July 14, 2015 ISI Radio Show with Tony Miano on “Dispelling the Myth that Calvinism Hinders Evangelistic Zeal”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host Chris Arnton. Good afternoon

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth via live streaming.

This is Chris Arntz and your host of Iron Sharpens Iron wishing you all a happy Tuesday and I'm so delighted that we have for the very first time as our guest today in Iron Sharpens Iron, Tony Miano.

Some of you may know that Jeff Rose of the Herald Society and of Jeremiah Cry Ministry was originally scheduled to be our guest today to talk about the theme,

Dispelling the Myth that Calvinism Hinders Evangelistic Zeal. Well Jeff had an unexpected employment obligation that he had to take care of today and therefore he asked me to get

Tony Miano to fill in for him and I have wanted to get Tony on my program providentially anyway ever since meeting him at the

Herald Society conference back in Jackson, Florida or should I say down in Jackson, Florida back in April and I'm delighted that we have this opportunity today to welcome you to Iron Sharpens Iron, Tony Miano.

Hey it's good to be with you Chris but you know I'm a little concerned. I was listening to the intro and you mentioned having scholars and theologians on your program.

I'm trying to figure out why I'm here. Well we don't only have scholars and theologians on our program but actually you are quite a capable theologian as I have heard from the pulpit at this conference and quite a profound preacher and teacher and it is my pleasure to have you on the program to speak on the same subject that we originally had planned,

Dispelling the Myths that Calvinism Hinders Evangelistic Zeal. And I want to let our listeners know before I forget that Tony's personal website is crossencountersmin .com

that's crossencountersmin .com and if you could

Tony tell us something about Cross Encounters and tell us something about the

Herald Society. Sure. Cross Encounters Ministries is basically me and my family and a handful of supporting churches that are committed to proclaiming the gospel on the streets throughout the

United States and around the world. I've been on the preaching gospel in the open air for about 10 minutes.

Yeah see remember all of that about theologians and scholars. I have been preaching the gospel in the open air for about 10 years and from 2008 through mid 2012

I had the honor and privilege of serving alongside Ray Comfort at Living Waters Ministries and midway through 2012

I set out on my own to be on the streets full time and the

Lord has blessed me by allowing me to do that. Along the way I've joined

Jeremiah Christ's team as one of their conference speakers for the

Herald Society and the purpose of the body of Christ to encourage pastors of local churches that open air preaching is always has been and always will be an authentic and biblical way of proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ and to call all open air preachers home to the local church.

There is a growing number of evangelistic nomads out there who have left from underneath the umbrella of accountability and fellowship of local churches become laws unto themselves and are getting themselves into trouble some of them even becoming apostate in the process.

So Jeremiah Christ faithfully led by Jeff Rose one of the finest open air preachers

I think in the world today is doing what we can to unring some of the unbiblical bells that have been rung in the open air preaching community over the last decade or so and to edify and build up the body of Christ as a whole.

And I think our listeners would be interested to learn that you also have a background in law enforcement.

Tell us something about that. Yeah I do. I served as a deputy sheriff for Los Angeles County from 1987 to 2007.

The last eight years of my career in addition to serving as the deputy sheriff I was also a chaplain to our deputies on the department and and I believe the

Lord has used that career in many ways in my life not the least of which is preparing me to be out on the street preaching the gospel to those who hate

Christ and anyone who mentions his name. And that is quite a challenge for you to be out there especially since as you have already said there are nuts and heretics out there in the street and making it less comfortable for you to be preaching the gospel because of the association you may have in people's minds.

And obviously preaching the gospel is never supposed to be comfortable really but the negative baggage that does exist in fact

I was just in a local shop here in Carlisle the other day in Pennsylvania and it was actually an art gallery and the woman who owns the gallery was talking about being harassed by a street evangelist.

Now of course she could have been exaggerating the story but from what she from what she was saying that this person was basically following her and her family around and raising the voice in an inappropriate way and I have no idea what the content of what he was saying was but obviously you've got your job cut out for you there.

Before we even go on I'm going to give our email address if you have questions for Tony Miano about our theme which is dispelling the myths that Calvinism hinders evangelistic zeal.

Obviously what Tony has already said about himself should give you an indication that he has evangelistic zeal and he is a

Calvinist and for anyone to be out in the open air doing street preaching in open air evangelism obviously indicates zeal and a passion to see the lost come to Christ.

