When to walk away from the conversation

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Many people have questions about God and the Bible with so many different views about God and how to interpret the Bible Many people wonder where they can turn to get biblical answers

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Well have no fear turn to my friend Andrew Rappaport and his friends on apologetics live They can answer any question you have about God in the

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Bible. Check them out Thursday nights 8 to 10 o 'clock p .m New York time at apologetics live comm you can watch or join the discussion at apologetics live comm and challenge him with anything

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Please ask him you're really hard questions and tell him Ben sent you To answer your questions your host from striving for eternity ministries

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We are live apologetics live here to answer your most Challenging questions anything you have about God in the

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Bible as Ben said we can answer it I figured Ben should open the show right there because it is the anniversary the one -year anniversary of that Documentary what is a woman?

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Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah, and I heard Twitter did decided they I think I guess they said that Playing that film on Twitter would be wrong.

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And then Elon said no wait, I own the company. We're gonna play it so Yeah, there you go.

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So Welcome drew. How are you? I'm good. I'm good I'm very impressed that you were able to get

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Ben Shapiro To computerize his voice and do the opening of the show.

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Yeah. Yeah, you know people It's either that or I just know a I I may or may not have been programming, you know artificial intelligence since you know 90

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So, can we blame you when the robots take over Yeah, I don't think so because the the code

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I wrote was for the federal government and oh Yeah, they don't wait. Yeah, they they would never do anything.

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Yeah, they would never do anything wrong. Not at all. So Speaking of that I just I I listened to this thing

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It was by a guy named David. I think his name is David Martin or something But he he was talking about COVID and how this has been in the works since the 1960s and that the patent for the first What is it called protein spike?

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vaccine Was Pat was patented by Pfizer in 1990 and he has all the documentation for it

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Yeah, and people have looked at the background with Fauci and ever since the

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AIDS in the 80s And he's been doing research and that's so there's a there's a lot of things

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We could we could look if you start with the conclusion, you could find the things to line up, right? We always find that So Let's start with tonight's topic and we'll get to it

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But then we could do some things just so people know what are we good because as you know We get some people that get upset if we don't jump right to the top.

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Yeah, we got to get to it Yeah, because otherwise, you know so beating around the bush yeah, we we we do an open

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Q &A I mean anyone can come in and ask anything we could discuss anything we get to our topics

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But just because we don't answer what someone wants first thing out of the gate Okay, so we're gonna talk about this actually, let me let you do this because this was your topic idea.

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So Why did you come up with this topic that we're gonna talk about a little bit?

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Yeah, so the topic that I came on Well, that'll do it for tonight's show

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Thank you for tuning in but the topic for tonight is Knowing when to walk away from the conversation, you know

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And we talk a lot on here about how to have conversation how to listen to conversation how to how to ask good questions but I don't think we've ever talked about when the time is to walk away from a conversation and This came about because of someone that you and I had been emailing

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Pretty Why you why you mention who? Yeah, Ben Zion So anyone who's watched the last what like three shows?

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Yeah about three you'll know who he is, but He wanted my email.

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He was talking to you and he wanted my email And so I said, yeah, go ahead give it to him and because because for the record, you know

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And you know this but maybe the audience doesn't I never give out people's contact information without permission

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So if you ask me for you asked me for Drew's contact, I'm not giving it without permission

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I never do that So if any of the so that's Jason if anybody ever tells you that I gave

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Them your contact information and I didn't call you first or I didn't already know

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I had permission. It wasn't me, right? Right, but you know, so so I sent him an email that was a reply to what he had sent you and Then he emailed me back and then

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I emailed him again, and it was just He didn't listen to what

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I had to say, even though in the email I clearly laid it out I put text right in front of him and he just didn't want to hear it.

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He wanted to continue to push his narrative and He basically

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I told him I said look I can't go any further with this because you're arguing in bad faith and I told him he was arguing in bad faith because I put a passage before him and I laid out the

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Context of that passage and he tried to refute the context of that passage. Even when I put it in the text.

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I Just took the scripture and I put the scripture in the email and He didn't want to see it.

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And so I said, okay. Well you're arguing in bad faith I can't you know, I'm praying that the

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Lord will draw him to yourself and I pray that you come to Saving faith in Christ Jesus and repentance of your sin.

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But as far as this conversation, I can't go any further and so After that, I thought about it and I said well, let me reach out to Andrew and say let's do a cut

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Let's do a show about when to walk away from a conversation. Yeah, and I think that that's good

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I mean look you in this was partially you had asked me you knew that I was in Queens, New York Which is where he was on Saturday.

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You asked if I was gonna go over to his place. I was 15 minutes from His his well the house.

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He grew up in and the apartment. He now lives in oops He never gave me that.

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Yeah, so Ben if you're watching, yeah, I know where you live. I knew where you grow up It only took me a couple seconds to figure that out

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But I was 15 minutes away from him and and you were like so you're gonna go over there Okay, well

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I was with family right but as I said to you I just didn't think it was gonna be

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Profitable in any way I could be wrong But I didn't think it'd be profitable in any way because I just was afraid that You know, we we'd end up in a situation where it's he like we did on the heard on the show when he came in He wasn't listening, right?

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Just wants to you know point fingers and things like that now and we'll deal with My email response to him too and things like that because I wanted to bring that up So so that's what we want to talk about a little bit tonight

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We're gonna do open Q &A. So we're gonna get to your questions anyone who wants to come in just go to apologetics live .com

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You can scroll down the see the duck icon. That is where to To join us

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I will encourage everyone if everyone who's who's watching live now Please share it those who are listening later on podcast or watching later on Whichever platform you're watching.

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Please share it. We do appreciate that It helps others to know about it And then really the thing is it helps people to know that they have a place they can get in questions answered

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I get questions during the week and sometimes we bring them in here. I'm gonna bring a couple in pride tonight

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Unless people who are here come in and ask questions That's the best way to get your question answered by the way is to go to apologetics live .com

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Join us when we're live. That is the best way but Another good way to get a question answered if you're watching on YouTube While we're live is to do a super chat

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And if you do that, we will we'll respond to that because well you paid to get that question Oh Will or comments or we'll read it but but yeah

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I mean we're we'll we then if we don't have questions go I go to those that have been emailed in to me to answer

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And that's where the whole thing with Ben was it was an email and it was detailed And I just knew that I wasn't gonna it was gonna be very hard to give him a detailed

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Written response because it's just I'm better in in this sort of media. He's he's not he prefers writing

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Is at least what he said, but I thought he explained himself. Well, I Don't agree with his but I thought he explained himself.

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Well, but so This this is an interesting question I'll say this to you drew with the question.

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When when do you walk away from a conversation? I When I was younger when

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I was I see well, that's like 20 24 25 when

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I became a deacon in the church, and I remember being like the first year. I was a deacon first or second year and We were in a leadership meeting and we got into a discussion.

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That was this topic because there was just someone who had been counseled over and over and over and over and I remember one of the elders and I have in this discussion and it was like Wendy Wendy to say enough is enough and I was like never

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I Literally, I was like you you owe as long as there's a chance. You keep you keep trying you keep trying

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And I still remember he looks at me. It just goes. Ah You're so young and Will it to be young again?

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Yes, and You know in a sense I I still remember the one time where I I was counseling a couple or a guy in a marriage and I remember when

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I decided I Need to walk away This is I what two years.

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I've been working with this guy. He would call me weekly to daily and I started to realize after a long period of time.

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I'm slow on the learning here He just wasn't taking any advice that I was giving

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And so I gave him a homework assignment and I found this to be actually a profitable homework assignment I've done it with others and it was helpful

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He just he couldn't get along with his wife Now granted I admit These two people

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Should never have got married. They got married. They weren't saved Not sure that she ever was

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But When I asked them why they got married and I'm not kidding. This was the response he responded with well

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She used to be good -looking, but now she's fat and ugly Wow her response was

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I wanted tall children and I'm just like Wow, okay.

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So so my homework assignment form was I want you to come up with 25 things that you

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Like or at least used to like about your bride about your wife I Said and don't don't call me for help until you come up with a list of 25

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And so he calls me up a week later Um Can we talk and I said do you have that list?

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He's like well, I got three things three I said it doesn't have to be what you like about her now when you were dating her

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Come up with 25 thing now had he come up with 25 I was gonna have him come up with another 25 another 25 and another 25 until he starts appreciating his wife

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Okay, because I've done that with others and it worked well But he couldn't do it and I just decided that was the time

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I said, you know what if you can't come up with 25 things then

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I don't see any reason in continuing until you do your homework and That so that was like the the the end of toward the end of the week

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Sunday we go to church and I think it was like that Monday. I got a call from a friend of mine Hey, you know

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So and so wanted me to help counsel him. He called me up You know, he talked to me at church and wants me to call this week any advice

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And I said, yeah, tell him to write a list of 25 things Or you won't talk to him and I realized what he immediately did was just say well if you don't give me what

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I want To hear I'm just gonna move on to someone else Really would it for him?

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It was just he wanted to vent About his wife and feel okay about it. Mm -hmm, and I realized

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I Was wasting my time with him I I couldn't sooner talk to the wall and get a better response because That's just what ends up happening.

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It's itch There's a point where you realize you're wasting time, right? And so really

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I think that's the question we're asking, right? How do we identify when we're wasting time? Yes, and that's really hard because guess what there's times

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I think where You don't know what the Lord is doing in someone's life, right? I always tell this is an example

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I still remember a friend of mine. He was at a gas station witnessing now Okay, let me explain to folks that don't live in the communist country of New Jersey You're not allowed to pump your own gas

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So you you actually have a guy there at all hours of the night that hats to pump your gas because wow

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They still do that. It's the only state in the Union. We're nowhere in the state. Can you pump your own gas now

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Ergun you can You you there are areas where you can pump your own gas not in the major cities, but it's based on population

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But yeah, New Jersey's the only one still and so this he's he was and so we used to go 11 o 'clock at night to get gas

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Because there's no one in the gas stations, but the gas attendants you had someone to evangelize. Yeah That literally was what we used to do.

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And so he's out at a gas station he's he's talking to this guy sharing the gospel and He's he sensed that this guy might have been getting convicted but he wasn't sure but the guy was getting angry and literally, the guy just pulls back with a fist and just swings it at my friend and my my friend just ducked down and the guy did a 360 swung completely around Fell back against the pole slid down Put both his hands into his face and started crying.

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Mm -hmm and My friend had said he said the last act before this guy got saved was an act of violence against the messenger and If he just walked away

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When he thought this guy was getting angry Mm -hmm, and he wasn't sure if it was conviction or anger, but he had he walked away thinking it was anger

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He wouldn't have seen that like right and how do you got knocked out in contrast he might But we just don't know we don't know what the

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Lord is doing right and that's important because We are called to evangelize right and I tell whenever I'm teaching anyone about apologetics

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I tell them you're called to be three things. You're called to be a theologian So you must know theology because if you are to have a relationship with the

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Lord, you must know about the Lord So you are to be a theologian? Second you are to be an evangelist

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The Great Commission is that we go out and we we evangelize we give the gospel to a lost and dying world

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And the third you are called to be an apologist So you must know what you believe why you believe it and be able to communicate that to others now in that is going to come discussion

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Sometimes it's heated discussion. Sometimes it's not but We always want to be able to leave the door open if Say we're in a heated discussion and maybe we just need to step back a little bit.

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We want to make sure That we leave the door open for that person if conviction hits they can come back to us right, they can run back because you know,

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I Saw a I saw a comment up here. I should have started but I didn't it was about by About cage -stage

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Calvinist. Okay. Yeah, I saw that. I think that was D but I'll There it is.

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There we go There we go. See it's hard for those cage -stage Calvinist, you know, because the cage -stage

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Calvinist they just love to argue well the cage -stage

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Calvinist if you're not if you Forget the grace portion of the doctrines of grace

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Whoever you're talking to When that next person comes along to give the gospel to water the seed guess who they're not coming back to They're not coming back to you

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Because you just wanted to argue and and bludgeon them over the head with your with your theological knowledge so how we approach them we want to be gracious, but We also if we see where it's going in that direction where we're just wasting time we want to step back, but we also want to make sure we leave the door open so that If the

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Lord like you said if the Lord is doing something We want to be able to be there for when they come back to us and Be able to give them that be able to pray with them be able to cry with them if we need to cry with them but Sometimes it's not the same.

