April 5, 2022 Show with Ed Boyle & Keith Foskey on “Transforming Formerly Liberal Churches”

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Good.

Afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the

planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron Radio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this fifth

day of April 2022 and today I have a first -time

guest and also a returning guest.

The first hour we have the honor and privilege of featuring Ed Boyle

minister of Trinity Christian Church of New Bloomfield, Pennsylvania and

In the second hour, we will have my friend Keith Foskey Who is one of three

pastors at Sovereign Grace Family Church of Jacksonville, Florida.

They're both going to be addressing the same theme Transforming churches

formerly in liberal denominations for the glory of Christ Jesus and his

Gospel of Sovereign Grace and it's my honor and privilege to welcome for the very first time ever to iron

sharpens iron radio pastor Ed Boyle.

Thanks for having me on Chris and.

First of all, tell us about Trinity Christian Church of New Bloomfield, Pennsylvania, and I know that one of the

reasons You are on the program today.

Discussing transforming churches formerly in liberal denominations.

For the glory of Christ Jesus and his Gospel of Sovereign Grace.

Is that this church at one time?

Was a.

Member congregation in one of the most liberal if not

leftist and even apostate denominations within so -called

Protestantism the United Church of Christ and It really rivals

the far -left Denomination the Unitarian Universalist

Church.

But tell us about the Trinity Church of New Bloomfield, Pennsylvania Today

and then we'll get into the actual transformation of the congregation and just a little bit.

Seminary, you know, I had retired from the army went to some of

your seminary I was looking and of course, there's no there was no market out there for a former army guy with no

previous pastoral experience.

So My pastor had he sent me in a link.

He said hey, there's some Churches that belong to some previously liberal denominations.

I'm kind of looking for once you take a look at who to think.

I said sure I'll look and so I looked and I'm a native Pennsylvanian.

So this church their self -description The land of

July 27 church left the

UCC and then some more folks left after I arrived.

Go but

madness going

on.

I think not everyone realized there was actually a reformed church right here in the middle of Perry County

and it hadn't been

burned and.

Ironically the denomination the United Church of Christ if you go back far enough

It was a thoroughly reformed.

In fact a Puritan denomination.

Most churches that you see with the name Congregationalist Church

Are from or used to be from the United Church of Christ and the congregational churches

Initially were Puritan churches and what a tragedy to see how far they have.

Devolved.

And become so Theologically corrupt and doctrinally bankrupt.

It's just such a tragedy to see.

A.

Movement which began with such biblical purity and Now becoming

for lack of a better term for the most part synagogues of Satan.

Yeah, additional

Christian Church merged with the Evangelical and Reforms Church.

But they did have German right and then on the other side the Congregational Church as

they flourished and

beauty

of the gospel.

Yeah, and we can can even look at the major Ivy League

schools here in the United States that began as Puritan seminaries and

now Are far far from that such a a tragedy

even as Recent as the 19th century Princeton was

a fine institution and had such faculty members as BB Warfield and

now you have absolutely horrifying things being

Taught by some of the faculty there.

Just absolutely astonishing and satanic.

Now, of course, I don't want to Act as if there are no Christians present there.

I have to be very careful, but it is definitely a far far cry.

From what it once was in his it's a day and the corruption began

In the early 20th century, which is why Jay Gresham Machen eventually founded Westminster

Theological Seminary.

Well, we have a tradition here Pastor Ed that whenever we have a first -time guest

and you are one we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony,

including the kind of theological or religious atmosphere in which they were

raised if any and What kind of providential circumstances raised up

in that person's life that the Lord and his sovereignty used to draw them to himself and save them.

So let's hear an abbreviation of your story.

I'm a

memorial not

to work.

The mines here in PA the anthracite mines the hard coal mines since Patrick Boyle came over to Philadelphia.

That was Irish Catholic.

He was a

world where that

didn't go over all the family.

He pulled us out of the Catholic Church simply Catholic.

We were Irish Catholic.

Very much a culture praise

God.

This is something that I'm learning for the first time about your father.

I can't

be afraid of what anybody else

is gonna think.

He saw that anyone else I was just a

a wee slip of a lad that had become disabled on

the road.

I'm sure where to go.

Genuinely, yes there.

It's interesting how.

And I don't mean to disparage The group that identifies themselves as independent fundamentalist

Baptist.

I have many dear friends in that movement that I actually enjoy their friendship even

today and but it's interesting how they cling to a phrase and

concepts of the old -time religion and One of the reasons that you and I would have

disagreement with them as we know that their religion at least.

The unique.

Aspects of it that involve Dispensationalism and some other things is Not nearly as

old as they think.

In fact, it's it's hardly more than a hundred and sixty years old.

Way I was learning and

growing but

enchanted by

the

things

of I mourn and

grieve the faith of my childhood that I

know is True.

It was during

the ninth beginning of

at the mid

to late 90s.

I

really

make

career

several times I wanted if I should just get out finish off in the reserve something like that.

Once in the army, it has that you become a chaplain, even though I never really thought.

Last year in the army I just asked

my wife I applied after what she thought about me applying to Covenant Theological

Seminary.

