Responding to LGBT Brandan Robertson's Comments

Non-rockabotas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it.

Are you going to bark all day, little doggie,.

Or are you going to bite?

We're being delusional. Yeah, I love to jest.

Delusional?

Yeah.

Delusional is OK in your world view. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your world view is perfectly OK.

It doesn't really hurt.

It's hung up on me.

Shoot! What? What? What?

Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives.

Right.

Don't go into the world and make homies.

Right.

Disciples.

I got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke, pastor.

When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

Forever, oh Lord, your word is firmly fixed in the heavens. Your faithfulness endures to all generations. You have established the earth and it stands fast.

Oh, how I love your law.

It is my meditation all the day. Your commandment makes me wiser than my enemies, for it is ever with me.

We could do this all day.

That's Psalm 119. I mean, it would probably take all day to actually read Psalm 119. It's a big one. Longest chapter in the Bible.

Yep.

And it's in the Psalm book. And Psalm 119, it's an amazing book about God's law. A song about God's law. It is phenomenal, amazing. This is Apology at Radio. It's the gospel heard around the world, everybody.

I'm Jeff, the common ninja. That's Luke, the bear right there.

What up?

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Ayala do that.

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Hey, big week.

Lots has happened for us as pastors.

It's been busy.

It's been a busy week.

It's been very busy.

Busy season. We have tons of stuff happening right now. I wanted to let everybody know you're watching live so I don't wanna forget to say it. If you're in Ohio right now.

Yes.

In Ohio, our team probably just got off the airplane. In Ohio, our team is there for a meeting tomorrow. Can you, where's the information on that? I'm sorry, I didn't have it pulled up. Luke will find it so we'll announce it.

But here's the deal. We have a bill that we didn't anticipate happening in Ohio right now. A very, very amazing, praiseworthy moment. A bill of equal protection for all humans from fertilization in the state of Ohio.

You know that we've been able to work with other Christians and organizations. We're helping them. Some are helping us with our bills. The church is working together in all these different states to get these bills of abolition in.

And we got one in Ohio. So we have a pastor's meeting happening tomorrow. This is Thursday. Tomorrow, Friday. What is tomorrow's date? Tomorrow's the 17th. So March the 17th, I believe.

St. Paddy's Day.

St. Paddy's Day. Is that why you wear green? You got a green little clothe?

Well, that's my Irish one. But I wore this one specifically, which actually we did get for Ireland.

For Brandon.

But for Brandon.

Yeah, there you go. That's a real harmony right there.

See that?

That's a man. That's a woman. She's got a dress on.

He doesn't.

And there's a, see, there you go, a cross. There you go, see a circle, harmony right there. Man shall leave his father and his mother, cleave to his wife, become one flesh.

That's the way it's supposed to be.

We did get these for Ireland, so it worked out well. The info, you want it now?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Let's do it now while we're on it. So we're gonna get right to our discussion on Brandon in just a moment here. I want to make sure everyone knows what's going on.

Yeah, so just go to inabortionnow .com slash Ohio and all the information's there. But it is tomorrow at 12 p .m., 8500 Memorial Drive in Plain City, Ohio. You can RSVP if you want to go there. And I believe the live stream will be up there tomorrow.

Yeah, inabortionnow .com slash. OH. Or O, I think you can do both.

O-H-I-O.

Oh, it's the full thing now, okay, Ohio. So inabortionnow .com forward slash Ohio. RSVP, because they're also doing lunch for everybody. I wasn't able to go. I had every plan to be there, so I apologize to everyone in Ohio.

I so wish I could be there, but we have a lot of pastoral responsibilities and other things going on right now. I wasn't able to make it. So the team is there. Conover's gonna be there. He'll do a stellar job.

And so if you're a pastor or a leader in the state of Ohio, you wanna help us with this bill, get to that meeting tomorrow at noon. Just rewind this after we're done here and get all the info from Pastor Luke.

All right, so it's been a busy week as well, because, let me get everyone into it real fast. You may have caught the discussion that we had with Brandon Robertson. Brandon Robertson's a fairly well-known LGBT TikTok reverend.

He is the guy that you've seen videos of, probably, that said that Jesus repented of his racism. He's the guy that called corn good and beautiful. And he's also the guy that encourages people to satisfy their lusts and to go along with it, with the LGBT stuff.