But to tell us something specifically about the next Philadelphia area

Herald Society conference that you're participating in and I am also going to be

God willing the master of ceremonies for that event. Jeff Rose extended me the gracious invitation to be the emcee and I very eagerly accepted the opportunity so tell our listeners something about that conference and the theme the specific theme of it.

Sure well for more information about the conference in general and to be able to register right now registration is $75 per person.

Folks can go to JeremiahCry .com the date for the

Philadelphia Herald Society this year and this will be our third year in Philadelphia.

The dates are October 22nd through the 24th and the theme is days of old based on Jeremiah 6 16 which says thus says the

Lord stand by the roads and look and ask for the ancient path where the good way is and walk in it and find rest for your souls and so the theme is returning to the ancient path returning to the ancient and biblical practice of proclaiming the gospel in the open air and doing it in a biblical way that lifts up Christ and not the preacher.

And again our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com chrisarnsen that's c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com

if you have a question for Tony Miano please leave or please give us your first name the city and state where you reside and the country where you reside if it's outside of the

USA chrisarnsen at gmail .com. You know as well as I do

Tony that Calvinism has a stereotype a caricature that we as Calvinists are on a regular basis slandered with that inherent to the systematic theology known as Calvinism or reform theology or the doctrines of sovereign grace inherent to it built right into the system is a destruction or a hindrance of evangelistic zeal and why do you think are the foremost reasons for that?

Well first of all I think the absolute opposite is true. I think certainly the vast majority of legitimate open air preachers that I know and men that I live and serve with all adhere to the doctrines of grace.

There are a growing number of open air preachers who adhere to the doctrines of grace in fact it is the biblical understanding of the sovereignty of God that once a

Christian comes to understand it literally sets him free to do evangelism because it is no longer he no sees it as a synergistic work where somehow

God needs his help to convert the sinner. He realizes that salvation is entirely a monergistic work of the

Lord. Salvation being of the Lord and his participation is to simply love

God and to love people knowing that God will save whom he will save using the declaration of the gospel of Jesus Christ as a means of bringing those he has already elected to genuine repentance and faith in Christ.

So it's a canard, it's a lie, it's a straw man, it's just about every negative thing you can say to suggest that those who adhere to the doctrines of grace are not evangelistic.

Those who adhere to the doctrines of grace love the doctrine of the sovereignty of God and the associated doctrines and see evangelism and in particular open air preaching as an act of worship to our kings.

And of course we should admit up front there are people who are hyper calvinists who through ignorance of not only what the bible teaches or in defiance against what the bible teaches and in ignorance of what the historical theology of those who have worn the name calvinist or who have embraced sovereign grace or reform theology and ignorance of what that has been throughout the centuries, there are people who distort these teachings and twist them and basically since they exaggerate the emphasis of the sovereignty of God to such an extent that the responsibility of man is altogether smothered, they do not compel or urge people to evangelize.

Am I right? Correct. I think the hyper calvinists like his cousin the arminian have to ignore the plain reading of scripture in order to come up with either a synergistic view of salvation or the idea that we can simply ignore all of the commands of Christ to go and make disciples, to go and preach the gospel to every creature.

And the hyper calvinists would be a very small minority of individuals from what

I gather that would call themselves sovereign grace believers or calvinists or reformed.

In fact even historically they would have been a minority, wouldn't they have? Yeah, absolutely.

I would say the hyper calvinists are a small portion. I wouldn't call them calvinists.

I think it's a misnomer to refer to someone as a hyper calvinist as if somehow hyper calvinism is a branch of calvinism.

It is unbiblical. The hyper calvinist is no calvinist at all. Right, and of course you have the enemies of calvinism frequently calling anyone who believes in the five points of calvinism a hyper calvinist, which is a slander because that is actually historic calvinism.

Yeah, in fact when I was in Calgary this last week, Chris, preaching the gospel with Fairview Baptist Church and Calgary Peacemakers during the

Calgary Stampede, a group of nomadic street preachers from Seattle came by and actually started to echo us and call us to repent for preaching the doctrines of grace, which shows how confused some of these nomads are out on the street.

