Miscellaneous Topics Before a Deep Dive into the Perpetual Virginity of Mary

Alpha & Omega Ministries

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

Comments are disabled.

00:37

Well, greetings. Welcome to The Dividing Line. 2021 is passing us by, and the things that are happening are truly amazing.

00:49

We're right at halfway through October, and I just happened to notice, just saw a notification,

00:58

U .S. Navy to expel any personnel who refuses COVID -19 vaccine by November 28th of this year.

01:08

And above it, it has a picture of Xi Jinping clapping, which of course is where this is coming from anyways.

01:16

But yeah, what we're seeing happening with the supply chain, with these mandates, it makes all of us sit back and go, how did the

01:29

West get taken over by our enemies? And so easily and so quickly. It is amazing.

01:35

We are getting a lot of phone calls from people who are facing termination just like the Navy SEALs and others.

01:44

What do you say in situations like that? We all know, and they know, that if you capitulate here, there's going to be something else.

01:57

I was going to say six months down the road, it may not be six months down the road. The way things are, it could be next month and the month after that.

02:05

And it just gets more invasive and more totalitarian. And we're all sitting going, hey, we all have to stand together against this stuff, but I don't know.

02:17

It's very difficult to do that. This is a big country and a lot of people in a lot of different situations.

02:25

And sure, people are pushing back. And there's going to be a lot of pain.

02:32

There's going to be... Americans may, for the first time, experience true hunger. First time in what, 50 years?

02:45

Mainstream, broad category of the culture. But what you need to understand is that's exactly what is desired by the engineers of the

03:01

Great Reset, the people that are behind all this, the global elites. They want as many people as possible on the government dole.

03:09

They don't care about deficits. They just build more printing presses, just crank that money out, devalue it, crush people's investments, savings, so on and so forth.

03:21

The state has to be all in all anyways. And anybody who's got money, they might not do what the state tells them to do. So crush them all.

03:28

Because if you're on the public dole, if you're dependent on the government giving you your food, you're going to do exactly what the government tells you to do.

03:38

That's how it works in China. And that's the model.

03:46

And so it's like you can see it coming. It's like, hey, that truck's going to hit that car.

03:54

Yeah, you see it coming, but you feel absolutely helpless to do almost anything about it. Unless enough people...

04:00

Hey, if Kyrie Irving can wake up and realize if people finally can sit back enough and go, you know, this censorship thing, if these people are wrong, wouldn't it be easier to just actually refute what they're saying with facts rather than just using censorship?

04:26

Yeah, it would be, but they can't and they won't because they're not wrong. And that's the whole point.

04:34

And we... More and more people are waking up. And those of us that have been awake the whole time, not woke, awake.

04:42

We actually use English language correctly. Awake is different than woke. Those of us who have been awake, we were the ones that you all were suggesting you wear tinfoil hats.

04:57

Only a matter of, what, six months ago? Yeah, maybe just a little bit longer than that.

05:04

When we, you know, when the Joe's Cookies started coming out.

05:11

At the time, at the time they were, they were Trump, Trump, Trump treats.

05:16

They were Trump treats. Because it was developed under Trump. So they're Trump treats and now they've become

05:22

Joe's Cookies. And when they first started coming out, I'm looking at them going, yeah, well, that's, they're going to require this to travel and they're going to require this to work.

05:39

And this is... And it makes sense. They did the worthless mask thing and continue doing the worthless mask thing.

05:49

So why wouldn't they do this? It worked. The other worked. Well, this is even, this is even greater.

05:56

You get everybody hooked on their, their daily treatment or maybe their weekly treatment. And you go, that could never happen.

06:03

Really? Really? Yeah. It's well, yeah, but they're driving, they're driving the bus, you know?

06:15

And we're in a, we're in a Ford Pinto and they're coming up behind us. So yeah,

06:23

I'm sorry. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That was, that was,

06:29

I remember seeing that. That was, I've actually looked it up on YouTube and it's still out there.

06:34

That was a incredible movie. But anyways, thank you for distracting me. See what I, see, this didn't happen when we did last program because there was nobody in there and I didn't get distracted.

06:45

See how that worked? Anyway. So yeah, when I see Schumer and all these people, well, you shouldn't have to choose between heating your home and having food.

06:55

These are the people that are behind doing this. These are the people that want this to happen. Have you seen the, the, the gas price graphs?

07:06

Record highs, inflation record highs. We're going right back to the Jimmy Carter years.

07:12

Jimmy Carter, Joe Biden. Wow. Is there a parallel there? Is there? Wow.

07:18

Yeah. Amazing. But for those of you in those situations, you know that what you're doing is right.

07:26

I wish that there was an easy way out of this. The question really is, is going to be, do you want to be one of those people to say,

07:37

I, I fought it. I would not, I would not give into it. Or are we just going to go along and say, well,

07:45

I fought it for a while, but now I'm just one of the slaves because that's, that's what it is.

07:51

If, if, if someone can tell you what to put into your body, what to eat, what to wear, where to live, how much money you can make, what kind of jobs you can have, where you can go, when you can go, that's called slavery.

08:07

That's called enslaving a people. And who could have guessed Christmas of 2019, how easy it would be.

08:18

Now, those that have arranged this and been preparing for this for over a decade would tell us it was not easy.

08:28

But those of us who were actually just living our lives during that period of time, it seems like it happened really, really, really fast.

08:39

So we'll see what happens when, you know, Chicago this weekend, they're looking at possibly as much as 40 to 50 % of the police force not being available to work.

08:54

You know what Chicago is like with all the cops on duty? It's a war zone.

09:01

Do you, do you not think that all those gang members are going to be completely aware of the fact that this is the weekend to go on a rampage?

09:09

Wow. And again, exactly what's desired.

09:15

That's, they want to break things down and then come in to cure everything with big brother.

09:24

Um, right in front of us. And I, it still amazes me how many Christians there are.

09:29

They're just going, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Nothing's happening. Everything's going to get back to normal.

09:36

And you're just like, wow. Okay. Um, so we need to be praying for each other, helping each other, assisting each other, giving to each other.

