Cultural Observations on the Sexual Revolution, Mormonism, Racialism, and Calls

Alpha & Omega Ministries

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

Comments are disabled.

00:35

Well, greetings, welcome to the Dividing Line on a cold, well, it's not all that cold outside for us.

00:41

It's pretty cool, but windy, rainy here in Phoenix and as you don't have to go very far up the street, well,

00:50

I -17, and it turns to snow, northern Arizona just getting pounded today.

00:56

So that's pretty cool. I wish you had done this like before Christmas. You know, now that it's

01:04

February, it's like, whatever. But here we are on the program today.

01:10

A few programming notes. Probably going to take some phone calls today.

01:16

The reason being, I was not able to get the

01:22

Sam Albury audio edited yet. I've started, but I haven't finished it. Sam takes long breaks.

01:31

I was actually looking at the thing. Well, here, just a second.

01:38

Let me, can you, can you see that?

01:43

This is, yeah, this is, this is what Audio Notetaker looks like. And you can see these blocks are portions of audio.

01:57

And so it's a great program. If you do what I do on this program, this is like absolutely indispensable.

02:06

Like here, let's see, Anderson chapter two.

02:14

Okay. Okay. So there's, there's what it looked like when I responded to Steven Anderson, his review of chapter two.

02:23

So I can pick any section here that I've, that I've outlined and just go down here, for example, to this sort of pink section.

02:30

And then I can play it or stop it or jump back to the beginning or whatever.

02:36

It's a great program. I'm not, I don't get any money for this, but I don't even know who made it, but this is Audio Notetaker.

02:42

But notice, see, see how few spaces there are here.

02:48

Now look at, look at that, look at this huge amount of spaces. Those are, and then right here is where they ran a big spot of advertising.

02:59

So somebody else talking. And then when you go back to Sam, it goes back to these big, long spaces.

03:06

He's English. And I've noticed that a lot of English folks are that, you know, Justin Briarley wouldn't be, he can't be, you can't have, you can't have dead air on when you're a radio dude.

03:16

Anyway, so you can take that down. So it takes a while to edit. And when I say editing, all

03:21

I'm doing is listening and marking those blocks so that I can go to what really needs to be addressed instead of just listening to the whole thing.

03:32

And you might say, well, have your staff do that. That's where the rich can supposed to go up and you're supposed to go, you're supposed to go.

03:45

Oh, and notice, notice we're having to use the nighttime night vision because I'm not allowing

03:53

Rich to have lights now. And it's cold as well.

03:58

So he can't, he can't get out of there. We're just trying to keep the, keep the story going here.

04:04

You know, the thing about Munster and the cages and stuff, I started taking sort of literally, you know, and so that's what we do with the help around here.

04:12

But anyways, yeah, anyways I don't have a staff do this.

04:19

I do that all myself. I guess my staff are the folks on Twitter that send me links, but when it comes to downloading the file, importing, editing, all that stuff,

04:31

I, it'd be nice to have folks do that kind of stuff. I know a lot of other people who do webcasts and stuff that have folks that do that.

04:40

I'm just not one of them. So it takes some time. So I'll try to get to it for the first program next week.

04:47

And I think next week we're going to have to do a little shifting because I think,

04:54

I think I leave Thursday. Yeah, I leave Thursday for the Trinity Conference in Virginia.

05:03

And so we'll probably have to do a Monday, Wednesday type thing, or maybe

05:08

Monday, Tuesday. I don't know. It depends on the weather. I'd like to get at least one 85 miler in sometime next week, because I'm going to be off bike those days anyways.

05:22

And so we'll, we'll try to get it next week if we possibly can. My apologies for that.

05:28

But what is really fascinating to me is a story that I caught yesterday and it caught

05:41

Albert Moeller's attention as well.

05:47

And that was the Martina Navratilova story. The intersectionality is, it is an ever dividing and divisive concept.

06:09

It can never, it can't stop. Once you think you've reached maximum intersectional points, somebody will come along and beat you at it and, and call you out and, and have you attacked.

06:26

The, I, when I posted this, I said, maybe we should just stand back, be faithful to our callings and let the left just eat itself alive.

06:37

You know, you got the, the, the Smollett, what's guy's name? Yeah, I don't know.

06:44

I've never seen that television program, never heard of that television program. The first time I ever heard of this guy was when this attack took place.

06:55

And of course, we all know it was fraud now, and it's just fascinating watching the people on the left.

07:01

Well, you know, we hope he gets help. It's the hypocrisy. The left has no problem with hypocrisy, but they have no standards to violate, to be hypocrites in the first place.

07:11

So it's just, it's just stunning. And I, I haven't seen the

07:18

Christian social justice warriors that were up on, up in arms coming back and saying, oh, well, okay, maybe.

07:27

And instead it's like, well, there's still plenty of this going on and it's, now this is just going to, you know, you're just going to use it to dismiss everything.

07:37

Okay, well, whatever, anyway. Um, the

07:42

Martina story, cause I, you know, she's not, I wonder how old she is.

07:48

Someone look up how old Martina Navratilova is, uh, just Google her real fast. Uh, because I think she's, if she's older than me, she's not much older than me.

08:02

Um, 62. Okay. All right. Six years older than me. So, you know,

08:07

I played tennis in high school and it was pretty good. I went to state as a sophomore.

08:13

I didn't play my junior and senior years when I could have done better. I was so involved at North Phoenix Baptist church, to be perfectly honest with you.

08:20

My coach was very angry about that, that I was more interested in church stuff than, uh, playing on the, on the tennis team, but, but I've always had some interest.

08:29

Michael Fallon was a tennis pro and he knew a lot of these folks. Uh, and so I got inside stories from him about this, that, and the other thing.

08:37

And so I've, I've had an interest in that particular area and I'm old enough to remember the Chrissy Everett, Martina Navratilova, epic matches and stuff.

08:45

And Chrissy Everett was a class act. I mean, she was a beautiful lady, just, but, but she herself and Martina Navratilova both would admit with pure honesty that they couldn't, they could not compete with the top 100 men in the, in the tennis tour.

09:04

And there's a reason for this and it's because there's a difference between men and women. Men are stronger than women.

09:11

They're taller. Um, they can serve. I mean, just, just watch even the biggest, strongest women.

09:19

I won't go any farther than that. The biggest, strongest women still cannot compete with, with the best men.

09:29

It's just, it's just, it's a, it's a physical impossibility. The physics just aren't there. It's, it's, it's just so obvious.

09:36

So, uh, what's fascinating, uh, is to see

09:43

Martina back in December tweeted something and basically called men who pretend to be women to compete with women cheaters.

09:55

Now go back. You don't have to go back 20 years. You could, you could really literally only go, go back five years and most, the vast majority of people would be going, yeah, duh.

10:10

10 years, definitely, you know, five years, it's starting to change. But with a Bergefell, there it goes.

10:17

It just right out there out the window. Oh, the pushback she gets because everybody, again,

10:24

I'm assuming you know, Martina Navratilova came out long, long ago as a lesbian. I've pointed out over and over again, there is no

10:35

LGBTQ community because there is no consistency between LGBTQ, RSTUV.

10:44

They are contradictory concepts. And what's being pointed out here is that for the

10:52

L's, the T's are, it's, this is what's going on because you can't have

11:01

L and G if you don't have male and female. But T says there is no male and female.

11:08

So the only thing that holds any of this together is we hate God's law and you can't create a community out of that.

11:16

I'm sorry. It's a total negative thing. And so there's nothing positive to hold this community together than your common hatred of God's law and how you're supposed to live.

11:25

So to honor him and reflect him and to flourish yourself. So she puts out this tweet, man, she gets attacked.

11:34

And what's fascinating is she goes back. She says, I wonder if I'm wrong. She does a bunch of reading and comes back out in an interview a few days ago and says,

11:45

I've done my research and all it has done is confirmed me even more strongly that if you are a biological male, if you, uh, were a functioning, non -surgically and chemically altered male up into purity, puberty,

12:11

I can say it right, puberty, um, that's it. It doesn't matter. If you start taking hormones after that,

12:17

I think your, your bone structure, your sinews, your muscles, your arterial system, uh, the very makeup of your, your blood itself has been for the rest of your life permanently determined by your sex, whether you're a male or a female and the male, because of primarily testosterone, but then there are secondary results because of that, the male is going to have an advantage.

12:46

Even if you cut back testosterone later in life, you still got stronger, thicker muscles, you you've got stronger connections, uh, bones.

12:58

That's just the way it is. And so she just stands up on the basis of fact and says, this is the way it is.

13:07

You're cheating. And she has been removed from her positions of representative hair and taken off this board over there and all this kind of stuff, which is exactly what you would expect of totalitarian leftists.

13:24

They will eat their own. They will eat anybody because as I said on Twitter, totalitarians, totalitarian, that's what they do.

