Money Matters (part 5)

Bethlehem Bible Church

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Father in heaven we thank you for the blessing of being able to look to your word and what it says about our finances how we should view money especially in light of what you have done for us in Christ father

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I pray that you would be with us this morning as we gather to worship you that we would be mindful of you again of what you have accomplished through your son for us and Lord that we would be here to worship you and you alone in Christ and we pray amen well have some serious things before I get to the ridiculous and then back to the serious that's a nice mix

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I wonder if anybody here could define opportunity cost

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I see that hand John's look the cost of what you give up to do something else that is exactly right and you say well

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I mean that's something that you learn basically in economics or something like that well how does that apply to us how does it apply to us do we have opportunity costs in our daily lives

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I can give you an example of one a few years ago I don't know what

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I did with my money but I was watching this is just a couple years ago as watching Apple stock and it was on its downward arc and and it was at $88 and I just thought if it goes any lower

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I'm gonna buy some and I didn't and it went up a few dollars and now here we are a little over two years later it's about 500 stop

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I gotta cry oh sorry so I don't know what

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I you know what I invested in instead but there's an opportunity cost there there might be an opportunity cost of this music stand falls down I don't know

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Bruce you had something so you miss the opportunity yeah sort of I mean tip more typically here's that here's a better example the car breaks down you've got your vacation fund you don't want to miss the vacation so you put it on the credit card the car repair and therefore you pay you know 15 % interest now that 15 % interest really represents the opportunity cost because what you normally could have done with that money you are just repaying to the credit company for absolutely no advantage here's a little website

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I found what it what is it called oh I guess I erased it I think it's like investopedia or something like that I thought it was pretty fun they said the the cost of an alternative that must be foregone in order to pursue a certain action put another way the benefits you could have received by taking an alternative action then they give a specific the difference in return between a chosen investment and one that is necessarily passed up in other words you have a couple thousand dollars you can either invest in stock

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A or stock B say you invest in the stock and it returns a paltry 2 % over the year of course if you put it in the bank you would be getting a paltry 0 % you know or 0 .1

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or whatever it is they give these days return a paltry 2 % over the year and placing your money in the stock you gave up the opportunity of another investment say a risk risk -free government bond yielding 6 % in this situation your opportunity costs are 4 % you pass up 6 % you got 2 % so you lost 4 % so what do

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I bring that up because of the vacation example we in our in our budgets we make decisions that wind up costing us money

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I sent out an email this week in which I mentioned a very kindly email which I got from Texas where somebody was listening to the class and they had some money kind of sitting on the sidelines that they were determined not to spend and instead of doing that they paid off credit cards and they'd kind of set the husband was wanting to do this but they the wife sat down and did some calculations they're going to save $2 ,000 in interest by paying off by using this money they had the sidelines and I'm like okay now that is an opportunity cost you know in other words it's an opportunity savings

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I think we underestimate how much money we give to credit companies

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I was thinking about it last night I don't want to see any hands but if you have an American Express gold card you know it says membership has its benefits

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I was thinking about that last night and that would be like if they you know if you had a $500 debt that you owed them and you were paying 20 % on it that's how much you're paying for that card and you get nothing for it other than you know cool flyers in the email telling you about events that you could never afford to go to anyway but I digress but opportunity costs are important because how we budget how we set things up really determines whether we're going to be in financially good shape if we're going to be financially healthy or whether we're going to be financially impoverished so we've talked a little bit let's put this into practical means here we've talked a little bit about having an emergency fund some people say $500 other people say $1 ,000

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I like to have at least a couple thousand because the more stuff you have the more breaks down and the bigger the bills are when they break down we talked a little bit about transmissions all that stuff but having an emergency fund the number one reason to have it is so that you stop building up debt don't go into debt any further how else do you eliminate your debts how else do you get out of debt you know some people in here might owe five ten twenty thousand dollars thirty thousand dollars and I'm not talking about on your mortgage

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I'm talking about in just in terms of credit cards how do you get out of credit card debt if besides stop digging