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It's not that Sometimes we just need to say Okay All you want to do is you would you just want to argue you're not listening to anything that I have to say

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You just want to argue to try to prove your point. This is this is not going anywhere and So we need to we just need to cut it here

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But but how we do that is important. We want to make sure that we're gracious when we do that We don't want to respond in anger.

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We want to make sure we don't respond in frustration We want to make sure that we're gracious and we are displaying the character of Christ When we back off from that conversation correct and And it is hard to tell so let me let me tell a story

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I think I've told this here before but a friend of mine Chad Williams and I were out evangelizing at Huntington Beach and He was you know, he's up on a box and he did something that was very for him very different just not what

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I'm was used to seeing a guy came up very arrogant very just Not seeming like he really cared to listen to what

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Chad was saying And Chad just turned and I'm saying this is out of character for him

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But he just turned to the guy and goes no gospel for you today I was gonna give you the gospel, but no gospel for you and the guy walked away

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Wow Chad gets done preaching he gets down and we're packing up and I'm like I go

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Chad What was up with that? He goes, I don't know He goes I just felt like sharing the gospel with the guy with as arrogant as he was being

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It felt like I was throwing my pearls before swine we're gonna get to that passage in a bit and Just as he's telling me this the same guy walks over to us and He walks up to Chad And says why won't you give me the gospel?

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Mmm, and Chad goes now I will And as we walked back to his his parents place

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We're sitting there talking about it and it was like he Chad just goes law to the proud

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Grace to the humble. Yeah, that's really what ended up happening I mean he said because the guy's total demeanor changed when he came back and and Chad felt well now now you're ready to hear the gospel and and the two of them had a great conversation

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Now am I saying that you should Tell someone no no gospel for you.

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No, I'm not saying that and and and I'm not saying that the Lord spoke to Chad I'm not trying to make that claim either but it was just Chad just had for whatever reason he felt it was it wouldn't be profitable to To do and he had the reaction he had it was out of character for him, but God used that Yep, so yeah, you know while you were talking

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I was thinking of a time where I had Mormons come to my house and It was almost they're the ones that ended the conversation.

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I was trying to keep them there, but So I'm gonna I'm gonna give you a little trick.

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Okay that dr. Silvestro taught me when you get a

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Jehovah Witness or Mormon or someone like that where you know that once they They figured out that you know what you're talking about and they want to bolt from the conversation the first question he likes to ask them is

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How much time do you have? Well, they had already been there for about two and a half hours. Oh, okay yeah, because they'll usually say like an hour and then after ten minutes they tell you they got to go because they have an

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Appointment and and you know ever since that you just go wait. I thought you said you have an hour. Did you lie to me?

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Or are you lying now? So they showed up and I was at work and my dad was living with us at the time

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He said we'll come back around this time. My son will be here They came back when

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I was there and I brought him in the house and we sat in the living room and I let them Go through their whole presentation, right?

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And then I just start talking to him and we're talking. Let me stop you there Mm -hmm, not to interrupt your story, but I do mean to interrupt your story for purpose

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So why do that right? You're you're you're showing respect to them. Yeah to let them

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Explain everything they want to explain Those two things one it shows respect So now you can appeal to them say hey,

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I let you speak uninterrupted. I did that with Ben when he was on The other thing it does it lets you

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Listen to what they say they believe rather than just jumping in going. Well, this is what you believe, right?

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You're right hear them out. Yeah, exactly That's exactly right I want I want to show them that I'm listening to them and So so I let them

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I let them talk and then we start I start asking them questions I start getting into the

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Bible and We again we're going for about two two and a half hours and you know for our listeners

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Mormons always travel in twos and It's in typically you have one one guy that's there that's on his second year of mission and then another guy that's on his first Year of mission so that they rotate so there's always an experienced guy and a guy that's being trained and so The guy that was being trained

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You could see he was starting to swell up with tears And he looked at me and he said so what you're telling me right now is that if I die tonight

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I will spend eternity in hell and he said this through tears and I looked at him and I said yes, and I don't want that for you

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I want you to come to know the saving grace of Lord Jesus Christ and You could see he just it was weighing on him and then the experienced guy said got up and said, okay we're done here and they jet it out of the house and I but I Tried to track that guy down because they lived on my delivery route and I tried to track him down to say

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Hey, if you need to you come back to my house whenever and talk But I couldn't find him

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Yeah They were never outside when they saw my FedEx truck because I told him I work for FedEx and I've delivered to the house

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You live in and so they did what most people do when drove witnesses come to their house They they saw your

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FedEx truck and they hid as if they're not home. Okay So, let me let me get some things that were coming up that we have here

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John asked what is a cage Yeah cage stage

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Calvinist, sorry I'm learning and so he then looked it up and he said I looked it up a cage stage

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Calvinist is someone who has learned to loop the five points of Calvinism and goes on a right a

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Relate relational rampage, right? I don't know if that was what he meant But but but really what is when you get someone who?

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Gets so excited about something in this case Calvinism are just blasting everyone with it That's that's the idea cage stage and that is more than just Calvinist by the way you have cage stage

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You know Continuationist where they think they they speak in tongues and they start everyone's got to do it and things like so you have you have

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Those as well and and you even I had to have ice I sent this in a comment on Twitter to Owen Strand Because he was responding to someone and he said why is it all every post mill thinks that they have to always talk about post

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Post -millennial ism and I said it's cage stage post millennial is Yeah.

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All right. So that Chris is asking this and this is a three -parter So I'll just he says why do you guys as a ministry accept ads from?

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YouTube that are antithetical to the Christian message is

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It just money We we have no control over the ads that they that they put up The only way we could do the super chats is to have the ads.

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So There is a way I believe to mark the ad to say that you don't like it

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But yeah, I mean if you expect Google or you know to be doing something that is

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Gonna be in in line with the Christian message No They would never do it to I'm sure to a

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Muslim channel, but So, yeah All right. So So yeah, so it's not just about money we didn't we didn't you monetize for Decades I mean we we we haven't you know

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It wasn't that big of a deal but you know the reality is is that we are looking for ways to to get support and one way is by you know watching you know watching the show and so It's it's just one way that we can try to monetize because it does you know

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I know this is it's hard for people to conceive this but ministry actually costs money. It's not just You know,

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I know everyone's oh, yeah We used to get pill or call them, you know Or email a ministry and say that we should just live by faith

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You try that at your job go into your boss's office and say hey, I want to live by faith You don't have to give me a paycheck if you feel like it good

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I'm gonna say that's God's blessing. And if you don't I'm just gonna live by faith There's only one person in history.

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I know that did that and that was George Muller Actually story But you see the thing if you read the autobiography of George Muller and you read the introduction

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He says there wasn't anything special about his faith Right. He was trying to show that everybody can have great faith if you just trust the

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Lord And so people think there's something unusual about him and that's not the case So real quick haps

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Hap says he has a question if we're watching on Facebook. So yes, we are watching on Facebook So so joint haps just join us.

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Yeah, there you go. Yeah, just even better Gotta set up yeah, and so Let me see because I saw that Chris Hudson he said

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Okay. Thank you for a response Andrew. I just follow a lot of ministries that don't use ads.

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So I just want to ask Yeah, I mean Yeah, I mean I We used to have ads when we did the live shows we did the live academies because we use a platform where they did that and Man, did they they used to I mean they were had pretty vile commercials, so So, yeah,

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I think we have a a guest backstage that may yeah we do

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So you won't bring in Melissa I will all right. Hey, Melissa, how are you?

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Hearing mm -hmm. Okay. No, I don't hear anything Anyway, I'll set up with what

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I have to ask a few months ago my my niece's daughter

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Died, I think they believe she died. I'm not totally sure if it's true of it. She died from fentanyl

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Overdose, okay. I think she took a pill and this was who again. It's my niece's daughter.

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This is daughter okay, her name is Trinity and she she died so suddenly and I I was wondering how

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Should I agree because I just like I was no thinking like God's good

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But it's just like I just it just hit me all hard with because I don't know for sure. She's a

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Christian So it hit me really hard. So I was like, how should we what should we do?

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Like how should we mourn when someone we know it's not Christian and how should we deal with that?

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well, I mean one thing that we have to realize is obviously God is sovereign mm -hmm and They have enough knowledge to know

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God exists Every human being does and so in those last moments of life even

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They may have repented they Would know enough Maybe through hearing the gospel or knowing that there may be as someone is

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Overdosing and they're realizing it. They're realizing the mistake and they plead to God that could happen

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We don't know We're gonna trust God's sovereignty. And as it says in end of Revelation God's gonna wipe away every tear.

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Yeah, so Even though we think this side of heaven. It's gonna be in pot

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I mean look I have no reason to believe that my mother is in heaven As far as I know she remained

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Jewish up until her death, you know not Being a

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Christian So, yeah, and people think it's so vile of me to how could you say that about your mother?

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Because it's true It's not about what I like or not like my

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Wishful thinking doesn't make it true or not. Yeah, I have to accept that God knows better than me what he's doing but on that day

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When I'm before him, I will understand perfectly And then

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I will know even though this is my mother and now my stepmother who's who is entered eternity either way

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I'm gonna realize that God knows better what he's doing and I'm just gonna have to you know,

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I will then have a better view of things. Yeah, and So I think that's the reality so we we have to we just trust the

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Lord trust a good and we're gonna we're gonna Hope that God Redeemed her in the last moments but if not, we're gonna have a right understanding of how whole how infinitely

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Holy God is and how sinful we are and We're gonna understand that that was the right thing

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I mean if you think back a couple weeks ago when we had been Zion on He couldn't believe how could how dare

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I say that he is as wicked Comparatively to Hitler.

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Yeah, he went nuts But when you compare how infinitely

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Holy God is Then yeah, all of us are not far from Hitler, right?

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Yeah We're gonna have a real understanding of that I believe when we stand before God so You know, just trust

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God. He knows he knows better than you and I what what he's doing Well offhand,

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I mean I think that you know, I mentioned the

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Revelation 20, right? Every tear but I think that when you you look at Really all of the passages of how

34:36

Holy God is. I mean, I think of Isaiah 6 You know when Isaiah sees the glory of God The one thing he sees about him in the the wonderful people, you know

34:49

The chosen race all he seizes their sinfulness and his own sinfulness. Yeah They say something like he's undone like he's undone he's undone people and and that's that's what happens when you see how

35:02

Really who God is you don't see we won't see ourselves as good I I Didn't hear you.

35:24

Sorry. Oh, I like I like people check out truth be told radio. I said I like to plug myself

35:29

Yeah, I know you do Doing for a long time. Yeah Thank you

35:38

In doing that thank you for listening and hope your answers get Answered your question.

35:44

You can answer and right now. All right. Thanks, Melissa All right Now we do did have a couple others here that I saw

35:54

Before we get back to you because I would didn't want to get to To Ben's thing, but it wants to stay a little bit on in in context here.

36:01

I saw one John asked here it is Is drew or Andrew Calvinists Yes, I Know you don't put the label on your story

36:14

But I have no problem putting it on myself because I know what it means But yeah, I don't have problem with people when people call me

36:21

Calvinist. I do prefer reformed because a lot of people say Calvinism and it just focuses on predestination and election and Calvin was very vast in his theological

36:35

Explanations in many topics, but we don't just follow Calvin We are reformed theology begins with sola scriptura.

36:43

And so that's our foundation. That's where we start and Truth be told I have

36:49

Calvin's Institutes I've barely read them because because I can go beyond Calvin.

36:55

Yeah That's the argument Yeah, and and you're right

37:00

I don't I don't go by the label Calvinist because I don't know what someone else means by it and so A label is only good if we're using the same definition.

