Confronting Mormonism On The Street

I don't have a full grasp of the Holy Ghost, but he's pretty much the technician.

Because he can touch everybody at the same time, and in the ways that they're familiar with.

So it's like the computer guys here, running the show. He's not running the show. I got the word cut out for them, that's for sure.

I believe that Jesus is Elohim's son. And you are,

I am, and they're daughters. I think it's that simple. Yeah, I think one of the things here, we're obviously out here tonight as Christians, and I think the first time

I was out here was 1997. A little different, and it was interesting too, because this is the first time

I've actually been out here this year. So there were things that still were subtle, even back then.

There was a poem on a pamphlet, it was either 1997 or 1998 I was out here. I was in high school.

Just put all that behind you. A little bit younger. Just put all that behind you, because it's a new show. It's all about Christ's miracles.

It's seriously enjoyable. It's got little kids that sing. It's got older people that sing solos.

So it's totally cool. You'll feel the

Holy Ghost. This is my fourth night here, and I've felt it all three nights

I've come. And you know, when you leave, you can ask

God if the things are true. Just ask Him sometime.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I know you guys usually will say that James 1 and 5 says you're supposed to pray about whether or not something is true.

I think that a lot of people, even in the church, don't understand that it's a conversation that we can have, because a lot of people get after us for Joseph Smith.

The mantra at the time was, you can't speak to God. You can't put an image on God, because for a long time, they were taught that God doesn't have an image, and that you can't talk to Him.

Well, Joseph Smith came around and said, I talk to Him. He talked to me. My personal experience is that He does talk to us.

And if we pray like He's six feet from us, or within six feet from us, things change.

They seriously do. Let me ask you this. If someone was to ask me, like I'm a deacon at a local church, and say

I'm at a pastoral counseling conference, I'm talking with a couple, and they're living together and they're sleeping together.

And I used to say, you guys can't do that. This is wrong. This is sin. And they say, well... You can't get the full blessings if you're not keeping the commandments.

Right. But they say, well, we prayed about it. We feel that it's okay. How would you differ from that?

God would really like everybody to be married that's sleeping together. Well, right. But the reason why, pretty much, you mentioned commandments, though.

Because in fact, if they're sincere, they are living, they're acting in violation of God's commandments.

So my point being is that... They might be living it to the best of their knowledge. Right. So I don't... I'm not going to judge them on that.

Right. Well, we should, however, judge righteously. So when Jesus says, judge with righteous judgment, my point being is that we have to...

Whatever your experience is, I mean, I've had similar experience on the mission field as well, too, where you're getting directions of where to go.

But ultimately, we have to take what is being said and test it by God's word to see if it's a conformity of Scripture.

Because the Bible does warn about other Gospels, other Jesuses, and 1 John 4, 1, it says, you need...

Yeah, it says you need to test the spirits, for not every single spirit that testifies is from...

It comes from God, but it is also the spirit of Antichrist. So just real quick, when it comes to...

I want to stick to the essentials about ultimately, like, Jesus Christ, who is he? So in spite of your experiences, your sincerity, we...

He's our Savior. Right. But the question is, which Jesus? How do you know you have the Jesus of Scripture? Because remember,

Jesus himself said... He's the same one that was driving with me in Japan. Right. Well, is he your brother?

Is he the spirit brother of Lucifer? Is he the firstborn in the pre -existence? Lucifer is the spirit brother of all of us as well. Right. And that's why he knows us like he does.

Right. Because he can remember what we were like before we were born. When we were born, we came through a veil like a curtain.

We can't remember what went on behind us. If we did, there'd be a lot of us that'd be a lot different.

Right. We'd be ashamed of some of the things we did. So in Colossians 1, when

Paul talks about the preeminent, the supremacy and the preeminence of Christ, the one thing he says, he says,

For Christ is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created, both invisible...

Can we talk about that? Yeah, both invisible or invisible, whether thrones, powers, or principalities, all things visible and invisible were created by him and for him, which emphatically is saying that...

Well, both of the seen and the unseen realms, which was Satan would fall under that category. So according to that, according to Scripture, Jesus Christ created all things, including

Satan. And in fact, in Zechariah 12, 1, when you talk about the preexistence, it says that God forms the spirit of man within him.

I believe that our Heavenly Father created all of the spirits. What would you do in Colossians 1?

I can show you the passage on my phone. I understand all that you're here for.

Right. But what I know is that Jesus Christ is our brother. He's our Savior.

And he enables us to live freely in our lives. We don't have to carry the sins with us.

Could you show me... Are you aware of any passages in Scripture where it says that Jesus Christ is our brother? Because when you actually look in Scripture, according, for example,

John 1, 1, when Christ is the protodikos, the logos... I don't spend a lot of time in the Bible. Well, you should spend more time.