09:49

Um, if you're a lone ranger Christian right now, this is not a, not a good time to be a lone ranger

09:56

Christian. And even if you decide, you know what, I'm going to go ahead and get involved with church.

10:04

Do you think that the churches that have already been living community, when all of a sudden someone just decides to just jump in, uh, aren't going to be somewhat hesitant that as to the motivations?

10:18

I mean, this is why you've been saying for a long, long time, you need to be part of the community and we need to be helping one another and finding ways, uh, finding places to work.

10:31

There are, believe it or not a few places. Um, there are some, there's at least one major company that I know of that is not demanding these things.

10:41

And they recognize what's going to happen when all the lawsuits hit.

10:46

I don't know. It's going to clog. It's clogging everything up right now, but all it takes,

10:53

I don't trust Roberts as far as I can throw him. Um, I don't trust, um, the other guy that barely made it in either.

11:04

I'm sorry. Kavanaugh. Yeah. Um, I don't know.

11:10

I don't know. I don't know. We, uh, we stand together, stand together.

11:17

So every time you look at your newsfeed, uh, the, the, the city and that city, the district of Hess in Germany, I think it was

11:27

Hess, uh, Hesse, uh, you cannot go to a grocery store without a

11:33

VAX card. You can't eat. And what people are doing is it's automatically doing what it did during the

11:41

Soviet Union. When people see that enterprising people stick a bunch of food in the back of their car and go park someplace.

11:51

There are only so many cops, you know? Um, and here in the

12:00

United States, literally remember, remember, do you remember what year was it?

12:09

When did, um, uh, it was when

12:16

Merrick was with Obama. So it'd been 2015 or was it no 2016, 2016

12:23

Merrick Garland. Obama puts him for it as the moderate candidate, the moderate candidate for the

12:34

Supreme court. You want, you want more reason to not believe anything that you're told by the, by the media, the moderate.

12:42

And now we look at this guy and he is, he, he is the head of the

12:49

Stasi. That's what the FBI has become. The Stasi. Everybody knew the secret police, the East Germany, they were a completely political thing.

12:56

They didn't care anything about truth, justice or anything. Uh, they were there to make people disappear.

13:03

Merrick Garland, head of the Stasi. There you go. That's where we are. Like I said on Twitter a few days ago,

13:09

I'm so shocked. I'm still there. It's just a matter of time, but, um, it seems that totalitarians like three letter acronyms,

13:19

KGB, FBI. Uh, and I had some people mocking that it's like, there's a point here.

13:27

There's a point here. Uh, we now recognize the FBI as a political organization, not a law enforcement organization.

13:36

There was a day we were taught to trust the FBI, to, to have them in awe. Um, now they are the leftist thugs.

13:45

Are there still some good people in the FBI? I'm sure there are, but they're, they're like lot in Sodom and Gomorrah, you know, eventually the

13:53

Lord will send the angel in to get them out and they better not turn back unless they'd be turned into a pillar of salt.

14:00

Um, so there we are. What, uh, what an amazing time we live in. Uh, I did see, yes,

14:11

I saw, I saw Doug Wilson's response to Joe Rogan's anti -Christian rant and I've sort of enjoyed some of these

14:21

Doug Wilson response things. It's sort of, it's just a shortened version of what we do on the dividing line very often.

14:30

But, um, it was enjoyable to listen to, you know, you know, you know, today we're all sitting there going, yay,

14:37

Joe Rogan, take a, take apart Dr. Gupta and nail him to the, nail him to the wall.

14:45

And cause he was right. He was obviously right that CNN had lied about Ivermectin and all the rest of that kind of stuff.

14:53

Um, and so he just nailed him to the wall. Okay. But he's still as much a

15:01

God knowledge suppressor as anybody else, if not more so. I mean, the fact that he can clearly see stuff like that only removes his excuse for the suppression of the knowledge of God.

15:17

We, we are so desperate to hear somebody who agrees with us outside of our camp that sometimes we lose track of the fact that these folks are really not on our side, but I did enjoy

15:31

Doug's response to that. Um, I got this out of my, oh,

15:38

I brought all this stuff in from the truck, uh, after the trip and, uh, fascinating the stuff you start carrying with you that you find out you need, you never thought you needed.

15:54

And then a few things, but now, for example, I have a, you haven't seen it yet, but, uh,

15:59

I bought a, um, telescoping, uh, examination mirror.

16:07

So it's, uh, it's a mirror about yay big has a little light at the end. You can turn on led light and you can pull it out to about this far.

16:14

Now why in the they would use those like to look under cars and stuff like that. Uh, the hitch has a colored code on the front of it that will tell you, uh, if you're actually locked in or whether you're not.

16:31

And once we put the tonneau cover in, unless I could turn into Gumby. Uh, so I've been,

16:38

I've been driving down the road thinking and going, I need a lighted telescoping mirror.

16:49

And you put lighted telescoping mirror. What a wonderful time we live in.

16:57

It wasn't sitting in one of the ships off of long beach. Uh, it was actually, uh, available.

17:02

Uh, so now I can, and I've checked it. I can right back there. Look at that. It says tow, which means go

17:11

Raider Raider. All, uh, not the yellow one, not the red one. You want the green one. And that will make me feel even better.

17:18

Uh, so who knew that you would have a telescoping lighted mirror in your little thing that I've got behind the seat that you just need to stuff you stuff.

17:32

You need to do the RV life. And, um, so the next I'm starting to work on the next RV trip, which will probably start like the day after Thanksgiving.

17:43

I think, uh, I think my family would probably be upset if it started before then. Um, but that will be the, the turnaround point right now is

17:55

St. Charles as always first weekend in December, we will be back there in St.

18:02

Charles for the 21st year. And I keep telling them guys, there are other people out there.

18:09

This is the third time we're doing this topic, but in 21 years, that's still only once every seven years.

18:15

Uh, so, you know, you got new people and stuff like that. Um, but, uh, trying to arrange some stops on the way and, and thank you.

18:27

Let me remind everybody again. Um, could you send me the, the link in, um, in, uh,

18:39

I can't bring signal up, uh, maybe

18:44

DM and Twitter. Would that be possible? What do you mean?