Which my last duty

assignment.

I had to survive

major spinal surgery.

Now, what was it that

drew you

to Covenant Theological Seminary?

I'm assuming That you came to embrace the doctrines of sovereign grace also known as

reformed theology or Calvinism, right?

But prior to that

at the time

I was

not our

Trinity

here as area pastors.

We didn't have to move.

I think the Lord arranged things where

we could simply

attend

without

having to move now.

How did you come to initially embrace the doctrines of reformed theology?

I?

Think you know, I have questions of my pastor.

We were stationed at West Point, New York for a time are gonna an hour north.

Where you were living in Long Island, Chris.

Yeah, I have.

I've actually visited the chapel there.

Okay?

Yeah, the Church Independent Fundamental Baptist Church.

Down to my pastor I had questions about election

of the f -word a

dead book.

And just tell me what you think

and you have some

questions.

Are we here to actually attend at Princeton when he knew?

Bloomberg had several reformed chaplains in one place.

It was remarkable.

I've never had something study.

I got a bunch

of scrolls

teaching serious first on

now.

Since the theme is involving the transformation of churches formerly

in liberal denominations.

What was it that compelled those members of that United

Church of Christ Congregation where you are now pastoring.

What was it that?

Was the stated reasons to you as to why these men and women?

Desire to no longer associate with that denomination.

It's it's interesting to me over the years I have known of

certain individuals and congregations That had a similar experience

where they were in a liberal Congregation or in a congregation I should say

in a liberal denomination and even those among them that would not

be Reliably considered truly regenerate.

They are just folks that have been raised in a an

atmosphere of Biblical moral principles and

They have an under they have a world view that would have been more

dominant in the last century and the earlier half of the last

century.

But some of these folks As I said some of these folks

that I have met and had conversations with their their

desire to depart from some of these liberal denominations is because of the extreme

lengths that these denominations in the 21st century have gone to

to oppose biblical Christianity.

The extreme.

A.

Desire to welcome unrepentant homosexuals into their mists and not

only welcome them into their mists and tolerate them but to celebrate them and ordain them

into the ministry and the pro -abortion stance.

The the the lust for blood that many in the left have.

To murder the children.

That may seem like a bit of hyperbole there, but I don't believe it is at all.

So some of the some of the folks especially if they are an older group of people their sensibilities are shocked

by these things.

And even if they're not truly children of God they still have

a Romans one instinct about these things that That makes them

frightened and and repulsed.

Chris you're right here.

I'm here with regard to it.

They formally left you see

they called a guy to do pulpit supply who wound up becoming more or less their interim pastor here and

a great man of God.

Chris who else would hire a knucklehead like me?

Uncle

had Nick from

Eastern

candidate and I did and three weeks later.

They called me and we moved out.

I understood that they left the UCC talking to a number of the folks.

They describe themselves as can so many churches like this.

Overwhelmingly cultural Christians is when they say they're conservative.

They mean they vote and they have generally

conserved

a whole different matter what

disturbed a lot of people.

In fact, can you pick up right where you left off there because we have to go to our first break right now.

Yeah, sure.

If anybody wants to join us with a question for Ed Boyle, our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail

.com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com ch r is a r n z e and a gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you are someone in a liberal congregation or a congregation in a

liberal denomination and you'd like to see your congregation

depart from that apostate body.

And you don't want to at this point draw attention to yourself.

You might be a congregation member or you might even be a pastor.

We would understand reasons like that would compel you to be anonymous.

But if it's just a general question, please give us your first name city and state and country of residence.

We'll be right back with Ed Boyle right after these messages from our sponsors as a mother.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnson.

If you just tuned us in the entire program today is dedicated to the theme of

Two men who were who are pastoring churches that

were formerly in liberal denominations and the.

The discussion is involving the transformation of these churches for the glory of Christ Jesus and his

gospel of sovereign grace.

For the first hour we have ed Boyle of Trinity Christian Church of New Bloomfield, Pennsylvania.

On the program that congregation was formerly in the United Church of Christ and upcoming

after the five o 'clock midway break We are going to be

joined by Keith Foskey one of three pastors at Sovereign Grace Family Church of Jacksonville, Florida formerly in the

Disciples of Christ Denomination which has become extremely liberal as well.

For questions send them to Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

And I believe before the break pastor ed you were talking about how?

The consensus of the congregation.

That decided to withdraw that congregation from the United Church of Christ.

Denomination had more to do with socio -political

economic reasons.

Concert what is considered conservative?

Social and moral and moral principles.

Rather than an actual allegiance to Christ Jesus and his inerrant word.

I.

Couple the

foot they

simply

grew

up

and

he

was that a

church

that

was

in the

group

that

was

formerly

known as the.

Eureka classes.

Currently called the Reformed Church in the United States a German Reformed

denomination, okay.

I was just curious.

We do have an anonymous listener who says Ideally if one is

planting a church the only people that would be permitted into membership are

those that have a believable profession of faith and are baptized.

The situation that you are in it seems may have been the reverse where you are inheriting a church where

actual members are.

