June 19, 2019 Show with Gary George, Gary L. Scott, & William Sasser on “A Loving Tribute to the Late John G. Reisinger: A Sovereign Grace Pioneer During the Calvinistic Resurgence Among Baptists in the Mid-20th Century”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania It's iron sharpens iron This is a radio platform in which pastors

Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron. So one man sharpens another

Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation

To make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions and now here's your host

Chris Arnzen Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron .com

this is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 19th day of June 2019 and I'm so thrilled to have three old friends on the program today

Two of which have been guests on iron sharpens iron radio in the past and one will be a first -time guest

We have today pastor Gary George of Sovereign Grace Chapel in Southbridge, Massachusetts Gary L Scott an itinerant

Sovereign Grace Baptist evangelist and William Sasser pastor of Grace Church at Franklin, Tennessee and we're all going to be discussing a loving tribute to the late

John G Riesinger a Sovereign Grace pioneer during the Calvinistic resurgence among Baptists in the mid 20th century and brethren

It's my honor and privilege to either welcome you back or welcome you for the first time to iron sharpens iron radio

Glad to be here and Thank you, Chris. It's great to be with you great to be with your brother

Chris. Yes, and the the last two greetings I got were from Returning guests

Gary George and Gary L Scott and the first person whose voice you heard

William Sasser He is a first -time guest on the program and I'm looking forward to this discussion and I'm also looking forward to promoting the 2019

John Bunyan conference in Franklin, Tennessee where God willing I will be manning and iron sharpens iron radio exhibitors booth and Being edified and enjoying the fellowship this coming

Sunday through Wednesday So I hope that as many of you who are listening

Especially those who are living in the Tennessee area but also those who are able to take a train plane or automobile can attend the

John Bunyan conference in Franklin, Tennessee and Meet me there. I would love to meet many

Listeners whom I've never heard from before and I'd also love to hear from old or meet I should say

See again, I should say old friends who have listened to this program for years at the

John Bunyan conference in Franklin, Tennessee But we'll be giving you all the details that you need to Attend this conference during the course of this program

Before I introduce my guests individually I just want to let you know a little bit about the the background of Reverend John G Riesinger who many of you may have heard of many of you may be discovering this brother for the first time

Our brother John G Riesinger passed away not long ago December 17th 2018 at the age of 94

He is survived by his daughter Jean his son Robert and nine grandchildren and eight great grandchildren he was pre -deceased by his wife of 70 years

Rosemary and Pastor John Riesinger was a United States Navy veteran of World War two and served with the

Seabees in the Pacific Theater he was a retired minister and was the former minister at Grace Community Church in Webster, New York, which he started in 1996

Reverend John Riesinger authored 28 books on Christianity and Although I had some disagreements with John.

He is a key figure in my own journey of Christianity I have so many precious memories of Attending the

John Bunyan conferences in the late 1980s and early 1990s Along with another brother who is now with the

Lord for eternity Don blend Don blend was a precious a very important friend of mine, and he was also the pastor of my late wife

Julie before we were married and we had so many wonderful times of fellowship with Don blend and I'm assuming that all three of my guests remember

Don from his regular attendance at the John Bunyan conference But when

I was a new Christian soaking up the doctrines of Sovereign Grace John Riesinger was a powerful influence on my life and understanding of the doctrines of Sovereign Grace, so I am so pleased to be presenting to him a

Radio program in memory and loving memory of him today But let me now introduce to you one by one our guests today

First of all Gary George pastor of Sovereign Grace Chapel in Southbridge, Massachusetts Gary if you could let our listeners know more about Sovereign Grace Chapel Well Sovereign Grace Chapel started

Kind of in on the wings of John Riesinger in some ways The church that I now pastor started in about 1991

John Riesinger had been in Travels with Bob Murray in different places and one of the places he stopped was here in my neighborhood

It was called Charlton Charlton, Massachusetts And there was a foundation organization called

New England Christian Information Center Which was basically a countercult ministry they had the likes of Walter Martin James White other figures of that caliber who the founders of this organization would would bring in for not just cult awareness

But also just for good theology and Bob Murray was one of those ones that they brought in and it happened to be that John Riesinger was traveling with Bob on this particular occasion when

I was visiting the Information Center just so I could you know, hear Bob Murray and then that's when

I first met John Riesinger and my first Introduction to New Covenant theology was some words that I had exchanged with him up to that point

I had very vague understanding or knowledge or even interest in it for that matter So that was my first meeting with John and then shortly after that the church was planted by another individual

And I came into the picture about a year after in 1992 and I have been there ever since we're in South Central, Massachusetts Maybe about an hour and 15 minutes outside of Boston close to the

Worcester, Massachusetts And we're at Doctrines of Grace Church We hold New Covenant theology as well

Just like John advocated and in some like him like two guests you also have on the radio today

My memories of as fond as anybody's about John and Had many occasions to go to conferences where he spoke.

He's been in my home several times Many phone calls we've exchanged back and forth and He's even invited me to be a speaker at some of the funny conferences that that he headed up in years past So anyway, that's my kind of introduction to to John.

Yes, and I remember well Your speaking engagements at the John Bunyan conference in Pennsylvania.

I remember meeting you for the first time there I remember being very edified by your messages on amillennialism and also speaking against the teaching of conditional immortality and annihilation ism and Also, I remember a

Debate that you did not have there But you had it in Queens, New York at the church where our mutual friend

Ed Moore is the pastor you had a debate against hyper preterists there at the

North Shore Baptist Church in Bayside, Queens, but our friendship has been spanning a long time and I thank

God for our Our friendship and I remember interviewing you as well on this program if anybody wants to know more about Sovereign Grace Chapel I intend to repeat this information later, but the website is

Sovereign Grace MA abbreviation for Massachusetts Sovereign Grace MA org

Sovereign Grace MA org and now my old friend Gary L Scott itinerant

Sovereign Grace Baptist evangelist Gary tell us about what may be new on the horizon

For you and your ministry. I know that perhaps you might be candidating at a church Here or there but to tell us about what's going on in the the life of Gary L Scott these days is

Gary with us Hello Gary Well, I don't know.

I'm here. Okay, Gary. Can you give us an update? I'm sorry I'm getting you give us an update on your your ministry your itinerant evangelism ministry and so on.

I Don't know Well Are you listening to us on the on a computer where there is an echo or delay because you there?

