April 1, 2020 Show with Dave Corson on “Voluntary vs. Mandatory Restrictions on Public Gatherings (& Reflections Upon Hebrews 10:25)”

Introduction to Iron Sharpens Iron and Proverbs 27:17

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It's iron sharpens iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron. So one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. And now here's your host Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon.

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at iron Sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all Happy April Fool's Day on this first day of April 2020.

And although this is April Fool's Day We are going to be discussing a serious matter. Although however, it will certainly contain some laughter and humor in it because my friend Dave Corson That I've known for many years has a Incredibly good sense of humor and he and I have had some of the loudest and longest laughs that I've ever experienced together.

He is believe it or not after that saying that he's an administrative law judge and an ordained minister. And today we are going to address voluntary versus mandatory restrictions on public gatherings and Reflections on Hebrews chapter 10 verse 25 and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back after years of absence from iron sharpens iron radio Dave Corson.

How's it go there Chris? I'm as I'm sorry. What'd you say? How's it going there Chris? Could you hear me? Okay. Oh, yeah.

I hear you fine.

I'm surprised you didn't change your introduction though. A show of theologians pastors and then people like Corson.

Now I think the last time you were on my show you were on The pastors roundtable perhaps on the oh, yeah on the old iron sharpens iron program when it was broadcasting out of WNYG and.

WGBB beautiful downtown, Babylon, right? That's right. Sure. That's right. Yeah, Babylon. Oh the Carlisle. Yeah, so you're moving up in the world.

Well, I don't know if the Babylonian listeners would agree with that. But I.

Do love Carlisle on happier audience. I'm sorry. I.

Do love Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It is my new home and and I am Adjusting very well here. And before we go into your a little bit of a description on your work as an administrative law judge in New York City.

You are a former stand-up comic and I'd like for you to share with our listeners some of that background and I know that you were actually also a part of a Comedic TV broadcast so if you could share with our listeners more about that.

Yes, I actually when he said that he was he was saying he had this saying, you know. The advent of broadcast television everyone's going to be famous for for 15 minutes. I think Andy Warhol will be rolling over to social media and YouTube.

Everyone now is famous and famous for a lot longer now. Well, I think that's the least of Andy Warhol's.

But yeah, I did have 15 minutes of fame or not really quite we traveled around the country. We appeared in colleges clubs and this is at the the the peak of entertainment history. Of course and then so clubs are trying to figure out what do we do now to keep keep the businesses going?

So all of a sudden everybody had a comedy club. Just go turn to the comedy club. My friend John Truton and I we actually met in college. We've done shows together college. We started traveling around and yeah, we actually got invited to appear on a show called comedy tonight, which was on.

This is just when the Fox Network.

Yeah, and they were trying to do a competition or yeah, this was Saturday night live.

Exactly. And so my partner and I we appeared on comedy tonight at the pleasure of actually.

I'm glad it was before he passed.

Wake up.

And then you also became an ordained minister.

That's it. And I can look back at all those points in my life and those quote-unquote career changes and so it's all the hand of God Transforming my heart my will over him. I came to know the Lord at a very young age.

It was one of the things that I remember pastor was preaching You know from Hebrews and talking about Moses Hebrews 11 there and saying, you know Moses after God and he. I don't remember any Of his other sermons, but I remember I'm talking about thing there.

So the gospel for good Bible teacher and I don't regret but gracious and loving and well.

I am glad to know you as a friend and I am glad to know you as a brother in Christ and also Glad to have as a friend your dear lovely wife Jill. As a friend and as a sister in Christ and in fact I can say Without exaggeration one of my favorite memories of all time of mine of my entire life Was when I was making a very good income For WMC a radio Salem media and I treated you Jill Dan and Cindy, but if you go another yeah, too.

A.

Broadway show the producers the producers and also to a really phenomenal Russian restaurant in Manhattan called Firebird. It was my wife my late wife Julie's favorite restaurant and so she and I joined you and Jill and Dan and Cindy in Manhattan that evening and what a precious Memory that is and I in fact, it was the first time that I saw the intensity of your explosive laughter to the extent that I witnessed it at the producers and and You are you are cracking up at that that plate especially certain parts of it and it was funny because I Would also laugh and I am I am known for a loud laugh and my wife is Jabbing me in the ribs with her elbow trying to get me to Laugh more quietly and I'm like, are you kidding me?