And so you've probably seen him also recently because there's a popular video, I think even Ray Comfort shared it, where Brandon's in the middle of teaching in a church and there's like, I don't know, thunder or something, and the lights go out.

Have you seen that? No. You haven't seen that?

Really? Uh-uh.

Oh, I have to show, maybe I can pull it up here.

Yeah, pull it up.

Yeah, I will pull it up. So basically, he's teaching, the lights go out. I'm surprised you didn't see that. Brandon Robertson, let's see here. Lights, there we go. It was already a thing.

I can only stand so much of that theology.

Yeah, no, I understand. I absolutely understand. All right, so.

I've watched the required minimum.

Yeah, the required minimum. All right, let's see here. So I'm not sure, where's this? There's no sound on this one. What's going on? Do I have no sound here now?

What's going on?

He's been going after our boy, Jon Root, recently too, because Jon shared something. I can't remember what it was, but it was going after this gay theology and there's a picture at this gay church and I guess he's in the picture, but it's his bag, there's no way of knowing it's him and he got real upset at Jon.

Really?

He's been going after him on Twitter.

Well, this is all I can find right now. It's just the short, but take a peek at this, guys.

Minorities, sexual and gender minorities, have something to teach the church about dying to self, about new life, about the sign of God's judgment, okay?

Well, I don't know, was it? So anyway, I'm just trying to introduce everybody. So that's, you know, that's Brandon Robertson and here's the story. So my daughter works for Apologia Studios. She does shorts and website stuff.

Patrick Zaks' daughter works for us as well. My other daughter also works for us and soon Evie will be working for us. I guess that's how it works. So Sailor put up a clip of one of the shows we did on Brandon Robertson onto some of our platforms and she put one on Instagram and so he responded.

Brandon Robertson actually made contact with us first. So he responded and said, and you're gonna hear him in a moment here, essentially said like, you know, hey, how about talking to me instead of past me?

And as soon as I saw it, Sailor said, hey, dad, he got back. He says he wants to talk. I said, great. So I immediately messaged him. I was like, let's do this. And so we let him know that it would just be him and Dr. White and myself.

And he was, he's to be commended, I will say it. He's to be commended for his courage and his willingness to have the conversation. Yeah, no, it's great. I'm very, I was very grateful that he had the courage to say he would actually come on to have the conversation with us.

And so he did. And we'll go through some of his comments here. So basically we had the discussion. We knew we had limited time. So we tried to show respect for him. We went about 10 minutes over because he was also engaging in the conversation, but we finally let him go.

And you know, that video has been seen probably at this point, probably about a million times across platforms and other people's content that they've made off of that. And here's our desire. And our desire is to provide a reason for the hope that's within us, of course, to defend the Christian faith, the historic Christian faith, the true Christian faith and gospel against someone like Brandon, who is heretical.

He is by definition an apostate. You guys remember that in the last show, somewhere, I think near the end, he said, I'm not interested in playing the orthodoxy game, to which could easily be said, right, that's why you're an apostate.

Yeah, exactly.

By definition. So he admits it. So a lot of people, I think today, and I want to just start this conversation this way. Some people are just very sensitive to challenging somebody, saying the hard things.

And I do believe that we were gracious towards Brandon. We were respectful. We try to show honor to him. We try to be loving to him. But we also said some hard things. And much of modern evangelicalism doesn't like that.

They don't like to say the hard things.

Thou shalt be nice.

Yeah, you should. It's the 11th commandment. Yeah, you shall be nice. And that is, I'm sorry, not how the Christian faith comes into the world. Jesus said very hard things to religious leaders who were leading people astray.

He called them whitewashed tombs. That means that you're full of dead, stinking, rotting bones.

But you look nice on the outside.

You look nice on the outside. You look at John the Baptist. He comes in, calls these religious leaders a brood of vipers, who warns you to flee from the wrath about to come. You have, of course, the Apostle Paul and Peter and Jude naming false teachers and their position in very clear terms, biblically.

You don't have to use a butter knife with a false teacher. You use a serrated edge because they deserve it. And that is to say, you can say the hard, truthful, cutting things to someone in that context.

Now, here's the deal. You don't wanna live your life constantly using a serrated edge against everybody. As my friend says, there's a speed limit for the sidewalk and one for the highway, and they're different for a reason, different contexts.

And so, yes, we were as pastors, ministers of the gospel, very direct with a man who is leading people astray, a man who is promoting lust, a man who promotes and says pornography is beautiful. This man is an apostate.

