105. Interview with Martin Selbrede (How the Bible PROVES Postmillennialism PART 1)

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Hello everyone and welcome back to the podcast where we prod the sheep and beat the wolf this episode 105

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My interview with Martin Selbretti part one Hello everyone and welcome back to the podcast where we prod the sheep and beat the wolf

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My name is Kendall and this is a very special episode today where we're talking to Martin Selbretti Who is the vice president of the

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Calcedon? Foundation senior researcher for the organization's ongoing work of Christian scholarship

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He's written numerous articles essays position papers For faith for all life

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Calcedon report the Journal of Christian Reconstruction ism, and I'm probably missing some but that's what the Google told me

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Beyond your professional life brother. I know that doesn't encapsulate all of you. Who is Martin Selbretti?

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Well, I'm just a Christian who takes seriously the whole word account We'll go over to God the whole counsel of God and I think every single iota of it every jot and tittle

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This is important, and I don't plan to Soft pedal any of it.

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I think all of it is needs to be peddled at the metal So that's that's my view is that we don't apply the whole word of God I think we're called to do that and I think

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Paul makes it clear The only reason that he's guiltless of the blood of any man is because he has not failed or shunned to proclaim unto them the whole counsel of God And I think when you dig into the whole council of God you find the truth and I think that truth is

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Laced throughout the entire scripture from Genesis to Revelation And so that's that's kind of the mission because too many people have a truncated

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Bible, you know, look honey. We shrunk the Bible problem prevails in our culture in the evangelical churches and so Slipping away at the relevance of the scriptures means that you substitute something else as and that's usually the council of man and man's word is always provisional and is not infallible and in fact, it tends to be in rebellion against God's Word and So therefore it's big business to decline to take

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God's lead and God's commands set them aside. They're not for us We can make our own rules and I think that's the essence of Genesis 3 5

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So the Chalcedon foundation as we call it That's kind of like our starting point

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Genesis 3 5 explains pretty much everything that's wrong with today's world everyone wants to be a god and determine good and evil for themselves and God's in the business of actually reversing that entire

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Transaction that took place in the Garden of Eden Yeah, that's so good.

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I already know that we're gonna be friends Just by the way, you used honey. I shrunk the kids as a reference. That was awesome

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Brother I've been in a series right now called a practical post -millennialism and our audience has been kind of walking through What is post -millennialism mean and and to try to make that practical and try to make that helpful for everyone

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We started off in the first part of this by just kind of defining what? The wrong views are like historic premillennialism dispensationalism amillennialism and while we have a lot in common with amillennialism in some ways

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We did differentiate how they get this wrong especially when it comes to the kingdom coming on earth as it is in heaven,

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I think is a major deficiency in their view, but I'm excited to have you on today because You're a

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Bible guy. You're a Bible scholar and and I just want to sit back and have us Hear the biblical case for post -millennialism.

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There's some other things I want to ask as well But I think we should start there. What what is post -millennialism and how is it the biblical view?

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It's really the position that the curse was to be reversed in time in history that does not remain for the eternal state for everything to be settled and Rectified but rather the work of the

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Messiah was to lead justice to victory, which is the way it's put in Matthew 12 20 he shall lead justice to victory and that victory is here in time in in history

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Not pie in the sky by and by Rather that the government of Christ is a forever expanding

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Which is kind of explicitly stated in Isaiah 9 7 of the increase of his government and a peace there shall be no end

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So you have this perpetually increasing peace and government of Christ That's penetrating the world like the leaven until at last by the power of it shall all be leavened

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That's the picture that Jesus himself paints in Matthew 13 that this

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Leaven apparently lost it says in three whole measures a meal by the power of it leavens the entire thing

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Everything is completely penetrated and transformed point of leaven is to transform So we're talking about the transformation of the world

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But by tools that the world regards as foolishness the gospel right the preaching of the gospel and yet it's the power of God unto

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Salvation and so we're saying that the Holy Spirit is competent to convert the entire world

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He was sent to convert the world to convict the world of sin and unrighteousness And our view is that the Holy Spirit is able to do this and was sent to do this

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And in fact Jesus when people say well, Jesus has to come back. Jesus had a different attitude He says it's expedient for me to go and him to come because he's got a big job to do

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He's got the worst job of all he has to dwell inside a sinful filthy People whose hearts are corrupt and convert them and lead them into all truth

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So there's a mission of the Holy Spirit going on here And so it's really a doctrine of the Holy Spirit and his work in the world

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He's being poured out upon all flesh and that process has not yet been exhausted it's not exhausted until the

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Holy Spirit has been poured out upon all flesh as Joel predicted and Peter appeals to the same thing in Acts 2 right and that process must continue until it has no more

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No one else to pour on so you get to the point there where the New Covenant as Jeremiah puts it no man need tell his neighbor saying know the

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Lord for they shall all know the Lord from the least to the greatest and Upon their hearts the law of God is written law on their hearts law on their minds

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So the great the New Covenant speaks about the law of God and the extent of the gospel transformation of this world

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So when people say no, no, no, we this is not the time for these things to happen They inverted they say

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Jesus needs to return and I think this is a mistake. This is an insult to the Holy Spirit for openers

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When we say down here we lose which a famous pastor has already asserted the same thing

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Postmillennialist says no down here we win and we're supposed to win, you know, we were more than conquerors

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In fact is the phrasing used in Scripture Hardly less than conquerors. That's not going to cut the mustard. So we need to move forward

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Without apology and and with confidence. It does not matter what you see you see this is the problem Postmillenialism obviously is a doctrine that says we walk by faith because you're not gonna see it

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You're going to we're in the middle of the stream and that that stream is you can't tell and see the end of it except if you in faith that Scripture teaches that this is going to end in a victory

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So if you look around you you will get like Peter you look at the storm and the winds you can start to sink

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But if you actually look at Christ and what he said he's going to do He says if I be lifted up out of the earth, I will draw all men unto myself

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Then that promise you cling to it you cleave to it and you walk according to it and you have faith That no matter what man does what

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God does supersedes it And God has set in motion something very very powerful here in the world

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And for us to discount it and say nah the Holy Spirit's not going to cut it We have to yank it out and and start all over again

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In fact, that's the whole point of the dispensationalist system is to pull the Holy Spirit out as a failed experiment Just to grab a few brands from the fire as they say quoting

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Zechariah 3 So, yeah, we need to we think this post -malayism is the is a really an eschatology of hope that in this world

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The work of Christ continues until it has its full effect and that full effect is described in Scripture Over and over again in the

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Old Testament and the New Behold all the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our Lord and his

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Christ and that's in Revelation 11 15 it's it's blatantly obvious that this is the endgame that we're heading toward and We'll get into some more details how this plays out in Isaiah 19 and other locations in Scripture That target and describe exactly what's coming down the pike

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I can't tell you if it's next week or next century But I knew don't I know for certainty it's coming and the post -millennialist therefore has faith that the promises of God have not run

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Out that they're still rich in full and in process of fulfillment

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Regardless of what we see it does not matter what we see, you know, Abraham Did not stagger

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At the promises of God did not consider his own body though dead as the scripture says he did not take into account the things

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He could see and feel and touch and measure He went by what God said and that superseded and trumped everything that you could see measure and feel

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Right, and so our opinions aren't relevant. What's relevant is what God's Word says I don't care what the newspaper says newspaper says things are going to hell in a handbasket

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I imagine they are because we've departed from Christ. Does that mean that's the endgame? No, it means God's going to do what he's done all the time.

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He starts a new work wherever he needs to do it You know light might come into Africa before it comes into America God is of the mind to do exactly that.

