead.

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Yes. And it's really you don't separate the two and say, well, the resurrection is important. But, you know, virgin birth, you can take it or leave it.

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If Jesus was not virgin born, then he could not have been the spotless lamb of God to take away the sin of the world.

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Exactly. And therefore, he could not have been resurrected. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit. He was resurrected by the

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Holy Spirit. That's right. And that's one of the reasons why the virgin birth is as important as the resurrection.

35:50

So, anyway, I played a clip from Andy Stanley in that particular video. Then there was another one where I talked about theology.

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What is theology? And that there are so many people that will say theology is not important. And I had a quote in there from Andy Stanley.

36:03

I don't think it was his audio. I think I just referenced the quote on the page. Okay, yeah. But it was something that Andy Stanley said, something to the effect of we need to put people ahead of theology or we need to be teaching

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Christ and not theology. It was something like that, which it's like if you're talking about God, you're doing theology.

36:20

Yeah, exactly. People just don't understand that word. There's the places where I mentioned

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Stanley. But about his growing heresies over the last few years, no, I haven't really done anything on that, although I have read several blogs.

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Now, what I've done in those blogs is not necessarily pointing out what Stanley says is heretical.

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It's just pointing out that he's liberal. He's a liberal theologian. Yeah. There are things that put him in the liberal category.

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And some people will say Stanley is growing liberal. He's becoming more and more liberal. I don't think that's the case.

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He is a liberal theologian. He's just every once in a while we get that he exposes himself in that way.

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Okay, yeah. Why do you think he is a liberal, not growing? Because of statements that he'll make like this is not important to believe.

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We just need to believe the resurrection. You don't need to believe the miracles that Jesus did. You don't need to believe the

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Old Testament. You know, the whole thing of unhitching from the Old Testament. Right. You don't need to believe the Old Testament. You just need to focus on the resurrection.

37:23

Well, Jesus said if they don't believe Moses and the prophets, neither are they going to believe if someone should rise from the dead.

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That's in Luke 16. That's true. So, if you don't believe the Old Testament, you're not going to believe in the resurrection either. Makes sense.

37:36

Jesus has already directly responded to that particular claim. But it's stuff like that. Disconnecting yourself from certain parts of the

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Bible that you don't see as being relevant. Okay. And you don't have to believe this in order to be a Christian.

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Or trying to make the Bible relevant to the current modern culture. You know, how do these things pertain to us today?

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That's not really the best way to state it because that's what I do in my preaching. Okay. We've read this. Now, how does this apply to you?

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This is true. But I'm saying more in terms of, well, this doesn't apply to us anymore because that applied to a people 2 ,000 years ago in a

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Greco -Roman culture. Gotcha. Paul was speaking about this. We don't have that same problem in the

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U .S., so, therefore, we need to ignore that. That sort of approach. Got it. That's another mark of liberalism.

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So, these are the ways in which Stanley has kind of revealed himself as a liberal theologian, not somebody who is orthodox and committed to the sound teaching of the

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Word of God. He's outright said that expository preaching is cheating. Cheating?

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He thinks that pastors should not be expository preachers. Okay. Because if you're just reading the

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Bible verse by verse and giving the sense, remember in the book of Nehemiah or in the book of Ezra, rather?

38:50

Okay, yeah. So, Ezra read the Old Testament to the people and then the people gave the sense.

38:58

That was in Nehemiah. That was in Nehemiah. I got that right the first time. Yeah. I was going to say,

39:04

I thought it was one of those that we have read recently. So, you have expository preaching in the Old Testament.

39:09

You also have it in the New Testament. Tom Buck was telling me about a paper that he wrote. I hope I'm not getting him in trouble by saying this.

39:15

But anyway. Somebody. Somebody I know is writing a paper on Hebrews.

39:24

Okay. And what he's showing is that Hebrews was a sermon and that it's an expository sermon on one of the

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Psalms. Cool. And so, we see expository preaching even in the New Testament. And Luke, likely it's

39:40

Luke, who's writing down Hebrews, which is a sermon that Paul preached. And it's an expository sermon on one of the

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Psalms. Okay. Anyway, I told him that's incredibly fascinating and I want to read that paper when he's done.

39:52

Yeah. But there's just a couple of examples. Okay. Jesus, of course, was very expository.

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Even when he went to Nazareth, he goes into the synagogue. He opens up the scriptures. He reads from Isaiah and points out how

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Isaiah was pertaining to him. How that prophecy in Isaiah had been fulfilled in their midst.

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Jesus was an expository preacher. Yes, he was. And anyway. So, Stanley, to say that that's cheating is to call

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Jesus a teacher. Good job, man. Jesus a teacher? Sorry. A cheater.

40:24

I was like, that's a compliment. Yeah. My slam totally slammed.

40:30

It just fell right into the ground. Nosedived. Anyway. So, again, in response to Zach's question,

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I haven't done a video that addresses specifically a lot of those claims that Stanley has made.

