HEATED Debate: Liberal Teachers vs. Christian Parents | Pastor Reacts

SATs.

One of the biggest things I think when it comes to homeschool is keeping my kids away from your baggage. Who should decide.

What's being taught. One side is labeled as a bigot white supremacist homophobic when you're being taught that oh this.

There's you know, this many genders or anything like this where you haven't been exposed on your own household. It's being presented as like the end-all be-all when it actually isn't it's about educating and not indoctrinating.

So child says I thought boys could not wear makeup. I have an X &Y chromosome and I'm wearing makeup. I could factually answer that without indoctrinating with any opinion.

We have to make sure that we're respecting parents and their beliefs and their values that includes not.

Perpetuating parents beliefs in the classroom as well. The discussion centers around what is education? What is the purpose of education? How should Christians think through that? Homeschool versus public school or private school.

Here's the deal before I jumped into this ministry before I was a pastor I was a public high school teacher. So let's have a very important discussion. Welcome back to wise disciple. My name is Nate Zala and I'm helping you become the effective Christian that you were meant to be.

I'm a speaker currently and I was a pastor for a number of years. But before all of that, I was a public high school teacher. I taught at Clark County in Las Vegas, Nevada. If you are a parent if you're an educator your student yourself.

Then this video is for you. Got a heated debate between Christian parents and liberal perhaps woke even. Teachers why are we doing this today. Nate great question. Thanks for asking. A lot of us Christians are trying to think through the question of education.

Where should students go to get education? What kind of education is appropriate for students and a lot of parents both Christian and non-christian are answering the question with homeschool. But how did we get here?

Is there a breakdown of trust between parents and public educators and where does this breakdown of trust come from? That's what I would like to talk about in this video, so let's look at a vice debate between.

Again, Christian parents and liberal maybe progressive woke teachers. We'll find out on what the purpose of education is. Who has the right to say what students learn. Should parents not have a say at all in that they also disagree about what's better public private or homeschool.

So we're gonna get into it by the way real quick. Make sure to check out the wise disciples store where you can get a shirt like this. This is part of our peace series up at the store. God is bringing Shalom back to the world one soul at a time and we can participate in that.

Amen a Lot of great stuff at the store. I hope you check it out. All right without further ado. Let's jump right in here.

Let's just start really broadly. What's the purpose of education?

I think the purpose of education is twofold one to help build and support the individual but also help build and support society as a whole because Even though you may not have a kid in education You pay taxes to a public school because we as a society depend on and need Education for society to work.

I think the purpose of education is to.

So I understand these kinds of videos are Heavily edited and so there may have been more that this educator said, but this answer is I don't know pretty vague. I Don't even know what she means, you know, she could be saying lots of different things here, you know to to build and support individuals and societies.

Okay, how? To what end right. I mean if this were some kind of teacher objective written on the whiteboard inside a classroom, there would be no way to measure that. Uh now I have my answer to this question.

Maybe you have your answer, but let's hear some of the other answers.

First educate and not indoctrinate and I think that in a lot of ways We've strayed from that in the original purpose of what it's supposed to be. I think it should be intelligence and character. I think you should.

Be able to understand the world around you and understand who you are and your purpose. And try to make the world a better place. I think that it has to be a mix of the skills, you know. Memorizing the formulas, you know understanding the world around you but then also what to do with it and just.

So I agree with this answer. And it's pretty close to my answer you know, uh, the purpose of education is to develop the skill sets of the next generation so that they can use those skill sets to become productive members of society.

And to develop their character so they know how best to use those skill sets in order to bless or or flourish. Uh the society that we live in there's a beautiful line in jeremiah 29 7 uh. As a matter of fact, take a look at this jeremiah 29 verse 7 says.

But seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile. And pray to the lord on its behalf for in its welfare. You will find your welfare in the city's welfare. God's people will find their welfare.

And this fits into the grander picture of what god is doing in the world. Which again is bringing shalom back to the world. Shalom means peace. And so we as christians right as christ's shalom makers or peacemakers jesus said something to say about that in the gospels.