And it's also interesting to see at times the websites of vehement anti -calvinists, and they will put on their websites their heroes of the faith like Charles Spurgeon, George Whitefield, John Bunyan, Jonathan Edwards, and these were all strong calvinistic men from history.

Right, and there's even one popular evangelist, Circuit Evangelist, who is a rabid

Arminian who's written a couple of books, and the chapters all begin with quotes from Spurgeon and Whitefield and other calvinists.

Well, one of the reasons that I think, in fact, when

I've had conversations with non -calvinists, and of course not all of these folks are rabid foaming at the mouth anti -calvinists, they're just people that haven't been educated about what we believe, or perhaps somebody who is inept, who claims to believe what we believe, tried to describe it to them.

But some of them, from those who I've spoken with, they take logical conclusions of things that we do believe.

Well, I should say in their minds, they take things to a logical conclusion.

First and foremost, one would be, since God is in control of whom is and who is not saved, and since God has preordained a fixed number of people before the foundations of the world whom he has chosen to save, they automatically think in their minds, well then, they must not believe that evangelism is necessary, and preaching the word of God is necessary, and giving out tracts and bibles is necessary, and teaching people the word of God is necessary, because if God has already chose them, and these people have a lottery ticket that they're unaware of in their pocket somewhere, or embedded in their mind, or wherever it may be, they will be picked by God on judgment day to enter through the gates, and everybody else, regardless of what they believe or do not believe, will be cast into hell.

Now that's just a totally erroneous and fallacious understanding of what we believe.

In fact, don't we believe that evangelizing is required because that is the means that God ordained?

Exactly. God is a God of means, and his commands are to be obeyed, regardless of how

God uses his obedient children as a means of communicating the gospel and bringing people to repentance and faith.

It is enough. It should be enough for every Christian that God has called every

Christian to evangelize the law. Regardless of what aspect of means that plays in God's predetermined eternal plan for the elect,

God says it, therefore we should do it. Period. And isn't it also true that a motivation that we have,

I know it's a motivation for me, not only is it my command from God to evangelize and fulfill the great commission as Christ has laid out for us, there is a personal interest in seeing not only the lost in general coming to Christ, but I want to experience and witness those

I love make profession and repent and come to Christ to give my own heart even that joy and comfort and peace knowing that these loved ones whose eternity

I fear and whose eternity that I sometimes lose sleep over,

I want to see them come to Christ. And if I don't evangelize them, they may indeed come to Christ, and in fact they will if they are elect, but I may never witness it, and they may perish on this earth having embraced

Christ, and I may never know it. Am I being selfish in that aspect of evangelism, wanting to see and witness it myself?

No, not at all. In fact, my prayer often before starting to preach or hand out paper missionaries or engage people in conversation on the street is,

Lord, I know you are working all the time. The Lord Jesus Christ made that clear.

The Father is always working, but we would love to see you work today in the hearts of people here on the street.

We know you're working, and we praise you and glorify you knowing that the Father, we want to praise and glorify you even more as we see you actually, through the power of your

Holy Spirit, draw men, women, children to yourself and faith in your Son Jesus Christ.

And with evangelism, again, is the best fulfillment of the two greatest commandments, to love the

Lord our God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength and to love our neighbor as ourselves. In my mind, there is no greater form of worship than to lift up the name of Jesus everywhere, all the time, regardless of the context, and there's nothing more loving we can do for another human being, and we are commanded to love our neighbor as ourselves.

There is nothing more loving we can do for another human being than to proclaim the gospel to them.

Well, isn't it interesting that even Penn Jillette, the magician and debunker of spiritualists and so on, who actually gets magicians very often upset because he explains how they do their tricks.

Well, Penn Jillette, who is a notorious atheist and quite a vulgar man at times, he even admitted in a recent podcast of his, well,

I don't know how recent the podcast was, but I just saw it recently, that he recognizes that when

Christians evangelize him, they are doing that because they love him and care about his soul, and he said, how much do you have to hate somebody to believe that Christ is required for eternal life and to prevent eternal damnation?

How much do you have to hate somebody not to tell them about this? Right, and oftentimes when I'm asked to speak in churches about evangelism,

I don't bring training. I try to bring conviction to the body of Christ, but the reality is that it's not training they lack, it's love they lack.