18:51

I don't like it. It doesn't, what does it matter? Um, the reason I'm asking is, um,

18:57

I'm looking for the map. Uh, just a reminder to everybody that we are still putting together the map and we have a very faithful volunteer comes in, puts all this information in there.

19:14

If you will write, if your church will write to roadtrip, one word roadtrip at AOMN .org,

19:23

give us your church's name, address, contact information, pastor email really helps.

19:31

Um, maybe even a phone number for a text message or something like that. And what

19:37

I'm doing is I, I have to do, I'm the one that has to drive it. So I'm the one that has to design it.

19:43

I don't have anybody to do this for me. I wouldn't, and it wouldn't work to have anybody do it for me.

19:49

So it takes some time, but it's good time because since I'm setting it up, I have the opportunity of looking at the routes and I now have a, what's called road carriers, road

20:00

Atlas, uh, with low clearances and, you know, stuff like that.

20:06

Cause I'm about, I'm figuring I'm 13 too. Uh, so I've never seen anything below 13, eight, but actually

20:16

I do remember a 12, nine, one, one place I'd run right into that sucker. Uh, but anyways, uh,

20:22

I have to put all these routes together and, uh, plan them and look at the distances and climbing and all the rest of that kind of stuff.

20:32

And, uh, so I'm doing that and looking at, we're going to be going. And so I have this map and it's, there's all sorts of folks who've done this that are like up in the, the bluest of the blue States.

20:51

And, um, I appreciate it. I'll take that as a, Hey, if it were ever to happen that these places would be open for someone like myself, but you have to realize that when

21:07

I go into shut down, lockdown, masked up States, uh, life gets a little difficult.

21:16

Um, I have to like get gas and then go find a place to park and jump into my

21:22

RV and put the slide out and use the restroom and all the rest of that kind of stuff. You go, well, just put a mask on.

21:28

No, I won't. I have physical reasons why I will not do that. But I, Alexander Solzhenitsyn told the

21:35

Russian people, the last thing he said to them before he was kicked out into exile was live, not according to lies.

21:43

It's a lie. We know it's a lie. I've read too many of the studies that demonstrate it's a lie.

21:50

And so I just, I don't not comfortable doing it. Uh, so it makes my life a little bit difficult.

21:58

Um, I don't know. Did you send me something in, uh,

22:05

Twitter? I don't,

22:15

I don't understand, um, Twitter on this machine. Um, do

22:26

I have Facebook? Um, Hmm.

22:33

Hold on a second. Uh, yes I do. Sorry guys.

22:41

Uh, I do have Facebook, Facebook messenger. So you could, uh, you could try that.

22:52

So, um, I'll, I'll look for that. I just wanted to pull it up so y 'all could see it because it's very, there it is.

22:58

There it is. Thank you. Um, that DM will come in, you know, 15 minutes from now.

23:06

Um, so here is, uh, yeah, got one up in Calgary.

23:16

Sorry guys. But there, there, there'd be a border there with, with armed guards and I end up,

23:25

I would end up in, yeah. So there's a, there's our road trip. Um, you'll notice there's, there's not, not much in New Mexico, but, uh, down South there.

23:39

Yep. Looking good. Missouri looking good. Uh, isn't it weird? Florida. It's just in a line.

23:44

You notice that in that, in this bizarre, let's, let's zoom in on Florida here.

23:54

Uh, it's from St. Petersburg through Tampa up, up to Orlando is, uh, you know, uh, the only people who want to see, well, actually there's a few folks up here too.

24:04

And then this is where I was in, in this area. And you'll see there are a number of folks in, in this, you know, there's

24:11

Niceville. There's, there's some of the churches I was at right there for Walton beach.

24:16

You know, I think all those churches were associated. Thanks again to all those, all you folks, uh, that helped so much with that.

24:23

And, um, where did, uh, there's Baton Rouge. Yeah, there's Lafayette.

24:28

That's where I went over there. So, yeah, uh, I look at all those and try to get in touch with folks and try to make things work.

24:37

Uh, there's some folks up in Denver, Denver still want to want to do stuff. So just remember if it would be a

24:45

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday type thing. It's not your normal time for meeting, but we had a good group in, um, in Lafayette.

24:54

They were in there and they were excited group and really enjoyed. We're going to get back down there.

24:59

Uh, they're, they're on the 10th. So we got to get back down there and they want to do debate on Roman Catholicism. We're going to talk about some

25:04

Roman Catholicism. I can speak a little bit later on, but, uh, get your emails in, uh, roadtrip at AOMN .org

25:14

because you never know. I may be sitting there looking, Oh, where can I, where can I stop?

25:20

Uh, and, uh, Hey, there's a church there. There's an RV park nearby. Um, Hey, if you've got a church member at an, that owns an

25:30

RV park, that's, that's always nice. That's always helpful. Um, Oh, and if, if, and, and, and include there, if your church has any good chiropractors who are members, yeah, yeah.

25:47

Well, we got a real, real great mechanic in the, in Arkansas. That was Jerry's Jerry's best, but, um, if you got to,

25:55

I did not get to see a chiropractor at all on this last trip, two and a half weeks. I was about dead by the time

26:02

I got back. I mean, I literally stopped at my chiropractors before I got home because I was,

26:07

I was a Royal mess. And, uh, when I went up and I did the three week one up North, I got to get adjusted twice on the, on the, on the road.

26:19

So there's a really good, uh, chiropractor up in Moscow. So at least I know when I go up there, um,

26:26

I will get, I will get good treatment. And, uh, so that's, that's great. So anyway, sorry about taking all that time.

26:32

Uh, let me see here. I'm sorry. I'll jump in real quick here. The, um, while you're, we're doing an aside here, uh, we're getting into that season where I need to start tallying things up and getting all the books, uh, finished up.

26:49

And folks, those of you who have sent me checks at alpha to mega checks donations, we're very thankful.

26:54

But in a lot of cases, I don't have your contact information. I need email addresses. So, so set something up and folks, if you're going to send it to this, it needs to just to be for getting me your name and your information you've donated with a check and your email address.