We should be transforming the whole world into the garden. Uh the garden that we find in the beginning of genesis and we should be training our children to have that same mindset through Whatever particular trade or skill set they develop.

I mean, there's a lot more to say about this biblically. Um, so let me give you a couple more things to think about right proverbs 16 16 says that wisdom is better than fine gold. Right to get understanding.

It's better than choice silver and the word there in the hebrew for wisdom. It can also refer to technical training, you know technical skills. That's why in ephesians 6 4. Well, look at this ephesians.

Look at this ephesians 6 4 fathers. Hello. It fathers do not provoke your children to anger. But here it is bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the lord. So ephesians 6 tells fathers bring your children up right again paying close attention to the language here.

Uh, the the original language the word for discipline. Is paideia, which is the greek word for education? And so the bible places the responsibility of education on the father on the parents and so. Education, however, that looks for different families, right?

Especially right now in today's culture. It must be aligned with god's desires for our children. The greeks understood this to a degree as well. They knew as do christians that paideia. It's not just technical training for a job.

It's also the formation of the mind in keeping with a good and moral character. So that's why I say we should be thinking about the same things when it comes to education development of skill. Yes, but also development of a student's character.

To go off that the idea that education you have to balance the importance of memorizing the quadratic formula while simultaneously addressing social and political issues respectively. So children have both the know-how general knowledge and also kind of self-awareness and character.

So they're able to develop their own opinions. Yeah, I think that's the purpose of uh.

Yeah, i'm going to disagree i'm going to disagree with that and i'll probably circle back around to this but you know. While children should be encouraged in later years like in adolescent years to develop their own opinions about certain things the idea that all of education Is just creating an environment for children to you know, they just make up their own minds about everything.

That's a recipe for disaster and that's you know I don't know what this person is suggesting here, but we're at the beginning of the video here. But i'm just i'm trying to create some helpful distinctions as we go along.

So in other words, there's no way freshmen in high school are going to have the requisite base knowledge of ethics. To start determining what is the best course of action with regard to moral dilemmas.

Whether they wrestle with these like in reading literature or studying history or even ethics. They first need to be taught foundational principles. So they can go back to that well and they can draw from that well in order to think for themselves later.

And when they're being directly taught foundational principles that should not be open to debate. So in case you were wondering yes, i'm more of a classical style educator education is to understand.

The world that you exist in and use that understanding as a means for Creating change or even understanding yourself on a deeper level. Um.

Uh. Activist, we have an activist in the room, right? Did you hear the activism in that in that definition? All right, be quiet nate.

I believe the purpose is simply just to prepare the individual to be successful in the society that they exist in critical thinking.

Uh learn how to live out your full potential so you can be independent and everything else really flows from there.

The purpose of education is to prepare children for the real life and also make sure that they are literate.

So I think the purpose is to raise the next generation of leaders. And when you think about what you want your leaders to be like you want them to be knowledgeable. And you want them to be compassionate.

You want them to be self-aware. You want them to understand the best way to move forward not just for themselves personally, but for their whole community. When we.

So that's the whole room so we heard from the whole room. And I want you to notice the majority of the folks in this room. Articulated the purpose of education without talking about shaping character at all.

Did you notice that? A couple of people did one that I can remember particularly but the rest did not. And so that raises an interesting question. Uh, because I would say that this is where a lot of the clash lies.

Right, and maybe you've not really wrestled with this yourself all that much. But here's the question is shaping a student's character one of the fundamental purposes of education. Some of you at this point are probably thinking of you know public education.

I'm not talking about public education or private or homeschool right at this moment. I'm just talking about education overall. Does education entail shaping a student's character? Actually, let me know in the comments right now.

Whatever you think i'll circle back around this is live so i'll circle back around and see if I can get your answers. What do you think. Because my answer is yes, it absolutely does. As a matter of fact, there is no classroom teacher That does not already say and do things to shape his or her students.

Character education is already happening. It's just a given talk about who's doing the educating who should decide.

What's being taught parents?

I.

Think that parents should have a huge say in what's going on in the classroom because it's their kids not ours. As a public school teacher 15 years. I have always I was always aware that these are not my children.