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Peggy yeah if she says accountability if you write down everything you spend somebody wrote me and said that they were doing that and that really helped them because they are out of money by the 11th of the month

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I don't know what that meant how about this for accountability people are always wanting to post what they're doing on Facebook I wonder if you just posted all the money that you spent on Facebook how that would look

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I don't know probably wouldn't be so grand would it so but you know to put it another way you're talking about diet and exercise and all these other things things that we know we ought to do but we don't do accountability what about you know just like what if you're on a diet and your wife cut you a small piece of cheesecake you probably don't want to go for the second piece of cheesecake which

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I did last night the idea if you're a diet what do you do it's not absolutely no

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I can't eat anything it's I'm going to watch what I eat so if and sometimes

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I'm just gonna say no so what if you apply that same thing to your spending you know what was the last time you just said no to something we're not going to you know go to I mean people go but we only eat at McDonald's well even

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McDonald's if you add up how much you spend over the course of a month I think the fallacy is it's like people who say they eat healthy if you look at what they eat always remember to turn off your cell phone boys and girls don't try this at home if you know a lot of people say well

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I eat healthy I don't understand this and then you actually you know you have them record what they eat or you go to one of these websites where they help you to track the number of calories that you eat during the course of the day the results can be fairly shocking because what you thought was so good you know winds up not being so good well it's really healthy okay and it's 3 ,500 calories a day it might be really healthy but that's a lot of calories and you've got to cut back a little bit but the idea of just saying no if we deny ourselves something or even you know if we if we have a budget for going out

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I mean here's kind of governmental thinking we have $200 in our ability to go

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I'm just making up this number I don't know what it is in our ability to go out and have dinner per month now we can spend that all in one evening we can spend it all in about I don't know 10 evenings if we get the 99 cents special I don't know if they even have those in McDonald's quite frankly

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I don't go to McDonald's very often or you know when we get to the $80 mark or the $120 mark or whatever we get to go you know what let's just stay home and save some money saying no is a good way but here's the other thing

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I wanted to talk about this morning and that's this when you make up your mind that you want to get serious about getting out of debt because you want to actually control your money instead of your money controlling you then what you do is you take aim at one credit card one bill that you have that you're paying on every month and you just aim to get rid of that and sometimes you know it can be there are different theories on this take the highest interest one and pay that one off well that's all well and good but another way is to go at the smallest bill that you have pay that off and then take that money that you would pay on that every month and go on the next biggest one etc etc etc it's called debt snowball the idea is that you get momentum and you do as you pay one off and then you pay another one off and you pay another one off and you start realizing that you're in better economic shape of course the temptation is to do what yeah all of a sudden we've got more money than we had before well we better buy something to get back in the hole that we were in not the right way to go but saying no you know this idea of having an opportunity cost we don't really think again if we don't think about how we're spending our money if we don't think about where it goes then it's gone and we have no idea what happened to it so if we just contemplate well what happens if I don't spend this what happens if we didn't necessarily expend all the money in a given account a given category for a month what happens if we just save that money or we applied it to a bill or we did something else with it

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I mean I venture to say that everyone in this room if you have employment and you have absolutely no bills if you had no mortgage no you know monthly bill that you had to pay

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I mean you're gonna have electricity or something of that nature unless you've installed solar panels but if you had no other bills except for energy and that kind of thing you would be in pretty good shape but most of us don't live like that so the idea is to get to that point anyway so I just want to bring up opportunity cost think about that now we get to the ridiculous as you all know

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I am on the TBN newsletter and I read it semi religiously well

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I but it just so happens that this month it's on giving what a relief because every other month it's on giving but and this is entitled and this is true right

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God gave first is that true it's absolutely true talks about John 316 but now listen to this he talks about how

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God gives first but then he puts things backwards all sudden it goes from God gives first to somebody gives and then

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God gives them I don't know where the transition happened but it it happens for well I'll just read it to you

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God so loved the world that he gave John 316 then he says we see this wondrous law in practice all through the

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Bible now listen see if you can see the shift here Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek priest of the

