November 21, 2016 Show with Ian Clary on “Pentecostal Outpourings: Revival and the Reformed Tradition (Part 2)”

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arns in your host of iron sharpens iron. Wishing you all a happy Monday on this 21st day of November 2016.

I'm delighted to have as a guest today for the very first time ever. Dr. Ian Clary. Research and teaching fellow for the Andrew Fuller Center for Baptist Studies teacher at Redeemer University College Heritage College and Seminary and Munster Bible College an associate pastor and elder at West Toronto Baptist Church.

We're going to be following up on a topic. We began last Wednesday with Bob smart Pentecostal outpourings revival and the reformed tradition. Both Dr. Smart and dr. Clary contributed to this book along with other authors and Today we are going to be picking up on dr. Clary's contribution to this book melting the ice of a long winter revival and Irish descent and.

It is my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to iron sharpens iron. Dr. Ian H Clary.

Thank you, hey, it's my pleasure to have you on the program and.

I'm very eagerly looking forward to getting into this subject at hand. But before we do that, I want to announce our email address. If anybody would like to join us on the air with questions, it's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Please give us your first name your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA and. You may remain anonymous if it makes you feel more comfortable because of something you're asking that involves a personal and private matter.

Since we do have a pastor as a guest but other than that, we would urge you to please at least identify yourself by Name city state and country and that's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Before I even get into the subject at hand of Pentecostal outpourings revival and the reform tradition I'd like to know something about your own personal background.

How you came to Faith in Jesus Christ. What the religious upbringing if any that you had.

Was and etc. If you could. Yeah. I grew up in Windsor, Ontario. Part of me is in Windsor and a reading Bible stories. I'll praise God for that.

Well, when did you realize that God was giving you a call to become a pastor?

Needed to be pursued and for all of those reasons and one of the professors that came I'll tell you by the time I got through the end of that course I was absolutely enamored with and just from that and it was very difficult time and just pursued my education with really Lordwood would lead academic life and.

Well, tell us something about.

The West Toronto Baptist Church where you are now the associate pastor.

Yeah, weren't a lot of really handful of good churches and a number of good leaders and I was studying and working at Toronto Baptist Seminary. And a truncated in size. Knew that they wanted a younger man to come in with a young family and I had gone to Toronto Baptist Seminary together and when he graduated he moved back to.

We just had a it's been amazing and and I I've been and. Another friend asked to kind of give it one last and I just realized through a period of searching out what church that might be with West Toronto and.

And that was just part of a real boost for this church. Praise God for that. Yes the church that I left.

When I moved to Pennsylvania Grace Reform Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York. That was the result of a merge also back in 1995 Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville, Long Island, which was a reformed Baptist Church.

That was busting through the walls because we were outgrowing the size of the facility that we had. There was a church about 25 minutes away first Baptist Church of Merrick, Long Island and That pastor had come to the doctrines of Sovereign Grace, but he had the opposite problem.

He had a Building that could hold close to 500 people. It only had about 20 people attending the church. So we the pastors of both churches Got together and said why don't we merge and that's exactly what we did and we became Grace Reform Baptist Church of Long Island and that was a church that I Had been at since my conversion to Christ this going back to the Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville Congregation in the mid -1980s and just left there for the first time Four years ago when I moved to Carlisle, Pennsylvania so I know something about the blessings of mergers and and I want to make sure that I give the audience the website for West Toronto Baptist Church if anybody is either Listening who lives in Toronto and is looking for a church home or if you're visiting Toronto.

I know many People all over the United States and other parts of the world visit Toronto for various reasons whether for vacation or business but that website is WTBC for West Toronto Baptist Church WTBC.

Actually, it's WTB church is a better way of saying it WTB for West Toronto Baptist and then church .com.

And.

I hope that you do get eventually some visitors as a result. I also want to give Ian's personal website. It's in Hugh Clary and he spells Ian I a n. And Hugh is H UGH Clary Clary .wordpress .com. That's I a n H UGH Clary .wordpress .com.

Andrew Fuller, Calvinistic Baptist History, and the Meaning of Hyper-Calvinism

Well now we come to the book that we have started addressing last Wednesday with Bob smart Pentecostal outpourings Revival in the reformed tradition and as I did with Bob perhaps you could clarify the title because people might wrongly think.

By from that title that you are addressing in this book specifically the movement known as Pentecostalism Pentecostalism or the the Pentecostal denominations like the Assembly of God the Church of God, etc.

But that is not the case. You're referring to the actual event in the scripture that is being used as an adjective, correct?

Yes, and I've interviewed in the past a number of these authors on different on different subjects. Michael Hagen.

