F4F | Phil Pringle Caught Selling Miracles

Fighting for the Faith Exposes C3 Church and Phil Pringle

Welcome to another installment of Fighting for the Faith. My name is Chris Roseborough. I am your servant in Jesus Christ. This is the channel that compares what people are saying in the name of God to the Word of God.

Now have you seen the the recently aired two-part expose done by A Current Affair down in Australia about C3 Church and Phil Pringle? If not, if so, it doesn't matter. Go ahead and like the video, subscribe down below, don't forget to ring the bell.

We're gonna be spending a little bit of time talking about C3 Church and giving some of the bigger evidence that they weren't able to do because of the format of their expose. I mean, they didn't do a long-form discernment type of stuff that we do here at Fighting for the Faith, and so they had to hit a lot of topics and they had to hit them quickly.

And if you know, if you watch the exposes and you'll note that I was interviewed for this particular, you know, expose and, you know, they in fact they contacted me just before I left for Europe for the Pirate Christian Radio Conference in Swansea, and they sent a film crew out to our conference, and that's where the actual interview took place.

But let's just kind of hang it out there that C3 Church and Phil Pringle, these are very dangerous people. This is not a church, this is like a mafia-like organization that exploits people for money.

That's what they're all about. And Phil Pringle, he flat-out sells miracles, and one of the things I've noted is that they've given a media response to the current affairs stories, and there's something missing.

Miracle Offerings and the Claim That Miracles Cost Money

Yeah, let's, in fact, let's take a look at it, and what we'll do is we're going to, in this installment of Fighting for the Faith, we're going to take a listen to absolute proof that Phil Pringle sells miracles, sells them, yeah, and has done so in the past, continues to do so.

We'll go back in time a little bit for some salient, you know, evidence along those lines, and we'll even note what he said, you know, the Apostolic Declaration prophecy that he gave regarding Kang He, when Kang He was, the charges were just being brought against him before it went to trial, and all that kind of stuff.

So, a little bit of a long episode. Buckle up, we've got a lot of work to do, so let's see here. Yeah, here it is. The media response to a current affair by C3 Church, and I found this to be supremely lacking in a lot of different ways, but we'll note that on the second night of a current affairs expose, they released this minutes after that aired, and so it says, here's their response.

Over the past two nights, a story aired on a current affair, raising a number of issues relating to C3 Australia, including our governance policies, and an extremely unfortunate situation that occurred last year, relating to marital infidelity by one of our former pastors.

Now, I would note that, yeah, and the fellow apparently died. I mean, that's kind of weird. But I'm going to note that, okay, so the sexual misconduct, all right, it was handled poorly at best, but let's not drill in on that, shall we?

Because you're going to note that they talk about the misconduct of one of their pastors, who was featured in the expose, but then they talk about Pastor Kong He. Kong He should not be a pastor anymore, period.

He embezzled how many millions of dollars from his church in Singapore in order to fund his wife's singing career? And have you seen the videos that were produced during that time? Yeah, I don't even...

I don't even think I should talk about the words that come to mind when I, you know, when I see that. Sun Ho's music videos, they are less than Christian. They're kind of pagan and carnal, if you know what I mean.

But anyway, so in talking about Pastor Kong He, yeah, they note that he was convicted in 2015. He was imprisoned. This is most certainly true. A servitus sentence was recently released. He should never again be given any public forum to, you know, to preach or to teach or whatever, let alone, you know, City Harvest Church in Singapore.

All of that being said, they never mention the fact that Phil Pringle gave an apostolic declaration prophecy thingy saying that Kong He would... that his head would never be in jail or prison, and he was there for quite a while.

We'll go back in time and listen to that. Now regarding the National Redress Scheme, yeah, this is kind of a big deal because there are... there are a lot of people who have been really hurt by C3 Church in this... as it relates to the safety of children and other things.

I would point you to Carrie Ferguson as a salient example of that, and, you know, she spoke quite clearly about the fact that one of the C3 pastors covered up a felony related to child sexual abuse of her son, uh-huh, of her son by her husband, and the C3 pastor there knew all about it and did not do anything correct regarding handling that.

Anyway, so I think it's interesting that, you know, they... well, we have until June, in June, and then reumination agreements and things like this, but the one thing that they didn't talk about at all in their media response was the fact that Phil Pringle sells miracles, just flat-out sells them.