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In fact, that's what happens in Isaiah 19 and And it happens lo we turn to the Gentiles Paul said there was a sudden transition you know, we're not going to spend any time with folks who want don't want the gospel and There's a reason for that because it's described as a process that is predicted in Isaiah 19 among other places

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So just to clarify just as we get started the postmillennial hope starts with God creating a good world that falls into sin and He's not going to finish with this world until he has fully redeemed it in Christ Is that a fair summary of what everything you said?

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Yes, and I should Prefaces to say when we talk about the world we're talking about the world of living men.

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Yes living creatures, right? Too many times people you see the Hebrew view is once you leave the world

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You're not part of the world anymore, right? You're in the world some other place, but you're not here And you might be in Abraham's bosom

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You might be on the cross the chasm from there as the original man found himself, but nonetheless you're not in this world anymore

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So we're saying in this current world where people live and breathe and work play and worship that world

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Subject to trans total transformation and it's a slow long centuries after century process by the

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Holy Spirit being poured on all flesh And that's the victory. It means that the gospel the Great Commission will be succeed.

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That's the point of postmortem. It's not a fool's errand It's not a hopeless thing to do.

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It's not just kicking against the goads It's not pointless So and it's consistent with Scripture, too

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We're not told to say do this until you don't think you're getting any result in the

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Hebrew understanding of the Notion of a world. It's the world of the living So we talk about the world.

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We're not talking about every single human being that ever lived We're talking about those who are living on the face of the world at the time at the end of history and what their

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Destination is going to be what their destiny is. So That's important distinction to make because if you don't make that distinction you can end up in heretical

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Areas, which we don't want to do. I mean, there's a reason why it's a faith once delivered To the Saints and we don't want to compromise it in any way shape or form

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But neither do we want to bend it to match our expectations What we need to do is bend our expectations to match the

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Word of God And that's why we use the example of Abraham who staggered not at the promises of God and did not consider his own body

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Though dead and Sarah 90 years old, etc. These things were non issues to him

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They should be in on issues to us because when you start to say well look at this problem that problem and these issues How will we ever solve that?

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You're just telling me that their problems here that God is not capable of solving to tell you this But those are exactly where God operates in this fear of the impossible

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That's why he's God and we're not and if he says he's going to conquer all these things It's to our lack of credit that we disagree with him or disbelief and that's what it is disbelief

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It's much easier to believe in say a pre -millennial notion that things are going worse to worse because what happens?

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We're off the hook, right? It's actually a council of irresponsibility. It's despair, but it's also irresponsible

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I'm off the hook thing down here. We lose so we don't expect to win so when we Position ourselves to win right because boy that would not be presumptuous of God's sending everything into the furnace

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And why would we want to pull anything out of it? God wants to burn it all to the ground, but he doesn't he came to redeem it

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He doesn't come to condemn the world But the through him the world might be saved we read this in John 3 right after the famous 316

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Come these assertions about Christ being the Savior of the world And we need to take these terms seriously and it's going it's going to be the world that's going to be saved

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Maybe not the world that we're seeing right now in the year 2024, but the ultimately the world will be saved and Those who die in their sins stay in their sins and they have eternal judgment that they've richly earned and which they

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Didn't have any grace from God to Supervent, but that's the problem.

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You need to understand that this has to be a scriptural idea Do not be looking at world events

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Because it that is a distraction from Scripture We just been well said the newspaper does not have a prerogative to question and correct

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Scripture But the Scripture has the prerogative to correct what the newspaper says Besides which to how we've realized a lot of newspapers are lying in the first place about a lot of things because they have agendas and perhaps one of the agendas is to Derail a

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Christian activity because the Christians are serious about the Great Commission Then they're going to be teaching all things

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Whatsoever Christ is commanded and that conflicts with the agendas of the humanists who have a different idea of what should be commanded of you

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Right and me and as opposed to what Christ commands us to do And besides which

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Christ is actually here to release us and liberate us and free us Proclaim liberty throughout the land and that's kind of what's going on Is that there's a release from the curse that's going to be occurring over time and post -mortem takes that seriously and says it's the work of the gospel and the

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Holy Spirit transforming the world that causes lifespans to increase that causes the changes that are apparently there in effect in Isaiah 11 in nature

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So those things are on target you can spiritualize them away, but then at that point, what are you left with?

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Well, I guess you're left with only the scriptures you were willing to grapple with and accept and that of course, it's smorgasbord approach

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I will believe what I choose to believe Does not mean thy will be done. It means our will be done

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And I think this conflicts with scripture so resoundingly that God is simply going to overrule it

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Because let me ask you this on top of what you just said because that's a really good point But I almost have

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I Almost have more frustration for the translation committees who brought some of these ideas into English like for instance

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I we were doing a Bible study last night and we were on the book of Zephaniah and I pointed out that the word

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Earth in the book of Zephaniah, I think it's Zephaniah 1 or 2 I can't remember but the word earth there doesn't mean the globe that we consider like this

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Heliocentric thing that's blowing in tow with the with the Sun. This means the land and That Zephaniah is prophesying that all of the people of the land who have been

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Covenantly unfaithful to God are going to perish not every human being on earth as the dispensation.

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Let's say revelation 1 has this Poor translation in English where it's all the tribes of the land not all the people on earth

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Oikamene is used and in Jesus is all of that discourse you've got you've got these words that come into English just as as world with no explanation and I almost feel like that that That probably has hindered so many people from understanding a biblical concept of what these passages mean.

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Yeah, that's an issue because Ritz in Hebrew and words of G in Greek, etc cosmos

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Oikamene Sometimes the context tells you sometimes the scripture itself will say it, you know

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If it talks about the isles shall wait from his law for his law in Isaiah 42 This is indicative of something bigger than Israel, right?

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It's indicative that the far -off parts of the world across the Atlantic Ocean say Are in are in view but all those verses are very positive about what's going to happen with the

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Messiah That he's got a worldwide dominion that he exerts and then he rules from the heavens to to Set it in order it a right according to his purpose now

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Here's the flip side of that You can go down the wrong direction and actually take verses that do apply to the world and say well

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That's just Israel say and so we don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. So we need to be

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Contextually shrewd and say well how does what is the surrounding? Context to is indicative that it's a covenantal lawsuit against Israel because there are covenantal lawsuits against other nations

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So this the entire Babylon, right riddling the scripture. So sometimes it's not just Israel that's in the view

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But most of the time those are pre -ad Scenarios that are in that scripture is pointing out and we need to take that historically in context

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This is the problem is that most people are workmen ashamed. They don't like to think so But we're told to be a workman approved not ashamed

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Which means that we need to study to show ourself, right and one thing that we fall down on is study

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Of scripture and that's why eschatology which is probably the last thing people ought to study when more complex things

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Tends to be the very first thing and I call that looking through the wrong end of the telescope right at that point if you

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Do eschatology first and it can completely mutilate every other doctrine because it has to then align with the eschatology because that's the endgame so Yeah, so we were told this that there's coming a time when people will not endure sound doctrine

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This tells me that sound doctrine is something to be endured. It takes some effort and work and mental capacity to do it now

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God expects us to do this because in Hebrews 5 11 and following says for the amount of time that you've been studying you should be teachers now and that was about a three

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Year period arguably in that passage. So after three years, you should be able to teach scripture Competently but nowadays we have what

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I call the perpetual kindergarten instead where people are continually being reverted back to the Kindergarten and repeating it over and over every

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Sunday in church. They're gonna feed the lambs, but they never feed the sheep so consequently the Pastors pretty much can have his way when he wants to talk about eschatology because no one's been trained at least in his church

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To do anything other unless they decided to go rogue and read books and they might read a bit dispensational books

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They might read postal books either way They can be a thorn in the pastor's side because all of a sudden we have people