So we said those things to him. We didn't yell them at him. We weren't mean-spirited. We just told the truth. And so a lot of people didn't like that. And I wanna just say, I think it's the duty of the Christian church to speak the truth.

What I was not gonna do, Luke, and I'll let you say something to this. I prayed very hard and long before the conversation with Brandon. I prayed for his soul. I prayed for God to open his eyes. I still pray that God frees him and God brings him to repentance.

I don't want Brandon to be hurt, or I don't want Brandon to be under judgment. I also don't want the people that are listening to him and influenced by him to experience that either. And so, yes, I said the hard things to him.

I want him to repent of his sin. And I've seen Brandon interact with others. I've seen him interact with others online in different forums. And the one thing that I had to pray about, and I'm just being honest with everybody here, I had to pray about making sure that I was faithful in loving Brandon and faithful in loving Jesus.

And one of the things I wanted to avoid, and your flesh will always try to get you to do this, I wanted to avoid placating to Brandon or flattering Brandon. One of the things I've seen in conversations between Brandon and others is that kind of placating and flattering.

And I don't think it's loving to Brandon to flatter him. I don't think it's loving to him to placate to him. I think what's loving to Brandon is to tell him the truth, to refute his position, and it is easily refutable, and to call him to repentance.

And that means if he's a deceiver, you need to tell him. Brandon, you're a deceiver. You need to repent. If he's an apostate, say it. You've abandoned the Christian faith. You are an apostate. Say it to him.

And say it to him, of course, with as much love as possible, but say it to him. It's a lot of times in our culture, evangelicals believe you're only gonna win somebody if you're just super nice to them and sweet and loving and all honey and powdered sugar.

But the truth is, is what led you to Jesus was the truth about your condition, hopefully.

I will say this.

Look, if you got led to Jesus through this squishy, nice, sweet surfer Jesus message and never had a conviction over your sin, you don't know Jesus. You need to repent and turn to Christ. Because Christian experience is the law of God confronting us, the holiness of God confronting us, and we then turn to flee to Christ for salvation and rescue.

And we feel the weight of our sin and our guilt and shame, so we turn to Jesus. You're not gonna get someone else to come to Christ any other way, because that's what the gospel comes into the world. Here's who God is, here's where you're at.

You need to turn and believe in Jesus. Brandon needs to hear that too.

Yeah, I was just gonna say, I mean, even Jesus, he had prophet, priest, and king, right? So there was a time where he acted kingly. There was a time where he acted like a prophet, like with the Pharisees, for example, or when he cleaned out the temple.

And then there was a time when he was priestly, like the woman at the well. So there's a time and a place for everything. And yeah, he's actively very popular preaching a false gospel and one that damns people to hell.

So he needs to be

He actually indicted God's word and said that it's filled with immorality.

Yeah, I mean, he said some awful things.

Yeah, he said, yeah. So the point is, is that you have to deal with a false teacher like Brandon in a different way than you treat the average person on the street, right? The comment, you guys have seen our videos, when Pastor Luke and I are on the street at the Mormon temple, and the average Mormon family walks up to us, we're starting that conversation and engaging that conversation in a much different way than I'm gonna deal with a false teacher and apostate like Brandon Robertson, because of the nature of the case.

And you can see that demonstrated very clearly in the New Testament. The apostles and Jesus handle false teachers and religious deceivers in a very different way than they handle the common man. And so that's why we did what we did.

We wanna be faithful to Jesus and faithful to Brandon and just simply tell him the truth. So I'm gonna play through here because Brandon began responding online and making some videos and some content related to our conversation.

So we're gonna work through his comments, try to do this as quickly as possible and engage a bit with Brandon's response to our radio debate slash discussion. Here we go.

If you're watching this, you've probably seen my recent debate with James White and Jeff Durbin of Apologia Studios. After seeing them post content about my TikTok for over a few weeks, I decided to reach out on Instagram about a week ago to ask them and say, hey, instead of talking about me, instead of talking past me, why don't you talk to me?

And to my surprise, Jeff Durbin reached out and invited me to come on the show and to talk with him and James White and discuss the areas that we disagree. Now, in our email exchange before the show was recorded, everybody was very cordial.

It was made to sound like this was gonna be a very respectful conversation about our disagreements. And when I showed up to do the

So let's do that. I'll just go ahead and read through the conversation so you guys can see it, bring you guys all into this, how this went down. Let me go ahead and pull this up here. So I'll just read through them.