40:47

I did tell him that I have written a script, but that script has never been produced. But this was in response to an article that came out in the

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Christian Post, which is a great resource as long as you can deal with all the pop ups and video ads that will start playing when you go to the site.

41:03

It's one of the most commercial Christian news sources. I hate their video ads. Well, they gotta get money somewhere.

41:09

But anyway, this is how the article went. Christians should quit erecting Ten Commandments displays and should instead consider making monuments dedicated to the

41:18

Sermon on the Mount, popular pastor Andy Stanley said. Which is hilarious.

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Okay. Because of the number of times Jesus referenced the Old Testament and the Ten Commandments in the

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Sermon on the Mount. In a column published by Relevant Magazine, the North Point Community Church pastor argued that the

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Ten Commandments are the old covenant and no longer apply to believers. If we're going to create a monument to stand as a testament to our faith, shouldn't it at least be a monument of something that actually applies to us?

41:52

He posed. So, there was a man who came to Jesus and he asked Jesus, good teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the law?

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And Jesus said, you will love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.

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This is the first and greatest commandment. A second is like it. You will love your neighbor as yourself.

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On these two commandments hinge all the law and the prophets. What Jesus just laid out for him were the first and second tables of the law.

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The first four commandments deal with our vertical relationship with God. You will love the

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Lord your God. You will have no other gods before me. Don't raise up any graven image. Don't disrespect my name.

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Speak blasphemy about the name of God. Don't disrespect my day. You'll honor the Sabbath and keep it holy.

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Those are the first four commandments. They deal with our relationship with God. That's the first table of the law.

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Gesturing up and down. I'm making the vertical gesture here. You guys can't see that, but that's there.

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Like I'm cutting something with my hand. Karate chop. Vertical relationship with God. Now I'm going to do the horizontal karate chop.

43:00

Okay, just make sure you miss me. The next six are horizontal commandments that deal with our relationship with our fellow man.

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The first one is honor your father and your mother. The second one is you shall not murder. The next one is do not commit adultery.

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The next one is do not steal. The next one is do not bear false witness. The final one is do not covet. Those are the six commandments that deal with our relationship with one another.

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That's the second table of the law. So when God says, when Jesus says that the first and greatest commandment is to love the

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Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. He said, oh, the first table of the law is the first and greatest commandment.

43:41

Oh, and the second one is like it. The second table of the law. This was Jesus saying all of the commandments are important.

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Yes, that was exactly Jesus response. Stanley doesn't understand that. So he goes on to say participants in the new covenant, that's

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Christians, are not required to obey any of the commandments found in the first part of their

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Bibles, wrote Stanley. Participants in the new covenant are expected to obey the single command

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Jesus issued as part of his new covenant as I have loved you. So you must love one another.

44:12

That's not singular. He gave lots of command. Oh, yeah.

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Lots. And in fact, in John 14, only reading a certain section. Oh, of course he is.

44:23

Yes. Stanley has taken scissors to his Bible. Oh, man. John 1415. Jesus said, if you don't even think scissors would do that much damage, maybe an ax.

44:34

Right. An ax instead of a scalpel. Yeah. In John 1415, Jesus said to his disciples, if you love me, you will obey my commandments.

44:44

There is plural there. Stanley went on to say that he believed so much of the evils committed by churches over history were connected to them trying to mix aspects of the old covenant with Christianity.

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And that although Jesus was foreshadowed in the old covenant, he did not come to extend it.

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Dear Christian reader. Why? Why? Why would we even be tempted to reach back beyond the cross to borrow from a covenant that was temporary and inferior to the covenant established for us at Calvary?

45:17

Stanley continued. I happen to remember the Apostle Paul saying in First Timothy one, nine, that the law is good if one uses it lawfully.

45:27

Right. And in fact, in Romans seven, Paul says, what should we say then that the law is sin?

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No, by no means. My Genoita in the Greek. No. Right.

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That is the strongest statement of opposition that Paul could possibly make because it is by the law that we become knowledgeable of our sin.

45:49

Right. And remember back a couple of weeks ago, there was a question that we responded to regarding the threefold purpose of the law.

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And it was to reflect, restrain and reveal. Right.

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It reflects as a mirror, shows us who we are and what our sin is. The purpose of the law is to restrain evil, which is why we put

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Ten Commandments monuments in front of courthouses. Right. So that people would be reminded there is a

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God in heaven who sees and knows all and his law is good and perfect and it prevails over any other law of man.

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That's what those monuments represent. And then finally, the law, the threefold purpose of the third fold purpose of the law would be to reveal

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God's will and his intentions for us. What his good, pleasing and perfect will is.

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How do we please God? What should we be obeying? How is it that we are to live in righteousness in this life?

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Colossians chapter three, put to death what is earthly in you. Right. Anger, malice, wrath, deceitfulness, sexual immorality, put to death the sin.