Has been a guest on this program several times and I have interviewed Bob smart obviously last week. I have interviewed Tom Nettles a number of times. Oh good, particularly regarding things involving Calvinistic Baptists of history obviously and dr. Joel Beeky has been on the program many times.

Yeah, I go back a long time with dr. Beeky. I was the first person to get him seriously. Involved in Attempting to launch a radio ministry because the old denomination that he belonged to didn't believe in using radio.

Yes, the Netherlands reformed denomination. And one of the reasons he left that denomination but along with other Members of that group and formed the heritage Netherlands reformed right denomination, which is more commonly known today is just the head the heritage reformed church.

But.

Quite an impressive group of Co-authors and I hope to interview all of them eventually. Amen. Yeah, amen and I can say as a reformed Baptist That one of the things that I am very impressed by dr. Beeky Over is the fact that even though he is a Pato Baptist He has a very strong belief that children are a mission field.

They're not to be Taken for granted as if they are regenerate born-again individuals just because they are the children of Christian parents and That's one of the things that I really am impressed about him and he's one of the finest preachers I've ever heard.

In fact, he He came out back in the 90s to grace reform Baptist Church at my invitation to speak at a Bible conference that we held there and Just really been enjoying His ministry for many years. In fact, I was very surprised pleasantly surprised one day when I worked for WMCA radio 570 a .m. In New York, which is one of the Affiliates of the largest Christian network radio network in the world Salem Communications.

I remember being surprised one day when I was listening to the radio and I tuned on during the typical slot for Focus on the family which at the time was being hosted by dr. James Dobson and I'm hearing dr. Beeky Preaching and I was like startled pleasantly startled.

I was like, I don't understand this. The dr. Beeky somehow take over the focus on the family slot or something and then at the end of the program James Dobson much to my surprise said and that was dr. Joel Beeky.

Why. My wife's very favorite preacher.

Yes, I've also gotten to really enjoy.

Dr. David Murray who was on the faculty at Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary and actually have developed a friendship with him and.

He.

Really reached out to me in a very deeply meaningful way after my wife went home to the Lord back in 2011 and I just really cherish Knowing him and it's just good to see that the Lord is making These folks more well-known globally and making use of them.

In.

Far-reaching areas. And we are going to go to our first break right now. If you would like to join us on the air with a question for Ian Clary, it could be a general question on Reformed theology about his own testimony or church, but it could also primarily Be about the book we are discussing Pentecostal outpourings revival and the reformed tradition and even more specifically on.

The.

Chapter that Dr. Clary contributed to the book That's melting the ice of a long winter revival and Irish descent. And we're to be discussing that when we return from the break. Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris.

Arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We will be right back with dr. Ian H Clary right after these messages from our sponsors. So don't go away. Chris Arnzen here and I can't wait to head down to Atlanta, Georgia.

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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God or am I trying to please? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi. I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Orrins, and if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours is dr Ian H Clary research and teaching fellow for the Andrew Fuller Center for Baptist Studies teacher at Redeemer University College Heritage College and Seminary and Munster Bible College an Associate pastor and elder at West Toronto Baptist Church.

We're going to be addressing today Part two of a theme we began last Wednesday with Bob smart Pentecostal outpourings revival and the reform tradition which is a book published by Reformation Heritage Books and Our guest today.

Dr. Ian H. Clary is one of the editors and contributing authors of The book and if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. And you know before I go on to the subject at hand I would like to know a little bit about the Andrew Fuller Center for Baptist Studies.

And when Dr. Hagen another five-volume works out there. But Andrew Fuller Center is involved under the general advisory for my personal involvement with the church history and myself. I'm working with Dr. Hagen on Fuller's letters, Fuller's gospel audience.

That the Yale edition has had or yes, I remember the late. Dr. John Gerstner being very very.

Excited about that Yale edition and I believe he lent his Accolades to it when it came out.

But.

Not to derail the conversation on the from the intended subject but Andrew Fuller is a bit of a controversial figure within Calvinistic Baptist history as John Gill Has been sometimes labeled as a hyper Calvinist.

Although our Mutual friend. Dr. Tom Nettles disagrees with that. He believes that That Gill is undeservedly receiving that description. Andrew Fuller sometimes is categorized as a hypo Calvinist kind of falling beneath the standard of what would historically be considered Calvinism, what's your opinion on that?

Yeah, it's adopted. What is. Sometimes I'd mentioned that he kinds of things so. But I would I would and know the scholarship of the Celtic. Correct is we're seeing a greater diversity. I can see how Andrew Fuller.

I think that that held davenant and.

The website for the Andrew Fuller Center for Baptist Studies is Andrew Fuller Center org Andrew Fuller Center org. And just for the benefit of our listeners. Who are either not? Reformed or Young. In the reformed faith the term hyper Calvinism does not refer to somebody who?