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Studying now in the early America in the 1600s sermons were between four to six hours in length and Any pastor who said something amiss someone would shoot up in the pews and say that's not correct

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And he'll quote the scripture back to the pastor So the pastors are always on red alert from their own flock and that was what they wanted they wanted a flock that was competent not that had to it was it was a

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Moronic and they had to be have baby talk all the time. They were serious Christians They were trying to carve a whole civilization out of a wilderness and died in the process many of them

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So they took their faith seriously They need a world -changing transforming faith and they wanted the truth

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They didn't want a little bit of it if the pastor decided to walk out after an hour They thought they were being cheated of God's Word And today in 22 minutes is the most you can sit on the cushion pew before you say oh man

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I got butthurt. I'm gonna get out of here Pastors too long -winded and of course with some of the message quality you have to wonder was there anything lost by leaving early

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Because we're not teaching the whole Council of God we teach what keeps the money flowing into the coffers and I think this is a

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Catastrophe and God's going to hold pastors accountable for it. You know, they were charged with a sacred deposit that like what has

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Timothy received and they were supposed to protect it and propagate it and Not supposed to smooth talk their flock

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With soothing words and I think that's a problem and post -millennium is not welcome because it talks about a responsibility

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Regarding the Great Commission that you are to go into in the entire world the entire world is in God's eye is the object of Our missionary efforts and a mission starts at home

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And it starts in the school and that is not the public school, but the Christian school So all of a sudden if you're post -millennium you find the post -millennialist are going to start yanking their kids out of public schools

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Why because they're not going to turn their children over Molech. They believe that that position is inconsistent with Scripture So post -millennium is not just an eschatology

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It also ends up affecting everything because everything then becomes ordered around what the kingdom of God It's a secret he first the kingdom of God doesn't mean look in the skies for Jesus to come back but to seek his kingdom and his righteousness which the word justice here now and Implemented right implemented by walking according to his ways and that becomes a light and to others you know people will see the city on a hill and But most

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Christians are willing just to be a damp spot on a pew and I think that's a problem, right? Let's differentiate those views you've got you like let's not even talk about amillennialism for a second because that's an entirely different breed but Post -millennialism pre -millennialism look at the same passages and say yes, that's gonna happen on this earth.

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The question is when Why would you say that that pre -millennialism and let's just be fair and historic pre -millennialism and maybe you know that group

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But but why would you say that that's wrong? They've got the timing wrong and that these things must occur on the pre second advent of Christ I Think the reason that it's in error

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Is because they put too much stock in the power of the flesh They believe that the only way to contain man's sin is for Jesus to be here in person

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That he must rule in the flesh. He must be sitting on that throne This is exactly where we get a problem in Scripture the idea that this is even countenanced in the

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Bible I would say it's impossible and I'll give you why first off. We acknowledge that The Bible is not a

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Source of confusion. God is not the author of confusion. So the Bible can't be a source of it because he authored it we read the following things about the

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Messiah in Zechariah 6 12 and 13 it says he shall build the temple of the

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Lord even he shall build a temple of the Lord and He shall be a priest upon his throne right now here's this interesting

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He's a priest on his throne and this is actually what Psalm 110 says also, right? No, he's a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.

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So he's a priest when he's a throne She's a king and a priest simultaneously Then you flip over to Hebrews 8 verses 4 and 5 where it reads that if he were on earth

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He would not be a priest. You see the second you put Jesus on earth His priesthood is gone because scripture cannot be broken.

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So he's not a priest on the earth Therefore he can't be a king on the earth. So putting him on earth De -kings him dethrones him de -priests him

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And that's why his throne and his priesthood is exercised in heaven as long as he's in heaven These things are not the scripture is not broken

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He maintains his kingship from there the right hand of all power and authority And this priesthood is exercised from there where he can present his blood as a sacrifice in the

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Holy Tabernacle in heaven so scripture says no if he were on earth

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He wouldn't be a priest and Zechariah says if you're not a priest, he's not a king So their idea is the king has to come back.

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I said the second he shows up. He's not a king anymore It's over. It's all over. Yeah, he's dead in the water So the doctrine has not thought through the scriptures on these points

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I can understand why they say why they would want the Lord back Heck the Jesus the disciples wanted him back right away, too.

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He said I'm going away for a long time But I understand the heart of it But they don't understand that Jesus sent another because he says it's expedient for me to go

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I need to go so that the Holy Spirit can do his work and his work is not just provisional.

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It's not just partial It's not just a temporary stop gap. It's not just some scaffold on the building before we blow the building apart

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It's to rebuild the entire structure completely from top to bottom And so the

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Holy Spirit is competent to do these things He's omnipotent and that's why I think you have a defective view of the

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Trinity when you abandon say a post -millennial view of the power of the Holy Ghost You know, that's the one thing

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I think the charismatics have absolutely right they do not They're not in the position or how we put that They don't fear or despair that the power of God through the

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Holy Spirit is inadequate for anything, right? In fact, even Spurgeon made the comment He says the Holy Spirit But never suffered the imprecation to rest on his holy name that he was unable to convert the world

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That's a powerful statement by Spurgeon. Yeah Spurgeon kind of flipped between pre -mill and post -mill in his sermons

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He did some sermons on some some of the Psalms like Psalm 67 I think and that's some others where he outright says the entire world will be converted before Christ returns other times

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He talks like a pre -mill So he flip -flopped all the time because he saw both sides and he kind of I'll call it as I see him

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I guess I'm his assistant But this verse seems to teach this right when you get to say listening to Calvin on the

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Psalms comes off very post -mill Calvin and other places he sounds very omel So the scholars used to be that way they say well

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Today this is I'm going to exposit the scripture the way that God's illuminating my thought on this so the upside is the

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Holy Spirit is competent to do this and He was sent to do these critical things and for us to say it's not possible

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He used to say the Holy Spirit is not omnipotent and that point your Trinity is shut and shuttered

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Right and made of no one not effect. You have basically insulted the Holy Ghost Comes Certainly short of blaspheming him.

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But boy, what a horrible thing to do is say he's wimpy I don't go hold to a wimpy Holy Spirit I hold to an omnipotent one who's going to conquer the entire world for Christ regardless of what's resistance to him

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Okay, because we're talking about irresistible grace. That's the point I suppose in our minion would have a problem with this

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He said well, of course grace can be resisted and God we can tell God to to knock it off and beat it, right?

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And cast him out But that's not the way it actually going to work in reality God is omnipotent and none can stay his hand and say what do is thou?

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Yeah, the Arminian says we can always say what are you doing? You knock it off and we and he has no choice but to stop but in the reality is nobody can tell

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God What do is thou and tell him to stop what he's doing and what he's doing is what he set out to do and he told us in advance all the way from Say Genesis 12 3 right that through his seed

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Abraham seed the whole world would be blessed all the families of the world would be That hasn't happened yet now the pre -mill says it'll happen when

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Christ comes back but but let's even assume that was true Let's assume that Hebrews 8 4 & 5 wasn't in Scripture and saying when he comes down as soon as Jesus is

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King But the scripture also says the following in Isaiah 2 4 it says And nation shall not raise up sword against nation neither shall they learn war evermore

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What is taught in Isaiah 2 4 is the permanent cessation of war? peace that never ends is

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It's proof and we get the same idea in Psalm 72 I think it's verse 7 of the abundance of peace the balance of peace shall endure

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Until the moon be no more see so again these notions of perpetual peace and and a war that does not ever happen

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So the cessation of war is taught in Scripture. It's also in Micah 5 for that matter So we have this version of the notion of no more war evermore

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But what does a pre -millennialist Millennium ends with he said Jesus rules over the world for a thousand years

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We had this peace, but then there's the greatest rebellion of all time We have this massive attack of Satan or Russell's So these people had peace for a thousand years of Jesus the world's best government ever because it was

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Jesus himself handling everything by himself being the bureaucrat and the the chief bottle washer, etc, and Now everyone rebels against Jesus essentially, right and it's a massive war, you know, they gather themselves for the battle

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It says the Ptolemaic that words this was war and you know, I know people have to say no, that's not a real war Yeah, it's a war

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They're going to try to surround the camp of the Saints at the investiture and and knock it down you know an act of hatred if you will so The Millennium eats ends in a horrible war.

