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Today we're gonna be taking some questions that have to do with the end times. And I'm also gonna read some emails from some listeners making fun of me for changing the name of the program. But don't worry, it hadn't changed again.
It is and will remain When We Understand the Text.
You're listening to When We Understand the Text, committed to sound teaching of the word of God. For questions and comments, email whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com. And don't forget our website, www .tt .com.
Here's our host, Pastor Gabe.
Thank you, Becky, and greetings, everybody. It is Friday, which means we're gonna be reaching into the email bag, or the e-bag, as I like to call it, which is Gabe spelled backwards. Anyway, we'll be reading listener emails.
I've got three in front of me here, two of which are about the end times. That just kinda happened to be the topic I had emailed to me the most this past week. I've also got a fourth email here about something that I wrote in a blog, and I'm gonna sit on it and wait to see how much time we have at the end.
But these three emails that I have in front of me all make fun of me for changing the name of the podcast. This first one comes from Mrs. J, who I believe is writing from down under, because she says, hello, Pastor Hughes, or g'day, as we say around here.
I am so glad that you decided to keep your podcast and video ministry under the same name, WWUTT. Why? It's different, it's catchy, and it's a great conversation booster. I've started conversations with people about misunderstood verses and topics from God's Word before, and dropped the line, it's easier to understand if you've seen the WWUTT video.
And instead of shutting me down because of the topic, the listener will say, what's a WWUTT video? And then after a quick visit to YouTube, I've been telling them that WWUTT also has 30-ish minute podcasts if you want a sound daily Bible study too.
Most have been interested to look it up. Then you changed the name, and I was thinking, oh no, how do I make East from West catchy and link in people's heads to the video they just saw? But no, you fixed it again.
So thanks for great videos, sound teaching, daily Bible studies, and for catchy names that make people ask, what in Christ, Mrs. J? Well, I appreciate your email, Mrs. J. You know, like I believe I said this last week, the podcast was always going to be called East from West.
I was tapping into my radio roots, we were going to do two-minute vignettes Monday through Friday, and then there was going to be a 30-minute program on the weekends, and we were going to appeal to radio stations with that.
It was a whole separate ministry from when we understand the text. But the podcast came about because I had some guys working behind the scenes with me on some of the online stuff that we were doing with WWUTT, and it was suggested, why don't we take the WWUTT videos, which are just 90 seconds long, and we expand the topic out into a 30-minute podcast.
So we'll answer some questions that we get about those WWUTT videos, and just kind of talk about the topic a little bit more than you can address in just 90 seconds. And so we did a pilot episode in July of last year, and then by August, when I relaunched the podcast, it just became a 20 to 30-minute Bible teaching program Monday through Friday.
All of that stuff kind of felt like it happened by accident, and I was always left wondering, should I go back to what I was going to make the program in the first place and do East from West and try to make it a radio ministry?
And so I tried to do that. I, man, just after a few days, I just wasn't digging it at all. So now I know that the East from West thing was never gonna work out, and it was always meant to be when we understand the text.
At least now I know, and I won't be asking the question anymore, well, what if I had done East from West in the first place? I won't change the name again. But thank you for being good sports about it, because I get this next email from JB.
He says, dear WWUTT, formerly known as East from West, formerly known as WWUTT, and Pastor Gabe, formerly known as what guy, formerly known as whatever else it was before you needlessly changed it. Look at this guy, he's got jokes.
I have a question about the rapture, more specifically, pre, mid, or post-tribulation. My pastor and I are studying through a revaluation. Is that a book, I guess? I'm not sure. Anyway, and both of us are caught between pre and post.
We have discussed John MacArthur's position, which is pre-tribulation. There are some things we agree on and disagree on. I have watched your video, Like a Thief in the Night, and I think it is more of a post-tribulation video.
I'm not sure if this is your official position or not. I would like to hear your thoughts on this. God bless, JB. All right, well, let me play that video here. This is the what video that addresses that whole concept of Jesus returning like a thief in the night.
Is there gonna be this secret rapture in which we're all going to be raptured and nobody knows about it? We just suddenly vanish and disappear? So here's the video that I addressed on where I addressed that topic.