Yeah, he has these miracle offerings at the Presence Conference every year, and so he straight-out sells miracles. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about Kong He a little bit on this installment of Fighting for the Faith.

So what I did is I made a graphic just for this installment. Let's do this, shall we? So we'll put that up, and then let's go ahead and we'll do a little bit of listening to Presence Conference's past.

Presence Conference's past. As we listen to a C3 vision casting apostolic leader, Phil Pringle, and as he's selling miracles, and we're gonna do this long form so that nobody can accuse me of taking him out of context, but listen to some of this stuff.

And that's one of the reasons I.

Would do this, because things happen. It's not like, I mean, how negligent would you be as a shepherd of God's people if they had troubles and you had the answer, and you didn't have the spine to bring the answer because you're fearful of a.

Little criticism here or that kind of thing. All right, so the setup here is this is from the 2010 Presence Conference. He was saying, you know, what kind of a pastor would I be? What kind of a shepherd would I be if I knew the solution to people's problems and difficulties and stuff, and I didn't tell them?

Instead, I was afraid of some criticism. What would be the answer that they're apparently looking for? Well, let's listen again. God needs some people.

Who will stand up for the price that it costs to bring miracles into other.

People's lives. God needs people to stand up for the price that it will cost people. What? Listen to this again. God needs some people who will stand up.

For the price that it costs to bring miracles into other people's lives. What.

Is the cost of a miracle? And that's what we're doing here. That's what you're doing there, standing up for the price that it costs for miracles. Exactly, and.

This is the way that God has said many times in Scripture.

That this will take place. No, there's not a single biblical text that says that in order to receive a miracle from God, there's going to be a price involved, and you got to pony up money. No text says that.

And so we invite people.

To actually get involved in bringing an offering to the Lord that blows their mind about how they've ever given in times before. And when we do that, it just starts to blow open the heavens over our world, and things that have been.

Stuck can get released. So things that are stuck can get released after people give money to Phil Pringle and C3 Church during their miracle offering. I would note again that the gifts of God are not for sale.

This is over four presence conferences that she has had. These miracles happen.

Time and again. Now one of the things that that Phil Pringle does is that during the presence conference, he trots people on stage to give testimonies of, Yeah, I emptied my bank account, and after emptying my bank account, I had miracles happen in my life.

Yeah, that's what he does like every single year during the.

Presence conference. It makes me think that God is wanting to establish the fact in the earth that he still works miracles, that he's still in the Western.

World. It sounds to me like God's supposedly establishing the fact that miracles cost money, which is not taught in the Bible at all. Yeah, where do you see Jesus saying, Yeah, listen, I know you're a paralytic, and oh, I know you were born blind, but you know, hey, you know, until you can demonstrate your faith, you know, nothing I can do here.

Yeah, we'll have a miracle offering before I heal you. Yeah, Jesus never did that. Isn't that weird?

Brings his presence into people's lives, that it's not just in India or Africa or in South America that God is raising the dead and healing the sick and bring it about miracles, but it's right here in Sydney, Australia, right here on Australian soil in the Western world, we can see the power of God happening in people's lives.

And I believe this with all my heart, that God wants us to spread this conference and to spread our kind of churches throughout the entire world.

God wants them to spread their kind of churches, you know, the kind that fleeces people and charges people money for miracles. Right. Yeah, I don't think so.

And I know that you and I can make that happen here today as we bring a miracle offering to the Lord. The great things about these that I always find is that God is touching people who give to his purpose.

Cam and Emma,.

Where are you guys? All right, so here comes some testimony regarding, you know, hey, you know, God wants you to give lots of money so that you can get a miracle. And this doesn't really sound miraculous to me, but we'll get to that.

You come up here. I want you to come up here. And these guys have a story that I thought I'd like them to tell. And so welcome Cam and Emma Packer, would you?

Cameron, look at your little baby. Beautiful, huh? All right, young couple.

With a baby. Doesn't sound very miraculous to me. You're clever to get a wife like that.

I know. Exactly. Yes. It's a miracle. Tell us the story. It is a miracle. How much of the story would you like? Well, I guess it's like, yeah, December 204, April 206, April 207, April 208. Crazy. I'll just check out your notes there.

Yeah, right. I came to Sydney in mid -204 to do Bible college. And I thought, okay, this is going to be a six-month stint. And then I'll go back to New Zealand and carry on with my life. But God had other plans.