Unregenerate, how do you deal with the situation on when to make it clear to

unregenerate people or those that are?

At least.

Making their lives evident that they are unregenerate that they have to be removed

from membership in Christ's true flock.

That's a really good question.

And when we had to deal with fairly forthwith here

Fundamentals of

the condition of man without the grace of God

the basics of this and so a

number of people signed it.

But I.

Efforts

in

educating

them.

Church membership role.

And.

Obviously a good retort to that would be well that your family members from

five generations ago would share my Opinion that you're not regenerate.

I.

Just have to very quickly share a story that's going to be abbreviated that relates to what you just said

years ago when I worked for WMC a radio a Salem media affiliate an

elderly Jewish man who was a journalist Orthodox Jew Contacted me said he wanted to

buy three hours of airtime to debate a local independent fundamentalist Baptist

pastor in Brooklyn and he wanted to debate on whether or not

Jesus is God and whether the New Testament is God's Word.

And This man considered himself although a Jew an Orthodox Jew he

considered himself a student of the New Testament claiming to have read it at least a hundred

times and so I sold this man the airtime and I'm listening to the debate and

He says to his fundamentalist Baptist opponent.

Let me get this straight you believe that God shows Certain

people before the foundation of the world to be saved and he bypassed

Everybody else and they're going to hell and the Baptist pastor said, excuse me.

Ira.

Wait a minute.

Wait a minute Ira, you got me all wrong.

I'm not a Calvinist and the Jewish man said you're not a what?

I'm not a Calvinist.

That's the Calvinist.

He said Calvinist is what you're describing Ira because I've never even heard of that word.

I'm talking about your Bible your New Testament.

I've read it a hundred times.

That's clearly what it is.

Yes, we have another anonymous listener who says

Since this congregation was formerly in the United Church of Christ Which believes in

infant baptism in addition to other things that are absolutely abhorrent and liberal.

How did your congregation overcome the hurdle of Believing in believers baptism

only if indeed that is your position you didn't make it clear in the beginning whether you are a pedo Baptist

congregation or a.

Reformed

Baptist congregation.

There's a

few

things

here

to

minister

to people.

Yes,

so do you

require?

Immersion of professing believers for membership in your local congregation.

No, we

basically

the position

that the

Evangelical

Free Church would have.

Well, I I know for a fact that they do not.

Require baptism for membership.

They believe that a believer who is a member should pursue that.

But they don't require.

Unlike a Reformed Baptist Church who would require it not for salvation, but for right membership, and I'm sure you would agree.

I don't know if our anonymous listener meant it this way.

I Have a feeling he did not or she did not.

But we would not equate the belief and practice of infant baptism as much as you and I

disagree with it, we would not equate it with the the Liberal or should I

even say leftist apostate abominations of belief in practice? that

the liberal or left -wing denominations have come to.

Believe and teach and practice exactly because I mean I've

been in

a denominational structure.

Affirmed infant baptism, but both of them understood it wasn't efficacious itself.

That's one of those issues where we disagree.

But that's not an issue, which I would break fellowship with the otherwise very

solid.

In fact, there's another.

Extremely conservative even fundamental

Denomination.

Whose pastors I have grown to love the ones that I've heard preached the Free Presbyterian

Church of Ulster in Northern Ireland which also has a wing here in the United

States the Free Presbyterian Church of North America and they Are one of

those very rare Presbyterian churches?

Whose Ministers are predominantly Baptistic who believe in

credo rather than pedo baptism.

They only immerse Professing believers and do not baptize infants, although there are some

pedo Baptist ministers in their midst.

And if a If a couple has a baby and they want the baby baptized

if a pastor of that congregation happens to be a credo or

baptistic minister he will tell them that we will have to

invite a pedo Baptist minister into the To the congregation to perform

The ordinance.

We will not do that.

So I'm assuming that's the same thing that you're doing.

Yeah.

But you you're saying though that you would allow someone to have their baby baptized

by somebody other than yourself.

Well, not in the not in the church here.

Okay, no not in the not.

But it wouldn't be a disciplinary issue if they went to another church to have their baby baptized.

No, as long as

Now in

the few minutes that we have left.

Can you summarize?

Perhaps What you most want etched in the hearts and minds perhaps particularly for pastors

who are going through the same experience that you?

Have gone through maybe some Quick do's and don'ts and I know that you mentioned patience earlier.

Being a key element in doing something that you're involved in.

If you could conclude our program in that manner.

I would say to my brother pastors facing in this situation or

other people who are simply attending a church That is

gonna also recall the words of the Lord to his own disciples.

I have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.

Consider that a Local pastor here mentioned that to me when I was really frustrated.

I thought about that that a lot of the folks here Simply we're not in a rebellion against the scripture.

They simply didn't know what the Bible taught so much as of what I was preaching.

Straightforwardly and directly week after week was threatening to what they thought was Christian.

And so they were simply sheep who had been deceived and spiritually malnourished.

Folks just simply are going to leave these people that were my

friends.

I've grown to genuinely love them and I see them around.

Well, thank

you so

much pastor.

Ed, I want to let our listeners know what your website is.