27:14

Don't send me, you know, 10 miles of your latest treatise on whatever subject is sticking in your craw at the moment donations at almen .org.

27:29

So send me your information so I can get that in there and your end comes around and we get that done. So that's all

27:35

I have. Bookkeeping, uh, stuff from the guy who makes all that, uh, all that happen.

27:41

Um, Andy Woodard, uh, from up in New York, you know, the church there that we met him at, uh,

27:51

G3. Now that I'm without my wisdom teeth, I need to gain more wisdom. So between boxes of gauze, ice packs, and extra strength,

27:59

Tylenol, um, binge rewatching sovereign Michael and sovereign nations videos.

28:04

There's a picture of Mike up the screen. Highly recommend that you get your wisdom teeth pulled or that you watch

28:12

Michael, which is more fun. It's just having to think about that one.

28:19

Uh, there you go. There you go. Okay. All right. Now started a big, uh, brouhaha.

28:29

Actually, Jeffrey Johnson started a big brouhaha with this book, the failure of natural theology. And, um, what's fascinating is how many people, uh, wrote reviews this before the book came out.

28:45

And I, I can see Thomas doing this. I don't know what it is about Thomas Aquinas, but man, the people who find him to be the necessary light of the medieval period, the necessary light to get, to provide necessary grounds of belief.

29:07

I'm not sure how anybody made it up till Thomas. Um, but man, people can become dedicated to Thomas Aquinas at an incredible level.

29:22

And so Jeffrey Johnson managed to get himself into a lot of trouble with this particular book.

29:28

If you'd like to find out why that is all about, what that is all about, uh,

29:37

I think you would find it to be a very good read. It's, um, you can pick it up at, uh,

29:45

Free Grace Press, the academic, uh, academic imprint there.

29:51

And, um, there are a number of good, uh, statements on the front and the back that you might want to read through as well.

30:00

It's not a million pages long. So unlike trying to read Thomas, but I did see, uh, that the fellow who

30:10

I responded to on the last program did a video response. Uh, I spent 25 minutes grand total on Aquinas.

30:20

And so a few minutes less than that on his specific, um, comment on Facebook.

30:26

And, uh, his response is four times that long, uh, 100 minutes long.

30:34

And that's what happens with these types of conversations is. So now

30:39

I've got to make a decision. Do I, do I have nearly an hour and a half with everything else that I'm committed to?

30:47

Do I, can I come up with an hour and a half's worth of listening? I don't know. I did download, it took forever.

30:54

I don't know why, but I did, I did download it. Um, we'll see. I don't know.

31:01

Uh, where does that rank in the list of stuff? And when

31:06

I did just pop into it at one point, it was somehow talking about the Canon. And I, I was like, what, what does that have to do with Thomas?

31:16

I don't know. Maybe I'll find out about that. Um, but let's, um, let's get serious here.

31:24

I went a lot longer than I expected to on the prolegomena, uh, only had time to do a little bit with the perpetual virginity of Mary material.

31:41

I think I ran into the person who did this on Twitter. You never know on Twitter, but, um,

31:50

I mentioned the last program that I find this to be an important and useful issue because it illustrates the ease with which church history or any history can be played with inverted perverted.

32:18

Um, and the current younger generations do, do not seem to be well -trained in thinking historically.

32:34

If, if our society as a whole were well -trained in thinking historically, we would not be playing with the loaded gun of communism placed to our head.

32:45

Yet again, we would have recognized these people infiltrating us and dealt with them appropriately long before now, but alas, that is where we are.

33:02

And so the society as a whole struggles with historical issues. Just look at what happened last year where you start pulling down statues of everybody without any, any understanding of their context, their lives, all of human history for that matter.

33:22

You would to make all of human history live up to your modern standards, or you will expunge it is the ultimate of ignorant childish hubris.

33:33

But that's where we are. We're in the midst of ignorant childish hubris. So, um, when we look at the subject of perpetual

33:43

Virginia Mary, I listened to this presentation and as I listened to it, I realized this is the only way you can make this argument.

33:50

I've debated this subject a number of times before. This is how my opponents attempted to make the argument. So it's not that it's brand new, but it was nicely laid out so that you can sort of go, okay, so the guy starts with conciliar definitions and authority that come centuries after the apostles.

34:15

Um, what he's, what, and interestingly enough, you know, who is following, unless I missed what he said, he was following Thomas Aquinas.

34:23

He was following the order of his presentation. And so, uh, now remember

34:31

Aquinas lives before the definition of the final Marian dogmas and is questionable, uh, on those final ones, but this is, this is earlier.

34:43

Let's not get into that right now and confuse everybody. The presentation is you start with the councils and then you make, then they made the arguments for the perpetual

35:02

Virginia Mary. And they were, for example, one of the standard arguments for the perpetual

35:09

Virginia Mary is it's fittingness. It would be fitting for Mary to not have other children having had

35:22

Jesus, uh, because the incarnate son of God dwelt in this womb.

35:28

Therefore, no one ever else should, which would mean it would be fitting, um, to, uh, close up every house

35:37

Jesus ever visited and not let anybody else in that house ever again, that would be fitting.

35:44

And it would be fitting for Mary's mother to be sinless. And it would be fitting for Mary's father to be sinless and Mary's grandparents to be sinless.

35:53

Fittingness that you're never given any kind of meaningful standard as to what defines what is fitting.

36:02

It would have been fitting if God had decided to, what if, what if God decided to suppress the, um, ignorance and sinfulness of the apostles?

36:16

Wouldn't that have made his job much easier to teach them? Couldn't God do that? So the idea is what it would be fitting for God to do this.

36:25

God had the ability to do this. Therefore he did it. And you can use that to prove absolutely positively anything.

36:31

And yet ostensibly rational people will sit there and go,

36:36

Oh no, that's a, that's a really good argument. That's a, that's a strong argument. So it'd be fitting for God to do this.

36:44

And then, then you make the argument, well, um, Mary asks the question, how could this be?