In that presence, my first presence, 204, I didn't know it at the time, but both Emma and I were sowing for each other.

Sowing for each other. Yeah, they were paying money to Phil Pringle, sowing for a spouse. Now, call me old fashioned, but get this. I mean, my wife and I, we've been married for 31 years, and I never sent a single dollar to C3 sowing for my wife.

Yeah, we met in high school. And also, here's the thing. Never once did I send in a seed offering so that my wife could conceive. In fact, all three of our children were conceived without any financial miracle offerings being given to C3.

Yeah, I know it's hard to believe it's even possible. I know most people don't conceive until they send money to C3, but yeah, you get the idea. And that was... What do you mean? You...

Sowing. So you gave... The game was right here. So you didn't know each other? We didn't. Well, she enrolled me in Bible college, but I didn't really know her then. Right. She wasn't really... You were after him.

She wasn't on the radar. You're targeted here. Well, like a saundy would say, two excremasomes and a pulse. What can she do? Where were we? That's right. So this was all totally new, and I felt, you know, God tugging me.

I was a student, and I had a limited amount. I had a terms worth of fees in my bank account, and that was it. And I just felt God say, I want you to give that all. And in fact, it was... It was actually...

It was so hard for me to give, Pastor Phil, that it was...

It was so hard, but you know, he heard God telling him to give the money that was in his bank account. And so, you know, by implication then, you know, there are people at C3's presence conference, you know, hint, wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

Know what I mean? Know what I mean? God's wanting you to empty out your bank account too, you know, because, I mean, we all know it's practically impossible to find a spouse or conceive children unless, of course, you know, you empty your bank account and give it to Phil Pringle.

After the night had closed, I went up to see if the Air Force machine was still open, and I gave. So...

So you didn't give, actually, then. It took a little while. I was wrestling with it. Oh, right. And so then that was...

But it was just like obedience. It's just like God's nudging you, like, you can run, but you can't hide. That was 2004. It was 2004. I met him that year, 2006. What did I put for 2006?

You were due to get married. Beautiful. Apparently, he would have never met her if he hadn't, you know, put money in the presence conference in 2004.

Emma gave an offering. Emma came during the day. She gave the miracle offering. While you were at work. While I was at work, just, you know, selling mobile phones as I was doing then. And I came along the night and actually a very good friend of mine said, you know, actually, you know, God speaking through him said, you know, in so and into your future, what are you doing about it?

And I felt, I felt God say, I thought I actually received that word. I felt it was like it was from God. Right. So we went out, we doubled what we'd already given and went up. And as we went forward, you pulled us aside and proceeded to prophesy over our life and over our future as pastors and the call of God on our lives.

God's provision, his abundance. Amazing. And it was at that point, I actually felt like I became a son of the house too.

Yeah, after he gave money, he finally became a son of the house. Before that, he was, you know, just living out in the servant's quarters or something.

I didn't put that in there, but I felt like I'm home now.

Wow. Yeah, that is amazing.

And then last year, we'll probably, we'll cut to 2007. 207? Gee, this is amazing, isn't it? Believing for a new job. Believing for a new job, it just goes on and on. Last year, I was believing, 207, I was believing for a new job.

Yeah. In fact, unless you give money to C3 and Phil Pringle during the miracle offering, chances are if you're unemployed, you'll never find a job either.

I've been applying for all kinds of work and I was a bit tired of retail. Wasn't exactly what I intended to get into, but God gave me a way out. And sure enough, I'd applied after eight months of applying for work.

I got a job working for a drug company, which instantly doubled my income. And God's caused favor.

It's a legitimate drug company, right?

Pharmacy. Yeah, so, I mean, he got a way better job. It never happens unless you, you know, give money in the miracle offering. Pharmaceutical drug company.

In the year 207 to 208 financial, I was the top rep sales to budget. God's totally blessed me in that company. Finally, last year, 208. I'll hand over to my beautiful wife for the story. Yeah.

Excellent. Well, we decided that we probably weren't going to start trying for a baby until about 2010 when I'd finished my uni degree.

And when she finished her uni degree, which means this is a young couple. Okay. I don't know if someone's had the birds and the bees, you know, conversation with them yet. But human conception does not involve writing a check or giving money to C3 church.

You know, it just doesn't. During presence that week, God really spoke to both of us. And we just really felt that it was time to start thinking about a family. So the miracle offering came and we gave into it, believing that the next year we'd have a baby in our arms.