It's TCC and be org that's TCC for

Trinity Christian Church and B for new Bloomfield Dot org

and that is Trinity Christian Church in new Bloomfield, Pennsylvania.

I look forward to having you return to the program and hopefully the next time for two hours brother.

I know that your schedule did not permit you to be on for the whole program today.

But I look forward to your return and your frequent return to the program.

I really enjoyed our discussion.

God bless you, too.

And Coming up folks for the second hour to discuss the same theme That

we discussed with pastor Ed Boyle during the first Hour of the program we have Keith Foskey

Joining us.

He is one of three pastors of Sovereign Grace Family Church of Jacksonville, Florida, which is a congregation

formerly in the Disciples of Christ another very liberal

Mainline denomination, which was a which was formally affiliated with the

restoration movement Started by Thomas and Alexander Campbell in the 19th century,

which led to three major groups the Church of Christ a cappella the Church

of Christ and Christian churches that use musical instruments and on the far left of the spectrum of

Disciples of Christ, but we will be Discussing the same theme transforming churches formerly in liberal

denominations for the glory of Christ Jesus and his gospel of Sovereign Grace.

If you have a question send it to Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com and Give us your first name at least your city and state and country of

residence.

Please be patient.

This is the longer break that we have in the middle of the show because grace life radio 90 .1 FM in

Lake City, Florida requires of us the longer break because they have to according to the FCC

localize on your trip and Zion radio geographically to Lake City, Florida and they do so with their own public service

announcements and we simultaneously air our Globally heard commercials.

So please be patient.

We'll be right back after these messages.

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Before we are joined by Keith Foskey of Sovereign Grace Family Church of Jacksonville, Florida.

Who is going to continue the theme transforming churches formally and liberal denominations for the glory of Christ

Jesus and his gospel of Sovereign Grace.

We just have a couple of announcements to make.

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Last but not least if you are not a member of a biblically sound Christ honoring

doctrinally solid church like Trinity Christian Church of New Bloomfield, Pennsylvania or

Sovereign Grace Family Church of Jacksonville, Florida.

Well, no matter where in the world you live I have extensive lists of biblically faithful churches

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So if you're in that predicament, please send me an email to Chris Arnsen at gmail .com.

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That's also the email address where you could send in a question for our second guest today Keith

Foskey who is pastor of Sovereign Grace Family Church of Jacksonville, Florida.

Which is a congregation formally in the Disciples of Christ and we're discussing Transforming

churches formerly in liberal denominations and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Keith Foskey.

Oh my pleasure let our listeners know something about Sovereign Grace Family Church of Jacksonville, Florida as

it exists today.

If you know anything about the Jacksonville area, we're on the north side of Jacksonville, which is nears from the

Jacksonville International Airport.

That's the 1646

London Baptist Confession, which is actually the first.

We have

an elder

governor

continue to be

faithful to us in all these years and I have had the privilege of.

Worshipping with those dear saints there in Jacksonville, Florida.

During a conference that you hosted for. Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, and I just have nothing

but The most fond memories of that experience and I ask you to send my

warm greetings in Christ to the Saints there in Jacksonville

and the website I hope to repeat this later if I remember but it's sg fc

Jax Jax .org.

That's sg fc for Sovereign Grace Family Church.

Sg fc Jax jax .org.

Well, tell me how you came to.

For the first time.

How you came to be familiar with this congregation before it bore the current name?

Sovereign Grace Family Church.

When it was in the denomination known as the disciples of Christ as I said earlier.

This is a denomination that has become an extremely mainline leftist

Denomination one might even say apostate.

Not that every single person in that denomination Is apostate but certainly

that is the predominance of it.

It broke away from their sister Restorationist churches

which began with Thomas and Alexander Campbell in the 19th century.

They are the Church of Christ, which is a strictly a cappella worship group and

then you have the churches of Christ and Christian churches, which typically has musical instruments and then you

have the disciples of Christ which basically has become completely alienated by the

other two groups because The disciples of Christ as I said has become extremely left

-wing and apostate for the most part.

How did you become familiar with this congregation when it was still a part of the disciples of Christ.

I grew up in this church and when it was a part of the disciples of Christ.

I was a kid I grew up here.

And so it isn't like I heard I

mean My mom and dad were divorced when I was six years old.

My stepmom came into my life when I was seven and the first thing she said was you got to go to church.

Okay, and she was a faithful church member.

It still is and so at seven years old She began to bring me to church and it was then

called Forrest Christian Church disciples of Christ.

That was the name of the church and I didn't know the difference between a Baptist a Catholic or anything

else.

I just knew that it was a Christian church because that was in the title Forrest Christian Church and

I grew up going to Sunday school doing the normal church youth group thing.

But when I turned 19 years old, I had just recently I got married at 19.

So after I was married I Got legitimately saved

but I got saved to truly

desire the things of God

and to truly desire the Word of God and so my life and heart changed

the church of my youth the church that I grew up in and So I kept going to the

same church that I had always gone to but with a new set of eyes and a new heart because God had changed

my mind my heart and My wife as well got saved about the same time as I did we were

both very young right then about 19 20 years old and We both began

the things that the church was it

wasn't as if they were promoting Wild left or something

like that or was not

being clearly proclaimed what

what we would think the pastor would get

up he would tell stories and then he would

End a sermon with was nothing

about sin.