That's why we're out here. And that's why we care for you, man. I should because I've been promised that I'd learn lots of things if I did. But from my own experience, he's been next to me probably 30...

well, 25 years of my life. Right. He's been available whenever I've asked him a question. Right.

And I could bear you my testimony of the same thing. I asked him. You know,

I've asked him. I said, how am I doing here? Yeah. Have you ever done that? Oh, all the time. Okay. He'll let you know.

And it's just like we're talking here. Yeah. He doesn't like arguments.

He said that to the apostles. He said that... He says that to everybody. Let's quit the contentions on this.

Because that... He says that's not going to work with us. Just so you know, just so you know, in fairness, there's nowhere in the gospel where Jesus says that.

And in... He says it to the apostles. In Jude 3, it says... It talks about... He says it to the apostles.

He says, why are you in contentions on this? Okay. He says, we don't need to do this.

And it's there. But... Right. As far as I know, I have talked with him like we're talking here.

Right. Okay. I've talked with Heavenly Father like we're talking here. Mm -hmm. Most of the time,

I have felt Jesus talk to me. But Heavenly Father talks to us just the same, if we listen.

Mm -hmm. And you'll feel the Spirit here. And that's how we can feel

Heavenly Father talking to us. So is how you feel the... Is how you feel then the standard of how you determine what is true and what is not?

Everybody needs to have testimony for themselves. So when Jesus... What would you say that Jesus said in regards to how you determine truth?

Because Jesus was... He's got it set up. So Jesus... He's got it set up in the Bible. Yeah. So just for example, Jesus was specific. So if you remember, there's a conversation.

It's one of my favorite conversations between him and Jesus and Pontius Pilate where Jesus says, Behold, I say, anyone who is of the truth heareth my voice.

Pilate basically walks away and says, what is truth? Yeah, he says that to us. Asking the question. Yeah, he says that to us.

Right. And so when Jesus talks about being the way, the truth, and life, he always talked about specifics in regards to having an absolute standard.

And so in the High Priestly Prayer in John 17, specifically, I believe, John 17, 17, where Jesus says,

Father, sanctify them by thy word. By word? To the Father. Okay, who's that? The Father is

God. Okay. That's what we understand. Mm -hmm. That Jesus was talking to his Father. Sometimes...

Right. He talks as if he's using the words of the Father, but he's commissioned from the

Father. Yeah, I mean, he humbled himself. So in Philippians 2, it said that Christ being in the very form of God, he humbled himself and so it was subtraction by addition.

But just talking about the standard of truth because you were talking just a moment ago, and there's so many different ways we can go, but specifically, how do we determine what is true?

And so I've been out here for 20 years and... There's a lot of people in the church, the LDS church, the

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints, that haven't inquired of the Lord. That haven't?

That haven't. Hmm. Because, like, in this last conference we had, one of our...

Oh, in Utah? ...general authorities talked about... I was up there. One of the general authorities talked about those who cannot abide this law will get a different one.

Yeah. those who cannot abide that law will get a different one. He said, there is a kingdom of glory for everyone.

Hmm. A kingdom of glory so it's better than what we have here. For everyone.

Hmm. For the kingdom that they will abide. Either celestial, terrestrial, or celestial, depending.

Depending on which one. There's probably one for everyone because everybody shows their testimony in a different way.

Right. I've really got to get back there because she's going to think I did something. Yeah. Well, here, take one of these. Well, I'll take one.

But just, just understand that everybody practices their testimony.

Their... Hmm. The way they feel differently. Oh, yeah. And, yeah. It's just how we are.

Oh, 100%. And the reason why... We have different fingerprints. We have different... Everything. Yeah. And the only thing is one of the reasons too why we're out here is when

I talk about the nature of truth is that people can be sincere and be sincerely wrong. And so, for example, it says...

Yeah, and it says there's a way in Proverbs it says there's a way which seems right unto a man but the ways that end therein are the way of death.

Jesus himself talked to... When he was talking about the scribes and the Sadducees he said they are so bold...

Aren't you glad you didn't have to deal with those guys? Them? Yeah. Oh, I'm sure they had their... I'm sure you had to work cut out for if you were engaging them.

Yeah, he had a problem with those guys. Yes. But just bear in mind just think about this real quickly. He would say these are people who they're so bold and they're so zealous they would literally cross the sea to make someone a convert and when they do they make them twice the child of hell.

So, according to the standard that Jesus gave like their testimony and then how they felt wasn't good enough and that's why we would just say...

But I really have a commitment over here. Yeah, if you want to check back later on I'd love to talk to you. Listen to the show.

Yeah. If you've never seen it before I promise you you'll have a great time with it. Sounds good, man.

I appreciate you talking. It's 100 % Christ and his miracles but you have testimonies of the blind man the man who couldn't walk and that's a fun story because if you go to City of David on YouTube they've found the pull of his head and it's not a little and I've always thought it was like that 10 feet 20 feet by 20 feet this is it's about as long as these three trailers and as wide as the movie that they ever uncovered.