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It's an attempted war just as they're about to attack Fire comes from down from heaven and destroys around so you have an incineration effect

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And so history even under Christ fails and the serious dispensationalist will say so Yeah, every dispensation fails even the

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Millennium fails. So they have a doctrine of failure for all these consecutive periods time.

29:09

Yeah, and the whole city so Even if I had Jesus Yes king

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You'd only be king for exactly a thousand years Then his kingship is shot because why no one these people are not rebelling they're rebelling against him.

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They're trying to kill him That's what they reject his kingship. And so if he's not king over their hearts, he's not king at all

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Because that's the only kind of king he really is in that sense So all those who you ruled so well and blessed with they attack him according to this model

29:38

I don't believe in the bottle but the model requires this that the Millennium ends with the catastrophic war and incineration of many millions and billions of people

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And that's apart from anything that they has already talked about their alleged great tribulation on the world

29:52

Which I don't accept that either. I think it's not biblical and not a proper understanding of those passages But here on their own principle, they agree that the

30:00

Millennium of peace that they say so important We have peace, but why is it not perpetual because the scripture says it doesn't end in a war

30:06

There shall be no more war ever more ever more is pretty clear to me and that Hebrew word is

30:12

Postposited at the end of that verse for emphasis. So there's no confusion and it's also repeated the same doctrine elsewhere in scripture

30:18

That's why he's the Prince of Peace And though and so for the Prince of Peace to end history with a war does not make any sense

30:25

It's senseless and it conflicts with scripture So I say he can't rule from Jerusalem on a throne because he's not a priest but even if he could is

30:34

He's not a fulfillment of any of these scriptures about the Millennium being which because the Millennium doesn't end with a war

30:42

Because Isaiah 2 4 says it's impossible that this should end with a war so when you say well, there's a progressive revelation

30:48

He said oh, yeah, so God's correcting earlier mistakes that Isaiah made over here with John on the island No, there were no mistakes entire time but you've assembled the scriptures to create the impression that there's a mistake that you need to fix up there at Dallas Theological Seminary about your doctrines that I think

31:03

I Surely believe are Maybe well intended but are erroneous.

31:08

You might be trying to do justice to this verse I'm sorry this verse or that verse but we need to take the whole

31:14

Council of God into effect so for us to say these key verses about the blessing of all

31:19

Mankind and peace that that is total in extent and persistence no more war evermore

31:28

There are no weapons anymore at that point, right? They've all been beaten into swords, you know plowshares and pruning hooks agricultural weapons

31:35

Agricultural tools right for for tending the garden of God boy.

31:40

What a difference, you know No one's going to and they don't even conceive it. It's not even learn war anymore

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So how is Satan able to deceive all the nations in the four corners of the earth and they cover up cover over the breadth of the earth this is

31:52

This teaches in Revelation 27 to 9 That if that is at the end of the millennium that you guys have predicted

31:59

Then Isaiah 2 for is wrong. I mean simply wrong. It can't eat. There's not even discussion over it

32:05

I know one dispensation. I tried to say well, it wasn't really war because there were no shots fired It was just an attempt to said but they weren't shot even learn war anymore

32:12

It's not just that maybe they didn't fire the first shot because Jesus Accelerated them before they could their intent right murder in the heart was already there to kill

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Jesus again You know, he was bad enough. He was crucified by the hand of man now they're going to Attack him with the biggest army ever assembled and this is your picture of God's kingdom.

32:32

See I don't that is not God's kingdom That's a man's kingdom run rampant But it's certainly not God's kingdom and it's not going to happen the way the preeminent believe it

32:40

Their sincerity in believing it I credit them for Say the Bible says this therefore.

32:45

I'm going to believe it but the interpretation is faulty. It's not the scripture That's at fault is the interpretation and so many times the interpretation can lead us astray and make horrible political decisions

32:55

All right, we might say well a B or C Therefore we need to do such and so but if you're wrong about the interpretation of the scripture

33:01

Then you've rested other decisions on a false Application of prophecy

33:07

I think that's a So you compound the air whenever you get scripture wrong? Which was intended to be a healing thing that lines and straightens everything that's crooked you make things more crooked and I think pre -millennium essentially worsens the situation when it comes into play and affects and Influences our minds and our hearts to go in a certain direction and say

33:28

Great Commission is really going to be a fool's errand We will not be able to teach all the nations.

33:34

Whatsoever Christ is commanded because they won't accept it until Jesus returns and fire and brimstone, etc slaughtering hundreds of thousands

33:45

So it's it's a sad picture that we have and it's usually because revelation which should be more carefully studied than it is

33:51

Has been I think grossly misinterpreted in many respects whether you seek it as belonging to the 70

33:57

AD era as many do Or believe it extends over the entire Interadvent period as I do either way

34:04

It does not lend itself to the idea that The end is a catastrophe that eschatology is has a pessimistic outlook rather It's got a positive outlook promises made to Abraham are yay and amen in Christ, and they're not going to be any backs peddling on any of it

34:21

Right now the timing might not suit us, but that's that's our problem, right? We have to be like the pilgrims in America who are willing to be stepping stones to the next generation

34:29

If we're not willing to be that then God simply has to bypass us and let our bones bleach in the desert like those

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Israelites who came through the Red Sea only two of that generation actually passed over the

34:40

River Jordan Caleb and Joshua the rest were unfit because they

34:46

Listened to all the negative press about the actually was called an evil report brought up against the land of Canaan by the ten spies

34:53

Only two spies were faithful the other ten magnified and exaggerated the problems of doing things God's way and lo and behold

35:01

Everyone believed the negative report and what happens they get to wander for four years And so Christians will wander for their equivalent 40 years if we continue to believe these negative reports about what the kingdom of God will achieve and accomplish

35:13

And I believe it's laid out clearly in Scripture. What simply happens is that we mentally take in that Scripture, and then we reroute it we

35:20

We Position it in a certain place in a chart and then that puts it away so we have to worry about it

35:27

See, I'm ever said the more irresponsible we can become today the more attractive that's going to be Itching ears means we're kind of attracted to an idea and and that's why

35:35

Spurgeon says The idea that Jesus is not going to convert the world chimes in with our

35:41

Sluggishness our slothfulness, right? Yeah into our indolence and so Spurgeon's right.

35:47

It's human nature to want to sit on our push and not do things and the post -millennia says counseling responsibility for your family for your community for your nation and and that we all have to cast our crowns before Christ and The sooner you do it the sooner you stop kicking against the goads and the easier it is because the way the transgressors is

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Hard that's why the nation's are in such a mess today. They transgress and so God is not mocked

36:13

What you you will reap what you sow and we continue to sow rebellion and disobedience against God and we also so faithlessness,

36:20

I believe Because of our approach to eschatology, so we would be better off teaching everything else but eschatology rather than teaching a bad eschatology that essentially derails and Disempowers the church in terms of its mission then has a different idea of its mission

36:38

It's just that shrunken mission truncated view of the gospel and that's not going to be world -changing, right?

36:43

God's gonna use someone else who seizes his world -changing. He's gonna use one man to reach India and he's gonna use this guy to reach

36:49

China Etc. Etc. If that's what it takes but it's gonna be a fit the faithful men who do that and if we're not faithful to God's scripture and Worse yet.