So when he reached out to us, we got back to him and we said, something like we'd love to, let's make a time. And so we made a time and so he just basically said, hey, Jeff, thanks for reaching out. We'd love to make this happen.

I've followed your work for over a decade. From when I was a teenage apologist working to convince Mormons in my school of the gospel and you had a number of videos attempting that. Unfortunately, next Tuesday doesn't work.

I have a full-time job and a PhD program. So he just sort of explains when he could do it. So we set the time and let's see here. So I said, thank you, Brandon. I think we can make things work that work.

5 p .m. Arizona time on Tuesday. I'll get the team on it. I do appreciate you reaching out to make yourself available to have a conversation. I'm sure from both our perspectives, it'll be a helpful conversation for others to hear and explore.

James White will be joining us on set for that day. It will just be the three of us looking forward to spending time speaking together. And so he gets back to me and says, hey, wires crossed. He's available at 5 p .m. his time.

And so we fixed that. So I think we started at 3 p .m. our time. And I just said, oops. And we set it for 3 p .m. And I said, yeah, sorry, 3 p .m. will work. And I gave him the Zoom link. Here's a Zoom link for tomorrow.

Thank you for making the commitment. We're looking forward to our time together. And after it was over, let's see here. He said, Jeff, hey, thanks for having me on today. I will admit the two-on-one format was less than ideal, but nonetheless, it was great to get a chance to dialogue with you too instead of talking past each other.

I look forward to sharing this conversation with our communities. Many blessings. I said to him, finally, I'm grateful you came on. And I mean it when I say it. I admire your commitment and courage to do so.

Hopefully we can talk again sometime. That was our conversations. Through email, through text. And I just wanna note that it was Brandon that reached out to us. And again, I'll say it a thousand times, he is to be commended for that.

I admire the man's courage to be willing to come on. We let him know in advance. This is Apology Radio. Sometimes we have Luke on. Sometimes I'm not here and Luke is running the show. Sometimes it's Joy with us.

Sometimes it's Conover. And sometimes we have Dr. White on us, especially when we have engagements with people that might be helpful for the church. I let him know in advance that Dr. White would be on.

He knows very well who Dr. James White is. He knows who we are. And so he said so, like since he was a teenager. He's very aware of us. He knew that James was gonna be on with me. I thought it'd be helpful to have that conversation because Brandon's very well aware of the fact that Pastor James has been doing videos engaging with Brandon Robertson's stuff for a number of years.

And so this was the moment where, hey, let's have a conversation. You know that James is saying things about you. You know that I have been saying things about you. So let's have this discussion. He was notified in advance.

I think he was treated very respectfully.

Yeah, I agree.

He was able to make his case. We were able to make our case. It's difficult at times to do things over Zoom because sometimes you can't hear each other. Zoom cuts out, all those things. But even times where like he was getting, you know, his mic stepped on, I would say, no, I'd stop and say, okay, please tell us how do we need to hear you?

How are we misrepresenting you? Just tell us your position. And so I think he was handled very respectfully. And that's how the conversation went down.

Bait on Tuesday, it started off that way. Before we hit recording and even in the first few minutes of recording, James White was completely quiet and Jeff Durbin was generally respectful asking me to share my perspective.

And then very quickly, unsurprisingly, the debate turned into a rhetorical match. James and Jeff are apologists, which is a very narrow section of Christian theological teaching that is meant to help folks defend the faith against other beliefs.

So this is important. The word apologist is not just reserved for the Christian community, right? So the Greek word apologia is the word that would even be used in a court of law at the time where you would provide a reasoned defense for your case.

It's just essentially argue your case. It's just a Greek word that means that, just a reasoned defense. It's used in a court of law, it's used for other philosophers and everything else. It's not something that's just narrow towards the Christian community and even narrower in the Christian community as these are apologists.

We're all called to be apologists. First Peter 3 .15, sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to give a apologia, a reasoned defense for the hope that's within you. And so Brandon is actually an apologist.

Yeah, he is.

He's an apologist for the LGBT people, community. He's an apologist for them. He's an apologist for the homosexual lifestyle. He is an apologist. Richard Dawkins is an apologist for atheism, okay? So I just wanna make sure that we correct the idea that this is some narrow domain of the Christian fundamentalist church.