36:53

When the angel says, you're going to, you're going to be with child. I don't know a man.

36:59

Well, you're about to get married. So she, she should have just interpreted it that way. Obviously she didn't interpret it that way, but the argument is what that means is that Mary had made a vow of virginity and that she really wasn't going to marry

37:13

Joseph in the actual sense of marriage. This was going to be a protectorate and Joseph was older and he was just going to protect her and she never planned to have any, any children at all.

37:30

And most of us sit back and go, but where'd you get that?

37:36

Well, it's fitting. Well, is there any, is there any evidence? Nope. There's anything in the new testament?

37:43

Not a word, but it's the only way to understand her response. Well, no, it's not.

37:50

Well, it's the way that I like, well, that's nice, but that's, that's not the only way to understand her response at all.

37:55

And so this entire complex of ideas of, of vows of virginity and all the rest of this stuff, just as accepted as a, as a slam dunk.

38:08

I mean, this guy just thought this was the best argument. There's no answer to this at all. And then after you've done all of this stuff, then you get to objections.

38:23

But what are the objections? The objections are actually where any meaningful discussion of the subject should have started.

38:32

But you wait till the end. You wait till you have established your argument on completely other foundations.

38:43

And then you get to the actual evidence, the only evidence that we have that would allow us to meaningfully address the subject.

38:53

So it's done completely backwards and it's purposeful. It is absolutely purposeful because you would never come to this conclusion.

39:03

If you're dependent specifically on apostolic sources, these people are not, they've admitted it by where they started.

39:14

They've been told to believe this by external authority. And that's why they believe it.

39:21

And so it astonishes me that people who pretend to believe in solo scriptura could ever be tempted by something like this.

39:31

I just, I'm just left going, what, how, where does this even come from?

39:40

So let's ask, okay, let's define things, okay?

39:48

Because a lot of people, a lot of non Roman Catholics don't even have a clue what the perpetual virginity of Mary actually means.

39:58

A lot of folks would go, well, yeah, we believe in the virgin birth. Well, it's, is it relevant to virgin birth?

40:03

Of course it is. Mary is a virgin prior to the birth.

40:12

She has not had relationship with a man. That is plainly the teaching of the text of scripture.

40:21

And all we know is what's in scripture. Everything else, every other tradition is from a historical perspective, laughable.

40:34

It cannot be traced back to the first century by any stretch of the imagination. All we have are the references in scripture and there aren't that many of them.

40:47

There aren't that many of them. So what does scripture tell us?

40:55

Because the perpetual virginity of Mary, unlike the immaculate conception where she is conceived of the stain of original sin by the preemptive application of the merits of Christ, unlike something like the bodily assumption, which wasn't even dreamed of before 500 years after Christ, there's direct biblical evidence on this subject.

41:23

Direct biblical evidence found in the very words of scripture. I asked a guy today,

41:29

I don't know if you ever responded. This is one of the problems with Twitter is there's a big, long discussion going on on Roman Catholicism and I'll see parts of it.

41:39

And so I, I saw this fellow make a statement and in my response,

41:47

I basically asked, did Peter have a mother -in -law? Now, why would

41:55

I ask a question like that? Because mother -in -law has a certain meaning in the Greek New Testament. It's very specific.

42:04

And this person had said, nowhere in the New Testament are we told that Mary and Joseph were engaged in relationships and had other children.

42:17

And I simply pointed out, this is, this is not sane interpretation.

42:24

This is asking of the text, there's nothing in the New Testament says that Paul's parents had relationship and had children either, right?

42:36

There's really nothing. To ask that of the New Testament is simply insane, unless you're believing something you've been told to believe and then you do with the

42:45

New Testament, which you will. And so I asked a simple question, did, did

42:51

Peter have a mother -in -law? Well, we know in scripture did, because remember the story? She had taken ill,

42:57

Jesus was asked to do something and he raised her, he healed her. Well, that means that Peter was married.

43:06

We don't know anything about his wife. We don't have any direct evidence of that, but since he had a mother -in -law by definition, he had to have a wife.

43:15

You can't have a mother -in -law. Look, this is before the modern day where maybe his second male cousin decided to self -identify as his mother -in -law, who knows?

43:32

But, hi Emilio, I'll let everybody know who just, who just text messaged me while I'm live on the dividing line.

43:45

It was Emilio Ramos who I can, you know, he, he walked by the dividing line.

43:52

He just likes being on the dividing line evidently, and maybe just did that and I not turned off the ding -ding.

44:00

And so anyway, hi Emilio. So there are certain words that require certain meanings.

44:10

And so we ask ourselves the question, how in examining the

44:15

New Testament evidence could we know whether Mary remained a virgin her entire life, never engaged in sexual relationship with a man?

44:23

Now there is a technical aspect to perpetual virginity in the

44:30

Roman Catholic dogma that we really don't need to get into here, though it is a part of where it came from.

44:39

And that is the assertion in Roman, and this has deep theological significance.

44:47

The Roman Catholic definition is that Mary not only never had a relationship to man, but that she remained physically intact, even in the birth of Jesus.

44:57

Now, if you know anything about female anatomy, what they're saying is physically impossible. What they're saying is that they're, that Jesus beamed out of Mary, that there's a physical barrier there, but he still managed to get out of there without that, any of that changing.

45:14

And so when you look at the earliest sources that make references, that we possess, there's something

45:22

I'll try to remember to play for you later on that's fascinating. The earliest sources that we have that indicate any of this are clearly influenced by Gnosticism.

45:35

Now this, let me go ahead and mention this, this argumentation here, this fellow goes to Jerome, who's hundreds of years later, and Jerome claims that apostolic fathers were taking his position on this matter.

45:53

We have that much evidence of this. None. Zero. We do not have a fragment.

46:01

We do not have a sentence. We do not have a phrase of any of the men that he claimed.

46:09

From Ignatius onward, that ever made a word. We have seven genuine epistles of Ignatius, not a whisper.

46:19

We have Clement's epistle, not a whisper. The earliest documentable references that can be connected to perpetual

46:30

Virginia Mary are from Gnostic sources. Protevangelium of James.