This is a comedy play what are you asking me to stop laughing for and I'm like look at him and I remember pointing at you and You were you were ready to have a coronary arrest. You were laughing so hard, I think.

But what a great memory. So tell us Exactly what it is that an administrative law judge does. What are your responsibilities?

It's an administrative law judge overseas cases involving administrative law. What are those cases. A brief civics lesson when Congress or state legislator when they? establish laws and establish government agencies.

Though you give those government agencies once again rule give them the how should I say rules and regulations? That's administrative law. These are the rules and the regulations established by administrative agencies.

Established by our Congress's and our legislators is hey, we have all these social issues. Let's start a new government agency and have that government agency address that problem and then as a practical matter.

You know, it's one thing to have these policies. It's one thing to have all these legislations. But then now you actually put it into effect. Well, then you do need certain rate of agencies. Then that would then come up with rules and regulations and then once again every time you have a law.

You need someone to interpret those laws and so that's what an administrative law judge tools and regulations can handle. And the well, I'm glad to have you on because perhaps.

You can help separate Fact from fiction when it comes to some of the things Involving restrictions on public gatherings the thing that has been very confusing about this whole thing Is that the way that the media and politicians Say things including our president can be either confusing or fuzzy or even misleading because when they make statements You don't know if this is a strong suggestion or is it a law-binding Illegally binding Mandatory restriction that's being placed upon us.

And in fact, I had a friend Just moments before the show started When I told him I was doing some errands and he goes, oh, didn't you hear that? Pennsylvania's on lockdown as of last night at 8 o 'clock.

We're on lockdown. And I said, what does that exactly mean? There are. I'm doing the same thing. I did last week I am going to stores that are open to to get errands and run errands and and get food and beverages and I you know the Mailman came today and I got coffee today from A takeout place.

I mean, what do you mean? We're on lockdown. I mean that kind of thing. He had like this panic in his voice and he's not leaving the house because we're on lockdown.

So.

We're gonna get to some of the specifics about those kinds of things but The catalyst to have you having you on the program today? It involves To a degree or put to a large degree Hebrews chapter 10 verse 25 and That is a classic Passage from the scriptures that most of us are very familiar with it says that We are not To be giving up meeting together as some are in the habit of doing but encouraging one another and all the more as you see the day approaching.

And of course that my actual Favorite translation is the New American Standard Bible and I'm gonna look that up in that In that version because that one that I read is from the NIV and I'm not particularly fond of the NIV.

And while I'm looking that up folks our email address if you'd like to join us on the air It's Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Chris Arnson at gmail .com. And please as always give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside of the USA and In the NASB not forsaking our own assembling together as it is the habit of some.

But encouraging one another and all the more as you see the day drawing near. What was it that you were? Advising recommending and this is while you were wearing primarily Your minister cap your order Ordained minister cap.

All right. What were you advising that caused a bit of controversy even among? Some of your very close dear longtime friends and Brethren in Christ even of the same theological persuasion.

Can I pray first before I answer address some of these things answer you and address you said you sound like you're getting ready for.

An execution or something. But by the way, feel free folks to To send in questions, even if you disagree with Dave because he's used to being heckled being a former comedian.

More so from being a lawyer.

Well, that'll be. You used to being hated rather than everyone loves. Quoting Henry the sixth to me.

First thing we do is let's kill all the lawyers.

I.

Always pray before the show when we're off the air, but go ahead pray.

The reason I want to is because as one dear brother is even related to me. These are difficult times the difficult decisions and I think this is at the heart having the gracious father God your name is to be exalted above all their God your grace.

You'd be gracious and about not only spreading sanctifying work in their lives facing your mercy Lord. Please give me your God to search me out and in my heart on my way and or may I be Receptive once again, I lift up brother here today.

What's important here today is not who's right or wrong. What's it means that takes place will be the interior will help us to know your will and I was to carry out your will. We're God we ask these things not because anything we've done or deserved or will amen.

Well.

As we were saying you sent out an email and Many of your friends very close friends even fellow brethren from the same church were responding and there was some reasonably mild interaction with disagreement.

And it also shows you that The body of Christ when it comes to very important things that have global magnitude to them.

And.