For the Christian who is not proclaiming the people love themselves more than they love

God and love the law because the fears that they hang on to and the excuses they hang on to are all about self -preservation and has nothing whatsoever to do with a care or concern for the law or ultimately a love for Christ.

We do have our first question from a listener in Rugby, England. We have

Mike writing to us from Rugby, England, and his question is, do you think it's a misunderstanding of the use of means that is to do with accusation of lack of zeal?

And I'm not really 100 % sure what Mike means by that question, but the thing that comes to my mind is he could be, and in fact

Mike can write again if I'm misrepresenting his question, he could be referring to the fact that those who do not believe in the doctrines of grace often use means like altar calls and other types of things like that and when they see that a

Calvinistic church very often, although not always, but very often

Calvinistic churches do not have altar calls where they invite people forward to kneel and recite a prayer in order to give them a peace of mind that they are saved.

When Arminians or those who are not Calvinists witness us neglect to do that or when they witness that that is absent from our worship services, they think, well see these people aren't even compassionate for the lost.

They don't have any zeal to evangelize. And perhaps I'm wrong about the way I'm reading into that question, but if you could comment.

Sure, well yeah, if that is the way Mike intended it, even if he didn't,

I think you bring up a good point. Things like the sinner's prayer and friendship evangelism are not means of God, they are gimmicks of men.

There is no biblical support for the way that friendship evangelism is practiced today by most

Christians. There is no biblical support whatsoever, not a shred, not a single verse, for leading someone in a prayer and then giving them assurance of salvation because they uttered that prayer.

These are gimmicks created by men, created by evangelicals.

These are not means. There is one mean that God uses and that is the proclamation of the gospel.

We are not ashamed of the gospel, Romans 116 tells us, for it is the power of God for salvation.

It, it alone, it's the only thing, it's the only means. Now we can communicate that in different ways.

We can do that in a conversation, we can do that in written form online or in a letter or through a gospel tract, we can do that from a pulpit, we can do that standing on a rock in the middle of a park or a bench on a sidewalk.

There are different vehicles for communicating the means, the gospel, which is the power of God for salvation.

But, but those are vehicles, those are not means. And certainly things, traditions of men, gimmicks of men like the sinner's prayer and friendship evangelism as it's most commonly practiced, certainly are not means.

But this, this mindset, Chris, comes from an overwhelming majority of professing

Christians being duped into believing that salvation is a synergistic work between God and man.

And because they believe man cooperates in salvation, they also believe that God needs our help in the communication of the gospel, that we have to somehow make

Christ look lovely to those who hate him, as if we as sinful human beings, but for the redemption of Christ, can in any way make the lovely one, the one who is most beautiful, the one who is perfect, the one who is holy, look better than he already is to one who is dead in their sin and spiritually blind.

And quite frankly, Chris, I think it's blasphemous. I think this idea of synergism, that God needs the help of Christians to make the gospel palatable, and that man in some way has to help himself to assist

God in salvation. I think both of those ideas are blasphemous constructs. Now, I know that not all non -Calvinists would dare say something this heretical from the pulpit, but I have heard it, where I have heard on a radio preachers pouring their guts out and saying,

God has done everything he can do. There's nothing else

God can do. It's all up to you now.

You must decide to follow Christ and believe in him, and your eternal destiny is in your hands.

I mean, I'm utterly shocked when I hear that kind of presentation of the so -called gospel, and it makes me think, how on earth do these people actually have peace in their hearts and minds, thinking that we are in control of salvation?

Chris, it's not unlike the heretical analogies for salvation that float around American evangelicalism, like the idea that Jesus is a life preserver and you simply have to grab on and be pulled in.

The reality is that the person in the water is dead. They're floating face down, not breathing, clinically dead.

They can't grab on to the life preserver because they are dead. They need a grappling hook to be tossed over them so that they can be drugged out of the water, and then there is intervention from an outside source, such as CPR, to bring that person, to resuscitate that person, to bring them back to life.

And without that introduction of an outside source, the person remains dead.

You know, Chris, as a deputy sheriff, I had opportunity on a few occasions to perform CPR while working patrol, and I can assure you of this.

The person laying dead in their driveway, having a gunshot wound in their chest, they did nothing to assist me with CPR.

And at the same time, there was nothing they could do to prevent me from performing

CPR. They weren't lying there, clinically dead, saying, no, I don't want to come back to life.