13:34

That's their nature. And we, and, and our culture is dumb enough to elect them to office.

13:43

Hey, isn't it great folks that, um, that Bernie Sanders is running for president.

13:51

I could, could you find out for me, how old is Bernie Sanders? I I'd like to know how old

13:57

Bernie Sanders is because, uh, I've been seeing a lot of pretty funny memes on, uh, on Facebook and, uh, and Twitter, uh, about, about a toothless

14:06

Bernie. Um, did you get, you got something? Bernie is 77. 77. So did you hear what

14:12

Tucker, Tucker Carlson said the other day? So if he's 77 now, then he'd be 78 or nine, depending on where his birthday is, uh, at the time of the election.

14:23

Sure. Nine, at least nine. Yeah. I did not hear what Tucker, well, I listened to Tucker Carlson.

14:28

He made the point that he's, he's convinced that Bernie Sanders uses a balloon to comb his hair.

14:34

A balloon. Yep. Yeah. Did you, did you see the meme where is

14:43

Bernie Sanders with a vice president, uh, Alexandria Ocasio -Cortez, which of course can't happen because she's actually not old enough to run for that office.

14:51

Um, but, and it says make, make us Venezuela. Yeah, that's, that's exactly what it's all about.

14:59

Yeah. Yeah. Well, anyway, uh, we, we keep electing these folks and they keep bowing down to this agenda.

15:08

And all you gotta do is look at it and realize, wow, what a mess this is.

15:18

Intersectionality, concepts of oppression and all this non -biblically defined, and I know,

15:26

I know, I know. There's all sorts of Christians that say, well, the Bible teaches this. And then you try to really pin them down next to Jesus.

15:33

And what they're really doing is they're saying, well, I can read the

15:38

Bible. The sojourners, for example, I can read the Bible in a way it's consistent with socialistic concepts.

15:44

I can read the Bible as if the biblical concept of justice is economic equality, that everyone has the same amount.

15:53

Now that's never happened on earth. It will never happen on earth. Um, it can't happen on earth.

15:59

It's been promised over and over again. And every time it fails, because if you have a biblical anthropology, then you go, oh yeah, that's really going to work.

16:09

Yeah. We can trust the government people to always make sure that everybody has the same right.

16:16

It's a, it's, it's so naive that it's, it's just like, really, uh, do you sell used cars or just what?

16:22

I mean, honestly. Um, but there will be people who will say, well, you know, biblically justice is everybody having the same, you know, you know, having economic equality with one another when the scriptures never teach that the scriptures teach that those who are rich are not to oppress the poor.

16:44

But the scriptures also teach that in the court of law, you are not to give any extra credit to the poor over the rich or vice versa.

16:56

Hmm. This idea that biblically socialism communism, this is what it was all about is only able to be substantiated by people who do not believe that you have to interpret the

17:13

Bible as a whole, that you have to allow the Bible as a whole to speak, they, they, they have to just take one little thing here.

17:21

One little thing there, practice their eisegesis. And that's what sojourners is all about. That's what the left is all about.

17:27

Um, that's, and unfortunately that's what you're now going to have coming to your local

17:34

Baptist church. Um, because what we are seeing is what we're seeing is the final fruit of the dumbing down and denigration of the public educational system.

17:59

And hence the thought processes of the voting public within the

18:05

United States. It's taken a long time, but they've been patient and they've managed to do it.

18:11

Um, there was a day when education involved teaching people how to think, not what to think and to teach people how to think meant challenging them to think critically.

18:33

And what that means was to examine foundational presuppositions in an argument, to examine arguments as to whether they're based upon factuality, uh, probabilities, the whole concept of logic.

18:53

Yes. Logic. Um, the, the proper forms of argumentation.

19:01

What is wrong with ad hominem argumentation? What is wrong with the excluded middle and what the law of non -contradiction is and modus polens and modus tolens and, and all the different aspects of symbolic logic and things used to be something that you could expect.

19:21

At least of a, of a freshman in college. Now, literacy itself is not something you can necessarily expect of a freshman in college.

19:32

Um, and as a result, people who have not been taught to think in a critical fashion, and by the way, if you read the

19:41

Bible and you read it, well, the Bible will teach you critical thought. Yeah, it will.

19:50

Um, you, you will not be able to make heads or tails out of the Bible. If you do not apply meaningful categories of interpretation to be able to follow the story, to be able to, to, if you look at how the new

20:02

Testament understands the old Testament and makes application, this requires critical thought. This requires you to do something more than just go.

20:11

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. While you're wearing your headphones, listening to some type of music or something like that, you actually have to take the headphones off and get into some place that's quiet.

20:19

This freaks out most millennials and people younger than them get into a place that is quiet and ponder and meditate and think, and, and you will learn critical thinking skills.

20:30

And since that has pretty much been abandoned, um, in the younger generations, they are easily manipulated.

20:41

And we are seeing this in the Southern Bapst Convention right now. We're seeing this in the

20:47

Southern Bapst Convention, uh, right now. And not just in the SBC. Let me, let me mention this before I lose this and I'll come back to the

20:55

SBC. Um, remember how long ago, it was only six months ago or so, the

21:06

Jeff and I had the little debate with our Mormon friend from Utah, it was about, about six months or so ago, something like that.

21:15

And, uh, I was taken aback to discover that later on, this young man was the head of the campus

21:25

Democrats at BYU. He and I had had this brief conversation, uh, before we got started with the program and I was,

21:35

I was taken aback with just how leftist his perspectives were.

21:42

Because that's not the history of, of, uh, of Mormonism in Utah.

21:51

And it just, it took me back. Were you there with, for the conversation with the fellow at the

22:03

South gate sometime toward, it was getting toward the end of our tenure there.

22:12

Somewhere around 2000, late nineties. Um, what was the last time

22:17

I was there? Oh, four, I forget somewhere around there before the King James only guys ruined everything.

22:23

Um, and I remember so clearly because I remember talking about with somebody when we went up to over the

22:31

LDS book of supply and I was buying a new triple or something like that. And I remember we were, I was still thinking about what this guy had said, but he had stood at the

22:39

South gate and he had pointed up, you remembering this? I've told the story. So maybe you weren't there.

22:45

Okay. He, he's pointing up at the, at the spire, uh, at the temple.

22:53

And he says in 20 years, there'll be a cross on top of that spire. And I was like, you know, cause back then still the vast majority of Mormons, if I had had a cross, if I didn't wear my crosses,

23:10

I love wearing my cross. By the way, it's the one Roman Catholic goes, look, it's a beaded thing.

23:15

Maybe he's become Roman. It's Navajo. I happen to love

23:21

Navajo stuff. I love turquoise and coral and onyx and in sterling silver.

23:28

When I drive up to one of the things I love doing when I drive up to Utah is, is there's when you go through the reservation, there's all sorts of places you can just pull off and man, those folks make some beautiful stuff.

23:39

And so I've got some beautiful Indian, uh, crosses and stuff. They're just, I've got that one little one that, that they made out of this.

23:46

Like, what is that stuff called? It, it just, it glows orange. I mean, it just, when it catches any light at all, it's just, and I got that on the reservation, you know,

23:55

I pulled over one day and I said, Whoa, got to get that. Um, so that's what those things are, by the way, just for the

24:02

Romanists who are going, Oh, it's a beaded rose. You're like, it's Navajo. Hello. Anyway. Um, how'd

24:09

I get onto that? Uh, it's a cross thing. Oh yeah. If I was back then, if I, if I hadn't had a cross on my thing or something like that, you, you'd still get, remember the young missionaries that come up to us and they would say, well, if you're, if you're, if your son was stabbed to death, would you wear a knife around your neck?

24:27

Uh, type of a thing. And so to have a, a Mormon go 20 years now, there's gonna be a cross up there.

24:36

This guy was basically, he was ahead of the curve. He was seeing stuff from the inside that we weren't seeing yet.

24:42

He was seeing the changes. What does all this have to do with where we are right now? Um, article, will

24:51

Utah be the 16th state to ban conversion therapy for gay teens?

25:00

And the Mormon church has come out and said, um, we will not stand against this.

25:15

Mormonism has no, Mormonism has become a jellyfish. There's, and when you think about it, it makes sense with all the years when we've had to deal with the

25:28

Mormon testimony and the subjective feelings and all the rest of that stuff, but still back then they still had a core that said

25:36

Joseph Smith really experienced these things. And he really had the first vision and we're really the one true church.

25:41

Now that that's even been sort of abandoned and put off to the side, what's left?

25:49

There's no skeleton. It's like that one guy in that one, um,

25:55

X -Men thing where he gets exposed to some, that radiation stuff and turns into a blob of, of, um, uh,

26:04

Clementine is calling me right now, uh, on, on FaceTime here, here. I won't be able to put it on Clementine.