37:12

So if someone asked me, are you a Calvinist? I will say what do you mean by that? Okay, because if they have the same definition as me,

37:21

I'm gonna be a Calvinist. I have some I still remember the first time I think as a mat slicks radio program and it's one of the questions

37:30

He asked are you know, so you a Calvinist and I said well I've had people tell me that I'm a heretic because I'm a

37:35

Calvinist I've had people that tell me I'm a heretic is I'm not a Calvinist The only thing everyone agrees on is I'm a heretic

37:43

Okay, so it depends on the definition both sides call me a heretic so and we'll probably get to there was a question haps asked and That may that may then expose where some people think

37:55

I'm a heretic it, you know one of the one way or another but So yeah, so so I want to let's get to you you kind of explained what you said

38:05

Okay enough's enough with Ben. Yeah, and after that I Threw out one more email to Ben Zion Because he asked

38:20

Right, and I just said, okay, this would be my final my final thing if he doesn't answer it you know because he was

38:28

I asked the question and He went off answering something else and I'm like, hey you know see that's weird because I asked it

38:36

I tried to shift the conversation and get him to To answer something else and he didn't want to go to it.

38:42

Yeah So here's here's what I end up saying I said Ben You said quote no unquote

38:50

Jewish person would in time interpret Alma as virgin Therefore if you if I could produce just one rabbi

38:59

Then your whole argument is wrong and you must admit you're being dishonest in the in continuing this argument

39:06

Right now do you follow what I'm saying? He said no no Jewish person would do this

39:12

All I need is one but if I have one that's a rabbi like because he didn't say no rabbi He said no

39:18

Jewish person. So if I have one Jewish person then

39:23

I Have it. Well, we gave one on the show and that was Matthew And well, actually we gave

39:30

I he claimed Matthew I claimed whoever translated the Hebrew into Greek for Isaiah in the

39:37

Septuagint So I just said in Jewish tradition some commentators and scholars interpret the

39:42

Hebrew word Alma in seven in Isaiah 714 as referring to a young woman Who is also a virgin?

39:52

Right because that was the argument I was making she happens to also be a virgin One notable commentator who had this view and I'm not gonna do a good job on the name but rabbi

40:06

Shlomo Yaksik also known as Rashi. He was from 1040 to 1105

40:13

Rashi an Influential medieval commentator translated

40:18

Alma as virgin in his commentary on that verse his that his interpretation had a significant impact on subs on Substance a substantial

40:30

Jewish thought and continues to be referred to those who support Who support the understanding of Alma as virgin in this context?

40:39

And so it's interesting because if you go out to and I was looking this up as you were talking just because I was curious

40:48

Because this kind of makes some of my point that I had with him is One of the things

40:54

I had said is how does he know that? The That we are not having a response to Christianity and so it was interesting because when

41:08

I went out to To the what there's a website the

41:17

Jewish virtual library and You could look up, you know some of his stuff and it looks like they they translated as young woman

41:26

Which the earlier translations had is virgin. So it's kind of interesting But you know, so I put that out there for him to respond

41:35

So now we'll see if he does he hasn't as of when did I send that out? May 29th and now it is

41:41

June 1st. So we can give him time. He could be busy right, so But what am

41:49

I doing with that? I'm saying? Okay. I only need to produce one, but if it's a rabbi Okay Okay, so not only that a rabbi from a medieval period.

42:00

Yeah Because my argument is the Septuagint was done before the time of Christ. So they had no reason to Translate it as virgin

42:11

Before Christ if that wasn't a viable translation of the word right, so You know and and we already discussed the last time he had already conceded that a young woman a maiden

42:27

What makes her maiden is that she's not married Assuming she was a well virgin.

42:33

So wouldn't how would that make him a Jewish person that says Alma can mean virgin Maybe maybe he's not maybe we'll have it the no true

42:42

Scotsman fallacy and he'll say well no true Jewish person would say Who knows?

42:48

We'll see. We'll see if he responds So, okay

42:54

KT gave this for you Melissa this is toward you and She probably had an earlier comment that I missed.

43:03

Okay here here it is So I'll put this one up first KT said It's a reminder that you could die anytime and people need to consider that their relationship with God focus on the living person

43:15

God sees in the long view now, I'll say this to that I was gonna say to Melissa is you one thing that I remember asking

43:22

Ray comfort when my mother -in -law You know attempted to take her life just You know and I'm like, how do

43:31

I how do I deal with this and and Ray, you know Ray had said You know if you're because at that point, you know,

43:39

I didn't know what's happening and And Ray was like look if your mother was to die Know that the message she'd have for people if she could come back now

43:49

Now my mother -in -law is a believer, but it would be that you come to know Christ today that there's a real hell and real heaven but and that's the thing we can always say is if the if you're

44:00

Your niece's daughter was to come back the message she would have for you is to repent

44:06

There's I want to comment on this comment by KT and Jesus real quick, it's a reminder you can die at any time now

44:14

If you think back to 9 -eleven After the Sunday after 9 -eleven

44:20

John MacArthur preached a message and He says of that time that the church was packed

44:28

People were flooding into the church and what was the message? The message he gave was that you can die at any time those people who died in the in the in the towers

44:40

They didn't think that was gonna be their last day. Yeah, it was I think that was the most preached message

44:49

Yeah, so so KT said I mean he is working he is sovereign has sovereign purposes

44:57

The trusting God in trying times Series is good.

45:02

That's from Don green. Give your niece that book perhaps And then I think she corrected it here.

45:08

She said You you might get you neat. Yeah. No, she just said it again, but didn't tagged

45:14

Melissa. So so yeah, so I see

45:20

Eric. I don't see him on camera But we'll see if I may actually know who this is, but we'll bring him in He's got something covering the camera is what it is you hear us.

45:32

Oh, there we go Hey Yeah for good reason

45:48

I mean people might be People might know how to hack into your computer and Yeah, so welcome so Eric is well you your website's not live yet, right

46:06

Yeah, well we could we can plug it but people not much there yet It's a journey, it's not what

46:15

I was I enjoy sprinting sometimes and it's not gonna be a sprint So History 777 .org

46:24

is your website still a work -in -progress folks But you could check it out. And so you're you're suffering for Christ there in the

46:32

Dominic Republic. Yeah Looking to catch some wind I believe right?

46:38

Yes For four amazing days and today was bad and the rest of the this is the struggle the rest of the

46:46

Ten days. I'm here is supposed to be terrible if you look at the forecast, so we're I was thinking about flying home tomorrow

46:58

Like I was praying and I said Lord Move move my wife move

47:03

Robin if you want me to stay and I my buddies Dominican friend who trained him kite -surfing

47:10

Has a very unusual concept of God compared to us. So I'm like, wow, this could be an opportunity

47:16

So there you go. Yeah, I was gonna say, you know instead of kite -surfing. Maybe you should do something like witness

47:26

Okay, so let's let's let's give a little history Drew you'll get a kick out of this

47:33

Dr. Silvestro myself, we go out to a local college. It would it be fair to say we dragged you

47:40

Eric And said if I waste this opportunity it was apologetics week week -long conference and I said if I waste this

47:55

That alone is sin. And I said I've got to go with you to And here

48:00

I'm Okay We're sitting there drew that it was hysterical because we're sitting there and I'm literally just watching

48:12

Anthony as he's up on this little ledge and and he's sharing the gospel no crowd and I could see where he's looking and I turned to Eric and I see now

48:22

I said see now Anthony is speaking to that one girl over there You know and I described the shirt she was wearing yes, and it was almost as if on Cue I said now what?

48:34

Anthony is trying to get her to respond and once she responds and I literally was like I said once she responds she gets up And he goes and he told me one of two things she would do and within 30 seconds she got up and started

48:57

She got up there be a crowd It was it was

49:17

You know, and it was it was for for your first time out. That was a little stressful Yeah, but it wasn't your last time out.

49:24

So that was good It's been really really good

49:30

I'm due to go back out though It's been I've been dormant for three months and two months three months school schools out

49:36

So there's not gonna be anyone there. You're gonna have to wait. Yeah, so so you have any questions for us tonight? man,

49:42

I I just Realized I you were on and I left my buddies out on the balcony and I just ran in and plugged in So no,

49:50

I I'm just jumping in now I thought

49:58

I'd jump in so no, I'm sorry No, that's fine, well, we

50:03

I hope you enjoy the kite surfing but at the same time, you know practice what you've been learning with Mike Riddle and and Get out here in the gospel and Apollo doing some apologetics.

50:13

Yeah, so For folks know you Eric goes to college campuses and tries to get spur conversations just with the students

50:21

Just one -on -one conversations and using apologetics He's got a background in science so that makes it a lot of more interesting

50:30

Shall we say when you have people that claim? Well, I know science. You can know science and be a Christian Science I watch the news.

50:38

Yeah That was gonna be one of the topics I did have because someone asked about the fact that the

50:46

There was I guess an article and I didn't get a chance to get to it in time But I guess there was an article that the

50:52

CDC the people who were supposed to be during kovat deciding on vaccinations and and how to prevent spread kept getting together for conferences and it turns out that the more the people who went even vaccinated people that went to more of these conferences with the

51:08

CDC got kovat and So someone asked or can we now say that the

51:14

CDC? conferences about vaccines are super spreaders Full article to see what they were actually

51:23

And and now the WHO has just I don't know if you guys saw that but they have Recognized that this vaccine is causing

51:32

MS That the spike protein the t4 cells is starting to target and kill the myelin sheaths on the nervous system

51:40

I'm a higher Incidence of MS is occurring in the population and vaccinated people and it was right on the

51:47

WHO website now I didn't vet that out. But but it came from that guy over in England.

51:52

What's his name? John? He does those He's a nurse and he's brilliant.

51:58

The guy is it puts all the science out. Okay, he's got like 3 million viewers Yeah, yeah and everybody was like I was an anti -vaxxer

52:15

Like whatever the medical community has lost its mind But yeah, whatever.

52:21

Okay, so KKT said ooh. Oh kite surfing. I wasn't listening.

52:27

Well You want to explain what kite surfing is to those who may not be aware of this very dangerous work

52:36

And you have a harness around your waist and a nice long set of lines that go up to a big old kite that You fly above your head and it drags you across the water and you can jump in the air and that's just the greatest thing

52:52

Next to Jesus and my wife When you said greatest thing and you pause

52:58

I was like, oh you're about to get yourself in trouble because you said Robin is right All right, well if you think

53:08

I'll put you backstage if you think of a question you want to ask Just there's a private chat and you could do that there

53:16

All right, okay so drew Melissa's asking what's

53:22

Drew's last name and his shows called What again? What's that show you do?

53:29

it's it's a Chris Hough's show that I pretend to be on I think that's

53:36

I think yeah, I mean I was thinking that's what we should change the name to Because that's about what it is.

53:44

But yeah, Chris on Holt's Beat us to it. My last name is Bonita and the show is matter of theology

53:52

There you go. And I also started there's a YouTube page for matter of theology and I've got two videos on there now

54:00

So I plan on trying to do some more video content as well as more podcasting content

54:08

Okay. So one of the things I was gonna start with Was a tweet that I got and I had posted, you know for folks who may not be aware.

54:20

We're not big fans of the TV series or movie series, whatever you call it the chosen and they had a

54:35

Basically they there was a You know support for the

54:41

LGBT they had a flag You know the the gay pride flag on set and people saw it now, you know

54:49

Daily Wire post did an article about it and the CEO of Daily Wire said it sickened him or whatever

54:56

He was sad that they Did that article? The reality is

55:05

You know, I shared it and I posted and I basically, you know had a you know

55:11

The point that you know, see I don't think it's the gay pride flag Because they're not about gays.

55:18

They're they're about all way more than that and actually They you know, the transgenders don't like the gays because the gays are going.

55:26

Hey, this is just we don't want all this other craziness So not everyone's fully on board it's really the

55:34

Anti -christian flag right because that's their agenda Okay, and so I made a comment about this and so somebody shared a tweet

55:46

That they shared with me and when they shared it with me, they said take that Andrew Okay Andrew goes

55:56

Challenge accepted. Yeah, actually no, I didn't even bother responding but But there's something that was said that I found interesting what he shared.

