When to walk away from the conversation

Many people have questions about God and the Bible with so many different views about God and how to interpret the Bible.

Many people wonder where they can turn to get biblical answers.

Well have no fear turn to my friend Andrew Rappaport and his friends on apologetics live.

They can answer any question you have about God in the Bible.

Check them out Thursday nights 8 to 10 o 'clock p .m New York time at apologetics live comm.

You can watch or join the discussion at apologetics live comm and challenge him with anything.

Please ask him you're really hard questions and tell him Ben sent you.

To answer your questions.

Your host.

From striving for eternity ministries.

We are live apologetics live here to answer your most Challenging questions.

Anything you have about God in the Bible has been said we can answer it.

I figured Ben should open the show right there because it is the anniversary the one -year anniversary of that

Documentary what is a woman?

Hmm?

Yeah.

Yeah, and I heard Twitter.

Decided they.

I think I guess they said that playing that film on Twitter would be wrong

and then Elon said no.

Wait, I own the company.

We're gonna play it.

Yeah, so.

Yeah, there you go.

So.

Welcome drew. How are you?

I'm good. I'm good.

I'm very impressed that you were able to get Ben Shapiro to computerize his voice

and do the opening of the show.

Yeah, yeah, you know people it's either that or I just know AI.

I May or may not have been programming,

you know artificial intelligence since you know, 90.

So, can we blame you when the robots take over.

Yeah, I don't think so because the the the code I wrote was for the federal government and

oh.

Yeah, they don't they wait.

Yeah, they they would never do anything.

Yeah, they would never do anything wrong.

Not at all.

So.

Speaking of that I just I listened to this thing.

It was by a guy named David.

I think his name is David Martin or something.

But he he was talking about kovat and how this has been in the works since the

1960s and that the patent for the first What is it called protein spike

vaccine Was Pat was patented by Pfizer in

1990 and he has all the documentation for it.

Yeah and people have looked at the background with Fauci and ever since the AIDS in the 80s

and he's been doing research and.

That's so there's a there's a lot of things we could we could look if you start with the conclusion.

You could find the things to line up, right?

We always find that.

So Let's start with tonight's topic and we'll get to it.

But then we could do some things just so people know what are we good because as you know.

We get some people that get upset if we don't jump right to the top.

Yeah, we got to get to it.

Yeah, because otherwise, you know, so beating around the bush.

Yeah, we.

We do an open Q &A.

I mean anyone can come in and ask anything we could discuss anything we get to our topics.

But just because we don't answer what someone wants first thing out of the gate.

Okay, so we're gonna talk about this actually, let me let you do this because this was your topic idea.

So Why did you come up with this topic that we're gonna talk about a little bit?

Yeah, so the topic that I came on.

Well, that'll do it for tonight's show.

Thank you for tuning in but the topic for tonight is Knowing when to

walk away from the conversation, you know.

And we talk a lot on here about how to have conversation how to listen to conversation how to how to

ask good questions but I don't think we've ever talked about when the time is to walk away from a conversation and.

This came about because of someone that you and I had been emailing A.

Pretty early.

Why you why you mention who?

Yeah, Ben Zion.

And so anyone who's watched the last what like three shows.

Yeah about three years.

That you'll know who he is, but.

He wanted my email.

He was talking to you and he wanted my email.

And so I said, yeah, go ahead give it to him.

And and because because for the record, you know.

And you know this but maybe the audience doesn't.

I never give out people's contact information Without permission.

So if you ask me for you asked me for Drew's contact.

I'm not giving it without permission.

I never do that.

So if any of the so that should tell you son if anybody ever tells you that I gave Them

your contact information and I didn't call you first or I didn't already know I had permission.

It wasn't me, right?

Right, but you know, so so I sent him an email That was a reply to what he

had sent you and then he emailed me back and then I emailed him

again, and it was just He didn't listen To what I had to say, even though in

the email I clearly laid it out I put text right in front of him and he just didn't want to hear it.

He wanted to continue to push his narrative and

He basically I told him I said look I can't go any further with this because you're arguing in bad faith and

I told him he was arguing in bad faith because I put a passage before him and I laid out the Context of

that passage and he tried to refute the context of that passage.

Even when I put it in the text.

I Just took the scripture and I put the scripture in the email and He didn't want to

see it.

And so I said, okay.

Well you're arguing in bad faith I can't you know, I'm praying that the Lord will draw him to yourself and I pray

that you come to Saving faith in Christ Jesus and repentance of your sin.

But as far as this conversation, I can't go any further and so After that, I thought about it and I said, well, let me

reach out to Andrew and say let's do a cut Let's do a show about when to walk away from

a conversation.

And I think that that's good.

I mean look you in this was partially you had asked me you knew that I was in Queens, New York.

Which is where he was on Saturday.

You asked if I was gonna go over to his place.

I was 15 minutes from his.

His well the house he grew up in and the apartment he now lives in oops.

He never gave me that.

Yeah, so Ben if you're watching, yeah, I know where you live.

I know where you grow up.

It only took me a couple seconds to figure that out.

But I was 15 minutes away from him and and you were like so you're gonna go over there.

Okay, well I was with family right but as I said to you I just didn't think it was gonna

be Profitable in any way.

I could be wrong.

But I didn't think it'd be profitable in any way because I just was afraid that.

You know, we we'd end up in a situation where it's he like we did on the heard on the show when

he came in.

He wasn't listening, right?

Just wants to you know point fingers and things like that and I'm and we'll deal with My email response to

him too and things like that because I wanted to bring that up.

So so that's what we want to talk about a little bit tonight.

We're gonna do open Q &A.

So we're gonna get to your questions anyone who wants to come in just go to apologetics live .com.

You can scroll down the see the duck icon.

That is where to.

To join us.

I will encourage everyone if everyone who's who's watching live now.

Please share it those who are listening later on podcast or watching later on on whichever

Platform you're watching.

Please share it.

We do appreciate that.

It helps others to know about it.

And then really the thing is it helps people to know that they have a place they can get in questions answered.

I get questions during the week and sometimes we bring them in here.

I'm gonna bring a couple in pride tonight.

Unless people who are here come in and ask questions.

That's the best way to get your question answered by the way is to go to apologetics live .com.

Join us when we're live.

That is the best way but The another good way to get a question answered if you're watching on YouTube While

we're live is to do a super chat.

And if you do that, we will we'll respond to that because well you paid to get that question.

Will or comment so we'll read it but but yeah I mean, we're will we then if we don't

have questions go I go to those that have been emailed in to me to answer.

And that's where the whole thing with Ben was it was an email and it was detailed and I just knew that I

wasn't gonna it was gonna be very hard to give him a detailed Written response because it's just I'm better in

in this sort of media.

He's he's not he prefers writing Is at least what he said, but I thought he

explained himself.

Well, I Don't agree with his but I thought he explained himself.

Well, but so this this is an interesting question I'll say this to you drew

with the question.

When when do you walk away from a conversation?

I When I was younger when I was I see wow,

that's like 20 24 25 when I became a deacon in the church

And I remember being like the first year I was a deacon first or second year and

We were in a leadership meeting and we got into a discussion that was this topic because

there was just someone who had been counseled over and over and over and over and

I remember one of the elders and I have in this discussion and it was like when do you when do you just say?

Enough is enough and I was like never I Literally, I was like you you owe as

long as there's a chance you keep you keep trying you keep trying.

And I still remember he looks at me.

It just goes.

Ah.

You're so young and.

Will it to be young again?

Yes, and.

You know in a sense I I still remember the one time where I I was counseling a couple or a guy

in a marriage and I remember when I decided I Need to walk away.

This is I what two years I've been working with this guy he would call me weekly to

daily and I started to realize after a long period of time.

I'm slow on the learning here.

He just wasn't taking any advice that I was giving.

And so I gave him a homework assignment and I found this to be actually a profitable homework assignment.

I've done it with others and it was helpful.

He just he couldn't get along with his wife.

Now granted I admit these two people should never have gotten married they got married they

weren't saved.

Not sure that she ever was.

But When I asked them why they got married and I'm not kidding.

This was the response he responded with well.

She used to be good -looking, but now she's fat and ugly.

Wow.

Her response was I wanted tall children.

And I'm just like wow, okay, so so my homework assignment form was I want you to come up with 25

things that you Like or at least used to like

about your bride about your wife.

I Said and don't don't call me for help until you come up with a list of 25.

And so he calls me up a week later.

Um.

Can we talk and I said do you have that list?

He's like well, I got three things three I said it doesn't have to be what you like about her now

when you were dating her.

Come up with 25 thing now had he come up with 25 I was gonna have him come up with another 25 another 25 and

another 25 until he starts appreciating his wife.

Okay, because I've done that with others and it worked well.

But he couldn't do it and I just decided that was the time I said, you know what if you can't come up with 25

things then I I don't see any reason in continuing

until you do your homework and That so that was like the the the end of

toward the end of the week.

Sunday we go to church and I think it was like that Monday.

I got a call from a friend of mine.

Hey, you know.

So and so wanted me to help counsel him.

He called me up.

You know, he talked to me at church and wants me to call this week any advice and I said, yeah.

Tell him to write a list of 25 things.

Or you won't talk to him and I realized what he immediately did was just say well if you

don't give me what I want.

To hear I'm just gonna move on to someone else.

Really would it for him?

It was just he wanted to vent About his wife and feel okay about it.

Mm -hmm, and I realized I Was wasting my time with him.

I could sooner talk to the wall and get a better response because.

That's just what ends up happening.

It's itch.

There's a point where you realize you're wasting time, right?

And so really I think that's the question we're asking, right?

How do we identify when we're wasting time?

Yes, and that's really hard because guess what there's times I think where.

You don't know what the Lord is doing in someone's life, right.

I always tell this is an example.

I still remember a friend of mine.

He was at a gas station witnessing now.

Okay, let me explain to folks that don't live in the communist country of New Jersey.

You're not allowed to pump your own gas.

So you you actually have a guy there at all hours of the night that hats to pump your gas because wow.

They still do that.

It's the only state in the Union.

We're nowhere in the state.

Can you pump your own gas now.

Ergun you can.

You you there are areas where you can pump your own gas not in the major cities, but it's based on

population.