I'm not going to start breathing. My heart's not going to start beating again if you pump on it. They had no say in the matter.

And the same is true with salvation. God causes a person to be born again, 1

Peter 1 .3. He causes them to be born from above. Man is nothing more than a recipient of God's grace.

He is not a participant in his salvation. We're going to be going to a break right now.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Tony Miano on our theme, Dispelling the

Myth that Calvinism Hinders Evangelistic Zeal, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please include your first name, city and state of residence, and country of residence if outside the

USA. And by the way, Tony, Mike from Rugby England emailed back and said that I was correct in my interpretation of his question.

And one thing that you can mill over in your mind while we go to a break is

I have personally witnessed from non -Calvinists a misconception or a false interpretation of what we understand to be the order salutis, the order of salvation.

They believe that when we say regeneration precedes faith, that there are regenerate people walking around for days, weeks, months, and years who don't have any faith.

And then one day they get faith after like walking around like a zombie, if you will, being regenerate but without faith.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you've just tuned into Iron Sharpens Iron, our guest today is Tony Miano and he is an open air preacher or evangelist.

We have been discussing the theme, dispelling the myths that Calvinism hinders evangelistic zeal.

And by the way, you can always learn more about our guest Tony at crossencountersmin .com.

Crossencountersmin .com is Tony's personal website to learn more about him later. Our email address here is

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com

if you have any questions for Tony on our theme today. And Tony, before the break

I brought up the Ordo Salutis, which is a fancy way of saying the order of salvation.

And as you know, Reformed people throughout the centuries or Calvinists or Sovereign Grace believing Christians believe that regeneration precedes faith.

And therefore a lot of people who misunderstand what we believe think that teaching insinuates the idea that people are walking around as regenerate people, born again

Christians without even knowing it and without having any faith. And that's just a falsehood, isn't it?

Yeah, it's absolutely ridiculous. In fact, we have a wonderful illustration in the

Gospel of John of a really a right way of looking at the order of salvation. And we find it in John chapter 11, beginning in verse 38, then

Jesus deeply moved in that phrase there, deeply moved in the Greek has also been used to express the snort of a horse or shaking with indignation.

So he wasn't just deeply moved, swooning, you know, awe, what a wonderful opportunity for me, or I feel bad for the people.

But he was likely shaking with the indignation of the lack of faith of the people around him.

Then Jesus deeply moved again came to the tomb, it was a cave and a stone laid against it.

And Jesus said, take away the stone. Martha, the sister of the dead man, said to him, Lord, by this time, there will be an odor for he has been dead for days.

Jesus said to her, did I not tell you that if you believed you would see the glory of God.

So they took away the stone and Jesus lifted up his eyes and said, Father, I thank you that you have heard me.

I knew that you always hear me. But I said this on account of the people standing around that they may believe that you sent me.

When he said these things, he cried out with a loud voice, Lazarus, come out. The man who had died came out his hands and feet bound with strips and his face wrapped with a cloth.

And Jesus said to them, unbind him and let him go. Amen, Lazarus.

Chris Lazarus could not respond to Jesus's command to come out until Jesus made him alive.

Amen. Okay. And the same is true with salvation. We cannot respond to the gospel call to repent and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ unless we have been made alive in our own nature, in our sinful nature.

We can only act according to our nature, and that is to sin and to be at enmity with God and to hate

God and to want to flee from God and want nothing to do with him whatsoever. Now, now,

Chris, when Lazarus was made alive and he received that command to come out, he didn't sit there in the tomb for four or five days.

You know, I'm starting to get used to the smell in this

Judean desert. You know, I think I'm going to give this some thought, maybe stir up a little more sympathy for myself, maybe decide if this is the best thing for me, and I'll just let

Jesus wait and I'll come out when I'm good and ready. No, the moment Jesus called him, he came out of that tomb, and the moment that someone is caused to be born again, they repent and believe in God being sovereign over all things,

God being in control of all things, God being omnipotent, God being omniscient,

God being omnipresent. He has determined from eternity past that when each of us come to repent and to faith in Christ, we will hear the gospel of Jesus Christ when he has caused us to be born again.

And so there are not Christians running around living a life in wanton rebellion against Christ while at the same time being born again.

That is contrary to everything that 1 John teaches regarding a genuine follower of Jesus Christ.