47:01

Right. So the law shows us what the sin is and what we need to be putting to death to therefore walk in holiness before God.

47:08

Stanley is saying, put all of that away because you just need to love each other. Right.

47:13

But what does that look like? Yeah. What does loving? How do you know what that looks like?

47:20

Just love each other. Yeah. No, people don't inherently love each other. No, of course not.

47:26

We're sinful, wicked, depraved people. Yes. What we want to do is wickedness toward each other. That is our natural disposition is to treat one another that way.

47:35

Yeah. Now, whenever Stanley says stuff like this. So I understand

47:41

Zach's question about, are you planning on doing a video about these heresies that he continues to say?

47:50

But whenever Stanley says something like this and he gets confronted on it, he always backtracks.

47:56

And what he says sounds plausible. So it's just kind of like, OK, right. I can see where you could take the comment to go this way.

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And I can see where you could take the comment to go this way. And he's just very pragmatic. He'll give a person the answer that they want to hear.

48:09

Now, I will say this about Stanley. He's not as multifaced as Rick Warren is.

48:15

OK. Rick Warren will absolutely tell whatever audience, whatever answer they want to hear.

48:21

Oh, wow. But Stanley does pick a position and he does stick with it. It's just when he's confronted on a statement that he says, when he tries to qualify that statement, it's kind of like,

48:32

OK, I could get why. I get why you're drawing that conclusion. And it's not necessarily what he's saying is heresy, which is why the label that we specifically put on Stanley is that he's liberal because he's just twisting the scriptures to make it to say what he wants to say.

48:51

Right. He may not actually take it to the full extent of the meaning that we interpret out of what he says.

48:58

But he's fine, especially with those who are of the more seeker sensitive crowd receiving it the way that he says it.

49:06

That's exactly why he says it the way that he does. But then when somebody like Mueller will push back on him,

49:12

Stanley will go, no, see, and look at how terrible a person Mueller is because he didn't actually contact me to ask me to clarify what it was that I was saying.

49:20

But he'll applaud somebody like John Piper, who did write an article about Stanley and sent the article to him first before he published it at Desiring God.

49:29

So therefore, Stanley is going to praise Piper because at least he contacted me first. But he's going to lambast

49:35

Mueller because Mueller just goes right on the briefing and says, well, Stanley said something new again.

49:42

And here's what he's saying now. Sounds very egotistical. But I mean, I kind of get going to the horse's mouth first.

49:49

But I mean, if you say it publicly, it's kind of public domain, right?

49:55

I mean, just kind of. Yeah. Anyway.

50:01

Yeah. So I think that's as far as I'm going to go. I was planning on just going through the entire article, but we're coming up on an hour.

50:08

Yeah. So we'll wrap things up. Yeah, that'll be good. Next week, we'll be back with more questions.

50:13

And again, you can submit those questions to when we understand the text at gmail .com.

50:19

Yes. God bless. Let's pray. Our gracious Heavenly Father, we thank you for the love that you have shown to us through your son,

50:27

Jesus. And he reveals to us who you are. We know the Father through the

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Son, and we're grateful for that. And also, we get to test and approve what your will is, your good, pleasing and perfect will, according to your word.

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So I pray that you would give us the conviction in our hearts to know what your will is, according to your word.

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We would see these commandments that you've clearly laid out for us, and what it means to live in holiness.

50:56

What do you expect of us when it comes to living upright, godly lives in the present age?

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What does an upright, godly life look like? We find it in your word, and we find it through your commandments.

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And if we love Christ, we will obey those commandments, which includes loving the Lord our God with all of our heart, and loving our neighbors as ourselves.

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And may we love our neighbor to such a degree that we go out with the gospel, pointing out the sin and showing them that forgiveness of sins has been given to us through the

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Son who died on the cross for our sins, and rose again from the grave, and is seated now at the right hand of the throne of God, so that whoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.

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Continue to grow us in the knowledge of your grace. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen.

51:50

Amen. A daily

53:00

Bible study that we may put on the new self. Daily Bible study to help put on the new self.

53:09

Okay, that, yeah, that'll be... Huh? That's a better idea. A daily Bible study to help you put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

53:27

Yeah, that's a good idea. Okay. This is when we understand the text. A daily

53:32

Bible study to help you put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

53:40

How do you say all that mouthful? Yeah, you had that right. I did? This is when we understand the text.

53:46

A daily Bible study to help you put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

53:53

Okay. Where there's a comma, there's a pause. I know, but you went down further than I did, so I like that better.

54:04

This is when we understand the text. A daily Bible study to help you put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

54:13

Find all our resources at www .utt .com. Here once again is

54:19

Pastor Gabe. I know you're getting tired, but that has to be up a little more. Yeah, I noticed. Okay. I noticed as I was going along.

54:25

I'm like, I've got to put a higher note in here somewhere. And it didn't go.