But yeah, New Jersey's the only one still and so this he's he was and so we

used to go 11 o 'clock at night to get gas.

Because there's no one in the gas stations, but the gas attendants.

So you had someone to evangelize.

Yeah.

That literally was what we used to do.

And so he's out at a gas station.

He's talking to this guy sharing the gospel and He's he sensed

that this guy might have been getting convicted, but he wasn't sure but the guy was getting angry and

literally the guy just pulls back with a fist and just swings it at my friend and my my friend

just ducked down and the guy did a 360 swung completely

around.

Fell back against the pole slid down.

Put both his hands into his face and started crying.

Mm -hmm and my friend had said he said the last act before this guy

got saved was an act of violence against the messenger and If he just

walked away.

When he thought this guy was getting angry.

Mm -hmm, and he wasn't sure if it was conviction or anger, but he had he walked away thinking it was anger.

He wouldn't have seen that like right and how do you got knocked out in contrast he might not.

But we just don't know we don't know what the Lord is doing, right?

And that's important because we are called to evangelize right and I tell whenever I'm

teaching anyone about apologetics I tell them you're called to be three things.

You're called to be a theologian.

So you must know theology because if you are to have a relationship with the Lord, you must know about the Lord.

So you are to be a theologian?

Second you are to be an evangelist.

The Great Commission is that we go out and we We evangelize we give the gospel to a lost and dying

world and the third you are called to be an apologist.

So you must know what you believe why you believe it and be able to communicate that to others.

Now in that is going to come discussion.

Sometimes it's heated discussion.

Sometimes it's not but We always want to be able to

leave the door open if Say we're in a heated discussion and

maybe we just need to step back a little bit.

We want to make sure That we leave the door open for that person if conviction hits

they can come back to us.

Right, they can run back because you know.

The I saw a I saw a comment up here.

I should have started but I didn't.

It was about by.

About cage -stage Calvinist.

Okay.

Yeah, I saw that.

I think that was D but I'll.

There it is.

There we go.

There we go.

See it's hard for those cage -stage Calvinist, you know, because the cage -stage Calvinist they just

love to argue well the cage -stage Calvinist if you're

not if you Forget the grace portion of the doctrines of

grace.

Whoever you're talking to.

When that next person comes along to give the gospel to water the seed guess who they're not coming back to.

They're not coming back to you.

Because you just wanted to argue and and bludgeon them over the head with your with your

theological knowledge so how we approach them we want to be gracious,

but.

We also if we see where it's going in that direction where we're just wasting time we want to

step back, but we also want to make sure we leave the door open so that.

If the Lord like you said if the Lord is doing something.

We want to be able to be there for when they come back to us and.

Be able to give them that be able to pray with them be able to cry with them if we need to cry with them

but Sometimes it's not the same.

It's not that.

Sometimes we just need to say Okay.

All you want to do is you would you just want to argue you're not listening to anything that I have to say.

You just want to argue to try to prove your point.

This is this is not going anywhere and.

So we need to we just need to cut it here.

But but how we do that is important.

We want to make sure that we're gracious when we do that.

We don't want to to respond in anger.

We want to make sure we don't respond in frustration.

We want to make sure that we're gracious and we are displaying the character of Christ.

When we back off from that conversation.

Correct and.

And it is hard to tell so let me let me tell a story.

I think I've told this here before but a friend of mine Chad Williams and I were out

evangelizing at Huntington Beach and He was you know, he's up on a box

and he did something that was very for him very different just not

what I'm was used to seeing a guy came up very arrogant very

just Not seeming like he really cared to listen to what Chad was saying.

And Chad just turned and I'm saying this is out of character for him.

But he just turned to the guy and goes no gospel for you today.

I was gonna give you the gospel, but no gospel for you and the guy walked away.

Wow.

Chad gets done preaching he gets down and we're packing up and I'm like I go Chad What

was up with that?

He goes, I don't know.

He goes.

I just felt like sharing the gospel with the guy with as arrogant as he was being.

It felt like I was throwing my pearls before swine we're gonna get to that passage in a bit and

Just as he's telling me this the same guy walks over to us and

He walks up to Chad.

And says why won't you give me the gospel?

Mmm, and Chad goes now I will.

And as we walked back to his his parents place.

We're sitting there talking about it and it was like he Chad just goes law to the proud

Grace to the humble.

Yeah, that's really what ended up happening.

I mean he said because the guy's total demeanor changed when he came back and and

Chad felt well now now you're ready to hear the gospel and and the two of them had a great conversation.

Now am I saying that you should?

Tell someone no no gospel for you.

No, I'm not saying that and and and I'm not saying that the Lord spoke to Chad.

I'm not trying to make that claim either but it was just Chad just had for whatever reason he felt it was

it wouldn't be profitable to To do and he had the reaction he had it was

out of character for him, but God used that.

Yep, so yeah, you know while you were talking I was thinking of a time where I had Mormons come to my house.

And it was almost they're the ones that ended the conversation.

I was trying to keep them there, but.

So I'm gonna I'm gonna give you a little trick.

Okay that dr. Silvestro taught me.

When you get a Jehovah Witness or Mormon or someone like that Where you know that once they they figure out that you know

what you're talking about and they want to bolt from the conversation the first question he likes to ask them is.

How much time do you have?

Well, they had already been there for about two and a half hours.

Oh, okay.

Yeah because they'll usually say like an hour and then after ten minutes they tell you they got to go because they have an appointment and.

You know ever since then you just go wait.

I thought you said you have an hour.

Did you lie to me?

Or are you lying now?

So they showed up and I was at work and my dad was living with us at the time.

He said we'll come back around this time.

My son will be here.

They came back when I was there and I brought him in the house and we sat in the living room and I let them Go through their whole

presentation, right?

And then I just start talking to him and we're talking.

Let me stop you there.

Mm -hmm, not to interrupt your story, but I do mean to interrupt your story for purpose.

So why do that right?

You're you're you're showing respect to them.

Yeah to let them Explain everything they want to explain.

Does two things one it shows respect?

So now you can appeal to them say hey, I let you speak uninterrupted.

I did that with Ben when he was on.

The other thing it does it lets you Listen to what they say.

They believe rather than just jumping in going.

Well, this is what you believe right?

You're right hear them out.

Yeah.

Oh exactly.

That's exactly right, I want I want to show them that I'm listening to them and

So so I let them I let them talk and then we start.

I start asking them questions I start getting into the Bible and We

again we're going for about two two and a half hours and you know for our listeners Mormons

always travel in twos and It's in typically you have one one guy that's there

that's on his second year of mission and then another guy that's on his first Year of mission so that they rotate so there's always an

experienced guy and a guy that's being trained and so The guy that was being

trained You could see he was starting to swell up with tears.

And he looked at me and he said so what you're telling me right now is that if I die

tonight I will spend eternity in hell and he said this through tears and

I looked at him and I said yes, and I don't want that for you I want you to come to know

the saving grace of Lord Jesus Christ and You could see he just it was

weighing on him and then the experienced guy said got up and said, okay we're done here and they

jet it out of the house and I but I Tried to track that guy down because they lived

on my delivery route and I tried to track him down to say Hey, if you need to you come

back to my house whenever and talk.

But I couldn't find him yeah, they were never outside when they saw my FedEx truck because I told him I work for FedEx and

I've delivered to the.

House you live in and so they did what most people do when drove witnesses come to their house.

They they saw your FedEx truck and they hid as if they're not home.

Okay.

So, let me let me get some things that were coming up that we have here.

John asked what is a cage.

Yeah cage stage.

Calvinist, sorry I'm learning and so he then looked it up and he said I looked it up a cage

stage.

Calvinist is someone who has learned to look the five points of Calvinism and goes on a rat a

Relate relational rampage, right?

I don't know if that was what he meant.

But but but really what is when you get someone who?

Gets so excited about something in this case Calvinism are just blasting everyone with it.

That's that's the idea cage stage and that is more than just Calvinist.

By the way you have cage stage.

You know Continuationist where they think they they speak in tongues and they start.

Everyone's got to do it and things like so you have you have.

Those as well and and you even.

I had to have ice.

I sent this in a comment on Twitter to Owen Strand.

Because he was responding to someone and he said why is it all.

Every post mill thinks that they have to always talk about post.

Post -millennial ism and I said it's cage stage post millennial is.

Yeah.

All right.

So that Chris is asking this and this is a three -parter.

So I'll just he says why do you guys as a ministry accept ads from?

YouTube that are antithetical to the Christian message is It just

money.

We we have no control over the ads that they that they put up the only way we

could do the super chats is to have the ads so There is a

way I believe to mark the ad to say that you don't like it.

But yeah, I mean if you expect Google or you know to be doing something that

is Going to be in in line with the Christian message.

No.

They would never do it to I'm sure to a Muslim channel, but.

So, yeah.

All right.

So.

So yeah, so it's not just about money we didn't we didn't you monetize for

Decades.

I mean we we haven't you know.

It wasn't that big of a deal but you know the reality is is that we are looking for

ways to to get support and one way is by you know watching

you know watching the show and so.

It's it's just one way that we can try to monetize because it does you know I know this is it's hard for people

to conceive this but ministry actually costs money.

It's not just.

You know, I know everyone's always I used to get bill or call them.

You know or email a ministry and say that we should just live by faith.

You try that at your job go into your boss's office and say hey, I want to live by faith.

You don't have to give me a paycheck if you feel like it good I'm gonna say that's God's blessing.

And if you don't I'm just gonna live by faith.

There's only one person in history.

I know that did that and that was George Muller.

Actually story.

But you see the thing if you read the autobiography of George Muller and you read the introduction.

He says there wasn't anything special about his faith.

Right.

He was trying to show that everybody can have great faith if you just trust the Lord.

And so people think there's something unusual about him and that's not the case.

So real quick haps Hap says he has a question if we're watching on Facebook.

So yes, we are watching on Facebook.

So so joint haps just join us.

Yeah, there you go.

Yeah, just even better.

Gotta set up.

Yeah, and so.

Let me see cuz I saw that Chris Hudson he said.

Okay.

Thank you for response Andrew.

I just follow a lot of ministries that don't use ads.

So I just want to ask.

Yeah, I mean.