You're not responding very quick. Oh, I have you on my phone But I put you on mute so that you wouldn't pick up any background noise.

Okay that off. Okay. Let me give you an update I had the pastor for about 43 years and about three years ago resigned active

Pastorate and in the interval have been interim at two different churches that have been churches that have been in difficulty and have helped them kind of re -stabilize and to find a new pastor

I am currently at an interim position in Oakwood Baptist Church in Camp Hill, Pennsylvania That's right near Harrisburg, and we are actively now seeking a full -time lead pastor for there

But at the same time over the last Three four or five years. I've been working on a project that I'm calling cross theater where God stages

His love and in fact, this will be my topic for presentation at the bunion conference and this essentially is a fresh approach to discipleship that Recognizes that for people to really follow

Jesus that involves more than just having Information that they affirm and acknowledge and understand but it is about embodying

God's love in their life and the community in which they're placed and so I have been working to develop that and we now have a website that is cross theater org and I hope that You'll take a look at that and see some of the resources that are available

But let me say a word about that John Riesinger John Riesinger became a friend of mine in the mid 70s

He actually was the first living person that I knew that believed the doctrines of grace

I grew up in a chalminian church a little mix of Calvinism a little mix of Arminianism a dash of this and that and as I went through Bible College, it was a dispensational non -sovereign grace

Bible College, I had a number of Exchanges and Came to develop those convictions when

I went on to seminary That's where they were fully developed. And when I went to my first church, it was

Grace Baptist Church and Carrollton Ohio I had

John Riesinger come as a speaker and I can so well remember that was about 1975 and I was just getting to know him and I remember sitting down for the first time and talking to someone who actually understood the sovereignty of God who embraced the doctrines of grace and Could articulate them and not only a clear but in a winsome way and I remember sitting across the the table from him talking about his ministry of being an itinerant

Evangelist and expressed some interest perhaps and going in that direction and he looked me in the eye

And he said I can give you three reasons why you cannot do that And he pointed to Gary Gretchen and Jennifer my three children

And he said it doesn't work when you have small children. And so that began a long and a beneficial friendship

Some of the early Bunyan conferences. In fact, I picked out some of the early Bunyan papers you mentioned about the

Gary George is Presentation that he did on annihilationism. And in fact,

I sent him a copy of that this morning and I said Do you remember that and he said yeah 1994 and I really go back to the early

Bunyan conferences when we were in rocks PA at the Fire station there and it was a small group, but it was a great group

And what I particularly appreciated about John Riesinger was the clarity and the winsomeness

Of his approach. It wasn't just doctrinal. It wasn't petty. It wasn't a

Form of elitism, but it was just a down -home Let me tell you what the

Bible says and how I understand it so he made a great impact with the first group of people that I pastored at Grace Baptist Church in Carrollton and Then continued through the years and the various churches that I pastored and being at the

Bunyan conference So I really see him as one of the key mentors in my life

I came to know him within the first two years that I was beginning my pastoral ministry and so I I looked at him as a

Real encouragement a real mentor a real blessing from God Praise God and now

William Sasser pastor of Grace Church at Franklin, Tennessee Why don't you tell us first of all something more about Grace Church at Franklin, Tennessee bill?

Well From southwest, Georgia as you'll probably be able to detect

And I know you're a southerner anyway I was at a Bible conference in Pine Bluff, Arkansas about 1969 and Met met several what were called sovereign grace pastors preachers teachers and A fellow who lived in Nashville, Tennessee contacted me in 1970 and asked me if I might be interested in coming up to Nashville Franklin is just 15 minutes south of Nashville, Tennessee and so if I would come up and do some teaching hold some meetings, so I came up and And Had several meetings in fact going back and forth back and forth driving from Georgia to Tennessee So after months of that, he called me one day and asked me if I would be interested in coming here permanently well, we prayed about it looked at all kinds of things and Decided to do that.

You'd never heard of Franklin. We thought we would be in the south part of Nashville and So we came up here to pastor a small group of nine people

Almost immediately. We began to have visitors. We met in a holiday Inn on Sunday morning met and a basement on Sunday evening and Wednesdays then we moved to a bank building and then after about a year or so a little small building in Franklin became available and We were able to get that building

Moved in it. We were in that building for 35 years and then About 14 years ago.

We built a brand new beautiful building and this is why These fellows want to hold this

Bible conference and our church building because it's a beautiful building and it's ideal for conference It's a beautifully styled building reminds me of the churches.

You might have seen a couple of centuries ago in Europe So I've been here for nearly 50 years been pastoring the same church nearly 50 years.

I have one of three elders Dr. Nelson Foster is an elder and Joe Turner is an elder and we have several deacons so it's been it's been a wonderful journey for me and As far as John is concerned.

I too met John in the 70s. I met him at a Bible conference and we became friends and then

I think John at a time in his life when he was Well, I would say in the doldrums and at that point we were able to Kind of call him in and we had him here at the church.

He would often come here and stay weeks at a time and the rosemary would come and once I had to go over to Europe and he just stayed in pastored the church and Rosemary and John lived in our home while we were gone

So a wonderful wonderful Friend a good brother and as these two men have said just an excellent excellent teacher that had the ability

To take things that might be complicated or could be complicated and make them so that a child or could understand them

He had that he had a gift. I think to do that So we have wonderful memories of John a lot of pictures of him

In fact of my wife and I went by to see him Just a few months before he passed away.

We had a great visit with him. I have a visit recorded on my phone and Might show some of that at this conference this year at our conference at Grace Church at Franklin here

In fact in Tennessee great and if anybody wants more information about Grace Church at Franklin, Tennessee go to Grace Church at Franklin org

Grace Church at Franklin org and the at is actually spelled out a T Grace Church a

T Franklin org and Franklin is spelled F R a n k l I n and I hope that if you live in the

Franklin Tennessee area or if you have family friends and loved ones in that area or if you're ever Vacationing in that area that you will look up Grace Church at Franklin and pay them a visit or even join them if you live close enough

Or refer them to people who can join them Well the conference that is coming up that I am going to be attending

God willing the John Bunyan conference in Franklin, Tennessee This is a conference that features quite a number of speakers including our three guests today it's going to be held

June 23rd through the 26th, which is this Sunday through Wednesday and Perhaps I could have each of you just give a summary of A description of this conference and what you'll be speaking on.