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Most High who most police people believe is the pre -incarnate Christ he doesn't mention that here but Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and received a miracle son in his old age we just went from God gave first to Abraham gave first I think is that what happened now is that was that cause and effect did

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Abraham give a tithe to Melchizedek and therefore in his old age he received a son well you know this is where I get all my good theology now let's see this is good this is good

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Solomon also built the great temple of God with gold and silver so much so that it was said the king made silver and gold as common in Jerusalem as stones

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Wow but then the dedication of the temple Solomon gave a thank -you offering of 22 ,000 oxen 122 thousand sheep

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Wow again no wonder God said there was not a king before or after Solomon as great or rich as he and we can go on blah blah blah blah but then he gets down to what we're going to talk about a little bit you have robbed me of the tithes and offerings do me and he brings up this idea of tithing but this is good to listen he says he's talking about how they used it to support the temple he says why was

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God so concerned about the support for his temple ah I'm glad you asked you may have heard me like in the great temple to God's TV network of the day his temple was to show the nations of the world who the true and living

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God was now I don't I don't doubt several of you have been to Jerusalem and when you go there and you see the

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Temple Mount and you think you know you can see the Dome of the Rock basically from almost every place and you think that the temple was much bigger than the

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Dome of the Rock I mean it commanded the entire valley do you think it must have been impressive but I mean was this kind of God's way of saying

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I'm better than all the other God should we look at all the other temples that were built to false gods was that the purpose of it

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I I don't think so I think it was to say more that he was with his people see he just in closing here he says

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Abraham and his tithe to Melchizedek Rahab and her scarlet cord which I skipped over King Solomon and his thousand birth 10 ,000 burned offerings while the study about the law of giving and receiving again

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God gave first and now it's giving then receiving again

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I'm glad you asked we dear partners are building temples yes you know there are temples are not of gold and silver although if you watch our

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TV show you might get confused Paul the great apostle makes it clear we are the temples of God his eternal plan from the beginning was to bring many sons unto glory true praise

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God souls are streaming into glory through our TBN temple the 24 -hour prayer lines ring and ring and ring and we give and receive etc etc etc more terrible theology so done with that I wish

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I had a shredder up here I would shred it we started talking about giving and I would invite you to open your

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Bibles to 2nd Corinthians chapter 9 I guess

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I don't have to open my Bibles because once again I've printed them out for my purposes so I don't have to do it and I'm going to quickly go over where we were and we'll catch up and keep going 2nd

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Corinthians chapter 9 beginning in verse 6 the point is this whoever so sparingly will also reap sparingly and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully each one must give as he has decided in his heart not reluctantly or under compulsion for God loves a cheerful giver we began expanding on that a little bit last week and some of the characteristics of biblical giving number one purposefully me see right there in the text that you are to give as you have decided or purposed in your heart said the responsibility rests on the individual and not on the church as such the church doesn't assess everybody this isn't the government we don't give out assessments of what everybody has to give this year thankfully each person must ponder this matter and is his or her own heart and then decide so the entire congregation may be united in contributing to the collection we talked about how if you miss a week that doesn't mean that you get to keep the money

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I can't afford to go to church this week I'll just stay home so it needs to be you need to give purposefully you need to give cheerfully and this is where we left off last week me there's an interesting concept you know are you cheerful when the offering plate comes by and you put your your offering in there kiss the marker says pulses of the act of giving must be accomplished neither reluctantly nor grudgingly reluctance implies a clean to possessions that one hardly wants to give and when they have been given the giver grieves giving grudgingly denotes that external pressures compel one to conform to the rules of society now let's just think about that for the several points here reluctance you don't want to give but you give anyway it implies that what you're giving away you consider more valuable than you ought to really we talked about that on Matthew 6 how

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Jesus tells us not to you know value the things of the world that can that are subject to rust and to moths but can you imagine you know you put your envelope in the in the plates and then you grieve what have

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I done there goes that new Hot Wheels said I was going to get on eBay