26:11

I'm doing the dividing line right now. And, and you're on the dividing line here, here, here, everybody say hi to Clementine.

26:17

Say hi to everybody. Clementine. You're on the dividing line right now.

26:23

Isn't that cool? Oh yeah. Do you, do you remember when you, you don't, do you remember when you were on the dividing line when you were like two?

26:33

Probably don't remember that. Do you? No, no. You came in here and you sat right here and before you came in, oh,

26:40

I picked you up and I put me on, on you on my lap and you go, shoes off, shoes off because you still have your shoes on.

26:47

You didn't think you're supposed to have your shoes on. So, so you go, shoes off, shoes off. That's all you said. So we're recording right now.

26:55

You'll be able to watch this when we, it's live, it's live right now. Yeah. Yeah.

27:01

Yeah. There's there. Hi. Say, say hi, Katie. Says, Oh, camera is being used by another application.

27:08

Uh, hmm. Okay. Well, anyways, guys, I'll have to talk to you later. Thank you for, uh, for joining me on the program today.

27:16

We'll see ya. Bye. Hey, I'm a grandfather. My grandkids called.

27:21

Um, there you go. Um, and there's Eric going, whoops, I guess

27:26

I should watch her. Uh, that's okay. Um, so there you go.

27:33

Clementine just made a guest appearance on the dividing line via, um, um, uh,

27:39

FaceTime. So that was, that was fun. And, but she did not remember that you remember that, don't you?

27:44

So picked her up and she's, that was only like four years ago. Um, so, uh, now

27:50

I'm watching summer is traveling to a women's retreat. And so she's going, what's going on? And Eric's going, uh,

27:57

Clementine, I'm going to a women's retreat. And Clementine just FaceTimed into the dividing lines, uh, technology.

28:04

It's a wonderful thing anyways. So, um, but now Jenny and Waylon are going to be upset.

28:09

They didn't get to be on the, on the dividing line, like Katie and Clementine did, but, um, I was watching them today.

28:15

They had snow in the backyard. And so for Jenny, that was first time she'd ever seen this stuff.

28:21

What, what is, what is this stuff falling out of the sky? Uh, they're desert rats. And, uh, so, uh,

28:26

I saw a video of Jenny throwing a little snowball at Katie and, uh, either cadence

28:32

I think must be growing because she looked like a giant in comparison to Jenny's. So it was, uh, it was funny, but anyway, so, so there you go folks a little bit.

28:41

Uh, who was it yesterday that was saying that I I'm probably a real bleep, uh, to my family and that I've never changed a diaper and you know, some, some lovely woman, uh, on, uh, on Twitter or Facebook.

28:57

Yeah, it was, it was real sweet. Um, my grandkids could correct their, uh, their misapprehensions, but oh, well, we won't go there.

29:05

Okay. Um, what were we saying? Uh, so, uh, did you have something you wanted to add to help me remember where I was?

29:12

Well, I actually haven't lost track of that particular, uh, what led up to last summer's, uh, interview that you guys did with him, where there was the.

29:23

Interview I did with who? Um, Kwaku. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Uh, and the program that they did just before he came down here with the one guy, and you know what went through my mind at the time was, wow, this is our

29:37

Dennis Potter's dream world. Yep. It has come to, if any of you have watched the debate with Dennis Potter, um, he was, and became an even more interesting fellow.

29:50

Well, he became an even more interesting non -fellow. Non -fellow. Yeah. Well, he's still, anyway. Yeah, I know.

29:56

But you get the idea is that this was already happening back in the early 2000s.

30:02

Yeah. And we just didn't see it. Uh, it's not the first thing we would think about, you know?

30:08

I mean, it's, this is, this is not, this ain't normal thinking. Anyways, my point is

30:14

Mormonism has not only lost its way, but it has no moral compass any longer.

30:21

And so here you have Utah, 16 state to ban conversion therapy for gay teens, question mark.

30:27

It hasn't happened yet, but it probably will. Now we could stop here and talk a lot about Mormon anthropology, which is grossly unbiblical.

30:37

If you have such a grossly unbiblical view of God, that you're a polytheist and think

30:42

God wants a man to live on another planet, um, then you're going to have a grossly unbiblical anthropology and hence no basis whatsoever to offer up any meaningful resistance to the moral revolution that we are facing today in our society and Mormonism is just going along, it will be the end of the

31:06

Mormon church, because once you start, I mean, can there be anything more obviously central to the

31:15

Mormon doctrine of God than gender? I mean, Mormonism is about, is about a patriarchal system as you can possibly have.

31:25

I mean, God, the body, God, the father has a body of flesh and bones with which he can have sex with the

31:33

Virgin Mary. He is a male, he has male genitalia. So how can, once Mormonism can start spiritualizing that away, it's the end of Mormonism.

31:47

I mean, it will end up going the way of all the, the leftist, liberal,

31:54

Protestant denominations, and obviously at some point it's going to shatter because I don't see, it's possible, maybe it'll just die with a whimper, but in most situations at some point, those folks down around Manti are going to say, enough of that, and they're going to bolt.

32:18

So yeah, so that, that takes me back to the

32:24

Southern Baptist. The Houston Chronicle story that we mentioned last week about sex abuse, the

32:38

Southern Baptist Me Too moment. First of all, do y 'all remember right after I got back from Munster that I played portions of J .D.

32:51

Greer's sermon and interacted with it? Y 'all remember what he said during that?

32:59

I didn't queue it up. I could have, but I didn't, because I'm not trying to rub it in, but remember when he said, he quoted a lady from their church who does teaching there?

33:14

Don't tell me that complementarianism is on the decline amongst Southern Baptists. It's about dead.

33:23

Egalitarianism is winning by default. Where he quoted her saying, when the

33:28

Bible talks about sexual sins, it whispers. As I said on Facebook this morning, that sermon hasn't aged well, has it?

33:41

Given that it's only a month and a half old. Yeah. Ouch.

33:50

Looking at this situation, again, let me just repeat what we started saying last year.

33:59

The social justice train is a train and the engine is followed by the boxcars and the boxcars are containing a bunch of stuff.

34:14

On the outside, all it says is the beauty of justice, but on the inside, you've got everything.

34:23

You've got egalitarianism. Basically, the idea is we have a crisis.

34:33

Now, the crisis may be a real crisis. It may be a manufactured crisis. It could be the actor saying that he's been beat up by people wearing

34:45

MAGA hats. Or let's go back into ancient history to the Covington, Kentucky Catholic boys.

34:53

Realize, for most people, that is ancient history. That is how short our attention span is anymore. Anybody in a

35:02

MAGA hat, and have you seen the MAGA hats that say,

35:07

Make Alexandria Go Away? That's still

35:12

MAGA, that's one worth wearing, but it can be manufactured, it can be real, but what you do, and this is how the left is destroying

35:32

Western culture, and it's purposeful. It is absolutely purposeful.

35:37

That doesn't mean everybody on the left has read the books, gotten the memo. It's not some big, huge conspiracy thing, but the people, the

35:46

George Soros's of the world with their money, this is what they want. They want to fundamentally disunite, take apart, destroy fundamentally at its foundations

36:00

Western culture, and to do that, you have to go after its Judeo -Christian history and worldview, the relationship of its people and the family, which includes in the family, sexual identity, gender, father, mother, what marriage is.

36:18

You get rid of those things, there's no Western culture left. And you have anarchy, and then you can bring in a totalitarian system, and there is no question in my mind.

36:29

You explain to me how we've gone from 1980 to 2020.

36:36

You explain to me, and what you're going to see is this movement, and how are they doing it?

36:44

Create a crisis. It can be a real crisis, it can be a natural disaster, it can be a real humanitarian situation, or make it up.

36:59

Whatever it is, and then utilize that in the minds of people who are no longer taught to think logically, they are no longer taught to think long -term, they are no longer taught to think on the basis of presuppositions of a worldview.

37:18

Convince them it's a crisis, and what do we see around us all the time now? What do we see all the time?

37:24

We've got to do something now. We've got to do something now. Even if it's the dumbest thing we've ever done, we've got to do something now.

37:32

And that's how you get action. That's how you get people to do things. And what we're seeing in the

37:40

SBC is, oh my goodness, look at all these terrible things happening, look at what happened with Paige Patterson, look at now the

37:52

Houston Chronicle story, look at this, look at that. And so what we're going to do is we're going to make fundamental changes, and we're going to create – and it's not going to be, we're going to stop and pray and focus ever more upon biblical categories, holiness in the

38:19

Church, accountability. We're not going to look at our decades -long mistake of letting people think that they call themselves to the ministry.

38:29

We're not going to look at our ecclesiology and recognize the New Testament actually teaches the plurality of elders and not a single pastor with deacons pretending they're elders.

38:38

We're not going to – no, no, no, no, no, none of that stuff. No, no, no, let's not go there. Let's not have a Regenerate Church membership.