I know that Gary Scott already Discussed that he will be presenting something about cross theater

But perhaps you can add something to that Gary, but let's start with Gary George What do you plan to address at the

John Bunyan conference? well, I I Did I did have a spot in the conference as the speaker?

But when I recognized that Steve William who I think the keynote speaker at only one slot

Volunteered to drop out so that he could take a second slot. So I'm not having a significant part other than We're going to have a tribute to John early in the conference.

I believe that's the first session So I'll have a small part in that along with I believe at least four or five other brothers are also going to share some of their memories and Recognition of John's influence and impact on our lives and the lives of many more

So that's my part. I am a board member of a Providence Theological Institute And we are the ones that have our sponsoring the conference, though Bill's Church is the host church and it's very

Accommodating building and the folks there are just fantastic So it's going to be a real great place to go and if anybody can possibly get to it

And let me say to there is no charge for this conference It baffles me how how that happened

I've never been to a conference at least in this caliber and not be charging anything to attend

And as far as I'm concerned if I named all the names of the speakers and I believe we have about 10 or 11 different speakers extremely competent brothers

Tony Costa being one of them Along with many others of the same sort of caliber.

It's an all -star lineup Yeah, and I say that, you know with real confidence.

These brothers are real gifted. They've got Some great things. I know they're going to share So I'm happy just to as a board member be a part of having this conference

Get off the ground and get all these various people coming and preaching the word

So I hope there's a host of people that will come and take advantage of it And I think Bill could probably tell us for those that can't make it

He may know possibly how they can live stream the conference or at least be able to watch it at some point

Do you have that information Bill? Yes, well, of course Let me just say this for years and years and years we had

Bible conferences at Grace Church, and sometimes we had 12 and 14 speakers Generally, we began

Monday evening and finished Thursday evening Now a few years ago in fact since we're talking about John a few years ago, he approached me and Asked me about contributing to These John Bunyan conferences and so John and I went out to Oregon For four years or five years and tried to establish a

John Brown Bunyan conference there Well in the process of time, I've met various brethren

I've known Gary for a number of years I've known Gary Scott for a long long time from when he was pastoring

Down in Dalton, Georgia. He was there twice. He was there a long time He the

Lord led him somewhere else came back So I've known all of these brethren for a long time And I think the difference as I see it the old conferences that we had

The church had would be what I would call an open conference and That means that that was a church.

That was a no no topic was assigned and no papers were delivered Who didn't have question -and -answer?

Sessions and so on and people just Delivered whatever they thought the

Lord had given them. And of course in the I would say the

South They had a strong sovereign grace Kind of movement and they began having these conferences everywhere.

Well, as I say after I met John Then I was able to to fraternize and attend

Some of the conferences that have become known as John Bunyan conference the

Providence Theological Institute has had I believe for you brethren can correct me four or five of these conferences here at Grace Church in Franklin, but the church is sponsored those conferences and These conferences, of course

Usually a topic is developed a paper may be presented and then we have some very interesting question -and -answer series and it's a very

It's a type of conference where you can learn a lot about the systematics of the theology that we're now called

New Covenant Trying to crystallize it to make it clear to bring it out

Which John of course had so much as a pioneer in opening up that particular perspective of the scriptures so That's clear

We've had conferences for nearly 50 years, but we began having these Bunyan conferences

We had some John Bunyan conference than a 15 years ago But we're now having them with the

Providence Theological Institute and so many brethren that are instructors in seminaries and so on Been very successful.

We think we think that they I think the impact of the conferences is that what is taught?

Filters down through the pastors to the people and the people understand the great

Gifts and the great Privileges that we have in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I've often said that Everybody says they believe in grace but unfortunately many people have a legal mentality and the

New Covenant perspective frees us up from this sort of thing and In that vein that in light of that,

I think this is the value of these John Bunyan conferences Yes, well

I could even say as one who has always been a member of a Confessionally Reformed Baptist Church that was on the covenantal side of the dispute.

I can say that I always found the John Bunyan conferences a rich experience in spite of any differences

I had and In fact, I know that at least on one occasion

John had a speaker there at the Bunyan conference from the covenantal side of the divide a

Brother from England whose name escapes me right now. He's with the Lord now for eternity but the

Bunyan conference is always fascinated me because there was and perhaps still are a wide variety of people that would attend

From not not a cookie cutter background you had all millennial brethren you had pre -mill pre -trib brethren

Dispensational brethren And even at times even though the differences caused a little tension and a little heat during the conferences

There was always a tremendous sense of warmth and brotherhood and grace and can perhaps

Gary George you might be able to explain in your opinion Why do you think that there was something about the

Bunyan conferences that allowed? For people of different backgrounds theologically who obviously agreed on some core things but there was a sense of unity even amidst the tension that would sometimes develop during discussions and so on Well, I think it's attributed to grace and I think

John magnified that oh so much in his ministry in preaching and there was a high degree of tolerance if you will and patience with one another and No one was trying to you know, push their points across in some factitious way and John was very

Open to listen to other other views, especially when it came to you know, not not necessarily

Soteriological ones, although I must say that one year he did allow a four -point Calvinist to give his

Particular stand To everybody and and but there was a great opportunity to question him and it was just handled in Such amazing grace by by all that were involved and I think that was kind of understood by all who attended that this there was no

Unanimity in to such a degree that You would have had to agree with every particular point to fit in well with the conference attendees

That wasn't there was there was no requirement and I think Depending on how strong you felt about your particular position whether it was theological or Eschatological if you were willing to listen to other alternatives

You're more than welcome there. And I think you felt the warmth and you felt the camaraderie and there was a great opportunity for exchanging ideas without feeling like you were going to be combated by Your opponent or anything of that sort though, we did have some lively debates and discussions mind you but it wasn't to the point that it was divisive and we we understood that we were willing to Kind of put our cards on the table and just let let people make their own judgments on things

I can say for instance the first conference I attended was in 1993 in Louisburg at the college there.

Oh, yeah I remember those those nights trying to fall asleep Feeling like I was sleeping in the barracks along with Colonel Hogan and everybody else from Hogan's heroes

And not being able to fall asleep when you heard the chainsaw of of simultaneous snoring going on And with John particularly

I had actually called him sometime after the conference maybe a month or two later Kind of almost had to reintroduce myself

Let me you know, he really met me one time before that, but I had asked him some questions about conditional immortality and Annihilationism and full sleep and that type of thing and you know

Amazingly here. I am asking him these various questions. And he said hey brother. Why don't you speak on the subject of?