And during that session, we just both just were so moved. There was lots of tears and we just really felt the peace of God. And then during the worship session in the next session, I just really felt this amazing presence of God.

And then I felt this vision and it was sort of like a tap on the shoulder. And as I sort of turned, I felt God handing me a baby. And I really felt in my spirit that he said, this time next year, you'll be holding a baby in your arms.

And little Olive Rose was born 13 days ago.

Right. It would have never happened. I mean, young couple, wife still in university. Yeah, young couples rarely ever conceive, you know. And it just it's a miracle that, you know, that any of them do.

But if you really want to guarantee it, you know, you young couples, what you really need to do is you need to give a lot of money during the miracle offering at the presence conference at C3, because then you can finally, you know, beat the odds.

And, you know, conceive and have children. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this miracle offering thing, you know, that, you know, all these miracles that happen, it's kind of like selling ice cubes to Eskimos, man, you know.

It's yeah, you know, young couples that conception never happens, you know, this is weird. Why are they clapping for this? Man, we're really young. We've only been married a couple of years. My wife's still in university.

She conceived and oh, it's a miracle because it happened right after the miracle offering. It's amazing.

That's fabulous. Yeah. Each year, it's like the miracle offering for us is just laying out dreams and desires on the altar. And we have plans and purpose, you know, for our life. But when you give them over to God, it just he can do so much more with them.

Why does it cost so much money to give your dreams to God?

We just trust him every year with the big dreams and desires in our heart. And every year he's just been faithful. And we've seen amazing miracles, things beyond our wildest dreams. That's awesome.

What you described really wasn't in the truest sense a miracle. You know, if guy meets girl, guy and girl fall in love, guy and girl get married. It happens all around the world today. And even in Christian churches without miracle offerings, and then guy and girl after getting married, they decide they want to have a baby.

And wouldn't you know it? You know, they do. Again, my wife and I met, got married, had three children, never sent a dime to Phil Pringle. In fact, I even went from retail to really good jobs, good paying jobs in the corporate world.

And again, I never once sent even a cent to Phil Pringle or any church for a miracle offering. You guys are great. We love you. Amen. God bless. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Fantastic. Give him a big hand, would you?

And I guess the reason I'm saying this is because it's, you know, this, this offering is about miracles that extend wider than just our finances.

But I believe that. Again, he's selling miracles. You've got to put a lot of money in the plate or even an IOU, you know, you got to make a commitment and, you know, and maybe even empty out your bank account.

But as we give in obedience to God, we're going to find ourselves triggered.

Where is it say that we have to pay God in order to receive a miracle and that, that by doing so, we're being obedient to him. No biblical text says this.

Triggering amazing supernatural things.

Now I'm going to back this up. Listen, this is a total quid pro quo. It's like Tetzel from the time right before the reformation, when the coin in the coffer clings, the soul from purgatory Springs, you know, when your dollars hit the C3, you know, bucket, then, you know, God's going to open up the, uh, the windows of heaven and make it rain on you.

This, the total quid pro quo. Listen again.

Wider than just our finances. But I believe that as we give in obedience to God, we're going to find ourselves triggering, triggering amazing supernatural things in our lives, simply in obedience.

So give money and it'll trigger supernatural things in your life. No biblical text says this.

And even beyond that, we are promoting and supporting and blessing the expansion of a conference that actually will meet the needs in people's worlds miraculously.

Yeah, this conference doesn't meet anyone's needs. It just fleeces people.

And there are the, the number of, of, of places and people who are bringing the miraculous and the power of God to bear on, on situation seems not to be increasing, seems to be decreasing, but I'm kind of on a war path.

I'm on a war path to bring the mighty power of God. The fact that God is alive and he hasn't just got information. He's got impartation that will change people's lives and turn your world around. And I can't think of a better time for that to happen.

And right now, especially in people's financial world.

Yes. So God wants to bless you financially, but you first need to empty out your bank account and put all the contents of your savings in the bucket at a C3 presence conference during the miracle offering.

Uh-huh. And I know that as we step out, we are going to find ourselves actually in, in the zone of miracles. I'm going to ask, uh, Fraser and Tammy Rowe just to come up here real quick as well. All right.

Here comes another, you know, miracle testimony. We put money in the bucket and blammo out came a miracle.