37:00

We bend it in order to justify our faithlessness Right that happened in Haggai, right? They said it's not time to build a temple

37:06

Lord, right? We but we have sealed houses We have houses with wonderful ceilings and then

37:11

God calls them I says you Refuse to build my temple my house at the Tim the timbers foundation timbers are sitting there rotting in the rain

37:18

But you took care of all your own personal houses. My house is rotting and that's how it is today We're taking care of our own personal houses, but we're saying it's not the time to build

37:26

God's kingdom You're gonna have to do it himself when he comes back. That's false It is a dangerous falsehood because I wanted it

37:34

Encourages the enemy and it also discourages us. So it's a double whammy. I will tell you this much

37:40

There's no doubt in my mind that every single victory that Satan ever has won has all been won by forfeit

37:46

Christian forfeiture as he doesn't win anything be in a fair fight. This isn't choose to have a fair fight

37:52

He chooses to tell us why bother isn't it easier just to? Let God do everything and he's gonna be different.

38:00

So this is my world after all he'll say, you know Read it right there in Scripture. I will offer all these kingdoms to Jesus didn't

38:06

I so they were mine So leave don't try to steal from me. I shall not steal so we got all this nonsense imposed on the figure of Satan and it's all used to justify

38:16

Christian inaction and I think God cannot use lump bumps on the log and few warmers

38:24

You have to bypass them For men who are serious and women who are serious about Scripture I'm not gonna leave the women out because they have a better part to play too

38:34

And and so the family is the basic unit governmental unit in Scripture And so that's why the very first promise to Abraham is that all the families of the earth will be blessed, right?

38:43

You know all the nations of the earth shall be blessed. So we have this totality of A vision of the future that is very hard to accept considering how things look today

38:52

But that's the point God can overrule all of this God can renew things were much worse in the previous eras of history and God pulled them back out of the of the

39:01

Septic tank and we have a myopic view of our current history and we we fail to really understand the struggles of other times

39:11

Yeah, we and that's called by the way chronological snobbery. That's I Love how you

39:20

I love how you use Isaiah 2 there and and you said that the timing actually really does matter because It's not just that, you know

39:28

We get our person our participation trophy for believing that these things are gonna happen on earth The timing actually matters because you nullify the father's promises

39:37

You nullify the priesthood of Christ and you nullify the effect and the power of the Holy Spirit For what to amplify that we have greater power of the flesh to circumvent the

39:48

Promises the rain and the ministry of the Spirit of God It puts us actually up and above the

39:54

Trinity just even with that simple argument, which I thought was very profound Yeah, I think that's why it's important to understand all the ins and outs of Scripture And the young the early

40:06

Americans if since they're insisting on five and six hour sir Sermons on hard benches in un -air -conditioned churches

40:14

I think their character was a bit more profound and sound than ours is today

40:22

We are You get the picture, right? We were reading last night in Zephaniah and in chapter 1 and God rebuking

40:32

Judah for complacency And I just I told our group last night. I said I really think

40:37

Zephaniah Because we're going through all the minor prophets and we're going through them in chronological order in this Bible study that we're doing

40:44

And I said Zephaniah really feels like our time right now There's this complacency.

40:51

There's this Well, God's neither gonna do good nor ill which is also Zephaniah 1 that that that he's not even noticing us anymore

40:58

And we've just we're sitting on our laurels and we're not pressing forward The Bible says the gates of hell don't advance on us.

41:06

They fall down when we advance So if we don't advance they don't fall down and I think that's a lazy smuggler to Christianity has captivated

41:13

The the West and I pray to the Lord that we repent from it Yeah, I think repentance is called for but most people don't want to consider that they are in a position where they need to repent of it

41:25

We've learned from Donald Trump to double down On our activities and I think that's that's gonna be a bigger mistake because it's not just you who will suffer

41:34

But it's also your children, you know, you have children are asking for bread. You're giving them a rock

41:40

Yeah, you should give them a serpent and assess essence. We're doing this educationally. We're doing this

41:46

Spiritually, we're giving them a world that we say we probably shouldn't have brought you into it This is the devil's gonna have a tribulation started any moment.

41:52

So what are these views just our self? Fulfilling prophecies in effect.

41:58

They make you ineffective and I think that's part of their purpose It was unthinkable It was a

42:03

Karl Bogaertz said signed in 1813 that that Premalism was an astonishing aberration that was surprised.

42:09

It was still around Well, it grew again. It grew again because there were attacks on scripture from many counters how many quarters

42:15

I should say That was attacked through Darwinian ism. So the authority of scripture and Genesis was already at under attack the postmodern textual critics question whether Moses actually wrote any of the books of Moses and so he started to put this huge gap between the books and their

42:32

Reputed Arthur's so we don't have a divine revelation anymore We have a very human one and then finally dismissationalism said well, we're not even supposed to win the battle.

42:40

So those three things are Quite a nasty troika that kind of programs us to defeat ism

42:49

Yeah, and the worst of it I think is this is that now a new court term has been coined

42:55

Triumphalist the worst thing you can be in some people's minds is a triumphalist if you talk about the victory of Christ We are triumphalist.

43:00

That's horrible. Yeah, it was awful thing that Christ would be triumphant over things And they also believe that we're talking about doing this in our own strength.

43:08

No, no, no No, there's nothing to be further than the truth. This is the Spirit of God is thing driving this forward we are just part of the process that God has chosen and in fact

43:18

It's even supposed to be a foolish thing right the foolishness of the gospel is all we have You know, we have spiritual weapons, but God says they're mighty to the tearing down of strongholds

43:28

But there certainly are not physical weapons So I usually joke

43:33

I said we use peace shooters when we should use the bazookas of the word People take me literally says this man's calling for men

43:40

Christians to use bazookas on their neighbors. No, well spiritual bazooka yeah, which is to say the

43:45

Word of God which I Un -debraded in other words not added anything to it.

43:50

Don't dilute it with anything Many times we dilute the Word of God or put some sugar in it to swallow it doesn't need that It's best to take in whole and in pure and full intensity full dosage

44:03

Because that's transforms souls hearts minds and when heart is transformed it then acts upon the new

44:13

Convictions you see if you have strong convictions and you have strong actions But if you have weak convictions you have a weak hundred bit bitten faith is

44:20

Warfield would put it and that's where we're faced at people are more inclined to believe their eyes than the scriptures and Because they want to at least pay lip service to scriptures.

44:29

They then look at the scripture and say what does it take for me? to bend the scripture to Justify what I see with my eyes rather than what's gonna take for me to take the scriptural

44:38

Message Passages and apply them to what I see with my eyes to transform that into something what

44:43

God describes is supposed to be the endgame So two different missions missions two different kinds of messages are out there

44:49

Either we lose or we win out here. Obviously, it's not it's gonna be or it's a draw. It's a homilies might argue

44:56

But nonetheless, it's the postmal position that Christ wins and Christ wins through us

45:03

But not because we're competent but in fact we're far from it but just a little bit of faithfulness goes a long way

45:09

It doesn't take a lot of 11 to 11 the whole lump, right? It takes us being serious and sincere in our faith and That's why someone who's faithful in little things it's going to be given him power and authority over big things larger things

45:23

So there's a whole idea that we need to have this massive top -down thing is incorrect Postman ism if anything is a grassroots thing.

45:29

It talks about starting at the small and moving up slow, that's why I love post millennial ism, by the way, is

45:37

Pre millennial ism really puts the focus on Jesus needs to do this by himself and then even in their view his kingdom collapses in the end, which is just utterly preposterous to me, but God instead of snapping his fingers because he could have done that like, you know, the

45:56

Marvel movies He could have been Thanos and converted everyone. He wanted to convert and damned everyone He wanted to damn and that'd be over.