Yeah, I mean I.

We used to have ads when we did the live shows we did the live academies

because we use the platform where they did that and.

Man, did they they used to I mean they were had pretty vile commercials

so.

So, yeah, I Think we have a a guest backstage that me.

Yeah, we do.

So you won't bring in Melissa.

I will all right.

Hey, Melissa, how are you?

Okay, no, I don't hear anything.

Anyway.

A few months ago my my niece's daughter

Died, I think they believe she died.

I'm not totally sure if it's true of it.

She died from fentanyl Overdose, okay.

I think she took and this was who again.

It's my niece's daughter he's his daughter, okay, her name is Trinity and she

she died so suddenly and I I was wondering how Should I agree

because I just like I was no thinking like God's good.

But it's just like I just it just hit me all hard with because I don't know for sure.

She's a Christian.

So it hit me really hard.

So I was like, how should we what should we do?

Like how should we mourn when someone we know it's not Christian and how should we deal with that?

Well, I mean one thing that we have to realize is obviously God is sovereign mm -hmm

and They have enough knowledge to know God exists.

Every human being does and so in those last moments of life even

They may have repented they they would know enough.

Maybe through hearing the gospel or knowing that there may be as someone is Overdosing and they're

realizing it.

They're realizing the mistake and they plead to God that could happen.

We don't know.

We're gonna trust God's sovereignty and as it says in end of Revelation God's gonna wipe away every tear.

Yeah, so Even though we think this side of heaven.

It's gonna be impotent.

Look, I have no reason to believe that my mother is in heaven.

As far as I know she remained Jewish up until her death, you know

not.

Being a Christian.

So, yeah, and people think it's so vile of me to how could you say that about your mother?

Because it's true.

It's not about what I like or not like my Wishful thinking doesn't

make it true or not.

Yeah, I have to accept that God knows better than me what he's doing but on

that day When I'm before him, I will understand perfectly.

And then I will know even though this is my mother and now my stepmother who's who is

entered eternity either way I'm gonna realize that

God knows better what he's doing and I'm just gonna have to you know, I will then have a better view of things.

Yeah, and So I think that's the reality so we we have to

we just trust the Lord trust a good and we're gonna we're gonna Hope

that God Redeemed her in the last moments but if

not, we're gonna have a right understanding of how whole how infinitely holy God is and

how sinful we are and We're gonna understand that that was the right thing.

I mean if you think back a couple weeks ago when we had been Zion on He couldn't believe how could

how dare I say that he is as wicked.

Comparatively to Hitler.

Yeah, he went nuts.

But when you compare how infinitely holy God is Then yeah, all of us

are not far from Hitler, right?

Yeah.

We're gonna have a real understanding of that I believe when we stand before God so You know, just trust

God.

He knows he knows better than you and I what what he's doing.

There any Bible verses you could give her just that.

Well.

Offhand, I mean I Think that you know, I mentioned the

Revelation 20, right?

We can weigh every tear but I think that when you you look at Really all

of the passages of how holy God is.

I mean, I think of Isaiah 6.

You know when Isaiah sees the glory of God The only thing he sees about

him in the the wonderful people, you know.

The chosen race all he sees is their sinfulness and his own sinfulness.

Yeah.

They say something like he's undone like he's undone he's undone people and and that's that's what happens when

you see how Really who God is.

You don't see.

We won't see ourselves as good.

I I.

Didn't hear you.

Sorry.

Oh, I like I like people check out truth be told radio.

I said I like to plug myself.

Yes, I know you do.

That's your podcast in doing for a long time.

Yeah.

Thank you.

In doing that thank you for listening and hope your answers get Answered your question.

You can answer and right now.

All right.

Thanks, Melissa.

All right.

Now we do did have a couple others here that I saw Before we get back to you because I would didn't want to get

to to Ben's thing.

But it wants to stay a little bit on in in context here.

I saw one John asked here it is.

Is drew or Andrew Calvinists.

Yes, I Know you don't put the label on your.

But I have no problem putting it on myself because I know what it means.

But yeah, I don't have problem with people when people call me Calvinist.

I do prefer reformed because a lot of people say Calvinism and it just focuses on

predestination and election and Calvin was very vast in his

theological Explanations in many topics, but we don't just follow

Calvin.

We are reformed.

Theology begins with Sola Scriptura.

And so that's our foundation.

That's where we start.

And Truth be told I have Calvin's Institutes.

I've barely read them because because I can go beyond Calvin.

Yeah.

That's the argument.

Yeah, and and you're right, I don't I don't go by the label Calvinist because I don't know what someone else means by

it and so a Label is only good if we're using the same definition.

So if someone asked me, are you a Calvinist?

I will say What do you mean by that?

Okay, because if they have the same definition as me, I'm gonna be a Calvinist.

I Have some.

I still remember the first time I think it was a mat slicks radio program.

And it's one of the questions he asked are you know, so you're a Calvinist and I said well I've had people tell me that I'm a heretic because I'm a

Calvinist.

I've had people that tell me I'm a heretic is I'm not a Calvinist.

The only thing everyone agrees on is I'm a heretic.

Okay, so it depends on the definition both sides call me a heretic.

So and and we'll probably get to there was a question haps asked and That may that may

then expose where some people think I'm a heretic it, you know, one of the one way or another but.

So yeah, so so I want to let's get to you you kind of explained what you said.

Okay enough's enough with Ben.

Yeah, and after that I Threw out one more email

To Ben Zion.

Because he he asked.

Right, and I just said, okay, this would be my final my final thing if he doesn't answer it

yeah, because he was I asked the question and He went off answering something else and I'm like, hey.

You know see that's weird because I asked it I tried to shift the conversation and get him to To answer

something else and he didn't want to go to it.

Yeah.

So here's here's what I end up saying.

I said Ben You said quote no unquote Jewish person

would in time interpret Alma as virgin.

Therefore if you if I could produce just one rabbi Then your whole

argument is wrong and you must admit you're being dishonest in the in continuing this argument.

Right now do you follow what I'm saying?

He said no no Jewish person would do this.

All I need is one but if I have one that's a rabbi like cuz he didn't say no rabbi.

He said no Jewish person.

So if I have one Jewish person then I Have it.

Well, we gave one on the show and that was Matthew.

And well, actually we gave I he he claimed Matthew.

I claimed whoever translated the Hebrew into Greek for Isaiah in the Septuagint.

So I just said in Jewish tradition some commentators and scholars interpret the Hebrew word Alma in seven

in Isaiah 714 as referring to a young woman Who is also a virgin?

Right because that was the argument I was making she happens to also be a virgin one

notable commentator who had this view and I'm not gonna do a good job on the name, but

rabbi Shlomo Yaksik also known as Rashi.

He was from 1040 to 1105 Rashi an Influential

medieval commentator translated Alma as virgin in his commentary on that verse.

His that his interpretation had a significant impact on subs on

Substance a substantial Jewish thought and continues to be referred to those who support

Who support the understanding of Alma as virgin in this context?

And so it's interesting because if you go out to and I was looking this up as you were talking just because I was

curious.

Because this kind of makes some of my point that I had with him is.

One of the things I had said is how does he know that?

That the that we are not having a response to

Christianity and so it was interesting because when I went out to

To the what there's a website the Jewish virtual library and You could look

up, you know, some of his stuff and it looks like they they translated as young woman.

Which the earlier translations had is virgin.

So it's kind of interesting.

But you know, so I put that out there for him to respond.

So now we'll see if he does he hasn't as of when did I send that out?

May 29th and now it is June 1st.

So we can give him time.

He could be busy right, so.

But what am I doing with that?

I'm saying?

Okay.

I only need to produce one, but if it's a rabbi.

Okay.

Okay, so that a rabbi from a medieval period.

Yeah.

Because my argument is the Septuagint was done before the time of Christ.

So they had no reason to Translate it as virgin

Before Christ if that wasn't a viable translation of the word, right?

So You know and and we already discussed the last time here he had already conceded that

a young woman a maiden.

What makes her maiden is that she's not married.

Assuming she was a well virgin.

So what now would that make him a Jewish person that says Alma can mean virgin.

Maybe maybe he's not maybe we'll have it the no true Scotsman phallus any and he'll say well no true Jewish person would

say.

Who knows?

We'll see.

We'll see if he responds.

So, okay KT gave this for you Melissa this is toward you

and She probably had an earlier comment that I missed.

Okay here here it is.

So I'll put this one up first.

KT said.

It's a reminder that you could die any time and people need to consider that their relationship with God

focus on the living person God sees in the long view now.

I'll say this to that I was gonna say to Melissa is you one thing that I remember asking Ray comfort when

my mother -in -law You know attempted to take her life just.

You know and I'm like, how do I how do I deal with this and and Ray, you know Ray had said.

You know if you're.

Because at that point, you know, I didn't know what's happening and.

And Ray was like look if your mother was to die.

Know that the message she'd have for people if she could come back.

Now now my mother -in -law is a believer, but it would be that you come to know Christ.

That there's a real hell and real heaven but and that's the thing we can always say is if the if you're Your

niece's daughter was to come back the message.

She would have for you is to repent.

I want to comment on this comment by KT and Jesus real quick.

It's a reminder.

You can die at any time now.

If you think back to 9 -eleven.

After the Sunday after 9 -eleven John MacArthur preached a message and

He says of that time that the church was packed.

People were flooding into the church.

And what was the message?

The message he gave was that you can die at any time those people who died in the

in the in the towers.

They didn't think that was gonna be their last day.

Yeah, it was.

I think that was the most preached message.

Yeah, so so KT said I mean he is working he is sovereign has sovereign purposes.

The trusting God in trying times Series is good.

That's from Don Green.

Give your niece that book perhaps.

And then I think she corrected it here.

She said You you might get you neat.

Yeah.

No, she just Said it again, but didn't tagged Melissa.

So so yeah, so I see Eric.

I don't see him on camera.

But we'll see if I may actually know who this is, but we'll bring him in.

He's got something covering the camera is what it is you hear us.

Oh, there we go.

Hey, hello, Eric, how are you?

Open.

Yeah for a good reason.

I mean people might be.

People might know how to hack into your computer and.

Yeah, so welcome.

So Eric is well you your website's not live yet, right.