56:06

So The the thing that he shared with me is it's it's a guy that says the the people telling you to boycott the

56:16

Chosen or a Chick -fil -a are Probably not Christians. They are cultural conservatives looking for something to be upset about Boycotting a

56:27

TV series about the life of Christ because there are sinners involved in the production is a clear sign

56:33

You don't understand the gospel at all okay, so you want me to take an

56:41

Anti support for an anti -christian agenda That's so I'm not really a

56:49

Christian if I don't support an anti -christian agenda Right apparently

56:57

Um, you know Christians are supposed to be tolerant of all things Andrew Yeah You know, there's a scripture verse that talks about that Yeah, it's it's

57:07

Matthew chapter 7. I said we'd get there It's a good segue Yeah, we go

57:14

You've been doing this for a while haven't you? Yeah, I have Do not judge So that you will not be judged

57:21

I mean that is the passage I mean every non -believer knows for Christians, right Wonder what could that mean though?

57:30

Do you think true? It's I don't know is this possible Do you think if I read the next verse I might understand what it means not to judge, you know

57:40

I think I I do think there are more more verses that follow One let's look at that For in the way you judge you will be judged and By your standard of measure it will be measured to you

57:58

Oh, it almost sounds like he's not saying you shouldn't judge It sounds like he's giving a warning that if you're gonna judge people wrongly, you're gonna be judged by that same

58:09

Standard, right, right. In fact, he goes on to say, you know, it's amazing when we just keep reading the next verse

58:16

Why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye and do not notice the log that's in your own or how could your brother say let me take the speck out of your eye and Behold the log is in your own eye you

58:35

Hypocrite this gets better and better Yeah First take out the log out of your own eye and then you'll be able to see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye and Then this next verse kind of interesting the context do not give what is holy to dogs and do not throw your pearls before swine or they will trample them under their feet and turn and Tear you to pieces, you know,

59:05

I Could be wrong here. That sounds almost like a judgment.

59:15

It does So, I mean wait, this is the words of Jesus we know that because they're in red letters

59:24

They're the most important right? Yeah, they are and so Do you think it could

59:31

Jesus sinned? No, no, so if Jesus said this as a judgment he couldn't have judged people and It'd be a sin to judge, right?

59:51

You know a bunch of a bunch of liberal scholars got together I think in late 80s,

59:57

I think me early 90s and it was It was called the

01:00:02

Jesus seminar Jesus seminar Yeah, the gist seminar yeah, and they got together and they each had a black ball a pink ball and a red ball and they took all of the red letterings in the

01:00:17

Bible and decided whether Jesus actually said those things a Black ball meant

01:00:23

Jesus definitely did not say this a pink ball said maybe Jesus said this and a red ball

01:00:29

Jesus said it and I believe in the end there was only one passage one verse that everyone agreed

01:00:37

Jesus said Do not judge Will not be judged

01:00:43

That's the only thing they could all agree Jesus must have said we talked about throwing pearls before swine

01:00:50

We see that in the context of Jesus condemning people for their Hypocrisy in the way they judge others right folks.

01:01:00

You've all seen this I'm sure when someone is judging you and you're looking at their life and going pot meat kettle

01:01:08

Right, yeah, you you're sitting there looking at someone who is judging you for something, you know, they do far worse

01:01:16

Even if you do it, you know, they're worse at it. Yeah Politicians. Yes They would never do that.

01:01:23

No, we can always trust the government If the NSA's NSA is listening always trust government always trust government.

01:01:30

Okay FBI. I'm on your side. Okay. I'm on your side I'm not a whistleblower Whistleblower, I don't want to disappear

01:01:38

Well, you don't suicide me hey, you can always be a whistleblower against Trump and you're gonna be protected, right?

01:01:45

Even if you're not actually a whistleblower They'll claim you are one and you're protected your name and identity.

01:01:50

We got us we got to protect you So we see about throwing the pearls before swine as we're talking with when to walk away from a conversation

01:02:00

That's actually not Directly used in in that context, but it is something that it's talking about judging.

01:02:07

It's talking about hypocritical judgment and There is a thing where?

01:02:14

When you're trying to reason with someone that is that hypocritical They got a log in their eye and all they could do is see this little speck in yours

01:02:23

It is you you're offering something holy to people who they don't want trample you

01:02:29

Mm -hmm Okay, and so there is a passage of Scripture though That does tell us how to handle when we have someone that's like this

01:02:39

Because the question we were starting with right is when when do we walk away from a conversation? well,

01:02:46

I'll encourage those of you who are not driving or kite surfing for Eric And well, maybe he can he might be talented enough and have a waterproof

01:02:55

Bible and he can kite surf while looking up Titus chapter 3 But Titus 3 starting in verse 8 and we're real key is gonna be verse 10

01:03:03

But it says this this is a trustworthy statement and according to these things. I want

01:03:09

You to speak confidently so that those who have believed God Will be careful to engage in good deeds these things are good and profitable for men, but avoid foolish

01:03:26

Controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the law for they are unprofitable worthless reject a

01:03:35

Factious man after the first and second warning knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning against sinning being self -condemned

01:03:45

So this is something that says hey, we only give them one or two warnings and then be done with them

01:03:51

Now that doesn't mean we're done with them Just we have one conversation type of thing it's the idea that when you see someone who just is they constantly want to debate these foolish controversies or genealogies in Disputes the law that it's are those is it limited to that?

01:04:10

No, those are the things that they were doing in Paul's day. The idea is when someone is making an argument

01:04:16

They just want to keep arguing over something and just that it is unprofitable Unprofitable You warn them once you warn them twice and you don't and that's like we did with Ben, right?

01:04:27

We said it on the show. We said it in the email and I'm done, right? I like what

01:04:33

Gabe Hughes does if you haven't heard, you know, the what videos the How I just drew a blank on what it means what that when we understand the text that's what the what stands for but You know

01:04:48

Gabe said that one of the policies he has for social media is When he puts out something and someone disagrees and criticizes him

01:04:56

He will offer one correction They were they still don't they ignore what he says

01:05:04

Then he just does it's a second thing of thank him for the time. Have a good day So he has like a to comment policy with people.

01:05:14

I think that's really good That's practicing this out and saying, you know, hey gave you a chance

01:05:20

Done with it. Well, I mean it's like pastor our friend pastor Darren's did says he says

01:05:26

How to know when to walk away from a conversation rule one if it's on Twitter walk away

01:05:33

Yeah, like this guy who told me you know, like somehow I'm stuck I don't know how to answer that, you know that guy's claim

01:05:41

You Know I don't see anything in the Bible that talks about the chosen or Chick -fil -a being a standard of Christian that I don't see that as a definition of Christian in the

01:05:52

Bible, right? Can I answer it? Sure. I just did Right. Yeah, I mean but but in getting in into the topic of social media

01:06:01

Social media is not the best medium to have those conversations hence hence even sometimes an email

01:06:08

Hence, I asked Ben Come in. Mm -hmm. Oh Chris is telling me

01:06:13

I should stop being logical Yeah, hey that logic stuff gets in the way yeah, so I You know when we look at this we have to realize that you have to do some evaluating of the person and seeing whether that person is

01:06:34

Is going to be reasonable? Mm -hmm You know here

01:06:40

Pastor Darren says reading things according to context is racist well You know,

01:06:47

I know he meant this as a joke, but let's take it in one aspect when you have someone that starts

01:06:55

Reading in motives for you that you don't have. I mean I've said this for for a decade now that When my policy is when you tell me what

01:07:06

I think or my motives are what I believe and I correct you and You tell me that you know, you my motives better than I know my motives

01:07:17

I'm done with you. You're not being reasonable and that is for me That's when

01:07:23

I end a conversation because I now know I'm not dealing with a reasonable person I don't know

01:07:29

Drew's heart better than drew does in drew be deceived. Yes Can I be deceived?

01:07:36

Yes, but I know one thing for sure According to first Corinthians 13 if drew says this was my motive

01:07:44

I trust that because he's a believer now unless I'm questioning that but I'm not with drew but You accept that that's what he says is his motive unless you're proven

01:07:57

Otherwise somehow you accept that and there are some places in conversation where you can't tell and so you have to stop and say

01:08:05

Okay, what are you getting at? What's your point now with people that I know really well I know when they're asking a clarifying question or they're just kind of giving giving their opinion and whatnot

01:08:16

But some people that I don't know very well. I'll say What's your motive chickens chickens is my motive,

01:08:24

I mean whenever the chickens show up we we should put them in so For you know,

01:08:31

John is here. He likes to let us see his chickens. So There they are, okay

01:08:42

John is a regular and he's got his dad. It's summertime and his chickens are out. That's why he's called the chicken, man He said chicken is his name tonight was chicken man returns so had to put them in but yeah, when you have someone that's gonna tell you what your

01:08:59

KT says chicken therapy time Chris on holds all that's random, of course

01:09:07

But you know, I've had some run -ins with with Drew is practicing his segues and he did well, yeah

01:09:14

It came in I adjusted accordingly there you go so but what we end up seeing is that when we do have someone who is

01:09:24

Just being completely irrational and and I believe that someone telling you

01:09:30

What you believe I mean the first time I had this experience that I remember is this

01:09:36

Her name was Heidi turned out that I found out that she was going after Matt's like and others Just as bad as she was going after me, but She used to have a thing where when

01:09:46

Facebook first started and you could like you could block someone and unblock them and reblock them And there was no time limit.

01:09:52

Mm -hmm She used to You know tell me that I believe

01:09:57

I'm a Calvinist I'm going to hell because I believe that God does not allow us to make any choices and he

01:10:05

Forces us to sin and then she'd block me so I can't remove it And the only reason

01:10:12

I knew it was because everyone would comment. She's actually the first person I blocked because When they put a you had to wait six months before you could block someone again.

01:10:20

She did that And she couldn't reblock me. I'm like, ah, I could block her and so and she would create different accounts and do it again but she told me what

01:10:31

I'm like, I Literally, I remember saying to her look that's not what

01:10:36

I believe. I said my doctrinal statement is there. It's been online for years And she her response.

01:10:43

She said you're hiding your real beliefs And I still remember said look one of the two of us knows what

01:10:52

I believe Better than the other and I think I'm the expert here on what

01:10:58

I believe Right, and so at that point you're not dealing with someone who is As you said

01:11:04

Debating in good faith. I would say just not being reasonable Chris Hunhold is saying here irrational

01:11:10

He said like the guy that became entirely unglued when he found out

01:11:16

I was I Was an officer a law enforcement I was wondering what

01:11:22

Leo was and started calling me an oath breaker and a Nazi Unhinged people are not worth your time and and that is true

01:11:31

You you you just it's but it's a fine line like at what point Are they just trying to fight against the goad, right?

01:11:40

You know when I was this was about what we know when the whole after the

01:11:45

George Floyd stuff When the real autopsy started coming out, it's up that that's the hero

01:11:51

George Floyd, right? Yes, we're all where they raised all the money and then the neighborhood where he died is now in ruins

01:12:00

Yes. Yeah. Yeah So when the real autopsy came out that showed he it was a fentanyl overdose

01:12:07

You know, I shared the autopsy on Facebook And this guy that I've I've we grew up together

01:12:16

His dad was one of my basketball coaches. His dad was one of the top five men

01:12:22

Greatest men I've ever known in my life He starts calling me a racist. Who are the other four?

01:12:30

It's secret Are you hoping you're in you're in the top five

01:12:36

I'm not even in the Dude, I I'm so far down to the you can't count that high but uh

01:12:43

But he started calling me a racist and I'm going really I've we grew up together if there's anyone that knows

01:12:53

I'm not a racist It's you and then he just kept calling me a racist and I said, all right Okay, I'm a racist and then walked away.

01:13:01

Yeah, and and that's that's the thing to do and on Twitter. Yeah So, let's see

01:13:07

So let me see some comments we have here Chris Han hold said always great to jump online when Andrew and drew are on the air

01:13:13

You know, it's you know, it's better than that Chris on holds When Chris Han holds is on the air.

01:13:18

There we go. When Chris Han holds jumps in to join us Okay, so I guess this was haps big question here

01:13:26

Beef bacon or pork bacon Lol, I'm going pork bacon, dude.

01:13:32

What are you kidding me? No, it has to be beef. No, it's poor God. God made it clear.

01:13:37

All right Have you ever had pork bacon? I mean from a pig.

01:13:43

That's what God made them. Oh sure Look I love ham.