38:44

Let's not prune our roles so that you only have people who are actually coming that you can actually observe and pastor and so on.

38:51

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, we won't do any of that. Instead, let's totally change our approach and start creating all these extra biblical categories and authorities and registries and let's elect a woman as the president of the

39:11

Southern Bapst Convention while we're at it and let's change – let's go ahead and give in on the complementary and egalitarian thing and let's just buy the whole cultural contextualization of the texts and all that stuff about creation mandate and the role of man – let's not worry about any of that kind of stuff at all.

39:31

And let's just go with the culture. And what you're seeing – there are people standing up to it.

39:43

But what you're seeing is if it's left unchecked, we'll put the

39:49

SBC right back where it was in the 1970s. The entire, quote -unquote, conservative resurgence will be done away with and you'll be right back –

39:59

Southern Seminary will be right back to where it was before Mueller. If it's not checked.

40:06

And so, let me – there's one other thing I wanted to get to and then let's go ahead and open the phones at 877 -753 -3341.

40:16

877 -753 -3341 is the phone number, 877 -753 -3341, which leads me to another issue.

40:31

Much of what I just mentioned was brought out in an article that on Facebook or Twitter, maybe both –

40:46

I thought it was just one. On the last program, I mentioned – very briefly, it didn't take much time – but I mentioned with some level of humor the fact that this will surely get me into trouble.

41:03

But I mentioned that I had referred people to an article on the subject of Al Mueller's apology and the

41:19

Sovereign Grace stuff that was written by Douglas Wilson. And I sort of did the same eye roll in looking at Rich and I said, of course,

41:31

I asked people to set aside their prejudices, their agendas, and just read the article and think about it.

41:44

People can't do that. People cannot do that. I had a conversation with my daughter yesterday while I was driving back from the

41:51

East Valley and we've all seen

41:58

Trump derangement syndrome. I mean, there are people – Trump could give every dime he possesses to build houses for the poor and stuff like that.

42:13

It would not matter to these people. They are deranged.

42:18

There is a complete lack of objectivity. There is a complete lack of logic.

42:23

It is 1000 % animus and emotion, 0 % logical rationality.

42:34

There is an anti -Doug Wilson derangement syndrome, too. Now, I've seen anti -James

42:40

White derangement syndrome. I've met people that just – it doesn't matter. I could – there is nothing

42:45

I could say or do that these people could ever be gracious enough to consider to be anything other than just hatred and arrogance and nastiness.

42:58

There are people like that, but I can't hold a candle to Doug Wilson on this one.

43:04

Can't do it. You even mentioned the name and it's just like people who otherwise would be willing to listen to you or talk to you just mention the name and it's just like whispering

43:20

Voldemort. It really is. I've just never seen anything like it other than Trump derangement syndrome.

43:29

I've seen it amongst the left in regards to – but amongst Christians. I mean, there was a thread on Facebook, mainly women.

43:38

Mainly women. I tried to make a comment about it because I was just – because I had posted this, just a link to a single article.

43:49

Oh my goodness. The vile, the tuperation, the running violation of every single biblical mandate as to the control of the tongue.

44:03

From Christians, just vomiting hatred from their mouths.

44:08

Just how fast can I say I hate Doug Wilson and how many different ways it's just like, whoa, unbelievable to watch this.

44:18

Stunning. It really, really is. And I asked, just read the article and listen to what it's saying.

44:28

People can't do that. They just can't. It's stunning. Let me just mention what

44:35

I found to be important in the article because I just said all of it.

44:43

And if you weren't sitting there going, that's terrible, that's horrible, then why are you saying that's terrible, that's horrible when somebody else says it?

44:49

Because I'm prejudiced. Well, be honest about it. Just be straight up about it. I just don't like that man because of this thing over there.

44:58

I think I know everything about that thing. By the way, can I just mention something? People wonder why

45:06

I would be hesitant to jump into internal church situations from a church

45:14

I've never been at and haven't been within hundreds of miles of. And that's because I've been an elder in a church for decades.

45:22

I know that situations very frequently arise. And anybody who's been an elder, that's why

45:28

I do not understand people who've been in eldership who do this type of thing. But things arise in the life of the church where when the situation is concluded in the life of the church, discipline's taken place, or it's been chosen discipline's not going to take place, or restoration has taken place, whatever.

45:52

From that point on, the elder cannot run to Facebook and talk about these things.

45:58

You there are things that you can't talk about. And so if other people run off and start making claims, you just have to go,

46:11

I can't talk about that. I can't defend myself about that. And so I know there's always not just a second side, but probably a third side and a fourth side.

46:23

And then there's the tertiary fifth side over there. I recognize the reality of that. And so it's stunning to me how many people who are actually in eldership, in the position of eldership, just will join in with the mob.

46:43

And that was part of what the issue was. If you just looked at the article, and I realize some of you just wouldn't even do this, one of the first comments in that Facebook thread was,

46:54

I'm not going to read the article, but you're an idiot for sharing. It's just like, ah, wow.

47:00

Okay. Let me break down since, if you don't want to read it, let me just break it down.

47:08

There is a biblical standard of judgment. Two or three witnesses. And mobs are not vehicles for God's justice, even when they are made up of weeping, crying, also sensitive, lovely people who call themselves

47:24

Christians. It's still a mob. And this is not how biblical justice is to be done.

47:31

The funny thing is here, when was, was that, was it

47:38

November was the Kavanaugh hearings? October? Okay. October, November.

47:45

Not that long ago, many of the very same people who are forming a mob now, were all upset because a mob was being formed to go after Judge Kavanaugh.

48:04

The very same people who once talked about due process, not worried about now, there has to be some type of consistency.

48:13

There has to be some level of consistency here. So if you recognize that the left was railroading

48:22

Justice Kavanaugh, then you can't then just turn that off later on in another situation.

48:31

The same biblical standards have to apply. Whether you like them or not, whether it makes you popular or not, it doesn't matter.

48:41

Due process is due process. So here's some of the, here's some of the quotes.

48:49

In looking at investigations, did it meet the criteria? Was there an opportunity for cross -examination? Boy, we could talk about that on another issue.

48:56

Was there a presumption of innocence? Was anyone allowed to face their accuser? Was there time allotted for both the prosecution and the defense?

49:04

Due process is a good thing. Yeah, exactly.

49:10

And what you need to understand, I keep mentioning this, and I imagine a lot of people are just tired of it, but I can't get out of my mind the

49:20

Stasi prison in East Germany. Well, it's in Berlin now, but former East Germany, where the totalitarian communist socialist mindset would imprison people for the sole purpose not to try to protect other people or anything like that, but to break the individual, their whole purpose.

49:42

It's 1984 all over. If you've read 1984, this was what happens in 1984.

49:48

You break the person. You get them to love big brother. Then you kill him. But you had to break him first, because that's what a totalitarian government's all about.

50:02

And so the whole issue in the Stasi prison, there was never due process.

50:10

It was a sham. You could never face your accuser. Didn't need to have an accuser.

50:17

All those fundamental things of justice, which, by the way, came from the biblical law, done away with, done away with.

50:28

We should be the people that are most sensitive to that. But when a mob forms and you buy into the, we've got to do something right now, you can't follow biblical standards of justice at that point.

50:43

You can't do that. So someone had said,

50:50

Voldemort had said, the Southern Baps convention is teetering right on the verge of getting sucked down the woke hole.

50:59

In my view, about the only person with enough throw weight to keep that from happening, and who actually might want to keep that from happening, was

51:06

Al Mohler. Again, if you didn't read it, you wouldn't notice this, but he said a lot of really positive things about Al Mohler in this article.

51:16

But evidently, he doesn't get any credit for anything positive he might say about, you know, praying for Al Mohler, but he did that terrible thing 20 years ago, so I just don't care.

51:31

Was Al Mohler, and I believe that for all intents and purposes, the bad guys have effectively neutralized him.

51:38

We'll see. It's possible. Later on, but when a horror story happens, here's the, what's called reflexivity, okay?

51:48

But when a horror story happens and someone starts using it as a lever to introduce some systemic changes in line with their agenda, and someone else responds to this proposal for systemic change with a reminder of the broader context, this is fully appropriate and necessary.

52:04

This goes double when it is obvious that the horror story was broken with an agenda in mind.

52:11

For example, we've all seen this. If there's a school shooting and someone tries to comfort us by reminding us how many schools weren't shot up that day, then he is a blockhead.

52:22

But if there is a school shooting and the first thing that happens is a full court press for gun control and someone responds with some contextualizing data, that is just what ought to happen.

52:35

So my point here is not to stand by these numbers as necessarily rock solid. I have my doubts, but it is to insist on equal weights and measures and on the need to compare apples to apples.

52:46

If we need systemic change on how to deal with sexual predation of children, then, by the way, there was a paragraph, jump paragraphs there.