Well, no, it's just starting to.

Yeah, well we could we could plug it but people not much there yet.

It's a journey it's not what I was.

I enjoy sprinting sometimes and it's not gonna be a sprint.

So History 777 .org is your website still a work -in -progress

folks.

But you could check it out.

And so you're you're suffering for Christ there in the Dominican Republic.

Yeah.

Looking to catch some wind I believe right?

Yes.

For four amazing days and today was bad and the rest of the this is the struggle the rest of the

Ten days.

I'm here is supposed to be terrible.

If you look at the forecast, so we're.

I was thinking about flying home tomorrow.

I was praying and I said Lord

Move move my wife move Robin if you want me to stay and I my buddies.

Dominican friend who trained him kite -surfing.

Has a very unusual concept of God compared to us.

So I'm like, wow, this could be an opportunity.

So there you go.

Yeah, I was gonna say, you know instead of kite -surfing.

Maybe you should do something like witness and well, I know I was working on that.

Okay, so let's let's let's give a little history.

Drew you'll get a kick out of this Dr. Silvestro myself.

We go out to a local college and it would it be fair to say we drag you Eric.

And said if I waste this opportunity it was apologetics week week -long conference and I said if I

waste this That alone is sin and I said I've got to go with you, too.

And here I'm.

Okay.

We're sitting there drew that it was hysterical because we're sitting there and I'm literally just watching

Anthony as he's up on this little ledge and and he's sharing the gospel.

No crowd and I could see where he's looking and I turned to Eric and I see now I

said see now Anthony is speaking to that one girl over there.

You know and I described the shirt she was wearing.

Yes, and it was almost as if on Cue.

I said now what?

Anthony is trying to get her to respond and once she responds and I literally was like I said once she

responds she gets up.

And he goes and he told me one of two things she would do and within 30 seconds she got up and started.

Yeah, it was as soon as she got up.

There be a crowd.

Yeah, it

was it

was.

You know, and it was it was for for your first time out.

That was a little stressful.

Yeah, but it wasn't your last time out.

So that was good.

Oh, no, I've been going to Akron.

I went back to Cleveland State once.

It's been really really good.

I'm due to go back out though.

It's been.

I've been dormant for three months and two months three months school schools out.

So there's not gonna be anyone there.

You're gonna have to wait.

Yeah, so so you have any questions for us tonight?

Man, I I just Realized I you were on and I left my buddies out on the

balcony and I just ran in and plugged in.

So no, I I'm just jumping in now.

All I have is wind on my mind.

So I just wanted I didn't want to miss it.

So I thought I'd jump in.

So no, I'm sorry.

I.

Know that's fine.

Well, we I hope you enjoy the kite surfing but at the same time, you know practice what you've been learning with Mike Riddle and

and Get out here in the gospel and Apollo doing some apologetics.

Yeah, so.

For folks know you Eric goes to college campuses and tries to get spur conversations just with the students.

Just one -on -one conversations and using apologetics.

He's got a background in science.

So that makes it a lot of more interesting.

Shall we say when you have people that claim?

Well, I know science.

You can know science and be a Christian.

I know science.

I watch the news.

Yeah.

That was gonna be one of the topics I did have because someone asked about the fact that the.

There was I guess an article and I didn't get a chance to get to it in time.

But I guess there was an article that the CDC the people who were supposed to be during kovat

deciding on vaccinations and and how to prevent spread kept getting together

for conferences and it turns out that the more the people who went even vaccinated people that went to more of these

conferences with the CDC got kovat and.

So someone asked or can we now say that the CDC? conferences about vaccines are

super spreaders.

Full article to see what they were actually saying.

And and now the WHO has just I don't know if you guys saw that but they have Recognized that

this vaccine is causing MS.

That the spike protein the t4 cells is starting to target and kill the myelin sheaths on the

nervous system.

A higher incidence of MS is occurring in the population and vaccinated people.

And it was right on the WHO website.

Now, I didn't vet that out.

But but it came from that guy over in England.

What's his name?

John?

He does those.

He's a nurse and he's brilliant.

The guy is puts all the science out.

Okay, he's got like three million viewers.

Yeah, yeah and

everybody was like I was an anti -vaxxer.

Whatever the medical community has lost its mind.

But yeah, whatever.

Okay.

So Kate Katie said ooh.

Oh kite surfing.

I wasn't listening.

Well You want to explain what kite surfing is to those who may not be aware of

this very dangerous work.

And you have a harness around your waist and a nice long set of lines that go up to a big old

kite that.

You fly above your head and it drags you across the water and you can jump in the air and that's just the greatest thing.

Next to Jesus and my wife I.

Was.

When you said greatest thing and he was I was like, oh you're about to get yourself in trouble.

Because you said Robin is right.

All right, well if you think I'll put you backstage if you think of a question you want to ask.

Just there's a private chat and you could do that there.

All right, okay.

So drew Melissa's asking what's Drew's last name and his

shows called.

What again?

What's that show you do?

It's.

It's a Chris Huff's show that I pretend to be on.

I think that's.

I think yeah, I mean I was thinking that's what we should change the name to.

Because that's about what it is.

But yeah, Chris Han holt's Beat us to it.

My last name is Bonita and the show is matter of theology.

There you go.

And I also started there's a YouTube page for matter of theology and I've got two videos on

there.

Now so I plan on trying to do some more video content as well as more podcasting content.

Okay, so one of the things I was gonna start with Was a tweet that I

got and I had posted, you know for folks who may not be

aware.

We're not big fans of the TV series or

movie series, whatever you call it the chosen and they had a.

Basically they there was a You know for support for the

LGBT they had a flag.

You know the the gay pride flag on set and people saw it now.

You know daily wire post did an article about it and the CEO of daily wire said it

sickened them or whatever.

He was sad that they did that article.

The reality is You know, I shared it and I posted and I basically, you

know had a you know.

The point that you know, see I don't think it's the gay pride flag.

Because they're not about gays.

They're they're about all way more than that and actually They you know, the transgenders

don't like the gays because the gays are going.

Hey, this is just we don't want all this other craziness.

So not everyone's fully on board it's really the Anti -christian flag right because

that's their agenda.

Okay, and so I I made a comment about this and so somebody shared a tweet.

That they shared with me and when they shared it with me, they said take that Andrew.

Okay Andrew goes Challenge accepted.

Yeah, actually, no, I didn't even bother responding but.

But there's something that was said that I found interesting what he shared.

So The the thing that he shared with me is it's it's a guy

that says the the people telling you to boycott the chosen or a Chick -fil -a are

Probably not Christians.

They are cultural conservatives looking for something to be upset about.

Boycotting a TV series about the life of Christ because there are sinners involved in the

production is a clear sign.

You don't understand the gospel at all.

Okay, so you want me to take an Anti

support for an anti -christian agenda.

That's so I'm not really a Christian if I don't support an anti -christian

agenda.

Right, apparently.

Um, you know Christians are supposed to be tolerant of all things.

Andrew.

Yeah.

You know, there's a scripture verse that talks about that.

Yeah, it's it's Matthew chapter 7.

I said we'd get there.

It's a good segue.

Yeah, we go.

You've been doing this for a while.

Haven't.

Yeah I have.

Do not judge.

So that you will not be judged.

I mean that is the passage I mean every non -believer knows for Christians, right.

Wonder what could that mean though?

Do you think true?

It's I don't know is this possible.

Do you think if I read the next verse I might understand what it means not to judge, you know.

I think I do think there are more.

More verses that follow.

Let's look at that.

For in the way you judge.

You will be judged and by your standard of measure.

It will be measured to you.

Oh, it almost sounds like he's not saying you shouldn't judge.

It sounds like he's giving a warning that if you're gonna judge people wrongly, you're gonna be judged by that same

Standard, right, right.

In fact, he goes on to say, you know, it's amazing when we just keep reading the next verse.

Why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye and do not notice the log that's in your

own.

Or how could your brother say let me take the speck out of your eye and

Behold the log is in your own eye you.

Hypocrite.

This gets better and better.

Yeah.

First take out the log out of your own eye and then you'll be able to see clearly to take the speck out of

your brother's eye and Then this next verse kind of interesting the context

do not give what is holy to dogs and do not throw your pearls before swine or

they will trample them under their feet and turn and Tear you

to pieces, you know, I.

Could be wrong here.

That sounds almost like a judgment.

It does.

So, I mean wait, this is the words of Jesus we know that because they're in red letters.

They're the most important right?

Yeah, they are and so.

Do you think is it could Jesus sinned?

No, no, so if Jesus said this as a

judgment he couldn't have judged people and It'd be

a sin to judge, right?

Mm -hmm, you know a bunch of a bunch of liberal scholars got together.

I think in late 80s I think maybe early 90s and it was.

It was called the Jesus Seminar.

Jesus Seminar.

Yeah, the seminar.

Yeah and they got together and they each had a black ball a pink ball

and a red ball and they took all of the red letterings in the Bible and

Decided whether Jesus actually said those things.

A Black ball meant Jesus definitely did not say this.

A pink ball said maybe Jesus said this and a red ball Jesus said it

and I believe in the end.

There was only one passage one verse that everyone agreed Jesus said.

Do not judge.

Who will not be judged?

That's the only thing they could all agree.

Jesus must have said we talked about throwing pearls before swine we

see that in the context of Jesus condemning people for their Hypocrisy

in the way they judge others, right folks.

You've all seen this I'm sure when someone is judging you and you're looking at their life and going.

Pot meat kettle, right?

You you're sitting there looking at someone who is judging you for something, you know, they do far

worse.

Even if you do it, you know, they're worse at it.

Yeah.

Politicians.

Yes.

They would never do that.

No, we can always trust the government.

If the NSA's NSA is listening always trust government.

Always trust government.

Okay FBI.

I'm on your side.

Okay, I'm on your side.

I'm not a whistleblower.

Whistleblower, I don't want to disappear.

Well, you don't suicide me hey, you can always be a whistleblower against Trump and you're gonna be protected

right.

Even if you're not actually a whistleblower.

They'll claim you are one and you're protected your name and identity.

We got us we got to protect you.

So we see about throwing the pearls before swine as we're talking with when to walk away from a conversation.