01:13:49

I love bacon. I love Pulled pork and and it's all because of Christ that you can love them exactly

01:14:00

And I and I enjoy it to the glory of God. Yeah. Alright, so let's get to some of these questions we had here

01:14:06

So John had asked earlier What are your thoughts on Jehovah Witnesses? well I think they're they're wonderful people who who out of a love for Christ come to my door and Want to share with me the truth of the

01:14:19

Watchtower Bible and track Society Other than that, they're going to hell Yeah, I mean so so Joe witnesses

01:14:27

I'll encourage you John if you're not familiar I will encourage you get my book What do they believe it will go over an overview of what drove witnesses believe but in case you're you're not aware some of the major things that They would hold to one they don't believe

01:14:46

Jesus Christ is God that's a major one They believe that he is the first created being that God Created Michael the

01:14:57

Archangel who came to earth as Jesus Returned in the form of Michael and then Michael created all things so major issues there

01:15:11

Colossians 1 15 to 18 read that section. It's very clear that Jesus created all things

01:15:18

If he created all things he could not be a created thing That's why in their translation they have to say four times

01:15:25

They're all other things because they want to say Jesus was created And they what's the verse?

01:15:33

To which of his angels has he ever said sit at my right hand until I make your yes That's that is in Hebrews.

01:15:41

I think he was one Quoting, I think if I'm not correctly some to Yeah, and so Yes, so I mean but but you look at the context there

01:15:52

It's very clearly that you don't need to add the word the word other actually changes the meaning It's not there in the

01:15:59

Greek So that's the biggest thing That's why my my question when I see the Jehovah Witnesses out there and they're there there

01:16:05

For people to ask questions. My question is always this Why did Jesus have to be

01:16:11

God? And they're like, oh we don't believe he he is I know I know but why did he have to be

01:16:17

God and they go Well, we don't believe he is God.

01:16:22

I know but why did he have to be God and eventually they go? Well, you tell me thank you

01:16:30

And I'll go he had to be God if he was a payment for our sin because if We think that we can sin against an infinitely.

01:16:38

Holy God Who is infinitely holy and we think that just a little time in non -existence would would

01:16:46

You know in a soul sleep is gonna make up for it No we have an infinite consequence because he's infinitely holy and infinitely just and infinitely wrathful and going to punish those with an infinite consequence so only an

01:16:59

Infinite being can pay an infinite fine because it would take us an infinity to pay it

01:17:05

So he had to be God if he was a payment of sin for us if we're not if Jesus Christ is not

01:17:12

God Then we're dead in our sin and we all will be in hell So if you deny that he's

01:17:20

God You're you have hell to look forward to and I don't want that for you

01:17:25

That's how I open which of witnesses and and we actually so we time this once Anthony Florida with our families and we saw a stand and we're like well

01:17:35

It's first thing before we walked around. We were like, let's go over talk to drove witnesses. This is what it's like with Anthony Like our poor families are like again

01:17:46

So I said, okay, let's let's have some fun with it. At least I said before we got out of the car said everyone May choose it choose a time how many minutes?

01:17:57

before they they shift do the shift and Try to get away from us.

01:18:02

Mm -hmm, and I was closest I I think I said four minutes or no

01:18:07

I think I said two minutes and Anthony said four minutes and I think it was like two and a half minutes that You know

01:18:15

I said what I said in about two minutes and that it was took 30 seconds for them to just Back up and back away from us and the other group came in The more experienced groups, you know,

01:18:27

I was I was just learning about evangelism and this was right around the time

01:18:33

I started with FedEx and I was just listening to dr.

01:18:41

White Explaining how to evangelize to Jehovah's Witnesses on my way driving into work

01:18:47

I stopped at a gas station to get my my healthy honey bun breakfast from the gas station and Wouldn't you know it at the counter was a

01:18:57

Jehovah's Witness giving one of the watchtower and track society pamphlets to the cashier and I said

01:19:04

I Guess we're doing this today You're not gonna want that And let me tell you why and so I started engaging with the cashier and the

01:19:14

Jehovah's Witness and then later that day While I'm on the route remember, this is my first day.

01:19:19

I'm on the route. I'm delivering this big 70 inch TV to a house where Jehovah's Witnesses had pulled up to talk to the guy

01:19:29

I'm walking back down and they say hey, can we talk to you for a second? I Guess we're doing it twice today

01:19:35

Yeah, so so the number one thing Jehovah's Witnesses deny the deity of Christ major They don't believe in a in a hell an eternal hell they believe that when

01:19:49

Someone dies they go into what they call soul sleep just non -existence And then there's a judgment where God will bless those who are his and they will spend eternity on earth

01:20:02

Well, sorry a hundred and forty four thousand will be on earth and then the rest are in heaven hmm

01:20:09

New heaven new earth you'd rather be on the new earth rather than new heaven Okay, which is interesting when they take communion

01:20:15

No one takes communion because only if you're a member Which by the way, there's 144 ,000 are quite clear in Revelation, they're all

01:20:28

Jewish they're of the twelve tribes of Israel. So don't know what the Gentiles do with that, but Uh -uh -uh

01:20:36

Do you see what I see I do? There he is man myth the legend

01:20:43

Holds a voice of reason radio Hey guys as Captain America Not not so much these days

01:20:56

Well don't fit like it used to well, you're Captain America in my heart Have you taken

01:21:03

Chris Honnold's into your heart Captain America into your heart

01:21:11

Okay, so This would get so We can get some fun discussions with Chris here, too

01:21:20

Oh, hey, I've meant to put this one up. Melissa said this this from earlier There's nothing wrong with receiving money to support your ministry.

01:21:28

Yeah, and that that's the thing of you know, I Look folks. I would be happy to not run the ads on on YouTube if People would would support the ministry more.

01:21:38

I'll just be honest I guess I should put the banner up from where if I could find it There's a support page.

01:21:44

So if you go to striving for turning dot org slash support, you could support us you know our whole ministry and We're not a ministry that we don't have

01:21:54

Staff payroll things like that. We give the money toward ministry So that I think the last number was 76 percent of all the donations that come in go toward ministry not overhead not salaries not things like that and That's to help smaller churches that can't afford to get people to come out and speak to come out.

01:22:16

That's what we try to do That's what that most that money is going toward us towards travel And so yeah travel costs are have tripled and so the money doesn't go like it used to just the way it is and and I just I it does bug me with the fact of You know people that somehow think like if we're

01:22:37

Monetizing YouTube or putting ads on the website or if I ask for support somehow,

01:22:44

I'm doing something. I'm not trusting God Well, I am trusting

01:22:49

God for you know, I I don't draw I draw a small salary from the ministry

01:22:57

Very small it doesn't even pay my mortgage Okay, not even half the mortgage actually

01:23:06

Yeah, it pays less than half the mortgage Okay, so it's not a lot

01:23:13

But the only reason they did that they started paying me anything was because my kids were in college and I had no way of paying it and so You know,

01:23:22

I had a way of paying it, but I didn't have a way of paying their increase that they did At the second year of college and so they said look we want we wanted to support you and so but yeah

01:23:32

I why because we really want the money to go toward the mission of striving fraternity, which is discipleship

01:23:39

And so we look for where we're not begging for money all the time. I don't like doing that.

01:23:44

So Well, if I can say something about that Andrew, um, you know, Paul himself said, you know in sending

01:23:52

You know Letters out to the churches talks about certain people that he sent and he said these are men that are worthy of your support and he even in In talking to the churches about bringing money back or gifts back to the church in Jerusalem The idea that we can support one another's ministries is a biblical

01:24:16

Concept there's nothing wrong with it The difference I think is that are we going out of our way to like hey

01:24:23

You need to really give if you want our ministry to succeed you got That's that's where you're you're putting the pressure on somebody else to make you be successful Rather than saying and and you know us we don't like to even mention it on voice reason radio at all

01:24:40

But it's like if you want to support this is how you can do it This is a way that you can support and then it's like, okay

01:24:48

Lord, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna drum beat this drum into The ground I'm not gonna you know guilt them over it.

01:24:54

I'm just gonna make that available It took a lot of effort by several people before we even did anything like a patreon

01:25:01

Because there is that sense where you're like, I don't want to make people feel like they have to make this happen

01:25:07

I you know, it's like and I know you're you don't you don't go out of your way to Bring all kinds of money into the ministry.

01:25:16

You're just trying to make the the you know, the ministry have enough to you know Be successful. So for people to say you're not trusting the

01:25:23

Lord what you're basically saying to Andrew and other ministries is I Don't want to have to support you.

01:25:28

I Just want you to trust God and then God will miraculously happen

01:25:34

I don't have to do anything if you say that you make me feel bad and honestly folks if you're saying that shame on you

01:25:41

Shame on you These ministries it look my ministries run out of my house

01:25:46

I don't even like saying ministry, but other people call it that so what's the reason radios run out of my house? Rich and I pretty much pay for the website

01:25:53

Somebody else maybe throws up some money at us to help pay for that website once in a while And then we have a couple people that pay through patreon to help us pay for the monthly cost for hosting and that's it

01:26:04

We that helps us put the show on the air without an undue burden on us

01:26:09

But we're not going out and At no cost. I'll tell you this right now.

01:26:15

I know Andrew I know that he is going to these churches pretty much at no cost Unless maybe that the church can help them get there or give them a place to stay

01:26:25

So that the churches are getting the you know, the apologetics training that will benefit their congregants

01:26:32

For you to sit there and say well, you're not trusting God. How dare you? You know you want the benefit but you don't want to you don't want to be part of at least holding the rope

01:26:41

So they can go down and do the work. I don't say that to shame anyone

01:26:47

But that is just on that that really bothers me and this is coming from somebody Andrew will do this on my show

01:26:54

He'll try to fundraise for our show. I don't do it. I don't like say Andrew always tries to raise money for other

01:27:00

He does But I don't like doing that Because I don't want to guilt people into it and I'm irritated when

01:27:09

I hear people say You're not trusting God that is that is just shameful for someone to treat you that way when all you're asking is

01:27:18

Hey all were if you can help here's how Yeah, I'm a guy who?

01:27:25

Because I was a Christian and he was a Christian He wanted me to give him a copy of my book. What do they believe?

01:27:31

He was like as a Christian. You should just you should give that away And I I just I still remember

01:27:38

I turned to him and I said, let me ask you a question How much is 14 years of your life worth?

01:27:44

And he's like, what do you mean? I said, well, that's how long it took me To study and read and get all everything together for that book 14 years of Diving in and reading and studying and You think it's just to be free.

01:28:02

I Mean and the paper cost money too. So I should I should know all that time, but I should pay for you like Okay, so can

01:28:10

I do the same with you? Yeah, yeah, do you have a pressure washing company, you know, you're a

01:28:22

Christian You should just just come pressure wash my driveway for free. Yeah Most people have no idea

01:28:29

I have several friends who are authors one of them actually did one time he's it wrote fiction and and he broke down what the actual cost of Putting it together printing it binding it

01:28:41

Going through the entire expense and by the time you actually put a price tag on it and just start selling

01:28:47

You might be lucky if you break even so the idea that you should give it away Well, who's given how about this?

01:28:54

How about you pay the people that put the books together for Andrew so he can put them together and give him away

01:29:00

Can you do that? So so Kofi says

01:29:06

You know that you're trusting God to provide through the ordinary means that ministry is provided for Through the kindness of God's people.

01:29:16

So the nor the ordinary means is you give to your church first? yes, first foremost you give to your church and then out of the

01:29:26

Abundance of what God has given you be on that you can bless other ministries

01:29:32

And and some of those ministries as Melissa saying drew Chris and you each let us know how we can

01:29:39

Ministry, I appreciate both your ministries So then you can go to voice the reason radio matter of theology and support them.

01:29:46

So Chris how they support you know for us There's really not a way to do that now

01:29:55

We used to have a patreon and the only reason we started a patreon So if you listen to old older episodes of matter of theology, you'll hear me say, you know we do have a patreon and yada yada yada and the only reason we started that is because my mom wanted a

01:30:11

Gift to the ministry. And so I said, well, we don't have a way for that It really was like, you know

01:30:19

Dave Jackson from School of podcasting says, you know, you need someone other than your mom to listen to your podcast

01:30:31

But but then we did away with a patreon and So, I mean we really don't have a way

01:30:38

To do well, okay. So so the way to do it. So if you want to donate to matter of theology

01:30:43

Here's what you do go to Christian podcast community org where they are also a member

01:30:50

Go to the shows find matter of theology and in there at the bottom of that page is a place to leave comments

01:30:57

Leave the comment saying can you please give us your address or a

01:31:02

PO box or something where we can send you a check? There you go All right,

01:31:08

I guess I have to do this because Melissa, you know shamed me into it now So If she didn't

01:31:16

I was going to So if you go to slave to the king .com

01:31:21

that has the links for all of our stuff including the patreon that we use

01:31:27

I in one of one of these days I Really should get around to using patreon.