A 1970s apocalyptic film entitled A Thief in the Night depicts the rapture occurring silently and without warning. Suddenly, Christians are just gone. Likewise, the best-selling series Left Behind also explains that Christians will vanish in a mysterious and unannounced disappearance.
The silent rapture common to Christian apocalyptic fiction is just that, it's fiction. The Bible says nothing about a secret rapture. In 1 Thessalonians 5 .2, the apostle Paul writes, for you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
Now, he's drawing attention to words spoken by Christ. Jesus also said that he would come back like a thief, but this thief reference does not mean a secret rapture. It means that to those who do not know Christ, his return will be unwelcome and unexpected.
For those who know his word, it won't be surprising, for we are children of the day. Remember, we're talking about the day of the Lord. In Matthew 24, Jesus says two men will be in the field, one taken and one left.
Two women will be grinding at the mill, one taken and one left. But this is also not talking about a secret rapture because Jesus is saying this is what will happen at the coming of the Son of Man. All indications are that the day of his return and the day we're caught up to meet him are the same event and it'll be no secret.
Jesus says not to listen to anyone who says he's returned unannounced to a select group of people, for his return will be as visible as lightning. The Lord himself will descend from heaven in a loud and triumphant return.
The dead in Christ will rise first and then we who are left will meet them in the air. Therefore, encourage one another with these words when we understand the text. Okay, so even though the term post-tribulation rapture is not used in the video, that seems to be the argument being made.
So JB is asking for clarification and what my opinion is regarding the rapture. And to tell you the truth, I'm not really sure what my position is, except that I'm definitely not pre-trib and I'm definitely not mid-trib.
Now, what do those terms mean? Well, there is a seven-year period of tribulation when mankind reaches the height of its decadence. And this is based on a prophecy that comes out of Daniel 9. According to the pre-tribulation viewpoint, that seven-year period of tribulation begins with the rapture of the church.
Then there's seven years of tribulation and during that time, there are people who are even getting saved. At the end of that seven-year period, Christ comes back again with those who had been raptured and those who are past dead, rescues those who were saved during that seven-year period and ushers in his judgment.
Okay, that's the pre-tribulation viewpoint. The mid-tribulation viewpoint is that the seven-year period of tribulation begins with the revealing of the Antichrist. Then there's three and a half years of tribulation and then the rapture and then three and a half more years of tribulation and then Christ comes back just as he does in the pre-trib view.
And that viewpoint is based on like a midway point in tribulation that's talked about in Daniel chapter 12. Now, I don't believe in either view because you've got a second coming of Christ at the beginning of the tribulation and then a third coming of Christ at the end of the tribulation.
You also have a secret rapture occurring which the Bible says nothing about. The Bible is silent, is secret on the secret rapture. And I don't see either of those things being discussed. So, does that make me post-trib by default?
I really don't know. I was having a conversation about this with Andy Olson once over at Echo Zoe Radio. And he said of me that I take what's called a pre-wrath view. So basically whenever the rapture happens it's before God pours out his wrath, pre-wrath.
That's, I'm all right with that. I don't know. But anyway, the seven-year period of tribulation is a time of great trial but it isn't God's eschatological wrath. And I've never declared a name position on the rapture.
I've never said of myself, well, I'm post-tribulation. I've had other people say that of me, fine. But I see in scripture that the rapture of the church to meet the Lord in the air and is coming down from heaven are the same event.
That's what you get when you read the text in just a straightforward reading. To come up with the pre or mid view you have to pull from this verse and this verse and this verse. And it's a weird assemblage of scriptures rather than a direct reading.
But Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 4, 16 through 17, I've got it open in front of me here. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the sound of the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. So one way or another, somebody's got to do a U-turn.
Either Jesus comes down, raptures his church and takes them back up into heaven. And he does the U-turn or Jesus comes down, the church comes to meet him. And then as Jesus just kind of continues down to earth, we're all moving with him as one.
And that seems to be more the picture of what's going on. Because Paul is using kind of a royal imagery here when a king would come into a city and the people would come to the gate and meet the dignitary there at the city gate.
And then they would move with that official through the city as one. So the king or the royal official just continues his progression as he was coming into the city and continuing through the city. The people are the ones that go to meet him there at the gate and then turn around and move with him as one through the city.