That's actually not Directly used in in that context, but it is something that it's talking about

judging.

It's talking about hypocritical judgment and There is a thing where?

When you're trying to reason with someone that is that hypocritical.

They got a log in their eye and all they could do is see this little speck in yours.

It is you're offering something holy to people who they don't want trample you.

Mm -hmm.

Okay, and so there is a passage of Scripture though That does tell us how to handle

when we have someone that's like this.

Because the question we were starting with right is when when do we walk away from a conversation?

Well, I'll encourage those of you who are not driving or kite surfing for Eric.

And maybe he can he might be talented enough and have a waterproof Bible and he can kite surf while looking up Titus

chapter 3.

But Titus 3 starting in verse 8 and we're real key is gonna be verse 10.

But it says this this is a trustworthy statement and according to these things.

I want You to speak confidently so that those who have believed

God Will be careful to engage in good deeds these

things are good and profitable for men, but avoid foolish

Controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the law for they are

unprofitable and worthless reject a Factious man after the first and second

warning knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning against sinning

being self -condemned.

So this is something that says hey, we only give them one or two warnings and then be done with them.

Now that doesn't mean we're done with them.

Just we have one conversation type of thing it's the idea that when you see someone who

just is they constantly want to debate these foolish controversies or genealogies in

Disputes the law that it's are those is it limited to that?

No, those are the things that they were doing in Paul's day.

The idea is when someone is making an argument.

They just want to keep arguing over something and just that it is unprofitable.

Unprofitable.

You warn them once you warn them twice and you don't like we did with Ben, right?

We said it on the show.

We said it in the email and I'm done, right?

I like what Gabe Hughes does if you haven't heard, you know, the what videos the

How I just drew a blank on what it means what that when we understand the text that's what

the what stands for but You know Gabe said that one of the policies he has for social

media is When he puts out something and someone disagrees and criticizes him He will

offer one correction.

They were they still don't they ignore what he says.

Then he just does it's a second thing of thank him for the time.

Have a good day.

So he has like a to comment policy with people.

I think that's really good.

That's practicing this out and saying, you know, hey Gave you a chance.

Done with it.

Well, I mean it's like pastor our friend pastor.

Darren's did says he says.

How to know when to walk away from a conversation.

Rule one if it's on Twitter.

Walk away.

Yeah, like this guy who told me you know, like somehow I'm stuck.

I don't know how to answer that.

You know that guy's claim.

You Know I don't see anything in the Bible that talks about the chosen or Chick -fil -a being a

standard of Christian.

That's I don't see that as a definition of Christian in the Bible, right?

Can I answer it?

Sure.

I just did.

Right.

Yeah, I mean but but in getting in into the topic of social media.

Social media is not the best medium to have those conversations hence hence even sometimes an

email.

Hence, I asked Ben that was come in.

Mm -hmm.

Oh Chris is telling me I should stop being logical.

Yeah, hey that logic stuff gets in the way yeah,

so I You know when we look at this we have to realize that you have to do

some evaluating of the person and seeing whether that person is

Is going to be reasonable?

Mm -hmm.

You know here Pastor Darren says reading things according to context is racist well

You know, I know he meant this as a joke, but let's take it in one aspect when you

have someone that starts Reading in motives for you that you don't have.

I mean I've said this for for a decade now that When my

policy is when you tell me what I think or my motives are what I believe and I

correct you and You tell me that, you know, you my motives better than

I know my motives I'm done with you.

You're not being reasonable and that is for me That's when I end a conversation

Because I now know I'm not dealing with a reasonable person I don't know Drew's heart better than Drew does

and Drew be deceived.

Yes.

Can I be deceived?

Yes, but I know one thing for sure According to first Corinthians 13

if Drew says this was my motive I trust that because he's a believer

now unless I'm questioning that but I'm not with Drew but You accept that that's what he

says is his motive unless you're proven.

Otherwise somehow you accept that and there are some places in conversation where you can't

tell and so you have to stop and say Okay, what are you getting at?

What's your point now with people that I know really well.

I know when they're asking a clarifying question or they're just kind of giving giving their opinion and whatnot.

But some people that I don't know very well.

I'll say.

What's your motive chickens.

Chickens is my motive.

I mean, you know whenever the chickens show up we we should put them in.

So I mean just for you know, John is here.

He likes to let us see his chickens so.

There they are, okay.

John is a regular and he's got his dad.

It's summertime and his chickens are out.

That's why he's called the chicken, man.

He said chicken is his name.

Tonight was chicken man returns so had to put them in but yeah, when you have someone that's

gonna tell you what your KT says.

Chicken therapy time.

Chris on holds all.

That's random, of course.

But you know, I've had some run -ins with with Drew was practicing his segues and he did well.

Yeah, yeah, it came in.

I adjusted accordingly.

There you go.

So but what we end up seeing is that when we do have someone who is Just being

completely irrational and and I believe that someone telling you What you believe I mean the

first time I had this experience that I remember is this Her name was

Heidi turned out that I found out that she was going after Matt Slick and others Just as bad as she was going

after me, but She used to have a thing where when Facebook first started and you could like you could block someone

and unblock them and reblock them.

And there was no time limit she used to You know tell me that

I believe I'm a Calvinist I'm going to hell because I believe that God does not allow us

to make any choices and He forces us to sin and then she'd block me so I

can't remove it.

And the only reason I knew it was because everyone would comment.

She's actually the first person I blocked because When they put a you had to wait six months before you could block

someone again.

She did that And she couldn't reblock me.

I'm like, ah, I could block her and so and she would create different accounts and do it again but she

told me what I'm like, I Literally, I remember saying to her look that's not what I

believe.

I said my doctrinal statement is there.

It's been online for years And she her response.

She said you're hiding your real beliefs and I still

remember said look One of the two of us knows what I believe Better than the other

and I think I'm the expert here on what I believe right?

And so at that point you're not dealing with someone who is As you said Debating in good faith.

I would say just not being reasonable Chris Hunhold is saying here irrational.

He said like the guy that became entirely unglued when he found out I was.

I Was an officer a law enforcement.

I was wondering what Leo was and started calling me an oath breaker and a Nazi.

Unhinged people are not worth your time and and that is true.

You you you just it's.

But it's a fine line.

Like at what point.

Are they just trying to fight against the goad, right?

You know when I was this was about what we're not when the whole.

After the George Floyd stuff.

When the real autopsy started coming out, it's up that that's the hero George Floyd, right?

Yes, we're all where they raised all the money and then the neighborhood where he died is

now in ruins.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So when the real autopsy came out that showed he it was a fentanyl overdose.

You know, I shared the autopsy on Facebook and.

This guy that I've I've we grew up together.

His dad was one of my basketball coaches.

His dad was one of the top five men Greatest men I've ever known in my life.

He starts calling me a racist.

Who are the other four?

It's secret.

Are you hoping you're in.

You're in the top five, but I'm not even in the.

Dude, I I'm so far down to the you can't count that high.

But uh.

But he started calling me a racist and I'm going really I've we grew

up together.

If there's anyone that knows I'm not a racist It's you.

And then he just kept calling me a race and I said, all right.

Okay, I'm a racist and then walked away.

Yeah, and and that's that's the thing to do.

And on Twitter.

Yeah.

So, let's see.

So let me see some comments we have here.

Chris Honhold said always great to jump online when Andrew and Drew are on the air.

You know, it's you know, it's better than that.

Chris on holds.

When Chris Honhold is on the air, there we go when Chris Honhold jumps in to join us.

Okay, so I guess this was haps big question here.

Beef bacon or pork bacon.

Lol, I'm going pork bacon, dude.

What are you kidding me?

No, it has to be beef.

No, it's poor God.

God made it clear.

All right.

Have you ever had pork bacon?

I mean from a pig.

That's what God made them kosher.

I Love ham.

I love bacon.

I love.

Pulled pork and and it's all because of Christ that you can love them.

Exactly.

And I and I enjoy it to the glory of God.

Yeah.

Alright, so let's get to some of these questions we had here.

So John had asked earlier What are your thoughts on Jehovah Witnesses?

Well, I think they're they're wonderful people who who out of a love for Christ come to my door and

Want to share with me the truth of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

Other than that, they're going to hell.

Um.

Yeah, I mean so so Jehovah Witnesses.

I'll encourage you John if you're not familiar.

I will encourage you get my book What do they believe it will go over an overview of what

Jehovah Witnesses believe but in case you're you're not aware some of the major things that

They would hold to one.

They don't believe Jesus Christ is God.

That's a major one.

They believe that he is the first created being that God

Created Michael the Archangel who came to earth as Jesus returned in the form of Michael

and then Michael created all things so

Major issues there Colossians 1 15 to 18

read that section.

It's very clear that Jesus created all things.

If he created all things he could not be a created thing.

That's why in their translation They have to say four times.

They're all other things because they want to say Jesus was created.

And they say what's the verse?

To which of his angels has he ever said sit at my right hand until I make your yes.

That's that is in Hebrews.

I think he was one.

Quoting.

I think if I'm not correctly some two.

Yeah, and so.

Yeah, so I mean but but you look at the context there.

It's very clearly that you don't need to add the word the word other actually changes the meaning.

It's not there in the Greek.

So that's the biggest thing.

That's why my my question when I see the Jehovah Witnesses out there and they're there there.

For people to ask questions.

My question is always this.

Why did Jesus have to be God?

And they're like, oh we don't believe he he is.

I know I know but why did he have to be God and they go.

Well, we don't believe he is God.

I know but why did he have to be God and eventually they go?

Well, you tell me thank you.

And I'll go he had to be God if he was a payment for our sin because.

If we think that we can sin against an infinitely holy God who is

infinitely holy and we think that just a little time in non -existence would would You

know in a soul sleep is gonna make up for it.

No we have an infinite consequence because he's infinitely holy and infinitely just and infinitely wrathful

and going to punish those with an infinite consequence so only an Infinite being

can pay an infinite fine because it would take us an infinity to pay it so he

had to be God if he was a payment of sin for us if we're not if Jesus Christ is not God

then we're dead in our sin and we all will be in hell.

So if you deny that he's God.

You're you have held to look forward to and I don't want that for you.