That is contrary to what the writer of Hebrews teaches in Hebrews 6 and Hebrews chapter 10.

If we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains an expectation for forgiveness.

So for those that God has determined to save from eternity past, those whom

God has elected, he uses the means of the proclamation of the gospel to bring them to repentance and faith the moment he has regenerated them and caused them to be born again.

Amen. And another interesting scenario in regard to the doctrines of grace or Calvinism uh igniting zeal and increasing the zeal of a

Christian to spread the gospel and Arminianism doing the opposite at times is in the area of the mission field because you have

Calvinists who because they know God has a people that he has elected with certainty from every people and tribe and nation and tongue he knows that wherever he goes on this earth to evangelize and become a missionary that there will be

God's people eventually who will hear the word and come forth. It might not even be in the lifetime of that individual.

It may be the seeds that he planted that raised up the dead to newness of life and then you have on the opposite end of the spectrum you have the

Arminian mission boards and churches that if they don't see numbers soon enough when they send a missionary out many of them will yank that person out of that place.

Well and Chris much of what the Arminian camp and mission boards and denominations are sending out today are not missionaries they are vacationaries and I met one just the other day in Calgary.

We were out preaching at one of the train stations there in Calgary. A very nice young man from Arkansas named

Ethan came up and said hey have you been out here doing this all day and said yes so we're out proclaiming the gospel and he says well

I'm a missionary and he's with the Southern Baptist organization and he says

I'm up here on a mission trip with a group of people and I said what is your mission and his mission was and this has become so common his mission was to love on people love on people and I quickly explained to this young man that nobody needs your love nobody needs your friendship nobody needs you

Ethan they need Christ they don't need you and he said well our leaders told us don't you dare share the gospel until you know the color of the eyes of the person in front of you and it's this kind of ridiculous man -centered synergistic

Arminian way of thinking that is producing not missionaries but vacationaries who believe that they can go to Paris and hang out for a week and make

Jesus so attractive by their mere presence that people are going to decide on their own to come to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ and that's just how blasphemous these mission boards have become now

Chris the interesting thing is that Arminianism synergism set

Christians up to not share the gospel because it is a works righteousness system the

Christian is told you've got to be all things to all people you can't speak to people who are pierced unless you're pierced you can't speak to people who are tattooed unless you're tattooed you better go figure out how to have a microbrewery in your mommy's basement so you can relate to those who do and you better have answers to the question and you better be friendly and you better be whimsical and you better not be offensive and the

Christian hears this litany of works righteousness and he or she says to him or herself I'm not even going to bother trying

I don't want to fail I don't want to fail but once once a

Christian comes to a biblical understanding of the doctrines of grace and the sovereignty of God they are freed to do evangelism because they realize they understand that the lost salvation is not contingent upon them at all they are free to simply go out and obey

God and to love God and to love people and they can do it with joy because whether or not the people hear and respond hear and repent and believe is entirely up to God and not to them and in fact whenever you see a reformed church or a church that identifies itself as Calvinist doing things like you just mentioned because they do they're really forgetting what their theology really teaches and they're adopting the

Arminian methodology aren't they that's right in fact when it comes to evangelism

Chris American evangelicalism has never cut the umbilical cord from Rome because American evangelicalism when it comes to missions and evangelism holds the tradition of men higher than the word of God itself

I've seen that in some of the and some churches that have them the best doctrine and some of the best preaching and teaching from the pulpit they're still hanging on uh to synergistic uh

Arminianism when it comes to missions and evangelism and doing the things that are known as seeker sensitive outreaches and and uh conforming the way that they worship especially in regard to music to exactly what loves and wants to hear well and any church that does that Chris any church that caters worship to the law is offering up strange fire to God and should flee because the wrath of God likely abides upon them because the unbeliever cannot participate in worship they can sing songs they could be moved emotionally but they can't engage in worship because they don't know the

God we are worshiping and so to take that which is holy and profane it to entertain lost people is the epitome of offering up strange fire and it might be a surprise to many of our listeners to know that William Carey the father of modern missions uh was a thoroughgoing

Calvinist and so was many of the men that you may have as heroes including much to the surprise of many of our southern baptist brethren all of the founders of the southern baptist convention in the 19th century we're going to our final break right now uh if you'd like to join us on the air this is your last opportunity to shoot us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com Don't go away, we'll be right back with Tony Miano and dispelling the myth that Calvinism hinders evangelistic zeal.

