Final Road Trip DL for Now! Mainly a Review of a "Former Calvinist" and His Handling of Scripture

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00:32

Well greetings and welcome to the dividing line, my name is James White and I'm coming to you from Somewhere out in the middle of West, Texas sort of Yeah, I will leave Texas tomorrow so I'll have covered the 885 miles when you cross I noticed this time When you cross the border from Louisiana on the 10 into Texas.

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The next exit is exit 885 and then it counts down to exit one because I happen There's a RV park that I've stayed at a number of times On exit one.

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It's the last exit in Texas before you enter, New Mexico on the 10 So eight hundred and eighty five miles.

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That's not a that's not a state.

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That's a nation that Really is and it's gonna take me three days to get across it There you go, and normally it would take four if I was driving carefully and comfortably but we're trying to get home as soon as we possibly can and And there you go.

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Oops There you go, I prefer that there you go anyway Little buttons little little teeny.

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Yeah, I need glasses.

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Anyways, so we are heading home and So this should be the last of The road trip dividing lines this time around the next road trip will start The day after Thanksgiving and it won't be as long but it'll be back to st.

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Charles and then going through Kansas City We've actually have two churches in Kansas sitting and see if they can work together or do a midweek and then toward the end of The week type thing on the way back from st.

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Charles in late November early December and then The next one is the big huge February debate marathon conference marathon teaching marathon Probably not wise to do this, but we're doing it anyways thing and So, there you go, that's what's coming up as far as traveling is concerned and that includes The two debates with Trent Horne the debate with Dale Tuggy the debate with Layton flowers and the debate at the Conference in Tullahoma where Tom Bucks can be speaking Sam Waldron is going to be there Could be a much larger conference than it was last time Because we've got a larger place to hold it in this time in Tullahoma So look up post-Xenoverse Lux and Jeffrey Rice and get the details on the February Conference that is coming up Um, I Was up in the middle of night last night and I Caught up on I don't know if my phone just wasn't updating properly or whatever But I caught up on the blog and a blog article that Doug Wilson did last week Where he responded to Owen Strand and talked about kinism and also talked about the interesting terminology memorials That the CREC is considering or I guess probably considered last weekend That I got the feeling from the way that Doug expressed it.

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I haven't contacted Doug to ask him about it But that someone had snuck this stuff out the memorials basically Position statements.

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I'm not sure whether you use that terminology.

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I'm sure it has some history to it, but in any case It now part of it as was I was listening to this at 3 o'clock in the morning But I Guess of you know I saw a lot of commentary about it when I was a g3 but couldn't follow most of it because I was very busy While I was at g3 There were just a couple things that struck me and And The one thing just trying to step back and Look at all this stuff There are people that are criticized in the CREC for what it's saying and why it's doing something But could we all just sort of step back just for a moment and realize? Compare the clarity of the statements in the CREC that they are debating and discussing And putting out there Compare that with the ERLC Compare that with the Southern Baptist Convention Compare that with almost any denomination as far as their willingness to actually take on incredibly No win topics in our society, I guess that's the way to put it I Mean There really it really is a no-win situation To try to address things from a biblical perspective as far as The left is concerned and and Doug's right is that we're not trying to curry favor the left because you can never do it He told the story of the the guy that had the BLM sign up at his house And the guy wanted to go up and complain because it wasn't big enough You put the BLM sign it's gonna have to get bigger and bigger and bigger until it, you know takes over the house that's just that's just how the left is it eats its own as anybody can tell and But the thought just crossed my mind At least someone is has the guts to actually talk about this stuff Now it was interesting.

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Also, you know, Doug was basically saying to Baptists And he sort of meant he sort of included Reformed Baptists Y'all need to develop some type of political theory Well, you know in a sense He was saying we have our Presbyterian political theory.

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I Don't think the PC USA is aware of that So what he means is we have a conservative Presbyterian political theory But it is not universally held by any stretch of the imagination and in fact even amongst Presbyterians is a minority perspective and Then you've got a number of people amongst the Presbyterians that you know, they're anti-vantil anti-presuppositional They're Thomistic stuff like that.

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So you've got all sorts of divisions amongst Presbyterians as well, but he was rightly saying You all need to think through exactly where you're gonna be going with this and I think underlying that was because we're sort of picking up numbers from you guys right now and maybe Of course, I would I would go if you change your views on baptism and church government because of current Political developments that's sort of backwards That's that's not a Not a good direction to go no matter what happens in the next election Or know what no matter what happens in Western culture Hebrews 8 still says what he was a says And we'll always say what Hebrews 8 says If you change with the winds with that That's that's probably not a good thing.

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But you know All all credit to the CREC for Being brave enough to address these things and and to do so openly and there was another thing, you know, I Was gonna queue it up didn't have time.

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I was queuing up all this stuff as you're gonna see here in a second But Doug threw out a pretty strong challenge and It it basically what he said was If if you're gonna stand there and talk about the sufficiency of Scripture inspiration of Scripture stuff like that then and he is This is sort of a theme that he has spoken on many times.

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There can't be any difficult passages of Scripture for you there can be things that are hard to understand but there should be no tough passages if it says that you believe it and He used as the example Philemon and Onesimus, I guess he's doing a commentary on Philemon and He's basically saying are you gonna? Are you gonna do what most people in the West have done and just ignore those books and hope no one notices them? or are you going to say that it was possible to be a Godly obedient slave owner because you have them in the New Testament they're addressed in Colossians and they're addressed and Philemon and elsewhere and there are a lot of people just don't even want don't even want admit that the question exists and It really That's one of the steps that you take To eventually saying well, you know scripture was for back then and it's not really for today So combine that with what Happened this week at Andy Stanley's church and The in essence side be Christian Gay Christian movement stuff that was being presented at Andy Stanley's church and You start seeing once again how all this goes back to what your view of scripture is Where you stand on its sufficiency and whether you where you stand on whether God is big enough to inspire Scripture so that it remains sufficient even in the modern period There's a lot of people that will talk about scripture and talk about its history and how wonderful it's been But when you when you boil it all down, they don't really believe That an ancient collection of multiple books by multiple authors can really be The ultimate source of divine revelation for the church They don't they don't believe it and when you don't believe that you're gonna have to go other directions And there's only a certain number of directions to go There's liberalism or leftism There's traditionalism and You know just an abandonment of biblical authority at all, which is really what liberalism ends up doing one way or the other These are all major issues, they're all big things and I think it was Al Moller who wrote a article last week Well 11 days ago now the train is leaving the station Andy Stanley's departure from biblical Christianity It goes over this conference there.

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Have we told you about the conference like a month and a half ago There were some folks there that have sent me some information that actually attended it but we knew from who was speaking David Gushy and stuff like that that this is this is gonna be a Sort of side B Gay Christianity perspective similar to the debate that we had Just a few weeks ago in in Mannheim and So It will be interesting to see the final sermon From Stanley.

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I haven't seen it yet but it will be interesting to see exactly where he goes, but the conference says and And They have major influence amongst a number of other churches So you're gonna see that and again, I say this to everybody who listened to the debate a lot of people have Commented on how the debate was different than what they expected and and I Everybody who would listen to me knows.

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That's what I was telling people that the simplistic answers that we have For the gay Christian argumentation are just that they're simplistic.

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They're not going to survive much of a nuanced argument and so I knew that There could be a lot of people that were listening to it and wondering Why are you all discussing the things you're discussing because that form of argumentation just isn't all that well known to people and We're gonna have to get to know it better and better As as time goes by so just a couple thoughts off the top I was gonna do a driving line today and Do the dividing line this evening? I was gonna record something while driving.

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I got about 10 minutes in and I went through one of those I Don't know what they are, but you go through them too.

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I can tell you right We're on i-17 in Phoenix you you go you go under the bridge at Thomas on i-17 southbound or northbound for that matter there's some kind of a signal Stuff going through there and your Bluetooth will cut out.

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It just does not matter it will cut out every single time you go through this particular part of the freeway and So I was recording on my phone, but it was through Apple CarPlay and it just disconnected and stopped recording.

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Well, you know Might say well, can't you just pick up on the other side? No I can't edit stuff while I'm driving obviously and the whole point of recording something while I'm driving is you've got one file I can I can kick that up to rich and Go from there So that one was ruined and then I then I plugged in So I was hardwired so that wouldn't happen again, and I'm nine or ten minutes in and rich calls And of course it you know, it shuts off as soon as the phone starts ringing and So I just took that as a providential Indication that I was supposed to do a driving line today.

15:39

And so I just just gave up on it but I was What I had started talking about was some stuff I had run across there was a tweet that I had been I Think someone Threw it into a thread that that really wasn't the topic and that happens a lot, you know, and normally I ignore them you know, it's not really the coolest thing to do is throw those things in there, but I Happen to see this one and what caught my attention Was that it said former Calvinist.

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We know a few former Calvinist and I've said more than once I'm Really really really done with the Calvinist Club I don't I don't care if I'm considered to be a part of that club any longer or not.

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I haven't felt I haven't cared about that for about seven years now and I Love reformed theology.

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I don't necessarily love What can happen under the name of the reformed community? There are jerks everywhere and there are jerks who are Arminians and Pelagians and don't know what they are And there are jerks who are Calvinist in it.

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It just seems though like Calvinist jerks are better at it than most others and So so When someone says they're a former Calvinist, I want to know what they're referring to.

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I was thinking today I think I became a Calvinist In other words understood the terminology and what that meant and as I've said many times before my dad's Systematic theology textbook was written by a Presbyterian.

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So there was always an element of reformed stuff In my in my upbringing.

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So that was unusual for in the IFB.

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So there was a little bit of mixture there and And But I I think it's been about 37 38 years Maybe 39 But pretty close to four decades now I've been in the reformed realm of written numerous books on the subject.

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We do radio free Geneva and so During that time we've encountered many a former Calvinist and we've very often had to comment on Wow for someone who's a former Calvinist They sure do talk funny Nobody in my church would ever say things that they say they believed So, I wonder what's going on here and you know, I've talked to former Protestants that become Roman Catholics or former Christians and become atheists and and There are certain Patterns And you know when you when you reject a perspective it's somewhat expected that you're going to sort of Represent it in the least most favorable light When you do represent it, but still especially with quote-unquote former Calvinists.

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I go What did you why do you think you were a Calvinist what what made you a Calvinist specifically and It does raise the question, you know after the young restless and reformed movement and stuff like that Do we have a lot of People who think they're Calvinists who are actually completely ignorant of the foundations of Reformed theology the main reasons to believe There is a it is a concerning thing That in some ways reformed theology became the cool thing you know the beards and the the Stogies and Scotch or whiskey or whatever and and it's the cool thing Well, it can never be cool because it's fundamentally opposed to Human ego and human pride and once it becomes cool it will inevitably become a Shadow of the reality and so you I really do wonder how many people actually identify themselves to reform but Couldn't possibly accurately represent What it actually means to be reformed it does cause me to wonder And so I went ahead and downloaded this this fellow and I had it took me a while to do some digging because It doesn't seemingly use his name but much Jason Breda b-r-e-d-a Recorded Five videos recorded five videos and I Downloaded the first two and They're fairly lengthy they're well done There's sort of a split split screen thing where he's over on this side and then you've got an area for text which is Highly effective it also makes it easier to find stuff.

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You know, I was looking for a specific Section in the second video.

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I haven't listened all of me.

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I couldn't they were fairly lengthy and I started listening to him and then I was gonna do the driving line and all this stuff happened, but It was it made it a lot easier like when you're using the the you know the scan feature you can be watching that text thing and To see what you're you know, what's being discussed and things like that So it that is a nice thing to have I suppose But start off talking about total depravity then to election and he says he gets into decretal theology later on which of course from my perspective is and and in fact Immediately upon listening to stuff.

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I just realized this is just a utterly disjointed Jumble of stuff It jumps from one thing to the next thing to the next thing it it would be next to impossible To respond to it in any meaningful fashion because it's just it is not logically or coherently laid out at all And if it's certainly not meant to communicate with someone like myself or anyone that I've taught because What's the what's the foundation of reformed theology It's it's God's Sovereign decree You got to start there.

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You've got to start with his timelessness You got to start with what I preached on At g3 What a week ago today no, yeah today's Friday.

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Yeah, we could go today.

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Is that all right a week ago Wow Okay Right.

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I preached from Isaiah chapter 41 on God's sovereignty over time You've got to be dealing with the issues of open theism You've got to be dealing with the issues of God's knowledge.

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You got to be and you've got to do so biblically So you need to be making biblical arguments on the nature of God before you go anyplace else and It's interesting.

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I think he makes he's making reference to me.

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I saw a section when I was skating through stuff where he talked about God centered versus man centered and that's exactly the case That's exactly what this is about and he starts in the wrong place.

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You start in the wrong place you're not gonna end up in the right place and You know his big thing I think he's been influenced by Ken Wilson So he's got a bunch of stuff on Augusta and that was you know A lot of genetic fallacy stuff and just erroneous.

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I mean all of Ken Wilson stuff is we've demonstrated that but it it really is Fascinating to listen to someone who claimed to have been a Calvinist for ten years He's left this the church.

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He was at he talks about how much he loves the people there and something But he's left that church over this issue and I'm listening and we get to a certain point and And How am I gonna do this here This was the point we got to that there's a whole section here And I I just don't know if I have time to go through all of it Let me back it up just a little bit here Yeah, here we go, all right, let's just pick it up here and and I'll let you see what we mean Make sure that we Get this here.

25:42

Yeah, that should work All right.

25:44

Let's see if this is going to this is gonna work for us at all And I need to turn the volume down or it's gonna feed back on me and stuff.

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That's not a good thing That's the only thing I wish we could work on here.

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But alright, let's let's see how this this works since Adam Have all sinned everyone that's a Christian and Faithful to the Word of God Holy Scriptures.

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The Holy Bible would affirm everything that I just said Here's where total depravity adds something into this is it also referenced as total inability Which is not only emphasizes all points in the biblical definition of depravity and what it conveys Which I just mentioned but would also add that being spiritually dead also makes it Impossible to believe which means it makes it impossible for anyone to have faith.

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So no, okay Just real quickly One of the things that caught me listening to this Was he never made the distinction in what I listened to between faith and saving faith You can have false faith.

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You know faith and falsehoods.

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You can have temporary faith All sorts of things like that the sower and the and the seeds and the soils you can have all this stuff, but what you cannot have is that which is pleasing to God and that is true repentance and saving faith and proper Focused upon the proper Object, etc.

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Etc.

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There's lots lots of folks that have other kinds of faith But it doesn't seem to make that distinction or even really understand why that's important to have faith in Christ God must grant regeneration first and then he grants the sinner faith to believe and So in other words man is dead and sin and incapable of doing what is pleasing to God Romans chapter 8 Okay, they are born again So both views espouse the fact that sinners do not contribute to their salvation but total inability adds the element of not even being able to believe and That if you do believe by your own will you are performing a work? That's what the Calvinist would say.

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They would say that if you believe out of your own free will that is a work okay, you know this this is very common and If we're talking about what separates who is saved from who isn't saved It looks like we got our little teeny tiny box back again.

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Oh, well, let me do about that today.

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Um, in fact I could You know, we need it.

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Oh me If if we're talking about this is what's gonna distinguish you from Someone who isn't saved Is this free will act okay, but it's not like this is fulfilling law or fulfilling Requirements and and and stuff like that.

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I do know there's some Calvinists that make that argument, but that's not that's not the point the the point should be based upon God's freedom and What that means what does it mean for God? What does it mean for God's grace to be free? That's that's the issue Not just the idea of well This is some type of work salvation concept and the scriptures talk very heavily about can't work towards salvation Total inability would emphasize that there is a bondage of the will This is what took place at the fall that your will is never to believe the gospel never to believe in Christ Even if the gospel is preached to you unless God intervenes unless God provides regeneration and in deposits faith So in other words What he's talking about he even has it on the screen Martin Luther this is the first debate of the Reformation It's Luther versus Erasmus and he's now on the Roman Catholic side That's That's the point.

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He's on Rome's side.

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He's not on the Reformation side any longer He's with Erasmus on this as are most Protestants.

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I I Admit it.

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That's that's the reality But let's make sure that remember Martin Luther said about this very issue the autonomy of the will of man You Erasmus have put your finger upon the hinge of the key issue that the hinge upon which it all turns The bondage or freedom of the will and by taking the position he's taking he's rejecting The Reformation and let's just let's just be honest about where it's going to you.

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You will not desire You will not believe that's what the Calvinist argues So since this is the case that God has to grant regeneration first Knowing that not all people will be saved God does not save everyone by his choice because we know Jesus said that the road to heaven is narrow and The road to destruction is wide the gate to destruction is wide and many go that way We know that that many will not trust in Christ That's the majority most of the people are not going to be saved well In certain eschatological perspectives Calvinist would say that they are not saved because God did not choose them to believe he did not elect them or select them or predestined pre and so again a Someone who is reformed for 10 years Should know that Fundamentally, we're talking here the way he's phrasing all this the way he's phrasing it now Is saying that you can demand God's grace.

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He's gonna say oh, no, no, but that's what's being said The reason someone isn't saved is because God did not extend grace to them and hence they received what? Justice they received justice.

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They did not want to turn from their sin.

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They love their sin.

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They love their autonomy and God did not restrain them in their madness and if you object to that then then you're basically saying God's grace can be demanded hence.

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It's not free.

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It's no longer grace So a lot of this really has to boil down to What does grace mean? I? Think that's an important aspect of it Destinate them to believe this is true God owes no one any mercy and this is a big argument that the Calvinist will make God owes no one any mercy whatsoever We are all deserving of death.

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We are all deserving of judgment.

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That's that's 100% true though, but does the scriptures teach us that depravity and the fall brought about an inability? Okay, I just want to While still on the screen because it didn't follow up this this however the heart of God is to see all come to repentance and faith even false teachers Except second Peter's also the one says that these people were decreed they were set apart to these things So We know second Peter 3 9.

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That's not what it's talking about.

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We've you know Potter's freedom the big three second Peter 3 9 math 23 so on so forth so forth We've we've covered all these things he hasn't covered here I'm sure he does later at some point well, okay I assume he does later.

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I don't know that ability to even believe or recognize that we are sinners Okay, now I messed that up there, but there There was the thing that caught me Let me see if I can Yeah here.

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Let's see if this this comes through and the fall brought about an inability to even believe or Recognize that we are sinners so Total inability then you just define this If you if you're totally depraved a total inability You can't even recognize you're a sinner and when I heard that I'm like Everybody recognizes they're a sinner you press that or you embrace it and run with the rebellion But no, it has nothing to do with whether you can recognize you're a sinner.

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It has to do with When you recognize you're a sinner as the vast majority of people do recognize that they are sinners What will you do about it? what what is the what is the Predilection of your will so this is this is what I was talking about when you you hear people who claim to have been reformed in the past and Yet they they don't They don't speak as They don't speak the way we speak today and since this is a recent deconversion on his part You would think he would at least still have the capacity To Speak the way that he used to speak or to You know, it would be interesting to know what church he was a part of I'm sure that the The elders, you know met with him and talked with them or at least offered to you'd be amazed how many times elders offer to meet with people and they run off and slander all the elders and yet they never never took up their invitation to meet and to speak and stuff like that, but anyway, I I'm sure that Answers were provided at some point But It's still very hard to understand why people use language as a convert away from a system that they never would have used when they were in the system if you want to reach the people are In it and clearly that's what he wants to do.

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That's why I spent all the time putting these videos together He wants people to become non Calvinist like he is Then why why do this I don't understand it and So I didn't Like I said, I just saw this this morning.

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Then I drove hours to get here.

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I've had very little time to do anything other We're not doing a radio free Geneva.

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I don't I haven't been able to cue stuff up and go from point to point unfortunately, just honestly in Trying to follow his argumentation.

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It is Horribly mixed up.

37:06

There's no There's no Yeah, it would be really hard to respond to this because it just it's just all over the map It doesn't you know, you know, at least when we can present reform theology we can present it in a coherent Connected consistent fashion this Alleged refutation is none of those things.

37:33

It's not coherent.

37:35

It's not consistent it's It's a mess as far as that's concerned But when scanning through the second video I think I was actually downloading or something and it takes some time, especially The way we access the Internet while I'm on the road I think I was just using you know, the feature where you can sort of just scan along and see what's in the video well, I saw something about John 6 and And so I'm like Let's at least take a look at it.

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Let's at least see what what's here and so I finally I found it and I Wish there was a way that I could make this Bigger I'll be down there and dead yet.

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Oh coina.

38:31

I did a little person I Don't know if you can see that The font is pretty small, but there are six points that he seeks to present Regarding John 637 Now I've lost track and so have you of the hours that we have spent in John chapter 6 I'm Walking through the text and Oh rich says very readable.

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Yeah So I'm not gonna do that again Right now.

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I mean Layton flowers and I are debating this in in March again, so we'll definitely be going over it, but we have just I've written books on it done by the father.

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There are chapters and the Potter's freedom God's Sovereign Grace and So as I look at this I am once again reminded of why I am a Calvinist Why I am reformed and why I can have reformed brethren treat me like dirt and I'm still reformed because How other people treat you isn't Has that should have nothing to do? with your conclusions as to what scripture is actually teaching and So we all know that John 637 is in a context We all know that what comes before and after it is vitally important But one of the things that I see from quote-unquote former Calvinists is that they tend to be atomistic That is they they break the text up into parts Rather than dealing with it you know the the power of the Romans 9 debate Was that I could stand there? this this exact text though I Know I've showed you all I've now blued the pages in my That's the Alan text but this exact text open Romans 9 and I can simply walk through the text and Go point by point by point Consistently applying the same hermeneutical system.

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I'm not saying they're going.

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Oh dear.

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St.

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Augustine.

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Tell me what to believe Anything like that at all it's the same exegetical Standards that I use to defend the deity of Christ the Trinity the resurrection the historicity of the birth of God Whatever justification by faith in Romans what whatever it's the same Methodology it's the same hermeneutics and When people see that that's that's the power of Biblical Reformed theology.

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So here you have John 637 all the father gives him will come to me when it comes to me I will never cast out and Here are the six points Here are the six points, all right, okay number one the purpose and context Which we should read the gospel of John is laid out plainly to the readers in John 20 31 well Yes, and no John cannot expect someone who is listening to Jesus in John 6 to know what John's gonna write in John 20 31 so But when you get to John 6 you can refer back to the first five chapters and you can trace Themes and so on and so forth.

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That's that's perfectly fine but to jump past Jesus's words is to dehistoric eyes It's to make the event there in Capernaum Pretty much irrelevant historically disconnected from from time and so If all that's means that you know, this is so that you may Know and believe and understand that Jesus is the Christ and believing have life in his name things like that.

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Okay But there's all sorts of stuff in the gospel of John that's not specifically about that But that provides foundations and Needed context and things like that number two there are potentially Two groups of people mentioned in 637 the given are The Apostles this is a theme in John's gospel jumps to John 17 that yes, the Apostles have been given to Jesus there's a strong case to be made that Jesus in chapter 6 is only speaking of the present situation and that at this time he Knows that the focus is for his Apostles and perhaps also the 70-plus followers It's not until after his resurrection that the focus shifts to all Let's assume the given are in the first half and the second half the verse are those who come to Jesus Okay, here's where it completely falls apart.

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This is Ridiculous.

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This is where I said Jesus becomes so patently obvious Because if you'll read it in its context Jesus is explaining the unbelief of the Jews who have heard his preaching and teaching some of them have even gotten in boats and rode across the lake to Capernaum to hear him say more and He has said to them you are not believers.

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You are not believing That's the context there is nothing about context.

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Oh, let's jump over to John 17 Let's jump over here.

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But let's not do what you do in any other text and Let the text speak for itself.

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Let's not walk through it word by word phrase by phrase sentence by sentence in the original language Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no That'll lead you to Calvinism can't do that.

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So let's do something completely different so There are potentially two groups really no Jesus is explaining why they will not come to him It's because they have not been given by the father All that the father gives me will come to me and the one who comes to me.

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I'll never cast out please please recognize something else and this is devastatingly dangerous When you try to get around the plain meaning of Scripture You end up destroying most of the promises of Scripture and we've said this before about latent flowers when you try to get around what John 6 is actually saying you end up robbing us of For example the promise here the one who comes to me.

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I will never cast out.

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Oh, that's just the Apostles, right? Oh Well, no, um Or in here what he's what he's doing is he's saying so let's assume the given so the first phrase all the father gives me are in the first half and the second half the verse are those who come to Jesus as if These are somehow different groups we're gonna chop of a sentence up in half and Not let the first half the sentence determine the meaning in the second half of the sentence.

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I mean, this is astonishing I Mean, this is this is Manhandling the scriptures because the one who comes to me is The one who's been given by the father There isn't any way around this There is no way around this in the Greek language.

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There's no way around this in the English language It's a simp.

47:14

It's a sentence people and when you have to start going well, we've got this group over there like over there You clearly just don't want to believe what the text is saying so Number three negative inference fallacy I'm I love it when we start getting fancy and bring in them their Fallacy arguments it happens all the time.

47:42

I can do that, too I prefer exegesis, but I could do that too negative inference fallacy And I know where a lot of this stuff's coming from and you do too if you've listened to radio free Geneva You've you've heard this stuff, you know who he's been reading Just because the given come to Christ Does not mean that no one else can come to Christ so right before this Jesus says you're not believers and now he's explaining why they will not come to him and in verse 44.

48:18

He's gonna say No one is able to come to me Unless the father who sent me draws him and I will raise the one that I draw up on the last day.

48:29

I Mean, this is the exact opposite of what the text plainly states and And I just I just go why? What what is the motivation here to get around what's being taught I In fact Jesus says in John 12 32 that he will draw all men to himself and Again see this is this is what Norman Geisler does It's what every sinner just has to do because they don't believe what John 6 teaches They don't believe it So I'm gonna jump out of John 6.

49:10

I'm gonna go to a completely different context I'm gonna go to John chapter 12 and I'm gonna read this back in there and That way I can make it say something that it actually never says I'm gonna talk about the Greeks in John chapter 12 that Jesus never met with and I'm gonna turn John 6 on its head by going and and making it mean That the people who heard Jesus say these words were clueless as to what in the world He was saying because they didn't have John 12 yet.

49:42

You see what this does This is taking a potato masher to the text and it leaves it torn to shreds It's horrible and I just go why There's no reason to do this there's no translational issue nothing just believe what it says So this is the same word used John 6 44.

50:08

Well, it is in a completely different context The emphasis they make on that verse is the word draw But the emphasis in that verse is that no one can come unless the father draws him So it's to talk about John 6 44 Okay, but the emphasis in that verse is that no one can come unless the father draws them and He raises every single one.

50:36

He draws the Sun up on the last day That's the rest of the sentence people When you have to chop every sentence you're dealing with up into pieces you are not dealing with Scripture honestly at all Why what is the motivation? I don't get it.

50:56

I really really don't So we have three points so far that mean nothing That they are a complete waste number four Judas was given to Christ and then lost So the all in 637 is not all without exception as the Calvinist would proclaim again one of these a Lot of what I've seen in this gentleman's statements involve fundamental category errors Not being able to distinguish.

51:29

Well, you know if he's gonna say hey the only ones given to given to Christ are The Apostles and so since Judas was one of them then that means he was given for salvation What? So there's not so apostleship and salvation the same thing Of course not, of course not and remember so many if if this is how we can now play Jenga with the gospel of John to where John 6 is limited to this audience then John 3 is limited to Nicodemus Right, why not? Any of the promises in John 4 the woman at the well, right? Why Can't we why can't we just go? Well, this was a you know, John chapter 8 all the stuff in there, you know If the Sun makes you free you should be free indeed.

52:20

It was just simply Jews that time has nothing to do us Let's just go with the hyper dispensation lists who only say acts and Romans are for today or something like that Let's just throw it all out there This is just simply an unwillingness to believe It's all it is so So the all in 637 is Not all without exception as the Calvinist would proclaim it.

52:47

It's not the Calvinist.

52:48

It's Jesus All that the father gives me will come to me.

52:57

I Will raise them up at the last day.

53:00

I will lose none of them.

53:01

That's Jesus speaking So if you're confused about Judas, you might want to reconsider the misreading that you have put into Judas at this point That's not the Calvinist.

53:14

That's Jesus saying but here we have well Jesus didn't really mean that Hmm.

53:22

All right Number five Calvinists are not the given the disciples are Jesus has not died and rose again yet The Holy Spirit has not come and the Great Commission has not been given the Apostles are not even Regenerated and are not understanding many things.

53:39

Jesus is talking about at this point who? Cares Are you telling me That the meaning of John 6 because the disciples were confused about it Can't be can't be plainly discerned by us today That Jesus was confused This this is hermeneutics.

54:02

No, it's not You adopt this kind of hermeneutics.

54:07

It's the end of the resurrection.

54:08

It's the end of the deity of Christ It's the end of inerrancy it's the end of inspiration scripture it's done It's done That's one of the big problems about Have you ever noticed how Arminianism over time develops into universalism and into apostasy? There's a reason for that It does not have within it the bulwark that can stop that now Calvinist can become apostates too but the denominations Any There is a natural progression in Arminianism that leads to a degradation of The inspiration of scripture because you do not have a sovereign God who can give you inspired scripture if there is a Reform Reform people the reformed understanding of God's sovereignty and man's creatureliness Has a foundation for explaining how it is that men can speak from God as they are carried along by the Holy Spirit we don't believe in human autonomy and So God can use men in such a way as to accomplish his purposes But Arminianism gets rid of that Synergism is as a whole gets rid of that but Arminianism especially and so you look historically and Arminianism has led to a tremendous amount of Universalism and Degradation of the view of scripture and so many of these mainline denominations, you know Where did they start heading down the cliff is in their view of scripture where it was? and so When you Listen to what's just being said here Jesus has not died and rose again yet.