That's how I open with Jehovah Witnesses and and we actually so we timed this once Anthony Florida

with our families and we saw a stand and we're like, well, let's first thing before we walked around.

We were like, let's go over talk to Jehovah Witnesses.

This is what it's like with Anthony.

Like our poor families are like again.

So I said, okay, let's let's have some fun with it.

At least I said before we got out of the car said everyone May choose it choose a time

how many minutes before they they shift do the shift and

Try to get away from us.

Mm -hmm, and I was closest I think I said four minutes or no I think I said two

minutes and Anthony said four minutes and I think it was like two and a half minutes that.

Yeah, you know I said what I said in about two minutes and that it was took 30 seconds for them to

just Backupping back away from us and the other group came in.

You know, I was I was just learning about

evangelism and this was right around the time I started with FedEx and

I was just listening to Dr. White Explaining how to evangelize to

Jehovah's Witnesses.

On my way driving into work I stopped at a gas station to get my my healthy honey bun

breakfast from the gas station and Wouldn't you know it at the counter? Was a

Jehovah's Witness giving one of the Watchtower and track Society pamphlets to the cashier

and I said I Guess we're doing this today.

Okay, you're not gonna want that.

And let me tell you why and so I started engaging with the cashier and the Jehovah's Witness and then later that day

While I'm on the route remember, this is my first day.

I'm on the route.

I'm delivering this big 70 inch TV to a house where Jehovah's Witnesses had pulled

up to talk to the guy.

I'm walking back down and they say hey, can we talk to you for a second?

We're doing it twice.

Yeah, so so the number one thing Jehovah's Witnesses deny the deity of Christ major.

They don't believe in a in a hell an eternal hell.

They believe that when Someone dies they go into what they call soul sleep just non -existence.

And then there's a judgment where God will bless those who are his and they will spend

eternity on earth.

Well, sorry a hundred and forty four thousand will be on earth and then the rest are in heaven.

Hmm.

New heaven new earth.

You'd rather be on the new earth rather than new heaven.

Okay, which is interesting when they take communion.

No one takes communion because only if you're a member of the order.

Which by the way, there's 144 ,000 are quite clear in Revelation, they're all

Jewish they're of the twelve tribes of Israel.

So don't know what the Gentiles do with that, but.

Uh, uh, uh, do you see what I see?

I do.

Uh, there he is man myth the legend.

Holds a voice of reason radio.

Hey guys as captain America.

Not not so much these days.

Well don't fit like it used to.

Well you're captain America in my heart.

Have you taken Chris Honnold's into your heart.

Captain America Captain America into your heart.

Okay, so This would get so.

We can some fun discussions with Chris here, too.

Oh, hey, I've meant to put this one up.

Melissa said this this from earlier.

There's nothing wrong with receiving money to support your ministry.

Yeah, and that that's the thing of you know, I Look folks, I would be happy to not run the

ads on on YouTube if people would would support the ministry more.

I'll just be honest and I guess I should put the banner up from where if I could find it.

There's a support page.

So if you go to striving for turning dot org slash support, you could support us.

You know our whole ministry and we're not a ministry that we don't have Staff

payroll things like that.

We give the money toward ministry.

So that I think the last number was 76 of all the

donations that come in go toward ministry not overhead not salaries not things like that and

That's to help smaller churches that can't afford to get people to come out and speak to come out.

That's what we try to do.

That's what that most that money is going to order is towards travel.

And so yeah travel costs are have tripled and so the money doesn't go like it used to just

the way it is.

And and and I I just I it does bug me with the fact of you

know people that somehow think like if we're Monetizing YouTube or putting ads on the

website or if I ask for support somehow, I'm doing something.

I'm not trusting God.

Well, I am trusting God for you know, I I don't draw I draw a

small salary from the ministry.

Very small it doesn't even pay my mortgage.

Okay, not even half the mortgage actually.

Yeah, it pays less than half the mortgage.

Okay, so it's not a lot.

But the only reason they did that they started paying me anything was because my kids were in college and I had no way of

paying it and so.

You know, I had a way of paying it, but I didn't have a way of paying their increase they did.

At the second year of college and so they said look we want we wanted to support you.

And so but yeah I why because we really want the money to go towards the mission

of striving fraternity, which is discipleship.

And so we look for where we're not begging for money all the time.

I don't like doing that.

So.

Well, if I can say something about that Andrew, um, you know, Paul himself said, you know in sending

you know Letters out to the churches talks about certain people that he sent and he said these are

men that are worthy of your support and he even in

In talking to the churches about bringing money back or gifts back to the church in Jerusalem.

The idea that we can support one another's ministries is a biblical Concept

there's nothing wrong with it.

The difference I think is that are we going out of our way to like hey You need to really

give if you want our ministry to succeed you got.

That's that's where you're you're putting the pressure on somebody else to make you be

successful.

Rather than saying and and you know us we don't like to even mention it on voice reason radio at all.

But it's like if you want to support this is how you can do it.

This is a way that you can support and then it's like, okay Lord, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna drum beat this drum into The

ground.

I'm not gonna you know guilt them over it.

I'm just gonna make that available.

It took a lot of effort by several people before we even did anything like a patreon.

Because there is that sense where you're like, I don't want to make people feel like they have to make this happen.

I you know, it's like and I know you're you don't you don't be go out out of your way to

Bring all kinds of money into the ministry.

You're just trying to make the the you know, the ministry have enough to you know.

Be successful.

So for people to say you're not trusting the Lord what you're basically saying to Andrew and other ministries is I

Don't want to have to support you.

I Just want you to trust God and then God will miraculously happen.

I don't have to do anything if you say that you make me feel bad and honestly folks if you're saying that

shame on you.

Shame on you.

These ministries it look my ministries run out of my house.

I don't even like saying ministry, but other people call it that so what's the reason radios run out of my house?

Rich and I pretty much pay for the website.

Somebody else maybe throws up some money at us to help pay for that website once in a while.

And then we have a couple people that pay through patreon to help us pay for the monthly cost for hosting and that's it.

We that helps us put the show on the air without an undue burden on us.

But we're not going out and At no cost.

I'll tell you this right now.

I know Andrew I know that he is going to these churches pretty much at no cost.

Unless maybe that the church can help them get there or give them a place to stay.

So that the churches are getting the you know, the apologetics training that will benefit their congregants.

For you to sit there and say well, you're not trusting God.

How dare you?

You know you want the benefit but you don't want to you don't want to be part of at least holding the

rope.

So they can go down and do the work.

I don't say that to shame anyone.

But that is just on that that really bothers me and this is coming from somebody.

Andrew will do this on my show.

He'll try to fundraise for our show.

I don't do it.

I don't.

Like Andrew always tries to raise money for other.

He does.

But I don't like doing that.

Because I don't want to guilt people into it and I'm irritated when I hear people say You're

not trusting God.

That is that is just shameful for someone to treat you that way when all you're asking is Hey

all were.

If you can help here's how.

Yeah, I'm a guy who Because I was a Christian and he was a Christian.

He wanted me to give him a copy of my book.

What do they believe?

And he was like as a Christian, you should just you should give that away.

And I I just I still remember I turned home and I said, let me ask you a question.

How much is 14 years of your life worth?

And he's like, what do you mean?

I said, well, that's how long it took me To study and read and get all everything

together for that book.

14 years of Diving in and reading and studying and You

think it's just to be free.

I Mean and the paper cost money too.

So I should I should know all that time, but I should pay for you like Okay, so can I do the

same with you?

Yeah, yeah, do you have a pressure washing company, you know, you're a

Christian.

You should just come pressure wash my driveway for free.

Yeah.

Well, that's that's the thing about books is most people have no idea.

I have several friends who are authors.

One of them actually did one time.

He's it wrote fiction and He broke down.

What the actual cost of putting it together printing it binding it?

Going through the entire expense and by the time you actually put a price tag on it and just start selling.

You might be lucky if you break even so the idea that you should give it away.

Who's given.

How about this.

How about you pay the people that put the books together for Andrew so he can put them together and give them away.

Can you do that?

So so Kofi says.

You know that you're trusting God to provide through the ordinary means that

ministry is provided for.

Through the kindness of God's people.

So the nor the ordinary means is you give to your church first?

Yes, first foremost you give to your church and then out of the Abundance

of what God has given you be on that you can bless other ministries.

And and some of those ministries as Melissa saying drew Chris and you each let us know how we can.

Ministry, I appreciate both your ministries.

So then you can go to voice the reason radio matter of theology and support them.

So Chris how they support you.

For for us there's really not a way to do that because now we used to have a

patreon and The only reason we started a patreon.

So if you listen to old older episodes of matter of theology, you'll hear me say, you know We do have a patreon and

yada yada yada.

And the only reason we started that is because my mom wanted a way.

Give to the ministry and so I said, well, we don't have a way for that.

It really was like, you know Dave Jackson from a school of podcasting says, you

know, you need someone other than your mom to listen to your podcast.

But but then we did away with a patreon and.

So, I mean we really don't have a way.

To do.

Well, okay.

So so the way to do it.

So if you want to donate to matter of theology, here's what you do.

Go to Christian podcast community org where they are also a member.

Go to the shows find matter of theology and in there at the bottom of that page is a

place to leave comments.

Leave the comment saying can you please give us your address or a PO box or something where we

can send you a check?

There you go.

All right, I guess I have to do this because Melissa, you know shamed me into it now.

So If she didn't I was going to.

So if you go to slave to the king .com that has the links for all of our

stuff including the patreon that we use I in one of one of these days I

Really should get around to using patreon the what it's designed to is that you provide extra content.

I Don't manage my time.

Well, yeah but So one of these days maybe it will do that and maybe if we get

enough some people wanting it will do that but if you go to that, it'll take you to the patreon and that will

you know, that's how you can contribute.

We used to have a One -time donation through

Who was it?

The one that was going to charge you all kinds of money if you did wrong speak, uh, I Forget the name of it now.

Yeah.

Not.

We used to do that and then when it came out that yeah, they could you know, just basically docked your money Right out of your own

personal account.

I'm like, no I'm not gonna have people who are kind enough to don't donate to us have their money stolen because

PayPal decided I had wrong think.

So we don't have a single way of doing that at this time.

So patreon is the only other way So if you're inclined to it is it's set up for monthly.

I think I've had some people suggest some other means to me.

I just got to look into him.

You know if you want to support Chris Han holds Personally in his next career.

You could give the money of striving for eternity.

Just mark, you know, Chris Han holds chief blogger.

No, no.

Have enough money.

He has no more excuse why he can't work for us because the money's there for him.

No.

This is gonna happen.

Yeah.

I'm trying Through you should you should set up a substack brother much better than

patreon.

So so we I have to look into it.

So Melissa did ask.

Okay, so it if I can't pay my mortgage from the ministry.

How do I pay my mortgage?

And so the answer to that is I I still have side work that I'm capable of doing.

I don't require a lot of sleep.

And so I have a background in cybersecurity and things like that.

And so I have other means that I can do and I do that because I don't want there's two reasons

one I don't want to have to try to raise enough money To from

ministry that the that money would go toward feeding my family versus ministry.

I want the money going toward ministry.

So We all of our speakers Anthony Frank people who've spoken with us before

anyone that speaks in the future We have other means of income So that we could do

ministry with the ministry money.

That's that's kind of our mindset.

The other reason is very simple I'll be honest with you folks that don't know a lot about the way ministries parachurch

ministries work.

When they start getting big they have salaries when they have salaries.

They don't want to fire people and now they're stuck when bad times come like we're in now where people have to make

decisions.

How do we keep the money coming in and for the sake of salary?

It sounds good.

You're taking care of those people working for you.

You make decisions That are not good.

We don't have that problem if my salary is gone.

My salary is gone it would affect our living sure, but

It's it's not going to Put me in the poorhouse because I have other means, you know, I just pick up

another job or something, you know so KT

said Andrew could snoop into our computers probably be careful.

This one holds may know a thing or two about that.

We got to find out what episode that is.

Okay, someone should.

It'll be worth it.

Because we've got somebody who discovered our show who is literally like going through seven years of shows

and is Commenting on almost every one of them.

So the next show I'll just ask that that particular user.

Hey go.

Well, they're listing in order.

It's gonna be a long time before they hear that.

I.

Can't tell how they're doing.

It's it's random it.

I don't I'm going to respond to the comment.

I know it's definitely within the last three three years.

Yeah.

D says Paul was a tent maker just to be in context.

So you want to share that story since we broke is it's.

No, don't just mention inside, you know stories without explaining them if you get an

inside joke.

You got to explain it.

So Chris, I'll let you do the honor of this one.

Because I swear we've told this I have a dozen times already so I'm sure everybody knows it but in case there's new so

Andrew has had a running joke about having you know spot being able to spy on me.

You think it's running joke.

So one time we're recording and I forget what

prompted it, but we.

We were.

I think we were talking about.

You know the the little sound bites and stuff that you you tend to grab and we were talking about having yes you.

Poor rich.

Giving him a complex.

I'm just saying but so.

You could say that I would do.

I mean do that.

Although I haven't been frequently I.

Don't know what you're referring to, you know, I was listening to the latest episode of voice of reason and he did the same

thing.

But so anyway, and I think we were having gremlin issues that night and I and I made a joke.

It's probably Andrews fault.

He's got cameras spying on us and as I'm saying this while we are recording

Andrew is real -time not realizing that we're saying these things is Commenting

because I always ask.

Hey, we're getting ready to record.

Please.

You know, please pray for us and Andrew made a comment.

Oh, I already know I have cameras in your house.

I'm reading that as I had just made the comment.

I lost rich.

Rich is trying to say something.

I lose it.

Busting up like nobody's business.

Andrew has no clue at this point what just happened and it's not until later when he hears that and he starts

dying laughing.

Cuz he goes like wait.

So literally it was the most perfect timing we had just said it.

Rich is starting to move on.

I see Andrews comment and that was the end.

We lost the show.

It was complete Candelarium after that.

Or anything to your camera.

So I should pastor Darren Steed has outed me.

Oh, he's out.

It does that to people?

Yeah, here we go.

Andrew has a full -time job raising raising fundraising for everyone else's

ministry.

Yes.

It he says Andrew could do an AI thing with my voice scary.

Yeah, I probably could you know, I think I think I have a

great idea.

Okay Drew how much would you like to hear Chris Han holds accepting a

job for striving for eternity?

You and I are gonna have a talk.

All right great idea.

Let's see if we can get through some of these questions Kind of quickly so caps had asked that it wasn't really

a question.

I guess it was but he just said explain limited atonement.

So let's go through this because this is where I think I may end up differing with both

Drew and Chris now I'm gonna say and and there's a term that I've

been hearing lately called classic Calvinist and and that would be more in

line with what I am.

So there is and and there is a book that That I'm gonna be reading.

It is called I'm trying to look it up From heaven he came and

sought her definite atonement in a historical biblical theological and pastoral

perspective and It's several different articles.

But there is an article by Karl Truman on John Owens on the nature of Christ

satisfaction the issue being is that John Owens work of

death of death Really changed for many the view of

or some would say the view of limit what a limited atonement is.

So I Would I would argue that a limited atonement means quite clearly?

That there are those in hell.

Everyone but everyone except the Universalist believe the atonement is limited.

Okay, unless you believe everyone's going to heaven or everyone is going to hell we

believe the atonement is limited and So with

that We we recognize the fact That there are those in

hell it's limited but now the question is By what standard what

is it that limits so and really the question comes down to

The sufficiency the efficacy of the atonement it comes to the issue of who

did Christ die for.

Okay, so let's deal with these things.

I'm gonna give my view.

I'm then gonna let these brothers correct me.

So I'm okay with it.

So When we when and and even the Puritans when you read a lot of the Puritans

You will see them speak of the fact that Christ's death was sufficient for

all effective or efficient for few and That is the idea that

did Christ die for all people.

Or only for the elect and this is the way it's often discussed so.

Mm -hmm.

The issue that I have that I bring up is We all look at Scripture so first

John 2 2 It says and I'll back up and read verse 1 my little children I'm

writing to you these things so you may know so that you may not sin and if anyone

sins We have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the righteous and he himself is

the propitiation of our sins.

And not ours only but also those of the whole world

now.

There's there's the issue here is Christ is clearly the text is saying Christ is propitiation.

That's a big fancy word.

It means the satisfaction.

It means that it was the pain that it satisfied the father.

Christ death satisfied the father now.

Mm -hmm.

The issue is Who's the world.

Does world always mean world.

Okay.

Well world can mean every human being.

But it doesn't have to but whole world qualifies it.

Okay, granted that qualifies it but that could be the whole world just meaning all the all the people groups.

That's a fair rate reading of it.

And and I'm I'm gonna take for granted I'm gonna assume that's the position that Chris and Drew will take.

However, the the real thing I think we have to battle with is the who is the not us?

Because whoever the us are the not us Christ died for and

There's a couple things here.

I Think he answers that in verse 1 my little children.

He's telling us who the us are.

So the not us are those who are not the children.

So I I don't believe this is the Jewish Gentile distinction because I think that that is

Already passed at that point.

Okay.

So I wrote in my notes here on this passage I say the key to this this text is the question of

who is being spoken of in the text.

There are two groups of people mentioned that Jesus is a propitiation for sin us and not us.

Thus the question is who is the us.

Many will claim that it refers to Jews and Gentiles.

However, by a time of first John there wasn't there was not a Jew Gentile issue anymore furthermore.

There was no reference in first John to the Jew Gentile distinction.

Therefore that does not seem to fit the context.

John was addressing the issue of the the Gnostics not Jews

Gentiles.

The context.

Move my cursor.

I lost the thing the context provides the answer in verse 1 the us is my little children.

This was John's way to speak of believers.

So if the us are an hour are referring to believers then the not Not

of us only must refer to non -believers.

So I am of the position I could say Christ died for all people.

Now I could say that as a human not being infinite in my understanding and knowledge.

In I can say Christ died for you to an unbeliever.

From this passage and say that his death was sufficient.

But it wasn't applied to them if they if they die without Christ in in its application.

It was not effective now.

In God's mind, did he know who he would die for?

Well, yeah because he knows everything.

So he knew who it was applied to and who it wasn't but and and this is a poor

example, but it's the example that I give.

If I go into a restaurant and I say I I share the gospel.

I just openly say I'm paying for everyone's meal.

I just want to share the gospel with you.

There's gonna be someone that's gonna be I'm paying my own meal even though I paid it and I know this because I actually did this in a restaurant

where we shared the gospel with someone and Then a friend of mine and I paid his meal.

It was paid.

He went up to the register and paid it a second time.

And he came to our table and he's like, I'm not letting anyone buy me something and I said.

I'm gonna show you.

Yeah, and I looked at him.

I said this is why you're going to hell because you won't accept a free gift.

You won't even accept it from God and so he paid it again he paid it himself.

Even though I was already covered.

Bad example, but it kind of works for me.

So I I believe I can say to an unbeliever Christ died for you.

Now that is where some people would say I'm not a Calvinist because they think that that's not a proper view of limited atonement.

But I would argue that it was a common understanding of a limited atonement even during the Puritan

times before John Owens books death of death and There's two books

that I have that I'm working my way through that seem to indicate that.

Both independently because I don't see him quoting each other so far at least but

Referencing that John Owens book death of death seems to be the turning point of on the definition of limited atonement.

So you guys can correct me where you think I'm wrong.

Go ahead Chris.

Okay.

Well of the three of us, I'm probably the least qualified to speak on this issue.

But here's what I understand is that Christ death would be sufficient

for the whole.

The issue is as you say, who is it applied to?

When he's writing my little children, I think the first thing is it who's who's the little children?

It's the audience to whom he's writing.

And so when you're saying my little children.

Not us, but also to the whole world.

You have a specific audience that's reading this and then there's Those who would be saved outside of that

audience in that time and place.

So I think it's pretty easy to say that as you you you pointed out.

Does the world those whole world mean whole world like every single person?

Well, in which case if you believe that you believe in universalism or Is it all throughout the whole

world all those who believe and I think consistently especially when we look at you know John, this is the same

fossil John who wrote in John 3 16 that you know, whosoever shall believe.

You know those that's the one that God saves.

So, how do we get to that?

It's because God in his word has said that he draws to himself those who will believe in

Christ.

He is known he is predestined them from eternity past they will be you know, sink, you know justified

sanctified glorified so that that application of

Salvation is to all those who would believe whom God predestined in eternity past.

Nothing happens outside of God's decree.

Why.

Because if it happened outside of God's decree God is not God.

So therefore everything that happens good bad Middle of the road, whatever.

The day you had today was according to God's sovereign will.

So if all things are according to his decree, then those who are saved are according to his decree.

Therefore when you Andrew or drew or anybody else goes out and preaches the gospel.

Anyone who responds in repentance and faith has done so at as part of God's predetermined plan of

salvation.

So could could it save everyone?

Yes.

Will it save everyone know because it only saves those who respond in repentance and faith and those who respond in repentance and

faith Throughout the whole world are those who God is predestined to salvation.

So I get where you're coming from ultimately I have to settle on the fact that.

The audience to whom he is writing.

That's my little children and that will be throughout history.

I understand that but he has a specific people in mind and then he says but not only us.

So not not only myself not only you who hear this but through the sins of the whole world.

So so let me.

So you're saying the not us.

So the us are the Specific people he's writing to and then not us are believers in the future

or throughout the world.

Who is he if he's writing.

Let's just say this was like Paul's letter to the Ephesians.

Paul had a specific audience.

So if he were to say something to that effect, he's referring to himself and that audience.

So to whomever John had written this epistle that immediate audience is the us

him and and and those who are in that audience that outside of that is.

Throughout the whole world.

Because not everybody at that time is going to be reading Paul's letter.

But you're going to have believers throughout the known world at that time as the gospel continues to go forth and.

And for the sake we may not get to hold the questions tonight.

But I'll say this, you know, I haven't heard that argument before.

I mean when I hear the Jewish Gentile distinction.

To me It sounded like someone that's trying to fit something into their can click to have a can.

I would agree and they're trying to fit it in but the way that

You you explained, you know, I think that could be a plausible Interpretation from

within the context.

I'd have to read through the rest of first John with that in mind and see whether that Would be consistent.

Never never heard it before so I haven't thought it through.

Well, like I said, I'm probably the least qualified to speak.

It doesn't matter who's look we all of us have the Holy Spirit so all of us are equally qualified to speak to it and.

And we all have to listen to one another and say okay.

Hey, you know, like I mean I'm saying I Have to.

I have to think through.

I hadn't heard that never thought of it that way.

Let me reread all of first John with that in mind and say Maybe my view is gonna change.

And that's how we should handle these things.

Yeah, Chris, that's a your interpretation of.

That is how I've always taken that and looked at that.

Andrew the way you opened your explanation is one that I would agree with, you know.

Everyone limits the atonement to some extent.

They either limit it in Its extent so who it covers or they limit it

by its efficacy, right?

Does it work?

And and so as long as there are people in hell the atonement is limited.

But I've always thought that limited atonement probably isn't the correct term.

It is more better Defined as definite atonement or indefinite atonement.

So does Christ actually save and You know,

I have to say yes, he does.

Now when we talk about the limitation of that.

Well, we also have to consider Romans 9 right the potter because the potter makes

vessels of clay for mercy and vessels for wrath.

But I Would agree with Andrew we can go to

people and say God died for you.

Why.

Because we don't know who the elect are.

And so every time we go out to preach the gospel or evangelize people or we're preaching at a conference

or in a church.

Particular redemption.

That's a good term, too.

Whenever we go out to proclaim the gospel We can have assurance by the

power of the Holy Spirit that someone somewhere is Going to be affected by it.

Mm -hmm.

And and that's sort of a thing, you know, you gotta remember the tulip was a response to the Arminians

and so their view was Was that someone could you know, the thing that really

saved them was their choice right.

And so It became the question knows.

You're the atonement is limited in that say it's not you're choosing but Christ, right?

That that becomes the issue which is really interesting with the the remonstrance itself

because those Those pastors that brought that that objection

They were they were excommunicated from the church as heretics because naturally when you take that

position It's not just about choice.

It leads to universalism and that's why they were.

Communicated.

Actually it leads to what we now have open theism.

That's more consistent, right?

Yeah, well, and the other thing to remember is that when you're talking about tulip that that five points was

Response to the five points right that they had presented.

So when you get her, I'm a look I'm not as good on the history of some of the others.

But I understand this part is that they had introduced the five points saying this is what you know How salvation works and stuff and then

when he brought together they responded through those.

With those five points and that's where we get to it.

But that doesn't that's not the in totality of what the Calvinist belief system about

Soteriology is it's simply the response to those points and so there's so much more when people start

going.

Well, you're limiting God.

It's like no you need to understand the entirety of it.

And so we we have to look at what?

The what they're responding to to see what was the meaning of limited atonement and and I'm just gonna Chris he says

we're not limiting God like someone said, oh you're putting God in a box.

I go really can God tell a lie.

Well, no not according to first to Titus 1 2 so did God put God in a box he can't do anything outside his nature but

Pastor Darren said this.

I think that the Puritan view is the proper view.

It's in an alignment with what Calvin also taught you know, and he said I Think

the earliest explanation limited atonement from my perspective.

So I and and and that's the thing is we'll see the thing is the Puritan view.

But which Puritans John Owens or before John Owens are after right?

So I I've kind of used the term Historical

Calvinist in the past, but I guess in these books.

I'm reading they're using the term Classical Calvinist and and so those would be the people that would hold to the view that

I hold to.

You know, but I think what we end up seeing is we all agree that when we look at this there's

clearly a Point where we say, okay, not everyone is

saved.

There's people in hell.

And even though we like I could say this it's sufficient for all I'm I'm gonna say it's effective for few.

So Look, you can get about just Calvinism in general is

a history of the theology of Calvinism, I forgot the author's name, but That's what it is

a history of the theology.

This is looking it up now because we know Chris and the thing is is it's a.

It looks intimidating.

But it's a really it's a really easy read and once you start before you even realize it you're halfway done

with the book.

Okay, and while Chris is looking up John says drew I subscribed to your channel.

God bless your ministry and.

And he asked earlier.

He said true question.

Why do you why your comments turned off on your videos on YouTube?

I had no clue they were turned off.

I Guess I'll be looking into that.

So so Darren.

Darren says.

The pre Owen view.

Agree with.

I agree with you.

The pre Owen view.

The response that they're in response to what that book the history and theology of Calvinism by Kurt Daniel for Daniel.

Yeah, you can find it right now on Amazon for $20

normally normally 50, but it's $20 and $3 .99 delivery.

So now this is kind of I see this comment that came up and I started and then read it so.

But it's a tad bit humbling but John John says this the more I listen to striving for eternity the more I

discover how little I know very interesting topics.

John you don't know how touching that is.

I don't know that it's deserved but.

Sometimes I get on here and when there's some guests I realize how little I know.

But.

We do have.

Some some things get through real quick.

So Melissa posted this earlier.

Andrew you need to make an AI voice of Chris as Captain America for us.

Where he where.

Oh.

Where he says church assemble.

Now, you know, I'm gonna start blocking some of you people.

I can I can do an AI.

That can make a picture of Chris as Captain America.

The question is Can I get an AI to animate?

Chris as Captain America saying.

Church assemble.

This is why I don't come on here very much.

You are not helping this situation.

KT says this.

Chris you should at least pray about working with Andrew.

So the part about that that Chris is really thinking about is the working with Andrew.

To the fiefdom and let me just clarify this.

Okay last year Really changed my perspective.

Okay, when I looked at retirement, which is now 246 days away. I Thought

I'm gonna do stuff like Andrew does.

I'm gonna do stuff like, you know, Daryl and Virgil.

I'm gonna do ministry stuff and then you are like My pre my previous

knuckleheaded governor praise God.

He's no longer in office.

Had come up with this grand idea to make sure state employees got the kovat job.

Which was oh, by the way, if you don't get the job We're gonna hit you with a massive kovat or a surcharge

on your insurance now.

They could only give it this much for me.

But they could tag me massively for every unjabbed family member and that's what they were going to do.

And it was going to double my insurance so I was looking at retirement early which forced me for the first

time at that time in 23 years to sit down and look at what my Costs would look

like and I realized what I wasn't gonna be bringing in.

I was gonna make a decent a fair amount of money, but I was gonna have to work so I could continue to provide for my family.

That changed my entire perspective.

Now I realized that's not what God's calling me to.

God has called me giving me this tiny little platform called voice of reason radio.

I get to write a blog once in a while.

I get to write it.

I do a podcast once a week and that's all I really need to do.

God has given me this much that that's it this much and that's what you think.

No.

No, that's what I know.

This is what I know.

I believe you have you have scripture for that.

Uh -huh.

I have prayed about this.

Consideration to this.

I've even been in conversation with my pastors about it.

I God God doesn't whisper.

Feeling is not so so, let's see.

Pastor Darren C says Edwards has some pretty good stuff on his exclamation limit atonement.

Which if memory serves me is in a line with what you said here Andrew.

And so but Darren also said this.

Chris just be thankful that they are wanting an AI of Captain America and not.

Hold on.

I know who Andrews call is gonna be either tonight or tomorrow and it's gonna be to James White.

Get on board with this.

Oh.

Ready to leave.

I'm gonna go away.

You guys are driving me crazy over here.

Oh My word Thanks to you.

Me look I Would blame yourself for that and so we want to explain this so

you'd never saw the movie Elf or buddy the elf whatever never tells never to watch it

and you and James James White gave you some abuse over that and.

But what was it?

He sent you an elf doll.

Yes. Thanks to my buddy Rich you you.

Said that James White out didn't he and then I was like throwing down a gauntlet and

I am going to not be outdone by James White.

So I need for not just to send you to full -size

Buddy the elf does which you use this target practice, which was cool but I employed

others to help out and You were getting daily buddy the elf stuff, so I

Go to the mailbox Until you conceded that I was not outdone

by James White.

Now if I have to really prove it I mean an AI version of you is buddy the elf singing a

song for that now that I Would like to see James beat that one.

If I do that

I will do it for this reason.

I Love my brother Chris, and I know it frustrates him so I probably won't do it.

I.

Just I just want as my my ringtone Chris Honnold

as buddy the elf going buddy the elf.

What's your favorite color?