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I don't know why Hot Wheels popped in my head childhood so there's that but how about this idea of external pressures you know do you ever think when the plates coming down the road you just think well if I don't put something in there people are going to know that I didn't put something in there we shouldn't think like that I mean we're not supposed to really kind of look around while we do that I mean if it says you know not to the right left shouldn't know what the left hands doing or whatever

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I think the the principle is you know we're not to make a gaudy display I would like everyone to see the size of the check that I'm about to put in put it in there and on the other hand it's not something that we should that we should feel compelled we should feel pressured to put in and I came up with this on my own

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I think it's a brilliant insight thanks Becky if if you don't plan to give in other words if the first point isn't correct if you haven't thought through it if you haven't purposed if you haven't planned if you haven't determined in your own mind that I'm going to submit to you this morning it is impossible to be joyful about it why because you didn't determine you know and it's just kind of a spur -of -the - where it's going in there and you won't ultimately feel good about it because a well it tells me a lot of things first of all it tells me that you're not tracking your money right if the way that you give is the plate comes by and you reach in your wallet and you give the you know you make your lint offering then you haven't purpose you haven't planned and therefore there are other problems with your financial picture far beyond this but you're not going to enjoy giving it

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I also note this and I thought this a brilliant insight that I made up if you don't if you don't enjoy giving there are other problems you've you've buried yourself in debt you're worried about things because you're not thinking about your money as a stewardship you're not thinking about your money as a gift from God and you are not thinking rightly at all now this question is anyone is any

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Christian let's put it that way exempt from giving I don't think so I don't think so now there are some you know if you're on a really tight budget it might be really hard to give you should still give something why should why should you give something even if you don't have that much and please don't say the widow and her two mites or two it's all

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God's anyways and and we're not looking at it rightly if we think you know what I'm too poor to give then you've you've really got the your budget is upside down you should give something now here's a question is it anyone else's business how much you give should

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I be accountable to Peggy I'm just I'm throwing

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Peggy out it's just I mean is there anybody who needs to know what I give is there anyone who needs to know what you give no and I I've said it before you know

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Fred did this for many years was the financial secretary and I think that is probably the worst job here and now

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Bob and raising does it why do I call it the worst job why is it the worst job because you know what everybody gives

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I would hate to know what everybody the church gives I would hate that why well

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I might be prone to favoritism but I might also just be prone to say dude I I can't believe what you give it's just kind of embarrassing isn't it and I I just don't need to know

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I don't need to know that in fact the ideal situation would be where nobody knows but sadly somebody has to know somebody has to keep track of it so we all get receipts at the end of the year now there is one exception to the is it anyone else's business if you give or how much you give we established several years ago the idea and I think this is a good one why well

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I guess I can give it to you but why do you think it would be important for the church to determine that deacons and elders are sacrificial givers any thoughts on that the the email where the guy the thief who got restored to the oh was he an elder

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I see I didn't even pay that close attention to it I just saw somebody stolen was yeah open your

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Bibles for a moment to first Timothy chapter 3 the saying is trustworthy if anyone aspires to the officer of overseer elder he desires a noble task therefore an overseer must be above reproach the husband of one wife sober -minded self -controlled respectable hospitable able to teach not a drunkard not violent but gentle not quarrelsome not a lover of money

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I mean this just kind of goes with it you can't you know somebody can't let's put it this way someone who is not a sacrificial giver there's something wrong with the way they view money and they probably are not to be an elder or a deacon

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I think that's kind of common sense okay so the second part is in terms of giving we need to be cheerful givers cheerful givers and the third point is sacrificial giving

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I sort of gave that away but elders and deacons must be sacrificial givers I think that goes hand -in -hand with being cheerful about it what's well we won't we won't read all that but MacArthur says this about Acts 17 1 through 15 he says it records that the

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Macedonians really were in some very difficult situations and Paul's letters corroborate the reality of suffering affliction persecution and tribulation for those churches yet in the face of those overwhelming hardships the

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Macedonians displayed no quote poor me mentality in other words they weren't whining they offered no excuses instead they gave even though as they even as they were enduring intense prolonged suffering and deprivation this is the way devout

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Christians react in other words he's saying look when the chips were down the