Very often we disagree with each other even if we're in the same even if we're in the same theological camp, right?

Exactly. So what I've been what I've been trying to communicate in my email to Mike small circle of influence, whatever that may be. Once again, we've Hardly attempt for these correspondence and I've already sought the forgiven lovingly and correct wiser from the correspondence primarily to elders.

You know, but so not to call once again to because I don't know who's in draw. Not me calling anyone out or have to make for your and also to I want a strong They have your soul. You need to follow after them.

Of course it is not my intention to create and coming from is basically this and by the way to it was not at the Statement or because what I was hearing from so many. Too many of them what I found we first and foremost Loving God.

Chris, if I could just read from a news article because once again, this issue is becoming more pressing. And I want to be very careful by the name of Edmund Brown County and near Asian of a local Quote and I want to be very clear here.

This is what the news journalist is Andrew Warren Howard Brown is the I'd remind the good pastor of Mark 12. There's no more important commandment than to love my neighbor as I felt he said Loving your neighbors is jeopardizing their health by loving your neighbors protecting them not jeopardizing their health.

But concern to me is once again, is that the attitude of the church as well? Because that verse of the scripture of Mark chapter regarding this particular matter the full car. Let me read it for you starting at verse 29.

Jesus answered them saying the first of all the command. The first of all the commandments is hero Israel the Lord our God the Lord is one context of the first commandment the greatest commandment of loving the Lord our God with all our heart soul mind and strength to the similar event and When the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees they gathered together then one of them a lawyer Him saying teacher what is but to the governing authorities over us?

But first and foremost with the love the Lord our God with all of us has become problematic now all these other national leaders. You know, I'm not saying they haven't considered it, but it's not in there to do.

I'm not looking I'm not more experience. But no, I am raising the conscience. This is all about our life is about God. Loving our neighbors. Amen. I do agree with that and of course.

Obeying God is a part of giving him praise honor and glory and Obeying him often involves how we do treat our neighbors and so right. Yeah, obviously. Obviously that is included in the Decalogue. How we treat our neighbors and so.

The thing that is clear to me though that although I. And many people if not most With whom I agree especially on The specific text I read earlier from Hebrews chapter 10. In fact, let us let me read More of the context of that.

I'm gonna go back to Verse 23. Let us hold fast to the confession of our hope without wavering. For he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds.

Not forsaking our own assembling together as it is the habit of some. But encouraging one another and all the more as you see the day drawing near now the consensus that I've heard from the people.

I.

Highly revere and know very well. Not not to say that I don't highly revere you or know you very well. But I'm saying most of most of the pastors that I know and theologians would say. That if the elders that God has ordained over a church Consider it best for not only the safety of the congregation but the of the surrounding community.

That they would for a time a season suspend public gatherings. That the individuals in the congregation Obeying that and submitting to that are not in sin. Because they are following what they believe to be the wise judgment of their elders.

And they are submitting to their elders as the the Bible's the Bible commands now. Obviously, we're not to submit to our elders if they're telling us the sin.

But no, right, but I wouldn't take that position either. That's I'm saying I'm not calling these elders sinful in any way. Right, and I recognize there can be rarely remember from my. And we're going to go to our first break right now.

If you have a question for Dave Corson, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris AR n Z n at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least your city and state in your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's say you disagree with your own pastor over this issue or you disagree With your congregation.

Or perhaps you're even a pastor and you disagree with your fellow elders the majority of your congregation your denomination things like that would definitely lend themselves to want to. Wanting to remain anonymous, but if it's a general question Please give us at least your first name your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Don't go away. We'll be right back with Dave Corson and more on this vital issue. I'm sharpens iron radio depends upon the financial support of fine Christian organizations to remain on the air. Like the Historical Bible Society the Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books manuscripts and Bibles of historical significance.

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Forward slash podcast. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnson if you just tuned us in today. Our guest for the full two hours is a dear friend of mine for many years. Going back decades actually. David Corson.

Dave is an administrative law judge and ordained minister and we are addressing voluntary versus mandatory restrictions on public gatherings and Reflections upon Hebrews chapter 10 verse 25. Our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com. And Before I go any further with my own questions I do have some listener questions that I will begin the show with here. We have Michael in Princeton, New Jersey. Who says He has.