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This is Chris Arns. And if you've just tuned us in, Iron Sharpens Iron's guest today is

Tony Miano, who is an open air evangelist and author. And he is discussing today dispelling the myth that Calvinism hinders or even destroys evangelistic zeal.

We are setting forth the truth that in reality and historically, the opposite has been true.

And we do have a listener in Alton, Illinois, and I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing the name of your city,

Alton, or Alton, Illinois. I see several... That's Tom, by the way, in Alton, Illinois.

I see several problems with the growing open air preaching community. Lack of theological and biblical preparation.

Lack of etiquette and discernment when it comes to open air. Can you comment how you would help prepare men to better serve

Christ on the streets? Excellent. Yeah, that is an excellent question,

Tom. Thank you very much for bringing that question up. And really, Chris, that is the reason the

Herald Society exists, to return open air preachers to a biblical ecclesiology as well as a biblical soteriology with the doctrines of grace.

The problem over the years, Chris, has been that open air preachers have been qualifying men to serve as open air preachers, undermining the authority of the local church to do that.

We have, in our zeal, in our zeal to get out there and to get as many people out there on the streets to declare the truths of Scripture on the streets, we have been saying, come one, come all, come and preach.

And in many cases, and I have seen it happen too many times, where a man whose church would say, no, this man is not qualified, he is having issues at home, he is not serving here at the church, he is a new convert, he has got issues with pride, whatever it may be, and now there is a group of open air preachers puffing him up even further by saying, come on, join us, come out on the streets and get up on the bus and preach the gospel.

And in doing that, we are undermining the work of the pastors and elders in that particular person's life.

So, to answer Tom's question, to make the open air preaching community more biblical, the open air preaching community has to return to the local church, has to submit to the authority of the local church, has to be vetted by the authority of the local church, has to be qualified by the authority of the local church.

And Chris, I would go as far as to say that any man who wants to be an open air preacher, even if he doesn't aspire to the role of elder, should meet the qualifications of an elder to preach the gospel in the open air.

Now, that often sends chills up the spine of some

Christians and makes them cringe. I don't understand why, because what we have in the pastoral epistles is the litmus test for what a man in gospel ministry should look like.

Any other standard is a standard created by the opinions of men and is always going to be less than what scripture ascribes to the man who would presume to be a leader in the church or a representative, a public representative of Christ.

The open air preacher must know how to teach. He must be theologically sound.

He must be well studied. He must be able to answer for the hope that is in them with gentleness and respect.

He must have the wisdom and discernment to know when to answer a fool and when not to answer a fool in his folly.

A man who wants to open air preach should not be a new convert, just like a new convert shouldn't be an elder in the church, for all of the same reasons.

And so, again, to Tom's question, what is going to mature the open air preaching community?

What is going to give the open air preaching more integrity? What is going to give the open air preaching community more strength and more fidelity to the

Word of God is returning and submitting to the leadership of the local church. Yeah, I'm sure that a lot of people who are open air preachers are itching at the opportunity to play preacher because their own churches, if they had any, would never allow them behind the pulpit, and they're itching to say things that their own pastors or elders or that pastors who are faithful to the scriptures would have never allowed them to say behind a pulpit of a church.

Exactly, and so what they do is instead of being humble and submissive to the leadership that God has placed over them, they leave the local church, they go form their own church, they qualify themselves, they get their other open air preaching buddies to say, yeah, we think you're qualified to serve as a pastor or an elder, they become a law unto themselves, they become a nomadic tribe, and as we've seen in so many cases, they buy into the heresies of moral government theology, of open theism, of full -on

Pelagianism, and they shipwreck their faith and become apostates. We have

Jim in Noonan, Georgia who asks, what do you say to a pastor who says that Calvinism and Arminianism are both taught in scripture?

Well other than recommending a psychiatrist, I think perhaps if anyone says that, what they're probably saying, although in a very poor way, that both the sovereignty of God and responsibility of man are taught in scripture.

Couldn't that be Yeah, yeah, and I would hope that's what the pastor's saying. In fact, I believe it was

Spurgeon who explained it best when he was asked, how do you reconcile the sovereignty of God with the responsibility of man?