Annihilationism next year, would you mind taking a slot in the conference? I said John I'm humbled by that I I'm not sure how adequate a job

I could do I was actually calling you hoping that you could maybe help me in my further understanding of it

But apparently whatever I said must have impressed him enough To and this is what

I'm trying to my point. I'm trying to get across was he wasn't afraid to sort of Risk maybe what someone might say because you know, we can we can always kind of iron things out we can and John had a way of Sort of I don't want to say he was a compromiser.

That's not the point. We he was very clear and But he was very very humble and very gracious towards Varieties of use and yeah, he even he even allowed a a proponent of conditional immortality

It gives his two cents after your message if you may remember well, there was a question in the answer period and I know there were a

Few a very few that were if not in that camp they were leaning into that camp and I think maybe

John may have been aware of it prior to Selecting me in the topic for that particular year, which happened to be really my my first, you know

Dedicated year to go there. I mean the previous year. I just someone asked me at the last minute How would you like to go with me to a

John Bunyan conference in Lewisburg? And I said, yeah, I guess I'll go but I definitely wanted to go back the following year

And of course, I had an obligation to go because I consented to John's invitation and I did spend a good

Six months trying to do all the research I could in preparation for not just what

I was going to present But what I could possibly hear from some that might have may have had a different perspective on it

And I still believe that that's an important Area of doctrine that we cannot let go

Because I do think it does damage to the essence of the gospel

And I'm willing to debate anybody on that because I think there are some fundamental

Points that cannot be compromised Yes, I remember I remember you had a profound comment during your message that has stuck with me all these years that you said that if you believe in conditional immortality and by the way for our listeners who don't know what that is and I may be not

Exactly as precise as the advocates of that view would want someone to be in describing it but from what

I have understood speaking with brethren who believe in that is that they are not annihilationists in The view that somebody is instantly annihilated after death if they're lost or damned but they do believe that there will be people in hell suffering, but it won't be for eternity and you had said that if somebody could

Satisfy the wrath of God through their own punishment in hell. It was a violation of the gospel And I thought that was one of the best

Arguments I have heard. Do you remember saying that? Yeah, I'm not sure those were the exact words, but that's definitely a point that I that I would have come across For sure, and I think

I don't know if it was With Ed was it was it Edward Fudge who wrote the book?

Yes, I believe did you didn't you have him on your program in New York City?

Oh, yeah Well on Long Island, New York, I had him debate my friend Ken samples on that many years ago

In fact it was now that I'm thinking about it. It wasn't even on my show was before I had My own show and I got them booked on the

Andy Anderson live show on WMCA. That's what it was That's why you're thinking New York City because that Is a

New York City radio station But we have to go to we have to go to our first break right now and I would like to continue our conversation right where we had left off there and Also, of course have other people chime in on the panel here

And we have to make sure we leave plenty of time to specifically address John Riesinger Who we are paying tribute to today

But if anybody has any questions or comments our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com please give us at least your first name your city and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside the

USA and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter

Don't go away. God willing. We'll be right back with after these messages with our tribute to the late

John Riesinger As Host of iron sharpens iron radio.

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Baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship Performed with faith joy and sobriety discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at GC BC NJ dot squarespace .com

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God bless you. Welcome back This is Chris Arnson. If you just tuned in to our show today, we are paying a tribute to John Riesinger who went home to be with the

Lord for eternity in 2018 in December of 2018 and He was a sovereign grace pioneer during the

Calvinistic resurgence amongst Baptists in the mid 20th century and remained a powerful influence on the lives and teachings and ministries of many

Pastors and and I hate to use the term layman, but so that you understand where I'm coming from your ordinary

Christian alike throughout the decades after this resurgence began and Today to pay him tribute we have

Gary George pastor of Sovereign Grace Chapel in Southbridge, Massachusetts Gary L Scott an itinerant evangelist and William Sasser pastor of Grace Church at Franklin, Tennessee And I do wish that a mutual friend of all of ours was here to join us

Fred Zaspel, he was John Riesinger's right -hand man through the throughout all of the

Bunyan conferences Attended he is currently on the pastoral team at the

Reformed Baptist Church of Franconia, Pennsylvania I just want to give him a shout out Wish you could be with us

Fred and For those of you who live in Franconia, Pennsylvania or close by if you want to pay a visit to the church

It's RBC Franconia org RBC Franconia dot org and one thing that was interesting about Something that we were just addressing

John Riesinger is being very clear about and passionate about specific things that he believed and perhaps even being adamantly opposed to certain things, but at the same time having a

Attitude of charity Even with the man who was his right -hand man at the John Bunyan conferences the aforementioned

Fred Zaspel They had a very strong difference of opinion on eschatology John being he never said he was on millennial.

I don't think but he from what I could gather he was And Fred being historic dispensationalist.

I'm sorry. Sorry about that historic Premillennialist one of the reasons that was a

Freudian slip there is I remember John Viewed all premillennialism as dispensationalism and he and he

Really wouldn't cut slack with anybody on that issue, but Gary Scott If you could tell us something about the

The friendship that you had with John Riesinger and I know that you would have been among those who was historic Premillennialist and may have had other differences tell us something about how you appreciated

John's strictness combined with tolerance and charity

John was actually a non -confessing Historic premill. He was just ashamed or careful to identify what he really was

Just to let you know that that's really where he was coming from now. He's convinced of it

The question that you asked earlier About what we're going to be doing at the conference and that will answer the question also about John Riesinger I am doing a presentation on the the flow of redemptive history

We're calling it cross theater and cross theater is there's a verse in 1st

Corinthians 4 9 Where Paul says God put us apostles on display at the end of the procession like men condemned to die in the arena

We have become a theater for the world to angels and to men And so behind this is the sense that this world is a theater

Calvin said it's a theater of God's glory and And in fact

God is the playwright. He is the producer. He's the director he's the marquee player and sending his son and When I was in Bible college in seminary,

I went to a Bible college that was dispensational I went to a seminary that was covenantal and I came out of seminary convinced that both of them had fatal flaws and In those days in the night early 1970s you were either dispensation or covenant

There really weren't other alternatives and I remember Leaving there being convinced of what

I would have called a historical redemptive approach the theologians It was while I was at the first church in In Ohio that I came in contact with John and these discussions began about the flow of redemptive history and New Covenant theology and Really at heart is trying to understand the movement and the flow of redemptive history

And one of the key meetings that took place for two years in the early 80s was the

Dallas Council on Baptist theology that Some of I Know a number of the men that will be at the conference were part of that very long was there.