And, uh, Tammy's our worship leader, uh, today. And these guys have a great story to tell as well.

So, so they're on staff. Got it. So, uh, thanks Frase.

God bless you. Yeah. That's fast to fill. We are excited. I was kind of nervous about this cause it's the personal part of your testimony, not just an offering message. But for years, since we started church here, four and a half years ago, babe, we, uh, as we started, we kind of thought we wanted to buy in wholeheartedly and learning the, the heart of the house, as well as the heart of our spiritual father and mother who we want to honor in our decisions and the way we, our belief systems as well.

So it's not, it's not a sucky perspective. It's the reality of coming into a home. You get what I'm saying? So we started along those lines and we'd always, I guess, viewed that we would, and determined to be generous on every occasion.

And so rise and build would come up, miracle offerings and miracle offerings are selling miracles. And, uh, we would give into those like up to sort of 20 times the amount that we had thought we would at any point in time and anything we've done in the past and loved it.

We're really enjoying it.

So we gave up to 20 times. You should do the same too. You'll note that the purpose of these testimonies is to basically whip people up into a frenzy and go, I'm going to get a miracle. If I put thousands of dollars in the C3 miracle offering bucket.

No, you're not. You're just going to be out thousands of dollars.

So we did that for sort of two and a half years. Our accountant got mad at us for giving away 55 of our income one year.

55 of your income.

You should do it too. And it was a good chance to talk to him though. So that sort of stuff went on. Then two years later, after that level of giving, we had the worst two years of business that apparently didn't work.

Didn't work. We've ever had. And the reason I tell you that is not because I'm worried about that. Cause I know that a lot of you are in that place you've given and you've given and you've sacrificed, but you haven't seen yet, but I bring you a word of hope.

You don't give to God in order to get, what are you talking about?

That I'm right in the middle of now. And that, that is only your temporary position. That is not the description of you. And it is not your status or a statement of your father's care or provision for your world.

So we walked through that. And even though I hate that moment, I love that moment because it's the shaping of my character. When Tam and I go home and there's no microphone, no lights and no one to talk to. And we sit there behind a closed door with an audience of one, then we're measured.

Then the rows will be measured before the one who matters and the decision will have to be made. Do we believe what we say enough to continue? Or is it just sort of when it all works?

Yeah. You got to give even when it's not working. This isn't how God works. God, let me kind of put it this way. Jesus taught us to pray our father who art in heaven. Yeah. So God is a heavenly father.

He cares about our needs. His gifts are given as gifts by our heavenly father. And they're not purchased.

And so we persevered in that. We kept giving above and beyond double offerings. We gave into the miracle. We actually both gave into the miracle offering and didn't realize till later. Can you remember how much it was?

Yeah, you did two thousand and I did ten thousand and.

Twelve thousand dollars between the two of them. Twelve thousand. And the reason their testimony is being told like this is because the expectation is that if you're attending the C3 Presence Conference during the miracle offering, you need to pony up.

You know, you're not putting 10, 20, 30 bucks into the bucket. No, no, no, no. You're you're you're given 55 percent of your annual income. You're giving your entire life savings. You're giving twelve thousand dollars in order to get a miracle.

And that that was was that last year? I think it was last year. And so and there's other times that we've done that and follow that through.

And there's other times they've done. That's not the first time they've done that. Wow. Now, I'm going to pause right there. We're going to go back in time just a little bit. I think this is 2011. And in order to do this, I've got to hide Phil Pringle here for a second.

My apologies there. I'm hiding him now. And we're going to note that, you know, back in the day, things got really awkward there for Kong He when when the the accounting discrepancies in the tens of millions started to be noticed and reported to the Singaporean government, he was brought up on embezzlement charges.

And all of the tens of millions that went missing from the church's coffers were for the purpose of funding Sun Ho's music career, which never really took off, did it? So, you know, so what ended up happening is, is that, you know, when things started, yeah, when the Singaporean government looked like they were getting serious about bringing charges against him and he had the lawyer up and all this kind of stuff, you know, wouldn't you know it that, you know, Kong He went to a president's conference because Phil Pringle is one of the advisors, the pastoral advisors, accountability advisors for City Harvest Church.

And so Kong He in this video, he looks scared and he's worried and he should be, you know, because in four years after this, he's going to prison for a few years. And he's committed crimes like you wouldn't believe.