We have to make sure that we're respecting parents and their beliefs and their values. I think the constitution agrees with that.

Yeah here in america ranging back to the early 1900s. Plenty of supreme court cases have ruled in that favor that it is the parents right ultimately to decide a child's education.

Medical needs etc. I would push back though and say that there does need to be collaboration, right? I completely respect your idea of it is not our job as educators. To put forth a belief in front of children, right?

That includes not perpetuating parents beliefs in the classroom as well in my opinion. That would be keeping a non-biased viewpoint simply presenting issues and then allowing kids to decide for themselves.

I would.

That is absolutely ridiculous. Okay. Notice the way this person is talking about it. We should collaborate with parents guys but then what that really amounts to is Determining which beliefs and values that should be taught in alignment with parents and then which ones to reject.

Right, but then again the question is still the same who gets to say which to teach and which to reject. According to this person the answer is well the teacher in the classroom gets to say But wait a sec does the teacher have beliefs and values.

Doesn't the teacher determine which of the parents values to reject based on the teacher's own values? So this isn't a non-biased enterprise at all. There is no one who is Unbiased you assume biases going into this discussion.

But you should never believe that the classroom is an unbiased environment. That is that is hot cajun garbage fire. That's just that's just not true. And the teacher is Biased that's the thing, you know, of course they're biased if they're breathing thinking person and they have a heartbeat.

They have a set of values because guess what everyone does.

Agree that I think it needs to be a collaborative effort. The way that we decide curriculum in texas is that work groups comprised of community members educators parents. Even in some cases students and public service officials come together to draft curriculum plans and then it's ultimately decided on.

By our state board of education, which has a lot of kind of assistance from parents as well. So I think that that that kind of format can be really effective because it also empowers Students to become involved in the fate of their education as a student myself.

I think that that's incredibly important because our perspectives need to be heard as well.

The voices of parents need to be heard in that equation. But unfortunately what we've seen recently is that parents' voices have been demonized in this process. You've seen parents who've criticized local school boards labeled terrorists.

Simply for caring about the quality of the of their education that their child is receiving. These teachers are temporary caretakers when they come back home. It's the parent who has to explain that this is this radical belief that was put in front of you.

This was this idea that you've never been raised around that that parent now has to explain. And at the end of the day that isn't just confined to a classroom. Now what's bleeding into their upbringing and there's only one person responsible for their upbringing and it's the parents.

It's not the educators not the teacher. It's their parents.

The reason why I wanted to look at this discussion with you Is because I think that this vice debate is a wonderful microcosm. Of a huge disagreement going on around the country right now and this disagreement.

It seems like it's just getting amped up every year. And if you're a parent or an educator or even a student you're probably aware of this disagreement. Or you're at least sensing the tension between you know, say parents and educators specifically.

If I can characterize this tension in a helpful way, which is really why I just wanted to do this video I just want to put words to this. Okay. It's largely not because of academics. It's because of values.

In other words the educators of today many of them do not share the values of parents today, particularly christians. And that's primarily where the clash exists. Okay, so again putting words to this right to to what maybe many of you are sensing.

But just have not been able to articulate and so. Again, this raises an interesting question. If the purpose of education is to equip students with skills in order to become productive members of society.

And to develop and shape their character in order to use those skills. Well. Then what happens when the educators no longer share the same values as the parents? This was not even a discussion several decades ago.

Because even though many people several decades ago were not christian. They at least shared the same basic values as Christians as parents today. But that is increasingly shifting as each year goes by and that means.

This is the six million dollar question that everyone should be wrestling with. What should we do when more and more educators and administrators no longer share our values?

I like the idea of the collaboration and obviously parents voices belong at that table. I also like the emphasis on students having a say in this and also other people that adults that aren't parents.

I'm invested in that too. Even though I don't have children of my own. And I hear what you're saying about having to like parents needing to confront or address. I guess like what kids are learning at school.

But giving kids the exposure to other ideas or other things that they wouldn't be exposed to. Otherwise is I think part of what's going to help raise the next generation of people that are able to look outside their own.