Don Riesinger was there Ron McKinney was there Bill were you there at the

Dallas conference? I was yes Yes And and a number of others and the focus of that was trying to wrestle with how do we understand the?

movement of the covenants from Adam to Noah to Abraham to Moses to David and ultimately to the

New Covenant So that really solidified that discussion at the

Dallas Council really solidified my commitment to pursue this course and come to understand that and I was given the assignment of looking at how the gospel used the sense of law and gospel how that played out in the book of Acts and I remember doing the

Presentation and coming there excited to see a new covenant perspective

That was before the word was common and was adopted and that led me into Years of trying to work through and sort through that and so cross theater is really

Kind of the germination of 40 or 50 years of thinking and working through the text of Scripture and trying to trace really

God's love at the heart of Scripture at the heart of reality is a father a son and the spirit

That lives in in what's called this inter -trinitarian love

Where the father has eternally loved the son and The love of the father and son is so great that the spirit proceeds from that and that's for five

Before anything existed there was the father there was the son and there was the spirit and and God Determined that that love that was so apparent and so enjoyed was going to be stayed

So he created this world for the purpose of staging that love and New covenant theology begins to trace that from God's love that was expressed in creation

What God essentially did is? he created people image bearers with a capacity to know his love and to share in his love and We read to in Genesis 3 as we're following Tracking with this

I want to give this a quick summary of this that love was spurned And it looked like maybe this project is going to fail

But that was in the script God has scripted the failure of Adam and Eve in order to open the door for him to demonstrate the depths of his love and See all of the

Old Testament is about God's love this promise He made that promise to Abraham he actually made the promise earlier to Adam that the seed of the woman would crush the seed of the serpent and then made the promise to Abraham that he was going to be a blessing for the whole world and all of the

Old Testament is really about God's love that was promised that's going to come to fruition and Ultimately going to come in the form of the

Messiah and in the incarnation of Jesus Christ We find that love now is actually fulfilled what he's been promising

What he expressed in creation what he promised to Abraham now comes to its fulfillment in God Coming to this earth not an angel not a text not a tweet

But a person but the very second person of the Godhead who?

Becomes in flesh who's come to this world and now he's going to show

God's love in a way that we would never know That and I love the passage in 1st

John 4 where he says this is how God showed his love among us

Is one and only son that we might live through him and it looks like what when you come to the page of the

New Testament This is the last word. I love that. No, it's really not because Jesus said

I need to go back to heaven in order that the spirit can come and when he comes he's going to flesh this out

And so Paul says in Romans 5 5 that he has given us the spirit and has poured out

The Father's love in our heart so this love that was promised and fulfilled in Christ is now embodied and this is critical in in my

Understanding and the passion that I have after pastoring for almost 50 years

Is that we have so many professing Christians that? Affirm Doctrinal truth,

I believe this I believe this I believe this but it's really not Integrated or embodied in their life and The whole point of the

New Covenant is now that Christ has formed a new covenant community

He's given us his spirit that spirit Embodies his love in our hearts.

So we embody that in our churches and our families and our communities It's not just a an intellectual thing

It's not a mind game But now but but but gospel is embodied

But that doesn't bring that to an end. We have the hope that this love is going to be consummated

You know, there's a day coming that there's going to be this glorious Consummation when

Christ comes back in power and in great glory Now all of the things that I'm sharing with you are

Those seeds were planted in my mind and heart for John's ministry It grows out of the bunion conferences

It grows out of the the Dallas Council on Baptist Theology and so I can tell you in my life

It wasn't just a personal friendship with John, but it was the truth that he embraced

In fact as I was looking through some of my early folders of things from the bunion conference

I Actually have the mimeograph first edition of Abraham's four seeds that John went later went on to publish and And so John's legacy is is not just with personal friendship while there are many

But his legacy to me is the truth that he saw in scripture of this movement of God Historical redemptive key points in the

Covenant and and this was masterfully set out by Steve Wellum and Peter Gentry and Kingdoms through Covenant and they traced the the flow of that So I I simply want to say my indebtedness to the

John's is flagging those things early in my ministry Nurturing that along give me an opportunity to present some of those things to interact with some of those things and Where I am today and what we're doing with cross theater is really

Resting firmly on the legacy of John Riesinger. Great We have to go to our midway break right now

And this is a longer than normal break Because Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida needs to localize

Iron Trump and Zion Radio to the Lake City, Florida area So please be patient with us and write down The information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them which will enable us to remain on the air longer

God willing and also send questions in to our guests about John Riesinger and his impact on the body of Christ While he was here with us on this earth and even beyond his entering into eternity through his

Recorded sermons and lectures and writings, but don't go away

We're gonna be back after these messages God willing with more of our guests paying tribute to the late

John Riesinger Chris Arns and host of iron sharpens iron radio announcing a new website with an exciting offer from world

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I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years His name is Dan, but a few go

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That's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com I'm pastor

Bill Shishko host of a visit to the pastor's study And I am so thankful to be part of the advertising family right here on iron sharpens iron

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Now I just want to mention a few events that I hope everyone listening will attend first of all the conference that we are discussing right now the 2019

John Bunyan Conference of Tennessee in loving memory of John Riesinger This is going to be held this

Sunday, June 23rd through Wednesday, June 26th in Franklin, Tennessee at Grace Church at Franklin and the speakers include our guest today

Gary Scott Gary George and William Sasser and a number of other folks as well.

This is quite a long roster And dr Tony Costa is one name that I want to repeat because he is such an extraordinary preacher and teacher who have

I who I have used for a number of special events and a debate that I held in a

Carlisle, Pennsylvania between dr Costa and a Roman Catholic apologist But if you want all of the people are the names of all the people speaking at this conference go to PTI and ct .org

PTI and ct .org. That is the website of Providence Theological Institute PTINCT .org

and I hope that many of you will join me there in Franklin, Tennessee this Sunday through Wednesday for the 2019

John Bunyan conference then coming up in December December 19th and 20th

Which is a Thursday and Friday in the heart of Manhattan during the best time of year to visit

Manhattan That's the Christmas season. I will be attending the foundations conference, which is a conference orchestrated by sermon audio calm and The speakers include dr.