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Macedonians gave all the more why because they understood that there were others who were suffering and they wanted to help them 2nd

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Corinthians 8 verses 1 to 5 2nd Corinthians 8 verses 1 to 5 and I'm gonna read that we want you to know brothers about the grace of God that has been given among the churches of Macedonia for in a severe test of affliction this is exactly what

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MacArthur was talking about their abundance of joy and their extreme poverty have overflowed in a wealth of generosity on their part

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I want to talk about sacrificial giving they're in severe affliction and yet how do they respond in joy even though they're extremely impoverished they give for they gave according to their means as I can testify and beyond their means of their own accord no campaign to squeeze money out of them

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I mean there are ways of you know sort of bribing people you know the

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TBN thing they have an offering every month where if you send money in they send you something that's one way to go another way is to send

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Rocco and you know Louie over your house and shake you down I don't know how well that would work but they gave their own accord begging us earnestly for the favor of taking part in the relief of the

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Saints and this not as we expected for but they gave themselves first to the

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Lord and then by the will of God to us Lenski said this he said they they talking about the

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Macedonians made a joy of robbing themselves made a joy of robbing themselves that's sacrificial giving

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MacArthur goes on to say they rose above the pain sorrow and struggle of difficult circumstances as for the sake of others they were happy to divest themselves of what little they had that's sacrificial giving you know we often talk about or we often hear the story about the widow's mites and all that but MacArthur kind of blew that out of the water a couple years ago at Shepherds Conference if you didn't hear that you should because it was pretty it's pretty good he took a contrarian view and it was pretty compelling okay so sacrificially we want to give fourthly generously generously not with a mindset of punching a ticket or satisfying satisfying satisfying a requirement meeting a threshold instead we want to be givers who are overflowing in a wealth of generosity the word generosity or liberality and other translations literally means integrity or single -mindedness it is without reservation without double -mindedness in other words this this kind of hesitation should

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I give that much do I feel comfortable giving that much that should already be done that should be determined well ahead of time and so when the offering plate comes by you don't even think about it you're done and you're happy to give but again you know this idea that somehow we have to meet a certain threshold a predetermined threshold and we'll talk more about that later we should also give proportionally fifth point is proportionally those who have more should give more 2nd

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Corinthians 8 verse 3 for they gave according to their means what does that mean it means you can't give what you do not have you know if I say

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I'm going to I'm gonna pledge a million dollars to the new building that should pretty much get us the parking lot sorry if I said

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I was gonna pledge a million dollars so that it would mean nothing why because I couldn't do it anyway we give proportionate to what we have that's why we don't want to give pledge drives we don't want to do telethons where we tell you to you know pledge more than what you have step out in faith and if we're going to give sacrificially joyfully and all these other things and then we come down to proportionately well what does that mean it means if you have a lot and you give the same amount or even the same percentage as somebody who has little then maybe you're not quite getting the points and I've made this analogy before but if you make a million dollars and you give 10 % that's still a lot of money not that you're not entitled to you know some fun and all that but that's still a lot of money voluntarily and we're gonna talk about tithing here in a moment but voluntarily 2nd

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Corinthians 9 7 again not reluctantly or under compulsion it is entirely between you and the

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Lord so there's no reason to feel forced to give if somebody if you ever hear somebody say

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I feel pressure to give where's that pressure come from I don't know could it be your conscience

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I'll tell you where it's not coming from it's not coming from any of the elders I've mentioned this before but you know think about this if in the

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Mormon Church if to get to the highest degree of heaven you have to get married in the temple you have to even though there's no temple marriage in the

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Bible or the Book of Mormon you have to get married in the temple to get to the highest degree of heaven and how do you get to the temple well one of the ways is by paying 10 % tithing you have to pay tithing you have to not drink coffee smoke cigarettes drink hot tea what else can't you do don't smoke don't chew okay all that kind of stuff you know you can't go to r -rated movies they have all these rules and if you obey all those rules then you get to go to the temple and and get married now in order to pass the test that you are actually giving 10 % every year you go before the bishop and I don't know that they've changed it and asked to see your w -2s or anything like that but you tell him whether you are a full tithe pair or not and if not why not we haven't done that and we won't do that because that's not what the