Lived experience, but I think the language that is being used right now in this discussion is entirely unhelpful. To draw a proper clash, right? So if you've seen some of my debate videos, this is what I mean.

Clash clash is when you get two interlocutors together and they wrestle with issues. That's that's what you're looking for in a good debate is clash. Right, so i'm just putting on my debate teachers had for a moment.

In order to do that, you have to define terms. So what does this person who just spoke this teacher? What do they mean by ideas? What what do some of these folks mean by collaborate? Right. I I want parents voices at the table.

What does that mean? Do you want their voices but not their values? Is that what that means? That actually would be a really good question to ask. That's the question that I would ask if I were on the panel.

These kinds of clarification and diagnostic questions need to be asked if we're going to have a proper disagreement on this issue. And again, it comes back to values, right? So you're going to maybe get tired of me hitting this same guitar note, but it's about values.

Some of you are probably thinking to yourself. Oh. This person doesn't have parents. Therefore. They don't have a right to say no. It doesn't matter that they don't have children or yeah, they that's right.

They these this person doesn't have children. So they don't have a right to say it doesn't matter that you know, they have kids or they don't have kids. What matters is do their values align with ours?

That's it. Somebody who has no children can still Share our values guys. That's right. Notice too that that final sort of you know ending to that to that sentence there, right? Uh, they said let's help people.

Uh look outside their own lived experience. Okay, that usually is a code phrase for post-modern progressivist views of truth. Do you remember this. I talked about this in the unbelievable debate between calvin robinson and dr. Espinoza.

Did you see that one? You can go take a look at it. It's in uh, pastor reacts there in the playlist. Truth according to progressive folks is a social construct. It's not an objective fact that is discovered and people's lived experiences.

There's the code phrase. They they help to construct that truth. Okay, that's why somebody's lived experience is incredibly important to progressivists, right? Let's let's bring this and put it on the table, too.

Now do any of these people know that on the panel here? I'm fairly certain, you know, this particular teacher does who used the phrase, but does anybody else? Maybe not. That's why it's important to find definitions of terms in these discussions.

So you can get at the heart of the issue and you can truly clash or else.

This conversation will not be as productive as it could be. I think that oftentimes those different ideas are presented. In the classroom as a student as the only idea when you're being taught that oh this there's you know This many genders or anything like this where you haven't been exposed to that in your own household.

It's being presented as like the end-all be-all when it actually isn't it's about educating and not indoctrinating. As long as it's that is presented as a counterpoint to well, there's people who believe this but there's also people who believe this.

That's okay. The reality of it is is that in most classrooms across the country that isn't what's happening.

And to piggyback off of that one side is labeled as a bigot white supremacist homophobic. There's a lot of parents in america that are christian or you know, they they believe in two genders gender binary and.

If you say that as a teacher, especially you could be labeled as homophobic. So there isn't this unbiased classroom because there's one side that can't really be uh, you know as Loud as the other side without risk of you know, losing our jobs even.

But you two are kind of the ones that brought in.

The conflict of like there is an indoctrination going on and only one side It has this opinion and this side is not allowed to talk and we have to be quiet. And really you guys are actually the loudest in regards to this issue thus far right now.

Yes I wouldn't necessarily say that that's the quiet. What I would say though is like I I do want to push away if possible. And I'd love for you to hear this right is that idea of someone sees me and they go.

Oh, you're one of those that teach that there's 72 different types of gender. Desmond fambrini. He him gender fluid bisexual. My students do not know this because it doesn't come out because i'm a learning specialist and it's my job to educate and teach a curriculum.

Right now if i'm asked directly by a parent or if there's confusion. Oh, why do you wear makeup? Same reason why girls do because it's fun for me. It doesn't need to be this very controversial. I'm going to mess with this child's upbringing.

They're going to go home and they're going to turn into a gender fluid.

They're going to think there's 72 genders. I think that's a question. What the.

What. So let me get this straight this teacher desmond says. His students don't know that he's lgbt. Because they don't talk about it, I guess. But wait a sec. Parents go to him and ask why he is a biological male wearing makeup.