Yeah, it's City of David on YouTube and they've been digging it out they're digging in a parking lot these are like steps so he dug a little further and it's way cool.

Awesome, man. Going back to our first question when I asked you who is Jesus I would encourage you to look in scripture and the

Bible and see who Jesus is because the Old Testament and the New Testament I'm at the point where I've talked to him enough

I've talked to him enough so I don't doubt what

I've heard from him. Yeah the reason why we care for you is that we don't think you're talking to the eternal God who created all things.

It wasn't something that I'd felt before Um it wasn't well

I've felt it all my life because I've I've had you know my mother read the Bible to me every morning for breakfast we went through it five or six times while we were eating my oatmeal or whatever she'd sit there and read the

Bible to us and she'd read all the way through some of it was really? what's that about?

Yeah we've had a good time but I really didn't have a close relationship with Jesus until I started driving and needed a car

I worked at Home Depot I'm you know cutting wood for people and does this look alright and yeah it's ok to me so I cut it and it's fine so it's a conversation you ask what do

I feel about Jesus he's the best friend I've ever had ok yeah and what do

I feel about God the Father he's a very busy man but he understands he knows what we want and he'll communicate with us but is

Jesus the eternal God in human that became man he see we all progress to that point ok we progress to the point of becoming

God we can we want to abide by that law yeah ok uh he is our way to the

Father yeah I am the way the truth and the life is what he says yeah he is through his atonement our way to get from the sinful state that Adam and Eve dealt with to get us back to Heavenly Father and I know that as I live uh -huh

I know it as strong as I live ok uh Heavenly Father I believe there's a

Heavenly Mother and everybody would give her all kinds of crap if she showed herself a little bit more than she did would you like that?

you wouldn't you wouldn't I'm actually one of the reasons why I'm loving talking to you is because you're actually defining actual

Mormon theology where typically out here versus when I'd be out here 20 years ago a lot of them a lot of in some sense it's true because a lot of people who are

LDS they don't even know if I would say to them what you just said to me a lot of them would be confused and would even deny it and be unsure so in that sense

I've already really appreciate and respect this conversation for sure my name's Ray Ray, yes Ray Hunt's my name but literally with God the

Father with Jesus we can talk to him we can say like how are you doing today?

that's a pretty interesting question because a lot of sometimes the Lord is just they've got things on their mind and things aren't working so Ray what's interesting though is that you're sharing with me a lot of your stories and experiences

I've had friends as well who are Jehovah's Witnesses I've talked to people who are in Scientology I've talked with people that from a broad variety of backgrounds and world religions but would have some sort of story about some emphatic experience about either not even

Jesus so like there's people who believe like I had a friend who back in 2012 she was at the

Mayan Temple and she was sincere in her heart about 30 seconds and she believes she's going to transcend the 5D consciousness and she was sincere about it so my point in being is that you can't have experience be the authority but let me just show you one thing if there's anything

I'm going to have you look at and then you can back to me if you want to talk about later because you're talking about becoming a

God one day I'm not going to back talk to you Isaiah 43 10 says hear my witnesses sayeth the

Lord and my servant whom I have chosen you may believe and understand that I am he before me there is no

God formed neither shall there be after me so the God of the Bible says there's no Gods before God and there's no

Gods after him and later on he says we have the Bible we have God the Father who speaks right and we have

Jehovah that speaks and with Jehovah there's no other one before him for this earth because he created him he and Adam and Elohim created this earth right except there's no there's nothing more in the

Bible that says of this earth it says he's from the heaven above and from the earth beneath but yeah it's from our from our point of view ok we know there's other worlds we believe there's other worlds other worlds with other

Gods well there's got to be leaders on them well wouldn't you you'd have wouldn't you wouldn't you wouldn't you wouldn't you wouldn't you wouldn't you wouldn't you is actually plural in Hebrew Elohim is a singular ok so that changes everything right there wait a minute that's plural that's in the

Jewish word plural Christ and Heavenly Father have the same mission on the earth for us for us to be happy and to be able to come back to them the

Holy Ghost is the testifier of everything that they talk about Then you're going to feel it I promise you, you're going to feel it.

Right, but remember, feeling is not the standard that the Lord Jesus gave. But... He gave the words as standard.

The mantra is that we can't talk to Heavenly Father, we can't talk to God. Oh no, Jesus is our great high priest.

If you read the book of Hebrews, he's our great mediator. Yeah, well, no... I love your shirt. When did you get to Okinawa?

About a year and a half ago. How did you get in with COVID? It was right before COVID. Oh, was it?

Just barely. I picked up my son and we got out a couple months before COVID. Okinawa is one of my favorite places.

They've got glass, I was telling them. They've got glass that looks like strawberry jello. They had sorbet cups or whatever that looked like they had jello in them.

I said, why do they have jello in the cups? They said, no, that's the glass. Just beautiful glass. Anyway...