46:02

He could have done that and yet he doesn't because I think God is writing a story where he is going to get

46:10

Maximal glory and what better way to do that than take creatures who were previously objects of his wrath

46:17

To turn them into objects of his mercy and for them still to be pretty Um Boneheaded at times and yet through those people

46:27

Through the the fools that that are the foolish people of the world the ones that that everybody looks at and it's like those people

46:34

To win the world with them like it it'd be like it'd be like a coach taking

46:41

Taking a group of of the most non skilled basketball players ever and winning the NBA championship

46:46

Like but even infinitely better than that and I think that's why God's doing it that way to to magnify his own glory.

46:52

Yeah Israel itself was an underdog, right? He says he was told they were told it's not because you were a great nation anything you weren't you were the hindmost part but God can lift you up right and That is our position to post -mortem says

47:09

God can lift the world out of this situation, but it requires Christians to be at least responsible

47:15

And responsible for the things that they need to be if they're responsible for their children that Ari is a huge thing That's the heritage of the

47:21

Lord and that's the next generation right, and so that's why Psalm 22 in is the way it does he says, you know, she'll say to a people not yet born

47:30

He has done this so God already has the next generation in his eye even though they haven't been born yet.

47:36

And and But part of that is that wonderful that concludes a passage that includes the things that he's the governor among the nations and all the

47:42

Nations shall be ruled by him and all the families And I think there's a very very powerful passage there in the tail end of a

47:50

Psalm 22 in the middle of it It talks about the crucifixion. So these are the things that happen as a result of the crucifixion

47:58

There is a transformation that occurs it's it's the central point of history and it and divides history between before and after and the after is a slow process and it's

48:06

I described I think very well in the imagery of Ezekiel 47 there's a damp spot on the wall of the temple

48:14

Right, and it then starts and so as he was told to follow it he follows it for a thousand Cubits and it's a stream that's about ankle deep follows it for another thousand cubits

48:24

Now it's a stream that's knee deep say and then hip deep and finally it's a river that he can't be crossed

48:31

It's it he's drowning like this. And so he's drowning the angel pulls him on says son of man.

48:36

Have you seen this? Yeah, I thought I was drowning in it And so that's the kind of what the Holy Spirit is We have this process by which it's in just a little leak a damp spot on the wall

48:45

Turns into a stream into a brook into a river into a massive flood that cannot be afforded

48:51

And this is not on the other side of it as a tree of life giving its fruit in its season So this imagery is about the growth of the kingdom of God through history.

48:58

It doesn't start. Boom. Jesus is here. It's here That is an erroneous position. I don't know why

49:04

John MacArthur has said the this is an air is tense here And so that when they came to come it's an explosive showing up all of a sudden without any warning their boomies here

49:12

No, it is a stream. That's a virtually in Hard to notice just a damp spot on the wall dripping down right and then forms the stream and then

49:23

Nothing's adding to the stream. It's growing by itself self -production of the stream into a wider and larger stronger current

49:28

And we're in the middle of the current. We're in the middle of the kingdom of God as it's growing I think we're probably somewhere in the ankle deep area.

49:34

Maybe a close to knee deep, but that's about it But it's going to go up to here until the whole world is consumed in part of that process of that fantastic River And what it happens it says eventually it pours into the

49:47

Dead Sea and everything and it lives So it's this miraculous components to this This is a picture of a miraculous

49:53

Transformation of the world where the things that we could never possibly happen like the Dead Sea bringing forth fish and fishes on the

49:58

Dead Sea this is a big but they'll cast their nets from all the way to Elangium Etc.

50:05

Etc. That give the two poles and positions on the shore There's nothing worthwhile there today is it's so loaded with salt.

50:14

It's worthless, but they're gonna be fishing Getting great fish out of it best fishing in the world is in the

50:19

Dead Sea who knew but under Christ that happens, right? And so that happens as a process

50:24

It's historical process of the small becoming big about the mustard seed growing into a tree so large that every bird under heaven lodges in it

50:32

That's an important verse. It didn't say every kind of versus every bird under the heavens lodges in it This is a picture taken from Ezekiel 17.

50:39

Jesus is not just inventing things out of out of the air like this he's appealing to a previous passage about a

50:46

Tender sign that's plucked Penetrating the high mountain eminent and it grows so large that all the birds in heaven dwell in its branches

50:53

You see this all ties together This is the scripture is fairly coherent and consistent if you actually take a close look at it

51:00

The Romans 11 is actually I believe as a riff as I call it on Isaiah 19

51:05

The prediction of the conversion of the Gentiles before the conversion of Israel So there's some powerful things happening in scripture

51:11

If we would do the necessary study or have the necessary resources But guess what?

51:18

This whole message is a message of increased responsibility for Christians And that's a hard sell when everyone wants to is lazy slothful

51:25

That's the very word used by the way twice in the book of Hebrews About being slothful in hearing when you're supposed to be a teacher by now instead

51:33

You're still needing to go back to the stoichia the abcs you're getting a doctorate in alphabet. Whoa, that's great

51:38

And that's all Christians are they're getting a doctorate in alphabet But they're not going to assemble sentences and paragraphs and chapters and books and libraries

51:48

At that rate because they're just studying the alphabet over and over again. Well, that doesn't cut it They need to do the other they need to move forward and they cannot be slothful in hearing that word

51:56

New troy only occurs twice in the book occurs in the book of hebrews and it's a culpable action You know slothfulness laziness is a sin the wicked and slothful servant we hear in matthew 25

52:08

It's a moral problem. It's not just an intellectual problem. I'm just a hard heart. I don't find it fun to read or easy

52:13

You can read you just don't want to read and so God Wants you to read him though.

52:20

He prepared an inscripturated revelation for us And he also gave us 21 centuries of sanctified scholarship.

52:25

Why we pick out the paperbacks that are designed to Feather some author's nests with the something that tickles our ears.

52:33

I don't get it You know, we should be reading books I think the best books were not written in this century Anyway, certainly united the 20th century.

52:40

Most of the best books were written in the 1600s 1700s maybe and we and we and each century after the reformation

52:48

I think has gotten thinner and thinner on good scholars They were there, but we but we had a great heritage and we squandered it

52:56

Academically and academically in a sense of taking the word of god and applying it to every thought, you know Taking all thought captive to the beings of christ

53:03

Some people are going to say that's a misuse of that passage I think I like to see that made good i've seen attempts to make that claim good

53:09

But natural fact we are called to do that We're called to take every thought captive to the beings of christ because any thought that's not is actually a rebellious thought

53:17

And I don't see how god's going to use rebellious thought except as an example of what what happens, right?

53:23

We then that's what happens in first corinthians 10 All these things happen to israel as in samples unto us of what not to do

53:29

Don't do these things don't murmur in the in the wilderness when god's trying to take care of you because it

53:35

Takes him off You know it's Ingratitude is one of the worst things and for him to send the gift of the holy spirit to convert the world and for us to Not want it to say take him back get rid of the holy spirit.