And he said, I don't. I don't need to reconcile friends. We have

Davis in Piggott, Arkansas asking, how important is it for small -town

America to be raising up evangelists? And if a pastor in small -town America happens to be listening and is generally unsure of open -air evangelism, but he does desire to see evangelists raised up out of his church, but is unsure about how to start that, how would you answer him?

Well, that's kind of a complicated question. It's a great question, and I know our brother,

David, godly brother, love him very much. He's working hard down there in Arkansas to bring the gospel to a lot of people, and Davis and I talk about this often.

The pastor who is wary about open -air preaching has already sacrificed the historicity and the biblical nature of open -air preaching to the spirit of the age and to the desires of men.

What I mean by that is that, look, we have Benny Hinn standing in a pulpit. We have Paula White standing in a pulpit.

We have Rick Warren standing in a pulpit. We have Joel Osteen standing in a pulpit. When are all these good pastors going to leave their pulpits because there are bad men and women standing in pulpits?

Of course, they would think that ridiculous. Why would we ever give up that ground? Well, then in response, I would say that, pastor, why are we giving up the ground of the street corner?

Why are we giving up the ground of the public park? Why are we giving up the ground of the train station and the college campus and the large -scale event to these heretics and street thugs and nomads?

Why are we giving up the ground to the liars when we should be loving the people enough to take the truth to them, no matter how the law can mischaracterize us as open -air preachers?

I would begin there. We have Mike from Fort Myers, Florida.

Hello, Tony. In your experience, have some reformed churches not done enough evangelistic outreach in their communities in order to dispel the myth that Calvinism hinders evangelistic zeal?

Additionally, I wish to see that reformed churches, whether Baptist, Presbyterian, United Reformed, et cetera, in particular communities, would join together in evangelism efforts.

How come we don't see this happening? Well, you do in some areas see this happening, but very good questions, and obviously we addressed one of them already.

There are people who are either hyper -Calvinists in their profession by their theology or just because they're lazy and act like hyper -Calvinists.

Right, and another problem, of course, Chris, is that the church doesn't play well together.

Too many pastors are concerned about whose name and whose church's name is going to be at the top of the marquee if churches get together to do something.

You know, are we going to direct people to my church? Are we going to direct people to your church? Are we going to direct people to the third church?

Sadly, even in some really good churches, there's too much of a my -kingdom mentality among the leadership.

We got to keep the lights on and people in the seat, and so we're not going to partner with other churches in the off chance that our people will think that's a better church or new converts will go to their church instead of ours.

You know, we still operate in this flesh, in this flesh that we call our body, so unfortunately that's a problem, and again,

I think you hit it on the head, Chris, that even in the best theological churches, there is a great love for doctrine, and a great love for study, and a great love for teaching, and a great love for apologetics, and a great love for debate, but not nearly enough love for Christ, and I believe,

Chris, I believe that what we see in Revelation of the church of Ephesus, when

Jesus says, you have left your first love, you'll notice that he commends the church for many things, so this is not an apostate church.

This is not a church that has rebelled against Christ and has left Christ, but yet he rebukes them twice and calls them to repent twice for leaving their first love, and I believe,

Chris, that what he's telling them is, you've left your first love, which is me, because you're not out there telling people about me.

Amen. You're doing you're doing wonderful things. You're standing for the truth.

You're casting out false teachers. You're taking care of one another's needs. I commend you for all of these things, but you're not doing evangelism anymore.

You've already, in the first century, they were getting comfortable in their Christian bubble and forgetting about the fact that loving

God and loving people means we go and tell them about the gospel. Amen. Well, we're out of time, Tony. I thank you so much for being our guest today, especially since you had little notice to be on, and I look forward to having you back very quickly, and in fact, starting next week,

I have a big announcement. Iron Sharpens Iron is being extended daily to two hours by the requests and wishes of the leading -edge radio network carrying our program.

They're so excited about what we're doing that they want to see us on the air or hear us on the air two hours every day, and Tony's website is crossencountersmin .com,

crossencountersmin .com. Don't forget a couple of our sponsors that you can order

Tony's books from and tracks from. You have Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, one of our sponsors, cvbbs .com,

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Why not go to aomin .org right now and listen to James White's dividing line, starting at 5 p .m.

Eastern, aomin .org, starting at 5 today. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater