Return LDS Missionary Never Believed

Apologia Utah

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Gospel track? I think any part of you guys can be just our feelings.

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Yeah. Do you have any faith background or anything? Spirituality? I was baptized

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LDS. Oh, you were? Are you still practicing? No. How long ago did you stop?

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Like when you were 19 or something? 21? I went on 23. Oh, okay. So why'd you go?

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Did you believe when you were there? To tell you the truth, not really. Really? I think a lot of the...

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Canada. Because I'm from Canada. Oh, gotcha. Yeah, life just got kind of tiring.

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Okay. It was just the way out, I guess. I kind of regretted it. Yeah. I regretted it. How'd you end up here then?

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Some cool things about it. Yeah. I kind of regretted it. So when you were like at the

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MTC going through all the training... No, it was pretty crazy at the MTC. They have like a lot of like stuff happening.

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It's just a weird feeling. Weird feeling. Really? Really strict. Were you guys LDS? No, no.

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We're evangelical Christians. Yeah. Okay, so you guys are based here or Salt Lake?

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Our church is in South Jordan, near Salt Lake. Oh, cool man. Yeah. So what's going on now?

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Yeah. I don't really have one. Not really. Yeah. I'm just going to school at UVU.

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Okay. I still, I moved out. I came back from a mission during the pandemic and then got a little too crazy there.

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So I moved here. Okay. Yeah, Canada is pretty crazy. Yeah, it is. I lived on a reserve.

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So like a reservation and things got a little hectic there. So I was like, yeah, my dad has a house because my dad's

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LDS. So he has a house. Gotcha. So that's where I stay right now for free. Do you believe there is a

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God still or what are your thoughts on that? Yeah. Yeah? Yeah? Have you read through, like even—

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I haven't really read the Bible. Have you read the Bible? My scriptures. No? No. Okay. Yeah, it's been a while.

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Okay. Well, here's the thing. Let me just say something real quick and go ahead and respond in whatever way you want.

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But the Bible demonstrates obviously that in Genesis 1 that God created all things, that he literally spoke with power.

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He spoke everything into existence. Billions of galaxies, the universe, everything came into being at that moment in Genesis 1.

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Then he made man and women in his own image and likeness, it says. But in the garden they fell, right?

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They sinned against God. That's all history. That's all true. The Bible is the only inerrant and infallible word of faith and truth.

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And so we can have—we can depend on it and its reliance. It's sufficient in all ways.

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So with that, the Bible demonstrates in Genesis 6 that after that fall, all men's thoughts were continually evil from that moment forward.

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It says in Romans chapter 3 that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. It says that not one person is even good.

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Not one. Not one person is good because it's up to God's standard, right?

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So if we look at something like the Ten Commandments, you know, have you lied before?

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I'm sure you have, right? Yeah. Have you stolen something before? Yeah. Have you ever blasphemed, like taken

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God's name in vain? You ever looked at a woman or a man with lust in your heart? So on the

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Day of Judgment, if we were to stand before God, and He judged us according to those commandments, how would you fare?

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How would you do? Not very good. You would not do well. Not the worst. Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

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You're like, there's worse people than me, right? Yeah. But the Bible demonstrates in James chapter 2, it says—I'm sorry, 1.

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If we stumble in one point of the law, we've stumbled in it all. If we've failed in one area, we've offended and transgressed against the

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Holy God. I heard that in some way all of the commandments are equal, like the

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Ten Commandments. Like, thou shalt not steal. There's a unity between them. Yeah, that's good. So, like, obviously, like, you know, stealing is—I would think that it's not as bad as killing someone.

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Or, you know, like, as, you know— Sure, sure. But then again, like, they're saying,

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I was told that they're all kind of like, yeah, in unity. That's like, they all have weight. You know, it doesn't really matter.

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Of course, to God, you know, God demonstrates a hierarchy of sins.

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Some things are an abomination to him. But positionally, they all—all sin puts us at enmity with God, at strife with God, right?

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But positionally, all sins do that. So here's—here's the deal. On the Day of Judgment, if we were all to stand before God, and not one of us is good, and God's standard is perfection, and he's holy and just, he must by his very nature— if he is good, if he is actually good and impeccable and perfect, he must punish those who do sin.

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Otherwise, he's not good. Otherwise, he's not good. But the good news is, and you might have—you've heard some of this, is that his son is one and only son, the uncreated,

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Jesus Christ, God from all eternity, Jesus condescended. He came into his own creation.

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Because John 1 and Colossians 1 says Jesus created all things, that he's not the spirit brother of Lucifer, that he created the angels.

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He created Lucifer. So he created the angels. He created the angels. Dude, Colossians 1—

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Yeah, Colossians 1 says he created everything visible and invisible. Whether thrones, dominions, rulers, or authorities, everything.

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Visible and invisible, he created everything. And so they lie, and they say that he's the spirit brother of Lucifer.

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The Bible doesn't demonstrate that. The Bible actually demonstrates that Lucifer was an angel. So that's not even a creature.

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Yeah, yeah, right, right. Yep. I remember that, having that discussion.

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Learning about that at the NWC. I believe that they were two brothers, basically. Yeah, that's just not true.

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But yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, so they would also say— It's interesting you tell me that.

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Right, and they would also say—what is your name, by the way? Oh, my name is Isaac. Isaac, I'm Wade.

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Jared. Jared, that's Eric over there. Isaac. So, basically, there's so many of those issues.

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They say that, essentially, Jesus was created in the preexistence.

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He existed as an intelligence before that. Whatever that means. That's not in the Bible. It's a doctrine of covenants,

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I believe. Something like that. But essentially, the Bible shows that he's eternally been God. There's been no other gods.

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There's only been one God. There's no eternal progression. We can't become gods one day. So, do you guys believe that there's a

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Heavenly Father, though? Yeah, yeah. Yes. So, there's Jesus Christ, and there's Heavenly Father. Yeah, so this is the amazing thing.

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This is what's called the doctrine of the Trinity. So, the Bible shows that there is one God. Isaiah 43 .10

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says, Before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. He says,

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I am the first, I am the last. Besides me there is no God. He says there's only one God. The Bible shows there's only one

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God. The Mormons say, though, that on this creation that there's three gods.

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Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Bible says there's only one. However, the doctrine of the

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Trinity and what the Bible shows, especially in John chapter 1, the prologue of John, it says that in the beginning was the

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Word, the Logos. And John says that that's Jesus Christ.

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In the beginning was the Word, Jesus. And the Word, Jesus, was with God.

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And it says the Word, Jesus, was God. So, you are one person,

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Isaac, and you are one being. By nature, you are one being and one person.

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God, though, has shown himself to be, through his Word, that he is one being by nature, but three persons.

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His Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It's apprehendable in that we can see the

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Scriptures and understand it, but it's incomprehensible in that it's hard to wrap your mind around that, right?

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Yeah. So, but here's the thing. Back to the Gospel is that God sent his one and only

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Son, Jesus Christ, who is God in the flesh, who lived the perfect life.

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He lived out those Ten Commandments. He didn't steal. He didn't lie. He didn't blaspheme

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God's name. He was completely obedient to the law of God and in all capacities.

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And then he did that, it says, for us. Then it says that he became a curse for us.

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He took upon himself the curse of the law, which is death, and he took on the wrath of God.

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So that holy justice, that anger that was meant for us, that would afford us an eternity in hell, it says on that cross that God the

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Son had the wrath of the Father, God the Father, poured out on him.

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That was meant for all those who would be God's children, all the elect, all those who would be saved.

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All of his anger that would have afforded us an eternity in hell was poured out on his Son, and he took it upon himself.

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It says it was completely propitiated. Jesus then says this word, he says, to tell us, die.

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At the end he goes, it is finished. At the cross, there, for all time, forever, all the people who would be found in Christ, Jesus took on their hell, essentially.

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And then he was buried, and he rose again on the third day, showing that he is who he says he is.

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He didn't just stay dead. He's alive, and he rose again, and he conquered death in the grave.

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Death could not hold him. The grave could not keep him, and he's alive forevermore. And he ascended 40 days after that, and he's sitting right now, ruling and reigning at the right hand of the

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Father on high. And it says he's going to come back, and he's going to judge the living and the dead. So now he calls all men and everywhere to repent, that there is only one name in heaven and on earth that can save our souls, and that is the name of the

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Lord Jesus Christ. It's not the Mormon understanding of Jesus. It's not even

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Muslims believe he was a great rabbi. You know, Jews... Michael the archangel.