There was nothing about the South salvation by grace alone through faith alone.

And the more I recognized that those things were absent the more I began to wonder am I?

Should I continue in this church and about that time about two

years later?

God confirmed in my heart that had

to have opportunities to preach at this church.

Wow.

Yeah under the former pastor God allowed for that and the preaching

preach regeneration to put

people were Respond because they hadn't had that.

Because

I had grown up here many people loved me and I was you know being

supported By people and when I say support is not

financial people began to say well if you want to go to seminary.

We as a church want to support you.

So they did support me financially to go to seminary.

But they let me choose where I went.

Wow.

So I went to a local Baptist seminary called Jacksville Baptist Theological Seminary and I always joke I

said my seminary was more like a trade school because I went to school with guys who were 5060

years old it wasn't it wasn't like Southern seminary something like that.

It was a it was a local seminary where a lot of these guys have been a ministry for a while.

They were just looking to get a degree right looking to expand themselves.

It was great.

My experience was great.

But I was the youngest guy I was in my 20s.

Everybody else was much older than me and that was a good experience, too but through that God really

confirmed that my convictions were very Baptist and especially regarding

sin and the nature of man the nature of God and I never thought in a million years the church would hire me.

Because I was very clearly convicted as a Baptist

by God's grace and when he

retired the church caught by a hundred percent vote the church called me as the

pastor in.

2006 praise God.

Yes by God's grace.

I it was an amazing day.

My wife and I were very that God this place

because he had

confirmed it through that.

Just began to preach through the scriptures my first.

My first series was a verse -by -verse exposition of Luke and I would preach

that on Sunday morning and Wednesday nights,.

I would books of the Bible or whatever and it really.

Expositional preaching became the

books of the Bible since I've been the pastor here now 16 years.

And a couple Old Testament books, but it usually takes me a while to get through them.

I've been in Genesis now for three years.

So give you an idea.

We don't go too fast but.

But the expositional preaching of the word was what God used.

Because it was through that I was teaching Romans in Sunday school people began to hear words like

election and predestination that did create some consternation and some people did leave.

But the People who wanted the word and wanted to hear the word God kept them here

and we began to turn in a direction of being a sovereign grace church.

And that's why in 2011.

We changed our name to sovereign grace family church now.

How and when in your journey?

Did you come yourself? to discover and embrace these doctrines known as the doctrines of

sovereign grace.

That was a.

2004 I was

exposed to the teaching of men like John MacArthur and

Probably the one who was most influential.

Not a lot of people heard of this guy.

His name is Roy Hargrave.

He was the pastor of Riverbend Community Church in Ormond Beach, Florida.

Yeah, I actually know who he is.

He was he is such a one, you know, he passed away.

I.

Didn't know that.

Yeah, yeah, he passed away a while back.

But he is.

He was such a powerful preacher of the gospel and he was a Baptist, but he was a sovereign grace.

I got a series of CDs from him.

Five the five points of Calvinism.

Each one was on its own CD and I must have listened to those things.

I know you can't really wear out a CD, but I must have worn out the CD player listening to those sermons because they were so

Good and he really helped me.

And the other person probably outside of where Hargrave the person who probably did the most for me Was was James White

and as you know, James White has been to our church.

I consider him not only a mentor but a friend.

I love him to death and his book debating Calvinism with Dave Hunt Was was

put out by my seminary.

My seminary was anti Calvin.

Wow.

They gave us that book promoting anti Calvinism and I read it and I went the other way.

Did they read it?

Because Dave Hunt did not really make a compelling case at all for his opposition to the doctrines of

sovereign grace.

Of course, we know that Dave Hunt is a Calvinist now.

Yeah.

Because folks he's in heaven if you didn't understand that.

But yeah, that was it this week I received that book and that's how I learned about James White.

I started listening to the dividing line.

I heard about some guy on the radio named Chris Arndt and I

Met you and I still to this day remember when you met when you and I met the first time my gay.

You did you did the hearty hearty hearty Martin Luther

Thing.

I don't know if your audience knows what that is.

I did that at your church.

You didn't do it.

You did it for me.

Oh, okay I just remember you doing the voice

and it was so funny that night.

We were here putting out the books for Mike.

By the way that that song that parody I did of Martin Luther

Somebody called me a number of years ago or emailed me and Said

Chris, do you know that that song that you recorded is on?

YouTube and it was posted there by a Ukrainian and it turned out that this

Ukrainian I just interviewed him twice recently about What is happening in Ukraine?

He's still in Ukraine.

He's a seminary professor in Ukraine and He is the one that

discovered that song that I recorded and posted it on YouTube many years ago and

So it's just funny how the Lord in his Providence says had that song travel around the world.

But going back to the actual disciples of Christ congregation

it sounds like it was not nearly as committed to the leftist agenda

as many if not most congregations in that denomination

are.

Today, it's not I mean I could be wrong, but your description almost sounded like an evangelical light.