Where do the parents get the idea to ask this question? Do you think it's because their child came home with the same question? Come on. That's that's that's utterly ridiculous. My students don't know that i'm lgbt unless they like actually look at me with their eyes and see my face right, like does.

Does anyone actually believe that the students have no idea what's going on with this person with desmond? I I look I bring this up simply to point this out. There is no such thing as an unbiased classroom or an unbiased teacher.

This is literally desmond is literally the same person who claimed a few minutes ago. There is no bias in classrooms guys. And it's obvious They are biased. They're totally biased. Why. Because everyone is.

And the sooner we can wrap our minds around that the sooner we can actually cut through the noise and have a better.

Conversation about education. You say you should go ask your parents about how they feel about that. Well, so, okay. Okay, teachers are supposed to teach reading math science the things that are actually going to make them contributors of society.

Answering a child's questions about whether or not men or women should be wearing makeup or not is I don't think within that realm.

Okay, so you said science right? And so we're talking about a physical science. We're talking about human anatomy and biology here. So a child says I thought boys could not wear makeup. I have an x and y chromosome and i'm wearing makeup.

I could factually answer that without indoctrinating with any opinion, but it's in no way scientific your answer that question. Whether or not scientific I would say maybe cultural or it's a perception or an opinion, but it's in no way scientific anyone else.

It's it's not scientific. It's an issue of values. Again, are you are you seeing this for yourself? It's not about facts, it's not about science. It's about whether men should express themselves this way and why that matters.

That's an issue of values. So so here's the question that follows. Because this is an issue of values. Why desmond should you be the one inculcating your values to students? Did parents get a vote on whether your values are part of the curriculum?

They want their children to learn? I didn't I. I think that's a much more interesting question. I am a chatty person.

So i'm going to take a pause and i'm going to. Let's see if anyone else has something to say.

So I just had one question for you. Because not all homes are are welcoming or open or conversation or safe. So, how do we. How do we balance that?

I think that what we're saying is that there are certain conversations that are not to be had with a teacher and I think that the argument that a lot of people on the right and conservatives are making is that We just don't feel as if actors of the state should be having conversations that are taxpayer funding conversations with children.

About conversations that have not come up in their own households and to that point if you can't talk about god in the classroom. Why can we talk about every gender under the sun, right? I think that's the the the conundrum that we we find ourselves in if we are banning those conversations.

We've banned those a long time ago. Then how can we have these conversations just because they're belong to a different side of the political aspect?

I think we actually talk about god in the classroom all the time, right? Yeah, who's taught religion who's taught world religions. Who's taught like history in the way that you know puritans of like and that's.

Okay, because god is part of the fabric of history and whatever else about it from a development perspective.

This is how christianity originates how islam originated. We don't talk about like this is what this gender is and this is if you feel this way. Then there's gender affirmation therapy all those things.

I think you uh,.

Uh, so. So This this young man gets so close to saying it and then he just stops short. It's about values y 'all. So so we teachers do teach about god in the classroom. I did as well as as a literature teacher, especially as I went through early american literature with students.

God was on the lips and the minds of early american authors, right? You can't miss it. So so from a like a historical perspective. Different teachers can broach the subject of god in the classroom. But what about whether or not believing in god should be normative for students today?

Or or normative for the average person in society. That's a question of values. And that's the question that should be posed to all these teachers. Can someone teach about the fact that many people believe in more than one gender?

I think you can. I think you should actually even as a christian Parent christian teacher, whatever. I think students should know what's happening in society today. But is the subject being taught in a very factual clinically descriptive way or is it also being taught as normative?

And if so, why is it being taught as normative? That's a conversation that as far as I can tell most parents are just not having with educators and if they are having it, it's like Ah, they're trying to but but it's not clearly articulated and that's not very productive.

All right. Hey real quick, uh, we're having what I think is probably one of the most important conversations to have. I would really love for more people to know about this. Would you help me by liking and subscribing to the channel?

I I really do try to make uh videos that have a lot of value for you guys. Um, so if you could help me by liking and subscribing i'd greatly appreciate it. All right back to the video.