52:56

He talked about the sexual abuse of students in the public school system with literally not 700, not 7 ,000, not 70 ,000, not 700 ,000, but millions of students that have been impacted.

53:18

That's where he was talking about these numbers. If we need systemic change in how to deal with sexual predation of children, then we need to start with the

53:26

LGBTQ plus grooming in the schools, all the sex ed courses and the informal labs out behind the gym.

53:35

Also, it is incidentally to point out that the real scandal is how many Southern Baptists still have their kids in the government school system.

53:47

I cannot conceive of how, well, first of all, why do people fear reading these words?

53:58

Because there are people that say, I won't touch it, I won't read it. Okay, then you're not going to be challenged to think about the fact that what he's saying is there's more going on here than meets the eye.

54:12

We are being convinced in the society that each one of these crises is somehow separate from the others.

54:18

They're not. And the people that are seeking to fundamentally change our society and our churches know that they're not.

54:28

They're connecting them together. They're using them that way, and we can't defend ourselves because we will not be bothered to see how they're all tied together.

54:37

That's what he said. What he said was true. If Douglas Wilson says the sky is blue, you don't have to argue that it's actually green.

54:46

And if you do go that far, I feel sorry for you. I really do.

54:52

I just don't get this stuff. I don't. But anyhow, like I said,

54:59

I asked people, set aside your prejudices. And for some people, that is not possible to do.

55:13

Okay, let's see. We've got 14 minutes, 27 seconds. But we do have somebody paying money to call long distance, right?

55:26

All right, so I'll be good to the... Well, I'm not sure if it... Long distance used to be a lot different than it is today.

55:33

Have you noticed that? Long distance used to be really expensive. Remember, you'd get all those things on your phone bill, and we don't do that anymore.

55:41

But there you go. Yeah, very good.

55:48

All right, but let's help with the long distance charges, if there are any, and start off with Gregory in the

55:54

West Indies. Hi, Gregory. Good day, Dr. Wright. God bless you. Yes, sir.

56:00

And yes, and great to speak to you once more again. Now, I'm calling concerning an issue in the argument between Calvinism and Arminianism.

56:13

For example, I have heard Dr. Brown use this argument, who is a good brother in the

56:21

Lord Jesus Christ, and thank God for his ministry. He does a lot for the Lord Jesus Christ. But I've heard him in refuting

56:30

Arminianism, when the argument is brought up concerning John chapter 6, where it is said that God draws his intellect, and his drawing cannot be resisted.

56:46

And Dr. Brown would come to act with the argument, and I think the last time

56:52

I've heard him use that was in his debate with, I think, Hernandez, something like that? Yes, Sonny Hernandez. Some kind of name like that?

56:58

Yes, Sonny Hernandez. And Sonny Hernandez brought up this argument. I think he's a hyper -Calvinist.

57:04

But he brought up this argument concerning John chapter 6, and Dr. Brown countered it with, but in the

57:11

Old Testament, God draws Israel.

57:16

The Old Testament said God drew Israel, but Israel resisted the drawing of God.

57:22

And he used that argument against Sonny to show that God's drawing can be resisted, because in the

57:29

Old Testament, Israel resisted the drawing of God when he said God had drew them.

57:34

Right. Right. Well, yeah, I heard that, and I just asked

57:41

Michael, actually, just now, when we can reschedule what we are going to try to do right before I headed to Germany and Russia, which was due our atonement discussion here on the program.

57:56

So we'll probably get that done over the next couple of weeks. Anyway, well, I was obviously disappointed in Dr.

58:06

Hernandez's arguments, and especially when he's right there in the text that would be such a strong place.

58:17

Dr. Hernandez, I think, wasted a tremendous amount of time parsing Greek verbs, as if that was relevant to the subject, and did not challenge

58:27

Dr. Brown, as I will have to challenge Dr. Brown, because Michael said, show me any place where the drawing of God automatically results in the salvation of a person.

58:40

And I'm like, okay, there it is! There's a setup! There's the tossing of the softball, now knock it out of the park!

58:47

And Hernandez wouldn't do it. But I would point out that textually at John 644, here's the issue, and I know

58:58

I've covered it again, you've probably heard it, but let me make sure everybody is understanding what's being said here.

59:05

In John 644, after the – and I always hesitate a little bit to talk about 644 without having established the context back to at least verse 37 with the assertion, all the

59:21

Father gives me will come to me, the one come to me I will never cast out, the sons come down of heaven to do the will of the

59:27

Father, and the Father's will that he – of all he gives him, he loses none of them, it's all sovereignty of God, power of God, perfect unity of the

59:35

Father and the Son and salvation, centrality of Jesus, all the rest of that stuff, which results then in the grumbling of the

59:43

Jews, you know, who does this man think he is? And Jesus' response to them is, no one is able to come to me unless, except the

59:58

Father, the one who sent me, draws him and I will raise him up on the last day.

01:00:05

So, when we see that phrase, unless the Father who sent me draws him, what happens is, as you just enunciated, the

01:00:13

Arminian will say, yeah, but God draws all sorts of people. He drew the

01:00:18

Israelites in the Old Testament, or John 1232 says, if I be lifted up,

01:00:24

I'll draw all men unto myself. And so, drawing is just a prevenient grace -type thing.

01:00:30

It is an extent – we have to have God's grace, but God's grace just simply brings us to a position of, like, moral neutrality or someplace where we can accept

01:00:39

Jesus or concepts like this. And what I have emphasized over and over again is that requires you to shoehorn, to insert an entire theology into John 644 between the words auton and kago.

01:00:58

So, you have the one who sent me draws him and I, kago is a crassus of kai and ago, and I will raise him on the last day.

01:01:12

So, what is necessary, and what I'll challenge Michael on this, and I say this publicly because when

01:01:22

Michael and I are talking, we're not trying to catch each other up, we're not trying to trick each other, we're actually trying to get somewhere in a discussion.

01:01:30

The first auton, unless I draw him and I will raise him, kago anastasia auton, the second auton, in Arminian theology, those are two different hymns.

01:01:44

Because in between, and there's only two words between the two autons, but somewhere in there is an entire theology of free will, autonomous creaturely will, prevenient grace, and all the rest of the stuff.

01:02:02

And I can't find it, I've looked at a lot of different manuscripts, I've never found it there, but that's the

01:02:08

Arminian position, is that the first hymn is everybody, and the second hymn is the person it chooses.

01:02:16

Whereas anyone simply reading the text and not inserting anything there would have to come to the conclusion that the autons are identical.

01:02:27

And in fact, on any grammatical level, using the crassus kago anastasia, and I will raise him up on the last day,

01:02:36

I could make a strong argument that they would have to be identical to one another.

01:02:43

There's no way to split them up. And so, what that means is whoever is drawn by the

01:02:49

Father is raised up by the Son. Now, you could argue that being raised up in the last day doesn't necessarily mean to salvation, but in this context, it does.

01:02:57

Because Jesus said, all the Father gives me, I will raise them up on the last day. That's being raised up to eternal life.

01:03:03

So, this is salvation. And so, what 644 does say, it fulfills the exact challenge that Michael made to Sonny Hernandez.

01:03:14

Show me a place where everyone who is drawn is necessarily saved.

01:03:20

Well, it's John 644, because no one has the ability to come to the Son unless they're drawn, and if they are drawn by the

01:03:28

Father, they will be raised up by the Son unto eternal life. So, if everybody's drawn, then this is universalism.

01:03:35

Everybody will be raised up to eternal life. Otherwise, it's Reformed theology. Those that are drawn by the

01:03:41

Father are the elect, those are the ones that are raised up by Jesus, and then that's proven by 645.

01:03:47

Because not everybody is taught by God, not everyone learns from God, but everyone who hears from the

01:03:55

Father and is learning from him comes to Jesus. That's the effect of the drawing in our own experience, in our own life.

01:04:03

So, I was disappointed, because I was just, I was very, it wasn't disappointed, I was frustrated, extremely, at that point, when, you know, here you've got this opportunity, and instead we got a first -year

01:04:18

Greek lesson that didn't communicate anything at all. It was terrible. Yes, thank you very much for the expression.

01:04:25

Well, the call keeps on going out and in, so I'm going to listen to the program to get straight to what you said, because the call keeps on going out and in.

01:04:33

All right, thank you! But, yeah, can I say something else? Yes. So basically, yes, basically, the drawing in the

01:04:41

Old Testament of Israel is a different drawing to the elect in John chapter 6.

01:04:47

To try to connect the two contexts of the patient, prophetic ministration of prophets and so on and so forth with Israel in the

01:04:57

Old Testament is to make the confusion between the Old Covenant and New Covenant.

01:05:04

There's a difference between the two covenants, and in the New Covenant, everybody, from the least to the greatest of them, knows him, whereas in the

01:05:12

Old Covenant, you had a mixed covenant. So, the drawing would be different, the effect of the drawing, the purpose of the drawing, it'd all be different.