Description.

You have churches today that are by name Baptist and

Nondenominational and other things that are really

not committed to.

Boldly proclaim the truths of the gospel that are unpopular in our modern era and so you

you know.

You have a very watered -down Atmosphere.

Is that more what your congregation was before you took the helm as pastor by

God's grace?

Yes, in fact, I will this is the way I would describe it because of where we

were because of where we are.

I'll Bible belt kind of.

You know, Jacksonville is right on the bottom, you know.

You know, we're almost Georgia if you think about where we are as far as proximity, we're only a few miles from Georgia,

so.

The way that I describe our becoming reformed is our churches.

It was what what I would say was socially Conservative but theologically liberal.

They didn't even know it though.

They didn't even know logically and it took preaching the

doctrines of not even just the doctrines of sovereign grace.

But just plain Christian doctrine.

Like for instance.

We had a pastor in the 80s who didn't believe in the didn't believe in the virgin birth.

Wow.

Because and the church hired him and he came in and was preaching.

They didn't know that he didn't believe in the virgin birth come Christmas time.

He's preaching Jesus wasn't born of a virgin.

And everybody looked around like what are you talking about?

And what's what's funny is if that happened today that dude would get tackled and and carried out,

you know out of here.

We wouldn't let him continue to preach but it so your church is done for love and gentleness.

Well, you guard your pulpit.

The sacred desk is a very important thing to guard with.

Mighty force if necessary.

And.

He had come here back then that the pastor turned over much more Commonly than it does now

sort of like in the Methodist Church where you get a new pastor every two or three years.

Well for a while this church was that way every two or three years.

There was a new pastor.

But the pastor that preceded me was here for 13 years.

So he was here for a while.

And then I've been here 16 years.

So we've sort of gone past that but but when I was younger when I was a kid You know two or

three years and that pastor was in the 80s.

He didn't believe in the virgin birth and then later we had pastors who Affirmed

homosexuality not necessarily from the pulpit.

But at least from the sense of they wouldn't preach against it if somebody says well is this wrong?

They would him and ha they would they would you know, well, they're they're people and we love them like

Tim Keller.

Yes.

Yes, and so it was like I said, they the church was theologically

Liberal and didn't even really know it they had when I got ordained.

The church had a female elder named before I became the pastor and even my

ordination certificate.

I'm looking at it right now.

It's across the it's across the way my ordination certificate has a woman's name on it.

And I don't affirm I didn't affirm her at the time.

He asked me do you believe I should be here and I said no.

But but I was you know, I was in the process of being ordained and that was the structure of the church at the time so

there was a lot of the church that was theologically liberal but they didn't realize that because they and one of the things that I've heard many

times from Brother Jack Sunning who is one of our eldest members.

He's 86 years old.

He says he said Keith One of the things you did was you you taught us the Bible we've never had

that before nobody nobody taught the Bible.

It sounds like they were like likely every single liberal

mainline denomination.

Even when those churches were initially overcome and overtaken by liberalism

due to German higher criticism and other things they were still Conservative

especially in compared to today's moral ethic or lack thereof.

Like, you know back in the 50s and earlier you did not have an

open affirmation of homosexuality and abortion.

Even when the churches had turned to liberalism.

You that is something that's just a given today for the most part.

Yeah, but

theologically we have another anonymous

listener, I don't know why it all of our listeners are anonymous today.

But we have an anonymous listener who asks knowing of the connection That the disciples

of Christ has had historically to the restoration movement and Campbell ism was there a

remnant of restorationist and Campbellite views in the congregation such as

The requirement of immersion in water for the remission of sins and other such things that are

unique to the restoration movement.

That's a very good question and I can say this There was a small remnant of that here.

But it was it was less because as I said earlier, they were theologically liberal.

They were also somewhat theologically Untrained some of it.

I actually had to teach What it was so that I could teach against it.

I actually I remember saying, you know, historically this denomination has taught

That someone has to be immersed in Jesus name to be saved.

And that's how a person receives the remission of sin is through this and I remember some of them saying I don't

remember being taught That and I said well, it's possible that you weren't taught that because you haven't been taught theology

Good or bad.

You just haven't been taught.

So yes, there was a small remnant of a few people I give you a good example.

There was a young man who went to Johnson Bible College.

Johnson Bible College was I believe it's still connected to the restoration

movement and so a lot of their theology is in line with with that and He visited

with us before I became the pastor.

He visited with us while he was going to Bible College and the previous pastor and him really

took a liking to one another and started spending time together and He and I we became friends and we spent time together and

I remember I said to him one day I said my favorite Bible verse is Ephesians 2

8 For by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves is the gift of God not of works Lest

anyone should vote and he looked at me and he said well my favorite verse is Acts 2 38.

And I looked a little confused.

I said why he says repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and so his verse really

was tied to that doctrine of Being baptized for the remission of sin.

So there were people here who held to those doctrines, but they were few and far between.

Yeah, it's interesting that earlier on in that same book the book of Acts

You have Peter saying to the Jewish Christians

How can you forbid water baptism to those who have the same gift of the Spirit as we so in other words?