Stephen Jay Lawson whose voice you've been hearing every day advertising New Covenant Church NYC a

Congregation in Manhattan that sponsors this show. He is one of the finest preachers alive in my opinion.

Dr Stephen Jay Lawson Paul Washer another one of the finest preachers living my friend Jeff Thomas Retired from the ministry after over half a century

Pastoring Alfred Place Baptist Church in Everest with whales now He is an itinerant evangelist and an author and what an extraordinary preacher

He is the Reverend Armin Tomasian who I think is going to be a household name in the next decade

He's a young man, but he is so extraordinary and so powerful and so gifted. I truly believe amongst performed

Christians Anyway, he will become a household name Richard Caldwell jr. And Anthony Quigley I have not yet heard them preach yet, but they are on the roster and if sermon audio selected them they must be magnificent So if you want to join me there in Manhattan December 19th and 20th go to the foundations conference calm the foundations conference calm and I would do so quickly at register quickly because they can only hold less than 200 people in this venue in Manhattan Then finally

I am going to be heading out to Atlanta, Georgia in January From Thursday the 16th of January through Saturday the 18th of January for the g3 conference, which stands for gospel grace and glory this is a phenomenal conference that I have

Loved to man my exhibitors booth for iron trip and Zion radio there And they have over 5 ,000 people coming to this conference every year

So I would strongly urge you if you have a business or parachurch organization Something that you want to advertise and promote to the body of Christ.

This would be an ideal place to have an exhibitors booth the speakers at this conference include

Kosti Hinn he is the nephew of the notorious charlatan

Benny Hinn and he would not be upset hearing me say that because Kosti has renounced the word -of -faith heresies he was raised in and apart a major part of his mission now as a

Calvinistic Baptist pastor and cessationist by the way Is to expose the word -of -faith heresies for what they are for the deadly damning and deceiving doctrines

They are and he is on the roster David Miller is on the roster. What a phenomenal preacher.

He is Derek Thomas who's definitely well known by many in the audience of iron trip design radio my dear friend since 1995 dr.

James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries is Speaking Joel Beeky another friend of mine since I that I've known since the 1990s

Josh Bice the founder of the g3 conference and again, Stephen Jay Lawson and Paul Washer.

They are on this roster as well Dr. Tom Askell who was actually the pastor of Ernie Riesinger for a number of years

Ernie Riesinger who is or was the brother? I guess he still is in heaven the brother of John Riesinger who to whom we are paying tribute today

Dr. Tom Askell is the executive director of founders ministries the Calvinistic ministry in the

Southern Baptist Convention and Votie Balcom another extraordinary preacher is on the lineup the theme this

January is worship matters if you'd like to register go to g3 conference .com

g3 conference .com and As I said before I would strongly urge you not only to register as an attendee

But if you have a business or parachurch ministry that you want to promote I would register for an exhibitors booth as well

Because of the fact that they have over 5 ,000 people attending every year That's g3 conference .com

G3 conference .com make sure you tell the folks at the g3 conference that you heard about this event from Chris Arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio last but not least if You love this show.

You don't want it to disappear. You love the the guests and the topics that we feature

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When you click support at iron sharpens iron radio if you want to advertise with us send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

and put advertising in the subject line and If you are not a member of a Bible believing church

And if you're not prayerfully seeking for one you're living in rebellion against God, please rectify that I can help you find a church

Near you I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world and I've already helped a number of people in our audience find churches that they've joined and also churches that they have visited while on Vacation or recommended to loved ones so send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

and put I need a church in the subject line or something like that and Use that email as well to send us a question or a comment on the life of John Riesinger to our guest today chrisarnsen at gmail .com

chrisarnsen at gmail .com And before I return to our guests and in particular

Bill Sasser who I know has some personal anecdotes To provide us about John Riesinger and what

John has meant to him. I Have an email that I've received and keep in mind

This is a brother from the Covenant side of the divide between Calvinistic Baptists He is a

Reformed Baptist and a Covenantal Baptist But he loves and owes a great debt to John Riesinger and his email says

John Riesinger was a powerhouse in spreading the doctrines of grace throughout the United States for almost 70 years

John is responsible for bringing much glory to God through the changed lives and illuminated minds of tens of thousands of Saints including me

I was brought into the doctrines of grace in 1977 through John's four classic sermons on the doctrine of election and his five messages on the doctrines of grace

I remember attending a Bible conference in 1977 where John and Gary Scott were preaching

John spoke on Galatians and Gary Scott on evangelism It was a powerful conference. John had a unique teaching ability that riveted one's attention

It was my privilege to introduce John to the West Coast when I invited him to speak at our church

Near San Francisco in 1991. We had a great fellowship several months ago I created a preaching slot for John on first love radio

Org, his sermons are heard every day on this station John's great teaching legacy continues through modern technology and social media platforms he is an example of how much good can be done through teaching and Propagation of sound doctrine with the blessing of God and that is my friend

Joe Jackowitz president of first love ministries pastor at Christ Bible Church in Pleasanton, California and Pastor at large with family radio.

Thank you very much for sending that in Joe Jackowitz Bill Sasser you've known

John Riesinger perhaps longer than anyone on this panel if you could Provide us some of your your fondest memories of this dear brother well

That probably would entail some humor When he would stay here with us in fact my wife my dear wife and John who really got along great and Lynn my wife

Lynn was always She was talking to John about his health wanted wanted him to hang around for a while and he was a bit overweight so she kind of got him on a diet and He was doing quite well and then

One evening she heard some clunking around in the dark part of the house and she walked

And John was in there trying to find this cake that And in fact just earlier today

I was looking at a picture a photograph of John when he was here with us and he had his t -shirt on and he was

Just just a rarely as these brethren have already said he he had no pretense about him

He was what he was he was a very it was a person that no one could really dislike personally because he he just Tore down your defense really by his personality and then of course that gave him

Into your heart and your mind Teaching theology if I could sum up what

I think John taught me It would be this and I've been saying this for a long time

And I think I think Gary Scott and I had a conversation about this for a long time

I Was teaching what I believe has now is now called

New Covenant I knew that there were problems with the law and the Christian I was out of Sabbatarian there were lots of things like that, and I just simply began the

Lord began to teach me But if I could crystallize it as Gary has said it is about the flow of redemptive history

But if I could sum it up, and I've been saying this Congregation for for 35 years at least that the

Bible is a hymn book H. I am It's all about him. Amen mentions.