01:05:18

Jesus doesn't make that connection in John 6, so that would be bringing in a foreign context. Thank you very much,

01:05:24

I appreciate it. Thank you, Gregory. May God bless both you and Dr. Brown and your ministry.

01:05:30

God bless you all. God bless. All right, bye -bye. All right, we'll probably just take these next three, and they're all right about the same one here.

01:05:39

So, hmm, don't have any idea what this means, but let's talk to Emery in Kentucky.

01:05:45

Hi, Emery. Hi, Dr. Wade. Thank you very much for taking my call. Yes, sir. I've been busy at West Street the last year.

01:05:54

I've been to Midlandsboro a couple times, though. Are you on a speakerphone?

01:06:03

No, sir, I'm on a Bluetooth, but I am driving, and I got a big old van that's quite loud.

01:06:09

Would you like me to try to speak to my phone? I don't know. I'm only getting about 60 % of what you're saying, so I'm going to have to guess at what your question is.

01:06:18

Can you hear me better now, sir? Yes, I can. Oh, excellent. My question is in relation to the cult

01:06:26

World Church of God. I think they're from Korea, and we were meeting with—me and a friend of mine were meeting with this guy, and we figured, you know, we'll ask him, okay, so what is the gospel?

01:06:39

And he started off by going to Mark and saying, well, the gospel is the person and work of Christ. And Christ said that, you know, you had to be baptized, so baptism is an integral part of the gospel.

01:06:51

And then he went on to say, and we need to keep these feast days, so you can't be saved unless you're keeping these feasts and you're worshiping on Saturday, on the

01:07:03

Sabbath, and he tied that back to, of course, the Fourth Commandment. So my question was, as relates to the

01:07:12

Fourth Commandment, we kind of got sidetracked on that, but I thought it was an interesting challenge, because I've never been challenged on why do we worship on Sunday as opposed to Saturday, and how would that tie into the giving of the

01:07:27

Mosaic Law? I didn't catch the last part. Tie into what? The giving of the

01:07:33

Mosaic Law, the Ten Commandments. Oh, my. Okay, well, fundamentally, the answer to that's going to be found in understanding the concept of Kuriakei Hemera, the

01:07:52

Lord's Day, in regards to the early churches gathering on the

01:08:01

Lord's Day, the Day of the Lord's Resurrection, which was after the

01:08:07

Sabbath. And then, of course, you get the extended argument made by some strongly within the

01:08:19

Reformed community that there is a wholesale transfer of Old Covenant concepts of Sabbath to the new

01:08:32

Christian Sabbath, which becomes the Lord's Day in light of the Resurrection. And that is much more of a concept that is developed in the 1600s, and I personally don't know of any patristic viewpoint on that.

01:08:55

I think that is much more of a modern concept, but it's generally argued out of Hebrews chapter four and the

01:09:03

Sabbath rest material that is found in that particular chapter.

01:09:09

I've always said that, especially when it comes to apologetics and dealing with people who are trying to enforce a salvific

01:09:21

Sabbatarianism, in essence, it sounds like what this person is attempting to do, that it's going to be very complicating to try to engage that from the

01:09:38

Puritan perspective. The more Continental view, I think, is a little bit easier to defend on an exegetical basis, and that is a focus upon Revelation chapter one, the use of that phrase curiae cae haemera.

01:09:52

You also find it in Paul. Curiae cae haemera simply means the Lord's Day. And it's pretty easy to establish between the

01:10:00

New Testament and then the earliest patristic documents that the curiae cae haemera was on Sunday, and so John was in the

01:10:08

Spirit on the Lord's Day and so on and so forth, and that it was not an attempt to transfer the

01:10:19

Sabbath as a whole as it functioned under the Old Covenant into the

01:10:24

New Covenant with the same strictures. Instead, the Resurrection is such a history -changing reality that the

01:10:37

Church gathers on that day because she always lives in the light of the Resurrection, and hence, commemorates that in her worship of a risen

01:10:46

Lord, not just one who is prophesied from the Old Covenant but now has truly risen from the dead and is in his

01:10:57

Church and is building his body, the Church. It almost sounds like the only way this guy could make the type of arguments he's making is he, does he in some way have a modified canon or at least a minimalization of Paul or something?

01:11:14

It sounded like it. Well, I'm not so sure about that, but I do know that they believe that Christ came back in the 40s and was from South Korea, and there was also the

01:11:25

Holy Spirit who came back as a man. Oh, Unification Church? Their website is

01:11:32

World Church Mission, or World Mission Church of God, I believe.

01:11:38

Yeah, that almost sounds like a... With the Mother God. That sounds like a split off from the

01:11:45

Moonies, the Unification Church or something, but I can't keep up with all the plethora of Korean, Asian cult groups.

01:11:54

There are a lot of them out there. I used to try to keep up with some of those things, but it's sort of hard to today. Yeah, so...

01:12:01

So if, back to the question, if, then how, well, it sounds like, obviously,

01:12:09

I guess from the apostolic example, we were meeting on Sunday, how does that then tie in with, you said, you know, not necessarily a full bringing over of the

01:12:24

Old Covenant Sabbath to Sunday, how does that, how do we tie that together?

01:12:30

I'm kind of wondering. Well, again, amongst Reformed folks, I want to just refer you to, you know, there are entire presentations by really sharp folks, normally based on Hebrews 4, that will give you the best argument that you can get for the transferal in toto of the

01:12:55

Sabbath to the first day of the week. I can't give that to you because I can't defend that.

01:13:03

I've never been able to defend that. So for me, if I can't defend it in a debate, I tend to go, well,

01:13:11

I appreciate those that have that perspective, but I can't go that far because I would have to adopt different forms of hermeneutics and exegesis to be able to do that.

01:13:24

So I found years ago, when I first started dealing, especially with Seventh -day Adventists, I had a bunch of Seventh -day

01:13:31

Adventists in my family, I found a book called From Sabbath to Lord's Day to have some,

01:13:37

I didn't agree with everything in it, but there, especially the historical stuff was really, really useful. I'm not even sure if it's in print anymore, but it's probably available, used or something like that from Amazon.

01:13:48

It might be, I don't know, I haven't looked at it for years, but the historical material, especially on Crea Cae Humera, that wasn't

01:13:55

Beckwith, who was it that, I forget who, there was one particular chapter on the patristic utilization of Crea Cae Humera and the identification of that, that was particularly compelling when

01:14:08

I was in Bible college. So that shows you how long ago it was. It is written in Sanskrit, so you'll have to do some translation of that.

01:14:16

That's a joke, but anyway. I'm sorry, I'm breaking up.

01:14:22

Thank you so much for your time, Dr. White. I appreciate it. Thank you, Emory. All right, bye -bye. Bye. Bluetooth destroys humor, that's just a...

01:14:34

Okay, Corbin in Florida. Hi, Corbin. Hello, thanks for taking my call.

01:14:41

Can you hear me okay? I'm off the headset now. Yes, uh -huh. Yeah, so I'm somebody who is aspiring to be a pastor one day, and I've had leaders, elders in my church affirm that, and I want to be an effective counselor.

01:15:00

I know that you have obviously been an elder for years and was a hospital chaplain, and you've dealt with a lot of different people, and I mean,

01:15:10

I fundamentally believe in biblical counseling. I have some friends who... I have a friend who's a psychologist, and we were having a conversation basically about integrating certain principles from psychology, not necessarily like Freudian kind of principles, but maybe like cognitive belief or something.

01:15:32

I don't know. It's not important, but I didn't know if, in your experience, if you ever gleaned any value from modern psychology, or if it's largely unuseful and really, in practice, maybe a denial of the sufficiency that we have in scripture.

01:15:51

Yeah, you know, this is one area that's about as in my wheelhouse as eschatology is.

01:16:01

I really hesitate to address anything in it because I just don't do any reading in it. I can give you personal feelings and predilections and the fact that it does seem to me that there's a tremendous amount of abandonment of biblical anthropology, but since I don't read in the area, it's not a subject that I have any comfort addressing.

01:16:26

There are lots of people who do from solid perspectives, I would guess, but it's just not my thing, and you'd have to, you'd have to inquire of them for resources and information on it.

01:16:39

It's just, I'm very upfront about the things that are not a part of my area of study, and that's definitely one of them.

01:16:48

Okay. Yeah, thank you. All right. I apologize for that, but that's, you know,

01:16:56

I can address certain things with some felicity, but that's one that's too complicated to get into without stepping on all sorts of landmines, so.

01:17:07

All righty. Okay. All right, thanks a lot. Thank you. All right, God bless. Bye -bye. All right, so let's talk to Kevin in Colorado.

01:17:13

Hi, Kevin. Hey there, James. It's a pleasure to talk to you.