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Bible says not reluctantly or under compulsion no one is looking over your shoulder except for the

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Lord and that's what I mean it's entirely between you and the Lord if you can say with a clear conscience that you're meeting the biblical standard of joyfully giving giving voluntarily sacrificially everything else then okay

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I'm okay with that I'm fine with that you should be fine with it too final point after voluntarily is in some loving submission to the

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Lord we should do that in all things right we want to please him and all that we do and how we handle our finances again is another one of those issues do our thoughts of money and our wealth and what we control what we are entitled to do those match how

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God would view them we want to please him and all that we do now let's talk about tithing this is fascinating to me well first of all let me issue this this is gonna come up later but I just like this anyway tithing some people say that we should give 10 % of our pre -tax income you know my favorite retort to that is if you give 10 % of your pre -tax income what happens if the tax rate gets to 95 % then you're losing 5 % every month you're in a bad way if I make $100 ,000 a year let's make it easy $100 ,000 a month whoo live at large and I give 10 % of the gross that's $10 ,000 and then the government wants $95 ,000 95 plus 10 is 105 and I make 100

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I'm in I'm in a bad way I think the biblical the

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New Testament principle is clearly we give sacrificially we give joyfully we do all these other things but I don't think there's a 10 % we'll get to that here now true or false tithing existed before the law was given who said true and how do you know that Brad Abraham many offerings had father

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Abraham Genesis 14 let's turn their Genesis 14 verses 17 to 20 and would someone read that please when they get their

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Genesis 17 or I'm sorry Genesis 14 verses 17 to 20 yes sir a tenth or a tithe right why did he do that what was the command to give a tenth of everything there was a month so if the idea of tithing came before the law then what does that suggest maybe about tithing well that it that it's voluntary it certainly was in this case and that it not doesn't necessarily comport with how we think about the law let's put it this way was it wrong to murder before the law was established yeah and it was wrong during the law or wrong after the law because it was a basic principle and you say well what are you saying that tithing was a basic principle no let's keep going what did

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Jesus say well let's what about the Sabbath there's another there's another one was the

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Sabbath commanded and the Ten Commandments yes did the Sabbath as a principle as exists before the

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Sabbath or before the Commandments yes and yet what did Jesus say about the

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Sabbath I'm sorry it was made for man and not man for the

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Sabbath and he basically did things that you know just shocked the Pharisees so the question is you know was was the

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Sabbath an enduring principle or was it a principle made to make a point and I think

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Jesus pretty much said it was made to make a point people want to you know I think for people who are sabbatarians today

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I go well I hope you rest fully on Saturday because that would be the biblical design but I digress what about animal sacrifices we had those before the law even though the law commanded them so MacArthur says that Old Testament tithing had elements of voluntary like we saw there with Abraham Abraham voluntary and required giving before Moses time as it did during the time before and after the law of Moses so giving wasn't just relegated to the law but let's talk about tithing what was the purpose of tithing why did

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Israel tithe in fact you know I read that earlier from Paul Crouch the beloved theologian about what would a man rob

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God and not paying his tithes well how was he robbing God and it gets right back to this this point what was the purpose of tithing in the

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Israeli economy and it was basically was a tax it was a lot of things listen to it how

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MacArthur describes it he says the tithe was was the 10 % tax used to supply the needs of the

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Levites the priests because they had no livelihoods and received no land there the

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Levites worked in the temple they served the Lord in the temple they had all manner of things that they did including killing all the animals and all the things that went on there which didn't really make a living nobody was paying them $20 an hour they didn't have a priest union or anything like that to negotiate for them and furthermore the tribe of Levi what was their part of the land what do they get they got nothing zip and so the tithing was instituted to keep these these guys alive basically

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I mean this was their livelihood was the other tribes gave 10 % to the

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Levites MacArthur goes on to say the first tithe was a mandatory 1 10th of the people's produce and animals okay so that's the first tithe the 10 % for the