01:31:33

The what it's designed to is that you provide extra content. I Don't manage my time well

01:31:42

So one of these days maybe it will do that and maybe if we get enough some people wanting it We'll do that. But if you go to that, it'll take you to the patreon and that will

01:31:51

You know, that's how you can contribute. We used to have a One -time donation through Who was it?

01:32:02

The one that was going to charge you all kinds of money if you did wrong speak, uh, I Forget the name of it now.

01:32:08

Yeah Not We used to do that and then when it came out that yeah, they could you know, just basically docked your money

01:32:17

Right out of your own personal account. I'm like, no I'm not gonna have people who are kind enough to don't donate to us have their money stolen because PayPal decided

01:32:26

I had wrong think So we don't have a single way of doing that at this time. So patreon is the only other way

01:32:34

So if you're inclined to it is it's set up for monthly. I think I've had some people suggest some other means to me.

01:32:41

I just gotta look into him, you know, if you want to support Chris Han holds Personally in his next career.

01:32:47

You could give the money is striving for eternity. Just mark, you know, Chris Han holds chief blogger

01:32:53

No, no Money he has no more Excuse why he can't work for us because the money's there for him.

01:33:02

No This is gonna happen. Yeah I'm trying

01:33:10

Through you should you should set up a substack brother much better than patreon. So so we

01:33:16

Look into it. So Melissa did ask. Okay, so it if I can't pay my mortgage from the ministry, how do

01:33:23

I pay my mortgage? And so the answer to that is I I still have side work that I'm capable of doing

01:33:31

I don't require a lot of sleep And so I have a background in cybersecurity and things like that And so I have other means that I can do and I do that because I don't want there's two reasons one

01:33:43

I don't want to have to try to raise enough money To from ministry that the that money would go toward feeding my family versus ministry.

01:33:53

I want the money going toward ministry. So We all of our speakers

01:33:59

Anthony Frank people who've spoken with us before anyone that speaks in the future We have other means of income

01:34:06

So that we could do ministry with the ministry money. That's that's kind of our mindset

01:34:13

The other reason is very simple I'll be honest with you folks that don't know a lot about the way ministries parachurch ministries work

01:34:20

When they start getting big they have salaries when they have salaries They don't want to fire people and now they're stuck when bad times come like we're in now where people have to make decisions

01:34:32

How do we keep the money coming in and for the sake of salary? It sounds good

01:34:37

You're taking care of those people working for you. You make decisions That are not good

01:34:44

We don't have that problem if my salary is gone. My salary is gone it would affect our living sure, but It's it's not going to Put me in the poorhouse because I have other means, you know,

01:34:59

I just pick up another job or something, you know so KT said

01:35:06

Andrew could snoop into our computers probably to be careful. This one holds may know a thing or two about that We got to find out what episode that is

01:35:16

Okay, someone should binge It'll be worth it

01:35:27

Because we've got somebody who discovered our show who is literally like going through seven years of shows and is

01:35:34

Commenting on almost every one of them. So the next show I'll just ask that that particular user.

01:35:41

Hey go Well, they're listing in order. It's gonna be a long time before they hear that. I Can't tell how they're doing.

01:35:49

It's it's random it I don't I'm going to respond to the comment I know it's definitely within the last three three years.

01:35:58

Yeah D says Paul was a tent maker just to be in context.

01:36:04

So you want to share that story since we broke because it's No, don't just mention inside, you know stories without explaining them if you get an inside joke, you got to explain it

01:36:18

So Chris, I'll let you do the honor of this one We've told this

01:36:23

I have a dozen times already so I'm sure everybody knows it but in case there's new so Andrew has had a running joke about having you know spot being able to spy on me.

01:36:34

You think it's running joke So One time we're recording and I forget what prompted it, but we

01:36:45

I we were I think we were talking about You know the the little sound bites and stuff that you you tend to grab and we were talking about having yes you

01:36:57

Poor rich Giving him a complex. I'm just saying but so You could say that I would do

01:37:05

I mean do that. Although I have been frequently I Don't know what you're referring to, you know,

01:37:16

I was listening to the latest episode of voice of reason and he did the same thing But so anyway and I think we were having gremlin issues that night and I and I made a joke it's probably

01:37:32

Andrews fault He's got cameras spying on us. And as I'm saying this while we are recording

01:37:40

Andrew is real -time not realizing that we're saying these things is Commenting because I always ask.

01:37:48

Hey, we're getting ready to record. Please. Yo, please pray for us and Andrew made a comment Oh, I already know

01:37:53

I have cameras in your house. I'm reading that as I had just made the comment

01:37:59

I lost rich rich is trying to say something. I lose it Busting up like nobody's business

01:38:05

Andrew has no clue at this point what just happened and it's not until later when he hears that and he starts dying laughing

01:38:12

Cuz he goes like wait So literally it was the most perfect timing we had just said it rich is starting to move on I see

01:38:22

Andrews comment and that was the end. We lost the show. It was complete Candelarium after that Or anything to your camera

01:38:32

So I should Pastor Darren Steed has outed me. Oh, he's out.

01:38:38

It does that to people? Yeah, here we go Andrew has a full -time job raising raising fundraising for everyone else's ministry.

01:38:49

Yes It he says Andrew could do an

01:38:56

AI thing with my voice scary. Yeah, I probably could you know, I think I think

01:39:04

Great idea Drew how much would you like to hear

01:39:10

Chris Han holds accepting a wall for striving for eternity? All right, great idea

01:39:21

Let's see if we can get through some of these questions Kind of quickly so caps had asked that it wasn't really a question.

01:39:27

I guess it was but he just said explain limited atonement So let's go through this because this is where I think

01:39:35

I may end up differing with both drew and Chris now

01:39:41

I'm gonna say and and there's a term that I've been hearing lately called classic Calvinist and and that would be more in line with what

01:39:50

I am. So there is and and there is a book that That I'm gonna be reading

01:39:58

It is called I'm trying to look it up From heaven he came and sought her definite atonement in a historical biblical theological and pastoral perspective and It's several different articles

01:40:14

But there is an article by Carl Truman on John Owens on the nature of Christ satisfaction the issue being is that John Owens work of death of death

01:40:29

Really changed for many the view of or some would say the view of limit what a limited atonement is.

01:40:36

So I Would I would argue that a limited atonement means quite clearly? That there are those in hell

01:40:44

Everyone but everyone except the Universalist believe the atonement is limited Okay, unless you believe everyone's going to heaven or everyone is going to hell we believe the atonement is limited and So with that We we recognize the fact

01:41:05

That there are those in hell it's limited but now the question is By what standard what is it that limits so and really the question comes down to The sufficiency the efficacy of the atonement it comes to the issue of who did

01:41:26

Christ die for Okay, so let's deal with these things. I'm gonna give my view. I'm then gonna let these brothers correct me.

01:41:33

So I'm okay with it. So When we when and and even the

01:41:41

Puritans when you read a lot of the Puritans You will see them speak of the fact that Christ's death was sufficient for all effective or efficient for few and That is the idea that did

01:41:56

Christ die for all people Or only for the elect and this is the way it's often discussed so Mm -hmm

01:42:07

The issue that I have that I bring up is We all look at Scripture so first John 2 2

01:42:15

It says and I'll back up and read verse 1 my little children I'm writing to you these things so you may know so that you may not sin and If anyone sins we have an advocate with the

01:42:28

Father Jesus Christ the righteous and he himself is the propitiation of our sins

01:42:35

And not ours only but also those of the whole world now

01:42:43

There's there's the issue here is Christ is clearly the text is saying Christ is propitiation.

01:42:49

That's a big fancy word It means the satisfaction. It means that it was the pain that that it satisfied the father

01:42:57

Christ death satisfied the father now Mm -hmm. The issue is

01:43:05

Who's the world does world always mean world Okay. Well world can mean every human being

01:43:12

But it doesn't have to but whole world qualifies it Okay, granted that qualifies it but that could be the whole world just meaning all the all the people groups

01:43:22

That's a fair rate reading of it And and I'm I'm gonna take for granted

01:43:27

I'm gonna assume that's the position that Chris and Drew will take However, the the real thing.

01:43:33

I think we have to battle with is the who is the not us because whoever the us are the not us

01:43:42

Christ died for and There's a couple things here. I Think he answers that in verse 1 my little children.

01:43:52

He's telling us who the us are So the not us are those who are not the children

01:43:59

So I I don't believe this is the Jewish Gentile distinction because I think that that is

01:44:05

Already passed at that point. Okay So I wrote in my notes here on this passage

01:44:13

I say the key to this this text is the question of who is being spoken of in the text There are two groups of people mentioned that Jesus is a propitiation for sin us and not us

01:44:24

Thus the question is who is the us many will claim that it refers to Jews and Gentiles However, by a time of first John there wasn't there was not a

01:44:32

Jew Gentile issue anymore furthermore There was no reference in first John to the

01:44:39

Jew Gentile distinction Therefore that does not seem to fit the context John was addressing the issue of the the

01:44:48

Gnostics not Jews Gentiles The context I move my cursor and I lost the thing the context provides the answer in verse 1 the us is

01:44:59

My little children. This was John's way to speak of believers So if the us are an hour are referring to believers then the not

01:45:09

Not of us only must refer to non -believers. So I am of the position

01:45:14

I could say Christ died for all people Now I could say that as a human not being infinite in my understanding and knowledge

01:45:24

In I can say Christ died for you to an unbeliever From this passage and say that his death was sufficient

01:45:32

But it wasn't applied to them if they if they die without Christ in in its application.

01:45:38

It was not effective now In God's mind, did he know who he would die for?

01:45:46

Well, yeah because he knows everything So he knew who it was applied to and who it wasn't but and this is a poor example, but it's the example that I give

01:45:56

If I go into a restaurant and I say I I share the gospel. I just openly say

01:46:01

I'm paying for everyone's meal I just want to share the gospel with you There's gonna be someone that's gonna be I'm paying my own meal even though I paid it and I know this because I actually did this in a restaurant where we shared the gospel with someone and Then a friend of mine.

01:46:15

I paid his meal. It was paid He went up to the register and paid it a second time

01:46:21

And he came to our table and he's like, I'm not letting anyone buy me something and I said Show you yeah, and I looked at him.

01:46:28

I said this is why you're going to hell because you won't accept a free gift You won't even accept it from God and so he paid it again he paid it himself

01:46:38

Even though I was already covered Bad example, but it kind of works for me.

01:46:44

So I I believe I can say to an unbeliever Christ died for you

01:46:50

Now that is where some people would say I'm not a Calvinist because they think that that's not a proper view of limited atonement

01:46:56

But I would argue that it was a common understanding of limited atonement even during the

01:47:02

Puritan times before John Owens books death of death and There's two books that I have that I'm working my way through that seem to indicate that Both independently because I don't see him quoting each other so far at least but Referencing that John Owens book death of death seems to be the turning point of on the definition of limited atonement

01:47:25

So you guys can correct me where you think I'm wrong. Go ahead Chris Okay.

01:47:30

Well of the three of us. I'm probably the least qualified to speak on this issue. But here's what I understand is that Christ death would be sufficient for the whole

01:47:43

The issue is as you say, who is it applied to? When he's writing my little children,

01:47:50

I think the first thing is it who's who's the little children? It's the audience to whom he's writing. And so when you're saying my little children

01:47:57

Not us, but also to the whole world. You have a specific audience that's reading this and then there's

01:48:03

Those who would be saved outside of that audience in that time and place So I think it's pretty easy to say that as you you pointed out

01:48:13

Does the world does the whole world mean whole world like every single person? Well, in which case if you believe that you believe in universalism or Is it all throughout the whole world all those who believe and I think consistently especially when we look at that You know

01:48:29

John, this is the same apostle John who wrote in John 3 16 that you know, whosoever shall believe

01:48:35

You know those that's the one that God saves So, how do we get to that? It's because God in his word has said that he draws to himself those who will believe in Christ He is known.