They're just apologists. Brandon's an apologist too. He's providing a reasoned defense for his case, trying to.

Trying to.

Trying to, attempting to, allegedly. And so that's what we need to find out. Is it actually reasonable? Is it consistent? Is it coherent?

Part of being a good apologist is being a good debater. And Jeff and James are great debaters. They know how to use words and rhetoric. They know how to throw out questions to get people riled up, to get people off their game, to confuse people.

You see, that is an insult, right? Like, what are you doing here, Brandon?

You are.

Trying to minimize the damage.

Yep, trying to minimize the damage. And your position, I believe, was exposed for what it is, Brandon. And so I do see this as, of course, damage control. But in doing your damage control, what are you trying to do here?

You're trying to paint us in a very poor light. We are deceptive. We were arguing with you and trying to confuse people. I mean, that's what you said there. They do this. They know how to do this. They know how to use rhetoric to confuse people.

I can tell you from the bottom of my heart, and this man knows me. He's known me for 15 years. I'm not doing this to confuse people or to play games or to win trophies or anything like that at all. I'm doing this for the glory of Jesus.

We had you on because we want to defend the Christian faith against a wolf like you. And we're being very direct with you. We didn't speak in a crooked way to you. We didn't flatter you. We told you the truth, and yet we were gracious to you.

Nothing in our communication with you was an attempt to deceive anybody or confuse anybody. So that wasn't helpful. So let's just deal with what's said.

And I think anybody who watches the interview will see that over the hour that we discussed theology with one another, the two of them just kept going at me, throwing in different perspectives. And oftentimes when I tried to respond, I was spoken over or you can't actually hear my responses.

I'm not saying that I feel like everything was unfair, but I do feel like the debate did not give me the opportunity to clearly articulate some of the key differences between my progressive Christian perspective and their fundamentalist Christian perspective.

Yeah, I want to reject that outright. And I can defend this with the clips themselves. I think if anybody watches that discussion, and if you haven't seen it yet, do after the show, go back and take a look at it.

It's about an hour and a half total in length. I think the whole thing. Time with Brandon's about an hour and 10 minutes, I think. Forgive me if I'm off on that. I think it's close to that. And so I think if anybody watches that, you'll see that there's moments where Brandon's talking over us.

That's just the nature of a radio discussion. He's talking over us. We're talking over him. Then we would stop and make sure, okay, Brandon, please tell us your position. So Brandon had adequate and ample time to defend his position.

And the truth is, and I think this can be demonstrated easily, is Brandon's position is fallacious. It is unbiblical. It is full of errors and inconsistent. And so it falls apart under cross-examination.

It is easy. It is easy for anybody to stand in front of a camera alone and to give your position without cross-examination. Brandon, that's easy to do. Anyone can do it. People do it all the time. No argument coming back, no cross-examination.

It is much more difficult when people know what your position is and know where its inconsistencies are and they cross-examine you and they challenge you. You had an ample opportunity to give your case.

There were numerous times where we stopped and said, please tell us your position. Argue your case. And you had that opportunity. So I think, you know, the better thing to do in a video like this, I believe, is just to say, okay, look, when we were on the show, Jeff said this.

I'm gonna expand a little more on that point and just engage with it. Rather than trying to make it look like it was, you were being stepped on, you didn't get a chance to give your side, because Brandon, you did.

You had your chance to get your side. There were a number of other places we could have gone to have a discussion. We didn't go there because we wanted to try to keep it very narrow and focused. And that's what we tried to do.

We've tried to focus on your epistemology. That means, don't get thrown by that, guys, please. Epistemology, theory of knowledge. How do you know? Brandon makes knowledge claims all the time. He's making them in this video, knowledge claims.

Question, how do you know? Because you say so? You just assert it, you know, and that's supposed to be all there is to it? Prison systems are full of people, lots of people that make assertions about what they know to be true and what they know to be good.

They can claim it too, and they can assert it. But the question is, is it true? Is it justified true belief? That's knowledge. Justified true belief. How do you know that? Why is that binding upon me?

We challenged your epistemology, and we challenged you on a few texts, a very limited number of texts, we challenged you on, and we went to the text, and we showed you how it was inconsistent.

I mean, even right off the bat here, you notice he's trying to change the terminology, where he says, well, you know, my progressive Christianity. We're like, well, no, that's Christian apostasy. You know, and then what does he say, accuses, or he says, fundamentalist Christianity.