They had the Holy Spirit before they were baptized and he commanded them to be baptized

After they had already had the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Yeah, we had a lot of conversations about that that whole thing.

You know, what's funny is.

You're familiar with us.

I'm sure but the Duck Dynasty family the Phil Roberts and all those guys.

Those guys are part of that restoration movement.

And yeah, they're in the acapella wing of the Church of Christ.

Yes.

Yep, and we have had a few people.

Prior to our chain prior to our name change.

We've had a few people come along who have had that same.

Have had that same Theology.

I remember one day I preached justification by faith alone and we had visitor here and as he was

leaving.

He says you left out James 2 24, you know, you're not justified by you're justified by works and not by faith alone.

He's like sort of shouting at me that I left that out and I said no.

I didn't leave it out.

I I believe that that could be harmonized with everything that I said today.

But the point is I said, you know, why did you visit with us today?

And he goes well, you're a restoration church.

I said no, we're not even though the name is Forest Christian Church by that time.

We had already dropped the denomination.

We dropped the title disciples of Christ.

But that even the title Christian Church tied it to that and I remember getting back to the Duck Dynasty thing.

I remembered When Matt with those guys became super popular I said

People don't realize what they're teaching even even when Phil Robertson baptized you go online and watch when he

baptizes folks.

He says this you are going under the water sinner.

You're coming out safe you are this is for the remission of your sin and.

And like I said, it really is it it becomes in that sense of justification by works.

We're going to our final break right now.

It's going to be a lot more brief than the other breaks.

If you have a question for Keith Foskey, please send it immediately to Chris Arnsett at gmail .com.

Chris Arnsett at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least your city and state in your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous.

If the question involves a personal and private matter don't go away.

We'll be right back with Keith Foskey.

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I hope to see you there Keith Foskey.

One of the things that I wanted to say that I failed to in introducing you is one of your elders

Andrew Montoro as I used to call him and as most people call him Andy Montoro.

He was my precious late wife's or one of my precious late wife's pastors

At the First Baptist Church of Lindenhurst, Long Island, and it has always been a joy

to know Pastor Andy and his wife candy and have so many precious memories

of fellowship with them and my precious late wife.

And I just wanted to you need to send my greetings to pastor Andy.

Absolutely.

Yeah, I invited him to the James White conference.

Yeah.

Like I said three of us who he's a great guy.

In fact, I had a little bit of a intimidating experience with pastor Andy when I started dating.

Who would eventually be my wife Julie?

He had a sit -down with me, what are your intentions sir?

And well, and he I just have nothing with the highest regard for this brother,

but one thing that we want to Mention in regard to the

Restorationist connection to the disciples of Christ.

It's interesting how the more liberal that group came as with all liberal denominations that

may have begun believing in the requirement of baptism for salvation

whether believer baptism or infant.

That the whole issue of salvation becomes a moot point because nobody needs salvation the more liberal you become

in their minds anyway.

Teenager and again growing up in this church there were the

idea that You should believe in Jesus was not an urgent thing

and the idea of being baptized.

You needed to do this to be saved.

And I remember I remember in Sunday school just hearing, you know.

Well, you know sincere Mormons are fine since your Muslims are fine since your Hindus are fine

because all it really needs is sincerity not truth and.

And and those things were it was just it was just understood, you know.

They they really stand on this idea of this in essentials unity and non -essentials liberty and all things charity that

that of course comes from Augustin but and it's a true statement in essentials.

There should be unity and non -essentials.

There should be Liberty.

The problem is is in denominations that become liberal or are liberal all of the

essentials go away.

And everything becomes a non -essential that they define they redefine what essential means.

And they might include with that Essential the most essential thing is to be

Loving toward all people and they would redefine love because in their minds

love means being accepting of the sins.

Even the abominable sins of others to the point where you're not only accept them into membership, but you

ordain people who are notorious for these sins like homosexuality and

Transgenderism and all kinds of horrific things.

You just made a good point.

It's the last time our church meeting of the disciples of Christ.

I think if I remember correctly it was in 1999.

So that so even before I became the pastor there was there was you know.

There was an odd from the denomination because the

denomination itself had gone Really crazy before me went and he

brought back.

He'll have them in our in our church documents papers from a 1999

conference which were at that time talking about ordaining homosexuals and

affirming things like Racial reparation stuff like that stuff that is

now very common was being put within the disciples of Christ

Domination Denomination more than 22 years ago, and I have the record to that.

I showed dr. White when he was here.

I said look at what they were doing 20 years ago, and it's the stuff that's very very prominent now.

Now, why don't you give our listeners? some Valuable lessons that

they may learn especially if they're ministers on How to appropriately.

Through.

Obviously the power of the Holy Spirit and obedience to Christ and

his word and the proclamation of the gospel.

Transform a liberal congregation to a Bible -believing

congregation and maybe include in there some do's and don'ts in the few minutes that we have left.

We have about eight minutes left.

Okay, well that I have always

I did without two main things number one

I preached the Bible.

I didn't I didn't come in with an agenda saying I'm going to preach I'm going to preach

Calvinism or something like that.