56:00

Oh so everything in the Gospels about the nature of the gospel and the call of the gospel of the work of the cross All this stuff is irrelevant.

56:13

Is that what we're being told? It's absurd The Holy Spirit has not yet come yeah, so The Great Commission has not been given hint of that.

56:26

It's certainly in the Old Covenant That's the whole point The Apostles are not even regenerated.

56:35

Well exactly.

56:36

How do you know that? There isn't a specific point well the Holy Spirit well Holy Spirit hasn't come in the sense of indwelling them But you think really when Jesus was dealing with them and showing them from Scripture after his resurrection The fulfillment of everything that they weren't regenerated at that point when did it happen we're not told But how is that relevant to John 6? We're not told that either and They're not understanding many things.

57:04

She is talking about at this point Well, even Peter said well you have the words of eternal life at the end of this Did they understand all of John 6? Nope, they didn't Did Jesus certainly did? Finally point number six.

57:20

We've gotten we've had nothing to this point I hope we all see this there is nothing on this screen that even comes close to even Offering the beginning of a meaningful effort to exegete and understand John 6 37.

57:33

This is all completely 1,000% how to get around this and It's an utter failure utter Failure with all due respect to the gentleman.

57:46

I don't know.

57:47

I Don't know what his motives are But I can recognize Absolutely hackneyed eisegesis when I see it John 6 37 speaks nothing about eternal life Okay, if you want to separate it from verses 38 and 39 But the rest of it specifically says I will raise them up to eternal life all the father gives me I've come down not to do my own will the will of him who sent me this will that of all that he's given me And that's what John says same context follow it straight through no synergist can read through John 6 straight through it They can't do it.

58:37

It is impossible.

58:38

And here's a glowing example I mean over the past 30 years how many of these failed attempts get around John 6 that we looked at I Mean it's it's just Algo knows Algo knows how many we've done I don't but it's dozens and They're all desperate to get around what we've got here so I Have come down to have not doing my own will but the will has sent me and this little something that of all that He's given me.

59:10

I lose none of them, but what raise them up in the last day.

59:12

That's eternal life folks So within two sentences There's nothing about eternal life However, John 6 27 40 and 47 do and what is the order of these passages? Have you seen this before? We've seen this before This is what Geisler did They cannot walk through the passage.

59:36

Boom.

59:36

Boom.

59:37

Boom.

59:37

Boom.

59:38

Follow the argument can't do it cannot do it Because 635 through 39 is going to determine what you do with 40 Has to if you're gonna be honest with the text With all due respect is bro.

59:54

This is the most dishonest handling of this text outside of the hyper dispensationalist stuff I think I've ever seen.

01:00:02

I mean, I'm just with with all due respect Every word on this screen is wasted It is simply meant to obscure Not to clarify.

01:00:13

That's the this is how to obscure Scripture not how to teach it not how to clarify and so Back up a second.

01:00:27

What is the motivation? why I I don't know because I don't know the gentleman.

01:00:35

I don't know what happened in his life.

01:00:37

I don't know In my experience, there's normally other stuff going on.

01:00:42

There's normally stuff within the church There's already stuff within their families or their personal lives.

01:00:47

There's not yet That's what I've encountered, but I have no way of knowing in this situation But you do have to go if someone claims to have been a Calvinist for ten years and Then they can manhandle John six.

01:01:04

There's got to be a reason for it.

01:01:05

There's got to be a motivation.

01:01:08

I Have to wonder if someone's not gonna send me an email and go.

01:01:11

Well, yeah, let's give you the rest of the story Could happen might happen don't know don't know Um, but wow, that was really really really bad I Went over an hour already, didn't I? Oh, I Had another video to show Well, I can keep it the world's not gonna end it's a it's a Supposed to be It's supposed to be a book review of the Potter's freedom.

01:01:49

It's not it's a Really really really bad attempt at ref refuting the Potter's freedom but I saw someone posting it and So I was gonna respond to it, but you know, I just don't have time to now.

01:02:03

We will save that one I said to somebody on Twitter.

01:02:06

I was gonna do so.

01:02:07

Sorry.

01:02:08

We'll get to it when I get back It was only gonna spend a couple minutes on anyways, and we were just dealing with the important stuff right there So we're starting to get a cash build up on the stream anyways so it's probably time to say hasta la vista so long and look forward to the next time we are with you on the dividing line and That'll be when we get back to Phoenix Right after our 40th anniversary celebration.

01:02:35

It's gonna be exciting.