I actually bring up a really good parallel of like I feel comfortable and I feel like it is okay. To talk about identity issues the same way we talk about god not Indoctrinating anyone not telling this is what you have to be or you have to believe.

But saying this is something that some people believe but in the sense of gender identity, I don't see that parallel. How is that making someone more literate more successful?

What I hear you saying is that learning about different gender identities does not make somebody a more considerate well-rounded person. But learning about different religions does make you a more considerate.

I'm saying that is a part of history.

I don't understand where gender identity falls within.

What we should be teaching religious history and god comes into play in terms of history. Cool. But don't gay people and trans people too. It's not like i'm the first transgender person to ever walk this earth.

Like there are trans people that were and gay people who were part of major movements in this country. Like from the civil rights movement to the feminist movement to I mean Obviously stonewall like isn't that part of history too.

Let's just take a step back.

So just show of hands. Who here thinks public school is the best option for kids. Okay, and who thinks private school is the best option for kids? Who thinks home school is the best option for kids. And then some of you guys didn't raise your hands at all.

It's so challenging to pick one right answer for that because essentially what you're asking is who do you trust the most with your children? Who do you trust to give them the cultural values that I have and then fill in the gaps where I don't necessarily know the answer.

But I trust that they're experts and are going to give my children the attention that they need. In order to develop so that they can be a better version of themselves. So this is my guy.

This guy Who just spoke knows what's going on? He he knows that it comes down to trusting educators to inculcate values into students just as much as it is. You know training them and equipping them math skills science all that stuff.

The answer to this question right home school private school public school. The answer is it depends on your situation and location. Maybe there are some great private schools with teachers, you know that share your values and maybe Now this is challenging for some of you to hear right?

Maybe it's public school. Maybe there are public schools where there are christians in the classroom. Maybe there are public schools where there are christians as administrators. I know they exist. I wasn't the only christian in a public school guys.

Now, let's let's let's just look at it from all angles. That's becoming less and less of a reality as time goes on. I acknowledge that but it still is technically true that these situations exist for students, okay.

But maybe the reality is home school is the only option where students get equipped and their character is developed in positive ways as well but it's just I hear this so much with with christians who talk to other christians about the education issue.

They say ah, it's just this one thing guys. It's just this one thing home school. It's only home school guys. It's not. It's not a one-size-fits-all solution and anybody telling you that it's only Public school.

It's only private school. It's only home school. They're not helping you think through your options clearly enough.

If I had to. Choose one. It's public school. It is. The best tool we have to give everybody a chance at a good education no matter where you. Come from how much money you have. Public schools where not everybody thinks the same and people are coming from all walks of life.

Is a good like microcosm of that global experience um where you can learn critical thinking skills and learn how to be a good community member because not everybody looks like you or.

Things like you call. You're shaking your head.

Well, first of all, our schools are more segregated ever than our public schools, especially in blue states. New york and california have the most segregated schools.

And on top of that by the way self-segregated self. The students are segregating themselves. And in some cases being very vocal and morally self-righteous in the fact that they are self-segregating.

Which is just stunning to see. We are in a place where our public schools are not safe. Especially the last 20 years and I just don't see why sending our kids to these environments where it's unsafe. We also used to be I because I used to be on the left.

We used to be against the institutionalization of our children. These kids are being institutionalized having these places where there's two thousand Three thousand kids. I'm okay with public school. But the problem with it is that it's become an environment where it's just almost like like the prison to the school to prison.

Pipeline. We used to talk about that in the 90s. We're not talking about that anymore. And I think that's something that parents need to wake up about and america needs to wake up about the institutionalization of our children.

So I talk about the school to prison pipeline all day every day and I hear what you're saying.

Yeah, the school to prison pipeline refers to the idea that uh, zero tolerance policies at schools Affects students in ways that set them up for prison for prison time. So if you have uh, zero tolerance policies and students continue to get in trouble.

And like eventually they get expelled. They'll eventually land in jail as juveniles and adults. And and folks track this and call this the school to prison pipeline. That's that's what they mean when they're referring to that saying that it's terrible.