It mentions Israel. It mentions the church We have promises, but all of those promises are culminated and fulfilled in the

Lord Jesus Christ Everything comes to him everything all points to him the prophets point to him the law points to him little

Moses himself Everything so the Bible is a hymn book and to me that is the gist of New Covenant That everything in the scripture leads to him.

They will use these theological terms, you know Christotastic the Bible testifies of Christ Christocentric he's the centerpiece

Christotelic, he's the end of all the promises all of these things, but that's really what we're saying

Is that the Bible is an H. I am it is a hymn book. It's all about him

And when you see that I think it's almost like being born again again, it frees you up from Much of the legal mentality that we all have by nature

It frees us up from from trying to to do to understand what he has done

That it's finished And that's the thing that I came to see

I don't know if you've heard of a fellow named Carl Holt. Yes. He was a professor Carl Holt and Dr.

Gary Long and John and I had several meetings out in Colorado years ago and That was the thing that I presented there and they told me they said they think they said, you know

Bill I think that's it. I think that's where we're headed. We have to take these roads to get there.

We have to deal with the Theology and deal with those systems to get there, but I think that's where we're ending up we're saying it's not it's like the

Mount of Transfiguration when the Lord Jesus appeared and Peter said well, this is wonderful.

Let's just build three tabernacles One for Moses and one for the Prophet Elijah and one for Jesus and and the father spoke and said no

This is my son You hear him and Moses and Elijah disappeared and it was only the

Lord Jesus Christ And I think that's a summarization of what we're calling new covenant might be have different stripes now different Convictions within that new covenant framework, but that's what we're saying

We're saying that we're through with all of these other things and it's all about him We're taking up with him and that's who will be taken up with in eternity

So why not enjoy a little heaven on the way to heaven And we do have a listener in Let's see here in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York actually in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York That is where my dear late friend

Don blend my late wife's Pastor before we were married is used to be the pastor at First Baptist Church of Lindenhurst, Long Island I don't know

CJ who is writing in is from that church or not But let me give a shout out to my dear friends at First Baptist Church of Lindenhurst CJ asks

What would be something in the legacy of John Riesinger that? Reformed and sovereign grace believing

Baptists and Christians in general can learn from him that would span denominational and doctrinal differences something that even those who are covenantal would appreciate and be blessed by above and beyond or instead of specifically the

New Covenant unique teachings and If if each of you want to take a very brief time to answer that why don't we start with Gary George since we haven't?

Heard from him in a while. Are you there Gary? Gary George, are you there?

Well, I guess we'll go to a Gary Scott. I don't know what happened to Gary George I Would say that one of the things that that John did well is contributed in his own way to biblical theology that instead of just Systematic theology and putting all of these things together

He worked carefully through the various sections of Scripture his work on the four seeds of Abraham is an excellent example of Biblical theology of Trying to follow the text and put the pieces together and not force it into a system and so I think that one of the things that I valued about John is he didn't start with the system and Then make the various text of Scripture fit in that system

He really started out with the text of Scripture and Then the system emerged from that and that's why it took a while to develop

That's why in some ways it was underdeveloped in areas and maybe overdeveloped in areas

And it took other people to come along and fill in some of the blanks

And so I think one of the great values and an appreciation for biblical theology

Is not simply the It's not cornered by those who believe in covenant theology

But it's valued by everyone that wants to hear

God speak and understand what God is Communicated to us in his word, so I think that's one of the long time legacies of John's ministry that Has been appreciated and will continue to be appreciated

You know in the sermons and the writings and the things that he's left behind Praise God anything to add

Bill Sasser Well, I agree with Gary One cannot go back to The whole historical context, but I remember when

I was on a conference, and it was a conference attended by Men of like minds and women of like minds who believed in the sovereign of grace of God, but People were talking we all use these terms.

We use the term Calvinism. We use the term Arminianism We use the term Sabellianism whatever and the point that I made

Was this I said somebody said well Bill If you don't want to be called a

Calvinist, and you don't want to be caught What do you want to be called? I said, how about Biblicist? I said, let's use the term

Biblicist and I think that's what Gary is saying is he's absolutely right

John began with the text of Scripture and traced that and then the theological

Nuances and everything fell into place rather than beginning with a system and trying to defend the system or trying to defrock a system

He simply began with the scripture and And I think that was exactly

I agree exactly with that and that makes him and makes me I hope a Biblicist may seem a simple term everybody probably claims to be that but I prefer that over other

Terms that are popular such as Calvinist. There's a lot of reformed

Baptist brethren Who are my brothers, and I have been my friends for years and years and years, but I think it's inconsistent to be a

Sabbatarian and and come from a Baptistic background and John Calvin who we thank the

Lord for the Lord using him in his time But he was a Sabbatarian, and I told those fellows in those days.

I said you know The Calvinism is not just a soteriological view.

It's not just about salvation. It's a whole world view It's a it's a view that encompasses everything in life

And I'd rather be very simple and just approach it through the Biblicist viewpoint

Rather than in fact. I told of this I said I appreciate John Calvin, but Salvation is not spelled j -o -h -n -c -a -l -v -i -n

Salvation is spelled j -e -s -u -s -c -h -r -i -s -t Jesus Christ is salvation

This is life eternal that they know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent

And I think that's where we need to start and then I think this Gary's right.

We really shouldn't talk about systematic theology, but this new covenant perspective once we believe is what the scripture teaches

Naturally comes out of this once you really just look at the scripture for the scripture's sake and get

These systems out of your mind, and let's see what does the Bible actually teach here? And By the way, we have a listener who is clarifying or helping my failing memory here we have

John and Bangor Maine who said The British brother in Christ who is a

Covenantal Reformed Baptist pastor who John invited to preach at the

John Bunyan conference Was the late William Payne? Thank you very much.