46:38

So, scholars, historians, go, well, as we look at the historical documentation, this is the earliest that we have.

46:52

But since Jerome says that they argued this, then Jerome must have had their books.

46:58

They haven't left a dot of evidence anywhere else.

47:04

But if Jerome said it, he must have had it, and so they must have agreed with us. That's not how you do history.

47:10

That's how you make history up. That's how you make history up. What would Jerome mean?

47:16

How do you know that there are numerous pseudo epistles of Ignatius?

47:22

There's a pseudo -Ignatian canon. For example, the Watchtower Society used the pseudo -Ignatian epistles to make their argument against the deity of Christ when they reviewed

47:29

Ignatius. How do you know he didn't have those? How would he have known which ones were genuine, which ones weren't?

47:37

You have to go with what you actually have. And so these guys are actually saying, and let me play this for you.

47:46

I hope it plays. This is the section I'm talking about. We had some sound problems, so I may have to summarize this.

47:55

Let's see if this is going to work. So now you have the arguments from fittingness. It will work, but you don't need to have it at 2 .2

48:02

speed. So now you have the arguments from fittingness.

48:09

So you have the historical arguments, which is a lot of the second -century fathers who probably knew

48:15

Mary, or at least knew people who knew Mary, were writing that she was a perpetual virgin. Now, they would be called out if they were just making this up, and why are so many people making it up who knew the apostles?

48:27

It just doesn't make sense that this doctrine just arose like that. Okay, so there's this much historical evidence of that assertion.

48:35

None. Well, Jerome said a lot of things, okay? He's writing a long time later, and he is a participant in a debate, okay?

48:47

So there's zero historical evidence of this being true, but we continue. And then you'll get guys like James White who will bring up this random

48:57

Gnostic text from the second century. Now, Roman Catholic scholars bring up this random

49:06

Gnostic text from the second century as what? The earliest reference that we have historically.

49:13

This is what historians do rather than dogmaticians. This man's a dogmatician. He's not dealing with history.

49:21

He's defending a doctrine, and you just take whatever you can, and whether it actually could end up proving anything doesn't matter.

49:30

You're defending a doctrine. So this random Gnostic source is recognized by Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant scholars as the earliest reference to this concept.

49:43

Proto -Evangelium of James and say, well, this is where it came from because this happens to refer to the perpetual virginity of Mary.

49:52

And that's really just a bad argument because you don't have all of these fathers from the second century who were writing before the

50:00

Proto -Evangelium saying, well, this is where I got it from. I got it from this random Proto -Evangelium of James who's clearly

50:06

Gnostic. Well, these fathers despised the Gnostics and spent most of their lives defending the faith against the

50:13

Gnostics, Irenaeus, for example. Now, I want you to see how bad this, in any meaningful church history class, if this was presented, it would have to be failed because here's what the argument is.

50:28

Well, that can't be the origin and source because I'm assuming based upon Jerome without any documentation whatsoever that all these guys who were writing before the

50:40

Proto -Evangelium of James, we don't know the exact date, it was fairly early, but who wrote before it were actually teaching what

50:48

I teach. And you go, show me the document. I can't, but Jerome said they were.

50:55

And therefore, this can't be the origin and source. This is not how you do history. This is how you cobble stuff together to defend a tradition that you did not get from Scripture, that you did not get from Scripture.

51:10

This is how you do it backwards. This can be used to prove absolutely positively anything.

51:18

The Unitarians do it. The Sibelians do it. Anybody can do it because you're not following any meaningful process of historical investigation at all, at all.

51:33

So, let's put that aside for a moment and let's ask ourselves a simple question.

51:40

What do we actually know about the perpetual virginity of Mary in Scripture? Let me read you some

51:46

Scripture because that's all we've got. That's all we've got. Now, in this guy's argument, you don't even start there.

51:53

You don't even get there until so much it's not even funny. And the first places you do get from this guy are these fanciful interpretations of types and shadows from the

52:03

Old Testament that this has to be fulfilled in Mary and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, rather than, well, you know, this is a question that actually is answered by apostolic witness.

52:13

Let's start there. Okay? All right. Matthew chapter 12, beginning verse 46, while he was still speaking to the crowds, behold, his mother and brothers were standing outside seeking to speak to him.

52:26

Someone said to him, behold, your mother and your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to you. But Jesus answered the one who was telling him and said, who is my mother and who are my brothers?

52:36

And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, behold, my mother and my brothers, for whoever does the will of my father who is in heaven, he is my brother and sister and mother.

52:45

It's also found in Mark chapter three and Luke chapter eight. Matthew chapter 13, verse 55, is not this the carpenter's son?

52:55

Is not his mother called Mary and his brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas and his sisters?

53:04

Are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things? Also see

53:10

Mark 6 three. Now please notice, they know his father. They know his work, his carpenter's son, mother and name, brothers,

53:26

James and Joseph and Simon and Judas and his sisters.

53:31

Are they not all with us? Sounds like they had married some of the sisters. Where then does man get all these things?

53:39

So the point was we know the family and yet this man is claiming divine authority, right?

53:46

Is that not the absolutely positively natural meaning of the words?

53:55

Should the natural meaning of the words be fundamentally overthrown by a tradition that develops hundreds of years later with the authority of councils that come hundreds of years later?

54:11

For some, yes. John chapter two, verse 12, after this he went down to Capernaum.

54:18

He and his mother and his brothers and his disciples. Notice the distinction between brothers and disciples.

54:25

And they stayed there a few days. John 7 three, therefore his brothers said to him, leave here and go into Judea so your disciples, notice the distinction, also may see your works which you are doing for no one does anything in secret.

54:40

We himself seeks to be known publicly. If you do these things, show yourself to the world for not even his brothers were believing in him.

54:49

Acts 1 14, these all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer along with the women and Mary, the mother of Jesus and his brothers.

55:00

Notice the distinction between they are set aside as a specific group. First Corinthians 9 5, do we not have a right to take along a believing wife even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the

55:11

Lord and Cephas? Galatians 1 19, but I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the

55:21

Lord's brother. The Lord's brother. Now, let's think about some of the specific issues here.