53:45

He needs to go he's an impediment to the of the uh to the revelation of the uh man of sin

53:50

And things need to get back on track and the holy and the church has to be taken out of the way So that israel can get back on their prophetic trajectory

53:59

All this stuff is a terrible theology and it also affects political effects events and it

54:06

Chimes in as spurgeon says with our laziness Because it allows us to justify laziness and I think this is a catastrophe of large proportions

54:16

Not because because program is not going to be achieved, but it won't be achieved through us We'll be part of the problem and not the solution

54:22

Maybe our children will be part of the solution, right? Just as israel's children were part of the solution when they entered canaan and nonetheless

54:30

Their parents all died in the wilderness. I don't want my children to be in that boat I don't think your audience wants to have that happen either

54:37

I think that's the attraction of post -malayism. The other problem, of course that people say well look at all these verses that oppose

54:42

Post -malayism I challenge anyone to actually make good on that happens all the time people say well the x -verse and they

54:48

And I respond I give them the world's going from bad to worse that's when I hear all the time, yeah and so That's a point that and even by that comment, by the way, they're out walking by sight

54:59

They didn't establish that from scripture, right? They're talking about something that in like second timothy 317 said that those individual men go from bad to worse

55:08

There's not a trend that they give rise they bear babies that are worse than they are You know, it's only that that that the worst babies that ever were born were the

55:16

Those that were ended up being adults at the time of the flood because every thought of their heart was continually wicked, right?

55:23

I don't know if we're necessarily that bad, but nonetheless we got a reset, you know a do -over And that do -over we're not going to be wiped out by uh flood again but yeah, that actually is a contemporaneous statement related to The generation that paul was dealing with and he was dealing with people who were contending against him

55:40

And he makes an interesting point when he compares them to the uh, Magicians janice and jamboree said withstood moses.

55:46

He said but they shall not prevail In other words their agendas will fall to the ground.

55:52

It'll flop. They're not going to get anywhere with their attempts to defy god So they might go from bad to worse but in doing so they become culturally ineffective

56:00

They actually destroy the very thing they're trying to achieve which is humanistic Uh tower of babel all towers of babel are doomed because they are built on what the sand and being built on the sand

56:10

Uh, they have no root in themselves and they fall away It was supposed to be building on the rock and Only things that are on the rock will in fact, there's a verse in matthew 15 13 whatsoever

56:22

Thing the lord hath not planted shall be rooted up I consider that as paradigmatic which means you can take that to the bank.

56:29

It's always true. The lord didn't plant something If it's in defiance of god, it'll be rooted up and so it's on borrowed time

56:36

It's there and it's being used as an example for us Of what happens when people defy god and its folly will be manifest to everybody because god's going to triumph over them

56:46

So and we have to be faithful in believing it And it also is paradigmatic for the post -millennial view because why would a farmer?

56:55

Root up things that don't belong in the ground He's not going to leave the ground Abandoned he's rooting those things out so that he can plant the things that he wants

57:04

So he can fill his garden full of his things so even indirectly that verse Uh really means that he's going to fill the world with worshipers

57:11

Which is what we've been saying over and over and over again through the series I know that um certainly the amillennial believers, uh believe that the

57:20

Parable of the wheat and the tares is indicative that the wicked and righteous people will coexist all the way up to the end of time

57:27

Uh that there's been no change in the relative proportions of good and bad And I and I think this is mistakes what's actually going on in that verse and so this kind of speaks to your point

57:39

The reason that we don't tear up any of the Tears, we don't the angels are forbidden from removing them

57:45

It's just because you will tear up uproot wheat Now people have tried to explain all sorts of agricultural reasons for it, but they're not actually

57:54

Dealing with the text what this says it says you will literally be tearing up wheat and i'll give an example Tira was abraham's dad

58:01

Tira was a tare. He was a weed a weed and uh He deserved to be torn up had the angels removed tira abraham would not have been born

58:11

Why because abraham was in his loins, right? You read hebrews 7 it says levi was in the loins of abraham and paid tithes to melchizedek

58:18

So there's a whole bunch of generations hiding in our loins if you will and uh They are present

58:24

So the warning is if you actually tear up the tares You're going to actually be uprooting future generations of wheat that are going to be born to this tare

58:31

Just like tira and abraham abram and then abraham as god renamed him as his son

58:37

So you end up getting Regenerate offspring from unregenerate parents. The other thing you have happening is that certain

58:47

Lines Genetically die out, right? We read in psalm 109 about the wicked either that the posterity the wicked shall be blotted out in a generation to come their name

58:57

They'll should be obliterated. So here you have so the tears will either be self terminating because Psalm 109 and psalm 37 apply to their destiny or they have elect offspring

59:08

And if you have the and so in other words the parable Looks at the world as throughout all time

59:15

If there's a protensive temporal component to it from beginning to end And as you look at it actually as toward the end it becomes more and more wheat and less and less tares because Either the tares are dying out or they're giving elect offspring

59:27

This was a process that continues until they cannot continue anymore because everyone's elect by the end

59:32

So god's election is basically electing more more more every generation This is god's doing only god controls election because it's part of his council interior council

59:40

And he has every century done that. Yeah So every century he's electing has elected more and he did it before his time started of course

59:47

But each every generation is more and more elect in this way they don't don't tear up the Weeds the tears out of the ground because they will actually tear up wheat

59:58

And that's because wheat is in the generations to come and by an algorithmic requirement That means that the final generations if you don't stop this process will all be wheat

01:00:07

There won't be any tears left to encumber the ground And I think that's a powerful verse that actually understood in this

01:00:14

As to the very staunch reason One command given in that scripture is do not do that because you will tear up wheat

01:00:23

And if we take this seriously, we say we should say that's exactly what it means and And so what happens is that my opponents will say well, we shouldn't take it literally we should mess with it

01:00:33

We should bend it to our amillennial negativism and I say Go to town, but I said you're not being faithful to scripture then by your own admission you are

01:00:43

Trying to find an alternate way that to the to the prima facie meaning of the text Especially since it's consistent with other passages in scripture

01:00:50

So that's the point is that you go through every single passage. It's alleged to be negative against post -modernism You'll find that there's a very strong answer that respond that in response to it and say oh

01:01:00

I didn't even consider that possibility that it meant this or that and the other this includes the book of revelation, by the way Lots of people say well, obviously there's horrible things coming in the future

01:01:10

One has whether you read it as an idealist like I myself or historicist as some do or as a preterist

01:01:18

There are plenty of alternatives to the futurist idea that is talking about a series of catastrophes in the future

01:01:24

That'll just destroy most of the world burn it up and Throw some nasty locusts at us while he's at it

01:01:33

So yeah, that's an important point to take we might discuss it in another just uh chat, but yeah, that's other things that are alleged to be

01:01:41

Anti -victory can be shown to be pro -victory and yeah, maybe

01:01:47

That could be fodder for our next talk is um Is just looking at a couple more of these passages

01:01:54

Also, I think so much of this hinges and we can get into this next time as well Um so much of this discussion hinges on whether jesus is reigning now or not.

01:02:02

Um, You you've got daniel 7 Where jesus is said to go up to the ancient of days

01:02:10

And he receives a kingdom that will never end you've got um, isaiah 9 you've got jesus and john 12 saying the similar things that i'm going to Um, i'm going to be enthroned basically as i'm lifted up Um, you've got him before caiaphas saying daniel 7

01:02:26

You've got him in first corinthians 15 saying or through paul He must reign until he has put all of his enemies under his feet psalm 110

01:02:34

So you've got this idea that jesus is reigning now But most of the eschatological views can't hold that consistently because if he's reigning now, he's failing if if we

01:02:43

Lose down here, then he's a failed ruler And yeah that just indicts jesus not just as priest but as king

01:02:51

Yeah, he is a shrinking dominion. I thought of the increase of his Government and a piece there should be no end.