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Levites because they had no livelihoods and received no land the second tithe second tithe is found in Deuteronomy 12 verses 10 and 11 and verse 17 and 18 and I'll read that but when you go over the

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Jordan and live in that in the land that the Lord your God is giving you to inherit and when he gives you rest from all your enemies around so that you live in safety then to the place that the

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Lord your God will choose to make his name dwell there there you shall bring all that I command you your burnt offerings and your sacrifices your tithes and the contribution that you present and all your finest vow offerings that you vow to the

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Lord and you shall rejoice before the Lord your God you and your sons and your daughters your male servants and your female servants and the

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Levite that is within your towns since he has no portion or inheritance with you verse 17 you may not eat within your towns the tithe of your grain or of your wine or of your oil or the firstborn of your herd or of your flock or any of your vow offerings that you vow or your freewill offerings or the contribution that you present but you shall eat them before the

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Lord your God in the place that the Lord your God will choose you and your daughter or you and your son and your daughter your male servant your female servant the

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Levite who is within your towns and you shall rejoice before the Lord your God in all that you undertake so he says this tithe the second giving was promoted it was designed to promote national religious worship and unity then there was a third tithe that occurred every three years that's been a

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Deuteronomy 14 28 and 29 and this tithe was basically to help this was

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I guess we could call it our deacons fund it was designed to help strangers the fatherless and widows it was the social safety net as it were of the day so we're a little bit above 23 percent in terms of tithes but we're not done yet there was also a profit -sharing tax

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I guess you could call it capital gains tax there was a requirement that the land if you were a farmer or rancher you had cattle or whatever that you had to let you to rotate through the land and let the land rest every seven years so that would reduce the amount of crops that you could get there was also a temple tax that you had to pay every year so the total was well over 25 percent like I before I think some most people think it was somewhere between about 27 and maybe about 33 or 34 percent of your income was given in tithes and additionally there were free will offerings so that was a lot of giving and again

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I get back to this is that on the gross of the net and it's and it's rhetorical but the question ultimately for us is are we to look at the

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Old Testament and go okay we need to give like Israel gave and the answer is

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I don't think so in fact if we look at what the New Testament says about tithing and we can wrap this up here fairly quickly and we'll maybe expand a little bit more what is the

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New Testament teach about tithing how many times you think Jesus talked about tithing can

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I hear zero times how many how many say zero how many say one how many say two how many say three

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Brian raises his hand every single time okay the answer is twice he mentioned it but both referring to taxation or required giving what you know it was when he talked about the tax gather in the

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Pharisee right he was he said I tied and all that I you know but uh and then the other time he talks about is in Matthew 23 where he says woe to you

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Pharisees hypocrites and he doesn't say anything good about it he never commands tithing and Hebrews 7 verses 4 to 9 the concept of tithing is given but it or is talked about but again not any kind of command or imperative and in fact in all the

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New Testament there is no command to tithe why not because tithing was taxation and we don't live in a theocracy anymore we don't live under that system anymore we pay we render under Caesar unto

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Caesar what a Caesar's and then we give to the Lord what is the Lord's we don't they're not combined anymore so anyway that that's just some basic principles on giving a brief overview on tithing

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I don't believe that we can look at tithing and say that is a New Testament principle on the other hand if you think about the

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Macedonians and about their sacrificial giving even in the light of persecution and in not having much it's kind of a challenge to think about how much we have and then how much we give okay if there are any questions shoot me an email ask me after class and we'll address those next week let's pray our father we thank you for the abundance that you've given us you know even if we are struggling to get by in many cases that can either be through decisions that we've made ourselves or circumstances may be outside of our control but in any event no matter how we measure it we are rich in Christ Jesus and we praise you for that Lord we would just pray that you would work in your your people through your spirit that you would convict us of our need to be faithful stewards of what you've given us to think about our money rightly to give rightly to seek to please you and all that we do with our money

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Lord to just watch over it very very carefully knowing that we will be held accountable just as surely as will be held accountable for anything