55:35

The normative meaning of the language of the New Testament is consistent throughout all of these passages.

55:45

So you have all the Gospels, Acts, and Epistles of Paul, all using the same language without any indication whatsoever that this language is to be taken metaphorically or in any other way.

56:03

Okay. The simple meaning of Adelphos is brother,

56:13

Adelphi is sister. That's its foundational meaning and only context can tell you that in the semantic domain, the range of meaning of this term, that instead of at the center, which means brother, that you're out here where it would have a different meaning, a metaphorical meaning, very clearly used of brothers and sisters in the faith.

56:41

We use it in that way all the time. That's true, but we don't use it in that way when it's also being associated with father and mother and other specific familial designations.

57:00

The New Testament knows of other words for kinsmen, relatives, relations, and sometimes even uses them in the same context as Adelphos so as to distinguish.

57:23

So where in the New Testament, because they'll run to the

57:28

Old Testament, Greek Septuagint and Adelphoi, for example, brothers can be used as a translational means of a wider semantic domain.

57:42

But consider these, Luke chapter 14, verse 12, when you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers, your relatives, or your rich neighbors.

58:00

Now that term relatives, interestingly enough, you know what it is? Syngenis. Syngenis.

58:09

It's Syngenis, but it's where Bob Syngenis' name comes from, which

58:15

I've always found rather interesting. Relatives is different than brothers.

58:24

It's different than friends. It's different than neighbors. It's being used specifically.

58:31

And so in Luke 14, 12, are you going to say your friends, your brothers, and your brothers? No. It's being used with a distinction, clearly.

58:44

Luke 21, 16, you'll be betrayed by parents, brothers, relatives, and friends.

58:55

Same distinction. Okay. So the person who presents the perpetual virginity of Mary, now remember, if you're dealing with a

59:10

Roman Catholic, this is not, well, we just think this is a better way of understanding. This is a dogma.

59:18

You are anathematized if you do not believe this dogma. You are cut off from salvation if you reject this dogma.

59:28

They're not saying that it's possible. Normally that's the argumentation as it's presented, but they're not saying it's possible that it might mean this.

59:40

They're arguing it must mean something other than brother. Even though it's used with father and mother, and does

59:51

Mary as his mother mean something different? I mean, from the perspective of the person using the term, they're talking about Mary as Jesus' mother, right?

01:00:04

And Joseph as his father, as was supposed to be his father. They didn't understand the virgin birth, but they viewed it in that way.

01:00:13

And interestingly enough, they associate Joseph and Mary together as the parents of named individuals, brothers and sisters.

01:00:26

Natural language would mean this.

01:00:33

We're being told not only does it not mean what it sounds like it means, but it can't mean that.

01:00:39

And if you think that it does, you're a heretic. Okay. Next, have you ever wondered how strange it is?

01:00:51

Because who were these men who are traveling around with Mary?

01:00:59

Who were they? Well, they're not her sons. All right.

01:01:05

Then who are they? Why are they traveling around with Mary? Well, they were Joseph's sons by previous marriage.

01:01:15

And that's because Joseph is so much older than Mary. Okay. Or they're cousins.

01:01:22

They're kinsmen of some type. Don't they have their own? I mean, don't they have their, what happened to their mom?

01:01:33

Don't they have somebody else to be taken care of? Why are they traipsing around with Mary?

01:01:40

And if they're cousins, really? Do you really want cousins like that? Cousins who never go away?

01:01:49

Isn't it weird that Mary's running around with men who are not actually related to her?

01:01:55

A whole group of them? That people are going, Mary and Jesus' brothers.

01:02:02

And they, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not, not a word is said.

01:02:10

How strange is that? Anyway.

01:02:19

All right. So Joseph, for example, did, I'm sorry, Luke, Luke mentioned when he said

01:02:26

Joseph was as it was supposed, the father of Jesus, Luke, the careful historian and doctor, makes clear the meaning of father in regards to Joseph.

01:02:40

So his readers would not run the risk of confusion. Why would he not likewise say the brothers as it was supposed of Jesus?

01:02:48

Or use a more specific term such as cousin, but he doesn't. So he's specific about Joseph, but he's not about the brothers.

01:02:58

Hmm. That's interesting. Then you have just a couple other things here.

01:03:07

When Luke two seven says, and she gave birth to her firstborn son, she wrapped him in cloths and laid him in a manger because there was no room for them in the end.

01:03:15

Her firstborn son. Now, prototokos is used of Jesus as the one having preeminence in Colossians chapter one, but that's not what this context is.

01:03:26

The natural meaning of prototokos. So what they'll do is run off to all those other.

01:03:32

Yeah. Nope. No one's questioning that Jesus is prototokos in a special way to the father as in God.

01:03:40

But we're talking here about Mary, her firstborn son.

01:03:46

And given that the same authors will talk about his brothers and sisters, the natural reading would be, they won't take the natural reading.

01:04:01

They want to, they want to separate all of these texts. They will not take these texts as a whole. This is how you do biblical exegesis.

01:04:09

This is how you answer a question from a biblical perspective. You bring all the biblical evidence together.

01:04:16

And there is a consistent way of understanding what all the authors are saying.

01:04:24

No, do not do it that way. Do it backwards so that we can isolate each text and come up with an excuse for each text to defend our ultimate conclusion, which has come to us from a completely different source.

01:04:40

The perpetual virginity of Mary does not come from reading the New Testament. It comes from accepting all these external traditions, giving them ultimate authority, and then making excuses for the clarity of such things as prototokos in light of the other brothers and sisters, even the naming of the brothers given to us.

01:05:06

The same thing is true Matthew 1 .25. And it's interesting, I didn't get the feeling this guy has any, had ever encountered the haosu argument, because he uses the plain old, going back to Jerome, Jerome made the same error that Roman Catholics make to this day and repeat over and over and over again.

01:05:26

There's all sorts of places where until doesn't mean something happened afterwards. So, but Joseph kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a son, and he called his name

01:05:37

Jesus. And so you can, you know, Micah didn't have children until her death, but she didn't have children afterwards, blah, blah, blah, blah,

01:05:45

Micah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Standard stuff, again, goes back to Jerome.