01:17:19

I have an older brother who is a quite liberal Christian, and he happened to be going to, he was in San Diego, I believe, this last week, and went to some sort of forum on Church practice, modern

01:17:37

Church stuff, and he is definitely so liberal that he kind of follows some interesting characters, and he shared a pastor, his name is

01:17:45

Randy Woodley, and it looks like a YouTube video. When I looked him up,

01:17:53

I was immediately unsurprised by what I found in the title of the video is Learning from Indigenous Peoples and Ethnic Diversity, the

01:18:01

Global Church Project. Okay. And he's, I believe he's part

01:18:08

Native American, and long story short, most of what my brother touts is a lot of social justice warrior

01:18:17

Christian wokeness, for lack of a better term. So just was wondering if you had heard about them, or that movement in general?

01:18:28

Well, not that specific individual, no, and... Okay. He's got a few books out there, I guess. Well, yes, so does everybody these days, but yeah,

01:18:38

I was directed to an upcoming, what was it, freeing evangelicalism from white -centeredness,

01:18:51

I think. Right. Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. Yeah, and you know,

01:18:56

I scanned through the speakers, and this was being promoted, I think, by Anthony Bradley at King's College Graduate Westminster Theological Seminary.

01:19:07

It was either him or one of the group of the

01:19:12

BDNWLE, Jamar Tisby, Kyle J. Howard, that group of folks.

01:19:18

Somebody there was mentioning this upcoming and linking to this upcoming thing, and upon looking through the speakers, it was filled with people like what you just mentioned.

01:19:33

Even more so, it was filled with at least one board member of Matthew Vine's group,

01:19:43

The Reformation Project. So again, the woke train has many cars in it, and they're all connected together, whether you want them there or not.

01:19:56

Once you open the door to the first car of the woke train, the rest is coming with it, and you can't get the door closed again because there's no place to close it.

01:20:06

That is the issue, yeah. But indigenous theology, yeah, sorry, but you know,

01:20:13

I may love Navajo jewelry, but that doesn't mean that I find the indigenous religions of the

01:20:25

American Indian population, which were primarily focused upon nature, animism, and things like that, to be something that I want to sort of bring into, and I'll never forget years ago.

01:20:40

Were you thinking about, yeah, Rich was thinking about the same thing. I was asked to run a

01:20:45

TV camera. When I was much younger, I ran TV camera at a local large

01:20:50

Southern Baptist church, and I was pretty good at it, so I actually could do it professionally. And I was hired as a part of a group to run camera at the, who was it, the

01:21:06

Anglicans? Episcopalians? I think it was the Episcopalians. It was the Episcopalians had a convention here in Phoenix, and we were shooting, practicing the beginning of it, and they had these people praying at the four points of the compass, including praying for your children, gay and straight, and all the rest of that stuff.

01:21:30

And then they had an Indian medicine doctor come in and do an Indian medicine dance as part of the opening prayers.

01:21:41

And I remember, you know, if you've seen television guys, they've got these headsets, and they have little microphones on them, so you've got a thing on your -

01:21:52

Yeah, your intercom. And so I sort of leaned into my camera, and I clicked the intercom, and I said, okay guys, when the roof falls in,

01:22:00

I'm diving under my camera. So yeah, but yeah, the left is real big into this, hey, let's just let all the other religions in here and let's not worry about that, so yeah.

01:22:16

Yeah, I saw about a 20 -minute little interview, I think it was for that seminary you just mentioned, and he started talking about life and the earth and how we treat it, and it was basically kind of moving from worshiping the

01:22:33

Creator to the created, and was talking about presence and even the peoples of the past, their presence is here, and I mean, it was just like, so crazy, and he's still a reverend, so it was just pretty wild.

01:22:47

Yeah, there's a lot of that type of stuff out there, it's just coming into circles we never expected it to. Thanks, thanks

01:22:52

Kevin. Oh hey, by the way, I'm really sorry about the fact, since you live in Colorado, that your vote doesn't count anymore,

01:22:58

I'm very sorry about that. Yeah, I'm pretty ticked. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but hey, you know, there you go, that's what happens when you elect the people you have in your governor's mansion and in the legislature.

01:23:11

That's right, that's right, we're gonna regret it in two years. Yep, sure are. All right, thanks man. Yep, have a good one, thank you.

01:23:17

All right, bye -bye. Hey, I was gonna talk about this, and give me just, this will make it a jumbo if that's all right.

01:23:25

I hadn't talked about this. Some of the stuff that is appearing in social media is stunning.

01:23:42

Everything that we're dealing with with the left spinning language, politically in western culture, we're now dealing with within the church by people who have degrees from Reformed seminaries.

01:24:05

You have people like Dr. Eric Mason in conversation with Dr. Anthony Bradley. Go back and find some of Dr.

01:24:13

Bradley's old stuff from a decade ago. You will not recognize him as the same person he is today.

01:24:21

I would say the same thing about Thabiti Anyabwili, and I was informed this week from someone, who

01:24:29

I will not name because I don't want to get him in trouble, but actually found himself speaking in a church where Kyle J.

01:24:37

Howard had been a member in years gone by, and the people there confirmed that you wouldn't recognize the

01:24:47

Kyle J. Howard of a decade ago with the Kyle J. Howard of today. And there are

01:24:52

YouTube videos of Anthony Bradley basically saying what we are saying today, 10 years ago.

01:25:03

He's not saying that now. And of course there are videos of Thabiti Anyabwili the same way.

01:25:09

I can't say, I don't know about Eric Mason. But when you have

01:25:20

Dr. Eric Mason saying things like, I have given up on evangelicalism, period. The construct is a facade.

01:25:27

Your comments on the multi -ethnic church have validity. We lost all but a few whites. The freer

01:25:32

I became as a black man. We are now a black church with the

01:25:38

African diaspora. And then you have

01:25:45

Anthony Bradley, and this was the 13th, so let's say the 21st, so eight days ago. Just one, there were a number of them.

01:25:53

So until white evangelicalism partners with the National Black Evangelical Association, etc.,

01:25:59

it's hard to believe that other agendas aren't the real agenda. Like lining up a bunch of Oreos at your seminary or Oreos planting churches for your denominations for the optics, etc.

01:26:14

And this included at one point the posting of a graphic of an Oreo, which as you know is black on the outside and white on the inside.

01:26:28

What is, I mean, I find this incredibly sad. It's hypocritical to a level that's stunning.

01:26:38

If anyone used that same kind of language in reverse, they would be said to be founding a new order of the

01:26:46

KKK. But it's okay, because there are now many people who do not believe that a black person or a black

01:26:55

Christian can be a racist, because they've accepted the redefinition of the word into something that precludes it from being a sin.

01:27:04

It's funny, on the one side they'll want to use the term racism as a sin and then redefine it to where blacks can't do it, as if blacks are precluded from certain kinds of sin by their ethnic heritage.

01:27:22

It is grossly offensive to call someone an Oreo. That requires you to read hearts.

01:27:32

It requires you to be the standard definer of what it means to be black.

01:27:39

But you'll notice all this language. I became as a black man, not as a

01:27:44

Christian man. It's a black man. Oreo. It's all about black man, not

01:27:52

Christian man. The priorities are upside down. It's not Christian first, it's ethnicity first, and then

01:27:58

Christian later. That's what this is. How can you not see this? And yet, when you point it out, you know who the first people are to rush in and start redefining the terms in defense?

01:28:12

Whites. White liberals. Because this is absolutely definitional of the narrative that they're trying to promote.

01:28:23

I was just stunned, and I keep using it. I'm using the term stunned too much.

01:28:29

I must be just walking around constantly stunned because of what's going on, how fast it's happening, and how hypocritical it is.

01:28:37

How someone who could think so clearly 10 years ago, 10 years later, is calling people

01:28:43

Oreos and saying, cool. Posting links to conferences with folks from Matthew Vine's group, speaking of cool.

01:28:54

What happened? It really is an amazing thing.

01:29:03

Lining up a bunch of Oreos at your seminary, or Oreos planting churches for your denomination for the optics.

01:29:11

Wow. There is animus in those words. If you can't see the animus in those words, you...

01:29:16

Your lenses are so thick that you're not even... Yeah. Should I say anything about the debate?

01:29:25

I didn't say anything about the debate. Let me just briefly...

01:29:35

Oh, oh, okay. I hadn't even seen that. Okay. So you were saying the same thing. Look, I am really sick of drama on this.

01:29:45

I have one reason for addressing...

01:29:50

I've still got my Greek New Testaments sitting over here. I have one reason for addressing the textual traditionalism amongst

01:30:00

Reform folks, and it is, as I have said, I am deeply concerned that the acceptance of textual traditionalism, ecclesiastical textism,

01:30:13

TR -onlyism, whatever it might be, I have more respect for ecclesiastical textism than I do

01:30:20

TR -onlyism, and both those are different than Byzantine priority. These are not the same things.