Adheres to the five points of Calvinism as many people wrongly use that historic label. This is really in regard to a departure not only from Historic Calvinism, but the Bible in regard to how God uses human beings as a means.

To bring about the salvation of sinners, isn't that really in a nutshell? What hyper Calvinism would involve.

Yeah, I'll have to look that up. Really great. Well, I'll have to interview dr. Haken on that and.

Well, let's get to your chapter in the book. We are discussing today Pentecostal outpourings revival in the reformed tradition. Your specific chapter is melting the ice of a long winter revival and Irish descent if you could.

Explain what period of church history you are describing. Jonathan Edwards Revivalism later development. So I think you see it right in Charles Finney.

I think that Jerry Johnson rightly described Charles Finney as a monergist, but not the good kind. He's a monergist in that. He believed that it was only man that was involved in his regeneration.

Is that the one that involved Jeremiah lamp fear in New York City? Yeah, I'm looking at six mile water did.

Especially the first revival. Did that include? Roman Catholics coming in considerable numbers to the true faith of the scriptures. Or was it primarily Dead Protestant churches that were being revived there.

Sounds like the Boycott that was being held against James White for many years by Roman Catholics. But I'm very happy to announce that Catholic answers is finally permitting one of their.

Their.

Colleagues there to debate James in January January 18th the day before the g3 conference begins in Atlanta, Georgia.

And.

Trent Horne Who is a Roman Catholic apologist with Catholic answers has agreed to debate? Dr. White on whether or not a Christian a true born-again Regenerate Christian can lose his or her salvation.

So that's that's actually an issue that You'll have ironically many So-called Protestants siding with the Roman Catholics on that issue but tell us about The genesis of the the first.

Irish revival that you were speaking of. He's the one who is largely credited in the gospel. But he wasn't and so other men coming had gone off. After all we know about him.

The Nature of Revival and the Irish Dissenters

Yeah, well we have to go to our second break now if you'd like to join us on the air. We do have a few people waiting to have their questions asked and answered and I thank you for your patience. But if you'd like to join them with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

At chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Please include your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside of the USA. We look forward to hearing from you and we'll be back right after these messages with dr. Ian H Clary so don't go away.

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I.

Think I think that's what it's called. Hoping that you can join Chris and me at the g3 conference in Atlanta my new hometown. It is going to be a bang-up conference called the g3 conference celebrating the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation with Paul Washer Steve Lawson da Carson Vodie Bacom Conrad and Bayway Phil Johnson James White and a bunch of other people.

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7 1 7 6 9 7 1981. Or visit solid rock remodeling. That's solid rock remodeling calm solid rock remodeling bringing new life to your home. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen if you just tuned us in today.

Our guest today is dr Ian H Clary and we are discussing a book he contributed to Pentecostal outpourings revival in the reformed tradition a subject which we began last Wednesday with another Co-author and editor of this book dr. Robert smart and We are today speaking specifically on Melting the ice of a long winter revival and Irish descent the chapter that our guest today.

Dr. Ian H Clary Contributed to the book. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question. Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. And we do have a listener CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York.

Who asked. I have become very fond of? Many of the preachers I have heard on sermon audio and elsewhere from within the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster and its sister organization or daughter organization the Free Presbyterian Church of North America.

Would you consider the genesis of this denomination in Northern Ireland a more modern Result of a smaller revival of sorts.

Well, I can say that.

From the men that I have grown to. Know for instance John Greer who is was for a while right here in Pennsylvania at the Malvern Free Presbyterian Church. He is now returned to Ulster and I know that he is really a powerful powerful preacher of the doctrines of grace a fully committed Calvinist and all of the Men within that denomination I have met are fully committed Calvinists.

The.

The area that I depart with them is they They adhere to different levels of King James. Exclusivism, right? I've never met one that had a bizarre or crazy level of it like some folks that I have met but But even our friend dr. Joel Beakey His denomination only uses the King James from their pulpits, but he would not call a heretic somebody that That this did not use that translation.

But I I really have a lot of wonderful things to say about that denomination but I'm not enough of an historical expert to Identify it with a revival, but it seems to be definitely drawing people in that area, which is known for apostasy and liberalism and even Catholicism to a a genuine understanding of the gospel and aid an abandonment of Heretical neo-evangelicalism.

And he's part of a larger and really remarkable work. Well if it is the same Greer family to ease by the way.

Definitely tell Peter to say hello to John for me and I'd love to get John on this program at some point in the near future and well, I'll pick up where we left off there as far as the the history of this Irish descent and.

And.

Specifically remind us what specifically why specifically you're using the term dissent.

But he wanted to do Lord wanted to through that person. So I guess to your by the way.