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Yeah. They believe, Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet. Prophet, prophet, that's right.

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Thank you for that. Yeah, Jews believe he was a great rabbi, a teacher. But the question is, and Jesus says this himself in the

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Gospel of John, he says, who do you say that I am? Who do you say that I am?

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And he says, if you do not say that I am he, and he says the name from the burning bush, from Exodus 3 .14,

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where Moses is at the burning bush, you remember that passage? And he says, who should I tell the people who you are?

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And he says, tell them I am who I am, that I am has sent you.

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Which in the Hebrew, I am is Yahweh. Yahweh, that's the name of God, Yahweh.

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And essentially, in Greek, that word Yahweh is ego ami,

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I am. And Jesus says, unless you believe that I am that, I am

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Yahweh, that I am God, you will die in your sins. So, that's the call of the

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Gospel, is to believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, that he took your penalty,

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Isaac, and he died upon that cross, he rose again, and it's all by his grace.

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Grace is unmerited favor. Grace is that you are, we were dead?

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We were dead in our transgressions and sin, Ephesians 2 says. It doesn't mean we're waiting for someone to throw us a lifesaver and we're in the water.

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It means we're dead at the bottom of the ocean. We're dead is dead, we're spiritually dead, and we need a resurrection.

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We need God to change our hearts and save us. And he says that if you believe on him, repent and believe,

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Jesus says, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. If you repent and believe, put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ, and you recognize him as Savior and Lord, he will forgive your sins, wash you white as snow, make you clean, and you will have an inheritance undefiled awaiting for you in heaven.

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You will be saved if you believe on this Jesus Christ. Not any other revelation, not the

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DNCs, not the Pearl of Great Price, not the Book of Mormon.

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The Word of God, the only Word of God. So that is the call of the gospel. Yeah, the

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Bible, the Bible, the Bible only, man. I would challenge you, Isaac, to pick up a

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Bible. It can be King James if you're used to that. It could be New International Version.

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It could be English Standard Version. Whatever you think is going to help you. I challenge you to read up.

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I challenge you to grab a Bible, read through the Gospel of John, read through the New Testament if you have time, and consider what

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I'm saying. This is of eternal significance. This isn't just this culture where people pretend to be perfect and they've got these nice buildings and stuff.

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This is real, and one day they're going to face God and they're going to have to give an account that they believed in a charlatan named

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Joseph Smith who did parlor tricks and strung them along. I feel bad for them. They're victims in some way, but they're deluding themselves as well.

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Think about what it says in Matthew with them. When that day of judgment comes, it's not just those who are going to be.

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There are going to be a lot of people who are happy to go to hell. They're like, well, I didn't like you anyway. I rejected God anyways.

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So we're good. But there's going to be those people who are sad and they're like, wait, wait, didn't we do miracles in your name? Didn't we do things in your name?

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We prophesied in your name. We cast out demons in your name. He's like, get away from me. I don't know you, you workers of iniquity.

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He didn't know them. There's going to be people who said they believed in Christ, like the Mormons, their whole life, and they're genuine.

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Some of them are genuine. Not all of them, but some of them are genuine. And Jesus is going to say,

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I never knew you, because he has revealed himself a certain way according to Scripture and the way that they've taught it, the way that the

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Mormon church has taught it is not biblical. So take this is actually let me give you something, man.

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It's going to help you out. There's no pressure, Isaac. This is my number. You can text me or email me if you ever have questions, man.

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If you ever want to come to our church, I'm a pastor there at a Christian church in South Jordan. I know you're down here, but text me anytime if you have questions or if you want to meet up and go, hey,

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I'm wrestling through some of this. Yeah. Okay? For sure. Okay, cool. And I live down here too.

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If you ever want to reach out to him, I can. Do you have any questions right now?

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No, not really. I'm trying to process it all.

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You came out of that, and that's good. It's good that you came out of it, but it's only good if you go into what's true.

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Coming out of a falsehood is good, but it's only good if you go into truth after that.

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You know what I mean, man? All right, I appreciate you, man. Thank you. Thanks for talking with us.