That's the imagery that Paul is using there. And so I see that as being the picture of the rapture. It is not two separate events where the rapture happens in a seven year period and then Christ comes back again with those who are raptured and those who had been dead before.
It's an event that happens all at once. And then in second Thessalonians, Paul gives the things, he tells the Thessalonians what will happen first before the end. And it's the revealing of the antichrist and the great falling away.
So that seven year period of tribulation would be marked by the antichrist and a great rebellion of people. We will be here when all of that happens. It won't be the church having been taken out of that situation.
We will go through that. So anyway, that's my opinion. And I want you to understand though, we should never be divided over these opinions because Paul says in verse 18, which I did not read. I just read verses 16 and 17.
In verse 18, he says, therefore encourage one another with these words. So we can encourage one another even in our different viewpoints on the end times, we all agree that Christ is coming back and we are gonna be with the Lord and he's gonna usher in his judgment.
But those who are with Christ will live forever in his eternal kingdom. We agree on that point. Nothing should divide us there. But then we have different views on when the rapture will occur and what the millennium will be and some of those kinds of things.
I'm definitely not a dispensationalist, which is the idea that God has laid all these things out into certain dispensations of time and we just live in a particular dispensation now. I used to have a harder opinion on that, but I was softened a little bit by Dr. Al Muller who said that everybody's a little bit dispensationalist and everybody's a little bit covenant theology.
We all have to have a little dispensation in us to receive the Bible as it's laid out because we have the Old Testament and the New Testament that can be perceived as two different dispensations. And we all have a little bit of covenant theology because we see that God makes covenants with his people throughout the scriptures and we're under a covenant even now through Jesus Christ.
So you have to accept portions of both viewpoints just to receive the scripture as it is given to us. And so that's kind of the position I take on that. I know that it would be easier for you to just figure out what label I was, but I don't know.
You can come up with the label for me if you like. I'm just not the kind of person that stands up and says, well, I'm this-ist or that-ism. Not to say that there's anything wrong if you say that. I think it's great that you know exactly what your positions are and you can lay them out this way.
And on some of these issues, I just haven't made up my mind yet. And so I think that we can continue to encourage one another in the common hope that we have in Jesus Christ, our Lord, who is coming back again.
And I am so anxiously looking forward to that day. May I be found faithfully serving the Lord when he comes. All right, let's get to this next question. Another one on the end times. We talked about rapture.
Now we're going to talk about the millennium, which is the thousand year reign of Christ. You see it mentioned in Revelation chapter 20. This question comes from Emerson who says, dear Pastor Gabe, I love your daily teaching, even though you can't decide what name you want to call your ministry.
You are so biblically faithful and are a great expositor. Keep up the good work. Well, I thank you for that, Emerson. My question is what is a resource you could recommend to help me understand the various eschatology views?
Right now, I know the main views that are held, dispensational pre-mill, pre-mill, awe-mill, and post-mill. I also know that great teachers hold to different views, and this has me pretty confused.
Where can I learn about all of them? What would you recommend? I don't want to hold to a view simply because the notable pastors I know hold to one view or another. Any resources, videos, books, et cetera, that you can point me to would be great.
I want to hold an eschatology view because it's what I believe the Bible says, and for that reason alone. Thank you again, Emerson. Well, I appreciate that, Emerson. And just like I haven't had my mind made up on where I'm at on tribulation, I also haven't made up my mind on the millennium.
I have some problems with pre-millennialism and problems with post-millennialism. So again, the question becomes, am I amillennial by default? But anyway, there are four main viewpoints on the millennium.
There's historical pre-millennialism, and I've already mentioned Dr. Albert Moeller. He would identify as a historical pre-millennialist. There's dispensational pre-millennialism, and John MacArthur would be the most notable dispensationalist out there, I believe.
There's amillennialism, and some of the younger pastors in the Southern Baptist Convention that lean Reformed, they're more on the amillennial side of the argument, and David Platt would be one of those names.
Post-millennialism is the fourth viewpoint, and Douglas Wilson is a name attached to that particular view. Both pre-millennial views believe that Jesus is coming back before his 1 ,000-year reign, so the millennium hasn't happened yet, and both the amillennial and the post-millennial viewpoints believe that Jesus is coming back at the end of his 1 ,000-year reign, so we're in the millennium right now, and it's not literally 1 ,000 years.