01:48:47

He is predestined them from eternity past. They will be you know, sink, you know, justified sanctified glorified so that that application of Salvation is to all those who would believe whom

01:49:02

God predestined in eternity past Nothing happens outside of God's decree. Why because if it happened outside of God's decree

01:49:09

God is not God So therefore everything that happens good bad middle of the road, whatever

01:49:16

The day you had today was according to God's sovereign will So if all things are according to his decree, then those who are saved are according to his decree therefore when you

01:49:28

Andrew or drew or anybody else goes out and preaches the gospel Anyone who responds in repentance and faith has done so at as part of God's predetermined plan of salvation

01:49:38

So could could it save everyone? Yes, will it save everyone? No, because it only saves those who respond to repentance and faith and those who respond to repentance and faith throughout the whole world are

01:49:49

Those who God is predestined to salvation. So I Get where you're coming from ultimately

01:49:54

I have to settle on the fact that the audience to whom he is writing That's my little children and that will be throughout history

01:50:02

I understand that but he has a specific people in mind and then he says but not only us

01:50:08

So not not only myself not only you who hear this but through the sins of the whole world so so let me so you're saying the not us so the us are the

01:50:19

Specific people he's writing to and then not us are believers in the future or throughout the world

01:50:25

Who is he if he's writing let's just say this was like Paul's letter to the Ephesians Paul had a specific audience

01:50:31

So if he were to say something to that effect, he's referring to himself and that audience so to whomever

01:50:38

John had written this epistle That immediate audience is the us him and and and those who are in that audience that outside of that is

01:50:49

Throughout the whole world because not everybody at that time is going to be reading Paul's letter but you're going to have believers throughout the known world at that time as the gospel continues to go forth and And for the sake we may not get to hold the questions tonight

01:51:02

But I'll say this, you know, I haven't heard that argument before I mean when I hear the Jewish Gentile distinction to me

01:51:09

It sounded like someone that's trying to fit something into their can click to have a can I would agree and they're trying to fit it in but the way that You you explained, you know,

01:51:22

I think that could be a plausible Interpretation from within the context

01:51:27

I'd have to read through the rest of first John with that in mind and see whether that Would be consistent

01:51:34

Never never heard it before so I haven't thought it through. Like I said, I'm probably the least qualified to speak It doesn't matter who's look we all of us have the

01:51:44

Holy Spirit so all of us are equally qualified to speak to it and And we all have to listen to one another and say okay.

01:51:50

Hey, you know, like I mean I'm saying I Have to I have to think through I hadn't heard that never thought of it that way

01:51:57

Let me reread all of first John with that in mind and say Maybe my view is gonna change

01:52:04

Right, and that's how we should handle these things Yeah, Chris that's a your interpretation of that is how

01:52:11

I've always taken that and looked at that Andrew the way you opened your explanation is one that I would agree with, you know

01:52:19

Everyone limits the atonement to some extent. They either limit it in Its extent so who it covers or they limit it by its efficacy, right?

01:52:30

Does it work? And and so as long as there are people in hell the atonement is limited but I've always thought that limited atonement probably isn't the correct term.

01:52:41

It is more better Defined as definite atonement or indefinite atonement. So does

01:52:47

Christ actually save and You know, I have to say yes, he does now when we talk about the limitation of that Well, we also have to consider

01:53:01

Romans 9 right the potter because the potter makes vessels of clay for mercy and vessels for wrath but I Would agree with Andrew we can go to people and say

01:53:16

God died for you Why because we don't know who the elect are And so every time we go out to preach the gospel or evangelize people or we're preaching at a conference or in a church

01:53:29

Particular redemption. That's a good term, too Whenever we go out to proclaim the gospel

01:53:37

We can have assurance by the power of the Holy Spirit that someone somewhere is

01:53:44

Going to be affected by it. Mm -hmm And and that's sort of a thing, you know, you got America the tulip was a response to the

01:53:52

Armenians and so their view was Was that someone could you know, the thing that really saved them was their choice right and so It became the question knows

01:54:07

You're the atonement is limited in that say it's not your choosing but Christ, right?

01:54:14

that that becomes the issue which is really interesting with the the remonstrance itself because those

01:54:21

Those pastors that brought that that objection They were they were excommunicated from the church as heretics because naturally when you take that position

01:54:33

It's not just about choice. It leads to universalism and that's why they were Communicated actually it leads to what we now have open theism.

01:54:42

That's more consistent, right? Yeah, well, and the other thing to remember is that when you're talking about tulip that that five points was

01:54:49

Response to the five points right that they had presented So when you get right, I'm a look

01:54:54

I'm not as good on the history of some of the others But I understand this part is that they had introduced the five points saying this is what you know

01:55:00

How salvation works and stuff and then when he brought together they responded through those With those five points and that's where we get to it

01:55:08

But that doesn't that's not the totality of what the Calvinist belief system about Soteriology is it's simply the response to those points and so there's so much more when people start going.

01:55:20

Well, you're limiting God It's like no you need to understand the entirety of it. And so we we have to look at what?

01:55:27

The what they're responding to to see what was the meaning of limited atonement and and I'm just gonna Christie says we're not limiting

01:55:34

God like someone said oh you're putting God in a box. I go really can God tell a lie Well, no, not according to first to Titus 1 2.

01:55:41

So did God put God in a box? he can't do anything outside his nature, but Pastor Darren said this.

01:55:46

I think that the Puritan view is the proper view. It's an alignment with what Calvin also taught you know and he said

01:55:53

I Think the earliest explanation of limited atonement from my perspective So I and and and that's the thing is we'll see the thing is the

01:56:01

Puritan view but which Puritans John Owens or before John Owens are after right so so I I've kind of used the term

01:56:10

Historical Calvinist in the past, but I guess in these books I'm reading they're using the term

01:56:17

Classical Calvinist and and so those would be the people that would hold to the view that I hold to You know, but I think what we end up seeing is we all agree that when we look at this there's clearly a

01:56:32

Point where we say, okay, not everyone is saved. There's people in hell and Even though we like I could say this it's sufficient for all

01:56:41

I'm I'm gonna say it's effective for few so Look, you can get about just Calvinism in general is

01:56:50

A history of the theology of Calvinism. I forgot the author's name, but That's what it is a history of the theology

01:56:58

This is looking it up now because we know Chris and the thing is is it's a it looks intimidating

01:57:03

But it's a really it's a really easy read and once you start before you even realize it you're halfway done with the book

01:57:10

Okay, and while Chris is looking up John says drew I subscribed to your channel. God bless your ministry and And he asked earlier.

01:57:19

He said true question. Why do you why your comments turned off on your videos on YouTube? I had no clue they were turned off.

01:57:25

I Guess I'll be looking into that so so Darren Darren says the pre

01:57:32

Owen view Agree with I agree with you at the pre Owen view The response that they're in response to what that book the history and theology of Calvinism by Kurt Daniel for Daniel Yeah, you can find it right now on Amazon for $20 normally

01:57:50

Normally 50, but it's $20 and $3 .99 delivery So now this is kind of I see this comment that came up and I started and then read it.

01:58:01

So But it's a tad bit humbling but John John says this the more

01:58:06

I listen to striving for eternity the more I discover how little I know very interesting topics

01:58:13

John you don't know how touching that is. I don't know that it's deserved but Sometimes I get on here and when there's some guests

01:58:22

I realize how little I know I'm literally the kid in the corner when these when these things happen.

01:58:30

So but We do have some some things get through real quick so Melissa posted this earlier

01:58:38

Andrew you need to make an AI voice of Chris as Captain America for us where he where Oh where he says church

01:58:47

Assemble now, you know, I'm gonna start blocking some of you people I can I can do an

01:58:53

AI That can make a picture of Chris as Captain America. The question is

01:58:58

Can I get an AI to animate? Chris as Captain America saying church assemble

01:59:12

You are not helping this situation KT says this Chris you should at least pray about working with Andrew So the part about that that Chris is really thinking about is the working with Andrew Let me just clarify this

01:59:40

Okay last year Really changed my perspective. Okay when

01:59:46

I looked at retirement, which is now 246 days away. I Thought I'm gonna do stuff like Andrew does

01:59:53

I'm gonna do stuff like, you know, Daryl and Virgil I'm gonna do ministry stuff and then you are like My previous knuckleheaded governor.

02:00:02

Praise God. He's no longer in office Had come up with this grand idea to make sure state employees got the kovat jab, which was oh, by the way

02:00:10

If you don't get the jab, we're gonna hit you with a massive kovat or a surcharge on your insurance now

02:00:16

They could only give it this much for me But they could tag me massively for every unjabbed family member and that's what they were gonna do and it was going to double my insurance

02:00:26

So I was looking at retirement early which forced me for the first time at that time in 23 years to sit down and look at what my

02:00:35

Costs would look like and I realized what I wasn't gonna be bringing in I was gonna make a decent a fair amount of money, but I was gonna have to work so I could continue to provide for my family

02:00:44

That changed my entire perspective Now I realized that's not what God's calling me to God has called me giving me this tiny little platform called voice of reason radio

02:00:53

I get to write a blog once in a while I get to write it. I do a podcast once a week and that's all I really need to do

02:00:59

God has given me this much that that's it this much and that's No, no, this is what

02:01:04

I know. This is what I know You have scripture for that, uh -huh. I have prayed about this

02:01:10

I've given consideration to this Conversation with my pastors about it. I God God doesn't whisper

02:01:21

Feeling is not so so, let's see Pastor Darren C says Edwards has some pretty good stuff on his exclamation limit atonement

02:01:30

Which if memory serves me is in a line with what you said here Andrew And so but Darren also said this

02:01:39

Chris just be thankful that they are wanting an AI of Captain America and not

02:01:52

Hold on I know who Andrews call is gonna be either tonight or tomorrow and it's gonna be to James White Get on board with this

02:02:05

Oh I'm ready to leave.

02:02:13

I'm gonna go away. You guys are driving me crazy over here. Oh My word

02:02:21

Thanks to you Me look I I would blame yourself for that.

02:02:30

And so we want to explain this so you'd never saw the movie Elf or buddy the elf whatever never tells never to watch it and you and James James White gave you some abuse over that and but What was it?

02:02:47

He sent you an elf doll. Yes. Thanks to my buddy Rich you you

02:02:53

Said that James White out didn't me and then I was like throwing down a gauntlet and I am going to not be outdone by James White Or not just to send you to full -size

02:03:09

Buddy the elf does which you use this target practice, which was cool but I employed others to help out and You were getting daily buddy the elf stuff, so I Go to the mailbox

02:03:23

Until you conceded that I was not outdone by James White now if I have to really prove it

02:03:31

I mean an AI version of you is buddy the elf singing a song for that now that I Would like to see

02:03:39

James beat that one if I do that I Love my brother

02:03:50

Chris, and I know it frustrates him. So I probably won't do it. I Just I just want as my my ringtone

02:04:00

Chris Honnold as buddy the elf going buddy the elf. What's your favorite color? I Actually, I actually watched that film that movie while running on the treadmill one day just for Chris just said

02:04:13

I Post that I had seen it and look look and and James Cave is saying buddy elf is sleeping on my my pillow

02:04:26

Because he probably went to my pillow calm and used promo code SFE to get his discount on His pillow just saying you should do that too.

02:04:37

All right What one question we'll finish up with this one last question that we had there

02:04:43

Jason Cave said do we have to obey the fourth commandment today? And which day is it?

02:04:49

Now? This is an interesting question Let me give my view quick and then

02:04:54

I'll let these guys answer that way they get to again I you know Like this is a strange thing most hosts would say like they'll let everyone else say first so that they could correct things

02:05:03

I would rather have you guys correct me. I do things backwards, obviously um so so but The view that I have is that on the seventh day of creation

02:05:14

God created a Sabbath day And because it was tied to creation. There is a Sabbath that is universal for all mankind

02:05:22

And that is why when you have in like the USSR, they tried to go to a 10 -day workweek.