I forgot I think I forgot to mention to CJ that you have won a copy of the book today CJ so make sure you give us your full mailing address so that you can receive a copy of Pentecostal outpourings revival and the reformed tradition.

Compliments of the publishers publishers reformation heritage books and it will be mailed to you by our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV BBS calm CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible book service calm and we thank Todd and Patty Jennings at CV BBS calm for their faithful support of iron sharpens iron.

They mail out all of our Winners in our listening audience their free Bibles books DVDs CDs or whatever else they're winning by submitting questions to our guests. And they do so practically on a daily basis with some exception and We thank them for that.

We also again, of course, thank the publishers Reformation heritage books for providing these free books by our guest and their website is heritage books org. I'll make sure I mention that before we run out of time and I forget about it Heritage books org.

You're gonna see a very long list of phenomenal Books not only that they publish but that other reformed Publishers have brought into print and I think you'll be very impressed with that ministry and that was founded by a name We keep mentioning during this interview.

Dr. Joel Beeky of Puritan reformed theological seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan. We have Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania. Who wants to know I have heard the word revival? Misused very often especially amongst Charismatic and Pentecostal groups and even amongst some fundamentalist Baptist groups.

But if you could just give some basic elements of what you believe is an actual revival.

Sure. Well that that goes back to our also apostasy would be a good label. Out of that are things like kind of link back revival and you know in our in our understanding of I think that.

Now would you say that that means aspect would be a hallmark of the Calvinistic Methodist revival in Wales and other places.

Yeah, I mean we tied to that through the content of it and I wasn't always charitable. Rivals are not lasting. Yes, but of course.

You would have to admit that even genuine Revivals which will probably have more long-lasting effects than what Phinney was involved in still Have historically seemingly died out like the very congregation Where Jonathan Edwards was a pastor is now a pro-homosexual Congregationalist Congregation and you know, there's some been some horrible things that have happened in areas of the World and of this country.

When I say this country, I'm obviously talking about the United States. Since you're in North America may be a better way of putting it but New England which was Obviously a the place most well known for puritanism in the 18th and 17th centuries is now as even secular Individuals will be able to tell you every election cycle.

Those are the one of the most liberal areas and the face of the United States, so. What. And specifically in reference to the Irish revivals What became of them? Would you say that there? Is still a strong remnant of that revival that has maintained Throughout the the centuries or has it largely just fizzled away.

Well, I went after him. Because they're you know, the the bathroom Baptist moved and so you you can see In each of those but I would say that that's that's a it's just exciting praise God.

But by the way, how on earth did a college in the Republic of Ireland have the name Munster?

Huh?

Yes, okay. Anybody who's I. And so the Munster Bible College is her time.

Yeah, speaking of the connection with Michael Hagen in Ireland. I am going to God willing be interviewing. Dr. Hagen in March of 2017 on Patrick of Ireland his life and impact. We have BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania who wants to know are the Baptists in the Republic of Ireland that you speak of.

Using the term Protestant to label themselves. I was wondering if that was an unnecessary.

Stumbling block being in the heart of Roman Catholic Ireland so far. To teach and. So in terms of you know, and so that was a that was an interesting experience. Connotations. They said that you know, they view the world through God to some way towards many of them.

They're one of all come together and have one big service. Where they you know, they're they're in a large down from the north to do. And I met this man Talking to him about while the miles away get on his bike.

Those two churches would then plant others. As I said, I could go on and on here and we're supposed to be talking.

Revival, Dissent, and the Irish Baptist Context

Well, I want to thank BB and the others who wrote in questions you all have won a copy of the book of Pentecostal outpourings and Just keep your eye open from for a package from Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CVB BS comm and that should be coming in the mail to you within a week or so when we thank you very much for Participating in today's program.

We're going to our final station break. So there'll be about 25 minutes more Time to discuss this fascinating subject with dr E and H Clary if you'd like to join us on the air as well with a question.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages with dr E and H Clary, so don't go away. Chris Arnzen here and I can't wait to head down to Atlanta, Georgia.

And here's my friend. Dr. James White to tell you why hi.

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega ministries. I hope you join me at the g3 conference hosted by pastor Josh Bice and Praise Mill Baptist Church at the Georgia International Convention Center in Atlanta January 19th through the 21st in celebration of the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation.

I'll be joined by Paul Washer Steve Lawson da Carson Vody Balcom Conrad and Bayway Phil Johnson Rosaria Butterfield Todd Friel and a host of other speakers who are dedicated to the pillars of what g3 stands for gospel grace and glory.

For more details go to g3 conference .com. That's g3 conference .com.

Thanks, James. Make sure you greet me at the iron sharpens iron exhibit booth while you're there.

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