And so rather than repent, resign, he held the pulpit until removed from the pulpit by the Singaporean government. No joke. And let's listen in as he's calling for his apostolic leader to give an apostolic declaration prophecy thingy over him.

We'll see how that worked out. Tonight, is it possible?

Past days, 11 months. I don't know what the future holds. I believe in God for complete deliverance. I believe in God to come through not one night. I believe in the blessing of the house. Son, I would believe in apostolic proclamation and blessing.

Apostolic proclamation and blessing. He believes in it. And then apparently his apostle is Phil Pringle.

Tonight, as the advisory pastor of City Harvest Church.

Did you catch that? As an advisory pastor of City Harvest Church.

Father, in heaven, deliverance is theirs. You circled us with songs of deliverance. Yes, Jesus. You turned our mourning into dancing. No, the feelings of despair, the ashes replaced with the oil of joy.

What a victory this will be.

What a victory this will be. He's apostolically declaring victory for Kang Hee.

That didn't work out, did it? Though it's dragged on, it's only for a greater rope to hang the devil by. In Jesus name, Father, we pronounce victory.

All right, he's pronouncing victory, man. Apparently it didn't work.

We pronounce conquering. We pronounce deliverance. Deliverance, yay! Jesus name, not one night will his fair head spin behind bars. Lord God, your name is exalted.

We decree, declare, we prophesy the name of Jesus. Not one night will his fair head spend one night in jail or in prison. He spent two years there. A lot of good that did him. Yeah, apparently, you know, maybe Phil Pringle forgot to put enough money into the miracle offering that year to get Kang Hee out of the clink.

Exalted, you will glorify the name of Jesus to this great man and his wife and that awesome church that they have built by the power of God and in the name of Jesus. So here tonight, Father, all of us stand together as the body of Christ, as the kingdom of God.

Yeah, so yeah, like I said, that didn't really work out very well for Kang Hee. And yeah, it makes me think that Phil Pringle doesn't have any power to do any apostolic declarations and prophecies and thingies and stuff.

Yeah, his powers are weak. Anyway, but let's go back to what we were listening to from the President's Conference is that, you know, he's selling miracles, man, selling them, you know, and they're not cheap.

Expected to be tens of thousands of dollars, at least maybe like 55 percent of your income that year and things and stuff.

Now you're in the middle of actually landing a really big contract, right?

Yeah, well, yeah, we were strung out at the end of last year. Those two baddies I told you about felt like a parasite got into our world.

And so apparently there's no way to like land a lucrative contract, you know, unless, you know, you cough up 12 ,000 bucks repeatedly during miracle offerings and thingies. The parasite.

And but I had one client pretty much cost me 90 ,000 dollars, and then another client hold back 42 ,000. And, you know, I'm a businessman learning in the middle of it, and I get more diligent as time goes on.

But also that was not a right thing to happen. And it challenged why we would give and how does God, how do you reconcile those things? But again, I reiterate that was never.

Yeah, we gave tens of thousands of dollars, man. And in no miracles were so they lost money. And yeah, man, God, how could I lose money? And I could I lose money on this this business deal? I gave 12 ,000 dollars during the miracle offering.

Could it be that that nowhere in scripture we told that God's miracles are purchased?

Ever something to be attributed to him. And my character was developed. My determination and my position on giving and the faithfulness of God was enhanced a thousand times over. So even if I had no story right now, Pastor Phil, I'm glad I went through what I went through in order to produce in what that did.

Right.

So I'm so glad I lost all that money because it helped build character.

Right now, the middle of last year. Right. I got a phone call from an architect. I've been praying for years. I'm a builder. Build prestige residential. I prayed for things. I prayed for financial release, that we could be generous on every occasion to church and people and that we would have a good time.

You're wrapping me up. I'm so sorry. Prayed for architect relationships. And and space to do real men. And I get this phone call from one of Australia's best known, highly recognized architects, even at a global level, who couldn't get a job approved through council.

And he rang me in the middle of nowhere to say, do you think you could give it a crack? And I looked at it and it looked like a legitimate case. So I said, yes. And after he had labored on it for a year with his resources, I did it.

And four months later, we had an approval.

And it was long. Yeah, everybody knows there's no way to get government approval for an architectural schema, you know, for a building something without at least, you know, giving God tens of thousands of dollars during the Phil Pringle C3 Presidents Conference miracle offering.