02:05:27

It didn't work and so what you ended up having was a case of You know them going back to a seven -day workweek because that is

02:05:39

God's design now, I Believe when Moses comes long, it gives the law you have more specific commands for the nation of Israel for the

02:05:52

Sabbath day at which at this point was on the seventh day and This was something that was done

02:06:02

Specific for the nation of Israel now I as a dispensational so gonna see a distinction between Israel and the church if someone says that there isn't that distinction

02:06:11

They're gonna need to explain why they don't keep the Passover because that's a command to keep forever

02:06:16

According to you know God for Israel. So if you're Israel better be keeping that so but the issue

02:06:26

I would have is that We are not the nation of Israel We're not under the laws for the nation of Israel and therefore we would be under the universal law of a

02:06:36

Sabbath But we can celebrate it on the first day of the week because we are celebrating the resurrection of Christ But still having a day set aside where we don't work a day of rest for the worship of God now

02:06:49

Doesn't mean we can't we can't you know Go to Starbucks. Well, no, you shouldn't go there anyway, but if you go to That But no,

02:06:59

I mean like I I don't think it means we can't you know There's people who who take it very literally you can't you can't go out to eat.

02:07:08

You can't do things like that You know, I'm really liking pastor

02:07:13

Darren he agrees and it more and more with me says yes The Sabbath is part of the created order. Yes And and so I I don't

02:07:20

I don't think we have to be under the law where we can't do these certain things Because the

02:07:27

Sabbath I Think that we're we're not to work.

02:07:33

We're under that universal one. So that's my view. I don't know what you guys say Good. I went first last time

02:07:42

Yeah, so so the idea of the Sabbath, I mean that that's honestly not a area

02:07:47

I've dabbled in and looked into So I'm not gonna speak a whole lot about it. But from my understanding is that because of the resurrection

02:07:58

Christ rising the Sabbath has now moved to Sunday and we gather on Sunday to worship

02:08:05

John John says when he's writing he says I was in the the spirit on the kudia

02:08:11

K. Hey Mara The Lord's Day and so we we use the the it's now the first day of the month that we gather and You know,

02:08:21

I would agree with Andrew it's to be a day of rest so a day of worship for the Lord and a day of rest for us, which is a blessing to us and I actually it's it's one of my things that working

02:08:34

I Will not work my job on a Sunday. I just won't

02:08:39

I have the last time I worked on a Sunday I think I was working at Public Supermarket and I was in high school and In I said

02:08:49

I said, you know, I I was convicted about I said, I'm not gonna work on the

02:08:54

Lord's Day That's a day. I'm setting aside for the Lord and for rest so,

02:09:02

I mean, I'm again, probably least qualified to speak on it, but two things that I think about when

02:09:09

I hear people bring this up and the first is that in Hebrews Chapter where am

02:09:15

I at chapter 4? The writer specifically speaks to the

02:09:22

Sabbath, you know the day of God's rest and The day since therefore it remains for some to enter it

02:09:30

Those who formally receive the good news fail to enter because of disobedience again He appoints a certain day today saying through David so long afterward in the words already quoted today

02:09:39

If you hear his voice do not harden your hearts For if Joshua had given them rest God would not have spoken another of an another day later on So then there remains a

02:09:49

Sabbath rest for the for the people of God For whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his

02:09:58

Therefore let us strive to enter that rest so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience all of this pointing to Christ that our

02:10:10

Rest from from the works is in Christ So ultimately the

02:10:15

Sabbath pointing to Christ now I don't have an issue with the idea of the Lord's Day and that being a day of worship

02:10:21

I but I look at that and I go that's Scriptures pointing us to something very specific in Christ that Christ is our

02:10:29

Sabbath rest and then I think of also Paul writing to the Romans in 14 where he says the 14 verse 5

02:10:37

One person esteems one day is better than another while another steams all days alike Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind

02:10:45

The one who observes the day observes it in honor of the Lord the one who eats eats in honor of the

02:10:50

Lord since he gives Thanks to God while the one who abstains abstains from the Lord and gives thanks to God For none of us lives to himself none and none dies to himself

02:10:59

For if we live we live to the Lord and if we die we die to the Lord So then whether we live or whether we die we are the

02:11:04

Lord's For this and for this end Christ died and lived again that he might be both

02:11:10

Lord of the dead and the living and he's Using this in and saying why are you casting judgment on what you eat or on what day you esteem?

02:11:19

those are things that You do in your own in your own conviction, you know

02:11:25

And so if if the if a Christian says Sunday is that is the

02:11:30

Lord's Day That is the day. That is most important. I'm not going to give them any heat over that Anymore than I should give any heat to someone says every day is the

02:11:39

Lord's Day and every day I worship God whether I'm with the Saints collectively in prayer and edification and worship in study or Where I whether I'm working or I'm with my family in all ways because all things are our worship.

02:11:55

It's not just music It's not just being present for the reading everything we are to do is in worship is a

02:12:02

Act of worship to God. So if I do it in all days and I esteem all days equal then

02:12:07

Either way, I'm I'm doing what I can to glorify the Lord. So for myself

02:12:13

I Look at and go The Sabbath is Christ. He is he is our rest and I Agree the

02:12:21

Lord's Day that really is it for the Christian isn't a very extremely important day that we come together to worship collectively and Then all days throughout the week should be an act of worship to God.

02:12:31

Sure. Yeah, and in speaking about worship We can look at the the first table of the law one through four as As how we should worship.

02:12:45

So the first commandment is our object of worship The second commandment is the manner in which we worship the third commandment is the heart of our worship and then the fourth commandment is the time of our worship in that rest and we can actually

02:13:00

Sum all of that up like you just said Chris in Christ Pointing to Christ.

02:13:06

That's an interesting way of viewing it drew, you know Some I think it was KT or maybe

02:13:11

Melissa. I forget who but someone referred to Colossians 2 16, which says Therefore no one is to act as Your judge in regards to food or drink in respect to festival or new moons or a

02:13:25

Sabbath day So we shouldn't be judging one another based on those things You know,

02:13:30

I was gonna end but then I see someone that comes in and we should bring it but no I meant to start to show

02:13:37

Jewish. I meant to have you asked me why I'm wearing this shirt. Oh, why are you wearing that shirt?

02:13:42

Thank you. I'm glad you asked So so I so today I was at a summit for basically was dealing with the issues in cybersecurity a bunch of people that catch bad guys for a living using computers, right so Dealing with different techniques and things.

02:14:00

So what do you do when you're you know about around a bunch of techies who? Most of which probably don't follow after God you you wear a shirt from the

02:14:10

Biblical Science Institute Jason Lyle, which got me a bunch of looks as I was walking around and people feel it

02:14:18

What what biblical science because they think those are mutually exclusive. So Great opportunity to to share

02:14:26

So Jason cave is backstage. We were gonna end but he's a regular here he supports us on YouTube for the person who wanted to know why we

02:14:35

Monetize on YouTube. He donates to us through YouTube. So but so Jason welcome

02:14:41

I was gonna end but you know, you came in so you have a question. He's wearing a UGA shirt

02:14:47

Go dogs Yes Amen yes, sir.

02:14:55

Now. I wanted to just jump in real quick and thank you guys for your time and answering the question Just to get some more clarification.

02:15:02

I've got a guy that works with me He grew up seventh -day Adventist and we've been listening to this

02:15:08

J Mac series that he's done lately on the Sabbath and he keeps holding to the position that That the new covenant doesn't replace the old covenant and that he believes that all of the

02:15:23

Ten Commandments are still valid and That that includes obeying the Sabbath on the sixth day or excuse me the seventh day being

02:15:31

Saturday Yeah, so I've been trying to figure out how to you know, get him to understand about Jesus You know the his resurrection day was

02:15:41

Sunday he led by the example, you know for that day and then seven days later

02:15:46

You may have So you may have bigger questions that you first have to find out.

02:15:52

Okay, you need to find out how much he follows LNG white Because some seven -day Adventists are cultists.

02:15:58

They're in a cult and some are not Some just prefer to worship on on the seventh day and you could have legitimate believers

02:16:07

But if he is one who's following LNG white and things she said it becomes a problem like one of the things

02:16:15

You know LNG white even though and this is kind of an interesting irony, even though Atheists try to say that we get the term creationist or creationism from seven -day

02:16:28

Adventists LNG white believed in evolution because she said the reason we needed to be vegetarians is

02:16:36

Because eating meat brings in the animal is animal instincts of men and that's why they rape women

02:16:44

Yeah, we were not animals so it's totally different so If he's following after LNG white you have a whole different route that you're gonna go then just You know the

02:16:57

Sabbath, but the reality is the question either way to ask is does keeping the

02:17:02

Sabbath save you In other words, if you don't keep the Sabbath on the seventh day

02:17:09

Will you go to hell and if he says yes now you got a totally different issue Now you can go to Galatians and just deal with the fact that he is under the law

02:17:18

And he thinks the law is gonna save him rather than Christ So don't worry about arguing how to argue over the

02:17:24

Sabbath Go to Galatians and argue over the fact that the law can't save you and just just say hey

02:17:30

Let's do a Bible study through Galatians I was gonna say

02:17:38

I was gonna ask the exact same thing because if he believes the Ten Commandments are All the things that we need to follow does he believe all of the

02:17:47

Levitical law? Does he believe that you have to be circumcised does he believe that you have to Obey all the various things that the

02:17:54

Jews were called to because if he doesn't then even he doesn't believe that You know, he is he's taking well

02:18:02

I like the Ten Commandments because it has the thing about the Sabbath and That's the part we're supposed to remember and he's been told if you're not doing if you're not doing the

02:18:10

Sabbath You're not doing Saturday. You've sinned Well, if he's gonna say that then like Paul if you're gonna break one aspect of the law

02:18:18

You're gonna break all the laws So you better be under the whole Levitical law and you need to obey all of it completely otherwise you have no hope and so I Exactly what

02:18:28

Andrew said take him through Galatians and take him through the law and let him see what the law really says

02:18:38

Thank you, thank you and Michael says I don't care what day

02:18:44

I'll come So, so there you go and we get an apology to you

02:18:50

Melissa says Chris my apologies for my earlier comment. I didn't mean to embarrass you brother

02:18:56

You are such a good sport and it was all in good fun Melissa I would not have brought it up if it wasn't for the fact.

02:19:04

I knew he could handle it and And he would have brought it up. Anyway, no All my stuff

02:19:18

No, you didn't so you're going to see this you brought it up you brought it up I'm just gonna say

02:19:28

Now now I'm gonna get myself in trouble and people are gonna watch what they have in the background So I have a tendency to like to look at different things when people are on camera in pictures

02:19:38

I like to look at this is why I have this as yes, so if you

02:19:45

Yeah, if you Chris if you were to look over your left shoulder all the way over It looks like Batman is right there pointing at you

02:19:54

My wife's out in the living room watching this and she's gonna she'll back me up. That's hers Sure it is it is

02:20:03

Batman's not my not mine I'm sure Here you go, dear

02:20:10

This way hey, no, we appreciate it and Look guys. I appreciate you guys coming in and appreciate the questions tonight

02:20:18

We we I should mention that coming up soon. We're gonna be doing a episode.

02:20:25

It'll be on June 15th, which I think is to two weeks away

02:20:32

We'll be discussing the essential church a documentary coming out pretty soon. So I want you guys to check that out

02:20:39

And we're just gonna close out with our message that we are gonna start using to end with So until next week's remember to strive to make today an eternal day for the glory of God All the religious systems are based on a system of morality of good works.

02:20:54

What makes Christianity unique It is it is not a system of morality. It is about Jesus Christ Buddha is dead.

02:21:01

Muhammad is dead. Joseph Smith is dead. Mary Baker Eddie is dead Jesus Christ rose from the dead if Jesus Christ was not both fully man and fully

02:21:11

God There would be no payment of sin. This was the debate in the first century Jesus Christ was fully man.

02:21:18

It's important to note that he did not have a human father Therefore he did not inherit a sin nature

02:21:24

Jesus Christ not only had to be fully man But he also had to be without sin never breaking any part of God's law

02:21:30

If if Jesus was not a man, then people would have no payment of sins But Jesus Christ is also fully