I didn't do.

I just preached the word and the word is what is Primarily transformative if you're a pastor who wants

to transform a church preach the word, you know.

This is Paul's admonition to Timothy 1st Timothy or 2nd Timothy chapter 4, you know preach the

word and to do that.

That's our charge but the second thing is to promote an atmosphere of trust with your

people that what you are what you are the direction that you are going is

is is.

You are not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes.

You're not trying to fool anybody be up front and honest.

These are the concerns I have and these are the ditches the direction that I believe the church should go and They may

not follow they may kick you out.

I thought I'll tell you a quick story in 2008 I thought I was going to be removed for being a Calvinist

in 2008 there were people that only a small minority but there were small group of people in the church who started to

have private meetings in their homes because they wanted to remove me and I thought the best thing to do is just

resign because I don't want to be a I don't want to be a Stumbling block and I I made a decision to resign

and I still have my resignation letter.

I wrote a resignation letter and I called Tom Askin, and I don't know if your

listeners know who that is.

I know you do.

Oh, yeah, great man.

Yeah.

Yeah, he's great man.

Well, I called Tom at that point I had met him through the founders and I said Tom, I think I think that I'm gonna have to

resign.

I think the church wants me to leave and he said don't you dare resign?

He said you take a stand if they want you to leave you make them make you leave he said but if

Yeah, he said as long as God has you there you stand for what's right and you take the

hit and you keep moving forward.

He said if they're if you're gonna leave you make them make you leave and I and I I took that to heart.

I stood up in the pulpit the very next Sunday.

I said look I know I've been accused of being a Calvinist many of you don't know what that is.

But over the next few months, I want to help explain what that is and help you understand what why that's not a scary thing.

You know, I don't eat babies.

That was a Terrible thing to say but there was like there was like this whole Calvinist you like believe babies go to hell.

They you know, they're they're anti there it was a crazy myth that was going around the church that I was like

wicked because I was a Calvinist and.

And and I know that sounds weird, but yeah, you're wicked for a lot of other reasons.

Oh.

Allowed me it

was a lot had to do with trust because what I did was I began to go to people's homes who I knew.

Had an issue with me.

So I knew had an issue with what I was preaching and I began to sit down with him and hold the Word of God Open and and

and say.

What does this say?

Am I saying something that this doesn't say did any of your enemies become true believers?

In the midst of all this I mean

I could I could name a few.

I won't name anybody by name, but there were there were.

I remember one specific man.

Who I wouldn't say was ever my enemy.

But he certainly was he was questioning what was happening and I sat across from him with my Bible open and

I would read to him.

And I would turn my Bible around I push it across and I would say now read that he'd read it and I said doesn't.

That say what I just said and he said yes it does and I said so what are you going to do?

Are you going to listen to these people who are trying to and

he by God's grace he to

this day?

But there were a few people who left the lady who was an elder at the time by that time.

She was not an elder anymore by 2008 or so and she didn't like me for a lot of reasons.

She didn't like to hear about sin.

She told me specifically I don't need to be told I'm a sinner every week and I said no you really do.

Like we all.

We we all need to we all need to be reminded that Christ died for sinners and we are

sinners and.

And so yeah, there was a lot of there was a lot of that and there were some.

There were some enemies who who turned there were some people who who left and by God's grace.

There was a little bit of a culling of the herd, you know at one point, but I wouldn't call it a church split.

We only had about three families that decided to go elsewhere because of because of the the

cabinet a major.

And.

Would you describe this really in initially when it when a man of God believes?

He is called to bring the majority of an established congregation To

repentance and faith in Christ.

It's really not a church.

He is pastoring.

He is on a mission field.

When you say that that would be accurate.

There was there were there were many conversations that my wife and I had

about that very thing.

Are we pastoring a group of people that many of them are not saved?

And I will say I have done a lot of baptisms of people who had been previously baptized but came to the

realization that they were not saved and I took them through the gospel and helped them understand their salvation and

now People call it re -baptism.

But yeah, I mean by the way, you might find it interesting that years

ago in the 90s.

Mike Gadosh Hosted a program that I created called the voice of Sovereign

Grace.

Mike Gadosh hosted it With four other theologically reformed pastors who took turns every night

Monday through Friday to have their sermon aired.

And when he preached against the ordination of women a woman elder

Called me because I used to man the phones for that and a woman elder called me who was a

Presbyterian elder in the PC USA and I believe it was Malvern, New York, Nassau County.

She said not only must I step down from the eldership after hearing that message.

I'm so convicted I have to find a new church because I don't want to be a member of a church that permits Eldership,

I wish that I could remember that woman's contact information because I'd love to hear where she wound up.

But Keith that's been such a joy having you on the program.

I want to make sure that our listeners have your contact information again.

As I was mentioning earlier It is sgfcjaxx

.org SG for Sovereign Grace FC for Family Church.

Jax J a X abbreviation for Jacksonville org

Sgfcjaxx .org Keith Foskey.

I look forward to your return to iron sharpens iron.

And I want everybody to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far far greater Savior

Than you are a sinner.