01:02:58

It's it continues to grow larger not smaller you know, in fact, that's the point of the

01:03:05

Spoils that he has earned as a result of the crucifixion according to isaiah 53, right? He shall see the travail of his soul and be glad he'll be rewarded you know and That reward is laid out also in psalm 2 for that matter

01:03:18

You know ask of me not to give you the nations as your inheritance Uh, and so whatsoever the lord has given him you shall not lose right and john 10

01:03:26

So there's all sorts of things that fit together that that speak about the victory of christ over all things

01:03:32

We talk about a victorious christ victorious over sin, but also victorious over the world and he brings the world in his train uh to bow the knee to him right, so The idea that in every knee shall bow

01:03:48

Every tongue confess. In fact, it's interesting that Citation everyone remembers it's from philippians 2 but it's a quotation from a very interesting passage in isaiah 45 verses 22 to 23 where god says

01:04:00

Commands the world be saved all the ends of the world friend lord. There's none else So the word's gone out from my mouth shall not return to me until that until that every time

01:04:08

He shall bow and every tongue shall swear So you see there's a command for the entire world to be saved be saved all the ends of the earth

01:04:14

So it's a command for the universal salvation of the world And then he says and I swear by myself that it'll happen

01:04:20

So god annexes an oath in his own name and oath is a self -malediction He said may

01:04:25

I be laid aside as a false idol if this doesn't happen So god's commanding the world to be saved and then he asserts an oath that it will be saved uh completely saved not any exceptions to the rule.

01:04:36

So now the Again, this is the world the living world the world of living men men who die in their sins

01:04:42

That's like a tree falls down and step away forever, but for the living world The every single person shall everything that hath breath shall praise god

01:04:51

And by the way, that's a very important people say well, you know god can force the wicked to praise him. I said no Pay attention to what happens when the when the demons try to say you're the christ and jesus said

01:05:01

I do not accept praise From unclean lips that he forbade that says, you know, you don't mean it

01:05:08

You mean it in resentment? so God does not accept feigned praise false praise

01:05:16

And so there's no way in god's green earth that that's that the wicked people praising god is being forced

01:05:22

You know against their will to say something about jesus is the kingdom the kingdom is the entire known living world

01:05:29

Praising god and the curse being lifted to a large extent To the point that there's only one enemy left to destroy death itself and this is asserted right there

01:05:38

In first corinthians 15, which you alluded to already that's a key verse the last enemy to be destroyed is death and then

01:05:46

We have those predictions of things that in isaiah 24 25 26 about the lifting of the veil that's cast over the

01:05:53

Face of all the nations and then death itself being swallowed up in victory So it's a victory motif and so the swallowing up of death and victory is the completed the final piece of victory

01:06:02

So we have a bunch of victories up until that point and boom the victory over death itself Right.

01:06:08

So every enemy being laid and destroyed by jesus Over time so that he only has friends left here

01:06:15

Uh those he calls his brothers and sisters and his children and that's what we pray every week

01:06:20

Hopefully every church prays this I know they don't but we pray this every week in our church Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven and we believe that amen to that That's so critical.

01:06:32

We we so unthinkingly pray that and we don't really mean what it says We don't really expect god's will to be done on earth as is in heaven.

01:06:39

I always comment. I said that's actually uh, there's no mystery as to what god's will on heaven is calvin pointed it out when he talked about this passage, uh, the

01:06:50

Matthew 6 10 Uh, he says it's right there in the psalms. He says that the uh, the flaming messengers

01:06:57

Are in heaven doing his Word continually and there's obeying his word continually.

01:07:02

So that's what it is Continual obedience to his word is what the angels do in heaven And that's what's going to be like on earth everyone continually doing only god's word and not their own

01:07:10

But doing seeking god's will and the blessings that flow from this are stupendous. I mean someone dies at 800 100 years old

01:07:17

It's considered that their their babe boy. That was a short, you know, they barely were around uh and Other aspects of nature itself instead of being red in tooth and claw is at peace itself, right?

01:07:28

Lions now having a vegetarian diet, etc, etc. No one hurting or destroying in all the holy mountain.

01:07:34

This is isaiah 11 Verses six through nine. It's an amazing passage and it follows the description of the messiah and all the things that he does by the way by the

01:07:42

When we get that first description of the messiah in isaiah 11 opening verses He's talking about the spirit of him and he mentions the spirit seven times

01:07:49

So the basic position is that isaiah 11 depicts the uh

01:07:56

The results the messiah is being imbued With the holy spirit and him sending that holy spirit into the world all these transformations of nature and of man himself

01:08:07

Are just extraordinary And so much so that people don't Have a hard time believing it.

01:08:13

They say well, maybe it's not really talking about nature But then it says that the knowledge of the lord shall cover the earth as the waters cover the sea

01:08:21

I don't see any dry spots in the ocean, right though. I believe we're gonna have a total Conquest of the entire world of the god's kingdom

01:08:28

Which therefore he is truly king Yeah acknowledged as conscientiously by his creatures by his image bearers

01:08:37

And that will show forth his glory in a way that had not hitherto been known Except prior to the fall

01:08:44

And so we we at that point when death is destroyed then we enter the the final state But prior to that point everything is moving in this direction to prepare us for the

01:08:54

Destruction of the last enemy death, right? I think that's how I thought about it We're we're on a course not downhill but uphill and because it's uphill.

01:09:04

It's a uphill climb It's difficult for us. It requires responsibility and effort on our part labor

01:09:09

We're laboring for the kingdom, but our labor for the kingdom is never in vain We're promised this voice and our work shall follow us.

01:09:15

We're told so There's reason to not only hope but to labor with a good confidence

01:09:21

In him who has called us Amen, i've thought about it Like nothing that adam failed to do christ will not fulfill

01:09:31

So what was adam called to do he was called to fill the world with worshipers check jesus is going to do that What else was he called to do be fruitful and multiply and and bring dominion to the earth?

01:09:41

He was put in a garden With the command to make the entire world a garden I think before it's over christ will have the world

01:09:49

I don't think there will be any deserts left I don't think that there will be any places that aren't garden like under the rule of christ.

01:09:56

Yeah Yeah, the desert shall blossom as the crocus right? We're told this repeatedly in scripture

01:10:02

Uh, and that fat water courses will be flowing out of the desert It's uh, we only had bits and pieces of this happening in the old testament

01:10:11

But it now is predicted to be worldwide So that all the areas that are ravaged by desert will become fertile

01:10:18

And come under the dominion of man operating under the holy spirit And obeying god's law and applying it and therefore enjoying the blessings that will pursue you when you obey god's law amen

01:10:32

I mean we've got a we've got to run today because uh, we've got to honor your time and and i've uh,

01:10:38

I brother i'm telling you I could sit here for for 10 hours talking about this stuff This is so much fun.

01:10:44

And i've i've so so thankful for your knowledge of scripture like the way you're quoting verses and these things have not just They're not surface level things you believe these are things you've thought about for years and and digested and meditated upon I'm, so thankful for you, and i'm so encouraged.

01:11:00

I um, truth be told I wasn't having the best day I wasn't having a bad day, but now i'm invigorated.

01:11:05

I want to go I want to go uh Preach and run and sing and like little calves let out to the pastor as malachi says when the son of righteousness comes

01:11:14

So brothers, thank you for encouraging us and I can't wait Uh, we'll have to do this part too because we got more to talk about if that's good with you

01:11:21

It's good with me All right. Well god bless you brother. And uh, thank you everyone for uh listening to the broadcast

01:11:30

Thank you so much for watching another episode of the podcast It is my joy to be able to bring really great guests and really great content to you each and every single week

01:11:40

We believe in the victory of christ. We believe that that's not just some gimmick or some slogan

01:11:46

We believe that jesus is going to win the world and he's going to fill the world with worshipers

01:11:51

And that might not happen very quickly that might take a very long time But all of us have a part to play

01:11:57

And all of us can find our place somewhere in the kingdom of christ I want to thank

01:12:03

I want to send a special thanks to martin for a great interview Check out part two of this interview, which will be coming out later this week