First of all, he has a quote from George Burns. Since you mentioned George Burns earlier. If I had known I was going to live this long. I would have taken better care of myself.

Well.

Michael says hello Dave. As both a judge of the law and a minister. How would you respond to a pastor? Who not only refuses to tell his congregation to refrain from meeting when the government has a call for a quarantine?

But also attacks other pastors through various media Accusing them of bowing to authority when they should be standing firm for what they see as a biblical principle. Please address from both points of view legal and biblical.

I have already seen dr. John MacArthur Accused of this. I imagine there are others. I Guess he what he means is accused of yeah of bowing down To Caesar or something not the the where he's calling right other pastors being.

Wimps.

That second part first now, I think that we don't know all their circumstances and we don't know what God. No. We should not. I think we do need to distinguish the issue. That distinction is clearly there in the scripture and no, I'm of the firm belief Caesar has the right To shut down.

This is of maintaining. Thank you. We have to understand government from a big, you know. Any sort of just come out and say it we should you know I think Christians have tried to equate them is not the equivalent.

Communism is not the equation for most Christ. Oh, but he rules and righteousness. Man's philosophies fall far short. That's where we always have to start the authority. Why. Because they're the authority God place over us and up.

We're rejecting the orchestra totalitarian, you know. No good and it's for the restraint of evil to compartmental and once again, but that's God and his grace. In the midst of a totalitarian state. It was not a democracy then when Arcadian, you know took power after his uncle had been assassinated and he became the first Emperor.

Oh, no, he took over the Roman Empire. Everyone had to listen to him. Paul and Peter are writing these things back even earlier when Christ was speaking. It's in the context of a totalitarian state. But by a going war and once again are the authorities over us within the context of them being appointed by God to Maintain, but you enter into God's what and these men are in place again.

If these rulers are going contrary then no, then we have to obey God before we obey man now.

Let me let me get let me get some clarification just so our listeners Get more of an idea where you're coming from. Do you believe that the church. Barring some thing like a a fire or a so-called natural catastrophe.

Or something as serious as the black plague something that as far was far more deadly than what we were witnessing. Are you saying that barring something like that? The church In order to truly be obedient to God must gather on the Lord's Day.

Or are you just saying that it shouldn't be a prolonged a prohibition from public gathering.

Good question. And once again, that's that's your church gets blown down by a tornado to that particular location and worship God. Even in your home. I do it. They're saying it during the corona virus.

Or are we really is it is it deadly and serious enough where we would have to prohibit our fellow congregants from.

Gathering some individuals it may be even the churches. I know that it's still they've actually counsel and advised those who are Clearly vulnerable and don't want to unness in the context of where the church was being.

They can't necessarily thing came up in the question temporal and so we can make these. Yes, even even somebody about a date of April 30th, by the way I think that's the new date now by President Trump, right?

Are you going to some other states? It's not about the date and even somebody even somebody that we both know.

Dr. James R. White of alpha to make a ministries who is very sober-minded and level-headed and balanced when it comes to this area and he's not known to be a conspiracy theorist. But he but he is either he has rightly said that we are already seeing hints Coming from the mouths of politicians.

That they would like nothing more than to flex their muscles and Shut down houses of worship and I'm sure in some of their minds permanently. And in fact, it was interesting. How dr. White mentioned when?

The threat of longer Prohibitions for public worship gatherings Was made by one politician in particular. He never mentioned mosques. He only mentioned churches and synagogues. Right, but but anyway, we have to go to our midway break right now and By the way, I will get to your question momentarily.

Lou in Seville, Long Island. In fact, let me read Lou's question before we go to the midway break and you could answer it when we return. Lou in Seville, Long Island, New York says hello, Dave and Chris.

I'm not a pastor or elder of a church and I realize this is not an easy decision for them to make. There are some These are somewhat press it unprecedented times and Pastors and elders need our support and submission and respect but a question would be Why do you think churches are not endeavoring to have more smaller? services keeping social distance still and Taking all precautions for instance the Church of 300 Let's say could possibly have four services two on Sunday two on Saturday.

Well, obviously there would be a difference of opinion on the Sabbath there. And so 75 congregants could come to each service. Probably many congregants will not come anyway, and the church will self-limit and people there are or People there that are elderly or compromised would be encouraged to stay at home.

He has a second question that we'll get to when we return. So if anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

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