01:05:52

But we've been pointing out for a long time now that in Matthew, his use of haosu, not just haos, but haosu, each time did indicate that after the point of the until is reached, that there was a change in the action thereafter.

01:06:16

And so syntactically, this would be, again, the natural reading.

01:06:23

So you've got Matthew 25, natural reading together with Luke 2 .7, natural reading together with Matthew and Mark and Luke, natural reading, natural reading, natural reading, natural reading over and over and over again.

01:06:35

Root meanings, you don't have to come up with separate meanings. This is how you answer these questions in regards to the issue of what the

01:06:46

New Testament teaches on this subject. This is where you start. If this is the last stuff you're dealing with and you treat each of these verses separately rather than together, that's the sign of a false teacher.

01:07:00

That's the sign of a false teacher. That's how you detect someone who is not deriving, this is key, deriving your beliefs from the text of Scripture.

01:07:12

You're getting it someplace else and then doing with Scripture what you need to do to maintain your beliefs.

01:07:21

And it's not just the Roman Catholics that do this. The Mormons do this with church history. The Jehovah's Witnesses do this.

01:07:27

The Oneness Pentecostals, the Unitarians. This is a very, very common methodology that's utilized.

01:07:38

You need to be able to recognize it, need to be able to see it. And for all of us, we should just sit back and go, look,

01:07:46

I want my beliefs to be derived from the text of Scripture.

01:07:52

That has to be the origin and source. So even when dealing with the most difficult questions that we have to ask in Trinitarian theology and stuff like that,

01:08:06

Calvin was right. You go to a certain point and that's where the light of Scripture ends.

01:08:11

And if you walk past that, you can fall off a cliff. That's not the analogy he used, but it represents what he was saying.

01:08:20

And so even in talking about the relationship of the divine persons in Christ, so on and so forth, you have to be able to go back to Scripture and they would not have crucified the

01:08:30

Lord of glory. The Lord of glory can be crucified. Why? Because the incarnation is real and hypostatic union is real and so on and so forth.

01:08:42

Those are divine and central issues. This exaltation of Mary, the entire cadre of Marian dogmas that utterly unknown to the apostles, utterly unknown to sacred

01:08:59

Scripture, have resulted in such horrific diminishment of the centrality of Christ for those people involved in these kinds of...

01:09:09

Go to Mexico! Go to the cathedrals, doggone it, and look for yourself.

01:09:17

Watch the videos of Mary being carried in procession through the streets of Mexico if you want to know what this actually ends up leading to.

01:09:26

And these allegedly reformed people... Oh, by the way, by the way, real quickly, goes through an entire list of reformers who believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary, and many of them did.

01:09:37

They did not, in general, make it any kind of central issue. There were many issues that the reformers didn't get to in the first generation, but the consistent application of Tota Scriptura and Sola Scriptura led to the recognition by later generations of the purely traditional and purely unbiblical nature of these types of things.

01:10:07

And man, of course, in the first generation, questioning something like this would be, why in the world should

01:10:14

I get everybody in the world mad at me? Let's deal with the main things first. And remember,

01:10:21

Rome had not yet elevated Mary to the position that she has now. Rome had not defined the immaculate conception.

01:10:28

Rome had not defined the bodily assumption. There were still arguments going on, you know, monks would beat up other monks over stuff like that.

01:10:36

The exaltation we have today, the position that Rome has today, did not exist then. And so the perpetual virginity of Mary was a speculative thing that they did not consider to be overly important.

01:10:48

Now that Rome has gone so far as to anathematize you if you don't believe in the immaculate conception, there are popes that didn't believe in the immaculate conception.

01:11:02

That changes the context completely. And some people say, well, you know, the Protestants, they have lost their way and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:11:09

No, it's a different context than it was back then. And I hold the

01:11:15

Reformers to the same standard I hold anybody else to. And when you go to the text of Scripture, it's teaching about the reality of the family, the proper family of Joseph and Mary is absolutely inarguable.

01:11:39

And so just, I'll wrap up with this, just think about this for a second. You've got people making up out of whole cloth without a scintilla of historical evidence, the idea that Mary had taken a vow of perpetual virginity.

01:11:57

And that's supposed to be stronger evidence than the central meaning of brother when used with father and mother.

01:12:08

There you go. It is an open and shut case. It really, really is.

01:12:15

And if you believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary, you do not believe in the perspicuity of Scripture. You do not.

01:12:22

Don't look at me and tell me that. I've seen too many of you that went down this road that today are bowing before altars and you've lost the gospel.

01:12:33

And I'm telling every one of you that's playing this kind of stuff, that's where you're headed. That's where you're headed.

01:12:39

I've been watching too long, seeing it happen too many times. And then

01:12:45

I've seen those people end up in a total, utter mess because they never found satisfaction in Rome either or in any of this type of speculative stuff.

01:12:57

And I've seen many of them just out in the world. And at one point they were right there and now they're out in the world.

01:13:05

And the path that took them along those lines was stuff like this. I've seen it happen over and over and over again.

01:13:13

Well, there you go. There's just some stuff I was, like I said,

01:13:19

I've started working on trying to get the editing done. It's just too much stuff going on. And then

01:13:24

I, Rich will tell you, I had the King James, but Gail Riplinger must be watching today.

01:13:36

That's why it wouldn't work. Yeah. Because I tried to play the file through my program. Wouldn't play.

01:13:43

So clearly Gail Riplinger, it's the Gail Riplinger effect. I wonder if she's still running around out there.

01:13:49

I would think someone would send me a note or something if she wasn't.

01:13:55

So I wonder, I'm going to have to look her up. See if she's still putting books out and weirdness like that.

01:14:03

But anyway. All right. Well, thanks for listening to the program today. Again, after all the stuff that I've talked about Joe Biden cookies,

01:14:13

I don't know why we're here, but we're just going to keep coming back as long as we can. And then we'll find other ways of doing it for as long as we can do that.