The millennium, as it's described in Revelation 20, is basically just describing a very long period of time, and so what the more specific differences are between those four viewpoints, I won't go into all of that.
Now, I have not read a book that is balanced that goes through all four of those viewpoints. I've read a book on amillennialism from Sam Storms. It's called Kingdom Come. I've also read a book called The Apocalypse Code by Hank Hanegraaff, and of course, those two books by Sam Storms and Hank Hanegraaff, they're offering their views on the end times.
Hanegraaff has that kind of partial preterist view, but he also helps the reader to weed through a lot of the Zionist perspectives and understand what is true and false according to what the scripture says.
I would recommend that book, The Apocalypse Code. I think it's pretty good. I've also read a couple of books by Tim LaHaye and David Jeremiah, and I read them when I was really young and didn't really have my mind made up on the end times.
I just know that I disagreed with both of those viewpoints when I read those books, but anyway, again, I've not read a book that is a balance of those four perspectives, but there is a pamphlet that I would recommend.
It's a short publication written by Timothy Paul Jones, who's a teacher at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, and it's entitled Four Views of the End Times. You can find it on Amazon. It costs like a buck, and you can download it to your Kindle app on your phone or on your tablet or whatever you read on.
That's what I would recommend that you get. So Four Views of the End Times. It's kind of the Cliff Notes version, a very balanced perspective on those four views. There is a book that's been recommended to me, but I haven't read this book, so I can't give you a personal recommendation, but it does come highly recommended.
It's by Eckerd Schnabel, who is a teacher at Gordon Cornwell Theological Seminary, and it's entitled 40 Questions About the End Times, and Schnabel goes through a series of 40 question books, and so there's this one in particular that I've been told is a very balanced perspective on those four end times views.
Schnabel takes the historical premillennial perspective. He doesn't mention that in the book. I just happen to know that about his teaching, but he doesn't lean the things that are brought up in the book toward historical premillennialism.
He presents them in a very balanced sort of a way. So that's a book that's been recommended to me, and maybe you would find value in that. Emerson, again, that's called 40 Questions About the End Times by Eckerd Schnabel.
That's just a fun name to say. Thank you, everybody, for submitting the questions that you sent in today. If you would like to submit a question either about something that you've heard on this program or you watched in a What video or you read about in a blog, the email is whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.
I'll either respond to it here or reply to you online, and I thank you so much for listening in. As we wrap up here, I wanna read something that Jesus said in the Olivet Discourse in Matthew chapter 24.
As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, tell us, when will these things be and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age? And Jesus answered them, see that no one leads you astray.
For many will come in my name, saying, I am the Christ, and they will lead many astray, and you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.
For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are but the beginning of birth pains. Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.
But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And the gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations. And then the end will come. Our Lord God, as we read about these things in your scriptures, and we've heard it from your son, Jesus Christ, that a day is coming when all of this world will be judged.
All evil will be removed. The son of man will come back in his glory, and we will be caught up with him in the air. I pray that we are filled with hope about these things, and may we no longer be divided over our opinions about what Jesus says about the end times or what the apostles have said about the second coming of Christ, but we would be encouraged by this.
Our hope would be restored. We would encourage one another with these things instead of being divided over them. So this is a wonderful thing that has been shown to us in the scriptures that Jesus would let us in on this.
So may we be found faithfully serving at the time of Christ's return, whether we would be taken from this earth by death or that we would meet the Lord in the air in rapture. Let us continually be serving Christ with our whole heart, mind, and strength, and love our neighbors as ourselves, just as he commanded.
And it's in his name that we pray, amen.
Almighty God is our strength, he is our song. Hold us in joy as famine is near. This is the day made by the Lord. This is your victory.
This is When We Understand the Text with Pastor Gabe Hughes. There are lots of great Bible teaching programs on the web, and we thank you for selecting ours. But this is no replacement for regular fellowship with a church family.
Find a good, gospel-teaching, Christ-centered church to worship with this weekend, and join us again Monday for more Bible study. When We Understand the Text.