01:30:26

If you think they're the same things, you don't know what you are talking about. I'm sorry. If you...

01:30:32

I'm serious. And there's nothing wrong to not... If you're sitting there going, well, I don't know what they are, you're a meanie.

01:30:38

No. If you don't know what the difference between those things are, fine. But if you are promoting these things and going on Facebook and saying,

01:30:48

I'm perverting scripture or denying the preservation of scripture, and you don't know the difference between them, shame on you!

01:30:54

Shame on you! Because you don't know what you're talking about. You have not done your homework.

01:31:02

Anyway, on this program two days ago, what had happened, again, very clearly, very briefly, this...

01:31:14

I had been accused of denying the preservation of scripture, which is just simply untrue.

01:31:24

The proper accusation would be, you don't accept the same mechanism of preservation as this little group over here does, which is way out of the mainstream of scholarship, even in reform circles.

01:31:35

I mean, you can't go to RTS or Westminster or places like that and find their perspective predominating.

01:31:42

It doesn't. It's a minority view. The only argument we've been is, you're not a part of this minority view.

01:31:48

Yep, that's right. Long history of having been real clear on that. Um, so I had responded to this,

01:32:00

Colin Pearson had gotten involved, and I think Robert Trulove had gotten involved, and I had been directed to, and I had seen a link to Jeffrey Riddle responding to some stuff that I said about Revelation 16 .5,

01:32:20

and I downloaded the file. Long story short, right as I'm about to come to the office, I see an announcement,

01:32:26

I think it was from Robert Trulove, saying that they're going to have a conference, text and canon, in late

01:32:37

October, in where? Atlanta, Georgia. Now, why does so much stuff happen in Atlanta, Georgia?

01:32:45

Because it's easy to get there. There are all sorts of locations, all sorts of churches. It's easy to get to.

01:32:53

Atlanta is a big airport. It's a hub for many, many, many of the airlines.

01:32:59

Now, some of you may not travel. I never thought I would be a traveler, but I'm executive platinum, one world emerald.

01:33:08

That's top end. That's over a hundred thousand miles in the air every year.

01:33:15

I know Heathrow, especially Terminal 5, but Terminal 3, like the back of my hand.

01:33:22

There's a great Italian restaurant in Terminal 3. Spaghetti Bolognese is wonderful. Just don't start serving it until too late in the day.

01:33:34

So, you can get in and out of Atlanta so easily. It's nice having G3 there. I mean, getting to G3 is simple.

01:33:41

It's so easy. So, the point is, I saw that and I'm like, hey,

01:33:50

I've got an idea. Everybody has been saying, you need to debate Jeff Riddle. You need to debate this.

01:33:55

You need to quit hiding behind the dividing line. Blah, blah, blah. It's been being said for years. Okay, I'm working on a

01:34:03

PhD in this field. So, doing debates that would be relevant to that field would be great.

01:34:14

And it just so happens that at the very same time, I'm seeing other messages about another possibility in a different area,

01:34:23

Islam, about doing some debates the next weekend in London.

01:34:32

And I go, oh, okay. When we went to G3, I went straight from G3.

01:34:41

Well, okay, straight from G3. I went from Atlanta to Heathrow to, to, okay, well, didn't

01:34:51

I go, what about Munich? Well, I know I went to Moscow.

01:35:03

No, no. Okay, so how did I end up in Munich twice? You skipped Munich both times.

01:35:09

I had to go through Munich to get to Moscow. Okay, so let me explain this. You went from Atlanta to London to Moscow to Samara to Moscow, Moscow to London, London to Munich, Munich to Munster.

01:35:25

Munster was supposed to go to Frankfurt, got canceled, so you wound up back in Munich and then in London and then back to Phoenix.

01:35:32

This, folks, is how James travels. And you know how

01:35:38

James travels this way? Alone. Alone. I make it happen.

01:35:44

That's right. And when he's taking puddle jumpers to small cities, I'm, no insult intended to anybody, but it's my job to maximize the amount of time and travel to get to places.

01:35:59

If he goes to Atlanta and then comes back to Phoenix and then turns around and flies to London from Phoenix a week later or two weeks later and then back to Phoenix and then back to London again...

01:36:11

Waste of time and money. And me. It's crazy and there's nothing left of him and he's never here to do this show.

01:36:18

See, that's the thing. So the point is, the point is, the point is that I go, hey, this could work.

01:36:27

Let's make this happen. Atlanta, perfect. I can go from there to the next thing.

01:36:33

We can make it one big trip. It'll fit at that time period after I do Australia.

01:36:39

Let's do it. Well, my invitation was declined and basically all

01:36:46

I've been told is it doesn't fit our conference. We don't want this at our conference. Oh, um, okay.

01:36:54

And there's another church in Boone's Mill, Virginia that had contacted us, but the guys there in Talking with Rich had said this would be the first time they've done something like this, right?

01:37:09

Um, that's not as easy to get to as Atlanta. Okay? You've got to do some hopping around and to get back out, you got to do some hopping around.

01:37:20

And we're talking about basically over a year, 14 months from now, 14 months from now.

01:37:28

Now, if that's, if that's all we can do, you know, we'll try to work with the church to make sure that we've got the right recording equipment and stuff like that.

01:37:38

It will complicate things, and it won't go, I mean, we offered no cost, no cost to their conference at all.

01:37:50

We'd take care of all that on our own. Yes. For what it's worth, I actually offered that if it was a problem for Dr.

01:37:58

Riddle and for Pastor True Love, I told this to him last night in private, but I'll make it public.

01:38:04

I offered to, if the cost of an extra night for them to be there, we will cover the hotel room for them.

01:38:10

Sure, sure. It's not a problem. It just seemed like, it just seemed like a good way of getting this done.

01:38:18

And my focus, of course, is on Reformed Baptist, because what's happened is that as a result, these other people from different perspectives with, you know, there's all these folks that just desperately want their 15 minutes of fame, even though they've got completely idiosyncratic perspectives that are just way out in loop -loopville, they want to do their thing, or they want to argue something other than what we're actually arguing here, which is a theological concept of the meaning of preservation and the mechanism of preservation amongst

01:38:51

Reformed people who have a very high view of scripture. And I'm just sort of like, no, no thanks,

01:38:57

I understand. So as it stands right now, we don't think that anything's going to be happening in October, though I'd like to see that happen.

01:39:12

And if it's, if we just have to do it 14 months down the road, I mean,

01:39:18

I don't know what's going to be going on 14 months down the road. It's a long time in the future, but whatever, made the offer.

01:39:27

We've been very, very clear about what our purposes and intentions are, and there's been all this drama, you know, why did you do it this way or that way?

01:39:37

It's like, oh, please. I saw the announcement, I said, hey, this would be a great way to do it.

01:39:45

And then there's all these folks going, well, they offered to do a written thing. We already did the written thing, and we did it with Doug Wilson, and neither one of us were satisfied with it at all.

01:39:57

The fact of the matter is, live cross -examination is absolutely different than any type of other encounter.

01:40:07

It just is. And if you want to disagree with that, fine, I don't care. I think it's self -evident, but I don't care.

01:40:13

I'm just, I'm not interested in the drama. We've put it out there. If they want to do it, great.

01:40:19

If they want to wait for 14 months, we'll do our best to come up with what would be useful for the widest number of people as possible, fine.

01:40:26

I just don't want the drama. We have far more important things to be doing. Really, really do.

01:40:31

The whole reason I address this is because I think it takes really important people out of the battle.

01:40:40

But hey, if you, did you forget to bring up the rich cam while you were talking?

01:40:46

Oh, okay. Okay. I didn't see. I didn't see. I was just looking over and somebody mentioned something about it. So yeah.

01:40:52

Oh, okay. All right. Hello. How are you doing? Yeah. Okay. So someone was saying that Clementine is just beautiful.

01:40:58

Yeah, she is. All our girls are beautiful. Cadence and Jenny and Clementine, they're all special.

01:41:06

So I'm a proud grandpa and love all the kids and Waylon's a boy's boy.

01:41:13

Let me tell you something. You've seen that. You've seen that video. The difference, this is why women live longer, have longer life expectancy is a little girl comes down.

01:41:23

She gently gets off of the slide. And then right at the end, you see this boy coming head first and flipping off.

01:41:30

That's Waylon coming. That's Waylon coming down the slide. Big time, big, big, big time.

01:41:38

No, no two ways about it. So anyway, all right. So not sure what next week's going to look like.

01:41:46

We'll try to get two programs in, but like I said, I leave Thursday and so it sort of takes up the end of the end of the week and we'll just see what the schedule looks like.

01:41:55

But Lord willing, we'll at least get two programs in next week. Thanks for listening to this one. We'll see you next time.