Thank you very much for that reminder Author of what is a Reformed Baptist Church? I remember being riveted by brother

Payne's message there at the Bunyan conference just another Inquiry to see if our brother

Gary George has returned. Are you there Gary George? I guess I asked you a question and there was dead silence

Well, I want When you're among these towering brothers you feel as if you ought to give place to them

So not what not when the host asks you a question I Why don't you give us some of your own personal

Either tribute to John or anecdotes, whatever you'd care to say To pay tribute to this brother that we all love so dearly

Well, I could be with John I think stuck out the most in my mind and I think this is really the heart of his ministry

Was the exaltation of Christ and so many times he would make reference to the

Mount of Transfiguration Where Moses and Elijah appeared and then the final words were from the father here ye him

And you know, it was it was all about Christ and that's why some of John's writings

But I say unto you fun. For instance one of his earlier ones Was with a strong tempers emphasis on Moses says but I say

Moses says but I say and there is this Superiority, of course, I think all of us recognize with with with Jesus Christ being in the new covenant era

And of course inaugurating it but it's it's the zenith of scriptures God happened these last days spoken unto us by his son and so John's Christology I think reached

Such a focal point that that was really the heart of what I think he wanted to communicate and so everything sort of fell under the

Lordship of Jesus and it was really a His desire to want to exalt the name of Christ and to place the highest emphasis on the teachings of the

Lord Jesus which he believed believed Didn't simply rubber -stamp Moses's teaching but rather Exceeded them in the sense that the bar was raised higher

So some of the criticisms of John and John's teaching was that he was anti -nomian or promoting

Antinomianism and I think it's just the opposite to tell you the truth. Although he certainly

Advocated liberty and liberty of conscience. He nevertheless believed that we

As New Covenant people obviously brought into the fold at this time in redemptive history

Have an allegiance to Christ that must be maintained To the highest degree and Jesus is

Lord and when we claim him as Lord There's a desire to be obedient to love the Lord to love the word to follow in his footsteps.

So It's just sort of a shame that he sort of had a label to some degree

Promoting antinomianism which in reality, I think it was just the opposite. I think he was promoting truth love grace all all under the

Lordship of Christ, yes, and of course the the label antinomian conjures up thoughts of people teaching that you can have a

Repentant less Christianity and that could be nothing to be farther from the truth from what I remember at the

John Bunyan conferences That it was instilled with in me that in unison the teachers and speakers there all believed that repentance was a necessary Identifying marker of somebody that was truly regenerate and of course we all sin.

None of us are going to be perfect in this life until we enter into glory with Christ for eternity, but one thing that I I Remembered being from Covenantal Reformed Baptist Churches all my life other than when

I was a Roman Catholic before my salvation Is that they that was a definite area that seemed to be agreed upon Lordship salvation as that has been nicknamed and the the importance of repentance not just being something that is

Some side benefit to Christianity, but something that is a key Teaching that that we are to command everyone to repent would any of you disagree with anything

I just said No, I think I would just sum it up by saying it is the love of Christ that constrains us and not the letter of the law and Chris can go ahead

Gary. Can I can I make one comment here? Years ago. I wrote this.

I just looked this up years ago. I wrote this to someone and I was describing kind of my pilgrimage and I said being theologically

Misinformed I was doctrinally Deformed when I was informed by Paul's teaching as explained by John Riesinger My theology was transformed and I became reformed now

I conformed to tulip theology so that I can perform my role as one of God's elect now

At the heart of that is one of the things that John did so well

Was he set out the truth of election? and I think that someone mentioned earlier the series of messages that he did on that and Whether you come from a radical new covenant position a moderate position

If you come from a covenantal position a more dogmatic

Westminster position Everyone would resonate with John's Teaching and preaching in terms of what a great benefit

What a great blessing to be one of the elect of God's people and be adopted into his family

And I think that transcends any of the narrow theological secondary tertiary divisions that we're talking about Amen and we have to go to our final break now it's gonna be a lot briefer than the last break and So if you want to ask a question or pay your own tribute to John Riesinger before we run out of time do it

Now or forever hold your peace Chris Arnson at gmail .com is our email address Chris Arnson at gmail .com

and as always give us your first name city and state and country of residence If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, don't go away

We'll be right back after these messages As Host of iron sharpens iron radio,

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Welcome back. And this is our final few moments of the tribute to John Riesinger today and I just want to make sure that I immediately give all the contact information that you need not only to Get in touch with our guests, but also to attend the upcoming conference

First of all, if you want to attend the 2019 John Bunyan Conference of Tennessee in Franklin, Tennessee This coming

Sunday through Wednesday, June 23rd through the 26th the website is pt -in ct -org pt -in ct -org and if you want to ever pay a visit to a sovereign grace

Chapel in Massachusetts The website is sovereign grace ma the abbreviation for Massachusetts org sovereign grace ma org if you ever want to pay a visit to Grace Church at Franklin, Tennessee.

That website is Grace Church Franklin org Grace Church Franklin org and if you want to find out more about cross theater the ministry of Gary L Scott go to cross theater org cross theater org and keep in mind

That theater is spelt in the fancy way with an r e at the end. Not he are So, thank you all of you for being our guest today

If you could each take no more than 30 seconds to conclude With a word to our listeners that you most want etched in their hearts and minds and let's start with you

Gary Scott God is most glorified in us when we are engaged in the life

The the joy the fellowship that he's offered to us in Christ John Riesinger not only influenced other people but there was a joy

There was a life there was a sense of Christ in him that brought blessing to my

Life to my family's life my family loves John as I do and I think to many others so I thank

God for The example and the model of one who walked with Christ.

Amen and Gary George if you could now about 30 seconds The first time

I met John I said John explain to me. What is new covenant theology? And he said this dispensationalism cuts the two

Testaments in half He says covenant theology Plains the two Testaments out and he says new covenant

Theology does neither that was a launching pad for me to investigate more these doctrines that John Was so powerfully and clearly enunciated in the years to come and in his books

So that's what got me going on thinking of the merits of new covenant theology and Bill Sasser Well, I would say about John that he fought a good fight he finished the course he left here in faith

He told my wife and I when we visited him I'm hoping I can just go to sleep and wake up in glory.

And I think that's exactly I think the Lord granted that wish and then I also so I'm so thankful for John for his influence on me and all so many people and I'm thankful for you

Chris for your radio program Very unusual program and I hope the

Lord will bless you and supply all of your needs According to his riches in Christ Jesus. Thank you so much and like to invite anybody who can

I would like to to attend The conference beginning this Sunday the 23rd and going through Wednesday and we'll be glad to have you.

Amen. And why I thank all of you for being on the program today I look forward to many future return visits as guests of mine on our trip inside radio

I want to thank everybody who listened and I hope you all always Remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater